The Grey NATO – 270 – Legendary Ice Climber Will Gadd On Adventure, Risk, and Becoming A Watch Ambassador
Published on Thu, 01 Feb 2024 06:00:00 -0500
Synopsis
The podcast features a fascinating conversation with Will Gadd, a renowned adventurer and athlete known for his ice climbing exploits. He discusses his background, the appeal of extreme sports, maintaining longevity, managing risk as he's gotten older, his work raising awareness about climate change and melting glaciers through his partnership with Citizen Watch Company, and his impressions of the watch world. It's an insightful look into the mindset and experiences of an outdoor icon.
At the end, the hosts share podcast and gear recommendations - Jason talks about a new podcast from polar explorer Ben Saunders, while James discusses a useful strap pouch addition for his travel backpack.
Links
Transcript
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| James Stacey | Hello, and welcome to another episode of the Graynado. It's a loose discussion of travel, adventure, diving, driving gear, and most certainly watches. This is episode 270. And it's proudly brought to you by the always growing TGN supporter crew. We thank you all so much for your continued support. And if you're listening and would like to consider supporting the show, please visit thegraynado.com for more details. My name is of course, James Stacy, and I'm joined as ever by my friend and co host Jason Heaton. Jason, how are we doing today? |
| Jason Heaton | Doing pretty well. And boy, as you read 270, I was thinking, uh, before the year's out, we will be, uh, we'll be over 300 episodes. Pretty wild. Yet another milestone. Yeah. Pretty crazy. Well on this end, we're, um, it's, it's been, again, it's the, the, the winter that never arrived, uh, here it's, uh, pushing man 50 Fahrenheit tomorrow, which is, you know, like 12 or I don't know, something centigrade sort of green grass. And, uh, the sun was out yesterday. It's, it's, it's a very strange, Uh, winter, and it was kind of a, an interesting tie in with, with our discussion with our guest, uh, we'll get today, which we'll get to in a bit, but, um, certainly, um, was no doubt that, that this is a, an anomalous year. Um, and while it's been a bit of a boon for my, my training, uh, I was actually on my bike a couple of days ago and I will be later this week again. On the downside, you know, the, the ice diving festival is supposed to happen in a month and I just don't see how they're going to be able to pull that off. Uh, the, the lakes just barely froze in time for this. pond hockey tournament that they have down the street at the lake near my house. And then they, they had to pull the plug on the second week of it. Cause, uh, cause it got warm again. So not great. I haven't been on my skis this winter, but, uh, yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm doing my best to enjoy what has turned out to be a really strange winter here. How about you? Have you had, you've had similar there or you you've had a bit more snow than us maybe. |
| James Stacey | Yeah. I mean, we we've had some snow, not, not really the extent to which I thought we would get, you know, just compared to other years recently. Yeah. February is the tough one in Ontario. Typically that's when we get the most and the coldest. So we'll see if it's a weird February or if it's one like last year where it's actually kind of sunny but cold and a ton of snow. We'll just see. |
| Jason Heaton | And did you get a chance to see some sun yesterday? You were down in Florida, right? |
| James Stacey | I was, yeah. So Sunday. |
| Jason Heaton | For a few hours. |
| James Stacey | I was there for about 16 hours in Jacksonville to film Talking Watches. I don't think I'm supposed to say definitely not who because that's a surprise. He's rad. It went really well. I'm very much looking forward to seeing the tape. It was a very easy and fun process with a cool automotive tie in. But I was in Jacksonville. I left Sunday afternoon and I got back yesterday evening. So I was there for you can't fly direct So through Houston on the way there, um, and then through Chicago on the way home, both flights ended up being kind of delayed and a bit late and that kind of thing. So I got to the hotel in Jacksonville very late or very early morning. Uh, went to bed as quickly as I could and then got up to go shoot this thing and then left from there for the airport. So it was a quick one. Uh, I'm home for, you know, today. And then tomorrow I go to New York city for a preview for some Oris novelties that are coming up. Nice. So I'll get to see the rest of the Houdinki team to do that. The thing that stood out for this trip is, I think people who listen to every episode will remember, for the Christmas gift you got me this year was that Dyneema Bullet Go Ruck. Yeah. So it's a 15 liter small bag, all Dyneema. And I took it to Costa Rica and just really loved it. It's the right size for sort of everyday sort of bag. It's quite small. It's actually doesn't... It's small enough that the laptop sleeve doesn't even fit a 16 inch MacBook, you'd need something smaller. So it's a nice iPad solution, that sort of thing. It's probably not even made for a laptop, it's probably made for a plate or a bladder or something like that. But after the experience in Costa Rica, I knew I really wanted to make this the only bag that I think about. I have a lot of bags, but this is kind of a Definitely a buy once, cry once, thank you very much for the gift, of course, solution to an everyday bag. So when I went to Florida, I knew that I wanted to take this bag and one change of clothes. I didn't have to bring extra shoes. In this scenario, I didn't even need to bring a camera, so really light packing for me. And I added a couple... I made a couple of tweaks to the bag that we'll talk about in final notes, because one of them is an inexpensive product that I'm super happy with. but I added a couple of things to the bag just to make it a little bit more tuned for travel versus just walking around a city or something like that. And yeah, it was so freeing to travel with not only just a bag, I occasionally do just a bag, but to be able to travel with such a small bag was incredible. On and off of flights, no sweat, not worried about this or that, one charger, one USB-C cable, it kept it really light and easy. And I think I'm going to attempt, I have, it's three days in New York, but really it's one day because like whatever I go down in tomorrow, I can wear for the whole day. So it's one full change of clothing and then I'm flying home on Friday. So I do need a camera. So we're going to see how much I can really get in this bag because if I can do the New York trip with just a backpack, I think that's a real win for me. That's been really good. It's just so, so nice to have some light travel. And then, you know, last week I had a chance to hang out with Josh Perez, who we had on the show quite a long time ago. And he's doing some work with a clothing brand. He's doing like some consulting and sort of marketing work with a clothing brand called Foreign Rider. I don't know if you're aware of this brand. I wasn't until Josh kind of explained, like introduced me to the brand some time ago. |
| Unknown | Yeah. |
| James Stacey | We had some lunch and then we went down to foreign writers kind of boutique or shop, um, in the Queen West area of, uh, of Toronto. And, uh, Josh hooked me up with, uh, with a couple different pieces of clothing, uh, including a really fantastic hoodie. If you're on the Slack, you'll know, I was asking about hoodies. So the timing came out nicely. It's a very light, very soft, very comfortable hoodie. And I'll put the links to this, especially the pants, which I'll put in the show notes. I'm super impressed with really light, really comfortable, a little stretchy, wears like jeans, not crazy expensive, like not the price point of an outlier, for example. Yeah. Kind of a level down from that. So I'm testing a little bit of their stuff. You know, they didn't ask me to talk about it or that kind of thing. It was just, you know, Josh made the hookup while we were at the store and, you know, I didn't pay for the clothing to be fair. But yeah, kind of running that through its paces. I got a nice wax jacket and a few other pieces like that. So That's been nice. And for travel, man, a light pair of pants when you're going from winter here down to, you know, it actually wasn't very warm in Florida, to be fair. It was nice and sunny, which I liked. I actually walked from the hotel to where we did the shoot. But it was like 10 Celsius when I got up. So really not that warm at all, but a beautiful day. And it was definitely nice to feel the sun directly on my skin rather than, you know, filtered through the kind of snowy clouds that we've had in Toronto. That's been my last couple of days. And then I get back Friday and then next Wednesday I go to Aspen for ice race. So it's, it's pretty busy for the first half of February, you know, three, three trips to different parts and, uh, and lots of work to keep up on and that sort of thing. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. And it makes for, makes for interesting chit chat here on the show. I've been largely homebound here for the past, uh, past couple of months. Um, and I think for the foreseeable future until April, I was pleased to see that I got invited to a watches and wonders Geneva, which it's been a while since I've been over there. In fact, I've never been to a watches and wonders. Last time I was in Geneva was for the days of SIHH pre pandemic. So, uh, looking forward to seeing you and, and catching up with, with old chums from the, from the industry and seeing some of the watches. I'm excited to see what, what Bramont's got in store. You know, they've been kind of hyped up a lot all over the place, uh, talking about kind of the, the reboot of the brand and of course our friends at Tudor, et cetera. So that's the next thing on my calendar in terms of, uh, terms of travel. |
| James Stacey | I currently have 18 emails in my inbox for booking more meetings. So that should be fun to get to right after this call. But I'm pumped to see you in Geneva. It's been years of going there. I guess it would have been 18 or 19 would have been the last year that you went. I don't remember when they officially became Watches and Wonders. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah, I think it was 2018 because I don't think I went in 2019. But I was looking through my phone, kind of cleaning it up because I was running out of space. And I was looking through some old photos and uh, found that one that was taken of us at, um, Panda, a band of Paki, the, the fondue place. You and I were leaning over a table. It was looking young and fresh. And, uh, you know, it was that late night. It was kind of icy on the, on the pier there. Super icy. Yeah. Um, yeah, good, good times. That was a, that was a good memory. And fortunately this time around it's in April rather than January, which is always so dark and cold in Geneva. So it'd be kind of fun to go there in the spring. |
| James Stacey | Yeah, I think it's smart for them to continually push the show into proper spring. It just makes the city a lot more welcoming to get around because it is a walkable city. If you want to go from wherever your hotel is, the Envy, the Wilson, whatever, over to Beau Revage to see Doxa, you could take a car, absolutely. And if it's in January, I'd probably recommend it because the wind that comes off Lake Geneva is icy, real cold. Um, but yeah, last year we were able to walk around and see a bunch of brands in the afternoon. Like, you know, you usually end up with a day or so where you don't go to the fair proper to pal expo. Yeah. And that's when I saw Kenneth from Arkin and I saw Zen at, um, the time to watch. So there's lots of stuff to do around the city and it's so much nicer to, you know, I remember last year I did Zen and then I was going to Jorn and that's quite a distance. So you have to take a car, but you know, waiting for teammates, you don't want to wait inside. showroom just standing there dripping snow on their beautiful floor or whatever as people are trying to eat their lunch. So it is nice to be able to do it where I don't have to probably bring a giant winter coat. It changes a little bit of the need for a warmer layer and that sort of thing, which is pretty nice. And it just makes it a little bit easier to get around and that sort of thing. So yeah, I think it'll be good. It'll be really fun to see you in the city for that, which will be fun. It's probably like peak stress for me. for the year. Yeah. Is making sure that everything kind of comes together. Yeah. Um, especially those first two or three days of the show. Right. But yeah, so it'll be fun, fun to connect there. I haven't seen, um, all of the details come in from the FHH yet, but maybe we'll even be lucky and be at the same hotel and we can have breakfast together most days. |
| Unknown | Yeah. |
| James Stacey | Yeah. That'd be awesome. |
| Jason Heaton | Without further ado, we should probably move into our main topic because we had a good long chat with, uh, with Will Gadd. Um, but before we get to it, let's do a quick, uh, Quick risk check. I think we both kind of came proper for today's episode. |
| James Stacey | Yeah. So we got connected with Will Gadd, who obviously has been on our radar. And if you're into the extreme sports world, certainly in ice climbing or mixed climbing, you would know Will's name. This is one I'm pretty excited about. The chat with Will went really well. We just finished it before we recorded this part of the show. He was an absolute treat. I could definitely see having him on several more times. We had plenty to talk about, but the underlying sort of connection here is through Citizen. Yeah. You know, obviously we have a great relationship with Citizen. They help us throw a pretty fun sort of hangout every year at Windup. We had a great one this past year in Chicago. And part of that, they said, Hey, you know, we're doing this thing with the new AltaKron and we're connecting with Will Gadd and these, these sort of projects, um, about, uh, you know, the loss of glaciers and this whole kind of program called Save the Beyond. And we said, yeah, absolutely. We would love to do that. But, uh, obviously when it comes to risk checks, And it's not that hard to guess what Jason and I grabbed from Citizen. As cool as the new Altacron is, I went with my loom dial Aqualand, the 2007-17W, which is, you know, a stalwart for the show. And Jason, I assume you went with the same. |
| Jason Heaton | I did. Yeah. Yeah. Seemed appropriate for today. I have this and then I've got my vintage Aqualand, which is actually down in Milwaukee on the wrist of a good friend of mine whose old Aqualan broke, so I've been lending him mine. But yeah, this seemed like the right watch. And Will was certainly wearing his Citizen as well. So yeah, it was a good chat. I think we should probably jump right into it with Will Gadd. And rather than do a full-on introduction here, Will did a pretty good one himself. So let's get started. |
| James Stacey | All right, it's an absolute pleasure to introduce to the show a legend of the climbing and ice climbing scene and even a few other things just in case he was bored at some point, it seems in his career, but Will Gadd, it's a it's an absolute treat to have you on. Thanks so much for making time for a call. |
| Will Gadd | Thanks, James and Jason and happy to be here. And yeah, also want to learn more about your world. You've done some interesting things as well. So I have questions for you. |
| James Stacey | All right, well, that'll be a first kind of two way interview, then that'll be fun. But You know, we, we were fortunate enough to get connected to you through citizen. You're operating as a, an ambassador for the kind of Alta Kron program. And we definitely want to get into that and the watch angle and the rest of it, but you know, on the off chance that there's a handful of folks in the, in the audience who aren't, you know, big ice climbing acolytes or, or, you know, paying close attention to the roster of the Red Bull athlete. Why don't you give people a small background on, on kind of where you got your start and what you've spent the last few years kind of focusing on. |
| Will Gadd | my life biography in that in short period of time here. |
| James Stacey | But I'm just we'll just just kick it off. We'll get we'll do I can dig in deeper as we go. |
| Will Gadd | I've made a career out of outdoor and adventure sports of one kind or another. At first as a as a writer for magazines, and then as a publisher of magazines, and then moving into the pro athlete side of things. So for the last literally 40 years, I've been doing high level outdoor adventure sports of one kind or another for paragliding to kayaking to mountain biking to skiing, and of course, ice climbing and all the other stuff I do. And yeah, it's been a it's been a weird and interesting career. I don't think you know, my school guidance counselor didn't have professed professional icicle climber on the list of occupations, right? Like that didn't really that didn't make the list. And then, yeah, it but it's worked out very well. And and there's ups and downs to it. If you choose You know, when I was 29, I left my sort of normal job in the publishing and qualitative market research world to be a pro athlete and follow this dream of spending a lot of days outside and in cool places and doing interesting things. |
| Jason Heaton | And everybody told me I was- Sorry, how old did you say you were? I was 29. Oh, okay. All right. Bit of a late start by some people's standards, I would say, right? |
| Will Gadd | It was interesting because when I was earlier, when I was younger, I was a professional sport climber. And in that era, that meant you got free shoes. You know, you can't eat shoes, so I had another job. And I sort of thought you couldn't, there was no way to make a living as a pro sports adventure guy, right? Like that didn't, that work didn't really exist back then. And so I was, you know, I had a job writing and publishing and then doing qualitative market research and so on, kind of on the side while pursuing these sports nearly full time, you know, outside of that job. But when I was 29, I did what everybody, said was idiotic and quit a really great job to go and do these sports. And everybody's like, that'll never work. You'll be back in six months, but it's 20, 25 years later, 25 plus years later, and I'm still doing it. And yeah, I'm enjoying, enjoying life in different ways. |
| James Stacey | Did that background that you had in, in publishing and writing help as you moved into, obviously it's, it's like a, an entirely different mode, but you probably still had to interface with people who were operating in a similar world to that which you left. |
| Will Gadd | Yeah. And I also knew how to put a value on what I did. And that's a really hard thing in life. Like, how do you value what you do, whatever occupation you're in? And before working in the publishing and, you know, now we just call that content creation, right? That's what we do. We create content, man. So at that point, nobody knew how to value that. And having then worked in publishing and, you know, gone through a lot of media kits, I could say, hey, look, Whether it was Red Bull or one of my other partners, I could say, hey, look, here's the spread in Sports Illustrated, and here's how much it's worth, and I would like a slice of that, please. And those basic skills in life, being able to write and talk and communicate, those are really critical. So I don't regret any of the time I spent in that world, and I made some great contacts and friends that I'm still close with. I've got this sort of theory that no effort in life is ever wasted if you're giving honest effort. then it's not wasted. It comes around in different ways. And I'm sure, you know, again, questions for you guys, but you've also had changes in your career that didn't seem obvious at the time. And yet here we are. |
| James Stacey | The other thing that pops up, and we've definitely had the topic kind of come up in both the show and then we have a Slack that is kind of like a private chat platform that a handful of folks that support the show kind of talk over various things. I'm curious, and I'm sure there's rules of what you can and can't say and that sort of thing. And I definitely want to get into the citizen side of it, but I'm, I'm eternally curious about Red Bull athletes. It's such a, um, like cult is the wrong word because I think like what Red Bull has managed to do for a lot of sports is super positive. And, but the profile of the brand is on like a nonstop, basically a straight line straight up, you know, especially if you look at the success of stuff like, um, well, you know what they're doing with, with formula one and that kind of thing. What's that experience like getting kind of brought into that fold, or how long have you been associated with Red Bull? |
| Will Gadd | There's a lot in all those questions. People are always curious about Red Bull because it is such an interesting and different company. And I first got on with Red Bull because I was bringing Red Bull back from Europe. I was competing in events in Europe, and this is a little over 25 years ago, but I was competing in these events in Europe. And I would fly over there from North America, get off the plane and have to compete, you know, sometimes literally hours later and often jet lag. You guys know the drill, right? You get off. It's really not your favorite moment in travel life when you get off that plane and you got to go to work. And I found these little silver and blue cans that worked really well. And so I started bringing them back to North America and using them on the flip side when I would fly back and for training. Somehow Red Bull North America heard about this and they're like, hey, would you like some free cans? And I thought this was a great idea. You know, I'm already buying this stuff. I will, I will. Yeah, that's how I got involved with them initially. And I, I honestly thought their business model was going to be a flop. You can't just give people helmets and tell them to do, you know, support cool ideas. This is not a business model. Turned out that I was very wrong about that. It was a fantastic business model. It's kind of like getting inducted into a weird fraternity or sorority or something where they have a lot of money to support cool ideas. And that's what they do. They support people who want to do cool things. And they've made a business around that. And the guy who started the company, the kind of Western version of it, I really think he did it more to have fun than anything else. It lets us support people and do cool things because he certainly could have, if he were just straight mercenary, certainly could have made more money perhaps. But in the end, this combination of people and adventure in places, whether it's F1 or, or the icicle climber, um, you know, I'm sure my budget is like one tire per year or something, but it's, it's been a great ride. It's like having a really rich uncle that wants to support the coolest thing you can think of doing. I really appreciate that. |
| James Stacey | I think a lot of people find that the whole combination of like the, well, it's a drinks company. Sure. But it's also like a now prolific supporter of sport and, and a media house behind it. And I'm eternally kind of curious about how it works and, and that sort of thing. So I appreciate the, uh, the look inside and it's also, you know, they seem to have almost exclusively very longstanding relationships. It doesn't seem like something where they pick someone up for a year or two. If the athlete in question seems to stay in the sport or continue to evolve, it seems like they, they've got a track to, to kind of be part of that arc, which I think is kind of interesting because like a lot of brand partnerships can come and go throughout, uh, you know, the career of, uh, of, uh, an athlete or otherwise. Right. |
| Will Gadd | Yeah. I think that's a really good point. And in the words you use there evolve, you know, that that's a really important idea as an athlete. And that's what Red Bull does. A lot of people think Red Bull or the other partners and all my partners are very long-term. I've been with most of them for at least 20 and often, often more years. They don't ask me to do things. Like I come up every year and I'm like, Hey, these are the things that I would like to do. And then they, you know, get on board or don't get on board or, um, but it's, it's all athlete driven. So that sort of people look at often pro adventure sports athletes and they're like, Oh, your sponsors must be asking you to do this. It's like, no, no, no, this is us. Like what we're going to do on the weekend is do our sports, whether we're getting paid for it or not. It's just, we're very lucky to have strong partnerships and yeah, Red Bull's been great that way. It's, uh, You know, I'm, I'm not young anymore. And I'm like, isn't that like a skateboard or something? Um, they've just been a great company to work with. And I, and as with all my partners and, you know, newer ones, like the newest one is citizen, but, um, I expect that to be a long-term relationship as well. It's, it's about the values and how they look at the world. So I feel very lucky. |
| Jason Heaton | Well, we'll chat a bit about citizen in a little while, but your, your mention of, of Red Bull being like a rich uncle, I'm curious about your own. kind of background with, with family, for instance, um, you know, not sure where you're from, I'm guessing from somewhere in Canada, maybe the West coast of Canada, but, but did, did you grow up kind of with a family that went out and did not necessarily extreme sports, but adventurous things, or how did you, how did you get into the stuff you're doing? Cause you have quite a wide range of, of interests. |
| Will Gadd | That's a polite way of saying that it's a sort of, you know, um, ADD style approach to sports here. Yeah, right. |
| James Stacey | We take the same approach towards media and content, so it's all good. |
| Will Gadd | Well, let's check. I actually subscribed to your, to your podcast or went on there and checked out the, uh, the different show notes and things. So you have a really good platform here. I've got questions about that as well. You've, you've done a really good job with that. You guys are tight. Um, but I mean, I grew up in the Canadian Rockies and so that's Banff, Camelot, Lake Louise. And some of my earliest memories are like being in a tent with my mom and a bear showing up and my mom scaring this bear off and, you know, being out in the mountains. And I thought all kids live this life. I thought it was totally normal that you went out there and had like, I wouldn't say death defying, but certainly high adventure weekends in the mountains. And I just took that for granted. And as I got older, I played all the high school sports that are available in Canada. You know, I love team sports as well. So I played basketball and volleyball and I went to a small school. So it was a lot easier to make those teams. Um, but I, I was always, um, on the weekends going skiing and, and I didn't really get into like the adventure sports on my own until I was in high school. So 16, 17, I started to get into climbing pretty seriously and then kayaking. And I've always taken a seasonal approach to my sports. It's like springs, kayaking season summers, rock climbing season and paragliding. And then fall is, is more of the Alpine stuff. And then winter you, you go skiing or ice climbing and then just repeat. So that's. And I was lucky enough to live in a small town where I could do that. And I was also persistent, which was a tactic that's worked well for me in life. You know, I would get home from school every day, and if it were kayaking season, I had a list of names on the wall of people in my town that would kayak. And I'd just start at the top, and I'd be like, hey, you know, Joe, can you take me kayaking today? No. You know, and I'd just go through the list, and I had about 15 names on it. And if I got to the bottom, and I didn't have somebody that would take me kayaking, I'd just start at the top. And then eventually somebody would break. They'd be like, somebody take the kid kayaking because he's not going to stop calling. You know, then I did things, everything from babysit to wash dishes to whatever it took to, you know, I don't come from a wealthy family. So I had to really come up with creative ways to get the money to do these sports. And yeah, one thing led to another. And I just, I never, these sports are intensely interesting, whether it's diving, you guys both dive, I think. I'm a overly certified and very interested diver, but that's another topic. I got questions about that for you guys, too, actually. But anyhow, you know, whether it's diving or whatever, it's just interesting to be in that environment. And I found these to be a lifelong pursuit just to gain competency and understanding of how these environments work. And they relate. A lot of the way I think on a dive is very similar to the way I think when I'm flying my paraglider or climbing an icicle, that same, what's important here? What do I need to monitor? What's going on? And then seeing ahead. using your mind to see ahead, you know, it's sort of this sort of like, you know, time machine that you could use to look where you're going. And so you develop those skills. And I think that's one reason I've had some of the success I've had is that constant development of that higher hazard environment thinking. |
| Jason Heaton | I think this raises an interesting point to me, and you mentioned your background in school, playing all these different team sports, and it As you were talking, I was thinking to myself that was kind of my journey as well. I played football and basketball in high school and then like late high school and then beyond, I kind of discovered what I guess you'd call more individual sports, um, running, cross country skiing, cycling, diving, of course, things like this. And it sounds like you followed the same path. And then as you were talking about the parallels between say diving and paragliding or something like this, or, or ice climbing, um, there's a certain, introspective meditative in the moment mindfulness to those sports. And I'm just wondering that transition. I know that I went through from team sports to more individual sports, kind of paralleled, I guess, my own, I'm largely an introverted person. I'm not sure about you, but do you have any insights in terms of like, what are you kind of similar in that way? Like moving from team sports to these kinds of more mindful individual sports? |
| Will Gadd | Yeah. So much in these individual sports and that meditative state, that flow state, that's really beautiful. And that excitement too, for me, like I really like waking up on, you know, at my age, mid fifties now, I wake up on a Saturday morning and I feel like I'm eight again and I've got the whole day to go and do the coolest possible thing in life, right? Like having that excitement and expectation and joy of engagement with the day is like, that's really important. Um, and then that meditative state when you're out there and you're just doing something and you can genuinely pick something up in your mind and examine it and look at it and think, is this a good idea? And then, then you fall down on your skis and you're like, God, I'd pay attention here, man. But I do really love that. I also learned a lot playing team sports about how to interact with people. Like on a sports team, you don't get to choose who you're on that team with. You have to learn how to operate with. sometimes people that you wouldn't really hang out with normally, but you get a common goal and you're going someplace cool. And, uh, you know, whether, whether it's to a game or you're on the floor with somebody, it's, I love that too, like figuring out how to work with people and what makes them tick and, and how you can work together to do cool things. So it's, uh, I mean, there's just so many interesting things in life to do, I think is the problem. |
| Jason Heaton | You know, I, I've always associated you with, with ice climbing. I mean, I always, I always, I can visualize so many photos of you, you know, hanging from two ice axes with a helmet on your, on your head, you know, and I think what, I mean, that is a, that's a niche sport kind of within a niche sport, you know, I mean, it's, um, and, and what led you to that was purely the kind of availability of, of, you know, frozen, frozen walls or. |
| Will Gadd | Well, growing up in the Canadian Rockies, the winter is long. It's you're dealing with winter for about seven months. And so you'd better do something. And I did a lot of skating, played some hockey and did a lot of skiing. But that ice climbing thing, to me, it's just so unlikely. It's a bit like diving. Actually, you get under the water. And I still remember my first dives because I was like, this actually works. Like you can actually breathe underwater. |
| James Stacey | I know the exact thing you're saying. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah. That first breath is a scary one. |
| Will Gadd | Yeah and you suck it down and you're like wow this works and you get to look around at this world and it's so cool and ice climbing is you know every time I go ice climbing I'm like wow this works you know like I've done it a lot now it's not that same reaction I'm looking at other things but it's like I can climb a vertical sheet of ice for real like it's it's a form of magic and and I I just loved that and it's so unlikely and it's so beautiful you have this often blue icicles and this strip of blue shooting up into the sky, and it's like Jack and the Beanstalk. You get to climb the thing, you know? And I love that shift in perception where you're like, wow, this works, and I can be in this environment that at first seems completely alien, but this is how it works. And, you know, same thing with the sky, like you're riding a boiling atmosphere on a bedsheet. And, and like this works really. And that's just sense of magic and off of what we get to do, where we get to be in life, I think runs through. All these sports for me, but yeah. |
| Jason Heaton | And with ice climbing, it's, it's a new climb every time. Right. I mean, you can't like with rock climbing, like I'm guessing and, you know, being a uninformed climber, I guess. I think like if you were to climb, uh, you know, uh, El Capitan or something in Yosemite. The guys that were climbing in the sixties might have be able to lend some advice to those climbing now. Like the, the wall probably hasn't changed that much, but with ice climbing every season, it's a new experience, right? Because water it's, it's, it's frozen water that goes away and comes back in different ways. Right. So it's a new climb every time. |
| Will Gadd | Yeah, I think you're gonna have to try this sport. I think you've got a natural affinity for it. Why don't you guys come come out here to cat board? I'll seriously take you ice climbing. And you could tell me about watches because I got questions about that world as well. But yeah, right. I want to take the ice climbing you're thinking about it in a way that's interesting in that. Yeah, because ice climbs fall down every year. Every year. It's a new climb even week to week and sometimes day to day. They're different. And I guess that's true of a lot of these sports. Even if you go and dive the same spot, it's different. The light's different, the current's different. The amount of sediment in the water is different, who you're with is different. But yeah, ice climbing, the whole thing just falls down. Usually when I show up to an ocean, it's still there, but ice climbing is not a guaranteed thing. So you're trying to figure that one out. And rock climbs, yeah, they're a lot more static. But again, that just makes it more interesting. How do you, how do you operate in these environments and how do you work with people in these environments to, to make them reasonably safe? They're not safe, but that, you know, you kind of pick your point on the line of where you want to be. And, and, um, I have kids too. So that's changed my risk assessment and thinking about these sports as well, for sure. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. And I was actually, that was a question I wanted to bring up was, um, how has your relationship with risk changed since you know, you were 29 and, and kind of started doing this full time, um, to now, uh, in terms of. kind of gauging what you take on. Does that factor in? Are you a little more cautious or tentative nowadays? I'm guessing not. Wiser might be the better word. |
| Will Gadd | I mean, how we look at risk, we're all running kind of risk management software all the time. Is this acceptable even when you're driving along? You do that every day often, but am I thinking about the right things? Am I looking ahead? And we just try to develop that software. And when I was younger, my idea of risk management was like, you go first. It doesn't work out great. And then, you know, it's about bad outcomes with that. And I've had to develop over my whole life, this my own risk management software. And I try to share this with people through my writing and, and talks and things like that. And I love it. And just sharing that, sharing that kind of look at how people manage the hazards in their own lives, whatever they are. So when I had kids, a few things happened. First of all, my tolerance for risk has been surprisingly low. I actually, I have a lot of anxiety and fear. People often look at what I do and like, that guy's fearless. And you know, he just doesn't think about it. But at 56 years old now, I wouldn't be alive if I didn't have those two key tools. Sure. For me, fear is a superpower. And I've got different ways to look at that and whether you're letting fear use you or you're using your fear. But I have a lot of it and that's why I'm still alive. It's actually the best thing I have going for me. So with kids, as I mentioned, two things happen there. One is I was like, yeah, this is another weight on the definitely want to stay here on the planet side of things. And then also how to teach them about risk. Because they're a lot like me. They see a dangerous thing and they're like, ah, let's go play with it. How do I get them to develop that risk management software and get that going? Because you can't watch them all the time. And I want them to be able to explore the world and get out there and have a go at it. Nothing drives me crazier than when I come to a playground. My kids are pretty good at risk assessment. We have a system. We have these three levels of hazard. And we've got a little system we've developed together. So, you know, the kids get to the playground and they're like, haha, attack. Whereas I see a lot of parents like, hey, you know, be careful and be safe. And they give them all this kind of fear loaded warnings. And then the kids don't, they don't want that you see them, they're tentative out there and everything's a hazard. So it's been great to learn about risk management with my kids. And yeah, definitely in my life, it's a weight on the side of coming back. I always want to come back. Um, no, but also I'm not normal. Hey, like, let's be honest about that. I am not normal. And so it's, I need to do this stuff. You know what? I don't go out and do my, do my high stimulus activities of one kind or another. My kids are like, dad, go outside. You're getting grumpy. I'm getting grumpy. Yeah. They recognize that. And I think that's a big part of life. Like what what blows your hair back? What makes you tick? What makes you feel alive and figuring out how to get that? |
| James Stacey | I'm curious, you know, because I have two daughters, 10 and seven, and I've really enjoyed the like, the evolution that it is to be a dad and figure all these things out. And as they get older, the rules change every few months, that sort of thing. And definitely the risk assessment, they're obsessed with water. So you'd a lot of time on swimming and diving and all that kind of stuff and a lot of practice. And I am curious, though, for you, because if you don't mind me asking, how old were you when your eldest was born? |
| Will Gadd | I started late, took a lot of practice. But I was I was 41 when we had the first one and 43 for the second. |
| James Stacey | So I was just gonna say like, I found it to be suddenly had this, you know, you have a kid and you had to totally change the pace that your life operated at. And like, Up until then, I could operate very selfishly. I could do whatever I wanted. If I wanted to dive on a Saturday and two dives in Vancouver, take an entire day. And then if I wanted to hike a Sunday and you know, I've got lots of friends who maybe aren't diving or hiking, which is my entire existence in Vancouver, but the, they, maybe they love to golf. And then all of a sudden it's feels kind of selfish to go spend eight hours golfing on a weekend when you've got the family, like, did you find that you had to recalibrate a lot of the the like push to do the next thing to be gone for an extra two days to get the last, this extra little bit of work in or time in or that sort of thing? |
| Will Gadd | Yeah. I mean, we don't, we only have so much time in a day, unfortunately. Yeah. That's, that was a major error. If this, if this place were designed, I want like 48 hour days next time. Wouldn't that be cool. But, uh, you know, anyhow, um, the, yes. I mean, I just agree with everything you say. You have to think about it differently and, It's important. I had kids to do things and be there with my kids. It's a journey that you do together. I'm very invested in that journey with the kids. I guess for me, though, I've never felt like I'm giving – how should I say this? I don't think we give things up to do other things. We do what is important to us, really. Some of my friends would say, I can't go. I've got to hang out with my kids. I would never say that. I would say, I'm going to hang out with my kids. love to do that with you later or another point, but it's like they're, they're a priority. Like what you're doing is totally what you want to do. And so for me, I'm not going to ever like, like, ah, you know, I'm, my kids are crimping my life. It's, it's, it's more, I've chosen this other, um, form of life that I, that I really love, you know, like yesterday, my 16 year old daughter and I went to the climbing gym and it was awesome. you know, she she well, we both got a little bit less early about after about an hour and a half and needed a chocolate chip cookie to get back in the game. But just that time with her was magic. You know, I really, really enjoyed it. And the days that I get to go skiing with my with my kids or do whatever, like, those are some of my best days of the year. |
| James Stacey | I guess I meant more more within the context of like, for me, I just stopped diving for six or seven years. Not that big a deal. I just got back to it. My wife is certified. I'm back like They're old enough. Uh, my 10 year old would like to get certified this year. So if she can pass the course, she's welcome to, of course. Um, but I don't, I don't dive for a living. I could, I can make podcasts with like a kid on my lap. If I need to, you can't climb an ice wall with a kid on your back. You know what I mean? Like, uh, I think when it, when it comes to your job is something that takes you out of the house, you probably have to travel a lot. If we, if you go back, I mean, As you get a little bit older, you probably have more control over that. But when you're starting, you're not saying no to a lot of stuff. If someone wants to fly you somewhere for something, you're you, you jump on it. Right. Uh, so I guess that was more my, my mode, not so much like. To being a dad's the best, like it's great. It's, it's, it's not, it's not a weird trade-off, but you have to stop doing some things to do other great things. But I didn't know, you know, if it's, if it was difficult to maintain a fairly legendary status in a couple sports. while also going through the process of caring for a family that you enjoy being with and all that kind of thing. |
| Will Gadd | Well, I think it is a balancing act, and it's not ever balanced, to be honest. I'm away too much, and then I'm home and trying to make all the things work that I didn't get done while I was away, obviously. But this is the modern dilemma. I think in some ways, though, and maybe it's more acceptable for men than it is for women, this is kind of what we do as men. We go off and we do things. I don't want to get too far above my pay grade here, but it's an historical thing that we've gone to see and done things like this. This is, at least some percentage of men, that's what we do. And I wish I could be there all the time with my family, but these are things that I also need to do to maintain my own sanity. And you know, when the airline bags drop out, when the pressure drops on the plane, you put yours on first. And if you're not healthy as a human, then you're not going to be a good parent. Um, so I think it's, I think we have to do things that keep us lit up and engage with the world so that we're there for our kids in the same way. And I also want to show my kids, it's like, you know, you can do different things in life. The career paths are often not linear and that, you know, having that passion You know, the kids know that I, I love what I do. And I, and I hope that they can find the things in their lives that also allow them to wake up again, like that kid on Saturday morning, it'd be like, we're going to do the best thing today. Not every day, you know, I'm getting on a plane for the third time and being a carbon criminal and stuff. And I'm, you know, I'm not psyched. Let's face it. There's times when you just got to grind, but overall having that joy, like the, you find in podcasts and diving, that's, it's critical. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. Yeah. And I think, you know, you've, um, you've had a remarkable and a remarkably long career doing all of these interesting things. And, and it's, it's a bit of an inspiration to me because I'm close to your age now as well. And I, I, I'm just wondering, um, what's kind of, do you have any like hacks or secrets to, to longevity and, and, uh, you know, are you, have you changed a fitness regimen or a diet or, or have you kind of just stayed the course and just keep fit and, and. avoid the bad stuff. And, uh, you know, I mean, you, you've mentioned you're in your mid fifties and, and I'm guessing climbing and ice climbing things. These are what most people would think of as like a young person sport. Um, but you just keep at it. And it's like I said, it's a real inspiration for me as I approached the same age. |
| Will Gadd | Well, thank you. And I'm sure you're doing cool things that, that, you know, you look like a fit, healthy guy at your age too. So we're doing something right. We need to do some show notes on our, like our routines and so on, you know, but it's, I think just keeping moving for me is the biggest thing. You know, I get off a flight, bringing up flights a lot, but I get off a flight somewhere and I'm jet lagged and I'm surly and, you know, reset the watch and go for a hike. You know, it's, it's, that's what I do over and over and over again is I've, I just try to move every day. Or maybe there's a hotel gym, which, you know, often remind me of jail. I don't know what it is with hotel gyms, but most of a year that's like, Yeah, you leave bed there, right? You go down there and it's like this box that was an old room or you know, if you're occasionally if you're at like a nice hotel that you get a nice gym, but usually it's even there. It's kind of this depressed but you get you do your workout and you're like, yeah, I did something today. I fought that inertia that I overcame that like, you know, desire to just sleep more or sit around more and celebrate that. So I I try to move every day. And then I've got a pretty good mobility routine that I work on. And I just keep moving and train hard, eat decently. There's, you know, the things that I've seen take people down and as they get older, it's kind of the same stuff. It's like they don't move and alcohol becomes too much of a factor in their lives. You know, I certainly enjoy a good beer or something. I'm not a teetotaler or anything like that, but it's in moderation. And then, you know, you have to eat reasonably healthy and by reasonably, it's not a neurotic perfect diet. You know, you got choices on the menu in that hotel. You could affect what happens. My grandfather died at 56, my age, of heart disease. And here I am, and I go in there, and I'm still reasonably fit according to the doctors anyhow. I can still do a one-arm pull-up, so I'm doing all right. What you bring up is, I'm fascinated by this topic too, but I think we forget we're really good at dealing with sharp risk. like things that come at us that are like, you know, you're diving and all of a sudden, you're like, wow, I really didn't pay attention to my gauge. And I got not a lot of air. This is a problem or a shark shows up like, yeah, that's got our attention. But it's the dull incremental risks, these things that add up like no one drink kills you. No one cigarette kills you. No one day with that just sitting on your ass kills you. But you add them up over time and they get you and are just our minds are much better at dealing with those those I read an interesting book and I'm forgetting the author's name because that's what I do, but one of the things about the book is that alcohol is often a social lubricant and I think every study out there, I don't know if you follow the Harvard one in terms of longevity and things like that, but what are the factors that allow people to live a longer life and one of them is your social network and the quality of your life, your friends, your community, how often you go out and do things. And I suspect at some point they're going to discover that the people who went to the pub once a week and drank two pints of beer are happier, healthier. well adjusted humans than the people who didn't. And I, this guy's thesis was that without beer, this civilization wouldn't exist because people wouldn't get together. He might have been a bit pro beer, but it was a great book. |
| James Stacey | It sounds like a Canadian. |
| Will Gadd | Yeah, exactly. Probably an Albertan. You know, we're kind of, yeah. So I think all these things like, yes, scientifically the harm, this might be the harm. And it's true of extreme sports too. Like it's, skiing you go out there cross-country skiing you could get gored by a wild pig it could happen um you know but the benefits of being out there and living your life and in a positive way and and celebrating doing something cool with your friends i don't know i'm i'm going with the theory that that is worth that's that's more valuable but yeah you got to live for sure i actually track this stuff i got the spreadsheet and i track like um it's it's i'm completely add so i need a spreadsheet i couldn't because i can't remember it um but the I do track how much I drink and my exercise load and training load and things like that. It's really basic. It's like just the fastest thing I do in like 10 seconds or whatever every day. But it just allows me to track that. And if I don't exercise, I get surlier. I have this mental health note column and I'm like, am I a 10 today or a one? And it's like, I don't exercise, that number starts dropping. I drink too much, that number starts dropping. I'm not performing in areas of my life, that number starts dropping. |
| Jason Heaton | So it all goes together. We've got about 10 minutes left and I wanted to shift gears a bit and talk about, um, your recent new relationship with, with citizen and citizen kindly connected us with you for, for today's episode. Um, and I, it sounds to me like citizen had kind of approached you, um, based on some of your work, uh, around, uh, climate change and they have the save the beyond campaign and, and, and you've been doing work with something called a world without glaciers. Before we started, I was mentioning that we've had kind of a non-existent winter here in Minneapolis of all places. And we're all Northern Hemisphere folks here. I'm in Minneapolis. You guys are both in Canada. Over the time that you've been ice climbing, I'm guessing you've seen pretty remarkable changes in the places you go frequently in terms of differing ice conditions and kind of winters in general. Is that, would that be safe to say? |
| Will Gadd | Yeah, it's been a radical change. For example, the What I would regard kind of as my home glacier, and I realize that's a weird sentence, but my home glacier that I've been visiting since I was a little kid. I used to get out of the car and it was right there. And now it's over a mile or a couple of kilometers back from that parking area. So you walk across this moonscape to get to the glacier. And people say often, well, climate change is a theory. And I'm like, well, my glacier is not here. Imagine if you showed up to work in your office building Minneapolis or New York or Vancouver, and like half the building was gone, it would be kind of a wake up call. And so I've been doing a lot of work with taking people onto these glaciers and sharing that story. And that's what led to my involvement with with Citizen, as they were doing a really neat program called Save the Beyond. And I'm a bit leery of this stuff, honestly, because I get approached by this sort of, you know, we're gonna do this. And I'm always a little bit like, well, like, a lot, there's a lot of it in the inbox. And So I researched Citizen first, I was like, do I want to have anything to do with this? And the answer was, yeah, they shared my values and they're 1% for the planet. And they just have a really nice, like, you know, be a responsible part of the world. And so I've said no to a lot of opportunities like that. But I was like, okay, these people share my values, and they're being a responsible company. And that, you know, that's what started it was going up on the Athabasca Glacier, my home glacier, and and working with them and and shooting this and you know they can spend their money a lot of ways but they're putting one percent toward the planet. Yeah. It was just good people so that's how that relationship started and uh yeah and then the product was good too and I'm pretty picky about my products so I was like hey this is actually really nice like I don't need to charge it this is the I hate this and watches like it's the bane of my existence you've got to have the I'm going to, I was going to swear. I stopped myself. You've got to have the, the, the, the cable that fits into the port to charge the thing. I hate this. And you know, with their, they had this cool eco drive. It's it's, it's your watch is powered by light. I have, you know, I've been wearing this watch for going on a year now and I've never had to charge it. And I just love that. |
| Jason Heaton | It's like, it works. You know, I think one other thing that, that I like about citizen as well is that they make this whole pro master line of watches that they have is very oriented around outdoor adventure. And my kind of philosophy around watches, uh, as long as I've been into it is that one of their most important tasks is to inspire you to get out and do adventurous, cool stuff. And citizen makes enough watches for diving and mountaineering and various other sports that they get people out the door. You, me, James, everybody listening, um, to go to, to go do cool stuff outside. And I think by extension. They then witness what's happening on the planet and they start to care more about it. That's kind of, I realized it might be a bit of a tenuous link, but I do like that about a watch brand that like makes watches that encourage people to get out and do really cool, interesting stuff. Right. |
| Will Gadd | Yeah. I think, I think that is cool. And it's, you know, the, the model of the company is, is, you know, better starts now. And I like that idea of incremental improvement and engagement. And I think you're exactly right. People aren't going to care. about the natural world unless they go out there. They're not going to care about sharks unless they see them swimming and diving. You know, there's three versions of the ProMaster. There's the land, you know, land, sea, and air. And this is all of those things together are our ecosystem. So for me, that's really important to get people out there and involved. And a lot of what I've been doing is taking scientists to places they would have a hard time accessing otherwise. So underneath glaciers in Greenland, Um, we're doing a project. Oh, cool. Yeah. Oh, that was really cool. Um, helping people learn about the planet and, um, you know, just getting them places that would be physically like really challenging. And, uh, so yeah, I've loved, I've loved that part of it. And I'm, I'm working on other projects for the, the year, the year of the glacier, basically. Um, it is, yeah, just so much going on there. And, and again, citizens supported that and has for a long time. So I appreciate that. |
| James Stacey | And your current go-to is the new Alticron, the big titanium. |
| Will Gadd | You can't see it. I'm waving it around right now. |
| James Stacey | Audio only for this one. |
| Will Gadd | I'll tap it or something, but it's just been great. It's got the three things I need, which are time, direction, and altitude. So that's what you need to navigate and see the world. And again, it just works. And I love that, that I've had it. The new one on my wrist for a month or two now, and I've never had to plug it in. It's always worked, and it's just great, and I can hit the button and see my altitude, and I love that. And, you know, the watch world is really interesting to me. Again, I wish we had two hours, because I would love to ask you more questions about this, but one of my favorite features about it is one that's not even listed on their things. Like, I like waking up in the middle of the night, and I don't have to find my phone to look at the time. |
| Jason Heaton | And I don't have to press a button. I think that's our favorite. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We're, we're, we're both wearing, you know, our listeners want people to, to, uh, to see this, but I'm, I'm holding up this, uh, Aqualand dive watch and it has a fully loomed dial. So it's like, it's, it just glows like a torch in the middle of the night. It's James and I always talk about feeling like a little kid, you know, when you like roll over at night and you look at your watch and you can like read the time. So cool. |
| Will Gadd | No, that is still really cool. And I just love that. And it doesn't intrude on my life. That's another thing I like about it. It gives me what I need to know. And, you know, if you drop me on a desert island, I'm sure 10 years from now, my watch is still going to be working. Yeah. I'm curious about this watch world, too, because it's it's for me, they're tools. They're just straight up tools. And this is, you know, Promaster is a really effective tool. But I love that there's this culture. And I was going through some of your show notes and following up on things. I need to know more about this culture. So you guys need to come ice climbing and, and I'll, I'll grill you about the watch world and we'll do something cool with ProBasters. It'll be cool. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah, that sounds good. And, uh, we'll, we'll have to chat with Citizen about that. |
| James Stacey | Yeah, absolutely. But, uh, yeah, for reference, for everybody listening, it'll be in the show notes, but the, uh, the model that Will's talking about is the BN4065-07L. I don't have that memorized. It's the current kind of top, top flight AltaKron. currently on for about 800 bucks on Citizen's website. I have one of them here in the office. It's a really impressive thing. I have not changed altitude in any way other than a plane to the extent where I could test such a cool watch. But I think it's interesting because you mentioned that they're tools. And I think a lot of the functionality that's built into these watches also has been co-opted by the smartwatch world. But definitely if you're into expeditions or you spend a lot of time out in the field, Those things have to be charged all the time, especially if you're talking about one, uh, something that's going to have an altimeter and a compass that you're using frequently. And with something like this, it's, it's much more of a standalone product. You're not, it doesn't need your smartphone. It doesn't need your computer. It doesn't need the cloud or anything like that. It just kind of operates, you know, not unlike a dive computer would for diving. This kind of fits that bill for, you know, going up rather than down. |
| Will Gadd | Yeah, it's it just works. And again, because it's the eco drive, it's powered by light, right? So it just it keeps recharging itself. I've sort of taken as a challenge. It's got this little dial that shows your power, the level of power that you have in your watch. I've always like, haha, I've had it underneath my sleeve for like four days now, you know, and I'm wearing a suit jacket. And I'm like, haha, my watch is now and then the thing still always good. It's really impressive that way. I don't I need to know more about the technology because I want everything in my life to work like that. I want my computer to just turn on and work without having to like wrestle plugs and so on. But yeah, it's, yeah, it's a tool and that altitude function works really well. I'm, I'm pretty sensitive about that, but it's quite accurate. And so I always enjoy whether I bought a plate, I like hit the button and I'm like, ha ha. |
| Jason Heaton | It's pretty accurate. |
| James Stacey | Like a party trick. Yeah. And you also do some guiding where something like this would also come in handy. You know, just where you're probably managing more than just what's going on in your own mind, other people's minds, other people's needs, that sort of thing. And to have this as simply a tool for getting to a destination or getting to a certain altitude or something like that feels also quite useful. It's critical. |
| Will Gadd | You know, if I'm whited out on a glacier, and it looks like the inside of a ping pong ball, It's very nice to have a compass on your wrist and also be able to see the altitude at the same time. You're always juggling that with watches and yeah, it just works really well. Oftentimes you'll use altitude weirdly as a reference. So I know that I go up to, you know, 3,000 meters, 9,800 feet or whatever it is and then I turn right and follow that line and that's how I'm going to find the hut, the place we're going to camp for the night. And I, I, I just, I love having something that just works and that I don't need to worry about charging it. Or is it, you know, I'm going out in the field for 10 days, you know, how am I going to manage that? And, uh, yeah, I'm, I'm really liking that. It's, it's interesting because so much, so much of what we do is so digital and using the AltaKron, it's been this like really kind of, it's not a simple product. It's a very highly engineered product, but it does, what it does for me is very simple. And I really like that. I'm really happy. I don't know. It's been an interesting process that it's made me appreciate a different form of craftsmanship. And I think this is maybe reading your show notes, why people get interested in the watch world. It's like, how does it work? And you start, I started reading your show notes and I got, I went totally down the ADD rabbit hole for like the next thing you know, like processes and how things are made. But I love that. I love that there is so much going on in there. inside that little box, but for us to use it is so simple. And I think that's pretty cool. |
| Jason Heaton | And they last, you know, they're, they're, they're, they're tools that have built in longevity and you'll probably be wearing that one for, for many years to come. I mean, although being as a citizen ambassador, they'll probably keep giving you new stuff to wear, but, but it's, you know, it's stuff that like your kids might be interested in, in, you know, five, 10 years and, and that sort of thing. So that's, that's the other thing I like about them. They're, they're, they're durable goods. |
| Will Gadd | They are durable goods. I like that. I like that a lot too. I'm going to bang on the table with mine here. And you know, I know it's still going to work. I'm pretty sure you can drive nails. Actually don't do that. It's a bad idea. A citizen is probably not impressed with my commentary at this point, but they are, as you say, durable. So, uh, yeah. |
| James Stacey | Yeah. I'm curious while we have just a few more minutes here, what, um, What's on the horizon for the connection with Citizen and the projects that you've got kind of on the calendar for the coming year? Anything that people could kind of follow along with or attach with? |
| Will Gadd | Yeah, there's a couple of things. I mean, my social media, I'll have more on this shortly and Citizen will probably put some things up as well. But I'm doing an interesting project with ash layers on the summit of a peak near my house and looking at how forest fire ash affects melt. Obviously, it does. So we've had a lot more forest fires here. And how has that The ash spreads in the glacier, makes things melt quicker, which is kind of a feedback loop because then you end up with higher temperatures and less water. And so working on that and then also a project in Antarctica in 2025. And we're going to try. Yeah, that this is something like from the outside, people like, oh, you're succeeding at things. And internally, there's a lot of failure. And this is like failure. You're number eight on this project. We had to go ahead before COVID and then it fell apart. that we're putting together. So, you know, failure year number eight or something, but it looks like we'll get it done is going to Antarctica and trying to put a human scale on some of the climate change stories from Antarctica. So, you know, that's, those are the big ones right now. And yeah, I did a neat project recently with looking at how earth formed. So we were, we were getting rock samples halfway off, halfway up a cliff in Baffin Island. for Professor Lydia Hollis, who's a planetary geologist. Like I didn't know there was such a thing as a planetary geologist, but she looks at how planets form. So we're getting rock samples to figure out how much water was on Earth as it kind of formed. And from a diving perspective, you'll be glad to know that billions of years ago, there was a lot more water than people thought there was. But again, it's just exploring the world and trying to figure out how things work and understanding it. It's just fascinating. |
| James Stacey | And if people would like to follow along, what's the best? What's the best plan? The best ways to connect? |
| Will Gadd | Do you prefer social media is that the website at real will get on Instagram is probably the most active and this time of year, it's filled with more ice climbing than you'll than you'll ever need in your life. But various things will go up there and announcements about projects and things like that. And I'm also on threads and x and most of the other platforms out there. That's part of I Well, that's great. Well, we appreciate your time here and I just got to say it's been such a thrill to |
| Jason Heaton | To finally meet you and talk to you and, uh, you know, been following you for years and, and we're really pleased that, uh, you agreed to come on the show and join us. |
| Will Gadd | Well, thank you. And I'm really sincere about this. I really enjoyed talking with you. I'm interested in what you do and I would love to learn more about things. So if you want to come out and go ice climbing for a day, that's a, that's a standing offer. And, uh, I would love to, the diving's not great here, but we do have a couple of interesting dives. Um, I'm sure hook you guys up with that as well. |
| James Stacey | And, uh, yeah, no bad day in the water. |
| Will Gadd | No bad day in the water. Yeah. It's so true. Just yeah, really interesting talking to you guys and your show notes took me on a journey and I've subscribed and look forward to hearing more of your episodes. |
| James Stacey | That's great. Well, look, maybe we can do we can do a follow up on a future project, maybe the Antarctica trip in person or maybe even on the side of some sort of ice BOVAC scenario. We'll see. |
| Will Gadd | I'd love it. Let's let's do it. Yeah, I really enjoyed my time with you both. Take care. |
| James Stacey | Alright, so as always, we've got nothing but thank yous for Will for coming on the show and for Citizen for making that happen. If you get a chance, you know, to cross paths with Citizen, please say thank you for us. You know, we've been very happy with that relationship and, and to be connected with a guy like Will is a real treat, but be sure to follow along on his Instagram and also his website and we'll have further news from some of those projects in the future. I would love to have Will back on. So you can find all of that in the show notes, of course, at thegreatnado.com or If you're listening to this via the email, it's right in your inbox. So that's pretty easy, but a huge shout out to a will for coming on the show and being so keen to kind of talk about a pretty wide range of topics. And again, to a citizen for making it all happen. So look, we're, uh, we're pushing the time limit here, which, uh, I always enjoys, but, uh, do you want to dig into some final notes? |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah, sure. Um, mine is, uh, it's actually another podcast and it's a new one from a long time, uh, kind of hero of, of both of us, uh, Ben Saunders, the renowned polar explorer, um, who was a Bremont ambassador for, for many years. And I I'd been wondering what Ben was up to, uh, in the past couple of years. And lo and behold, he's just launched a new podcast and it's called new frontiers. And, uh, he's got some promising guests lined up. It looks like in his first episode came out last week and it's with rain Wilson, who some might remember as a Dwight Schrute from the office. Um, I recently saw him starring in uh, lessons, lessons in chemistry, the kind of the, the, I believe it's on Apple TV. It's a series with, uh, with, with, uh, Brie Larson and Rainn Wilson is in that one as well, playing a very different sort of character. Um, he's so talented. Yeah, he is. And he's, I guess he's quite a climate activist as well. And that's why Ben had him on his podcast. And, uh, Ben is such a, a treat to listen to. He's got a great voice and he's an intelligent, uh, well-traveled, well-read, uh, interesting guy. And, uh, I think he's, he's got, uh, some good success lined up for him with this podcast. So if you're looking for another kind of new podcast from, from an interesting guy, uh, on a variety of topics, check out a new frontiers and we'll throw a link in the show notes for that. |
| James Stacey | Absolutely. I am subscribing as we speak. That's very cool. And on the off chance that Ben is listening to this, uh, kudos on a new podcast. That's rad. Yeah. It's very, very rare. Uh, you know, we had it with the deep track just recently with Blake coming on and now with, uh, Ben to actually start a podcast where it starts. Yeah, true. Uh, as much as I enjoy finding a podcast three, four years into the run and having a back catalog, it's kind of cool to start at the start, be part of the original kind of crew. Yeah. And, um, and then if you get kind of deeper into the process, then you're, you're on the inside jokes and it, it also helps with these kind of, you know, from the looks of this show, new frontiers, uh, you know, it'll be largely interview based, uh, And the earlier you start, the better you'll understand Ben and his perspective. So I think there's some value in, in kicking those sorts of things off early. Yeah, for sure. Which is cool. Yeah. Glad to see Ben working in the space. Love, love to see more podcasts, especially from, from people that we know and kind of have appreciated for some time. So that's cool. Yeah. All right. What do you have? Yeah. So mine's a very different sort of pick than a cool new podcast from Ben Saunders, but it's actually just a, a little add on pouch that I found on Amazon. I spoke at the top of the show about wanting to kind of fine-tune that Dyneema bullet from GORUCK, the backpack that you got me for travel, and I felt that there were kind of two things missing. One was kind of a fast-access pocket because it's sort of a slick version. It's not determined as slick, which is a specific thing in the GORUCK world, but it doesn't have the MOLLE. on the lower side, and there's no MOLLE on kind of the inside plate, which is... My GR1 has both of those. And so with this, I wanted some sort of a pouch. It didn't need to be especially large, I didn't even want something big enough for a passport. I always have a pants pocket, which I'm comfortable with the passport, because I can do the padding, my thighs, phone in one, passport in the other, we're good. Yeah. When I'm not sure where things are, but I wanted something that could hold keys, um, AirPods, maybe a credit card, that sort of stuff. Like, so it's just right there. And I did some searching around and thankfully the sizing that was listed on Amazon was accurate, but I found this really good pouch and it's 20 bucks right now. It comes in three different colors. My backpack is black, so I bought the black one and it's this sort of, um, shaped little zippered pouch with an internal like cinched pocket. So it kind of has two, two stages to the pocket. Yeah. I find that when you want something like this, the Amazon world has either options from like airsoft. So it'll be military adjacent, but not, not strictly military stuff. Or I think with this one, it looks like it's connected to maybe a medical use. So maybe this would be part of a rigged array that a paramedic or somebody might use. And I could see it being quite useful for that. It has a loop for an additional, like, let's say you wanted to run a, a carabiner or something off of the bottom. Yeah. And otherwise it's designed to both loop around the strap. And I didn't find... I was worried that the straps that hold it to the main strap of your backpack would be uncomfortable. T-shirt, jacket, all that stuff, not uncomfortable. Didn't even notice it really. But you can open... Because of the shape of the zipper, you can open and close it with one hand. Oh, yeah. Super useful, especially for AirPods. So for 20 bucks, I'm thrilled with it. That's my final note. You can catch it in the show notes. But if you've got a backpack, big, small, and just want you know, it's not going to hold a water bottle. It's not that big. Like I said, it's not going to hold a passport. Um, I think you, you could put a small wallet in it or it's, it's stuff like AirPods keys, maybe a knife, that sort of thing. Yeah. I'm very impressed with it. It doesn't seem to have a brand U B E F is the listed brand from Amazon, but it's just called a backpack strap pouch clip on pouch mesh pocket, double layers, sturdy for cell phone or medical supplies. I'm not sure it's even big enough to hold my 12 pro max, some cell phones for sure. Um, but probably not like a, you might want to find a larger size. The fact is that if you can spend, I spent like probably an hour and a half on Amazon looking at various things that were the result of backpack strap pouch on Amazon. So it's all a question of how long you're willing to like click through, look at the dimensions. You know, at some point I was considering like taking a piece of cardboard and like cutting out the same dimensions and seeing how it would actually. Sure. And then I was like, look, this will be here tomorrow. I could return it for free. So I just ordered it super happy with it. It's got a Velcro on the front, so you can put a patch or a name tag or something like that on it. Um, uh, and, and for me, it was, uh, absolutely worth the $20. I'm pretty happy with it. And it makes the bag even a step more useful to have a little pocket that you don't have to take the bag off to get to. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah, that's, uh, that's super cool. And it's very timely because I've been kind of looking for a similar solution, um, as I've been Ramping up some training for the fan dance and doing a lot more with, you know, running and hiking around with, uh, with a weighted backpack. Um, it's, it's always nice to have a place other than a, like a thigh pocket or a jacket, you know, pouch pocket or something for my phone or for, you know, an energy bar or whatever else. So yeah, I'll have to check this out. Very cool. |
| James Stacey | Yeah. And then just to finish the loop, the other thing I added was essentially zipper locks. It's just one big pocket, essentially, the bullet. Yeah. And I feel like while I don't spend a lot of time in places where pickpocketing is prevalent, if you do the bag or if you just wanted a quick access, it's a very simple move to unzip this bag. And so I bought these... I can put them in the show notes, but they're essentially like little tiny double carabiners. And you clip them in. And then once it's on, it does take some specific focus and intent to unclip. Like you wouldn't be able to do with one hand or, or like, while I was walking that sort of thing, or unless you're maybe like, you know, David Blaine or something, but, uh, um, yeah, I, I, it's, it's a nice little thing where if I knew I was walking somewhere where I thought, oh, I'd rather be really sure of it not being easy to get into this bag. You just quickly, I leave it clipped to one and can lash it to the other in there, but maybe Three quarters of an inch long. |
| Unknown | Huh. |
| James Stacey | Very cool. |
| Jason Heaton | All right. Good, uh, good, useful final note. And, um, that that'll do it. That, uh, takes us to the end of this episode. Again, thanks to Citizen for connecting us with Will Gadd and to Will Gadd for joining us. That was a, that was a delightful episode and I hope everybody enjoyed that. And as always, thanks so much for listening. If you want to subscribe to the show notes, get into the comments for each episode or consider supporting the show directly, and maybe even grab a new TGN signed NATO. And we leave you with this quote courtesy of Wilgad's email signature. It's from Marcus Aurelius who said, |