The Grey NATO – 258 – Book Club 3

Published on Thu, 19 Oct 2023 06:00:00 -0400

Synopsis

This podcast episode features a discussion between James and Jason, the co-hosts. They start by catching up on recent activities like Jason's Land Rover repair project and James' trip to Germany for a Leica event. They talk about the new Leica ZM11 watch that was announced. Then they move into the main topic which is a book club segment where each host recommends three books they've read recently. James recommends "Heat 2" by Michael Mann, "Rogues" by Patrick Radden Keefe, and "Jurassic Park" by Michael Crichton. Jason recommends "The Apollo Murders" by Chris Hadfield, "In Cold Blood" by Truman Capote, and "The Twilight World" by Werner Herzog. They discuss the books and what they enjoyed about them. For the final notes, Jason talks about wildlife photographer Laurent Ballesta winning an award, and James recommends a rowing workout video series.

Transcript

Speaker
James Stacey Hello, and welcome to another episode of the Graynado. It's a loose discussion of travel, adventure, diving, driving gear, and will certainly watches this episode 258. And it's proudly brought to you by the always growing TGN supporter crew. We thank you all so much for your continued support. And if you'd like to support the show, please visit thegraynado.com for more details. For those of you who might be listening relatively new to the show. My name is James Stacy. I'm joined by as always, with my co host Jason Heaton. Jason, how are we doing?
Jason Heaton I'm doing pretty well. Gosh, it seems strange to do an introduction, but we're probably overdue. We probably should do that more often for new listeners.
James Stacey I think we might need to write it into the blurb at the top. I think we used to do that. We used to give our names. But then you look and a few percent growth each month are people that at least Buzzspout believes has never listened to the podcast before and they might be like, Man, these guys like to some extent sound identical and say similar things.
Jason Heaton Who's who. Yeah.
James Stacey So, uh, yeah. Uh, the, uh, the lesser of the two voices is me, James and the, uh, the salty tones of, uh, of the Minnesotan kid, uh, Jason there on the other end of the line. But, uh, yeah, I'm, I'm in a bit of a weird mood. I'm pretty sleepy. Uh, it's, it's not that weird of a time for us to record. It's a little earlier than normal, but a day late because I was busy yesterday.
Unknown Yeah.
James Stacey And, uh, and yeah, I feel a little bit, um, a little bit, not, not all the way awake yet. Maybe the coffee hasn't hit or.
Jason Heaton Yeah, I feel the same way. I'm not sure. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe it'll, it'll lend an interesting perspective on the show today.
James Stacey Yeah. It might be a little goofier than normal, but, uh, what, what have you been up to since, uh, we recorded last?
Jason Heaton Well, I was, I was elbows deep in a Land Rover project, uh, over the weekend and kind of bled into Monday. I, um, gosh, it was, uh, a little over a week ago. I think it was that. driving randomly one day going to get some firewood or something and the windshield wipers stopped halfway up the windscreen. After a lot of YouTube watching and reading and thumbing through the manual, I narrowed down what I figured were a few of the causes and I just kind of started disassembling and testing things and changing parts. I took apart the steering column and put a new switch on and then Took a look at the wiper motor and replaced a little switch on that. And then finally took the entire dashboard off and, and traced all the wiring and, uh, found that there was a loose connection at the back of the fuse panel and a missing relay that I, I added and put everything back together. But it was, it was one of those jobs, like, you know, I, I, as people know from the show, uh, I, and we don't swear very much. In fact, we don't swear at all on the show and I don't do it in general, but man, when I'm That's the one time you might hear some salty language from me is when I'm out putzing with the Land Rover, you know, bloody knuckles and the whole bit. So my apologies to any of the people walking their dogs by while I was, you know, hunkered over, you know, shouting obscenities. But the work is done. It seems to work.
James Stacey That happens to the best of us. Yeah. Right. Yeah. That can be, uh, that can be, that can be tough. It's smart. It is genuinely smart because you're, you're talking to a guy who's probably going to end up doing the opposite. Um, but it's smart to try and get a few of those things done before it's too cold to turn them on. Yeah. Yeah. Um, or let alone be outside, even in the garage, like you've got a garage. I could probably back, I could get most of the cheap into the garage, but like, I think we're going to have one of those winters that hits pretty hard. Like come January, that seems to be what people are suggesting. But who really knows, right? Yeah. And you don't want to like delay. It's one thing to be like, I'll do it after summer. Like we're, we're using the vehicle pretty frequently. I don't want to take a day off the road or out of service or whatever. And, and yeah, then you blink and it's like, well, now it's too cold to fix that. So I don't have wiper blades in the winter.
Jason Heaton Yeah. Yeah. I, I was, that was definitely on my mind and then it's, it's kind of a busy week for, for me and, and, uh, and then, yeah, the days are getting shorter. It's getting colder. And, and while, The smaller Land Rover without the roof fits in the garage. This is parked next to it in the driveway. So, you know, I'm thinking to myself like every sunny day is one more march towards cold and snow. And so I was motivated and got that done. But yeah, knock on wood, it works fine and all's well. But yeah, winter's coming. And speaking of busy weeks, this is just a bit of a side note that people might get a kick out of. I've got my high school class reunion this Saturday night, and it's the first one I've been to Decades. So it should be, it should be a fun where Kashani and I are going to drive down to Milwaukee where I grew up and, and attend that and check in with, with old friends I haven't seen in many years, most probably since graduation and try to explain to them exactly what I do with my life now.
James Stacey You just want to have like a little pamphlet.
Jason Heaton Yeah, I think so. Yeah. It's always hard to look. It's a podcast. Oh, what's it called? The gray NATO. What's a NATO? What's a, you know, it's like, Oh boy. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. So, but anyway, that's a, that's my life. Yeah. And what about you? You're back from, you're back from Germany. You, uh, you went to like, I saw the watch, I saw your review. It looks pretty cool. Uh, how was the trip?
James Stacey The trip was great. Yeah. Uh, easy trip in. You always meet like a, a cast and crew of people there. There were only a few folks. Uh, Juan and Take and, and that, that were there that I recognized from years before in the Leica team is, is largely the same. Uh, so I got to meet some new photographers and folks like that. And then, yeah, I got to see, um, got to see some watches, uh, you know, the, the main thing being that they used this event, which is the annual celebration of photography. I've talked about in the past, I've done Hodinkee podcasts from there in the past. I think this is my third or fourth time going and, uh, they used the event to, you know, last year it was largely the M6 with the, you know, the rehash of the M6, basically a direct recreation, but with modern standards. And then, uh, this year they announced the ZM11. Um, so those of you who maybe don't pay much attention to Leica's watches, which, uh, as a watch enthusiast, I can, to a certain extent, understand not accepting a non-endemic brand into the fold. Leica announced back in, I think 2018, the intention to make the L1 and L2, And then those watches actually came out sort of last year as exceedingly limited, mostly due to production scale. They're making less than a thousand a year of the L1 and L2, which have since been renamed the ZM and ZM... ZM1 and ZM2. Hope everybody's following along so far. It's just two watches. The original two were very low five figure watches, I think, The L1 was right around 10 grand and the L2 is right around 14, it being a GMT. These are highly customized, you know, proprietary movements from a German firm, basically fully German sort of watches, but quite high end, very hard to come by. And I think, surprising to me, Jason, you can weigh in, of course, but as it turns out, quite successful. Um, you know, only offered in a few stores around the world and 30% of the, of the ZM one and ZM twos were sold to people who've never owned a Leica before, which I find shocking.
Jason Heaton Huh? So they went and do you, do you think those people wouldn't sought them out or do you think they were in the camera store browsing for cameras and saw this, this watch and thought, I genuinely don't, I genuinely don't know.
James Stacey I think, I think that, um, I would say some of that percentage has to come from the two cultures that love engineering possibly more than any else, Germany and Japan. Maybe there's a pull there, but the watches were successful despite the fact that a lot of the enthusiast culture kind of wrote off the concept. I took a very considered and in-depth look at them, of the ZM2, to be fair, and really enjoyed the watch. And then now they're following up with the ZM11, which is an entire sort of rethinking. Different case, a Swiss movement now instead of a German movement, movement is from chronode. It's a 60-hour, 4 hertz automatic movement with a date. Nice looking movement for sure. The watches are in the range of like $6,800 to $8,200. And you can get them in steel or titanium. I think of it like they hit me a little bit like... The dial design is a little bit Hallios, like a tropic. It has that just kind of stark clarity, large markers, that sort of thing. Or the, sorry, the Seaforth more than the Tropic. And then, but beyond that, they have a bit of like an Ichapod vibe, but a little bit more brutalist than Scandinavian, if that makes sense, where the Ichapods are all curves. This is a nice sort of mix of hard angles meeting curvature. It's a 41 millimeter watch, regardless of the metal you choose. It comes in three dial arrays. One is a, The concept of the dial is like shutters on a window. So there's a top color and then there's indents or lines kind of in some ways similar to say like a modern Seamaster with the waves. But these are straight lines and they're asymmetrical in terms of their layout. And there's a color under that. So the blue one has black under that. That's pretty subtle. The brown black version, what they call coffee black or coffee brown. I can't remember. is like a gradient dial that has a brown accent. And then the launch edition is a black dial with red in the shutters, the blinds, whatever you want to call it. Oh yeah. Yeah. It's like actually pretty subtle. You kind of have to turn the watch and it has to catch the little well of the finishing to actually fire. But when it does, it's a cool, especially black red is quite a cool look. Otherwise it's a single crown to operate a very conventional, straightforward sort of watch. I saw lots of, especially on the bracelet, I saw lots of comparisons to like, Apple watch kind of aesthetics to ocean 2000s, like early, earlier IWC stuff, kind of curvy titanium, but too lush at the same time. I think some of those comments were meant as a dig like that, what these designs, but those are both watches in my mind that are quite beautiful.
Unknown Yeah.
James Stacey Like I'm kind of hit or miss on the aesthetic of the Apple watch. And obviously there's no like in a factory integrated bracelet for an Apple watch to my understanding anyways. But the Leica one is quite nice. It's one of those like, deeply articulated, similar to what you see on like a Moser Streamliner. And it gives the watch this integrated look because it's hooded lugs with a push button release. So if you turn the watch over on either of the two, any of the two strap ends, the lug connectors have like a little button very similar to what you would find on like the lens release on a M. Yeah. And you can pop the strap off and put another one on and mix and match various ones with various cases. And if you buy a titanium case, then the straps have titanium hardware or the bracelet is titanium. It's that sort of thing. I don't know how to read necessarily like how successful these will be. The decision to go to a lower price point and a more readily produced movement or a movement that can be produced at a higher production scale would suggest that they intend to sell more than say the thousand or so that they sell the ZM1 and 2 right now. Yeah. Otherwise, I mean, as, as just a watch, I think it's nice. I like them. I largely find them inoffensive. I think when I think of Leica, I think of cameras and that's the product I like from them. And I don't know that I personally would want a Leica watch, but I was there with other folks who were kind of watch and camera people. And they were very excited about these watches. You know, they weren't necessarily professionals in, the kit, the watch space.
Unknown Yeah.
James Stacey Um, but they, they enjoyed watches, had nice watches with them. We're talking long as Rolex is that sort of thing. And, uh, and then you get in chats with the folks and they're like, Oh, I want that blue one. Or I'll see if I'm going to, can get a launch edition or I have an L two. So I don't think I need the, or sorry, pardon. I have a ZM too. So I don't think I need the 11, but I do really like the product. So it's, it has a home. I just think it's one of those ones where the, the overlapping, the sort of Venn diagram of like, hardcore watch enthusiasts, those who are, you know, all over a Hodinkee comment section or otherwise, or, you know, deep into watch Instagram are kind of hard on a lot of stuff. And I think the, the like is a good target for that sort of a vibe. But then on the other side, there seems to be a group of people that know and enjoy Leica and don't mind extending that knowledge and joy to a watch, which I can't really argue with. Theoretically next year, there'll be an essentially any store that carries Leica. the next time you're out to the big city or whatever or downtown and trying to kill time on a lunch break, swing by and take a peek. It doesn't cost anything to look at them.
Jason Heaton I guess the risk in that crossover for in terms of the, the, the point of sale is that, that you're going to have a staff in the, in these stores that are used to selling cameras and know a lot about cameras. And then you're expecting them to talk to potentially a knowledgeable watch enthusiast who's going to come in and be looking at the watch and then, and then they're going to have to kind of talk them through it. But then, you know, that's, That's a minor point that I'm sure they can overcome, but I was curious about the event itself because, you know, it was a, it was a celebration of photography event. Um, and I, and you as well, obviously have been to many watch launches and press events for, for watches. And how did they switch gears between, you know, kind of a photography event? And then if we can have your attention, please, we have something to show you. And then, I mean, was it, was it run like kind of a typical watch launch or was it sort of an aside to the main event?
James Stacey Yeah, these things at the Leica compound, which is called Lights Park in Wetzlar, but just outside of downtown Wetzlar, but in the area of Wetzlar, Germany, just north of Frankfurt, they run it a little bit more like a convention. You get a paper and they text it to you, but you get a paper schedule and that's kind of your schedule and you'll walk around with other people and go, hey, are you going to this thing next? And they have something else. Oh, I see. Everybody's kind of going to different programs. And so I was on sort of a watch specific program and then that deal also included an exclusive that I can't talk about yet, which may or may not be watch related, but it is Leica related. So that was kind of my program was the watch tuned one, whereas there were other folks there who were on more of a camera tuned one. And then the main evening events were kind of for everyone. I see. But yeah, other than that, I enjoyed the watch and the trip was great. And the other side of it was I got home and now I'm home for a little while. Nice. I don't think I'm traveling until Dubai Watch Week. which should be good. And yeah, just kind of hanging out at home, messing around with some stupid projects. Do you know who Dan Flavin is or Flavin? I don't. He's an artist that works in like neon tubes. Oh. If you've ever been to like Dia Beacon or, but it's these arrays of like neon tubes.
Unknown Yeah.
James Stacey That sometimes are like, it'll be like a single one in a corner and it's the, you know, it's, and it's essentially installation art.
Unknown Yeah.
James Stacey I've really wanted one of those lights for my living room. And I'd probably like to, if I can make one or design one that I'm happy with, that integrates with the smart light system in my office, I'd like one in the office as well. So I went, I thought I had a good idea and it turned out not to work. It turns out they make, they make like spray paint that's frosted glass. Wow. Okay. I didn't, I don't, my mind can't quite wrap around the idea of translucent spray paint, but okay. Yeah. And, uh, and so I bought a, like a T eight guard. So if you know, like, like strip lighting for a ceiling, those bulbs are coming T sizes. And then back in the day when the CFL bulbs would have, um, like glass housing, you, you could buy a guard that would slide over those and then install. So if, if the light took a big hit and broke, it would contain the stuff. Yeah. Um, so I bought one of those housings. It's just like a T eight guards, like eight bucks at home Depot. Mm. And I bought a whiz like led strip, you know, like it's two, two meters of foldable soft material that has leds in it. And then the smart controller and I spray painted it, frosted it. And I did like, I don't know, I maybe have to do like 80 more coats. I have no idea, but then I've run the system up into the bulb and it looks good. It's about, it's a little less than four feet long and it's nice and bright. But the problem is that the, the frosting isn't enough to properly occlude the intensity of the LEDs. So it just looks like something from like a, like a carnival. You can see every hot point from the LED. Yeah. Yeah. And I want, like, if you look up, I'll put some in the, in the show notes of Flavin's work. If you look it up, it's like the light is like a lightsaber, like it's smooth and even and kind of white hot in the center. Yeah. And they come in different sizes. So look, if anybody listening is going like, I know exactly what the thing is that you're trying to buy. Mm. It either needs to be like smart. So like on the Phillips or whiz or can integrate with Google home or needs to have a heart, what I would call like a dead switch or a hard switch so that I can connect it to a, a smart, a smart plug.
Jason Heaton Oh sure.
James Stacey And to turn it on and off. But I like some of these ones cause you see them and they could change color and whiz makes a version of this sort of, that's like a lamp that sits in the corner. It's a little bit too, not what I'm looking for. I want like basically it just looks like a raw bulb of neon that you can like lean against the wall or put behind a couch for a backlight or that sort of thing. So reaching out to the crew on this one as I have hunted around and the stuff that I can find that makes sense is so expensive. Oh yeah. Like just impressively so. Yeah. Um, so yeah, that's, that's basically the dumb project I'm working on.
Jason Heaton Well, it's good, good that you're home and you, you've got the time to kind of putz with that. I mean that's, that's what being home is all about. That's what we miss when we travel. Right. You, you, you know, you think about all these things that you want to get done and then you can, finally get the time to do it. So that's, that's great.
James Stacey Yeah. I'm going to start, I'm starting a new career as a guy that makes led lights.
Jason Heaton Well, we've got a fun show, one that we haven't a topic or a kind of a part of our series that we haven't done in quite some time. Um, but before we jump into book club, uh, what do you have on your wrist?
James Stacey Yeah, I'm wearing another new GMT. Uh, that's the citizen series eight GMT. They've loaned me one of the sort of Pepsi, the blue red with the blue dial example.
Unknown Yeah.
James Stacey This one I was kind of interested in when it was announced, I wrote up the story. It's a 41 millimeter flyer GMT from the brand sort of agenda ask, you know, integrated sports bracelet sort of watch, which is the series eight. This uses the 9054, which is similar to the Miyota 9075. It's a four hertz 50 hour power reserve movement with a flying GMT, which is great, you know, similar movement that we've seen in that Bulova that we've talked about recently and movie that we, you know, slowly seeing in more and more watches pricing $1,700. So you're above the collar dive GMT from Seiko, the SPB 383 and similar. Um, and, and you're a, a small jump up from, or I guess a decent, you're a bit of a jump up from the Bolivar and that sort of thing. Um, but I think the idea is that this feels like maybe a more luxurious experience with the bracelet.
Jason Heaton Yeah, they had these, I think there were just, released or just announced shortly before wind up in Chicago, I believe. Um, and I remember they had them at their booth there, um, or I'm not sure if it was the series eight GMT or just the series eight, but, uh, uh, they had them at windup.
James Stacey That's where we saw them first. Yeah.
Jason Heaton Yeah. They're, they're, they're nice looking watches. They definitely feel kind of a step up from what you normally expect when you handle a citizen, even in, in just the aesthetics, but also in the field. I mean, they, they just, they feel a lot more luxurious than, than the citizens I've been used to. Um, but, but they also have this, heft to them, right? I mean, they, they look big and I don't know, not having had a chance to wear one. Do they, do they wear big?
James Stacey They kind of wear big, but not actually on your wrist. Like I have it on and it has this chunkiness to it that I like, but you know, when the watch is kind of smaller than it's chunkiness on your wrist, it's kind of that vibe. It's, it's a little bit difficult to explain because they're heavy. They're a little on the thick side, the bracelets, like not a slight dressy bracelet. It feels quite sporty. Yeah. They have a nice sort of, um, you know, profile in that they're, they're big, but because of the very short lugs, thanks to the integrated bracelet and the drape of the bracelet itself, I found them just very comfortable. I think I like most of the vibe here. I just wish they had an option with like maybe a more basic dial. Right. Right. Both of the steel versions have this sort of carbon fibery blue or black dial. Yeah. And I think, especially in the red blue. So this one, I have the blue of the dial. is very different than the blue of the bezel. And then the GMT hand is, has an orange pointer, which I don't really get. Oh yeah. How did we get to orange? Yeah. Um, it's not bad. I just think like if this, if either the dial color was darker blue, so it matched the bezel, it might feel a little bit more cohesive. And I feel like a Navy blue and orange makes more sense than like a Royal blue and orange, but there's definitely nothing wrong with blue and orange. It was a perfect color combo. Yeah. I like the date execution. I like the big markers. The bezel is quite easy to use and quiet, bi-directional. Not the kind of thing you're going to bump or set incorrectly, but a nice, smooth, quiet, you know, you wouldn't mind quickly spinning this in a quiet airplane or something like that. There's no such thing as a quiet airplane. Anyways. Um, but yeah, I'm, I'm impressed by it. I like it. I think it's, it's another like interesting option at this price point. The gold one, which is a gold tone with sort of a Brown and off white bezel has like a frosted texture to the dial that I think looks pretty cool. And, and I saw that one briefly in person at wind up and it looked pretty good.
Jason Heaton I think they're handsome watches. They're just not, there's not a lot that's subtle about them. And I think there's it, you know, the case design, the bracelet, everything's very bold. And then you add the, texture of the dial and the, and the bright colors. And it's, it's just a bit, it's a bit much for my taste. Um, but I, I do think they look very premium. I think they look like a real kind of step up for, for citizens. So yeah, cool. Cool piece.
James Stacey Yep. And I mean, and it's citizens, so you never really know what could happen. We could see the stealth version of this and titanium and gray. Yeah. You could keep the orange GMT hand. And I think it would feel a little bit more for lack of a better term, like tactical rather than sort of Lux. Yeah. Um, but I think for the Lux thing and for the price point, they've done a nice job, 13 and a half millimeters thick for a watch with, um, uh, you know, a GMT movement and, and a chunky bezel and, and water resistance of a hundred meters. Uh, not too bad. Uh, it's a passive crown for those wondering. So that's your, that's your a hundred meters. It doesn't screw down. Yeah. Citizen doing it, doing what they do.
Jason Heaton Yeah. Right. Well, mine's quick and easy. You want to talk some books? Well, yeah, I mean... Oh, we've got your watch. Well, my watch is predictable. It's a given. Yeah, I still have the Pelagos FXD on. Sorry to be a broken record here, I'm still in love with it. And I almost think it's not even so much that anymore, which I am, I still love this watch, but it's just so comfortable and such a versatile and kind of perfect thing to wear in terms of weight and strap comfort and timekeeping and all that, that I just don't have any need to take it off. I almost forget I have it on all the time now. Um, you know, I had it on the whole time I was, you know, fiddling with the defender and I take it running. I've been kind of leaving the Garmin behind. And, um, so yeah, it's just kind of become, become an easy sort of one watch. Um, and I, gosh, it must be coming up on a month with it now, which, uh, used to seem like a long time to wear just one piece, but not with this one.
James Stacey So very nice. Yeah, I'm glad. Yeah. All right. Now, do you want to talk some books?
Jason Heaton Let's talk some books. Yeah, we've, we've done, uh, I think only two book club episodes before this. We did one during isolation tapes that was back during COVID back in 2020. Um, and then we did a second one, I think it was episode two 22. And, uh, so yeah, we've, we had a fairly short list and I think, you know, whereas with film club, we, we usually do, five movies a piece. We're with book club, you know, books take longer to read, find, et cetera. Uh, we're going with three books each for, for book club and yeah, it looks like we have a pretty interesting list from what I'm checking out in the notes here today.
James Stacey So yeah, I think it's a fun one. You want to give one of them first?
Jason Heaton Yeah, sure. You know, a lot of my books that I'm doing these days, uh, are, are read or listened to actually as audio books. And so it was pretty easy to kind of go back through my audio book app and kind of look at my history. And a couple stood out. And two of the three here are from audio books I've listened to in the past couple of years. And the first one is from a Canadian, Chris Hadfield, the retired astronaut who's known for singing up in the space station. A number of talks he's done. He's a Speedmaster guy, just an interesting, smart, funny guy. And he wrote his first novel uh... a couple of years ago and it's called the apollo murders and i think i talked about this in a final note uh... a while back uh... but i i wanted to include this in book club because it is an excellent book and it's it's so it's a mystery as the name suggests uh... it's it's fiction but you know given hadfield's experience as an astronaut and and living on the space station and kind of just being being one of those guys who loves to educate people about space travel uh... you can really tell that he has the knowledge of of that subject matter, and then he combines it with a really engaging murder mystery. And it's set back in the early 70s in a fictional Apollo 18 mission, actually 1973. So, you know, we know that there were 17 Apollo missions in reality. And in the case of this book, he postulates or puts forward this idea that there's a final top secret mission to the moon called Apollo 18. And it's kind of told from the perspective of a former sort of semi-retired pilot slash astronaut who has called in to work at mission control to kind of oversee some security measures with this final flight. And lo and behold, there's some intrigue that goes on with sort of someone who isn't what he seems and some intrigue both on the ground and orbiting the planet. And it is a really gripping story. And so if you're, if you're someone who likes kind of the history of the space race, uh, which to me, this, this era kind of that Mercury, Mercury and Apollo era of, of space travel and kind of the competition with the Soviets at the time, uh, is always just so interesting to read. I loved, you know, the right stuff and, uh, Apollo 13 and all these stories. And this fits right in, in a fictionalized way. And he does a great job. Uh, I really, really highly recommend this book. He's written a followup now. I don't think it's a sequel by any means. I can't wait to read his second novel, but I can't recommend this book enough to somebody that's looking for a, a good murder mystery, but also one that, that is set during, during a really interesting time in human history and, and Hadfield's just great. So yeah, the Apollo murders.
James Stacey Yeah. That's great. I wonder, I wonder if you went back and do you remember there's like a found footage horror film called Apollo 18?
Jason Heaton I do remember that.
James Stacey I'd never saw it. Yeah. Yeah. Over a decade ago, right? Yeah. It's gotta be at this point, 2010, something like that. Yeah. I remember watching that and being like, this is a neat premise of like, you know, some sort of presence on the moon. Right. Right. That said, this book by Hatfield sounds quite a bit more, I don't know, derived from reality to a certain extent, right? Yeah. Yeah. That's cool. Yeah. I think I used to live near him.
Jason Heaton Oh really?
James Stacey Okay.
Jason Heaton I think so. Yeah. I think he posts occasionally on Instagram. He's got, he's got a cottage somewhere probably in the same neck of the woods as maybe it's even on your same lake. You'll see him out there diving one day. You had a field.
James Stacey I mean, an astronaut's probably up in the Muskoka is not, not down in the quarters with us. But yeah, that's great. It's been on my Kindle list since you recommended it. Yeah. So it will live there until I get to get to another book. But I guess I'll jump in with my first. I've got I really I wanted to make an effort to not just pick ones. These are almost exclusively ones we have talked about in the past, but I didn't want to pick ones that were like really obvious choices. I look back over the list from the previous two, which I think is Episode 104 and 183. OK. I believe we're the book clubs one and two. And I wanted to shift things a little bit. And also, definitely since we did 104, partly because of... Actually, exclusively because of you, Jason. First, your love of Bond. And then second, your foray as a thriller writer has kind of changed my tune on fiction. So I wanted to represent at least a little bit of that. And also to keep it timely, because last week it was announced that this will be Michael Mann's next movie. So we're going to start, we're going to kick off a book club three with a heat two, which I talked about when it came out. Yeah, I read it. I think I probably finished it the weekend it came out. I absolutely loved it. Wow. Um, and then I, you know, 10 days ago at this time or something, uh, Michael Mann confirmed that that'll be his next movie. Uh, the book came out while they were working on Ferrari, which I believe is out or about to be out. And, um, and then, The next one will be Heat 2, which is sort of a prequel and a sequel to Heat. It gives you the earlier... So it gives you kind of the background on Macaulay's crew, which is De Niro's character in the movie, who we believe will be played by Adam Driver in the future one as young Macaulay. and or younger Macaulay. And then it also gives you Vincent Hanna's like a group that he worked with or, uh, you know, a cop outfit, I believe in Chicago that he worked with before the L.A. story picks up. Then the movie transitions to kind of the day after where heat ends. Oh, really? Jumps ahead in time. Chris Sheherlis moving forward and and kind of tells the next wave of his story. So that was Val Kilmer's character from the 1995 film. I absolutely love this. There's no question I'm going to reread it this fall. Once I'm inside a little bit more and if we're back fully into like sweaters and reading by the fire and that sort of thing, this will be on the list. But I highly recommend it. If you enjoy the movie, I can't imagine a world in which you wouldn't enjoy the book. But I also think it's kind of fun where the first core media for Heat is a movie. And the second one is the book, whereas usually you start with a book and then they make a movie you're unhappy with. Yeah. Um, and it's possible that Michael Mann won't make heat too. Uh, it won't be what we all want it to be, which is, you know, the capture the vibe of heat. But if we're lucky, it'll be like a very moody shot at night, wet street, sort of four and a half hour long, uh, film. Um, but the book is great. It kind of takes you all over the world and there's weapons deals and, uh, it's, yeah, it's awesome. I, I highly recommend. Wow.
Jason Heaton Wow. He's having a moment. I mean, Ferrari and the book is the best.
James Stacey Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm excited for Ferrari. I'm like, I'm, I guess I'm becoming a bigger fan of Adam driver. Yeah. And, and I'm excited to see him do, uh, do a man sort of performance. And apparently they get along really well, which usually like that's typical to you either kind of do or don't with man as a, as an actor. And if you do it, that's where he seems to do some pretty cool stuff. So, I'm pumped to see that way more pumped for the idea that in three, four years, something like that, I'll be watching heat too. Yeah. So yeah, you got the book until then and it's a goodie. Nice. Cool. What have you got for us for a second pick?
Jason Heaton All right. Number two is a classic. Um, one that, that maybe a lot of people have actually read. Um, and, and this, this book, it really kind of put the hook in me. I read it many years ago. It was actually in the early years when Ghoshani and I first met and we were up at a cabin, uh, way up in the North woods. Uh, Alright, let me give the title of the book and then this idea of reading it in a cabin might seem a little absurd. The book is In Cold Blood by Truman Capote. This book was released in 1965 and it's a true story. So he's writing about a pretty savage murder that took place in a very small kind of farming community in Kansas back in 1959 in which an entire family was killed in their sleep in their fairly remote home. And it was a national sensation. I mean, the murders horrified people, the trial captivated people. And Capote, who was, you know, a New York-based kind of society guy, well-known writer at the time, decided that he was going to travel to Kansas and write about this horrific event and the story. And he did it in such a way that it kind of changed the way, well, not just, I think it sort of I don't want to say I'm not knowledgeable enough to make this statement authoritatively, but kind of kicked off true crime in the form that we all know and love these days where it really captivates people. And I think what was interesting about this book is that he not only kind of explores the murders and the investigation that followed, but he actually goes and interviews and becomes quite close with the the murderers themselves, visits them in prison right up until their ultimate fate, you know, in terms of capital punishment happened. And there's a certain level of, I'm not sure sympathy is the right word, but he really tries to dig in and understand what drove these men to do what they did. And I think that that aspect of looking at the other side was fairly revolutionary. I think rather than, you know, you could easily view these these men, these murderers as just full on evil monsters. And I think he tried to really understand what it was in their past that, that made them do this. Um, so Ghoshani and I were reading this book. We brought it, uh, actually I think it might've been even like a first edition copy or something. It was an old hardback that my parents had on their shelf. Um, and, and we brought it up to, to this cabin where we were staying for a week up in the boundary waters area up in Northern Minnesota. And we just kind of passed it back and forth over, over a few days and just read it aloud to each other, which, It was kind of creepy to do in a remote cabin somewhere. But I don't know, maybe the experience of reading it out loud and kind of sharing it with somebody else, it just really put the hook in me. And I think it's a fascinating story. It's a very seminal piece of nonfiction literature. And I think it really helped Capote kind of establish himself back then as well. So if you haven't read it, definitely worth it. I think there was a movie version. I'm sure there was, which I haven't seen. Yeah, it's worth a read. It's really well written and it's a fascinating story.
James Stacey So nice. Yeah. Okay. Well, Hey, I literally sold while you were talking. I bought it on Amazon. Two bucks. Wow. Wow. There you go. For a double, a double header from Capote. I got in, in, in cold blood and a breakfast. Oh, nice. Which I've not read. So these are, these are great, man. That sounds awesome. Yeah. Yeah. Good stuff. I'm in. Yeah. Cool. Very cool. Good. All right. What's number two? Sort of in a in a like a loosely similar fashion. True crime, crime, that sort of thing. I've talked about it on the show when I read it because it's one of my favorite books that I read of last year. It's going to be bookended by thrillers in my picks today. So this is the or kind of nonfiction essay collection, if you will. I'm a real sucker for essay collections. And this is Rogues, True Stories of Grifters, Killers, Rebels and Crooks by the wonderful Patrick Rodden Keefe. And I, like I did when I talked about it, I don't know, 50 episodes ago, something like that. Uh, I just absolutely love this book. Um, so I can give you the, the good reads sort of, um, breakdown here, uh, from the prize winning, uh, New York times, bestselling author of say nothing and empire of pain, 12 enthralling stories of skullduggery and intrigue by one of the most decorated journalists of our time. It's like beautifully written. It's these, these deep long investigations into very complicated, stories of crime and otherwise. And so this is a man that's won the National Magazine Award, the Orwell Prize, the National Book Critics Circle Award, like a celebrated author. And this is their description. Keith brilliantly explores the intricacies of forging $150,000 vintage wines, examines whether a whistleblower who dared to expose money laundering in a Swiss bank is a hero or a fabulist. spending time in Vietnam with Anthony Bourdain and chronicles the quest to bring down a cheerful international black market arms merchant while profiling the passionate death penalty attorney who represents the worst of the worst among other works of literary journalism. It's like just a collection of wild stories. They don't all have one theme, as you can tell, like rogues, I guess. Yeah. It's awesome. Whether it's art theft, espionage, uh, you know, political control. It's great. I loved every, I loved every one of these stories.
Jason Heaton Oh, it sounds great. Sounds really good. Were these previously published in the New Yorker or anything?
James Stacey I believe so. Oh, they were. I believe New York Times for a good bunch of it. And I think, yeah, I think Say Nothing was kind of one of his, you know, kind of like big moments again. But I think if you follow different, whether it's the novels or the kind of investigative journalism pieces.
Unknown Yeah.
James Stacey You might have a different read on him, but I have Say Nothing stored up in my Kindle as well to follow up. Can't recommend it enough. If you see this guy's name on anything, just go ahead and read it.
Jason Heaton Good to know. I'd never heard of him actually. Shame on me, but that's great.
James Stacey Cool. All right. What have you got for your third and final?
Jason Heaton Yeah, final book. Um, this one's a bit of an oddball, um, but a fascinating story and never quite left my brain. I think the story might even be more captivating in my head than, than even the book, but the book is, uh, is worth reading for sure. And it's, it's from a guy who's better known as a filmmaker, um, Werner Herzog, um, the, the German film director, uh, wrote this very short, my goodness, it's, it's nonfiction, but there's a lot of speculative sort of fictional fictionalizations going on in this book, too. If you know Herzog and his films, which are just kind of wild on their own, that won't seem implausible to you. This book is called The Twilight World, and it's a fairly recent book. I think it was released in early 2022, and it tells the story of a Japanese soldier who, after World War II ended, was told by his superiors to stay on high alert and stay hidden in the jungles of the Philippines until he was told to come out and surrender, give up. Um, so the Japanese forces had withdrawn from the Philippines. He was left behind, um, to kind of maintain sort of a guerrilla jungle sort of defensive position. Uh, and he stayed that way for, I think like 40 years or something, um, hitting, hiding in the jungle. It was an old man by the end of this all. Um, And he was very suspicious of anybody that would approach him, uh, to the point where he would, you know, tell them he was going to kill them and, and, you know, threaten them with a gun. And he was in deep hiding. So he wasn't like in the suburbs here. This was, was in the jungle. And, and Werner Herzog had learned of this guy because ultimately I think it was in the eighties. Um, uh, a journalist had, had approached this guy. I'd heard of, of this guy. Onoda was his name, the soldier. And found him in the jungle and and was almost killed for for finding him because the guy didn't trust anybody He thought everybody was a spy. He would see airplanes going overhead and thought they were American warplanes, etc and When the journalist approached him, he said I'm not coming out until unless I'm commanded by a superior officer So the journalist went back to Japan and brought back a high up, high ranking military guy and went back to the jungle and finally Onoda put down his weapons and walked out of the jungle and he was met with kind of a hero's reception in Japan and kind of took on mythical status. And so Herzog was very captivated by the story and he met with Onoda as an old man, this was back in the late 90s, early 2000s, and ultimately this book came out of it. And Herzog, you know, like I said, it's good storytelling. I listened again. I listened to the audiobook version of this and Herzog reads it. He's got an amazing voice. Perfect. But, yeah, and it's a short read. It's like 140 pages or something, the book. So it's a pretty quick read, but it's just a fascinating story. And, you know, to have Herzog telling this story kind of makes it all the better. So check it out, The Twilight World. I would love to see this made into, you know, a film using kind of archival film footage or something with Herzog's voiceover. It would be really cool. uh, until then we've got the book and it's a good one.
James Stacey That's great, man. I remember people talking about Herzog had written a book, I think maybe within the same conversation as like Michael Mann had written a book. It's, you know, two well-known directors turn it, turning to do books, which is kind of interesting. I also think that's fun where, you know, we now, I think these are the first two direct overlaps with a film club, maybe touching the void was the first one. We talked about the book and we've, I'm almost positive. We talked about it in an early film club. But now we have Werner Herzog, who did the Fitzcarraldo movie that you picked previously. And then of course, Heat 2, Michael Mann, Back to Heat, and some overlaps there. But this sounds fascinating. And I definitely have heard of this story. I remember reading about it, about this soldier. So this is great. I should definitely pick that up as well.
Jason Heaton Yeah. All right. You've got one more.
James Stacey I got one more. And It's going to seem like a crazy pick to some of you depending on your age, but I have found that a lot of people my age or younger skipped this book. And I think that's a mistake. Um, I was read this book when I was four or five. Uh, and my, my father simply edited it out. A lot of the, um, uh, like chaos theory stuff that like a five-year-old is not going to attach to. And you're now probably guessing what this book is, but I'm, I'm going to read the description and then hit you with the title. An astonishing technique for recovering and cloning dinosaur DNA has been discovered. Now humankind's most thrilling fantasies have come true. Creatures extinct for eons roam Jurassic park with their awesome presence and profound mystery and all the world can visit them for a price. This is Michael Crichton's Jurassic park. And the number of times that I've recommended it to people, like, like I said, my age or like in the 10 years behind me. And you just go like, Oh, I saw the movie. And I was like, Yeah. This was a, this was a borderline religion for me when I was a kid. Huh.
Unknown Huh.
James Stacey I love these books. My dad read me a ton of Michael Crichton as I was learning to read more simple books, five, six, seven, eight, nine, that sort of thing. Yeah. Uh, there was a stack and we went through sphere and airframe and, uh, uh, uh, you know, all, all of them, but like a special, deeply special spot in my heart, especially for the lost world, the second in the Jurassic park series. Um, but if this is one where you've only seen the movie, yeah. I think you're missing out. Crichton's not necessarily my favorite writer, but man, can the guy tell a story. Uh, and it's just, it's, it's a, you just sit down and crush it. You're going to have a great time. It's an awesome story. And there's elements of it that are really, really well portrayed by the film and elements that they entirely skip because it's a film. Yeah. Yeah. Um, so I, I highly recommend it, especially the two for of Jurassic park and lost world. I really loved lost world. And when that movie came out, it was a game changer for me. Huh? Mercedes Benz SUVs, cool technology out in the jungle. That was a great movie. I remember just freaking out over that. And, you know, before it came out, we went through the book and may seem like a crazy pick, obviously a hugely popular film and book. But if for whatever reason you skipped out on the book or you're a little on the younger side of, of say, the mean of Jason and I and missed it entirely, the movie is incredible, flat out, incredible, great movie. The book's even better.
Jason Heaton Well, that's good to know. And you can count me as one who's only seen the movie, but, um, I, the only thing I've read by Crichton, he did a, uh, I had picked up a book of nonfiction kind of travel stories that he did and they were great. Yeah. He was a fairly avid diver. Uh, I think there's even a chapter about him diving in boner, uh, which was relevant to me at the time. Um, but I enjoyed the writing. I enjoyed his kind of adventurous spirit and I agree about the movie. And I just think the story concept, even as you were reading it, I was almost getting goosebumps. The, the, It's so good. The description of it. I mean, what a brilliant story idea. And this is what makes, you know, a good author, like talking about Hadfield with the Apollo murders, kind of same story, like come up with a, just a brilliant, uh, captivating storyline. I mean, what a great idea to be able to, you know, recreate dinosaurs from DNA. And this is, this is entirely kind of relevant these days. I mean, I read a story just last week about how they've They're working on, you know, recreating the extinct Tasmanian tiger from DNA. I mean, this kind of stuff is, you know, a lot of it's coming true or coming close. And yeah, what a great concept. I'm going to hunt this one down and I'm sure it can be had for very little money. It's probably in one of those little neighborhood library boxes right now.
James Stacey I guarantee if you walk into a thrift store, you're going to find a copy. Oh, totally. Yeah. Get in there and get it for a buck. I can even picture the cover.
Jason Heaton There's no better value. Like with the Tyrannosaurus Rex skull in silhouette on the cover.
James Stacey Oh, exactly. Yeah, of course. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And, uh, yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm just a huge fan, big Michael Crichton fan. I, you know, like I said, like, I don't, I don't think he necessarily brought to the table the greatest writing. Um, certainly, you know, we're following statements from Capote. I don't think we're necessarily in the same vein there. But from a storytelling aspect, yeah, goodness sakes, he could do a great job. Sphere is an incredible piece of science fiction, right? Movie didn't work. Very complicated thing to try and put on film, but Sphere's great. And yeah, I'm just throwing it out there for the folks, the handful of you in the audience who maybe didn't get to Jurassic Park. And if you haven't seen the movie, sure. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Fantastic film.
Jason Heaton You can paint your Jeep with the Jurassic Park colors.
James Stacey I remember that when I first moved to Vancouver there, and I'm sure there's a chance somebody in the audience knows this fella, but going up to Squamish to visit my brother who was in Whistler at the time, you go up to Squamish in Brackendale, which is like a sister town just north of Squamish. You almost can't tell the two are necessarily divided. But in Brackendale, there was like a recreation of the you know, the Jeep from, you know, must go faster, must go faster. The T-Rex chase down the road. Oh, that's great. There's one of those. And I always get a kick out of that. I mean, I was, I was going through boxes when we moved and like, I still have the like dino damage Ford Explorer. Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Where like a piece of it will pop off where the, where the T-Rex hits it and that sort of thing. And there's so much of that movie that's like seminal to me. Like if anybody, even today, like if somebody picks up a watch around me and goes, Oh, it's, it's heavy. Yeah. And it always just leads me back to that conversation he has with the, the kid has with the lawyer about the night vision goggles. Are they heavy? Yeah. Then they're expensive. Just a great movie. Great movie. Great book. And it makes me happy. Like just one of the fondest parts of my childhood was going through these so many books with my dad, some of which were Crichton and, uh, and just loving, I remember just being obsessed with the idea. And then, you know, watching the movie for the first time we went for my birthday, the year after the movie came out, it was playing at like, what's the giant screen IMAX or something or IMAX. Thank you. It was playing at IMAX and, uh, and we went and saw it as like a birthday treat. I've probably seen the movie 30 or 40 times by then. Like, yeah, I was, I was a big, big fan. Certainly. So, uh, and the book fits in nicely. It's one, I should definitely just consider going back and rereading as I probably haven't read it in 15 years or more. Yeah. Yeah. Nice. But those are the three. Jason, you picked The Apollo Murders by Chris Hadfield, In Cold Blood by Truman Capote, and The Twilight World by Werner Herzog. Three very different books, and one that I've, within Cold Blood, I was just listening to you talk about it, I had to buy it.
Jason Heaton Yeah, yeah, good call. And your picks were Rogues, True Stories of Grifters, Killers, Rebels, and Crooks by Patrick Radden Keefe, Jurassic Park, Michael Crichton, Heat 2, Michael Mann, and Meg Gardner. Yeah, I think I'm gonna have to track down Jurassic Park of the three you mentioned. Um, I don't know, just, just kind of the tie in with what I was saying about Apollo murders and kind of good, you know, just good storytelling. Um, I think I'm kind of in the mood for that sort of thing and I love that concept. Yeah. Good. Nice.
James Stacey All right. Let's, uh, let's put a bow on it with some final notes. You want to go first?
Jason Heaton Sure. Yeah. Mine isn't really, you know, any, anything specific other than some, a bit of news, uh, from, you know, someone who's been on TGN twice now, uh, Lauren Ballesta, who we met, uh, in France just a few weeks back. Uh, Laurent is of course, uh, an ambassador of sorts for Blancpain, of course, a celebrated marine biologist and photographer. And the big news is he won the Wildlife Photographer of the Year for a record second time recently. And this was kind of a big deal. This is an annual award that's put on by the Natural History Museum in London, a very prestigious award for wildlife photographers. Laurent deservedly won this for a series of photos that he took of golden horseshoe crabs near the Philippines. And, you know, here's a guy who, you know, he's, he's taken such, such a incredible amount of great photos over the years that, you know, I can, I can picture them in my head, the 700 sharks hunting, uh, in the night. There's the groupers spawning. I think that was the one that he won the previous award for. Um, you know, just, just, under the Antarctic ice, et cetera. And, and here he is kind of in the dark and kind of a muddy, you know, seabed, uh, shooting these very prehistoric, but very humble, elusive and endangered creatures, these horseshoe crabs scuttling along the seabed and, and everything about this photo, the amount of detail he gets, um, the lighting is perfect. The creatures themselves are fascinating. And, and the series of photos that, that he won for, are just astounding. And, you know, I just, I just thought, um, it was in the news quite a bit over the past week. Uh, but in case you, you didn't see that, um, definitely we'll throw a link in the show notes to the kind of the official announcement, but, uh, just track down those photos and take a look at what he did. And they're, they're really amazing. And, you know, congrats to Lauren from, from us and, uh, just, uh, such an amazing job.
James Stacey So really, really good. It's a rad photo of a very cool animal. Yeah. Yeah. Good work as always. Can't really be surprised by that guy. Yeah. Yeah. He seems to just be capable of doing whatever he puts his mind to. So another incredible photo and a well-deserved award, of course. Yeah. Yeah. Mine's a totally different pick this week. It's just something that I've gotten back into. So I wanted to find a new way to kind of focus back on the rowing machine with, with, you know, the outside time starting to wane. Yeah. I want to be, I'm not saying I'm running out of time to be outside, but I want to have like a new practice in hand before it starts to snow. And so luckily, uh, just as this was kind of on my mind, uh, a YouTube channel I really like for rowing and fitness stuff, training tall started the series they're calling row 20. And so it's 20 days in a row. Each of them are 20 minutes long. So you can do a couple if you want to, or if you just have 20 minutes, um, I think a 20 minute you add in a shower, that's a half hour, right? You're in and out and you got your workout done.
Unknown Yeah.
James Stacey Um, so I'm three days into it so far. Uh, and, and it's, yeah, it's 2025 minutes, maybe tops on the machine. And they're all a variety of, of activities to kind of get you into probably zone two zone three, maybe towards the end in terms of heart rate workouts and work on your form. So there's a lot of like slow cadence rowing, which I find difficult. I think a lot of people do. Yeah. Um, where you maintain a certain speed, but they progressively ladder down like to 16, 14 strokes a minute. Yeah. Um, which, you know, if you want to hold the same speed at 16 that you're doing at 24, that's an entirely different workout essentially. Yeah. Um, so I've, I've really been enjoying it. And if you've got a rowing machine at home or you're rowing machine curious, now's a great time to snap one up use. That's what I did. I bought a water rower based on, uh, Jason's recommendation and supportive of, of the system and have been super happy with it about a little clamp and arm that holds my iPad. Oh, nice. Um, and so I have one screen, that's the computer and it's separate from the one I wear, uh, a garment, uh, when I row to, to measure and track everything, which I like quite a bit. And then I have the iPad there to watch, to watch the training tall series. So it's, it's been good. And if you were looking for a reason to get back on your, maybe a little bit dusty rowing machine after a summer outside, Uh, I think this is a good way to jump into it and it's very beginner friendly. I kind of started a couple in, um, as I, I didn't feel like I needed to do the initial assessment, but then from there I've been really enjoying two, three, four and on.
Jason Heaton Yeah, this is great. I just subscribed because, uh, I, as you just said, I, I dusted off, uh, literally dusted off, uh, my water rower, uh, last week we had kind of a rainy day, it's getting colder and I just needed some, some quick exercise. And, um, I guess the difficulty I do have with, with rowing workouts is kind of structure. And so oftentimes I'll just kind of lazily just sort of cruise back and forth, either at a really, you know, one speed kind of high rate or, or whatever. Um, and it's probably not maximizing the benefit of it. So this is a, this is really cool. Definitely going to set up my laptop nearby and do it.
James Stacey Yeah. And I think it's also like a 20 minute row really compliments another workout. Yeah. Yeah. Um, like, like I really enjoy doing the 20 minute row and then one of my Bowflex workouts. And now you're in for maybe 35 to 40 minutes. Yeah. So it's a little bit longer, but you get kind of both and neither, like, there's not so much, um, it like the, the rowing workout feels a bit like a weight workout. So then by the time you get to the weights, it kind of, you're warmed up that way. Um, yeah, I've been liking it. It's good. Yeah. Good. Nice. Well, there we go. Book club three, I guess we'll call it. We'll double check that number. I'll go back and make sure, but I'm pretty sure it's book club three. I haven't done one in a while, but it was good.
Jason Heaton Yeah. And we had some, uh, some fun pics, a little different pics than usual. I think we, we used to kind of veer more towards the kind of polar disasters and mountaineering escapades and whatever. And I think this one had a little bit of fiction in it. Um, yeah, good, good fun. So till, till next book club, uh, that'll, that'll keep people busy for a while. I hope.
James Stacey Yeah, we'll see in something like 100 episodes or whatever. Yeah. Do hope everybody enjoyed it.
Jason Heaton Yeah. Well, as always, thanks so much for listening. If you want to subscribe to the show notes, get into the comments for each episode or consider supporting the show directly, and maybe even grab a new TGN signed NATO, please visit TheGreyNATO.com and then you can join the Slack community and put your own book recommendations in there too. Music throughout is Siesta by Jazzar via the Free Music Archive.
James Stacey And we leave you with this quote from Fran Leibowitz, who said, Think before you speak. Read before you think.