The Grey NATO – 275 – Catching Up With Wesley Smith of Standard H

Published on Thu, 07 Mar 2024 06:00:00 -0500

Synopsis

This episode features an interview with Wesley Smith, founder of the lifestyle apparel brand and podcast Standard H. Wesley discusses the origins of Standard H, including how he got into fashion and entrepreneurship. He shares details on the design process behind the brand's signature t-shirts, incorporating automotive and California inspirations. Wesley also talks about his passion for watches, including his first luxury watch love (an IWC Portofino) and the watches in his current rotation. Additionally, he gives advice for aspiring entrepreneurs looking to start their own apparel brand. Towards the end, Wesley unveils some exciting news about a new product collaboration with the retailer Revolve.

Transcript

Speaker
James Stacey Hello and welcome to another episode of the Graynado. It's a loose discussion of travel, adventure, diving, driving gear, and most certainly watches. This is episode 275 and it's proudly brought to you by the always growing TGN supporter crew. We thank you all so much for your continued support and if you're listening to the show and would like to support it, please visit thegraynado.com for more details. My name is James Stacy and I'm joined as ever by my friend and co-host Jason Heaton. Hey Jason, how are we doing?
Jason Heaton I'm doing great. Yeah, I'm still kind of buzzing from the response to last week's episode actually.
James Stacey It was kind of off the charts. It's been great. The conversations are still going on slide. No, I know. I really thought that wasn't wasn't going to work. Like I thought it would hit a few people and upset a few others, but mostly people just happy to chit chat and be part of the convo. And yeah, we had a good time. But like I said, we're still digging into some of the topics on on slack. So it's been a fun weekend for for the slack for sure. We're recording this on a Monday because you are headed to England tomorrow.
Jason Heaton Yeah, the trip sort of came up on short notice, I guess I did hint at it last week, but it was still up in the air. And now, um, now it's for sure. I leave tomorrow, just flying over to, to England, uh, for a few days in Henley with Braymont, um, get kind of a sneak peek at what they're up to and kind of, uh, visit with, uh, Davide, the recently installed CEO there. Um, I'm going to be going flying with Nick English, which, uh, I'm super excited about. And, uh, and then, yeah, lo and behold, I will be in town for Uh, what is called the British watchmakers day show on Saturday. Uh, it looks to me like, uh, kind of public tickets are sold out for that. I'm, I'm going as kind of a member of the press, so to speak. Um, so if you happen to be at that show, look out for, for me, tall American guy with, uh, hopefully a familiar voice for, for those that listen to the podcast. Uh, I'll just be kind of wandering around. I don't have a specific agenda and I'm not planning a meetup or anything like that. I'll probably still be. burning off a little bit of jet lag or whatever, but I'm really looking forward to it. So should be should be a great time. Yeah. You've got a week off next week.
James Stacey Yeah, I'm taking next week off for March break with the fam. Don't worry. There will be an episode next week. We're still going to do an episode because I didn't want it. I felt bad taking March break off and the week for watches and wonders. So I kind of like there's no way for me to do an episode, especially with you in Geneva even harder to coordinate. Yeah, how that would work out. I mean, we'll get to see each other and that's going to be great and the rest of it. But we are going to take off the week of April 8th, which is Watches and Wonders. There'll be at least one daily podcast from Hodinkee, so you won't be without watch content that week. I promise you'll be okay. We'll do, as we have, I mean, it was the first episode of TGN was essentially a recap from one of the big shows. We will do a big recap of everything we liked from Watches and Wonders, from Time to Watches, from everything going on that week. But that's going to come out the week after the show. So whatever that would be, the 18th or 19th of April, something like that. I'm just guessing.
Jason Heaton All luxed out part six or seven.
James Stacey Exactly. Yeah, I guess that's what we should try. I should go back and count that out. We should. But yeah, something like all luxed out. So the other thing is, while we will have a standard episode next week, I don't mind recording one while I'm away. We won't have time with today's schedule to get to the Q&A. So the Q&A will come out the third week of March. So just keep in touch. I promise it won't be any later than that. I've been doing pretty well so far this year, keeping on top of the Q&A, so we'll keep that going. But that's basically all I've got going on. I'm just trying to get a few things done so that, you know, Friday afternoon I can pick my girls up from school and we can jump in the car and head down to Pennsylvania to hang out with some family. We're going to do a little hangout in New Hope at Triumph Brewery. We're still working out the details, so I believe it's about two o'clock. If you need that information, feel free to either drop me an email, thegrenadoatgmail.com, as we're managing the sort of numbers and what Triumph Brewing's willing. And that way at least gives me also like if the plan changes, we'll be communicating that on Slack, but obviously not necessarily everybody listening is on the Slack. So send me an email if you're keen on being part of that. And that way I can at least keep the communications up to date as we sort out some of the details about numbers and that sort of thing. That's about all I've got going on. You want to jump into wrist check?
Jason Heaton Yeah, let's do it. I guess fittingly for my upcoming trip, I've strapped on my Bremont, the Supermarine 2000, which is a watch that kind of goes in phases for me. I'll go for long periods without wearing it because it's a chunk. I mean, it's a big heavy watch and I actually have it on the bracelet today, which I don't often, but it definitely has a presence to it. Totally. I thought it'd be a fitting choice. It's kind of one, actually, actually one of my oldest, I shouldn't say oldest watches. I have a lot of old watches, but, um, the ones that I've had the longest, uh, I got it the, the year that they came out. In fact, this is actually prototype number three that, that Bramont sent to me. I had done, Ghoshani and I were in the Bahamas and they sent it to me and asked if I could put together some underwater video footage, which we weren't terribly experienced with, but managed to get a few minutes of clips and then sent it over to them and they used it for kind of a launch event. So, um, it has some meaning to it, a significant watch, and I still love the look of these first generation, uh, supermarines. So that's what I'm wearing and will be wearing most of the week.
James Stacey That's a nice one. Yeah. Good pick for sure. A fitting option for that. And, uh, yeah, for me, I went basic James today. It's been about a year. I actually have to go back and double check the date. Cause it might be a year today as we're recording, but I've had the Pelagos 39. And, uh, just love it. Still love it a lot. Still wear it all the time. Probably my, you know, kind of my number one these days as far as time on wrist, but that's what I've got on. And it's not, I can't say that that's a big surprise for anyone or that there's much more backstory than that. It's one I've been wearing a ton the last year. So.
Jason Heaton Pelagos has kind of become, become a default choice for, for both of us. I think, uh, odds are, if you see me anywhere, I'm probably wearing my, my FXD unless, uh, I have a specific, uh, use case like I do this week. So yeah, good, good pick.
James Stacey Well, look, let's get into the main topic. Today we have a very special guest on the show. We're continuing kind of our extended run of fun interviews with one today with Wesley Smith of Standard H. So quite some time ago for episode 203, we recorded at Windup a series of discussions and then kind of chopped them up into a couple episodes. So in episode 203, we had a few minutes with Wesley and we had a few minutes with our buddy Mike Pearson. And this is kind of an extended version or a regrouping of that original conversation with Wesley back in August, or I guess we ran the episode in August. It would have been July 2022. So it's been about a year and a half. It's always a treat to have Wesley on. For those of you who don't know, Wesley is the founder of Standard H, which is a lifestyle apparel brand and podcast about sort of starting businesses, entrepreneurship, all the stuff that Wesley's into. That includes watches and cars and golf and surfing and all sorts of very TGN sort of topics. Wesley's a great guy. He's become a buddy of ours over the last couple of years. Jason and I are like massive fans of his clothing, the t-shirts, the sweatshirts, all of it, all really good, all stuff I really rely on like day in, day out as some of my favorite stuff. So when Wesley had a little bit of an announcement, which we'll get to later in the chat, but he, you know, said he was available to, to come on. And I figured it'd be nice to kind of, like I said, kind of close the loop with the shortened conversation we had. uh, you know, back in 2022, uh, with kind of a refresher for 2024. So without any further delay, here's Wesley Smith of Standard H on TGN. All right, Wesley Smith, what a treat to have you back on the show. It's been quite a long time, uh, since we had you on and, and really the, the first time that you were on was, was some time ago. And also it was kind of an abbreviated sort of chat because it was during windup. So here's an official welcome to a full episode. of TGN, Wesley Smith of Standard H. What a treat.
Wesley Smith Yeah, thanks so much guys for having me. It really means a lot and certainly don't take it for granted. Really appreciate you guys support and friendship, you know, that's built over the years and it's been, it's awesome to be here.
Jason Heaton Well, you're our favorite purveyor of cotton, wonderful cotton shirts.
Wesley Smith We often do. Yeah. Well, big, big prayer hands.
James Stacey I live in a lot of your clothing. We've been buddies for a while and sort of supported each other, but I think it's fun to get a chance to go a little bit deeper into Standard H. And there's no question that there's people listening now that weren't following TGN when you were on for Windup a couple of years ago. So I think that's probably the smart place to start is, why don't you give people a little bit of a background? Obviously, Standard H is a clothing brand and sort of a lifestyle consideration, a thoughtfulness consideration, and then on top of that, a pretty solid interview-based podcast. So, I mean, I guess that's sort of the scope, but why don't you give people kind of how you got to it and that sort of thing, and then we can get into how it's going.
Wesley Smith I went to boarding school my last two years of high school, and that really got me sort of the fashion bug because it wasn't a uniform-based school. It was a dress code-based school. So what that meant was coat and tie to class, but not everybody wore the same thing. So, and I don't mean boarding school as like this, I grew up like this really rich kid, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. It was a, it was an opportunity that my grandparents afforded me. Um, at first I was like, I thought my parents were trying to get rid of me and shipping you off to, but then I saw dead poet society and I was like, Oh man, I'm in like that camaraderie. And, and, you know, and it was something different. And I grew up in Raleigh, North Carolina. And, um, I just kind of wanted to experience something different and sort of got bit by the fashion bug by way of sort of the Brooks brothers catalog being sent to my dorm room, you know, cause it was kind of coat and ties and that, that sort of thing. Um, and where was the school? It was in Asheville, North Carolina, which I had cool. Like I think if I were to ever, yeah, exactly. If I were to ever move back to North Carolina, it'd probably be Ashley, honestly.
James Stacey I only hear good things. And yeah, Jason, Jason Gashani went down there almost two years ago, Jason, maybe not quite, and had a great time.
Wesley Smith Yeah. I loved hearing that episode, Jason. Like that was, I was, I was, I was there with you in spirit. I was so excited for you. Yeah. That's kind of what got me into fashion. And then when I went to college, I went to NC state. I worked, you know, mall stores, you know, Banana Republic, J.Crew, that kind of thing.
James Stacey Yeah, sure.
Wesley Smith And then got into more of like multi-brand boutiques and management and things like that, that were like locally privately owned boutiques that carried like diesel and French connection. And I'm aging myself, obviously, because those were the hot brands in 2003, again, just kind of expanded the scope of sort of that contemporary market. And then, you know actually in college, I took an entrepreneurship class and I always wanted to start my own apparel brand. So that was sort of my business plan. which trust me, if, if you could like change your degree, like one degree, but then cast out 15 years, I'm very far away from where that business plan. Sure. I knew I wanted to work in fashion and was like, all right, it's either New York or LA. And I was like, well, I can surf and play golf year round in LA. Can't really do that in New York city. So not easily anyway. And so that's kind of how I landed in LA in 2007. And, um, worked for a brand called James Purse for nearly five years, opened stores for him, launched a new brand for him. Then they transferred me to San Diego and that's kind of how I ended up here. And then, um, just as a side hustle launched a hat and, um, it's the hat I'm wearing actually is black with a white logo, kind of background of the four speed. I was a manager for Gucci at the time. I was one of the managers at the Fashion Valley Boutique here in San Diego. It's basically this culmination of 20 plus years of working retail sales management. And then all of my interests, including fashion, surfing, cars, watches, watches was an interesting one, which which I can get to. But yeah, please. Yeah, I was I was on a lunch break at Gucci and knew I wanted to launch sort of a casual brand. And I was actually googling a Volkswagen Vanagon. And the design in mind was to gut the back of it and make it a mobile store. And in that research, found out that they shifted on a four-speed. And I was like, huh, these shift on a standard H. And then, of course, was like, wait, standard H is kind of cool. Because I knew I didn't want to name it Wesley Smith. You know what I mean? So immediate Google search for the URL, is standard H available? And that sort of thing and the LLC and, and all that. And, um, I found out that standard H.com is for standard hydrogen corporation. Uh, so that's why my URL has a, has a hyphen in it. Um, they will not respond to my emails. So, but, but that's kind of how it started. And I just, for whatever reason, when I saw that photo on Google images of like the transmission, the overhead of like the, the transfer case and like everything, it was like this top down image. And it showed the gear shift knob. I saw my logo instead of seeing the gear shift. It was like the numbers vanished. The S was there. It was just, I don't know. It was like an epiphany type of situation. And then I lived with a graphic designer at the time and he put it into illustrator and vectorized it for me. And it's, it's been the same ever since.
Jason Heaton It's such a, it's such an elegantly sort of simple logo that, that most people understand. And, it appeals kind of across the board. Like it can be seen as sort of this abstract shape, but also to car guys, you know, it's, it obviously resonates, which is really cool.
Wesley Smith Yeah. And I'm, I've probably said ad nauseum on my podcast, like I'm just a big fan of soliciting the double take and or using kind of a double entendre if, if we're talking words, that's been something that's always appealed to me. And I think to your point, Jason, like the simplicity of it is, let's just not overthink it. Let it don't make it also less is more for me. I'm a big fan of like just modern aesthetic and usually kind of cleaner lines and minimalism. I know my room that I'm in now is the least minimal room in my house for sure. My wife calls it a museum. Um, but uh, it's, yeah, the rest of the house is, is far more minimal.
Jason Heaton I'm just curious about the, the kind of when you were hatching the idea for, for an apparel brand, You know, when you describe your background with Brooks brothers and kind of suit and tie at school, and then working for Gucci and fashion brands in LA, the vibe I get from the standard H line is decidedly more. And even when I see you regularly, you've got a ball cap on, you know, we have these lovely sweatshirts. The target Florio jacket, of course, is a bit of an outlier in terms of kind of what you had done prior to that. And I'm like, it has a decidedly sort of casual. And I, what I would see as a very. kind of California vibe to it as opposed to what you described your background as. And was that kind of the idea from the beginning was to kind of go the direction you went or?
Wesley Smith Well, a lot of that is just based on how people dress today. I feel like far fewer people are wearing a shirt and tie, you know, unless perhaps you're a lawyer or maybe an agent in LA. I'm not even sure if they're wearing suits anymore, but honestly it's just, I wanted to create a brand of things that people would actually wear. right? And enjoy and be able to wear commonly, you know?
James Stacey Yeah. So I'm curious at this point in the game, we're not, we can fast forward to something loosely modern today or in the last few years, you go to a dinner party, maybe you go out with, with, uh, with some friends and you meet some new people. How do you explain standard age? What's, what's the, the two or three sentences that you give folks? Uh, you know, I have, I have two versions of this for TG and I have one, which is kind of like, if I don't want to talk about it and explain what the, you know, if I'm like, this isn't their zone, right? And other times I have a different pitch and maybe you're the same way. Because sometimes I get to one of these events and I'm just like, I can't feel like I'm pitching myself to these people.
Wesley Smith Yeah. You know, the self promotion thing is a tricky one for, I think, you, James and Jason and myself, really. Typically what I would say, it's an automotive inspired line of apparel for watch collectors. That's literally what it's distilled down to now. Which is so niche. Yeah, I mean, it's a niche within a niche. And yeah, if you're the right guy, you're hooked. But if you're the wrong guy, you're not wrong, but just maybe not interested, which is fine. But that's also the beauty of doing something simple like I'm doing is that you don't have to be into cars to appreciate a nice t-shirt. You don't have to be a watch collector to appreciate a nice T-shirt. Everyone needs a T-shirt. Yeah, exactly. So... Nobody needs a nice watch. Right. I mean, we all want them, but... Yeah, yeah, exactly. That's sort of the elevator pitch that I give. And really, the watch thing came just as a byproduct of my podcast, which I guess dovetails nicely into how that started.
James Stacey Yeah, I was just about to get there. Did you plan from the ground up as a podcast? Did you love podcasts before you started the process? How did you get into that phase?
Wesley Smith naturally as somebody who's starting a business in 2015 for the first time, Tim Ferriss is on your radar, right? So like I was, I was listening to, to nearly every episode of Tim. Um, and I read four hour work week. That was the other thing after hearing his podcast, which was a great book to read. So I really just kind of, thought about the lack of marketing budget that I had and thought about, OK, well, I have some time, you know, but I don't have a ton of money to do this because all of my money is going at product. Right. And at the time, I was only doing logo hats and logo T-shirts, which was never the goal. The goal was doing kind of what I'm doing now, which is kind of full blown cut. And so my silhouette, my fabric, my color, or like Jason alluded to, the Targa Florio jacket, which is completely you know, cut and sew, as we call it in the industry, you know, not buying a blank and, you know, in, in launching the podcast, I was thinking, well, how could I learn as a first time business owner? And then with zero interest in gatekeeping, how can I share this? Right. And then I was obviously familiar with podcasts. So I was like, why don't I do that? And it seems like a great community building exercise. And if it brings attention to the apparel, great. And if it doesn't, it's entertainment for like-minded people. Um, I've just always been somewhat of a all ships rise mentality. And obviously with, with COVID having hit four years ago, almost literally to the day here, um, it just kind of grew into something different just because of the types of people I was surrounding with. I couldn't leave my house, you know? So obviously it was like, how do I get people on? I'd learned what zoom was for the first time. So it's just all these like, yeah, yeah. And that's just kind of how it started.
Jason Heaton I was going to ask how you choose your guests and how you approach them about being on the podcast. Um, and now they, cause I, you know, when we, when we approach guests to, for our interviews, for those that are unfamiliar with what TGN is all about, going back to James's earlier question about how do you describe TGN succinctly to a prospective guests that maybe is unfamiliar with what we do. It, it can be a little tricky. What's your strategy or how do you do that?
Wesley Smith Yeah. You know, um, it, how do I do it? It's usually a cold call of some sort, you know, via Instagram direct messenger or, or like now I'm at the place where like some people can introduce me to others now that I've done a number of episodes. Um, so sometimes that happens, uh, at events. Sometimes I'll meet people. Um, I'll tell you what I struggle with is that's when people pitch themselves to be on my show and it's just kind of like, well, I mean, I, I'm sure you're a great person, but I don't know anything about you. I don't, you know, it'll come across far more business, like an interview style. I like more of the coffee shop. You're at a bar drinking a beer, like, you know, one of those two vibes of a conversation where it's super casual, but yes, you can get into the nitty gritty. So I really just approach the people that I respect and enjoy their content usually and or whatever they're producing or, you know, so it, it starts with my own interests. Selfishly, as you both know, I, I, I try at least to ask questions that nobody else asks in the sense that you, Jason, or you, James, you've been on a litany of podcasts and or interviews and what have I listened to, but I'm still curious about, about you. You know what I mean? Like, so Jason, you and I talked cars, I remember I got messages after our episode and people were like, well, you got Jason to open up about stuff he's never talked about on TGN. And I was like, well, I mean, it's no disrespect to TGN, but we're a different show to be fair.
Jason Heaton You know? So yeah. Who's your dream guest? Do you have a, do you have a dream guest?
Wesley Smith You know, I have a couple, I mean, Max Booster was a big one. Um, he, he was, you know, just from a business perspective and background perspective. Uh, I loved his episode. I would love to get Wilhelm Schmidt on, Um, he's a big car guy. Obviously he's into watches.
James Stacey Uh, I am for those on, for those unsure that's CEO of a long guns on, uh, longstanding at this point.
Wesley Smith Yeah. And ALS is like my, my grail. Yeah. I mean, name it. Um, Chris Granger, another one, you know, for similar reasons, I'm a huge IWC guy. He's a big car guy. They're involved in formula one. He's an architect by trade. I love architecture. I took some architecture in college. Those are probably, you know, to keep it short, James, those are probably the two.
James Stacey Yeah, I mean, and Chris Granger, again, for people who don't keep track of their CEOs, is the CEO of IWC. I think both of those guys, I mean, I've interviewed Wilhelm and he's just Uh, just a really warm guy. Who's happy to talk about a lot of different things. He's very, very measured when it comes to talking about long, of course, the brand that doesn't move quickly, doesn't need to, um, all those sorts of things, but definitely has a wealth of information when it comes to things like cars and taste in, in a variety of things. I think he'd be a great guest for the show for sure.
Wesley Smith Well, and Ben climber, he's another one I would, I would die to have been on, you know, um, early days I interviewed Henry as you may or may not recall. Um,
James Stacey I think he was like, yeah, that was some time ago.
Wesley Smith Oh, it was like right when the pod started. Uh, I think he was like one of the first 10 guests or something. But one of the reasons I approached Henry full disclosure rather than Ben is I didn't think I could get Ben. Like I didn't think Ben would be interested, you know, and, and maybe he's not still. So, uh, we'll see.
James Stacey I think he does more media than he did for a certain number of years, so I'm obviously more than happy to make that connection. That's an easy ask to make, but I'm curious in talking about going all the way back to when you had Anne-Marie on, looking back at maybe not just the podcast, but the podcast, the apparel lineup, all of it. I'm always curious, because it's something I think about with TGN and certainly with Hodinkee, is there's always turning points. something that you may, you may think you're doing something routine, whether it's making another podcast episode or, you know, finalizing a new t-shirt or something. And then that becomes the thing that kind of accelerates or starts you down a new Hill, if you will. And I'm curious if you can look back in your mind at a couple of turning points that kind of helped standard age, like establish the footing that you have now.
Wesley Smith Oh God. Um, there's, there's two major ones. One, I hate to say it, but it is COVID. And the reason I say that is because I got furloughed from my then job. I had opened this store for Allen Edmonds here in San Diego, hired everybody, stocked the store, like did the whole deal. Right. That I'll fast forward. That was like in 20, I guess, 17. And then two and a half years later, furloughed everybody's at home and basically got paid to stay home. You know, like it was based on my 2019 W2 and I literally just dumped all of my money into my company effectively, like more or less, uh, what I could afford to. And, and that's how I started finally making my own clothes and, um, you know, sourcing the fabric, finding the manufacturer, um, all that stuff. So that was a major inflection point. Um, and then I would say the second is the podcast, I guess, I, if there's a single episode that got me down sort of the watch trajectory, I would say is probably Adrian Barker from Bark and Jack. Good guy. His episode did. Oh, he's the best. His first episode, he's actually been on the show twice. His, his episode like outperformed every episode I'd done before. And I was like, huh? Okay. Well, if it's watch content that seems to be, you know, the target for my audience, like I'll just start approaching more watch folks. And I try to mix it up here and there, but it's, There's a lot of watch people on my show now.
James Stacey Yeah, I mean, Adrian's a great guest and has a huge audience for a very specific reason. He's just a very approachable guy who's got a good perspective on it. So I could see that aligning nicely with your audience and also kind of growing the scope. So that certainly makes sense to me. I guess the other point of curiosity I have is having the ability to look back and having the sort of pressure cooker effect of COVID happen, which certainly aided TGN as well, let's be clear. Because you must get asked occasionally, like by other people who would like to start a business similar in some way, whether it's a clothing company that maybe matches their taste for the world, which would be different than yours, of course, but still sort of maybe inspired by what you've put together for Standard H. Are there kind of go-to things that you recommend or things you simply say like, well, do what you're going to do, but don't do these two or three things? Cause I'm sure there's folks in our audience who, who, who, who sit at their day job like I did for a long time. And like you did for a long time and dream about the thing that you do on your own. Certainly.
Wesley Smith Yeah.
James Stacey And, uh, and I think sometimes it, it, it's helpful to have the, well, maybe don't do these two or three things. Cause it costs me a year and didn't get me that much or something like that.
Wesley Smith Speaking of gatekeeping, as I mentioned before, and I'm not interested in it, it's, it's really because I, I kind of want to change the industry in that way because fashion, little people know is, is really big into gatekeeping. So finding a manufacturer's borderline impossible. Now, what I'm not interested in is somebody just like saying, Hey, who do you use? And it's like, that took me years to find out. That's the secret sauce. Yeah, exactly. So it's one of those things where, and, and little, little do people know, I also white label stuff for certain people in certain ways. Now it may not be my standard age t-shirt, But I do make apparel for other people. I've made it for watch brands. I'll say that. Sure. So I can help in more ways than one. Along with the gatekeeping, there's a laundry list of discouragement that's going to be thrown your way as well, just because it's very, very hard. It's extremely hard. Don't underestimate how hard making a t-shirt actually is. I heard somebody, was it Todd Snyder? Somebody told me recently that Todd Snyder when was on record as saying, if you want to start an apparel brand, you need $20 million. Wow. So I don't have $20 million, but what I do have is a long running history of reinvestment into my company. And so you have to be prepared to have a long runway of either not making any money or losing money, or it's, it's just financially intensive. The other piece of advice really I would say is, is, um, just stick to, to what you set out to do. Like just keep your head down. If you have, stay focused. Yeah. And, and don't try, I know this sounds silly and kind of mean everybody knows what's best for your business. Right? So it's kind of like, you stick to you. And the, the couple of times that I have listened to a couple of people, those products did not sell. And I don't know, I think there's like a, almost a tactile authenticity that's lacking when you're doing something you personally wouldn't normally do. You know, there's like, it's, it's gonna, it's not really lacking in authenticity, but it is. Do you think it's like a gut thing? Yeah. I think, I think people can, can feel when something is tried and true or they know when it's a standard age product and they know when it's not.
James Stacey My experience with your products is something that I think if you looked at them from afar or next to other products, they're very subtle. And I think it takes some time to wear and to experience. And then just the longevity of the product is different than what I would pay for at a department store or anything like that. I'm wearing the gray XK and it's a... I don't actually know how many times I've watched this, so many times at this point, which is a terrifying thing for someone who likes a piece of clothing, because typically washing, especially drying, seems to just destroy anything you buy at a certain price point. If you're thinking Banana Republic and down, don't dry any of it, is my suggestion, because it'll just disintegrate.
Wesley Smith And the funny thing that you mentioned that is because my history comes from working with those brands, I very often don't dry even my own stuff. I know I can, but it's even dry t-shirts. Yeah, that's exactly what I'm saying. They don't last. Yeah. I, I just, I have dried my t-shirts of course. And I know you can to your point, but I don't personally, but I also am, I'm a freak about fit. Like if I want it to fit on day one and I never like this goes for other brands primarily and less so about mine, but it's yeah, I, I, I just, I don't want to mess it up. You know what I mean? Like it's perfect the way I bought it. I don't want to change it.
Jason Heaton You know, to, to, to these points, I, I just wanted to say that I think you almost, it's almost a disservice to say that standard H is a t-shirt brand. When people hear t-shirt, I mean t-shirts, I mean we've sold t-shirts and TGN and we've, I mean.
James Stacey These aren't graphic tees that you pick up from a, you know, from a drop shipping website.
Jason Heaton Not to, you know, blow smoke or oversell or whatever, but I, I, there is something about your shirts that, It causes people to look closer and there are these subtle details and the fit and just the cut, the things like the side gussets, the placement of the pocket, the fit, et cetera, really stand apart. And, and I'm not just saying this cause you're a guest on TGN here. I, there, there really are superior t-shirts and, um, I'm just curious, like, how do you, how did you approach designing a t-shirt from the, from the ground up with such a massive market for T-shirts? How do you do that?
James Stacey Well, it feels like making a new hamburger. Yeah, right. There isn't a new hamburger, right? It's a classic, everybody kinda knows what it is, but the difference from... Let's be clear, if you're a hamburger nerd or even just a casual fan of the occasional hamburger, I know, Jason, less so you than me, but I think there's a huge delta between one hamburger and another, and then once you have your favorite, everything else kind of betrays the quality of the favorite.
Wesley Smith Yeah, well... It's a difficult thing. Now I'm craving In-N-Out.
James Stacey Me too, man. But that goes for every minute of every single day when I'm not in Los Angeles. Because if I'm in Los Angeles, I have In-N-Out in my hand.
Wesley Smith Yeah, totally. Right there on Sepulveda, I'm sure. And so, yeah, so when I set out to do my thing, it was a, what have I enjoyed about previous items I've owned and how do I combine them all? Because no t-shirt that I had tried up to that point was really, quote, perfect. in my opinion. Now, that could be, I wanted something that, I hate the term dress casual, but something that's just a little bit more elevated feeling, you know, which is kind of how I describe their brand.
James Stacey Which is something of an LA perspective on, on casual clothing as well. Right. Is there, they have this kind of nice history of taking a white, a plain white t-shirt and going a level up. You think it's jeans, it's actually corduroys. Like it's always this kind of one notch, right?
Wesley Smith Sure. Yeah. And so, um, and honestly, you, we almost can thank James purse personally for elevating the t-shirt. Cause that's pretty much what he built his business on. Now, when he moved from what's called an inset neck, and this is interesting too, because like looking forward, something I want to do in the future is, is product videos and like having a YouTube channel and sort of breaking down kind of visually the questions that you're asking. Right. And so an inset neck versus a binded neck, um, So he switched from an inset to a binded. I prefer the inset. So it's a little cleaner look. It's a little dressier look, dare I say. Also hiding all the stitching and stuff on the shoulders. That was twofold. One, it was a cleaner look and two, it mimicked. And the reason I was sort of inspired to do that is I was looking at the seams of the car, right? Like if you look at a car where the panels come together, they call it a seam. But there's no stitching. There's no bolts. There's no there. You don't know how the panels there. Right. It's just it's just there. And so that's kind of what I wanted to emulate in the T-shirt. So that's why there's no visible stitching anywhere around the bulk of the T-shirt. Now, there is at the hem. Different story. So those are two things. One inset neck, hidden stitching, thicker fabric would be a third one. I wanted something that was a little thicker. You can take this argument, kind of go one of two ways. One, it's thicker, it's more robust, it holds its shape better. Or if it is hot, kind of a misnomer is you need something really thin. Well, when I wear really thin t-shirts and sweat, it becomes a wet t-shirt contest and it just sticks to you, you know? Whereas a thicker fabric will actually not stick to your body the same way. So there's a different drape inherently. And then made in the USA was, was sort of the last thing. And so is it patriotic? Sure. Am I like, is it solely about patriotism? No, but it is about keeping jobs here and also managing inventory and quality control and having it in my backyard, so to speak. That was another thing. And I knew the best place to make a USA made t-shirt is Los Angeles, right? So it's right up the street. And so those were sort of the main, spokes of, of this wheel of, of the things that I wanted to do with my t-shirt. And then I guess if you want to throw in color choices, I wanted my colors, obviously, you know, so Jason, I think you're wearing the British racing green right now. I go through countless Pantone's now granted British racing. Green's a tricky one too, because it's like, there's, there's an amalgamation of that color over time. Right. But, but like golf blue was one that I did and the RS t-shirts with you know, Ruby stone, Ruby star red, and, and some of those PTS colors that you'll see in Porsche. Um, so yeah, it's about, again, bringing all of those details, which again, some might from afar just say, oh, well that's just a t-shirt, but really I just listed five, six reasons as to how it could or could not be different.
James Stacey Right. So, and then if we extrapolate that, obviously you have this core understanding of something that I think a lot of people take for granted, a t-shirt. And that same understanding extends to all the other clothes that you make. I'm sure that's obvious. What I think is less obvious and almost feels like magic, black magic at some point, is how do you take that and turn it into a lifestyle brand? Like it's one thing to make a great t-shirt. You're not the first person to do that. You're not the last. A great t-shirt is a great t-shirt. I'm a big fan, obviously. And I think that's difficult. And you had a big background in being able to get to that point with the product. But how do you take that product and then integrate something as nebulous as like Southern California car culture into a T-shirt or into a jacket or a sweatshirt or a podcast?
Wesley Smith Yeah, I think it's twofold. And one is, I didn't even mention the pocket before, which was, I launched a crucial T-shirt. So the Avant T-shirt has the glasses. Yeah, exactly. So it's a larger pocket so that your sunglasses won't fall out. It's less ornamental, more utilitarian. I named it the Avant T-shirt after the Audi Avant, the wagon. So it's an ideal daily driver with ideal utility, right? So like that's, so to your question, I think it's with the vernacular used, right? So there's that part. And then there's also just the visual language with photography and sure. You know, when you shoot watches design of the brand, yeah. Like you're not going to shoot a dive watch on the instrument panel of an airplane, right? Like you're, you're going to put it next to some scuba gear probably. So it's, it's that kind of thing. So the, It's familiar. And those who don't know what things are used for, that's why you do that. There's almost like an unspoken implication involved in, oh, this must be a dive watch because that's a regulator next to it or whatever. Sure. I'm not a diver, so I'm probably already speaking out of my depth here. Pun intended, I guess.
James Stacey And I guess also being part of the scene is helpful. Sure. You're an active member of Southern Cal, the same sort of scene that's captured in your photos and that sort of thing.
Wesley Smith Yeah.
James Stacey And, and honestly, I assume some of the podcast guests come from.
Wesley Smith Sure. Yeah. My interest in watches for sure. Um, which, which really started, I guess, if we were to go back in the watch interest thing, like when I was like, yeah, let's, let's dig into watches for sure. I first noticed my first Rolex on my grandfather's wrist. And so any man of means in the eighties had a two-tone Datejust. And so that's something he gifted me on my wedding day. Um, but even before that, my high school graduation gift was a Swiss army Victorinox officers ratchet bezel. And it's a quartz watch, which predates.
Jason Heaton Yeah.
Wesley Smith Oh, I love it. And honestly, I just put a new battery in it three days ago. And it's just funny saying that cause like I haven't worn a watch with a battery in it in years. And so I was so excited to put it back on my wrist and, Dude, it's timeless. Like it's the aesthetic. It's, it's, it ain't broke, you know, it's, it's great. It's beautiful. Arabic numerals that sort of that, that ratchety bezel. It's, it's great. I absolutely love it. And it was big in 1998 when I got it, you know, like, I mean, it was, it's either 38 or 40 millimeter. I can't remember, but I remember people commenting on the elevator in my dorm room freshman year. And they'd be like, sure. And that's a pretty big watch. Like I remember somebody saying that to me.
James Stacey Well, I mean, look, there was, there was that era for a little while where men of a certain mean, so maybe a college student, maybe somewhere around there, it was Victorinox. It was Esquire. Yeah. Right. Maybe, maybe grandma and grandpa got you something into the, uh, the Movado. You had like a museum dial for, for semi-formal or grad or whatever. Right. Yeah. So yeah, I remember that era quite fondly for sure.
Wesley Smith That was sort of the first watch I asked for that. So my paternal grandmother gave me that as my high school graduation gift. And, um, that was it, man. I mean, I wore that thing everywhere. Yep. And then I moved, when I moved to LA in 2007, I was strolling around Rodeo drive and, and this was back on the side street, I think it's Dayton way. I think it might be the side street that it was on, but it was, um, I think it was IWC, JLC, and either Vacheron Panerai. I don't know. It was like Richemont brands that were all right there. And, I walked, the first one I walked in was IWC and I was just like, Oh my God, what is this place? And then it was also like, how much is this?
James Stacey Like, you know what I mean?
Wesley Smith Like I'm wearing a $350 watch and like I made a beeline for the Portofino chronograph. Like it just stuck out to me in the glass. I'll never forget. It was on the back wall, light shining black dial, black Gator strap. And that was it. I was like, Oh my God, that's the most beautiful watch I've ever seen. Now up into that point, obviously. So, um, but even still, it's still a great looking. That was, that was the first kind of, I say that was the first watch involving a comma in the price tag that I fell in love with.
James Stacey And it was a good era for IWC as well.
Wesley Smith Yeah. You know, and, um, so I ended up years and years later getting it and I just, I'll never sell it. That's just, I still love it.
James Stacey The same, the black dial, the black crock strap?
Wesley Smith Exactly the way I saw it.
James Stacey All right. And what else, what else is kind of in the rotation these days? We don't have to go through the whole collection necessarily, but like what else do you like to wear for given scenarios?
Wesley Smith I've been going through a bit of a consolidation lately, but right now I'm wearing the, as fate would have it, the IWC Tribute to 3705. Oh, yeah. Which is the Saratani and release, I think, I don't know, 2021 maybe. I'm obsessed with this watch. I mean, it's, it is quintessential IWC in every way, shape or form. Like it just, the, the materials use the dial layout. Yeah. It's clearly a black dial if it's IWC, you know, like it's, it's just so legible. And then of course you've got the cues from the original, 3705 with the square hour hand. And it's just, it's all in the details, right? Like I've just always been meticulous like throughout my whole life. And so it's got to look right for me to even try it on because you know, I mean if a color is off, I'm not interested, you know, like it's just, but yeah, so this, this gets a lot of where, uh, my wedding watch was an op no date 36, uh, black dial. Perfect. Nice.
James Stacey I think I saw that one at wind up, I think.
Wesley Smith Yeah, probably. Yeah. I mean, that thing, if I think I've said this before, but, um, if my wife and I go on a trip to somewhere we've never been before together, that's the only watch I take. And then, so it really gets that sort of wedding watch experience and story. Uh, it's snorkeled in the Maldives. Like it's, uh, it's an oyster case after all, you know? So, I mean, it's, it's in water all the time. It's, I wear it everywhere. do everything nice. I have a I have a cardio cardio tank Louie that I'm obsessed with love to dress it down, you know, jeans and t shirt quotient. That's great. Yeah. What are you guys wearing today? What do you what have you got on?
James Stacey Pelagos 39 for me. It's the the real daily since I've had it for actually I guess about a year this week. Great watch. Yeah, I mean, it's leaves very little on the table aside from maybe the only thing that's lasted as like a small thing that bugs me is the 21 millimeter lugs.
Wesley Smith Right.
James Stacey It doesn't actually matter because it's one of the few watches I just adore on the bracelet and the rubber is really good, but I wouldn't mind being able to just try the 200 straps I have that are 20 millimeter.
Wesley Smith 100%. It's probably in the cabinet behind you. It's full of straps.
James Stacey Yeah, I got that. I've got... Yeah, they're around.
Jason Heaton I've got on the Bremont Supermarine 2000. Uh, this is watch I've had for a long time. I'm headed off to, uh, to England actually to visit Bramont tomorrow, flying over to Henley. So, Oh, incredible. It's kind of a British watch week for me.
Wesley Smith So, yeah. So I was in Feldmar watches the other day getting my battery exchanged in that Swiss army watch. And I was staring at the Bramont case like that was, I don't own them. I've, I've tried them on before. Of course, Mike Pearson being a good buddy of ours way back when. You know, partnered with those guys. But, um, yeah, I can't say enough about Braymont.
James Stacey Yeah, they've got some real gems for sure. But look, Wesley, this is, uh, you know, been an absolute treat to have you on to chat about, uh, kind of the history of a standard age and, and where things are going with that. Uh, any, any news that you want to share, maybe things coming up or best ways to keep in touch, all that kind of stuff. I think there's a little bit of a, a piece of news we haven't gotten to yet. Right.
Wesley Smith Yeah. So there's, um, there's a backstory. I can go into it as much as you want, but there, I just released a mechanic shirt through a retail partner called revolve.com. Now many of your partners and or wives potentially could be shopping on revolve every day and you don't know it. Uh, they are huge. Uh, I know I have boxes showing up on my doorstep from time to time from them. Uh, and they are expanding their men's division and luckily brought me on, um, a standard H for spring of 2024. It's a, it's a mechanic shirt that actually derived, uh, as an inside joke from two summers ago. Um, you're familiar with Oris watches. I know they have billboards in four major league ballparks throughout the U S and one of them is Petco here in San Diego for the Padres VJ, the CEO, the North American CEO of, of Oris. and Josh Shanks, who works in marketing for them, have both become dear friends of mine. And so we went for Aura's day at Petco along with them was former Talking Watch's guest, Gary Stryjewski, who's from ESPN. And so he was here as well. Long story short, we're all out to dinner. We'd just spent all afternoon together at the ballpark. And Gary turns to me at dinner and he goes, Bro, what do you do again? You, you sell transmissions. And I was like, I like everybody at the table loses it. And, um, I was like, dude, I've got to make this a product somehow, like the standard age transmissions or something, you know? And finally I just went out and bought like a few Dickies shirts and had these big patches made that say standard age for speed racing transmissions on the back. And, um, I gifted those Dickie shirts to Vijay and Gary and, and anybody who was at the table. And it was just super fun. And as a result, a couple people have said like, wait, where can I buy one of those? And I was like, Oh, people actually like these. So then I went to the trouble of sourcing the fabric and actually making the shirt because I didn't want to obviously sell a Dickie shirt. So yeah, I just recreated my own mechanic shirt. use the same patch on the back and then that launched through revolve.com. Um, so that's exciting. That was a, that was an exciting moment, um, to, to see those up there.
James Stacey But, um, and we'll have a, have a link to that in the show notes. Anyone can check that out. It is just called the mechanic shirt. It looks pretty solid, nice, uh, sort of dark blue, uh, no front logo, uh, short sleeve button up, which is, I'm a huge fan of it's a great look. And then a really fun sort of, yeah, racing inspired logo on the back. I like it. It's a, that's cool.
Wesley Smith Yeah. So they're, they're again, kind of a departure, right? Like with the, uh, the t-shirts doing their thing, I wanted to bring something new to the table and rather than just doing a t-shirt with that graphic on it, I thought, you know, doing something with a little more, I made it harder for myself, I guess is a better way of saying that. Been there. Um, but they, uh, they, they turned out well. I like it a lot. The fabric's great. It's just a hundred percent cotton twill. Um, that's kind of, you know, to be expected a robust nature.
James Stacey Cool. Well, look, man, it's been an absolute treat to have you on the show. It's nice to be able to expand on what we started a couple of years ago at Windup. Obviously, Jason and I are huge fans. You know, there's only a couple of brands whenever I know I'm going to be on camera where I'll feel confident enough wearing the clothing to not be like fidgeting with it. And the standard eight tees and sweaters are like essential for me to feel like comfortable and like myself on camera. I'm always like that T-shirt looks good. I'm happy with this. This is good.
Wesley Smith And thank you so much. James for doing that. And like, honestly, I hope you don't mind because I always tag you. I screenshot those videos and tag you. So I hope that's OK.
James Stacey But yeah, for for anyone who maybe isn't already following you on Instagram or the website or the podcast, why don't you give people the quick rundown of the best way to keep in touch and so that they don't miss things like mechanic shirts or new drops or new episodes?
Wesley Smith I mean, obviously, the email list is essential, but standard hyphen H dot com is the website. Instagram is at standard H underscore. Those are really the website, the email list, I would say. And then Instagram's by far the best way. And then of course, standard H podcast is what it's called. Uh, that's available on Apple, Spotify, all the major places.
James Stacey Awesome. And it'll also all be in the show notes, but man, it's always a treat to, uh, to get to chit chat with you and learn a little bit more about standard H and what y'all are up to. So thanks so much for this. And, uh, If you have any questions for Wesley, you know how to reach out to him and engage with the product. So it's been a treat to have you on.
Wesley Smith Thanks so much guys. Great to see you.
Jason Heaton All right. Well, uh, thanks again, uh, Wesley Smith for coming on TGN, uh, yet again for, for a more extended chat. And it's always such a pleasure to talk to him. You know, even after we, we kind of stopped recording, we, we went on for probably another 20 minutes, just kind of getting caught up and chatting about this and that. And I, I swear that's a guy, you know, I'd love to just kind of sit and have a beer with and talk, talk with for a couple of hours. So that was, uh, that was good fun. And we certainly do love his, uh, love his products. We're both, uh, both fans of the t-shirts and both were wearing the sweatshirts today is, uh, probably like, you know, your, your mention of the Pelagos and how that's become kind of our default watch for, for TGN. I think a standard age shirts are kind of our default as well. So, uh, good stuff.
James Stacey Yeah, there's times when I'll plan to wear something for a guest or something that aligns. I didn't even think about it today. I got up a little bit too late and grabbed some clothes, and just my go-to is one of these sweatshirts from Standard H. So you can find all that in the show notes and more. Do keep up with Wesley and what they're up to with Standard H. It's some good stuff. But why don't we jump into some final notes and put a bow on it? Yeah, sure.
Jason Heaton You wanna go first? Yeah, sure. I recently got a little care package in the mail from Darren over at Zulu Alpha in the UK. And, uh, Zulu Alpha is a maker of high quality kind of military style straps. Uh, Darren also launched a podcast not long ago that I highly encourage people to check out. It's, uh, he's had some really fun guests on there. He's had Nicholas from fears. He's had, uh, uh, Don from vertex and, and just a number of really interesting guests lately. And he does a nice, nice job with that. Nice. Um, but he's kind of expanded out of the, strap business and he's starting to introduce some kind of other accessories and clothing, uh, to come. And he sent me a couple of samples of his new beanies or watch caps, uh, recently that are made in the UK knitted from a hundred percent Merino wool. And what makes them unique is, um, you know, for someone like me, who's a huge fan of beanies and have way too many, um, these are very different because they're, they're knitted in a traditional, what's called a Guernsey pattern. Which if, if you're familiar with kind of that style from maybe a sweater, um, it'll be familiar to you, but, uh, it, it comes in two colors, red or green, which he's labeled, uh, appropriately port and starboard, um, and kind of a nod to his nautical leanings. And, uh, yeah, they're really good stuff. They've got like a little, little kind of patch on the side. They're, they're really well-made, uh, not too itchy, um, good fit. And, uh, I've really been enjoying them. I mean, we're still. We're still in kind of late winter, early spring. We're having some ups and downs in the weather. And so I've been, uh, I've been enjoying wearing them. So yeah, if you want, uh, you can check them out there. They're actually called the Caswell watch cap and we'll throw a link in the show notes. So thanks again to Darren for sending those over. And, uh, yeah, if you're into a new beanie, check it out.
James Stacey Yeah. I mean, where, where I'm from, we call those two cause I'm wearing one now. I'm a big fan. So these both look great. I don't know how you'd necessarily pick between the two colors. Cause a red cap is kind of fun, even for a guy that doesn't wear a ton of color like me. And the green looks solid. So congrats to Azula Alpha for launching those. Very cool stuff indeed. Mine for the week is actually super simple. It's a little follow up on the talk we had about Ice Race because Henry and Haggerty, that's Henry Catchpole and Haggerty for the driver's seat, have launched their video. It's almost 19 minutes long. It's really good. It includes Henry driving a handful of cars while they're there. It's a really great kind of visual Essay on ice race and what it looks like and what it feels like. And some of the people who are there, I highly recommend it. Uh, it's not something we need to, like, I need to talk at length about, I'm just telling you to go watch it. Henry's awesome. We're a huge fan and he did a great job. He and Glenn and their team, uh, putting this video together. Uh, I got to see bits and pieces of it come together as I kind of followed Henry around, uh, for a couple of days at the show. But it was it was definitely a blast and fun to finally see the video come out and to see them be able to make a video like this that quickly is also fairly impressive to me.
Jason Heaton Yeah, it was it was cool. I did watch it when he he kind of put up a link on Instagram. And my favorite was that that wild modified old Toyota pickup truck. I mean, I think it's just the sound.
James Stacey Yeah. So, so cool. So, so cool. Yeah. That thing was such a treat to see in person because it was just like this head scratcher of like, what am I looking at? What was the original truck? What did what did the original look like? This incredible outboard suspension in the bed of the truck. These are just some of the coolest things I've come across as far as like very heavily modified, essentially unique vehicle design is some of this stuff. And this vintage truck turned drift missile for Ryan Tork is such a fun idea. So, yeah, I highly recommend the video. And, Henry, if you're listening, a beautiful job to you and the team. uh just always a blast uh to see a great another great henry video come out so this is a good one and it's cool to you know selfishly for me it's cool to see a video come out from something i was at and uh and you know many times like chatting with henry between uh various you know things he got to drive and he got to drive some really cool stuff as well so i was Don't skip that one.
Jason Heaton I was squinting to see if you were in the background in some of those videos. I'm sure you were kind of blurry in the back there as he was flying by.
James Stacey I'm sure there's I'm sure there's a hand or an arm or, you know, the top of my big dumb head somewhere in the frame. I get in the way.
Jason Heaton All right. Well, that wraps another great episode of TGN. We're kind of on a roll this year, I think, with some with some great guests, Wesley being one of them. And it felt like vintage kind of TGN. We got a little apparel and driving and watches and and just a good chat with Wesley. As always, thanks so much for listening. If you want to subscribe to The Show Notes, get into the comments for each episode, or consider supporting the show directly, and maybe even grab a new TGN signed NATO, please visit TheGreyNATO.com. Music throughout is siesta by Jazzar via the free music archive.
James Stacey And we leave you with this quote from Henry Matisse, who said, don't wait for inspiration. It comes while working.