The Grey NATO – 271 – Slack Crew & A 2024 // Part 1

Published on Thu, 08 Feb 2024 06:00:00 -0500

Synopsis

Jason and James host another episode of their podcast The Graynado. They discuss Jason's upcoming trip to the FAT Ice Race event in Aspen where he will get to drive and photograph cars on ice and snow. James talks about the unusually warm winter weather he's been experiencing in Toronto that allows him to drive his convertible Land Rover.

They go through a Q&A segment from questions submitted by listeners in their Slack community. Questions cover topics like worst travel experiences, choosing which watches to keep if you could only have three, shoe tying techniques, buying equipment for scuba diving as a new diver, secondary watch market pricing vs retail, and sharing little-known personal facts about themselves.

For Final Notes, Jason recommends the Prestige TV podcast from The Ringer that discusses the new season of True Detective, while James suggests the British spy thriller series The Ipcress File. Jason also highlights the Yeti espresso mugs he got as a gift.

Links

• episode page
• episode MP3
• episode webpage snapshot
• episode MP3 - local mirror

Transcript

Speaker
James Stacey	Hello, and welcome to another episode of the Graynado, a loose discussion of travel, adventure, diving, driving gear, and most certainly watches. This is episode 271, and it's proudly brought to you by the ever-growing TGN supporter crew. We thank you all so much for your continued support. And if you're listening and you aren't supporting the show already, but would like to, please visit thegraynado.com for more details. My name is Jason Heaton for those who are new to the show, and I'm joined as ever by my friend and co-host up in Toronto, James Stacey. James, good morning. How's it going?
Jason Heaton	Yeah, pretty good here. You know, back from AORUS last week was a couple of days, Wednesday through Friday, and then had a pretty, pretty low key weekend. So no real complaints. We're going to double stack an episode today. So we're doing episode 271 and the January Q&A, which will come out mid February. Um, and we're going to record them all because I'm, I'm on a plane in 24 hours to head to Aspen for FAT ice race or fat ice race, which, uh, I'm very much looking forward to. Um, it, it should be fun. It better be fun. It looks like, uh, uh, it should be essentially the definition of my kind of fun. So, uh, yeah, pump for that. Hopefully the travel goes well. It can be a little bit stressful getting to Aspen. Um, uh, you know, uh, if the weather's good, then we're solid. It looks like it's going to be pretty stable, just below zero, uh, just below freezing for most of the. The week. So hopefully the snow holds as well for all that they have planned. Uh, but I guess we'll see, I'll have a report from that sometime in the future. We have a pretty special guests for next week's episode. So I'm not sure we'll do a huge download from ice race, but, uh, I'm sure we'll get the details in one way or another.
James Stacey	Yeah. And I would expect you'll have some kind of a photo essay or post at some point about that. I can't wait to see it. Seems like it'll be a very photogenic event. I would hope so.
Jason Heaton	I would hope so. I mean, Cole covered the Zelle outing a few years ago, and it was gorgeous. And then Top Gear did a video from Zelle this year, which I can throw in the show notes. Ollie Marriage was out there with a crew, and they did a cool video. And, you know, they were in mud. Oh, wow. It seemed like on the track they ran out of snow. So, I mean, that thing's going to happen. Yeah. We'll see what Aspen does, but it certainly should be a great setting. And I'm hoping for nice, bright days, clear, Uh, skies and, and lots of sunlight and that kind of thing. And I've, I've got a whole bag of gear, including some brand new gear, which we can get into, uh, if we want to, but, um, yeah, we should have plenty of social media on, on Hodinke's Instagram and on mine. And then, yeah, we'll do a full photo report probably for, you know, Monday or Tuesday of next week.
James Stacey	Yeah. I mean, it's, uh, it seems to be a reality these days that, that a lot of places are running out of snow. So I hope, uh, it seems like Colorado is getting a pretty good dump. Uh, these days, so hopefully you'll, there'll be plenty of, uh, snow banks and good spray coming off of tires and stuff like that.
Jason Heaton	I'm hoping so. I'm hoping for all that kind of stuff. Uh, I've already heard from a few folks, uh, some that have been on TGN before, uh, that they're going to be in the area. And, and, you know, some of these people I haven't actually ever. seen face to face, but I'm a fan of so hopefully that all works out and stay tuned for more on that. But it should be good. I mean, like, like I said, it should essentially define my style of fun. I'm out there with cameras and cars and people who like both. It should be a fun time, lots of watches and hopefully some good food and that sort of thing. So Uh, we'll see, we'll see how it goes. Need to remind myself that, uh, uh, you know, even in my newly mostly sober state, even a couple of drinks at altitude or is I'm going to feel it.
James Stacey	So, Oh, that's right. Yeah. That could be a bad recipe.
Jason Heaton	It's an easy thing to forget if you don't think about it. Um, that, that especially, especially I would call myself currently detrained when it comes to drinking. Uh, I'm not sure that's the term any actual athlete would use. But, um, yeah, I, uh, I think, I think it should be a good time. I'm looking forward to it. I'm out there with Ben. Uh, so we should be able to kick around and have, have a good time. And, and certainly it's, uh, a nice way to kind of get back into shooting cars and that sort of thing. A fun event.
James Stacey	Yeah. Nice. Nice. Which, uh, which camera are you taking?
Jason Heaton	Q and the M10. Um, and then I bought a Insta360 GO 3, which is a, like a very tiny action cam, uh, that's a little bit more tuned for like vlogging or like a bit more varied use than say a GoPro. Yeah. A similar idea. Yeah. Um, but you can actually detach the little tiny camera module from the part with the screen and like magnet it to your clothes or clip it to your hat. And then you actually can use the other half of the device as like a monitor to check the view and that sort of thing. So I'm going to play around with that. I'm not necessarily sure what I'll do with any of that kind of stuff, but, uh, That's part of the new gear. The other thing I bought, which I'm genuinely so excited about, and I realized, man, there's definitely a reason I got into a series of essentially gear heavy professions. One of those obviously has been photography for a long time, but Hodinkee has a new sort of push. They want to get into more short form video. So that's Instagram and that sort of thing. And as part of that, my concern is we always have lots of stuff to talk about or point a camera at, But how do we capture it in a way that at least hits a certain bar in terms of quality? And the nice thing is, is if you want to do short form video, your phone typically is a good enough camera these days, in most cases, more than enough. Yeah. But the audio can be kind of challenging and did a bunch of research, tried out some gear and finally settled on this set from DJI that I'm kind of blown away with. Like if this had existed when I was a kid, It would have been like, you know, like that first time I saw an iPod or something like that. Yeah. These are little wireless labs. It's called the DJI Mic 2. The easiest thing to consider is it kind of comes in a case that's like a big version of an AirPod case. Yeah. So it's like a fitted charging case and you get two clip-on lavalier microphones. They're like maybe 70% the size of a Zippo lighter with a clip on one side that's also magnetic. And then you get an RX. So the receiver is also a little unit that can slide into a camera's cold shoe or actually mount directly into the bottom of your iPhone. And you can record audio directly into the video feed, uh, which is pretty clever. It has the same thing for, um, USBC, but you end up with two microphones. And I think in the future, you and I will probably try and do a podcast with these. Um, I can actually, in a moment, I'll even give you a little audio test. If people would like to hear it, But what's clever is the RX has a little screen on it. So you can see all the parameters and who's recording and what the levels are. So if you want to use it as a monitor, you can, but each of the microphones has built in audio and 32 bit recording. So they, you click record on the microphone itself, and it just records a track to that microphone, which you then plug in with USB-C and you can pull the track. It's probably more meant for a safety track than the normal way of doing it. But I already record, we already do everything with two tracks. You're recording a track and at your place, and I'm recording a track at my place, and then we blend them together to make the episode. And I think this will work in a very similar fashion. I can even do a quick recording here. So in 3, 2, 1, we're going to switch over to one of these DJI Mic 2s. Test 1, this is the audio coming out of the microphone. I'm holding this up, and if I were to move it down to where you might mount a lav, it will sound like this. Just like this. This is the microphone. It's kind of cool. They're really small and easy to carry. We'll switch back to the main mic here. really small and easy to carry and at the AORUS preview. So you'll see those more like in April. And then some that we've done on the site recently, we launched, uh, like Hood & Key launched, uh, the, a new G-Shock LE that Ben designed and Ben and I did a little video and we used a set of these mics for that audio. And it was all like, I'm not saying the audio is perfect, but perfect audio requires a microphone right in front of your face, give or take. But for the very low barrier of connecting this in really not changing or doing anything in terms of settings, clicking record on the phone and getting clean audio. I'm kind of thrilled. It makes me really happy and kind of jazzed to like try this out on, on new stuff. So we've got some podcasting planned for the future that I might be able to use this for. And certainly this will come in very handy when we do the Hodinkee radio episodes at watches and wonders. So When you're listening to this yesterday, Houdinki Radio will have been relaunched with Tony Trena as kind of the lead host. I'm kind of a backup producer, helper, that sort of thing. Tony's already up and running. He's got a couple of great episodes in the can. So check that out. I think it's going to be a nice evolution of the show. And certainly I don't think the world needs my voice on two podcasts that is largely about watches, right? So I'm thrilled to have someone with some podcasting background. Tony's run his own podcast in the past. I really enjoy working with Tony and he's very easy and talented guy. And I think he's going to come up to speed on the podcast really quickly. So if you are looking to rekindle your love of Houdinki radio or, or have a new sort of podcast in there, check that out. It's also all video. Um, so you can watch it on YouTube if you'd rather not just listen to it. So we capture all the zoom and cut it all together and, and, and that kind of stuff. So first episode, theoretically will have come out yesterday when you're listening to this or tomorrow when we're recording this as the podcast time travel does go. But yeah, I do really enjoy like weird little kit like this go three camera. I'm really excited to see what that looks like once I get a chance to use it for something. Yeah, you know, I envision mounting it to my chest or maybe my hat and then maybe getting to drive a car and you know, make being able to make gifts and stuff like that out of it, but we'll see. And then the audio is just handy if we have to do any sort of short form or or last minute stuff and I mean, this thing compared to carrying like a zoom, a full size zoom, like I have a PodTrak P4 and four SM58s and four cables, it's like almost incomparable. Fun stuff. New gear is always a treat.
James Stacey	Yeah. And you know, nowadays the barrier to entry is fairly low. I mean, it's kind of low risk if you're, I mean, I'm looking at the website here and it's, you know, for the two pack of these mics, you know, you're paying $249. If you just want a single, it's, It's 160 bucks, you know, I mean, it's, it's the same with, with drone technology and, and action cameras and things nowadays. I mean, you can try stuff without, you know, having to save for a year to buy it. And, um, yeah. And, and, and set up time and kind of the learning curve is, is pretty, pretty easy to nowadays. So that's, uh, that's amazing.
Jason Heaton	These are the, the second generation mic too. So I think they're three 50 currently. That's what I paid at BH. Yeah. I'll throw it in the show notes. If you're just curious as to like what they look like. Um, but, uh, fun thing. And certainly if you see a little rectangle clip to my collar and some of these videos coming up, that's what we're using.
James Stacey	So, yeah, well, on this end, I mean, it's, I don't have a lot of, a lot of news to report other than, you know, this, this crazy warm winter continues and, um, it's, it's, it was, it was actually a good, a good move last summer to take the roof off the, uh, the series three Land Rover, because I've, I think I've driven it every single month since then, including December, January. And then I was out yesterday cause it was 50 degrees Fahrenheit and, you know, a jacket and some gloves and a cap. And I was quite, quite fine tooling around. I mean, it's, it's, it was kind of surreal to do it. Um, and you know, the, the weather certainly, uh, uh, forbodes, uh, kind of bad things for the environment, et cetera. But, uh, you know, I, I guess when, when life gives you lemons, you make lemonade. And I was out for a, for a top down drive yesterday, which was pretty unique, pretty fun. Um, and, and it's been good for kind of training outside. I've been running a lot and, uh, you know, going to the pool for swimming and even on my bike, as I mentioned last week. And so it's, you know, it's just been kind of a, a wacky winter. I think, you know, the, the urge to escape someplace warm is, is far lessened when there's some sunshine and weather that you can actually get out and in light clothes and do stuff with. So yeah, that's, that's been kind of the story of things here. I'm, you know, been. Sorry to see that the news about kind of this, this major flooding event happening out in California and all the rain and stuff that's coming there. Um, so people are dealing with some different things, but, uh, as far as here, it's been, it's been calm and pretty warm. So yeah, I've just been taking advantage of it.
Jason Heaton	Very nice. Yeah, that's great. I'm glad to hear it. It's definitely been some strange weather. It was quite warm when I was in New York. I mean, I was was walking around without a jacket. Yeah. Um, with, with some exception and, and yeah, so I mean, it's, it's a weird thing to, to be talking about trying to go to ice race or hearing about ice race. They're not being any snow or ice. They moved off the lake sometime ago. Uh, yeah, it's, it's, it just seems like we're getting a strange winter and maybe this is what winters are like now. I mean, we, it's anecdotal, so I'm, I'm not presenting any data here, but I was just having that conversation with somebody. They're like, do you remember winter when we were kids in Southeastern Ontario?
Filler word/soundbite	Yeah.
Jason Heaton	I was like, yeah, we had like snow forts I could have lived in.
Filler word/soundbite	Yeah.
Jason Heaton	And now my kids have the saddest looking pile of snow in the backyard that couldn't even be formed into a snowman. Right. Uh, and that's about it. Otherwise it's like there's green grass outside and it's kind of warm, but yeah, it's a little bit of a strange thing, but also like you said, a little bit of a benefit if you, if you wanted to spend time outside, especially in the training mode that you're in currently, or if you wanted to go for a drive with the top down on the Land Rover or really anything.
James Stacey	Yeah. Right. Well, we've got, uh, quite an interesting episode ahead here. We should probably jump into it. Um, this is our, our Slack crew Q and a, uh, which is always a fun one, a little more fast paced than our, our standard monthly Q and a's. Uh, but before we jump into it, let's do a quick risk check. Uh, what do you, what do you have on?
Jason Heaton	Yeah, I'm wearing my Pelgos 39, uh, this morning as we're recording this just a few hours ago, Tudor announced that they're going to be, um, sponsoring a formula one team, the new visa cash app, RB team. a tough name on offer visa cash app RB. They're getting a lot of kind of, you know, shade online over that name, especially because at its core, that team is called racing bulls. Um, but of course it's had several names since, since that team started, it is the, uh, some people call it a development team. I'm not sure I buy that necessarily, but it's like the sister team it's owned by red bull, the new cars delivery, which I can only assume will also include tutor. will be shown the day this comes out, February 8th. So if you're in the Slack, I'm sure the F1 channel in Slack will include that, or you can check it out otherwise. But yeah, it's kind of an interesting announcement for Tudor. Obviously, we saw the Red Bull connection start as early as seven, eight months ago when they did the Alinghi Red Bull racing watches and the connection with that racing team. And now they're doing Formula One as well. I'm pretty pumped for the season. Uh, there's some pretty big news, you know, with, um, Lewis Hamilton leaving Mercedes for the 2025 season and going to Ferrari, uh, which is kind of a huge move, but 2024 should be interesting. And certainly I've always kind of wished any of the teams in the middle would suddenly, you know, have a big push, like we saw from McLaren last year. So if we get that from Alpha Tari, uh, now visa red, uh, now visa cash app, RB, goodness sakes. That's unfortunate. I figure we're all just going to call it Racing Bulls. I'm not sure. We'll settle somewhere in there. But yeah, so this is this is what we see now. I mean, that name sounds like something out of the movie Idiocracy or whatever, but it's kind of a strange, strange time. You know, Formula One's always been a banner and about selling ad space and the rest of it. So it is what it is. I think it's less crazy than, say, Rich Energy or something like that. But, you know, I'm excited to see if they do like a watch for these guys. I'm assuming they'll wait until you know, watches and wonders to announce something like that, um, just because it's so close to now. And because really the season starts only about a month before watches and wonders. So I guess we'll have to see that they might announce something a little earlier and then have it at the show or it might be held. But my guess is we'll see and understand more of whatever this is after the car is shown on the eighth and they show the new livery and the rest of it. So there's, there's some teasers and stuff online, but it should be fun Yeah. Uh, and, and cool for Tudor to, to go further into, uh, another sport and, and sort of one with such a high profile.
James Stacey	Yeah. They've been, they've been kind of, uh, really dipping their toe in a lot of different new areas lately that the cycling team is always exciting for me to see. And then sailing and now formula one, it's been, uh, it's been kind of a cool ride to, to witness here, uh, with Tudor.
Jason Heaton	Yeah, I agree. Yeah. All right. So what have you got on for today?
James Stacey	Yeah, the past couple of days I've been wearing the Vertex Aqualine, the M60 Diver, a watch that I hadn't pulled out for quite a while. And it's just such a fun watch to swap straps on. It comes with, it came with three different straps. So it came with kind of a cool ghosted striped NATO, which I had it on at first. And then I put it on the bracelet, which is a really lovely bracelet with kind of that trick those loom dots on the on the clasp when you flip it up. That's that's always fun. And then today I've just got it on the black rubber, which is a really great rubber. It's I think in warmer weather would be a little tacky. It doesn't really have any venting or anything. It's got a little bit of texture on the back, but it's a really nice rubber and then all of those come with quick release spring bars. So it's been kind of just fun just to kind of swap straps multiple times a day if I want. And it's just such an excellent watch just such a great fun piece to even wear at night and check out that awesome loom.
Jason Heaton	That's great, man. Yeah. Cool watch. You know, obviously we've been longtime fans of them and always nice to kind of mix it up a little bit and they make such a solid product for the price point and good pick. Yeah. All right. So I think it's time to get into the Slack Q&A for 2024. Normally our Q&As are done only on the sort of paid side of our subscription service so that you get a fifth episode every month, which is audio based people send in questions and we answer them and then that goes out to sort of the paid side of the subscriber feed. And the Slack crew and a kind of flips that whole script on its head. These are text based questions collected from our Slack. It gives you a nice kind of insight into what's going on in the Slack. It's nearly 1500 people at this point, so it's very busy. There's always a great conversation going on. Some really incredible watches. Great place to buy and sell a watch. Um, you know, we're not, not exactly getting a lot of complaints about having added this to the TGM portfolio, but. Last February, we were looking for a topic and figured like, ah, let's see what the crew would like to ask in a sort of a faster fashion than recording a voice app, sending it into the email, waiting for it to get queued up into the, into the system and then get your question answered. So we threw it out there and it ended up being four or five great episodes last year to get through all the questions this year, we've got More questions. We're going to try and move a little bit more quickly, but I think we probably have enough for at least three episodes, maybe more. Some of them are quite complicated, uh, but that's basically the impetus for this. It's the Slack crew and a, as I like to call it, and we got a ton of questions. So let's try and buzz through a few of these for this episode and see what's kind of on the mind of the Slack crew. Sure. You want to hit the first one, Jason?
James Stacey	Yeah. First one comes from our buddy, uh, Jackson B who asked us, um, Uh, you guys always talk about some great trips, but travel isn't always that way. What was your worst travel experience? Could be personal travel or work. James, any, uh, any nightmares, any, uh, travel snafus that you can think of?
Jason Heaton	Um, this is weird. I think I've just been very, very fortunate. I've been stranded a couple of times in Frankfurt, my least favorite airport, uh, least favorite airport that should be better. You know, I joke that it's, you know, Germany's finest bus terminal. I've been stranded a couple of times there to the extent that I know the hotel that I'll be going to. Yeah. Um, you know, and, and where I know where to get the bus when you miss your flight and you're given the voucher and the rest of it. Um, so that happens every now and then, and that's a bummer, but I think that's also just like cost of doing business. Just traveling with a kid is tough. Um, when my eldest was just after she was born, we went to, um, Hawaii from Vancouver. And so she would have been, you know, nearly one years old. And you bought the seat and had the car seat and brought the stroller. So you just end up with like, you know, you, it feels like you need, uh, you know, you need a Porter or, uh, you know, a Sherpa to help you get to the airport and then to the rental car and then you're mounting car seats and all that kind of stuff. So that kind of turned me off of like traveling with very small kids. And even now, like she looks at a picture, she goes, I don't remember that. Of course you don't remember you're one, right? Yeah. Right. So there's that. And then, you know, I definitely had it where there was a problem once with a hotel in New York, and I briefly considered just like sitting down and sleeping on the floor at Penn Station. Luckily, I was able to find like a last minute, ludicrously expensive Airbnb that was clearly illegal. My room was like the walls only went about, you know, eight tenths of the way to the ceiling. Yeah. You know, it was like a big room that someone had boxed in a bunch of other rooms. full of other weirdos. I assume in this scenario, I'm also a weirdo cause I accepted this. The weather was terrible. I'm trying to remember what that was. It was, it was for a Bremont press trip to New York. I think the plan was that I was going to sleep in your room if I remember correctly. And then you came, your flight was canceled or something like that. And then I ended up without a hotel that night. I can't remember the, this is years and years ago. This would have been 2018. Yeah. Yeah. Something like that. And it would have been like January 2018. So not like a great time to be in New York to begin with. I remember walking around like just in in Tribeca, you know, very slushy, trying to find a spot for an inexpensive meal. I think I bought like some soup and some like prepackaged cold cut meats at Whole Foods and took it back to my 70% room and tried to go to sleep like where I could hear everyone else breathing. It was like basically a hostel for $400 a night. So, yeah, I guess those those are as close as it comes. Really, I think I've just been so lucky. Um, I'm very careful the way that I travel and plan and prep for my travel and that sort of thing. So I haven't had any like genuine nightmares. I've been stranded a few places, a few overnights that you didn't plan for, but I figure like if you do a lot of flying, that just comes with the name of the game. Yeah. Yeah. How about you? Any, any nightmares?
James Stacey	You know, you know, I haven't really endured many missed flights. Um, I'm thinking back to recently your, your trip to, uh, to the South of France just last fall when we were going to meet up for that Blancpain thing and you I think you arrived just like 20 minutes before the boat was leaving for the evening event. That was tough for you. Um, most of my kind of travel woes have revolved around lost luggage. Um, you know, like longer trips where you need a variety of clothing. I'll check a bag and, uh, you know, I used to have kind of, there was kind of a streak of a few years where my bags kept getting lost. And one time I went to Iceland actually with Ghoshani and my parents, this was several years ago. And, uh, we landed and my luggage never arrived, but we had rented a car and we were setting off on kind of a circle tour around Iceland. And my, my luggage didn't arrive. So the airline gave me a very small stipend to kind of get by on. And it was like, you know, $50 or something. And I had to buy everything like underwear and socks and everything. So I ended up with like this whole wardrobe that I spent way more than, than what they gave me. And then the, the luggage came, but they kept. there were like a day behind our itinerary. So it kept going to the wrong place and then trying to get forward in. And so I kind of did the whole trip on not much. Um, and then another time I had a similar experience. I was going to Portugal, uh, to, to a place called cash case, which is kind of near Lisbon. It's kind of a sailing center. It was for actually, it was one of my very first group press trips and it was with IWC and they were launching the, the Portuguese, uh, yacht club. And the yacht club chronograph and we were going sailing. And then in the evening there was, and IWC gave us some nice swag. I mean, I think there was even a pair of shorts and a rugby shirt and some, uh, deck shoes, boat shoes. So it was kind of, I was kind of set for the event, but my luggage never arrived. And all I had for clothing was the stuff that I had traveled in. And the evening was kind of a more formal event. And I showed up in like, you know, a zipped up sweater and a t-shirt and like a pair of khaki pants and. hiking boots or something. And everybody else was like almost in, you know, dinner wear sort of suits and dresses and things like that. So, um, it was, it was a bit tough. Uh, on the other hand, I did meet, uh, it was being one of my early press trips. I made some good contacts and that led to some, some considerable work later, uh, with revolution, et cetera. So all wasn't too bad with that, but yeah, it's always, it's always been lost luggage, not so much, uh, missed trips or stuff like that. I mean, you get long layovers where you got to sleep on a bench in the airport, things like that, but that's not so bad.
Jason Heaton	Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I've slept in a lot of lounges. Uh, so it happens. And then that's the other plus is you travel enough that there's a certain threshold where like, if you travel enough, things kind of get easier. Right. Right. You have access to the lounge. You maybe even have, you know, I've had colleagues who travel enough and have the really, really big perks, the concierge, the car that picks you up, that kind of stuff. Oh yeah, sure. So, I mean, there are options like that if you're in the mix. I've never gotten to that level, which is fine. I'm very thankful and feel very blessed to still be able to get into a lounge and get a free cup of coffee and that kind of stuff. Yeah, that's a fun question, Jackson B. Let's jump to the next one from Michael Harris, who asks a little bit of a complicated question, but here's the text. Besides the fabled dream watches you have discussed in a previous episode, like the Pelagos GMT, What are your probably never going to happen watch related dreams? This could be something on the business side, like industry or journalistic, the tech side, or really anything watch related that while technically within the realm of possibility is almost assuredly never going to happen and is not a specific dream watch design. So in this case, Michael's example is a Grand Seiko 9F chronograph movement. He would love to see that maybe someday. Uh, that's a good example with the movement. Uh, Jason, when you read this, anything leaped to mind?
James Stacey	You know, the one thing that did come to mind, I don't have a lot to speak to this one on, but, um, you know, it reminds me of our interview with, with Mark Hayek and my question to him about will Blancpain ever do kind of an affordable 50 fathoms that a lot of people have really wanted myself included just something kind of more in line with, with, you know, what their kind of historical roots were in terms of dive watches. Totally. Um, I, I just don't think that's going to happen. I can't say it's a, a, you know, particularly strong dream of mine to see that, but I do think that it's something Blancpain is kind of firmly entrenched in, in kind of their space, kind of the upper kind of haute or luxury space, even with their dive watches. And I think to do anything, you know, remotely affordable, unless they kind of spin off a sub brand or something or reclaim the tourniquet name or do whatever they're going to do. I, I think what they'll do is they'll lean on the kind of the swatch collaboration for for hitting that mark, but, uh, that was it. I guess the other one I thought of was for years, I've thought Zenith should bring back a dive watch. And I don't think that's never going to happen. I actually could see that happening one day. I feel like it's kind of a hole in their lineup that they'll probably address someday. But, um, I thought I'd throw that one out there as well. What, what about you?
Jason Heaton	Yeah, I would agree. I think, especially with the Blancpain thing, that's, that's also was kind of on my lip probably just because of that, that chat we had with Mark. In your mind, just to clarify, what would be the price point of a quote unquote affordable Blancpain? Like would it be eight grand? Would it be four grand?
James Stacey	Yeah. I'm thinking like, you know, you can't get into Blancpain dive watch for under $10,000. I don't think these days. So. I don't believe so. Yeah. Yeah. I'm thinking under five, you know, like kind of Tudor territory. Sure. I don't think they need to, I don't think that's their market, but, um, You know, there are a lot of Blancpain fans that just can't get into it. Sure.
Jason Heaton	I think Omega would have some strong words if, uh, if they decided to go that route. So yeah. And then as far as mine, uh, this is a tough question because I genuinely believe just about anything is possible when it comes to like a watch, a watch man brand of making something, whether or not it's possible within the timeline of it being exciting is difficult. Like if Tudor takes four or five more years, let's say hypothetically to make Pelagos 39 GMT. I don't know how badly people will still want it. You know, there's like a moment for these things, right?
Filler word/soundbite	Right.
Jason Heaton	Right. And sometimes a brand hits the moment and it has this big kind of, it has a, some heat behind it, you know? Um, I, you know, I would, I would absolutely love it. You know, keeping in mind my, my recent purchase of a quote unquote Breitling Pluton, um, uh, a modern version of that movement.
Filler word/soundbite	Yeah.
Jason Heaton	uh, I think, or, or something that offered similar functionality. And I look, I, there's lots of rumors that there's a new aerospace coming. So that would suggest something's been done. Yeah. Um, but you look, you look at what like Casio and G-Shock are capable of making you go like, wait, why couldn't someone just make a modern version of this movement? So when mine broke on a four or $500 watch, or even a $2,500 UDT, I could take that old movement, set it aside in a little case, say, Hey, there it is. But it broke.
Filler word/soundbite	Yeah.
Jason Heaton	And I put in, I bought the new one from Breitling for $1,500 and had a watchmaker throw it in. It's got a battery. Maybe it has Bluetooth. I don't know. Like, like that's, that's kind of where my mind went is like, why I understand that, that some movements go away. Cause nobody's going to produce them anymore, but this was made by, by Miyota. Yeah. Right. In, in partnership with several brands. And it's, it's surprising that it's not something that's a little bit more common, especially with citizen who owns Miyota. making something similar in like an Aqualand. Right. There's still analog digital watches out there. I just think it'd be cool to see what the 2024 version, because like, why, if I buy a brand new Aerospace, why couldn't it do all my fitness tracking as well?
Filler word/soundbite	Yeah.
Jason Heaton	Yeah. I'm not saying I need it on the screen. Just put it in an app on my phone. Like the way I do the Aura Ring. Right. Right. Like the Aerospace could be this next, next level sort of smartwatch that, that more reflects deep enthusiast tastes rather than populous smartwatch taste. So I think that's kind of where, where my mind went with this one. I don't know that we'll ever see it because the market might be quite small. I think we've proven that the market is kind of small for something like the Lumedal Aqualand. Yeah. People who love it really love it. And you know, it's not a fortune. I think that whatever, let's say it's Breitling that comes out and develops their own, you know, B series movement, you know, they've, they've made the, the connected versions of like the, um, emergency in the past, there's like a $12,000 watch. So I don't think that's necessarily the solution either. But if they come up with a thin, capable, replaceable or serviceable, very accurate analog digital movement, and then we maybe see a return to multiple brands being able to access that movement, I'd be fascinated by that.
James Stacey	Yeah. I mean, when you were talking about it, kind of a more connected aerospace, I was picturing what Garmin has done with their Mark line. Absolutely. And they have, they have kind of a, a high end mark that I believe they call it the pilot or the aviator or something. And, you know, that's very geared towards kind of the aviation crowd. And I could see the aerospace being similar, kind of just following that lead and, and maybe even doing it, you know, kind of in more of a Breitling kind of style. So who knows? Yeah. Good. Uh, that's a good, uh, good conjecture.
Jason Heaton	Yeah. Thanks so much for that one, Michael. Let's jump to another one from Paul Andrews. which reflects a question that came up in the Slack and there was actually a pretty good conversation around it. You have to sell your entire collection of watches and spend the proceeds on just three watches, new or used, ones you own or not. You can even pretend you can buy it at retail, like Paul did with something like an Aquanaut. What are you getting? Keep up the good work. We will certainly do our best to keep up the good work. This is a tough question, Jason, because have you ever gone through the mental thing of trying to value your collection? I don't have an aquanaut in my collection in terms of value.
James Stacey	I did a while back. But your number would be quite a bit bigger than mine. Yeah. I've got a few kind of collectible Rolexes and things that I don't wear much that I've sort of bought as investments and keep at the bank. And, you know, certainly those would command some, some decent money. But, um, you know, when, as I was reading this question, I was thinking to myself that I'm not so much sure that I would just sell everything and buy three kind of heavy hitters or big money watches. The way I read this was, you know, he said you could keep ones you already own. And I think that's kind of the mindset I'm in these days is almost kind of a thinning out, uh, or in streamlining mode. And so I think it wouldn't even be a matter of, of selling them all and then buying three, it would be just getting rid of all but three of my watches. And that that's where it becomes difficult because there are certainly a couple of kind of no brainers, but there, there's kind of a handful of watches in my collection that I'm Really ambivalent about, you know, keeping or selling and some that are just out and out keepers. But, you know, I guess if I were to narrow it down to three watches from what I have, which is the route I would go, it would probably be, uh, the Pelagos FXD, which I wear almost nonstop. It's just, it's almost like a daily wear thing for me nowadays. My Rolex Submariner, the 140 60, I haven't worn. I don't remember the last time I wore it. You know, it's been geez, on a regular basis, close to a year or more. But again, 40th birthday gift. It's been through a lot with me. Definitely going to keep that one. Um, and then I need a third and I think I'd go vintage. I think I've got to keep one of my vintage pieces. And as much as I like the, the Breitling Navitimer, uh, that I got, you know, late last year, that's just such a special watch. I feel like I have more of a connection to my T graph, my vintage Doxa.
James Stacey	Yeah. Just because I have a good story behind it. I've kind of made a connection with the previous owner, the only other owner. So I think that would kind of cover a vintage kind of a modern everyday kind of tool watch. And then something more sentimental and personal in there in the Rolex. But boy, it's a tough, uh, it's a tough call. I mean, I think, you know, three watches, I think I could easily live with three watches. Cause I actually like fewer choices. It's just a matter of which three they're going to be. Um, and then, Hey, you know, if I'm going to sell everything, uh, I'm going to take that good, good chunk of change and, you know, rebuild the Land Rover or put, you know, throw a throw an LS motor in the defender or something like that, or I don't know, buy a vacation home or, or, you know, cottage somewhere or something. I'm not sure. But, uh, yeah, that's, that's the way I go. How about you?
Jason Heaton	Yeah. I mean, I, I found this question like super difficult in my mind. I think they're saying like, even if you were keeping, like, I think palmately, even if you were going to keep a watch that you had had to represent against the value of, of hypothetically selling everything and then reselecting that watch in some way. Right. Um, but you know, in my mind, I think that that gives me something like maybe, I don't know, 15, 15 to 18 grand was probably, and that's, that's being generous, I think. And for that money, like I'd like the collection I have to be honest, and I could get down to three, but it's going to be the Pelagos. I'd have, I think I'd have a lot of trouble selling the Explorer too. I just, I love it so much and still do. And, and, I have a pass with that watch. So like you, I've got a tutor and a Rolex, and then it would be a question of, of where the third one went. And I think that's where I would pivot. So let's say we're in, I don't know, I guess you're in for four for the Pelagos and probably more like eight for the, the Explorer, something like that. Maybe that's a little, maybe I'm being a little bit too, you know, too fair on my side, keeping those numbers kind of low. Um, so that's 12, which might lead me six. I'd probably see what I could get in an interesting vintage dress watch. Huh? Something totally different that would just like, cause I have a cool old chronograph Swiss, but like if I could get into a really pretty IWC or I don't think at six I could get into a strange old Patek. I think you'd have to hit 10 or 11 or 12 for that, which I don't think I have.
Filler word/soundbite	Yeah.
Jason Heaton	Um, maybe if we sold everything I could squeeze my way to 20 and then we're talking about, yeah. Could I find like, some weird old AP, some weird old Patek, like just something that's kind of fun and quirky. And if I'm dressing up or want to go in that sort of direction, I'd have an alternative to the dive watch and the travel watch. That was my thinking.
Filler word/soundbite	Yeah.
James Stacey	Yeah. Yeah. It's, uh, It's a, it's a fun thought exercise. I mean, there's, there's always kind of a version of that question that pops up from time to time, whether it's in a Q and a or on Slack. And, uh, yeah, yeah.
Jason Heaton	I think I have a different answer. Yeah. That kind of fall into this, this, uh, kind of vein as we go through these questions as well.
Filler word/soundbite	Yeah.
Jason Heaton	But for an entirely different topic point, we've got one from John Jay, who says I'm a newly certified diver. Talk me through BCDs. What do you like and why, when do you recommend investing in one, especially considering he'll have to travel for all of his diving? I've only used a vest style when doing my certification. He's pointing to be a warm water vacation diver, mostly Caribbean. What, what do you think the, the, I mean, my, my suggestion is rent, but.
James Stacey	Yeah, it depends on, I guess how much, uh, how much John plans to do. I think if you become like a really avid diver, but then he said warm water vacation diver. And I do think that renting is a good option. You know, it depends. I mean, if you're going once, maybe twice a year, renting is probably the way to go and avoid the. Yep. The packing, I think, you know, between fins and a BC, those are, those tend to take up the most space and luggage. You can always just throw a mask and, and whatever, you know, wetsuit or swimsuit or whatever in a bag and can almost even go carry on in that route. But let's say you do want to buy your own BCD. That's what I did for Costa Rica and for Mexico. You don't have to go super technical, you know, warm water. Vacation diving tends to be single, probably an aluminum 80 cubic foot tank. So you don't need something that'll carry a lot of weight or have a lot of lift to it. And you know, I've got a go-to that I travel with to the Caribbean and it was one of my kind of first BCs actually. I still have it and love it. And it was a, it was a Sequest balance. Now Sequest is no longer in business. They were bought by Aqualung and the balance I guess is no longer made by Aqualung. So I was kind of searching around for something that is in the same vein and it looks like Aqualung now makes something that is close. I guess it's called the, uh, uh, the pro HD compact BCD. It looks, it looks kind of similar. It's got integrated weights, which I think is nice for kind of vacation diving. You're not used to wearing a belt. Um, you know, belts are hadn't served their purpose, but I kind of prefer integrated weights, especially if you're just doing warm water diving, you're not carrying a lot of weight. Um, a few kind of D rings for clipping on a light or a gauge or something like that. Um, and then, I really strongly suggest back inflate over vest. I, I remember early on starting out with a vest BC, like so many of us do. And you know, the, the argument was that a vest will, when you're on the surface kind of keeps you more upright, whereas a black back inflate will push you forward. And I, I just have not found that to be the case. I think you can float nicely kind of on your back in a, in a back inflate BCD. And then underwater, the difference is just tremendous. It just gives you such better. kind of trim and kind of horizontal buoyancy. And so, um, yeah, I, I would recommend back in flight and something with integrated weights, something like this Aqua long pro HD, and we'll, we'll throw a link in the show notes. Cause I think it's a, it's a nice alternative. And then Ziegle makes one called the stiletto that, uh, it's kind of a similar style. So yeah, that, that'd be my recommendation. How about you?
Jason Heaton	So I own and did all of my diving on a stiletto. It's a really solid $850 option. They make an even lighter option from Ziegle called the Scout, which I think is about 500 bucks. It's very basic, but I don't know what more you could need when you're traveling. And it really comes down to if you're carrying a, if your plan is to check a bag so that you probably have room for fins, right? And theoretically a BCD, then sure. I could see bringing your own. Why not? But I think it really comes down to how many dives a year you're going to do. And, and, and that sort of thing. And because especially if you start to dive with shops that, you know, they use pretty standard scuba pro stuff in most of my experiences. And it's all pretty straightforward. I very seldom come across one that even looks that it's been used all that extensively because it's a dive shop. So they're constantly rinsing them off. They have to take care of them to get their investment out of them. It's not good for them if they don't work or if they they're not convenient. But I'm a huge fan of the Ziegle stuff. It's what I bought when I bought my first one. I still have my stiletto, but I went to Mexico. I went to Costa Rica. This is all in the last year. Did not bring my stiletto. I just rented. It's easier. It's faster. I think it also depends on whether or not you're going on vacation to go diving or diving is just part of your vacation, right? If you're going diving on vacation, like, and that's something you plan to do every year. Yeah, I would probably buy a BCD. And I like back inflate. I really liked the Ziegel stuff. The, the they're nicely made. I think they're a fair price. The, the other thing to consider is if you're often, not always, but often if you're buying regs as well, like let's say you're kidding up. Yeah. John is a newly certified diver. So if you're buying regs, typically you, your dive shop may have options where when you buy your regs, if you buy a BCD from the same brand, You might get free warranty service for some time. Like I think when I bought my scuba pro regs, I think if I had bought a scuba pro BCD, I would have gotten parts for the reg service for free for some time, maybe even for the life of the regs. I don't remember what the rule was. So you can save some money there and don't get me wrong. Servicing regs is not cheap. It's expensive. Um, but it also depends on how much you're diving, how often, How far do you want to go? Like in my mind, you need a mask, snorkel, fins, and a computer. The rest is eminently rentable. And there's even an argument that the fins are pretty rentable.
Filler word/soundbite	Yeah.
Jason Heaton	Yeah. Um, I I've gone both directions. I took fins, I bought and took fins to Mexico and ended up using the rental fins because the ones I bought were kind of inappropriate for the type of diving I was doing, which you can hear about if you've learned, you know, listen to previous episodes, but yeah, big, big fan of, uh, the, Ziegle stuff. And then I think if you want to take it a step further, uh, plate and wing can give you a lot of travel options because they're very light. And especially if you're going somewhere warm where you don't need a ton of weight, you can move to a lighter plate, whether that's aluminum or I've seen, you know, carbon even and compensate with weight on you on a weight belt.
James Stacey	Yeah. Lots of, lots of options, John. It's a, it's a brave new world for you. And, uh, and half the fun is kind of doing the research and buying your gear. So, uh, choose wisely and, uh, you know, hit us up or hit the look, you know, go to the diving channel and Slack and you'll get more, uh, more feedback than you might even hope for. So, yeah. Good, uh, good question.
Jason Heaton	Yeah. Fun question. All right. Next up, we've got a two-parter from Swimming Remy. First one is if watches didn't exist, what would you be doing with your life and career? And the second one is, what is our most memorable road trip in a car and why? Jason, if watches didn't exist, what do you, what do you figure you'd be doing as far as a career?
James Stacey	I mean, I think I'd do the same thing. I think, you know, writing is kind of my aptitude and my interest and kind of my passion and I'll be writing about something. And I, you know, before watches came along, I was, I was kind of heavy into the outdoor gear reviewing and kind of adventure and travel writing for, you know, gear patrol and some other places. I think, uh, you know, let's say watches, if watch didn't exist, I'm assuming they wouldn't have, uh, back then. And so I probably would have just stayed the course and kept writing about the other stuff that I, I cared about or was interested in. Yep. So that's what I do. And I, you know, certainly enjoy the fiction writing as well. It's not quite the living that, uh, that I can make writing about other stuff. So I definitely supplement it, but, um, yeah, yeah. I mean, TGN would take a different kind of tack. I suppose we, we talk about some of the topics that, that come up in, in our Q and A's and with some of our guests and things that maybe aren't watch associated. And I'd be, I'd be just fine with that. Um, so yeah, that's, that's what I do. How about you? I'm guessing you'd do probably automotive writing, right? Or something like along those lines.
Jason Heaton	I would think it would have been automotive or tech. Yeah. Yeah. Um, and I think if I hadn't, if I hadn't had had the last seven or eight years of like being very busy, um, I also think that like without the Hodinke element of essentially going to like a full, this is my, my one, I, this is what I do is the, you know, write about and talk about watches. Um, I, I could have also seen probably starting a YouTube channel about something tech or video games or, or cars, or maybe all of it, maybe it probably just would have been, you know, the, I don't think it would be like bizarro James to, to borrow the Superman term. Like, I don't think it would be the inverse. Yeah. It would just be a slight derivation that didn't include watches. I still think I would have ended up largely in the same place that I am now. We just would, I wouldn't be talking about watches. It would be more about, right. Yeah. Probably cars. Um, uh, you know, my first love as, as I like to say, as far as things go, uh, but yeah. And then I guess on that topic, what's your most memorable road trip in a car and, uh, why?
James Stacey	Yeah. I mean, it's still fresh in my memory. And that was, uh, a little less than a year ago when Ghoshani and I went to Scotland and borrowed an old Land Rover and just drove all over the highlands and islands. And, uh, it was just, it was such an incredible trip. That was really, the experience was really heightened by the vehicle we had, which, you know, I think, you know, certainly you can do a trip like that in, in kind of a rental kind of economy car, but there's just something about Being able to pull off the side of the road and pop the back and make a cup of tea on the side of the road and in the back of a Land Rover that, that really appealed and sort of lent itself to the overall experience. And we definitely, you know, we, we just drove some amazing roads. I can't say the roads, some of them necessarily lent themselves to, to kind of a underpowered old Land Rover. Um, that didn't handle quite like, uh, something a little more sporty, but certainly. Uh, was, was right up my alley and it's a trip I'll never forget. So that's, that's going to be what I'm going with. Nice. Yeah. What about you?
Jason Heaton	Bentley in the Alps or Bentley in the Alps is way up there for sure. That was the launch of the, the, you know, pre previous generation or half generation back, um, continental GT in the w 12. And that was out of Kitzbuhel, uh, through some amazing roads over part of gross Glockner. Uh, really, really, that was exceptional. The launch of the DBS Superleggera was something else that was in Southeastern Germany, right on the edge of Austria. That's where we, we got to see, you know, the Eagle's Nest and again, drive some truly incredible roads and a ridiculously powerful car. Uh, the car stuff, I mean, I just, I have so many, uh, that, and, and, you know, those are press trips. I'm not sure you could necessarily call them road trips. Some of them had a pretty decent distance. Uh, I did an incredible drive once for the launch of the DB11 V8, which had the, the Mercedes sourced four liter hot V twin turbo. And that was through, uh, up and down Palomar and then out to Borrego Springs outside of, um, like in California and then back and it just desert roads and a little bit of mountain driving. I'd also say like basically any time that I had a car and got up early and went out to the, the, uh, canyons. outside of Los Angeles. So whether that's, uh, you know, I like, um, I'm going to get these naming wrong. People correct me every time no matter how I say it. So like stunt Latigo or Latigo up to you. Um, there's like a whole route through there and like that route I did in, I've done in multiple cars, inappropriate cars. And then more recently, like in a Miata and yeah, a fourth gen Miata. And it was like perfect for those roads. Um, but then as you know, a McLaren 720s on Angeles Crest Highway, when you're alone on a Thursday morning, just after sunup, that's, that's pretty good. And it's, it's like a fairly intense 25 minutes. Yeah. Uh, and then you're, you're, you're not at the top by that part. You're, you know, at least most of the way, if not, it depends on how fast you drive. I've, I've got friends who do it in a faster time, but, uh, certainly faster than me. Um, but then, you know, you're up at, at Newcomb's ranch and you turn around and come back down the Hill. Uh, those, those have always been great experiences. And then the last one, and kind of the first one that jumped to my mind was in one of the slowest vehicles I've ever driven. I had the opportunity, uh, with Sarah and with Jason and Gashani to do a photo shoot, uh, like a sponsored photo shoot kind of, uh, thing in Tobermory. Uh, it's on Hodinkee now it's called breathing. Your own air was produced by the four of us. Sarah did most of the production work. I did most of the photography and if it's underwater, Jason Gashani handled that part. I flew a drone while they dove in some really beautiful water. We had a really nice time. It was about as relaxed and fun as a piece of product that I'm very proud of has ever been. I think the work is really good. And, uh, and, and, and I'm, like I said, I'm quite proud of it, but we, for the photo shoot, we wanted a VW van, like a camper van, a Vanagon or similar. Yeah. And we rented one from a guy here in Toronto and drove it up to Tobermory. And that's not a big stretch, except that the rental agreement basically said like, we'd appreciate it if you didn't do more than a hundred kph. Sure. And a lot of the road up to Tobermory is on a 400 series highway. Not all of it, certainly, but a good portion of it. So we had to avoid that where the average speed is going to be close to like 115, 120. You just be in the way. Yeah. And that really stresses me out being in the way in general in life really stresses me out, but doing it in a car drives me nuts. So we took back roads the whole way up. What's maybe a three and a half hour, four and a half hour drive, something like that took us about double that, but we had such a good time. Um, little three speed in this van, not very fast. If you weren't careful, it ran out of battery. Like while you were putting gas in it and to learn about jumping it and that kind of stuff. a very photogenic van. Uh, also driving something like that is a little bit driving like a, like a beetle in some ways where you get a lot of slack. Um, it's a very friendly vehicle on the road. Yeah. So people give you a lot of, you know, they don't mind if you pull out and you're not quite going fast enough and they just pass you. It's not that big a deal. Yeah. So if you're going to be in the way it is an okay vehicle for that. But we drove up, listened to Warren's Yvonne, uh, you know, on a old school radio in that thing. And, uh, just had a, had a really nice time. And, and I, you know, I, I, look back fondly on both ends of that route, both going up and coming back and seeing it in the photos is also fun too.
James Stacey	Yeah. Yeah. I forgot about that trip. That was, uh, that was fun. And that, that was a really cool vehicle. I've, I've long thought that if, if, you know, we're to go a different route with vehicles, that would be, that would be kind of a fun direction to go is to get one of those.
Jason Heaton	And yeah, I could see you having one of those for sure. Yeah. Yeah. So thank you very much for that question. Swimming Remy. That's a good one. Next up, we've got one that I think can actually be pretty quick. Uh, this is from Kent who asks, What is your shoe tying technique slash not? Has it changed from what you learned as a kid? Are you satisfied, satisfied with the security slash ease of tying and untying? I can go real quick. I still tie it like I'm a five-year-old. Two bunny ears, loop them over, keep moving. Yep. But I know that occasionally someone will see me tie my shoes and they'll go like, like, are you seriously tying your shoes like a five-year-old? And yes, I am.
James Stacey	I didn't even know there were different techniques and I'm with you. I've tied them the same that I first learned. Um, I will right after this, I'm going to have to jump on YouTube and start looking into other techniques. Not that I want to change and I will not change, but I'm just curious now. This is fascinating. It's like a whole new world opening up. So yeah.
Jason Heaton	Not that I want to change and I will not change.
James Stacey	Right. I can see this now becoming like that kind of a extended Slack channel, uh, discussion. We're going to get people, uh, posting videos and stuff, but yeah.
Jason Heaton	All right, we've definitely got time for at least one more. So let's jump into a little bit of a complex one from Kyle, who says, while it's easy to suffer the delusion that we know you, Jason and James really well, there's certainly a lot we don't know about you. A tidbit about James came up in a recent episode that made that surprisingly clear. I clarified this with Kyle in the slack. This was my prolonged and aggressive allergic reaction to the second or third COVID shot, which I didn't talk about on the show because it felt like complaining, but it did suck. Carrying on the question, I work with kids in nature and sometimes we play a game called if you really knew me, it's simple enough. Start by saying if you really knew me, you'd know and then complete the sentence and elaborate as desired. Three to six rounds could each be your fun way for you to share more about yourselves or your to your comfort level, of course, and for your listeners to learn something new about you. I don't know if we need to do six rounds. We could do a couple of these each. You know, Jason, I've been buddies for a long time, but I would say that we're both kind of um, pretty reserved kind of private guys, uh, to the most part. And, uh, that's why we made a podcast, which is mostly talking about the things that interest us rather than the things that are affecting us. Yeah. Yeah. I guess to kick it off, I'm, I'm, I'm happy to, to break the ice on this one. I think, I think the, the thing that people, even people who become friends of mine find maybe surprising given how public I can be is if you really knew me, you know, I'm a deeply private person. You know, people who listen to the show know that I've, I don't think I've ever said my kid's names on the show. I like a strong separation between kind of what is shared and what I'm comfortable sharing and then what I have. So yeah, if I'm going through a problem and certainly I've had problems much more significant than a pretty bad allergic reaction to a shot while we made the podcast, I just, you know, if it doesn't feel like entertainment for the podcast, I leave it out. I do believe that what we are making here is should at least be entertaining. Yeah. And like, I'm not saying we're hitting 10 out of 10 here. We're not showmen. We were asked to sing and dance and we didn't. So, I mean, there's that. But yeah, I consider myself, and as I get older, it gets worse. I find Instagram really kind of feels like a violation of my personal boundaries a lot. And yeah, I like to share some things and keep a lot of other things pretty close to the chest. I guess that's where I would start.
James Stacey	Yeah. And you know, this was a fun question, but I think your first answer made it made me think a little more philosophically about it. And I think it can be a little bit jarring when, uh, I'll meet somebody that, uh, you know, that listens to the podcast or has read some of my stories, whatever. And then they, they say something back to me that they know about me that I'm kind of struck by, Oh boy, I didn't realize I shared that. Or, or they, I didn't realize it was public knowledge, but on the other side of that, I do feel that in many ways, kind of being, opening up to a certain degree and showing some vulnerability and maybe talking about personal challenges can be a way to help other people as well. And I've gotten that feedback. And I think I do share a little more on my sub stack that I write. I've talked about some of my challenges in the past and present, but yeah, I'm, I'm kind of with you. I think, you know, certain things kind of stay, stay behind closed doors, so to speak, but you know, to kind of kick this off on my end in terms of kind of keeping it light and fun. I would say, you know, Kyle, if you really knew me, uh, you would know that I am fairly deathly afraid of rodents. I, I, I'm, if I see a mouse in the house or at a cabin or in a campsite, it, it's, it's very preoccupying for me to the point where I'll, I'll ask a Shawnee to, to take care of it for me. So, um, squirrels, I think I'm, I'm kind of okay with, but if they get a little too aggressive, uh, it does kind of freak me out. But, um, Yeah. I'll, I'll dive with sharks, but if I see a mouse in the house, I, uh, I kind of get freaked out.
Jason Heaton	I knew that you didn't like rodents. I didn't know it was to that extent.
James Stacey	Yeah. Yeah. I think I must've inherited it. I know my grandmother was terrified, like to the point of jumping up on a chair and my mom kind of inherited that. And I must've gotten it from, from her because my, my dad is, has no problem dispatching rodents that he sees. Um, but, uh, yeah.
Jason Heaton	Now I feel bad that years ago, did I send you the video of the squirrel breaking into my house and stealing my PETA?
James Stacey	No, you didn't. Thank you for not doing that.
Jason Heaton	So I don't even think of squirrels as rodents, but of course they are. Why would that be different? Yeah, right. They're just like a bit like a big mouse. I get it. Okay. Yeah, that makes sense. I did have a mouse. I used to leave, or I used to leave my window open and I had like a plate of hummus and pita and pepperoni sticks and that kind of stuff. And I left my room, probably get a soda or something and came back and a squirrel who I called Reggie too, first Reggie got hit by a car, sadly, but Reggie too had come in, took a piece of PETA and then was running around my bedroom with it. And, uh, and I was trying, I had the wherewithal to start a video on my phone, but I chased him out of the house and then he never really came back after that. I think I might, maybe, maybe he, I probably would have given him PETA. I liked him quite a bit. He was a cute all black one with like real bushy fur. Oh, sure. Yeah. I didn't know. I didn't know you were that, uh, that deep into, uh, into a phobia of that. That's interesting. Yeah.
Filler word/soundbite	Yeah.
Jason Heaton	Yeah. I guess on the, I can, I can follow that to some extent. I don't like, or if you really knew me, you'd know, and this is like people who really know me. I just don't talk about it cause it bugs me so much. I don't like, like insects. Ah, okay. Interesting. Um, specifically I don't like, like, uh, infestations.
Filler word/soundbite	Oh yeah.
Jason Heaton	I don't mind bees. I don't mind a spider. Don't mind spiders at all. Really. I mean, I guess a big one would, I don't want to like fall asleep if I know it's in the room or whatever.
Filler word/soundbite	Yeah.
Jason Heaton	But I feel again, I feel the same way about a squirrel and I like squirrels. I just don't want a squirrel touching me while I'm sleeping. Yeah. But yeah, I don't, I don't like, you know, big problem with mosquitoes, uh, clouds of bugs, all that kind of stuff. Not, not for me. It's worse than a phobia. I would say it's like debilitating. Interesting. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Oh yeah. And, and a real guy who goes in and out of a lot of hotels got a real thing for bed bugs. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, real, real fear of, of that happening. I, I, I'm that weirdo that goes in, everything goes in the bathtub. Wow. The room gets looked over. I will go back down to the front desk. I will fly. I'll fly to walk out of a hotel and just be like, Oh, I never checked in.
Filler word/soundbite	Yeah.
Jason Heaton	Yeah. Um, and so that kind of stuff. So yeah, it's like not even, I'm so uncomfortable even speaking about it.
James Stacey	Wow. Okay. Um, well I have a second one. Um, if you really knew me, you'd know that, um, back in my twenties, I used to go door to door selling framed pencil sketches of people's houses that I did. So no idea. That's awesome. It wasn't a very successful career move for me. Um, I, I used to like to draw quite a bit and I was fairly good at it and I don't remember why. Um, I think I had a connection in the real estate business and thought it would be kind of a good idea to And, and since then I've, I've realized that I remember when we bought our house, this is quite a few years ago now, the agent, when we closed on the house, um, gave us as a gift, a framed sketch of our house that someone had done. And I, it reminded me that I had, I did that very briefly, um, many years ago. So it was, it was not a successful business venture on my part. Um, but, uh, yeah, I used to, I used to go door to door and ask people if they wanted me to draw their house and give them a framed, framed, uh, uh, image of it. So yeah, kind of interesting. Yeah.
Jason Heaton	That's brand new to me.
Filler word/soundbite	Very cool. Yeah.
Jason Heaton	I've seen some of that stuff like on Instagram where people's like snap a photo of somebody in public and then print it out on a little phone. Or there's a guy, a pretty famous guy that does it for cars. Huh? He'll find like a really interesting car on the street, snap a few photos. He prints them out in his trunk, puts together like a little package and then leaves it under their windshield. Oh wow. It's, it's, I think it's a really kind of sweet, thoughtful sort of cool thing. Like, especially for like, maybe there's not a, specific community for a home in your neighborhood, but for cars, there's community and Instagram and that kind of stuff. So it's, it's kind of fun. I get that. I get the vibe for sure. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Well, that's a pair each. I'm sure we can do another round of this sometime in the future, but, um, this also might be something to carry on into the slack. Uh, but yeah, you've got a four new tidbits about, uh, Jason and I, and certainly, uh, one brand new to me for, uh, for Jason, which is awesome. Very cool. Yeah. Um, let's see, you want to try one more?
James Stacey	Yeah, we can do one more.
Jason Heaton	All right, to close out this round of the crew and a we've got one from Nate Phipps, who says secondary market prices come up a bit when you talk about sourcing watches for your brand based episodes. For me, many, if not most of the watches I own have only been justified at their secondary market prices. And it's pretty crazy the price you can get many desirable watches for when you move into the secondary market. So my question is, how do you think about secondary versus retail? And why does the conversation about resale values and the better pricing, making watches more accessible, not generally appear in major publications and other industry conversation?
James Stacey	Yeah. What do you think about that?
Jason Heaton	Yeah. I would say we talk extensively about buying things secondhand and, and obviously we support a buy sell. So I'm very much on the same side about this. And I would also say at least obviously my purview is more in the span, you know, is, is left and right. Houdinki when it comes to watch media. And I think there's a lot of content on Houdinki about what watches cost right now, the value of secondary watches, value proposition of watches. And often if there is a big delta, whether it's a plus or minus, sometimes watches cost more in the secondary market, especially the types of watches that people are fascinated about. Those two go together because the fascination is what fuels the increased prices. So there's definitely a lot of times where we might bring up a Rolex or a Patek or something and then say, like, you can't get it. And even if you could, it'll cost this much. but there's a lot of price analysis available in the market. I think, I think this is part of industry conversations, or at least from my, my perspective, it absolutely is, especially with the continued ability for eBay to ratchet up into a pretty safe and reliable and backed way of buying secondhand watches. And then obviously Crown and Caliber and Corona 24 and all the big players in the space. And then the layer even, I guess, below or adjacent to that, where you're buying directly from another person like a sales forums or watch recon and all that kind of thing. I think this is absolutely part of the mind share in, in watches. Uh, and, and certainly a lot of the watches that I own and, and certainly the more expensive ones have been bought secondhand. So I certainly agree with the assertion of, of the value, but less so that there isn't more of a conversation about it. It feels like something we talk about a lot. Um, especially when there's a considerable Delta up or down from the list price.
James Stacey	Yeah, I think, you know, I've, I've, I can probably count on one hand, the number of watches I've bought, you know, brand new from a dealer in a, in the box. Um, so, you know, pre-owned has kind of been my, my world for as long as I've been into watches, but I do think that in order to kind of focus about it, um, you have to, you'd have to be constantly looking at pricing of pre-owned watches and it's just so much. uh, easier, especially kind of your, if for those in the media around watches, unless that's your kind of purview or that's your assignment is to, to look at pre-owned pricing is, you know, you can clearly go to any, any website nowadays for most brands and just see what the, what the MSRP is for it. So that's, I think why it's kind of more front and center, but I do agree with you, James. I, you know, I feel like I've seen, especially in the past year, a lot more attention placed on pre-owned pricing and how it's affecting even new watch pricing and you know, Rolex is on the downturn or, you know, Patek or whatever, whether it's auctions or, or just pre-owned.
Jason Heaton	It's all charted now.
James Stacey	Yeah. Yeah. So yeah. Interesting question. We, that kind of wraps up a kind of a good first round. We didn't get to as many as I thought we did. I think, you know, that that's a testament to the interesting nature of these questions. Yeah. We appreciate everybody who kind of popped those questions into Slack. We gave you less than 24 hours to do that and, and you delivered. We've got a lot more to go.
Jason Heaton	Yeah. I had to kind of wait until the evening. You know, I think, I think we, we gave like 16 or 17 hours, something like that, uh, before we had to record it just, just so that it wasn't like multiple hundreds of questions. I think we got like 52 questions, something like that in the record. Uh, so we got through a chunk of them today, but we are well over an hour at this point. So just with the ability for me to edit it, have it ready for Thursday, we are going to move on to a final notes. I have two, so I guess I should probably throw in. uh, the first one and we'll do a little sandwich with yours as well. Sure. So yeah, first up for me for final notes this week is a podcast called the prestige TV podcast from the ringer. And we've got a pretty extensive conversation going on in slack about, uh, true detective season four. Uh, not everyone is a fan. Some people are enjoying it. Some not. And that's of course, that's the way TV goes. It is what it is. I'm very much enjoying the show and it could be that I'm, you know, enjoying its connections to season one, which is my favorite season of television ever made. But if you want to go a little bit deeper, the Prestige TV podcast does a handful of shows, but they're doing weekly in-depth chats about this past episode of True Detective. So episode four has kind of just launched and they have the episode for episode four, which I'm looking forward to listening sometime today. Simple Podcast kind of digs into the myth, the lore of True Detective. I mean, like I said, they have other shows that they talk about. But, you know, if you're going to hit the true detective episodes, it's a lot about the myth, the lore kind of digging into some of the online theories about what's happening. A lot of input from interviews by the show creator and those responsible for making the show and that kind of thing. So I'm enjoying it. It gives me like another layer to chit chat about with people about the show. And sometimes I flat out miss stuff, you know, watching them on flights. Maybe you get interrupted. Maybe you're paying attention to two things at once and you go like, oh, I absolutely miss that. you know, half a frame or split second view of something and that sort of thing. So that's the prestige TV podcast from the ringer. That's the same group that makes the rewatchables, one of my favorite podcasts. Uh, they make a lot of podcasts and so far I haven't really come across any that I didn't like as long as I was connected to the content. You know, I've said in the past that rewatchables, it's, I don't think it's necessarily a podcast where someone listens to absolutely every single episode. If you know the movie or are prepared to go ahead and watch the movie, then the episode has this great value because it's fresh in your memory and it's a commentary and that sort of thing.
James Stacey	You know, if there's one thing that, that I've learned from you, um, over, you know, our time doing, doing TGN, it's, it's the, this whole kind of subculture or, or separate industry, whether it's podcasts or writing or whatever about, uh, focusing on films and TV shows and kind of that, that universe of people really critically, uh, assessing shows and discussing them. And I think it's fascinating. I think it's, look, people look at what we do and how can you talk about watches every week or write about watches? And I think it's the same and it's probably a bit more of a fertile ground to, to go over when it comes to film and television because there's just so much you can dig into. And I think it's a, it's kind of a really neat sort of subculture or niche pursuit.
Jason Heaton	So yeah. And the, the, the, the really deep kind of consideration of the lore, the theories, all of that, like, Part of that whole world is because of the first season of True Detective. It's not the only one. Mad Men had a really strong undercurrent of commentary and fan theories and that sort of thing. And it's, it's not a brand new Breaking Bad as well, but definitely because of the sort of, I don't want to say spiritual, but metaphysical element that they bring into True Detective where you're presented with a lot of stuff that's pseudo horror. Yeah. And then often it's, it's explained in some manner in a rational sense, by the end of the show, we'll see if that's the case for season four. Um, I, I think it leads to a lot of people drawing, pulling at little threads and, and, and all this sort of stuff. And certainly season one is ripe for that, that, you know, it's, it, it, it is directly rooted in specific texts and, and other pieces of media that have existed for some time. Uh, I don't want to give anything away to someone who might be just getting into season one or, or hasn't, but you can go very deep on that season and its connection to strange fiction and pre-horror. Sure. And Kierkegaardian philosophy and all this sort of stuff. And I have a really good time with that. It's a rabbit hole. Uh, that's very enjoyable. And because I enjoyed the first season so much that all that extra content feels like a way to kind of drag out a process that really only lasted a few episodes for me.
James Stacey	Yeah. Yeah. I can see that. Yeah. And it reminds me, I just ran across something, maybe I'll have it in a future final notes, but there's a guy who's kind of big in the James Bond community who is looking at Casino Royale minute by minute. And they're doing, I don't know if it's a podcast, I haven't dug into it yet, but they're taking every single minute of the film and breaking it down. You know, the action, the scenery, the clothing, the, you know, what it means to the plot, et cetera. I haven't dug into that quite yet. And if I do and find it interesting, I'll definitely put it in a future final notes.
Jason Heaton	I also just absolutely adore that type of creativity for a podcast, whether it's one minute of a movie or you get, you know, um, there was the Gilmore boys, I think it was called. And it was a couple of guys that went through the entirety of the Gilmore girls. And I think every episode was for per episode of the show, which went for a long time. And then the other one that always makes me giggle every single time they do it, is have, I'm sure you haven't, but I've, I've loved this podcast for years called my brother, my brother and me there, you know, they've been doing it for such a long time at this point, they're six, seven, 800 episodes in something like that. But they do an annual episode called till death do us Blart where they watch Paul Blart mall cop once a year forever.
James Stacey	Oh my gosh.
Jason Heaton	So they've been doing it since 2015. Oh my gosh. And these are three of the funniest guys out there. Like I just, I absolutely love the, the three McElroy brothers and they have guests on. So, uh, they review the film, Paul Blart, Mall Cop 2, every American Thanksgiving from now until the end of linear time. So it's, uh, I can't even, I can't even sit here and honestly tell you that I've listened to all of them. I think I've listened to maybe three of them, but it's, it is genuine. I just love that, that type of creativity because you do anything you want with a podcast. Yeah. And they have, I mean, their, their standard podcast is a fake advice show. People write in questions or they pull questions from Yahoo answers or whatever, and they offer dumb advice. Yeah. And that's been going for like eight or nine years. That's great. Oh, that's great. But yeah, prestige TV podcast from the ringer. I'm a big fan of the ringer and what they get into. Um, and, and I think if you, if a show that you're watching is, is being captured by this, it gives you another layer, a little bit more to enjoy about the show.
James Stacey	Yeah. Good one. Well, speaking of TV and good TV, um, I stumbled upon a show recently. Um, it's a remake of a, of an old film, a Michael Caine movie from, I believe the late sixties, early seventies. And, um, it's a series called the Ipcrest file. Uh, this is based on a book, a novel by Len Dayton, who was a, a British author of kind of spy thrillers around the same time, kind of the Bond films were enjoying peak popularity back in the sixties. And it's a totally different take. on kind of spy thrillers. I would almost say it's more of a precursor to something along the lines of slow horses. It's a little bit more, there's a little more humor, a little more kind of sly tongue in cheek. It's not overly serious, but it's a very good plot. And this is, I believe it's a six part series and I'm on, I finished three episodes and it's on ITV, which is a British network, British channel or website if you will. And so I'm watching it through a VPN. I use a surf shark for anyone interested and Um, it's really good. It stars a Joe Cole. Uh, some people might remember him from, from a few other films and shows that he's been in. Uh, Lucy Boynton, uh, is it plays a leading role as well. And it's, it's, it's clever. It takes place in the early sixties, uh, in London. And then there's some scenes, some bits in Berlin and Beirut. Okay. Um, and it's funny because I, it's, it's cleverly done. It's stylishly shot. The soundtrack is good. the plot is fantastic. It truly feels, if you're a fan of slow horses and kind of the whole James Bond universe, I think this sort of merges the two and it's, it's just kind of delicious watching. I love that kind of early sixties style, you know, some great cars and cool clothing and great music and, uh, kind of globetrotting adventure. And, um, nice. Yeah, it's good. So the Ipcrest file, maybe some of our British listeners have seen this, uh, you know, in your own, kind of country's space. Um, but if you, if you aren't in, in the UK and, and want to watch it on ITV, you'll need a VPN, which isn't too difficult to figure out. And, uh, I recommend it. The IP address file, ITV.
Jason Heaton	Nice. Very cool. Sounds awesome. All right. All right. For my last one, this is, uh, actually the Slack reminded me, I got these for Christmas from Sarah and then the Slack reminded me because other people seem to have gotten them around Christmas or at the same time. And it's these, uh, they're Yeti mugs, but they're like espresso sized. Oh yeah. So they have the form and shape of a big tumbler mug, but they're 177 ML. So it just barely takes, uh, it's enough for a double shot of espresso. And I've got them in camp green. They have a ceramic lining, which is really nice. The dishwasher safe and they they're stackable. And I then added, um, I think the Yeti like wine cup has a sippy lid for it, but you can buy that separately and it fits in these and I can just like It just disappears into the cup holder in the Jeep. Oh, nice. It's a little tiny mug. I can put a double, double espresso in it, which is pretty much all I drink at home. Uh, just one after the other, uh, they come in 118 ML and 177. The 18 doesn't have a 118 doesn't have like a finger. You wouldn't call it a hand grip, but like a finger loop. Yeah. Whereas the 177 has the loop. I really like these. They're a fun gift. If you know someone in your life really enjoys their espresso, Uh, that I think it's good. I think it would be too small for much else. Like I don't, I'm probably not enough room for an Americano, um, and, or like a cappuccino or something like that. I guess you could do a shot or two, a whiskey would fit in there. Okay. Yeah. If that's more your speed, uh, and certainly camping, you could do both from one cup, which is nice, but yeah, I absolutely love these. And then I, I thankfully somebody in the, in the Slack had posted a shot of, uh, of theirs and it reminded me to get them on a, on a final note.
James Stacey	Yeah, these are cool. And they come in some fun colors too. There's like red and turquoise and dark blue and yeah, very nice.
Jason Heaton	Yeah, for sure. Always fun. And yeti stuff. So it just feels, you know, high quality. And these, these little miniature ones are such kind of a giggle. My girls think they're really funny. So yeah, there's an episode.
James Stacey	All right. Well, thanks to everyone who sent in questions via the Slack on such short notice. So we've got another good crop to do next time around after next week's episode, which we have a fun guest lined up. So stay tuned for that, but For now, thanks so much for listening. If you want to subscribe to The Show Notes, get into the comments for each episode, or consider supporting TGN directly, and maybe even grab a new TGN signed NATO strap, please visit thegraynado.com. Music throughout is Siesta by Jazzar via the Free Music Archive.
Jason Heaton	And we leave you with this quote from Francis Bacon, who said, a prudent question is one half of wisdom.