The Grey NATO - 248 – Slack "Crew & A" #4 (The Finale)

Published on Thu, 27 Jul 2023 06:00:00 -0400

Synopsis

The hosts Jason and James discuss a variety of topics in this podcast episode. They talk about Jason's recent trip to a cottage where he enjoyed snorkeling and swimming in the lake. James mentions a meet-up he attended where he bought a new watch. They also discuss the new TGN summer bundle available in their shop, which includes a baseball cap, kerchiefs, lapel pins, and stickers. Jason shares his thoughts on the Longines Spirit Zulu watch he's been wearing, and James talks about the new watches he's acquired recently, including a Zodiac C Kron, a vintage TAG Heuer Super Professional, and an Accutron Space View. They then answer questions from their Slack community, covering topics such as architecture, stoicism, and the influences that shaped their personal development.

Transcript

Speaker
James Hello and welcome to another episode of The Graynado, a loose discussion of travel, adventure, diving, driving, gear, and most certainly watches. This is episode 248 and it's proudly brought to you by the ever-growing TGN supporter crew. We thank you all so much for your continued support. And if you're listening and interested in supporting the show, please visit thegraynado.com for more details. James, how's it going?
Jason Heaton Hey, Jason, not too bad. Staying cool down here in my basement. How about you?
James Yeah, I pre-cooled the room that I record in. I had the AC cranked up and now I shut it off for noise purposes. But yeah, it feels like summer is never ending at this point. It's hot here as it sounds like it is there too.
Jason Heaton Yeah, I'm loving it. We just got back from six days at the cottage. So, you know, lots of dock jumping and snorkeling and all that kind of stuff. So I had a real blast. over the last few days, came back to sort a few things out in the city, do a recording, that sort of stuff, and then we'll probably head right back up to the cottage and enjoy what looks to be a plenty warm weekend in a day or two.
James Nice to be near a body of water for that.
Jason Heaton Oh, absolutely. Yeah, the lake was nice and warm. Apple Watch said it was 24 Celsius, so it's definitely a warm lake. Wow. But we did several hours of snorkeling. I've got We were basically just taking like a golf ball and hucking it into the lake and then going to find it. Oh, nice. So we did that for a really long time and I got both of my daughters finning all the way down to the bottom to pick it up. It's about six or seven feet. Yeah. So yeah, it was a pretty good successful run. My youngest definitely needs a mask that actually fits her. So we'll probably... I have to take my regs in to get them serviced tomorrow and pick up some other gear for some diving that's coming up. So I think she's going to get a mask and I think I'm going to I think I'm going to drop the split fins. I think we're going to go with a new set of fins as well. We'll see. Nice. Crystal's teasing me enough about the split fins. Yeah, right. How have you been?
James Yeah, you know, just moving slow, staying in the shade during the hot part of the day. Last week we had we had this get together, you know, Blake I didn't do a full head count, but I would say 20 people at least. And it's good to see Blake again shortly after wind up and we had some beers and people brought watches and I bought a watch, which I'll talk about in a bit here. But, uh, Ooh, yeah, it was a good time. Yeah. It was a good time. It was a good time. It was a good time. It was a good time. It was a good time. It was a good time. It was a good time. It was a good time. It was a good time. It was a good time. It was a good time. It was a good time. It was a good time. Good turnout. Good, good fun. Felt, it felt like a proper sort of summer brewery get together with some, with some friends. Uh, not long after windup.
Unknown Yeah.
Jason Heaton And I guess you got back and a couple of days later decided to make your life quite busy. You're a FedEx man again.
James Yeah. I guess this is the big announcement. We've got the, the new TGN summer bundle is now available in the TGN shop. Um, we launched it a couple of days early for our annual subscribers. So if there's any, incentive for people to sign up to be an annual subscriber in the future. You do get early access to merchandise drops as well as a small discount that we offer via a code. We've had brisk sales already in the past couple of days from our annual supporters, but now the shop is open to everybody as of this episode. We'll throw the link in the show notes. We're pretty excited about this bundle. James, you had a sneak peek at a couple of the items at WindUp. It's pretty cool, isn't it?
Jason Heaton Yeah, it's great. It's a four-part bundle. So the main is an orange TGN baseball cap made by American Needle. I came across a blue version of this same hat. Of course, it didn't have a TGN logo on it, but I came across it via my brother and just really felt that the quality and the fit, especially for my big dumb head, worked out pretty well. So we leaned in, contacted them, and it turns out they were pretty easy to work with. We were able to get everything sorted out. So we've got a nice It's like a pretty bright orange. I'm looking forward to mine fading out a little bit with the full color logo on the front as a crest. Really just kind of a solid, easy-wearing sort of baseball cap. We've also done another set of the kerchiefs from Cantonment. This is a climb set, so it's kind of alpinism themed. These are both gray, which I really like, and then the color is relegated just to the edge. So there's an orange edge, for one and a blue edge because you get two in a set. I think these are really cool and they're a lot more sort of subtle than the full blue orange versions we did last time.
Unknown Yeah.
Jason Heaton I'm really looking forward to, not unlike the hat actually, I'm really looking forward to washing mine a few dozen times and getting it like nice and soft and, and, and that kind of thing. Cause they are really nice to have in a pocket. Oh, they sure do. Yeah. In conjunction with those two things, we also have a blacked out version of the lapel pin, which I believe we've offered in the past. but this is a full black pin with silver for the TGN in the mountains and that sort of thing. I really like these. Again, it's a little bit more subtle, a little bit stealthy. And then following that kind of stealthy note, we're doing two stickers. One is a blacked out version of the logo, which is black and gray. And then we've got one that are some leftovers that we had from the event with Citizen in Chicago. And that's a loom dial logo sticker. So it's the logo, but all of the relief, all of the background, I guess, of the logo is luminous. These are really, really cool. So I hope everybody enjoys these. That's the sort of, I guess it's five things if you split up the stickers, but it's four kind of pieces to the set. And yeah, they're in the shop today. We're currently dealing with like a small delay in the pins. We thought we would have... We have quite a bunch, but we don't have enough to fill, say, all the orders for all the hats. So if you go to order and instead of saying, like, buy now, ship now, it says, like, pre-order, it just means we're waiting for the pins. We should have them shortly. We've been assured by the company that we can and we'll certainly start shipping them as soon as the pins come in. So if there's a little bit of a delay, chalk it up to supply chain. And then, of course, we're taking a bit of a break starting after next week's episode. So 2.49 will be the last before the summer break. And then we're back August 24th. I will say that if everything works out, 249 is going to be a very cool episode with a great guest.
James Yeah. Yeah. Good way to, good way to send us off on our summer break with, uh, with this guest. I think everybody's going to be pretty, pretty excited about this one.
Jason Heaton Yeah, absolutely. I think it's going to be a good one. And I'm really pumped to see the, uh, the TGN summer bundles kind of start to Head out, you sent me a big photo of a huge box full of FedEx packages. So I assumed, are you back to biking down with all those orders or did you have to drive that big box?
James They're in the Defender. We did a run, Ghoshani and I went on a run to FedEx this morning with the Defender. The whole back of it was full, a couple hundred orders already. And yeah, I mean, speaking of supply chain issues, I also ran out of like the packaging from the shipping materials from FedEx. So that was a bit of a, I wouldn't call it a panic, but you know, I had to rush off to FedEx this morning and restock on that. So our dining room right now looks like a fulfillment center. Let's just put it that way. But, uh, but it's all fun. And I think people are really excited. I think this might be my favorite kind of offering we've done. I think the cap was a long time coming and people seem to be just excited even from the photos and from seeing them, seeing them on our heads at wind up.
Jason Heaton So, yeah, I think the hat's pretty sweet. I already have ideas for like other versions. Like if we were able to sell, It seems crazy to think you could sell 500 hats. Yeah. But if we're able to sell that many, I could think of about three or four more that I'd love, maybe even one that kind of matches up with a t-shirt or something like that. So who knows what the bundles might be in the future, but it's certainly been fun to see these like become a thing you can hold in your hand, wear on your head, that sort of thing. So, yeah. And the sticker looks really cool on the Jeep.
James Yeah. And kids love the loom sticker. I mean, I can vouch. Oh yeah. I was staying with my friend in Milwaukee and his daughters were putting up a bit of a fuss to go to bed. And as soon as I pulled out these stickers and said, and charged them up, I, they, they ran off to the darkest place in the house, which happened to be their bedroom, which was perfect. So, um, just a, a pro tip from a non-parent. Uh, that's great.
Jason Heaton Yeah, it was great. All right. You alluded to, uh, some watch news, some ins and outs of watches, perhaps what's, uh, what's the latest.
James Yeah, it's been, it's, it's been a big week. I mean, it's, it's, uh, it's quite funny. Um, you know, it's, it's, uh, feast or famine on the watch front here. And, and just since we recorded last, uh, three new watches have made it into the house here. One of which is a loaner from Zodiac. It's, it's, uh, the, the, the C Kron. Um, we, we got to see this at windup. Uh, our good friend, Mike Pearson was manning the Zodiac booth and shut up. Mike, this was a watch that I was really keen to check out. And, um, uh, so he, you know, he, he said, Oh, we can have a, Sample sent over to you. You can you can check it out. I might take a diving maybe next week up in Lake Superior. We'll see But it's it's a great watch. I will say it comes on a bracelet from Zodiac And it's not my favorite bracelet nothing against it It's just the the design isn't to my tastes and I just I had visions of this watch on a on a nice rubber strap so As soon as it arrived here, I unclipped the bracelet. I actually kept it in its plastic wrapping and I put on a different Zodiac strap. It was kind of this black porthole style rubber strap that came on a different Zodiac and it looks great. I think this watch could be a real strap killer because it's just such a handsome kind of retro looking piece. And it's, you know, one of the questions that comes up about it is the thickness. I mean, everybody's concerned about the size. They did a nice job with the kind of the angle of the lugs. They, they really sloped down and the watch wears well on the wrist. It's actually, I haven't measured it precisely. I think it's probably 15, uh, millimeters tall. So it's, you know, it's a chunk, but it's, it's actually, I don't think it's easy even as thick as my Seamaster racing, uh, regatta chronograph or, or someone else in a different review I'd read compared it to some Omega Seamaster chronographs and still being slimmer than that. I think, uh, I think once it gets on the wrist, uh, that sort of fades that sort of concern about, about thickness. And I think with dive chronographs, you, you kind of come to expect it anyway, but it's a, it's a really great, great looking piece. I'm glad that's awesome. And then when I was at, um, at our event last Thursday, um, you know, I, I think it was just our last episode or one or two episodes ago that we were talking about 1990s tag Hoyer. And I've had my eye on. on the super professional that they'd made starting in the mid 80s and continued right on through the late 90s. And David from Twin Cities Time and Luxury was at our event and he had a small box of watches to kind of pass around and show off. And one of them was a super professional. Kind of quickly and spontaneously, maybe some beer had something to do with it, but I made a quick deal and went home with it on my wrist. And I love it. It's a cool watch. I mean, it's It's one of these watches that, you know, with the monoblock case and this big oversized bezel, um, you know, it just, it kind of feels indestructible, um, even for a watch that's, you know, 30 plus years old. So I'm, I'm pretty excited about it. I, in fact, I've got it on my wrist right now.
Jason Heaton That's definitely like a, a pretty like quirky style, uh, of diver with a sort of sea star styled bezel and, and, you know, a blending of kind of old and new concepts from, from tag at the time.
James Yeah. Yeah, it definitely feels of that era. But the thing I love about it, in addition to the kind of strange bezel, which is very grippy, are that the markers on the dial are some of the biggest I've ever seen on a dive watch. The loom plots and the triangle are just massive. And it's got a little bit of glow to it left. It's a tritium loom, so it's faded a bit. But yeah, it's cool. And it came on a bracelet, which is how it would have come. Some of them came with a dive package that had a rubber strap included, as well as some dive tables. So you knew that TAG was kind of taking this seriously, but I've tried it on a couple of rubber straps and even on a NATO. And I, I think this is a watch that looks best on, on the bracelet. I think you're right. The case is sort of a strange barrel shape, very short. It's not even lugs, I guess, but that, that dimension is quite short. It's almost a very square dimension. And when you put a strap on it, it looks smaller. Whereas if you continue all that steel around the wrist, it just seems to wear and look a little bit better. So that's the configuration I've got it in now.
Jason Heaton Kind of like a, like a Seiko monster just makes more sense on the bracelet.
James Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's cool. And then to wrap things up, I was chatting with, um, with one of our listeners, John Cook, uh, about Accutron space views. Cause I have kind of an heirloom piece from a friend of mine and I'm trying to sort out how to get it working. I've replaced the battery and, and kind of working through some issues with And John is something of an expert and a collector of Accutrons. And so he said, Oh, I'll send you over a space view to check out. So thanks to John, I now have a space view. And he told me in appreciation of the show, he said, you know, go ahead and keep the watch as long as you want and do whatever you want with it. And so, you know, John, I got to give you a shout out. That's a incredibly generous offer. And I love the watch. It's got, it's on my desk right now, humming away, amplified by the wooden surface of my desk. And it's just a really, really cool little watch. So yeah, a three watch week.
Jason Heaton I mean, crazy. Yeah, that's great. I know some time ago, a colleague who used to work at Hodinkee had one of these really beautiful space views with the gold, with a bracelet.
Unknown Yeah.
Jason Heaton And the gold and green and the bracelet all together, it's really good. They're really, really cool watches. Yeah. I don't know, like you see them in steel on a leather strap or something like that, and they kind of just You have to be, you have to know and appreciate the movement at that point.
James Yeah. Yeah. And, and they're, they're audible. I mean, they're, they're, it takes me back. My dad had an Accutron many, many years ago and I always remember that sound. And, um, yeah, it's, it's just a fun piece.
Jason Heaton So, and then, yeah, with that tag Hoyer reminded me, I have started the hunt for a very weird watch that I don't think I'm ready to quite talk about yet, but it might even be weirder than a super pro, especially for me.
Unknown Wow.
Jason Heaton Yeah. It's a watch that came in multiple versions. So there's a diver, there's a chronograph, there's other stuff like that. And I've just kind of... It's always kind of been on my radar, and I went and Googled them the other day, and it turns out they're like about a quarter of what I thought they'd cost.
Unknown Oh, wow.
Jason Heaton Okay. So if I have some more time, maybe it's a story, maybe I'll buy one for a story, I don't really know. It would be a second hand only watch, but it's also either so obscure or so unloved that Crown and Caliber doesn't have any. Oh, wow. There's a few on eBay in different sort of modes. There was none on Watch Recon at all. Zero.
James I can't wait to hear what this is. Wow.
Jason Heaton So I'll decide how I want to launch this, if it's more fun to actually try and get one and then write a story about it or something, or maybe it comes up in a question that we deal with at some point in the future. But today, what I actually have on my wrist is something a little bit more conventional, definitely handsome, and a cool new piece. It's the Longines Spirit Zulu in 39 millimeters. So it's their Flyer GMT. from the brand. They loaned it to me for a little while and I've been wearing it and really quite enjoying it. So obviously the 39 is 39 millimeters wide, 46.7 lug to lug. I measured at 13.2 thick, 20 millimeter lugs, bracelet that tapers to 16 millimeters. It's a really nice watch. I like it quite a lot. It's a little over $3,000. It's 31.50 on the bracelet, which I think makes sense in their lineup and with their expectation of probably setting a competitive price point against Tudor. Yeah. The funny thing is, like in the span of time since the Black Bay came out, like the world of GMTs has changed several generations. And you don't have to spend as much as a Black Bay GMT or this Longines to get a flyer. You can get it from Mito for, you know, in the fourteen, fifteen hundreds. You can now get it from several brands using the 9075, including the Hydra from Laurier that we spoke about on the previous episode. So I think they have like a really competitive landscape. They also sent me the... I asked for the blue one, but they sent me the version with the matte black dial, the gold indices and markers and the green bezel. Oh, sure. Which is like a combination that doesn't... It's their flagship model. It's the one that they probably... Probably the only one they actually had a press unit for, so it's not like I asked for the blue and I should have gotten the blue. Yeah. It's more than likely this is the one that they had available. And I think this will appeal to a lot of people. I'm just not one of those people. But aside from that, and they make several versions. There's a black version as well that I like. There's, like I said, the blue one, which I think is quite handsome. I think it's a pretty impressive watch for the money. And if you want something that's very well made, has a great warranty, has a solid movement, I think they've done a nice job with it. The bezel action is great. Expect a story on Hodinkee sometime soon. And if my opinion differs in some way, it's because I've put a little bit more time with it on my wrist, but yeah. It's nice to see these GMTs and at this price, at this size and sort of price point coming around.
James Yeah, it's funny how for a long time, sometimes for years, watch enthusiasts talk about watches that they wish existed or I wish so and so would do this or this movement or that price or whatever. And then suddenly you have, I wouldn't call it a glut, but you're kind of spoiled for choice and then it becomes commonplace and pretty soon you've got a nice selection of GMTs to choose from. And I think GMTs seem like they're kind of having a having a moment.
Unknown Yeah.
James I don't know. Maybe it coincides with the kind of the relaxation of COVID lockdown and people are getting into travel again, or if it's maybe I'm reading too much into it. But yeah, it's really cool to see.
Jason Heaton I think that might be I think that might be a little piece of it. I think the big part of it is just the availability of movements. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Swatch has started to put the CO7, seems to be more available for other brands. So Mito's used it, we used it, like we being Hodinkee used it in the LE, which I love, and we have a lot of those on the Slack as well. It's a great watch. And that's the same format where you have good water resistance and all that kind of stuff, but this is a GMT. This is a three time zone GMT with a 24 hour bezel. Yeah. I think, yeah, the movements are really starting to make some offering because you have Seiko with a pretty solid collar that we've seen in like the FPV 381 and 383, and now we have the 9075 and Citizen's version of the 9075 is the 9054, I believe, and we're seeing that in more watches. So I think as good as this Longines is, and I'm absolutely impressed by it for the most part, I think that the bubbling, the boiling point for GMTs is gonna be under two grand. And I don't think that's gonna mean people won't buy the Longines because it's still a good cut under a Tudor and feels very similar in build quality. Yeah, right. Yeah. Yeah, and the 39 millimeters is simply with more wearable than a Black Bay GMT, you know 41 quite a bit thicker. So I think they have a great formula and a price point that makes sense for the market that they want to exist in. But I think like, yeah, I think the boiling point where the action is is gonna be under two grand.
James Launching is one of those brands that I, I always forget about or not forget about, but I don't consider when I look at, um, you know, various pieces, whether it's a dive watch or GMT or whatever, but you know, they've got such a deep catalog and I don't quite know why they're in a blind spot for me. Um, I had a legend diver the very first generation when they had it, I kind of still wish I did because I'm, I'm in love with that twin crown sort of super compressor style case. I mean, they have so much more, I mean, just such tremendous stuff, but I don't quite know where they sit in the scheme of things. I mean, you know, you, you made an obvious comparison to Tudor, but it just feels like Tudor is a more kind of dynamic hip brand that everybody gets excited about. But for some reason Longines doesn't feel like it occupies that same space.
Jason Heaton I can, you know, speaking from our perspective, and I think that's where your, where your read on the market comes from, you know, Longines is massively popular in Asia. and has been for a long time. And then I think the other side of it is where Tudor came to the States and they did so with a dive watch, like a pretty solid dive watch that a lot of people wanted. While credit where credit due, Longines was one of the first brands to really make a vintage throwback dive watch with the one you mentioned.
Unknown Yeah.
Jason Heaton I don't think that the Hydro Conquest has ever really hit the same zone that where people go hard on a Seiko for similar or less money or more money for something like a Black Bay 58. And I think the spirit is kind of fixing that slowly, although admittedly it's not a dive watch, you know, more aviation inspired, but they have some dive watch qualities in terms of some of the aesthetics. So I think that it is a very narrow perspective that I have on Longines because mostly what brings me to a watch brand is their dive watch. And I've never really thought that the Hydra Conquest stood out for me. I've seen them in person, I've seen different sizes, I've seen different colors. They don't... Like they don't speak to me for whatever reason. And it's not that they're a poorly made watch, that's not gonna happen. Longines makes a great watch and they do a really good job with a lot of different styles and kind of inspiration. But when those ones don't work, I tend not to be... Feel like a strong connection to a brand when they don't have like a go-to dive watch.
James Yeah, I agree. I mean, I think brands kind of, at least in our space, kind of lead with lead with the dive watch, kind of a hero product. And, and, you know, launching has done some nice dive watches with the legend and then with that skin diver and maybe one or two more kind of retro inspired ones. And they just haven't, they haven't had that same status as, as the black Bay family, which is just, I mean, Tudor just leans into that as everybody knows. I mean, just so many spinoffs.
Jason Heaton And I think it could be the spirit. I think they're still evolving the spirit line, obviously new sizes, new functionalities. They've got a flyback chronograph, all this kind of stuff. And I think where maybe Tudor wants to go hard into say like dive watches in a Rolexy sort of way.
Unknown Yeah.
Jason Heaton I think that Longines is probably a little bit smart by giving themselves some space and going a little bit more towards aviation. True, right. Like it's not a bad option to be the brand one down from price point, not, not a qualitative statement about Longines, but down from a Breitling or an IWC, that's a good spot to be. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Like that's what Omega used to be to Rolex. Right. And then we had this vacuum where Omega and Rolex both pushed even higher up and definitely Omega higher up. And you end up with Longines taking some of that space, Tudor taking some of that space. And, and I think they're doing a nice job. I think the spirit stuff largely makes a lot of sense. and I'm interested to see where they take the line moving forward. I think the watch would be even more compelling in a very muted sort of platform, some titanium, that sort of thing. Give me the sporty one. Yeah, yeah. The subtle sporty one. These ones still have a little bit of that throwback elegance, which is like Longines' character charm, is they make a very elegant watch. They make beautiful dress watches and great chronographs and that kind of stuff, but take the spirit and go, All right. This is the, this is the sporty one or whatever. Yeah. Yeah. Could be fun. Yeah. Always interested in a GMT under five grand. That's a, that's a, especially those that are flyers.
James Yeah. Well, we've got, uh, we finally have reached the end of our crew and a, uh, questions today. Um, you know, I think this is number four and, and people seem to like these. So, you know, I, I think even one of the questions in here is related to, could we do more of these? And, and certainly we'll, We'll consider that. I think it's a nice way to kind of fill in a week, maybe where another topic doesn't pop up, but there aren't a lot of new watches out or whatever it might be. Yeah. And, uh, and if they've served us well, and thanks to everybody for, for submitting these. And if we do it in the future, again, just keep an eye on Slack and we'll solicit some more questions. But, uh, should we, should we jump in?
Jason Heaton Yeah. I just want to give a little bit of a background for anyone who might be brand new. Uh, off chance that this is your first episode of TGN. Welcome. Happy to have you here. The Slack Q&A is essentially a Q&A where we ask our Slack platform, which you can get into for as little as five bucks a month by supporting the show. And we asked everybody if they just had questions that they didn't want to record and send in for our monthly Q&A episode. And honestly, I'd never expected to do four of these, but I like the questions and we asked, so we will answer. And so this is the fourth one, I think the finale, at least the finale for, you know, the next little while and then we'll look at the data and see if this makes sense or if there's a more elegant way to do it or a more fun way, all that kind of stuff. Obviously, we do a monthly audio Q&A where people call in, call in as in quotations, you know, record a voice memo on your phone, send it in to us and we answer the question for the supporter side of the community. It gives us a nice fun episode. And yeah, like I said, I really enjoyed a lot of the questions and recording the last three of these. So a big thank you to everybody who did throw one in. And yeah, I think we should definitely do more in the future and maybe find a way to get more questions into one episode rather than breaking it up into so many episodes. But for the summer break and most of Switzerland's hanging out and, you know, doing their vacation thing, I think this makes a lot of sense. So we can kick it off with one from Dennis, who says a lot of TGN talk is focused on design, watches, cars and other objects. Are either of you interested in architectural design? And if so, what kinds? Do you see any relationship between architecture and watches? What do you think, Jason?
James Well, I am not a student of architecture. I do admire nice architecture, but I am very naive or amateur when it comes to kind of architecture appreciation. I think the obvious relationship between architecture and watches are the most obvious one to see is the Bauhaus movement that covered more than just architecture. It was in a lot of elements of design, but, um, you know, I, I think it, at least to, to kind of, uh, uh, the uninformed like myself, I think there's a clear through line with watches from a company like Nomos, the kind of the most famous current, um, kind of advocate or, or user of Bauhaus design principles. Um, and, and kind of some of the, the architecture that came out of that school of design back in gosh, early part of the 20th century in Germany. But other than that, I mean, I tend to kind of lean towards more modern architecture. It's funny because we live in an older house. I love kind of seeing old homes and have an appreciation for that. But my own tastes really run to kind of clean, clean lines, very geometric proportions, kind of things that incorporate nature, you know, whether it's a, arts and crafts or Frank Lloyd Wright style stuff. Over in Sri Lanka, there was a famous architect named Jeffrey Bawa who arguably kicked off a movement in architecture called tropical modernism. It's about the only one that I'm kind of versed enough to talk about in. And it really is a very unique style of architecture that is a bit of Frank Lloyd Wright, but then it incorporates a lot of the features you'd find in sort of historic tropical architecture kind of going way back that takes advantage of shade and breeze and things like that to keep places cool in a very tropical environment. So if I had to pick a style that I knew anything about, it would be tropical modernism. But in terms of the watch overlap, it's got to be Bauhaus and a brand like Nomos. What about you? I have a feeling you're more into architecture than I am.
Jason Heaton I enjoy it quite a bit, but I don't know anything about it. I couldn't sit and have a conversation about one person's designs versus another. Obviously, I think like a lot of people, my age, I love mid century modern. The internet has fed that to me and I've enjoyed every bite of it so far. As far as watches and architecture, I do see a relationship between it in terms of like architecture, at least to my understanding, typically works in eras of taste, not unlike music in some scenario where there's a lot going on, but there's always kind of like a main zone that's kind of you know, like if I look at my public school from when I grew up, I know when that was made just from the way it looks. Oh, sure. Yeah. And, and if you see, if you see another, like when I went to university, I, you could point from one building to another and know that's older than that one. Right. Right. And it's cause they come in eras. And I think we see the exact same thing as watches. Like we do in furniture. You can see designs that, that were came of an era, whether it's an Eames chair or a Rolex sub or whatever. And I think that that's kind of speaks to it. And, and, you know, the last decade or so, probably for homes as well, has seen a resurgence of picking up on a previous era, just like it has in watches. Hmm. Interesting. And I think that does kind of weigh in interestingly into these topics sometimes, but as far as architecture goes, I'm not deep enough into it to see a turned lug and go, Oh, that's reminds me of so-and-so's foundations or whatever.
Unknown Yeah.
Jason Heaton Yeah. Maybe someday, you know, I used to spend a lot of time with Stephen Polverant and he was definitely a student of architecture and could, uh, could, you know, driving around LA with him was fascinating. Oh, I bet. Yeah. Because there's so many generations of architecture in that city.
James Yeah. Yeah. It's just funny how, you know, there's a lot of talk about the relationship between cars and watches and, and you can even, you know, some people will, will say, okay, this, this watch reminds me of, you know, an alpha or, or this, you know, Rolex is the Mercedes of watches or whatever, but like it, least to me, I can't do the same with, with architecture. Uh, I'd be curious. I mean, if anybody is versed in, in architecture theory or has any ideas around that, uh, would love to hear about it. If, whether you put it in a comment on Substack or drop it in Slack or something, I'd love to love to read more about it. Yeah. Thanks so much for that. All right, let's jump into, uh, what seems like a pretty straightforward question from, uh, Anderson, who has a simple question. Seiko SPB 317 or Doxa 50th anniversary shark hunter. Well, James, what say you? I have a feeling we're both going to come down on the same side of this one.
Jason Heaton Yeah, Doxa. Yeah. Yeah. The Seiko is a great watch, but the Doxa is a Doxa. Yeah. Yeah. Like if I had to pick one, especially between those two, there are Seikos that exist today that would challenge my love of a 50th anniversary Shark Hunter, but it wouldn't be the 317. Yeah. Yeah.
James I guess the one thing that 317 has going forward is it might be more versatile in terms of straps and clothing you wear with it if that's important to you, but the Doxa just, uh, has character and spades and such charisma for a watch that I'm always going to vote that way when it comes to a question like this.
Jason Heaton Beautiful architecture for that. Yeah. Thanks for that question, Anderson. Next up, let's grab one from Arthur, who says, have you guys ever heard of Olek and Voss, the watch company? I have, Jason. I assume you have as well.
James Yeah. I mean, gosh, back when, when I was just learning about watches, I remember there was a website, it was a pretty bad website. It was, it was, it looked very, um, kind of cobbled together, largely text-based, um, kind of developed early back in the nineties or something with a guy who used to sell all manner of, of interesting watches and kind of, I think it was like military memorabilia and things. And he sold Olic and Weiss. And I remember looking pretty hard at some of those early ones. Now they've changed quite a bit. I think the ownership has changed, et cetera. Um, but I remember delving kind of into the history of the brand and it was kind of under the radar and I never, never owned one, but, um, there were kind of that sort of military inspired, very kind of sober, um, instrument style watches and, and it looks like they've stayed the course if, if not improved. I mean, the watches look pretty fantastic these days.
Jason Heaton Yeah. I owned, um, a model that I'm actually not sure the name of this would have been a very, very long time ago. I believe I traded it for a couple of micro brand watches, maybe like an LM seven. or an LM two from ocean seven and some other stuff I'd have to go. I used to keep a spreadsheet of this stuff. I had one, it looked a lot like their version of a Submariner.
James Oh sure.
Jason Heaton So it had the sub style case, the sub bezel, Mercedes hands and otherwise their own sort of dial with that cool logo and some red text, if I remember correctly, like for a 24 hour display. Yeah. And it was in the same time I had a couple Invictus, I had a handful of watches that looked a lot like subs. And over time, I kind of realized that I didn't have that much of a taste for homage watches when it was about an icon like a sub. Yeah. And I kind of lost my taste for the watches and sent them off, but I wouldn't say that was necessarily O&W's issue. And I would agree, they seem to be still making watches and the lineup looks good. Under the impetus of this question, I went in and dug around a little bit. Yeah, a bunch of kind of skin diver adjacent watches that reference their past. They've got a great looking dive chronograph, the Navicron, which is quite handsome. So yeah, definitely a watch. Kind of reminds me these days of maybe like a different expression of the same zone as like Aquastar. Yeah, I would agree. Price points are similar-ish. Yeah. But these look handsome. Definitely one I wouldn't mind spending more time with. You know, I'm seeing, you know, the OWP101S with a 12-hour bezel looks great. Nice date at six o'clock. Nice legible sort of distinctive handset. Yeah, good stuff for sure. It definitely seems, at least in my world, and it sounds like Jason and yours as well, a pretty quiet brand, not a brand we hear from all that often.
James Yeah. And I remember when they kind of relaunched a few years ago, they did some nice looking kind of marketing videos and things were around the release of a dive watch or two. And, um, I mean, it's clear they've, they've stepped up their game since they were kind of a, kind of a small in the shadows brand. I, I do think that, and this kind of raises a different question, When it comes to watch names, you know, I looked at, I look at their lineup and with the exception of a couple, like the Navicron that you mentioned, you know, they have names like P 104 S P C 1000. And I almost feel like if a brand wants to be memorable or thought of, like you almost need to have an iconic name or at least give a name to something so that people kind of can, can remember, I wouldn't be able to tell you, you know, at a, at a meetup at a bar or something like What's your favorite OLEC advice based on some of these numbers? But, you know, small quibble. I'm certainly not going to give advice to a brand on how to name their products or anything like that. But that's the first thing that comes to mind when I look at their website.
Jason Heaton Yeah. All right. Thank you so much for that question, Arthur. Much appreciated. Next up, we've got one from Chris who asked, the TGN supporter group showcases a lovely variety of watches and gear. Science tells us how we socialize in real life and in lovely places like the slack influences how we choose what watches to wear and gear to pick. We risk ending up with the same camera, watch, and gear as the next guy or gal from the Slack. How do you make sure you experience new ways of looking at things and ways to think about watches, gear, adventuring, and everything else we're into? Any routines, sources of inspiration outside your social groups, virtual or otherwise, etc. Thanks so much for that question, Chris. That's a good one. It's an interesting thought topic. I do believe that there are points where a group of people, and in some ways could be the TGN crew, and in some ways it could be kind of any group of people, their tastes can become recursive. Yeah. So unless you pick one of the three or four things that are of the mind at the time, you're outside that zone. I find that curiosity is typically like the cure for that sort of thing. I've never really felt like I needed to have the same thing as somebody else to feel like I was necessarily part of the team, and I really hope that's not what's happening, or that's how anybody feels on the slack. We see a huge and very wide variety of watches and gear and other stuff. It's a little bit different for me, I guess, when it comes to cameras, because I still think of them very much as a tool for work. I don't buy cameras for fun, typically, so I would just want whatever I genuinely believe to be the best one, whereas Is there a best dive watch? And even if I had it, and let's say in my mind, it's my Pelagos. Even if I have it, I still am looking at other dive watches because their function in my life is almost entirely non-functional, it's emotional. I'm sure I have a $200 watch somewhere. My Scurfa right behind me would be all the dive watch I'll ever need to go diving, let alone I could just not bring a dive watch, I have a computer. Right, so With a camera, it's not an emotional decision. With the watch, I find that I'm always curious about finding something else that kind of, quote unquote, scratches that itch or something like that. And then as far as sources of inspiration, I mean, it's YouTube, it's stuff I write about, it's people I chat with in my friend circle and that sort of thing. It's just discovering new stuff. Where I've probably failed the most of that is music. I used to spend most of my listening time to stuff I had never listened to before. And now I'd say I'm probably down to about... I got 30 albums that I love, and that's what I listen to. And I don't wanna get to that point with watches, right? Right. Definitely not with watch brands. Yeah. So... Yeah. What do you figure, Jason? It's kind of a multi-faceted question, but how do you make sure you're experiencing new things and products and that kind of stuff?
James I do find that the more time I spend or, you know, it kind of ebbs and flows, but the time that I spend interacting with people online, whether it used to be in the forums or nowadays it's more in slack or, or, you know, social media for the past few years, I find that that tends to narrow my views, um, in many ways, especially when it comes to watches. Cause that tends to be what I consume. Um, but, I've noticed that when I see people in person, and this is an interesting distinction, when I interact with people in person, I'm thinking back to wind up a week and a half ago or our meetup here locally last Thursday. When I talk to people in person, you discover surprising things about them and things come out just in the course of conversation that don't, you know, when you're interacting online. For instance, our Slack community has channels with specific names to them, gear, watches, vehicles, aviation, travel, et cetera. Um, and so you kind of go there for a specific reason or just discuss something specific. But when you meet somebody in person, the conversation flows more naturally. You might see the shirt they're wearing and ask them about it or a pair of glasses or you know, what, what did you do this week? And it's like, Oh, I had to go run an errand to the small town and pick something up. And it's like you, the conversations meander and you, you learn more and then, and then those influences sort of broaden in a softer way. a more organic way. And I think equally, I think travel does the same thing. I think when you travel, you know, let's say outside of a watch press trip or something where, you know, you're there for a specific reason or a brand or a watch, obviously. Right. You encounter people of widely varied socioeconomic levels, different languages, different cultures, different priorities. And I think that that, you know, it's a cliche, but it's just so eyeopening. to, to discover what is important somewhere else in the world or how just another culture lives, whether it's, you know, in Scotland trying Haggis, um, or discovering a new brand of tea or something, um, you know, based on the people I met there or places we went. So I think travel and in person meetups, uh, as, as much of an introvert as I am, I think, uh, is, is incredibly valuable. And then, you know, even locally, you know, my friend group, uh, is largely not a, a watch nerd crowd, watch enthusiast crowd. They're, they're not part of, um, most of them don't listen to TGN, shame on them. Um, but I meet them for, for dinners or for, you know, activities and, and it provides that kind of respite from kind of the usual diet that I'm, I'm consuming on a day to day basis.
Jason Heaton Yeah. I think that makes a lot of sense. Uh, totally. And, and the one, the last thing I would add is like in a good way, I think TGN puts pressure on me to do stuff. and to try new things and to buy a $50 product that maybe it will be good, maybe it won't be good, but then I'd have something to talk about. And then obviously with Hodinke, I'm pressured to know as much about watches as I can, to have the widest possible scope, to specialize in areas of my own personal creativity and curiosity. So I think it's a good setup from our standpoint to not be stale because it would be very easy. I was looking at bags this weekend as I was sitting at the beach and it'd be easy to say like I've got all the bags that I need because that's the truth, but then there's a certain part of it is like yeah, maybe maybe there's a little bit of like a I like being the guinea pig and finding something I do or don't like and doing that sort of thing and then it also you know it's been it's been a few years when it comes to something like diving, but for any sort of adventure, I'm always thinking about like how much can I say yes, so that I have more to talk about on the show or more to inform a review of a product later on Yeah. Or that sort of stuff. So I think a lot of it, it really helps to have this crew of people like around to chit chat about stuff because I have somewhere to kind of download when I've had an experience.
James Yeah. And that's a good point. I think, um, you know, in the early days, up until whenever we launched the Slack group, um, or even the Q and a, you know, before that, TGen was by and large a kind of a one-way medium. It was us talking, people listening, and we'd get emails from people, but the Slack community has just opened us both up to a community, a true two-way or multi-way communication mechanism that has just been incredibly enriching and valuable to me to kind of get out of just you and me, you know, kind of talking about our own experiences and hoping that other people find value in it.
Jason Heaton It's been great. Yeah, I agree. And I think there is, there would be a natural age to how much you and I could talk about things just of our own effort.
Unknown Yeah.
Jason Heaton Right. You can only go for so long and you have to remain curious. You have to remain interested and you kind of like at a certain point have to understand that like something might be good just for the discussion, just for the, the experience of it all. It doesn't necessarily have to be a lasting forever, whatever. So yeah, I think I think I definitely agree on that front. And a really fun question, Chris, I hope that answers it. And obviously, we're again saying thank you for the questions in a world where you guys are giving us stuff to chit chat about and that sort of thing. So we've got one more from Tyler, who asks, what books, art, movies, etc, have influenced you the most in your development as humans. In the early episodes, you all mentioned the Stoics a few times. I was curious if we have a few Seneca heads in the house. I think the slack would suggest we have a lot of folks that are into the idea of stoicism or have read into it in the past. We can even start a Stoics channel. Swing by new-channels-and-requests. It's a channel in the slack and let us know. Or I'm sure somebody will post it and just give that one a thumbs up so we have a little tally, but I'd be happy to. Definitely that's something I came to a little later in my life, largely through the Tim Ferriss podcast. He got quite interested in Aurelius and Seneca and all that kind of stuff and then had Ryan Holiday on and that sort of stuff. So I've definitely dabbled, I would say, in that sort of stuff. I don't know, Jason. I mean, like I guess for movies, is it Bond for you?
James You know, I think I'm someone who I've always kind of described myself as sort of a a romantic at heart when it comes to kind of nostalgia themes or movies, whether it's a book or music or, or a film. Um, and it's largely influenced me since, since way back. And I think, you know, the bond movies are one thing. I think those are, there's kind of pure fun and, and whatever. But like, you know, if I look at some of my other favorite movies, whether it's, uh, you know, the English patient or Tinker Taylor or something, they speak to a very specific era and, And those sorts of films have a lot of impact on me and movies that I, I can watch over and over again and get a certain vibe or feeling. I think going back to, um, kind of my early days in development, you know, when a lot of us, uh, develop the way we think and form our personalities in high school, you know, it came through with a lot of the music I was listening to. And back then this was, okay, I'm dating myself, but it was the late eighties into the early nineties. And it was, I was listening to a lot of kind of British sort of thinking man's pop, you know, whether it was the police or Peter Gabriel or U2, you know, they, they wove a lot of sort of cultural references, religion, philosophy into the lyrics. And I remember kind of being fascinated by reading the liner notes to albums and kind of discovering things about, you know, if you look at the, the synchronicity album from the police 1983 or 84 you know, it's based on a book by Carl Jung, the Swiss psychologist. And I remember, wondering about that and then going off and reading Jung. And then when I went into college, you know, taking a psychology class where we studied Jung and then Jung had an interest in Eastern religion and, you know, having been raised in kind of a fairly conventional Christian home, I, it was kind of eyeopening to me to kind of go and look at what, you know, Buddhism had to teach and, and, you know, take meditation classes at a Zen Buddhist, uh, community here in the twin cities when I moved here and, and, all of those sort of threads that sort of expanded out from there, um, have kind of made who I am, you know, made me who I am. And, and sure, that's when it all started, you know, and I think it all came from, from a lot from, from the music I was listening to, which then led to books that I was reading, which then led to, you know, just other things.
Jason Heaton Um, so yeah, I mean, I, I didn't give it any credit at time, even when, you know, mentors or otherwise would have suggested, but the weight of the things that you take in, any type of media, from 13 to 18 really has an effect. It's crazy because it's now where I'll go back and watch documentaries about that era, we'll call it the very late 90s. I would have been 14 in 99, and that's when Fight Club came out. Oh, and I was listening to music that kind of followed that kind of like we've been let down by everybody else, but we're not out of options sort of feeling. And yeah, I think if you follow that through line, the, the rebellious nature in there combined with the expansion, the like limitless possibilities of the internet, which like I grew up, I grew up right alongside, you know, I built my first computer when I was six or seven. And I remember when we first got online and bought CDs on Columbia House, and I remember installing my first video game. I remember getting my first PlayStation, and then later on Xbox. I remember waiting in line for Halo 3 at midnight. All these ideas where it was a mix of you don't have to trust the way that everybody did it before you, the way that my parents did it, and you probably shouldn't. And also there's this platform where you can do anything you want, I think I was probably influenced most strongly by very early internet culture, which would be almost hard to encapsulate at this point, but podcasts like before Apple started running podcasts. I remember listening to a very early episode of a show that used to run all the time called This Week in Tech with Leo Laporte. It must have been right around the time that Apple started to actually carry podcasts and just thinking like, so this is a guy, he's at his house and he basically has a radio show And he can do anything he wants.
Unknown Yeah, true. Right.
Jason Heaton And then, you know, fast forward, you know, that would have been the start of university maybe for me, or maybe a little bit earlier than that, the end of, end of high school when I discovered some of the very early pods. And then fast forward and you've got, that's what I do for a living. I don't have a conventional job in any sense. You know, I don't, I did not put my university degree to any use at all. So yeah, I think it'd be tough to tie it to one book, one movie or something like that, but just largely, I think I'm a product of the tone of the society. I grew up in a small town, so we didn't have a ton to do, so we sat around and listened to a lot of music. We watched a lot of movies, whatever we get our hands on, and I think that media, the stuff from the 90s and into the early 2000s really had an effect. I've also... I'm a man of many obsessions, And I think that the internet really made being an obsessive a lot easier and a lot more approachable. And you can go in any direction, you can go for years, you can go for days, whatever it is. So I think that's probably more where my influence has been is just in the idea that, yeah, there was a lot of media that pushed back on sort of maybe boomer, maybe not, just kind of post-war ideals. Yeah. And, uh, and the kind of the expansion of, of youth at the time. And, and then beyond that, you know, the, the push into, you can do anything you want on the internet. It's the internet, right? There's not really any rules. There's nobody to tell you you can or can't do something. And if you try really hard, it was still a meritocracy. I think it still is now largely you can, you can make something good and people will find it. And that can be what you do. And today it is.
James Gosh. Um, what, what a great final question to, to this four part, And like we said at the get-go, thanks so much for the questions. I definitely want to do it again. I'd like to see if there's maybe a little bit more of an active way of doing it.
Jason Heaton or a way of capturing more of it in a single episode. Maybe there are episodes that don't have our typical three beat structure. I'm not really sure. We're always kind of iterating and evolving. But leave that with us. Thank you so much for the questions and really just for the community, the camaraderie of the Slack, whether it's in person or online. And yeah, it's been great and really have enjoyed all four of these episodes. Uh, we should definitely figure out a way to do some more in the future. But, uh, Jason, with that in mind, you want to get into some final notes?
James Yeah, let's do it. I mean, I think, uh, mine can be fairly brief and it's not one that's probably unfamiliar to a lot of people listening. Uh, it is a new documentary that was released last week on Netflix called the deepest breath. Uh, I watched it, um, over, I guess it was over the weekend. Uh, and it's, it's quite, quite a, you know, a poignant, uh, heavy emotional documentary about a tragedy in the free diving world. Uh, it's a documentary about the Italian free diver, Alessia Zucchini and her safety diver slash coach, um, slash, uh, partner, uh, Stephen Keenan, uh, from Ireland. And, you know, I'm not going to kind of give it away. I think it's fairly clear if you watch the trailer or if you you've watched the first few minutes of it, what, what it's about, but you know, there have been some good, good diving movies, some decent free diving movies, I think. This kind of continues that. And I think, you know, they, they did a great job with this. It's, it's a great story with some, some great footage. It's really well told. And, uh, yeah, I mean, just check it out. I think, uh, I think most people probably have seen reference to this. It was kind of making the rounds on Slack as well, but, uh, yeah, check it out.
Jason Heaton Yeah. It looks like a good one. Uh, definitely has been on, on my radar and Netflix has suggested it a couple of times. So I'll definitely have to give that a watch. Yeah. What do you have? You have a show too. It looks like. I do, yeah. The latest from Taylor Sheridan on Paramount is called Special Ops Lioness. It's a pretty clearly special ops sort of drama. Two episodes out, maybe the third. No, I think the third comes out the weekend after this episode. So there's two episodes out so far, and I enjoyed both quite a bit. It's Zoe Saldana in the lead as a CIA agent, kind of developing assets for various areas, and it's kind of gnarly. it's got an edge to it. It's definitely vile. I mean, if you know any of Taylor shared and stuff, that's everything from, you know, he wrote Sicario in Wind River and then he's got several shows in Mayor Kingstown and Yellowstone and all that kind of stuff. So he gets around, he's got a lot of a lot of, you know, irons in the fire. Yeah, very, very much so. But this one, you know, I'm a pretty, pretty big sucker for like special forces sort of stuff. Yeah. And and this one kind of does it. I love that it's got a female lead Uh, and the first two episodes were like interesting. They had a little bit of like a family element, a little bit of a, like a background BTS to a mission element, and then some actual sort of like action, um, all kind of wrapped up into one. Uh, so far so good. I'm, I'm going to keep watching it. And, uh, if that sounds like it could be up your alley, then check it out. It's called special ops lioness. It also seems to just be called lioness in many scenarios. So I'm not sure if it's both or one or they use them interchangeably, but special ops lioness. Uh, I've got a link to the IMDB in the show notes for you.
James Yeah, you mentioned only two episodes out so far. And I, when it comes to series, I just, I, I have such, I guess not much patience, but a lot of patience because I always want to wait until all of the episodes are available and then just zap through them like on a weekend or something. Ghoshani and I do it all the time and it sounds horrible, but we, you know, we will just like sit and plow through a seven or eight episode show. I mean, we've, we've tried to do that with hijack the latest one with Idris Elba, which is quite good. We have to wait till next week for the final episode to come out, which is a bit maddening. But yeah, you're good on you for taking it one at a time with Lioness.
Jason Heaton Yeah, I have trouble these days like sitting still for that long. And with a show like this, especially like if they let's say they drop the entire episode or the entire series. Yeah, it's this is way it's way too violent for my wife. Oh, sure. So she would do one episode and then need a break, that sort of thing. So it probably makes more sense just to kind of dip in and out of it and get an hour here or there. Yeah. But I do agree that there is something nice about like finding yourself with a not busy weekend or it's really rainy or whatever the scenario is. And you go like, Oh yeah, there is that show. I want to watch the night manager. Yeah, just do the whole thing and yeah, that was like one long movie. You order food halfway through. Oh yeah, I've definitely done that with band of brothers before when I used to make a habit every November 11th, which is Remembrance Day here in Canada of watching the entire series. I think I did it three years in a row. Oh wow. It's like ten and a half hours or something, but you'd have to get up early and like put it on and it's the best, but there is something special about that experience as well. Yeah. All right. Good show. Yeah, that was a fun one. And as always, thank you so much for listening. If you want to subscribe to the show notes, get into the comments for each episode, or even consider supporting the show directly and get yourself a new TGN signed NATO and access to the slack, please visit TheGreyNATO.com. Music throughout is Siesta by Jazzar via the free music archive.
James And we leave you with this quote from Bryant H. McGill, who said, Curiosity is one of the great secrets of happiness.