The Grey NATO – 239 – The Watches You Asked Us To Talk About
Published on Thu, 18 May 2023 06:00:00 -0400
Synopsis
Jason and James discuss watches that listeners have requested they talk about on the show, including the Christopher Ward C65 GMT, Damasco watches, Grand Seiko sports watches, IWC Pilot's watches, and many others. They give their thoughts on the designs, prices, history, and appeal of these timepieces from a variety of well-known and lesser-known brands. They avoid going into excessive detail about copyrighted works that were mentioned.
Links
Transcript
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| James | Hello and welcome to another episode of The Graynado. It's a loose discussion of travel, adventure, diving, driving gear, and most certainly watches. This is episode 239 and it's proudly brought to you by the ever-growing TGN supporter crew. We thank you all so much for your continued support and if you're listening and interested in supporting the show, please visit thegraynado.com for more details. Hey Jason, how you doing? |
| Jason | I'm doing pretty well. It's a little earlier than we normally record so I might I might sound a little sleepier than usual, but I'm doing fine. I'm getting ready to drive off after, after we're done recording here down to Milwaukee to do a little diving. Uh, uh, probably tomorrow was the best weather day, but, uh, other than that, yeah, just, just enjoying some, some green grass and the gardens coming up and getting some tomato plants in the ground and, you know, starting to feel like summer here. |
| James | Yeah. Back from your trip and already digging into the kind of the, one of the best parts of the year, as far as weather in this part of the world. Yeah. And the season's so short. Exactly. Yeah. And the last couple of days here have been that sort of those sort of days that you get just before a thunderstorm. Oh yeah. Warm with the breeze. I mean, yesterday was incredible. I felt like I was solar powered. It was just nice. And yeah. Man, I gotta tell you, I haven't... You've got a few things to chit chat here on the notes. I got nothing. I've been working and family's been ill, and I put in the notes like it felt like an achievement just to find the time to go get the oil changed in the Jeep. So I have very little to report as far as stuff to do. It's Tuesday when we're recording this, like Jason said a little bit earlier, goes up Thursday, and then this coming weekend is Canada's May long weekend. |
| Unknown | Oh yeah, nice. |
| James | So probably... I would think Saturday morning, we'll head up and do the first like proper weekend at the cottage, which should be fun. I'd be tempted to go Friday, but I'm in New York Thursday night for a release from a brand, which we'll talk about on next week's episode due to the timing of being Thursday night. I'm in New York for like 20 hours, maybe 22 hours, something like that. And then I get home and I guarantee that that Friday before a May long weekend will be like the toughest, longest drive into cottage country that exists. It's the one where you're considering like I should have taken a helicopter or stayed home. Yeah. Yeah. So I think probably the move would be like dawn Saturday morning. Right. Right. Which really is a nicer way to get up there. It's a little cooler. The air is a little sweeter. There's fewer people on the road and that sort of thing. So that's kind of the kind of the vibe we're at. But looking forward to that in a really big way. That's kind of my my power for the week is knowing that. should be able to get up to the cottage and see some family, and I think a handful of my siblings will be up there as well, so it should be a nice weekend. But you've got some diving planned, but you've also been up to a few other kind of fun things. What have you been doing since you got back? |
| Jason | Yeah, well, as promised, I don't know, a while back, I mentioned this might have been the year I would take the roof off of the old Land Rover, the Series 3, and finally did that last week, which it's a bit more involved than I remember Like with a Jeep or some more modern vehicles. I mean, this is a 50 year old truck now. And, and, but the, the, the roof is, uh, kind of comes apart in pieces. You kind of take off the top sheet and then, and then the side panels, you can take it off all together, of course, but it was too heavy for me to handle on my own. And so I did it in pieces and it's just a lot of, uh, undoing a lot of nuts and bolts and keeping them all straight in a baggie. And then I kind of lifted it off in sections and, and man, you know, I should have done this. Years ago. And it even fits in the garage now, which is, which is huge. It's never been inside a garage. And I, I laid the windscreen flat, uh, which is, which is fun, um, for a while until you go over about 15 miles an hour. And then that's just way too much wind in the face, but, uh, need some goggles and such. Yeah. Yeah. Um, so that's been fun. I mean, the, the truck just feels ironically, it's actually a lot quieter. You don't get this sort of, you know, garden shed echo that you get when the, that hard top is on. And yeah, um, just feels more nimble. It's it's the visibility is tremendous. Like it's a super short vehicle. I mean, it's just an 88 inch wheel base. And so like you look over your shoulder and there's the back of it, you know? So it's, uh, it's, it's, it's a blast. It's a lot of, a lot of fun. Um, but then the other Land Rover, I, I jumped in. Gosh, the day after we got back from Scotland, feeling all defender-y, you know, after our trip around Scotland in one and found that the, the turn signal wasn't, um, working. So I replaced a bulb that didn't fix it. Then I replaced the actual lamp assembly. I had a spare one, um, and wired that up. And then whatever I did hosed the, uh, both the brake lights and the, and all the indicators, all the turn signals. And so. I spent much of last weekend fiddling and troubleshooting and re-soldering and wiring and checking fuses and, you know, got advice from a number of people and I just, you know, electrical stuff is a bit of a black art. And I, I, at some point I just threw up my hands and I've, I've turned it over to the local shop here, Bishop and Rook, where I bought it. And they're, they've done well with that, uh, with that vehicle in the past. So I'm hoping they can, they can sort it out for me. So. Nice. Down to one Land Rover. |
| James | Well, at least it's currently the one that suits the season in a nice sort of way. Yeah, yeah. That's great, man. Yeah, the electrical thing can be a real pain. Obviously, people who listen to every episode know I went through a whole thing with what seemed like a fairly small alternator issue on the Jeep a while back that would just kill the brand new battery. Yeah, right. And it just took so much time and effort to hunt down what I believed it to be. And then, of course, at a certain point, you have to take the alternator off and like test diodes and that sort of thing. And you're like, man, mechanics really do an important service. Yeah. If you're busy in life, because that took a huge amount of my time. And honestly, if I look back on it, aside from the learning experience, and the fact that I like working on vehicles, not not a wise use of my time, I should have should have dropped that thing off and been working right. And for all I know, let's be honest, I added some lights to the Jeep, which have since been removed. They just weren't as useful as I thought they would be. But for all I know, I did that wiring wrong and that's what was, you know, maybe damaged a diode in the alternator or was causing some sort of other scenario while it was running. I'm not in such a position to say like, oh no. You know, my household wiring skills are pretty solid. Yeah. From working on the cottage and stuff like that, but it's a whole different world when you get into the cars. And then is the... This is a dumb question, but it would be 12 volt, right? Yeah, it is. Yeah. Yeah, it's not old enough to be... I guess the series might be a six volt system. |
| Jason | No, that's 12 volt as well. Oh, okay, cool. All right. And the older ones had dynamos, they didn't have alternators. This one, fortunately, the series is modern enough to... Pretty modern, yeah. Alternator and standard battery and all that. And I've never had electrical... Well, I shouldn't say never. I've never had serious electrical issues with that one, which everybody's always surprised about, but, uh, there's just so little on it to, to, to go wrong. And clearly whatever I did to the defender, I just added to the, to the problem. So, um, hopefully they can, they can unravel it. I mean, you know, the thing about, you talk about car mechanics and, uh, or technicians, I suppose, is more accurate term nowadays. Um, there's so much to know on a, on a vehicle. Um, everything from, you know, electrical to plumbing, to physics and fluids and, And all of that. And, you know, for an amateur, rank amateur like me, it's, you know, I'm always just sort of getting by with, with some of the simpler tasks, but I'm definitely more comfortable with a wrench in my hand than a soldering gun. Multimeter. Yeah. Multimeter. Yeah. |
| James | So. I always end up on the same four or five, like it's a YouTube video and I'd be like, you watched this four months ago. I'm like, I know I did. I know I watched it. I don't remember how to use my multimeter for this specific task. Yeah. Yeah. you know, cross loads and things like that. Hilarious. But yeah, it's always fun. But you do quickly realize like there's a difference, like you said, between fellows like you and I who bought vehicles and then have endeavored to like kind of figure out when things kind of go wrong, aren't actually broken, but are partially. And then yeah, like a technician or a mechanic where you can that you walk in and the guys that I take the jeep to, I've taken them to, you know, a couple times. They know that I know enough. They'll ask like two or three questions and then they'll be like, all right, we're good. We'll take care of the rest. I'll catch you guys later. It's good. They don't want to hear all the 30 things I tried that didn't work. I figure this is what it's like to be a doctor as well. You just spend a lot of your time like waiting for the person to stop talking about stuff that doesn't matter or has no medical basis at all. And then you just go, all right, well, we're going to take some blood and we'll move on. But yeah, that's always fun. I hope you're able to sort it out nice and quickly for you, but it sounds like the other one's certainly scratching a fun kind of summery itch at this point. Yeah, entirely. Yeah, it's great. Yeah. Well, how about some wrist check? What have you got on today? |
| Jason | Well, as I am headed off on a little dive excursion, I'm wearing my biggest, baddest dive watch. I've got the 50 Fathoms on, the titanium automatic. Nice. When I was in Polynesia, they graciously gave me a long 23 millimeter NATO, um, that was kind of made for this watch. Apparently, um, they had seen me ice diving and this with, with my own NATO on it, that was just barely long enough. And so, um, they gave me one of their super long NATOs, which I'll tuck into my dive bag and strap on before I put my dry suit or before, after I put my dry suit on. So that's great. That's, uh, that's what I'm wearing. Get it, uh, get it deep and cold, uh, tomorrow. |
| James | Very nice. Yeah. I hope the dives are great. For me this week, I've got on my Halleas Universa. It's kind of a bit of a return to a summer vibe. I've got the kind of the first series pastel blue Universa on the bracelet. I think it's like a really great sort of summer watch. It's got micro, like tool-less push button micro adjust in the clasp, which is really nice and works really well. And I just needed... It's like in some ways an opposite, still a sports watch, but like an opposite to the Pelagos, which I've been wearing a lot. And yeah, I mean, what can you say about a Hallios? They remain very difficult to buy. You kind of have to get in line and do the thing. But I really love these watches. I believe they're still working on the Universal line in general. I think it's the navy blue one and the gray. But for me, it's this pastel and the smaller case size and the no bezel kind of has a vibe all its own. |
| Jason | Yeah, it makes me want to get the Seaforth out. I mean, pastel or orange dial watches or yellow or whatever, it's like It's starting to finally feel like that time of year when I want a little more color and more of a casual vibe with my watches. |
| James | So yeah, good choice. Yeah. It's a fun one and it is that nice time of year. You know, this is when I'll lean back into stuff like the Sea Rambler and yeah, this universe and that sort of thing. It's always nice to have a kind of a bright dial, maybe even a bright strap. I don't know. That's a bridge too far for you. |
| Jason | We'll see. Yeah. I have an orange NATO. |
| James | I've never warmed up to orange NATO. I own one. I don't know. It can be a lot. It can be a lot. And for some reason, like, you know, I wore the Apple Watch Ultra a ton lately on the orange loop strap, the Alpine loop. It didn't bother me that much. Maybe it's because the orange is like a little bit less bright. It's still quite a bright strap. But yeah, for whatever reason, even on the Sea Rambler with the orange hand and the other accents and that, I can't, I have yet to really warm up to like a bright orange NATO as much as like a gray or something like that. |
| Jason | So. You know what? I've been wearing a lot. Um, over the past year, I'd say is I've got, uh, a couple of ribbed NATO's from, um, what used to be called cheapest NATO straps. Uh, now it's CNN, CNS watch bands, um, out of Sweden. Um, and, and I've got, uh, one of their mustard colored ones, which is, it's kind of aging. Well, it's kind of fading out a little bit and it's, uh, Um, I think that one looks good. I mean, I would never wear like a full on orange or yellow NATO, but like this kind of mustard is this sort of toned down color that looks pretty good with a bunch of watches. So, um, but yeah, not, not usually much for, uh, for bright colored straps. |
| James | Yeah. I mean, it's, I guess it's no wonder we went with this name for the show versus some other one, but, uh, yeah. So yeah, I want to dive into today's main topic, which is kind of an interesting one. We had a good time with the Slack crew and A's previously, and I wanted to extend that because occasionally we just get messages from people, whether it's in the TGN crew Slack or through email or DMs, like, why don't you talk about this brand? Have you heard of this watch? And like, usually it's like, I don't know that brand or I don't really care about that brand necessarily. They don't really strike me in a specific way, or I've never heard of the watch. Yeah. And I thought it'd be kind of fun just to throw it out to the TGN Slack crew. Like, you know, what are the watches that you kind of would like us to, even just for a few minutes, like dig into, but you never hear us talk about them on the show or otherwise, and it kind of feels like a hole for you. So we got a ton of responses. I avoided kind of adding or notifying the entire thread. It's, you know, 6,000 people. in an attempt for it to not, one, I don't think people necessarily want a notification from me asking for show suggestions, but two, just to keep it loosely under control. So we got the better part of like maybe 50, 50 plus sort of responses, and we went through and kind of picked the ones that we thought kind of fit the general topic. Some of the questions were about watches we talk about a lot, and others were like, oh, I would love to hear like a whole show topic, like a deep dive on certain brand and like that doesn't quite fit this vibe, but I've saved those ones to kind of help out on future shows. |
| Unknown | Yeah. |
| James | Kind of the plan here is more kind of like a light look at brands or maybe an explanation as to why some brands kind of hit blind spots for us, that sort of thing. So with that in mind, let's get to the first one from Jackson, who asked, I'd love to hear more about your guys' thoughts on the Christopher Ward, the 12 and where it fits into the integrated steel sports watch world. So for those of you who don't follow Christopher Ward, the 12 is a 40 millimeter integrated bracelet steel sports watch. We need to figure out some sort of good acronym for that because it's not like a whole thing, like it's an entire category that everybody plays at. So this is the... If you follow down, if you go upstream from this, you get to obviously things like the Chopard Alpine Eagle, and then if you go beyond that, you're back to kind of the OGs of this format, the Nautilus. arguably the Aquanaut, although we could have that argument, but definitely the Nautilus, the Royal Oak, things like that, right? And with those becoming so insanely popular in the last few years, we've seen a lot of brands, everybody from Bremont to Bell and Ross and now Christopher Ward, digging in with an integrated steel bracelet sports watch. So this, you know, a watch, and I would call it integrated, the idea is like when you can't put a different strap on the watch, Or like we had this argument on Houdinki Radio a while back was like, how do you know that it's an integrated versus not? And I said, if you can't put a NATO on it, so like if it doesn't have conventional enough lugs to suit a NATO, then it's an integrated bracelet. Yeah, yeah. I think this is an interesting watch. It's a good play by them. So they're charging 1225 for these on the bracelet. To my eyes, it looks like a very specific homage to like a Czepec Antarctique. I thought so too. |
| Jason | Or an Aquatara as well. |
| James | Or yeah, there's definitely some Aqua Terra in there with the date at six o'clock and the sort of minimal markings and that sort of thing. I think these will be very popular for them. I do worry that unlike maybe a dive watch, like steel dive watches, this might be more of a trend than an entire market segment. The watches that these reference started in the early to mid 70s, and it took them a very long time to become popular, and then they kind of like skyrocketed in popularity. in the last, say, five to seven years, definitely in the last three years in some cases. And I don't think that somebody with a Royal Oak money or Nautilus money would go, oh, well, buy the 12 from Christopher Ward. But the Tissot PRX or similar in this price point, let's call it 500 to $2,000, I think that there is a market for people who want that sort of wrist presence, that bracelet-like, comfortable, fitting, shouldn't be too thick sort of vibe. And I think within that zone, they've kind of put together a nice package. It's a nice looking watch. I think the sizing makes sense. It has a lot of kind of touch points that feel like they're part of the world of the integrated steel sports watch. Between kind of the case elements and the finishing on the bracelet, it's got an automatic Solita movement. How does this one hit you, Jason? |
| Jason | It's very handsome. Immediately when I kind of clicked the link and took a look at this, I did think of the Tropic Antarctique. Yeah. And Aquaterra, of course. And I think you know, it raises a bigger question. And I, the one that we've been asked, uh, several times and, you know, why don't you guys cover Christopher Ward more often? And I don't have an exact answer, at least from my perspective, but I, I do think that oftentimes when I see their watches, um, they're not all out homages, but I feel like so many of them are kind of reactionary to a trend. Um, they do have some that aren't certainly they've done some nice kind of jumping our stuff in the past and some interesting things with movements and, But I feel like a lot of their watches tend to kind of be, if not derivative, they feel a little reactionary and not, not wholly original or bold. And I think, you know, having handled a couple over time, they're, they're very, they feel very high quality. I've never talked to or heard from anyone that's owned one that has had any issues with them. People really, if they love the brand, they really love the brand. But I can't put my finger on it why we don't talk about them, or at least for me. What about you? |
| James | Why don't you... Why doesn't it come up more often, do you think? They never really kind of hit my radar or we didn't overlap in spaces aside from just kind of general watch enthusiasm. I would also say that typically what gets me into a brand is they'll make one watch that I feel is kind of undeniably for me, and they haven't made that watch in my mind. It's a mix of kind of some aesthetics and the logo and the rest of it. And then the other side of this, and this will come up with some of the other brands that we talk about, is I find that a lot of times, and this is sort of a mix of like a bias and probably some cognitive dissonance, but I don't really have a taste for watches where you could remove the brand and just put another brand on the dial and it wouldn't, like it would still work. Right, right. Like there's something about a Bremont that feels like a Bremont. There's something about a Seiko dive watch that feels like a Seiko dive watch. You know what I mean? Like if you take Seiko or Bremont off one of those watches, or if you take, in many cases, you take Rolex off the dial of a Rolex, it doesn't even need to be there. Definitely with something like the Pelagos, Tudor wouldn't need to put their name on this watch. Yeah. Right? Yeah. I think that's part of what gets me with some of the Christopher Ward stuff, is that it doesn't have... I don't know what their kind of one identity is, and maybe I've missed it. whatever the kind of core is. For me, you know, it's for Braymont, it's a supermarine. Yeah. And Braymont might say that it's an MB. It's just like, it's a, it's the way that it like hits you or me in this case. And I think that's, that's why the necessarily the brand, you know, like maybe I attached to Hallios because of the Canadian and the Vancouver and the rest of it and just missed the Christopher Ward because they were across the pond and that sort of thing. Yeah. I think they make a solid watch. I think these look good and I can't imagine you buy... If you look at these and you really like the look of the 12 and you can get one in your price point, that sort of thing. You can get one and they make them in titanium as well. These are handsome looking watches, they'll be nicely made and I can't imagine that you'd be disappointed by the overall experience. Yeah, I think it's good. I think it'll be interesting to see other brands go in this direction. We've seen so many... Almost too many to bother listing. at this point, but I think at this price point, they've got a compelling product. And I think if you were in the market for something on the more entry-level range of, say, Tag Heuer, I definitely want to at least take a run over to Christopher Ward's website and see what you could find there, because you might find something that's more specific. You know what I mean? Yeah. That's how that hits me. But thank you very much for that question, Jackson. Next up, we've got one from Dean. who asked the... And from the names, I'm just going from the full name that's given in Slack. I hope everybody's comfortable with that. Some of you have last names, some of you don't. But Dean mentioned the A13A Pilot Watch in that it's a killer central seconds chronograph. Neither Jason or I had heard of this watch. It's a 42mm steel pilot's watch with a quartz movement that is also a chronograph and uses a central seconds and minutes. I actually think it's really cool. It's about $700-ish. you know, it's sold out of Europe. It has very much like an IWC style case, and then the dial is kind of, yeah, like a Flieger-esque, and then it has kind of two chronograph hands, one for minutes, one for seconds. I didn't even know that this... It's an Etabase movement. I wasn't aware that this movement was kind of still around and kicking. It's surprising that we're not seeing it in other watches from other brands, but I thought this thing's pretty cool. |
| Jason | Yeah. I'm always impressed by, by what people come up with. And I, you know, they're definitely listeners that are, you know, more active on forums and really kind of dialed into kind of the, the micro-brand scene even more than we are. And this is, this is a really cool find. Um, and I was looking at A13A's website and they've got, they've got kind of a cool automatic as well. I don't know if you saw that one, but it's a flyback, um, with pushers on the left side, not to digress from the one that, uh, that Dean showed us, but, but the automatic's pretty wild too. It's got a modified Swiss flyback chronograph movement in it. Um, you know, I mean, this is, this is just a cool brand. I don't know why it's, uh, hasn't really popped up more, but, uh, yeah, that's a, that's a really cool watch. I love the, the center minute chronograph, um, is obviously a complication that, that I've long loved and most people do too. I'd love to see more of these, but to see it in a quartz movement, I mean, yeah, it's pretty wild. |
| James | Super cool. Yeah. Thank you so much, Dean, for the heads up on this. Definitely a brand to keep on the sort of radar in the future and looks like a couple of really solid options as far as their pilot watches go. So hit the show notes for that. If you want to check out the A-13A pilot watch or the Flyback Chrono as well. Next up, we've got one from Michael Harris who said, I've recently become fascinated with the new TAG Heuer Carrera glass box. For me, it might be the best new piece, or at least one that interests me the most from this year's watches and wonders. Jason, any thoughts on the glass box? We touched on it briefly when we did our kind of show recap. |
| Jason | Yeah. I'm with Michael. I'm pretty smitten with this watch. I keep coming back to it and it's not a watch I would likely own. I just, I like my water resistance. I like, you know, a dive watch when push comes to shove, but you know, I remember way back in my early days of the forums and just learning about watches. I remember going to like a Macy's and seeing um a Tag Heuer Carrera in in the jewelry department or whatever and trying it on and looking at it and it was like they're just the Carrera is such a handsome watch in almost any iteration and you know you just wonder like what what more can they do to this watch to kind of differentiate it and this one they've done enough to it to to really make it feel like a like a new watch but then you know it's it's got all the kind of the classic traits of of the old Carreras and Yeah, I'm really taken with this. I'd like to see one of these in person myself. |
| James | Yeah, me too. So Fratello says 46, so obviously it's 39 millimeters wide in a steel case, 46 millimeters lug to lug and 13 thick, which isn't so bad for a chronograph. |
| Unknown | Yeah. |
| James | That would wear a little bit smaller than an SPB 143 in almost every dimension. So it should be pretty comfortable on wrist. I think this is probably the most thoughtful and like well executed product tags had in a while. Yeah. And that comes from someone who's not exactly a Tag Heuer fan. Yeah. I had my time with the brand when you could buy a 2110 300 meter Aqua Racer for like a thousand dollars second hand. And now those some very similar watches by my measure are several multiples more than that. So I think that this is more in like if you're gonna spend a certain amount of money, this makes more sense to me. Yeah. And I think they're really pretty. They're the right size. I can't imagine they won't be very successful. I, yeah, it's one I would like, I'd like to see in person. And I saw one like for 30 seconds on someone's wrist at the lucid event we did in Geneva. I mean, it's beautiful. You look at it and immediately this is another one where like it doesn't have to say tag on the dial, right? I don't need to be told like immediately it's a career. Yeah. And it's done a nice thing. And I mean, this is high praise. It's done a nice thing where this feels like if they'd never stopped making the early careers, they just kept going. |
| Unknown | Mm. |
| James | and didn't jump around into all the hundreds of variations they've done, this feels like the Daytona sort of career take. Yeah, yeah. Lasting lineage back all the way to the early stuff, a good looking watch. I think that we should see more and more iterations of this. I would love to see them take the platform and make a very, very modern chronograph, like you remember the micrographs from a few years ago? Yeah. Something in that aesthetic, give us titanium, kind of a harder edge, play a little bit into the Grand Seiko space with it, I think would be pretty interesting. But I think that these are very cool watches, and it's really nice to see TAG, I think, kind of thread the needle, because they have a tough job due to the breadth of the brand. I think it can be difficult for them to make something very specific and speak to a certain audience, and I think they're doing that really well with this watch. So good question, Michael Harris. |
| Jason | Yeah. Next up, we've got one from Michael M, who... wants us to chat a little bit about the Citizen Skyhawk and Nighthawk and just Eco Drive in general, which, you know, we've certainly had no shortage of Citizen content on TGN, but specifically these two watches, the Skyhawk and the Nighthawk, this is kind of two Citizen families that I've long kind of liked or admired from a distance. They're very distinctive and I don't know, I don't know about you, but I see a lot of these on actual pilots wrists and always just, you know, just people out and about kind of people that aren't specifically watch people, but they, they like a good thing on their wrist and it'll just be there for forever through thick and thin. That's how I always feel about these watches. |
| James | I think the Skyhawk is one of those watches that it has this like nerd credibility. It's a little bit like in the space of an aerospace, a little bit more complicated. It has the longstanding blue angels connection, but it's also a watch that you get at duty free. Yeah. Yeah. people buy them on cruises, people buy them at airports, that's I think probably one of the reasons you see them on pilots is they're useful, they can do a bunch of stuff, they have pilot specific features, granted I'm sure pilots have computers and the rest of it that do for them, but they're also available... These are readily available watches in most retail scenarios, which I think speaks to their long standing kind of presence. Yeah. I think the Nighthawk is an incredible watch. We definitely talked about it recently, whether it was on a Citizen specific episode or Quartz specific episode, but in the last year, we rambled on about the standard Nighthawk and then some of the new versions in the slightly larger cases, the sharper edged cases, all really good. And then as far as EcoDrive, man, I feel like we've talked about EcoDrive a fair bit. Great technology, really love Quartz to begin with for certain types of watches. And I think EcoDrive makes a lot of sense for zero fuss, for maybe somebody's first sort of enthusiast watch because it's just never, it's not gonna let you down. They just... Right. Just a good product and we're huge Citizen fans. Obviously, we like some of their weirder stuff specifically, like the Aqualands. They're just so charming, but I don't think you go wrong with a Skyhawk or a Nighthawk. It's just a question of, do you want the little screens? Do you want the sort of Navitimer aesthetic with all the numbers and the slide rule and the complicated piloty sort of stuff? Or do you want something a little bit more simplified. I mean, the Nighthawk moves a little bit closer to something like a Flieger aesthetic in some ways, but nice sizes, good watches, well-made, lots of functions, and pretty commonly available, like with a discounted price, both on Citizen's website or probably at your local retailer. |
| Jason | One thing I like about the Skyhawk, I'm looking at the Promaster Skyhawk AT, and you know, it's titanium, it's EcoDrive, it has this kind of wild sort of Navitimer meets aerospace functionality and appearance. Um, and it's like 200 meter water resistant, you know, on a bracelet in titanium. I mean, it's, it really would be just kind of a cool one watch for somebody who really isn't into watches. And it, and it is, it does have that nerd appeal because it kind of as aqualands are for, for divers. I mean, this is like, this isn't a watch that, you know, the average person's just going to throw on because there's just so much going on. So you have to kind of really like to putz and press buttons and and kind of learn about a slide rule and that sort of thing, which, uh, which I really admire about it. |
| James | So yeah, my, my late grandfather, believe it or not, had a Skyhawk, a black orange one that he bought on a cruise ship, I think to Alaska and he loved it. Couldn't read any of the features, but the hands were big enough. The hour and minute hands were big enough and he liked that it felt kind of two-ish and essential. And you know, he had spent a huge portion of his working career in pretty tough places in Africa, doing medical work and that sort of thing. And I think as he got older and kind of settled into the later stage of his life, I think he appreciated that it kind of had this tool-ish go anywhere, make no excuses, but it also... He didn't have to worry about winding it or all the stuff he had dealt with over years of watches, of more conventional old school watches. They're an interesting thing because they apply to such a wide variety of the market. You could know all the features on the watch and love it, and you could know none of them and still love it. Yeah, yeah. Cool stuff, big Citizen fans. Next up, we've got one from Aaron Shapiro. He says, it would be cool to hear your thoughts on Inacar Sherpas. I've always wanted one of their GMTs. I also like the Sherpas and the Sherpa Ops, the Sherpa Jets, all these versions. I remember there was a time maybe 10 years ago, that was my main eBay fascination, was trying to find one of these watches that was in good nick. And that was before they got really expensive, like before a slightly wider group of people suddenly kind of tuned in. And then now I guess the brand's been relaunched. And I'll be honest, due to this question, I went to the brand's website, which is pretty tough, and flipped through their catalog and it doesn't look like they're making anything that's distinctly Inacar in my mind. I could be missing it, it could be on a different website, but if the relaunch brand is making new Sherpas, they're not prominent on their website. If we're talking about an old one, I think they're great. I would want to know all the stuff you want to know about a vintage watch, who you're buying it from, what's the condition, what you should expect when it shows up, can you wear it, all that kind of stuff. But from a design standpoint, I'm a big fan. Yeah. And I think we talked about Anikar stuff on very early episodes. Yeah. Yeah. I could also be saying that wrong. It could be Anikar. You know, my generalized apology as always. Yeah. |
| Jason | I don't know. I've always said Anikar, but I just know it's Racine backwards. I think that was the founder's name, I believe. The Sherpa guide is the world time one that I've always loved. And there were several iterations of that. Um, with kind of different hands and bezels and things, but I'm looking at kind of a rather beat up looking older one. That's for sale on a website. And, and it's one of those watches kind of like an old doc said that, that they look good when they get pretty beat up, you know, the world time, um, names are kind of scuffed and wearing off and you get some city cities on the ring that, that maybe, um, you don't see much anymore. I, I remember wanting one of these for many years because it had Columbo Um, the capital of Sri Lanka on, and you just don't see that on world time, uh, brings very often, but, uh, yeah, and a car is a cool brand. I do like a lot of their stuff. |
| James | Yeah, me too. Uh, we had another request for like a deep dive on any car. And certainly if I could find an expert to, to weigh in, uh, as kind of a third party, that would be a fascinating episode. Cause I have some questions. Sounds like you guys do too. So let us keep that on the back burner for now. Next up, we've got one from Rob. He said, we've got to talk about the new SCRFAs, the 10-year diver one and the topside crew. So that's kind of wide ranging. I would say that, Jason, like in some ways, we haven't talked a ton about SCRFA lately because they're so hard to buy. Yeah. So it doesn't feel like they necessarily need more, more shout out or more, more sort of limelight necessarily. But the 10th anniversary stuff are really good. And definitely when they went on sale, it was a whole thing on the slack of people trying to hit these. I'm on record and Jason, maybe you're the same, maybe not, but I'm on record for really preferring the diver ones in titanium and with the fully graduated bezel. That's kind of like the sweet spot for me, so it's the MS stuff. Yeah. But if you're going for a slightly elevated take on their sort of standard watch, so in this case, you have frame around the date, that sort of stuff. We couldn't be bigger scurfa fans. We just worry that, you know, we're part of the cycle that's kind of making Paul's life busier than it should. And, you know, they're months out. So if you're keen on a scurfa, get on the site, kind of get in line, in effect, and that sort of thing, or swing around on the buy, sell, trade channel on the TGN Slack. One pops up every now and then there, and they go really quickly. Everybody's been super realistic, at least in terms of inside the crew for pricing and that sort of thing. Those are really fun watches. Couldn't be bigger fans of Scurfa. Yeah. |
| Jason | Yeah. And I'm with you on the kind of liking the, the MS stuff, the titanium. Um, but, uh, yeah, I mean, they're, they're just, they're great. They're highly legible. They're obviously very robust and, and made by a, just a cool guy who, uh, who obviously takes it very seriously, but, uh, keeps them priced very affordably. So yeah, huge fans. All right. Jonathan wants to know our opinion about, uh, Ressants, the type three and the type five specifically. What about you? I mean, I, I admire what Ressence does. I think they're fascinating watches. They're definitely not my aesthetic. Um, but very cool pieces. |
| James | Yeah, I absolutely love them. I think they're super cool, but I wouldn't buy one. Um, I think it's the kind of watch that I would buy thinking, you know, like it would work for me or, you know, based on just how beautiful they are and kind of eccentric and different, you know, unique even, you know, I love the type three in white. It's absolutely gorgeous. super legible, really fun, but in the end, they're quite expensive by my measure. You're getting something very specific for that money from a very specific sort of mindset, but not something that I think I would buy and then proceed to wear enough for it to make sense. I like the Type 3. The Type 5, I think, is one of the coolest modern takes on a dive watch that's come out in the last decade. Yeah. It's just like a deeply cool, beautiful, fun piece, but I also don't think I would buy and wear one. I think in making something this specific, this specialized, this sort of, again, to use the term unique, you're also kind of limiting the thing. And I think in many ways, Jason, you and I do kind of prefer traditional watches, or at least watches that come from traditional footings, and recents don't. I think they're very special, very cool watches. I'm never surprised when you meet somebody either from the tech industry or who's like an architect or designer, and this is the watch that they love or that they own. Right. It always makes sense to me. But in my mind, this is like the logical conclusion of a Braun watch in some ways. It's like it's taken to the absolute as far as it could go in terms of beauty and execution and engineering and like a design philosophy that decides the way that the time is actually displayed. all of that super thoughtful. And I think that's what you're paying for is this. It's like aesthetically, I wouldn't call it minimalist, but it's, but from a, from a certain philosophy of showing the time it is no, no hands ever interact or overlap. They can really integrate a bunch of different features into, into something. And it's a singular sort of thing. There aren't other watches that look like, like recents watches. So I'm a big fan, but I would say it's one of those things. I'm a big fan, but it wouldn't necessarily be for me. |
| Jason | Yep. I agree. Let's move on to one from our friend Chris Soul and Michael Harris also chimed in on this one with a suggestion to talk about a little bit about Longines. You know, we don't talk about Longines a lot, I guess, but I love so much of their stuff. |
| James | Yeah. For me, the brand is very hit or miss. They either make something that I really love, like the Big Eye Chrono. Yeah. I loved that when it came out. I still love that watch. They're super cool when you see them. You know, the Legend Diver, gorgeous, kind of was right at the early stages of the whole neo-vintage kind of trend. And then on the other side, they make a lot of stuff that I would say is sort of more general, less for the enthusiast. And I think where the company has kind of had trouble finding a footing is they didn't have a great dive watch offering when steel dive watches suddenly exploded in popularity. They had this incredible vintage dive watch, but and I'm sure I'll upset some big fans of the Hydra Conquest. In many ways, I think that when I have those watches in my hand, they don't feel specifically special or like a finished, fully finished design. They're nicely made. I have nothing against them from the quality standpoint, and they made them in a bunch... They made and make them in a bunch of different sizes, which is great. but they never quite hit an aesthetic where I had to have one or wanted one, despite the fact that I really like the brand and would be happy to wear a long jeans on my wrist. I think of them very much like in the vibe of when they're good. They're like a Swiss Seiko. Yeah, the value propositions there, they'll do it in courts and automatic. They make, they'll do a few different colors. Everything's well executed, but there's something There's something about specifically the Hydra Conquest that never spoke to me. It didn't feel like a design that I really liked. Yeah, same here. And of course, that's fine. It's not to say that it's a bad design, just not for me. All of this is hyper subjective. But if you jump into the Spirit Collection, I think they've found a new zone that seems to be working really well for them. They're getting a lot of traction from this collection. I mean, what do you want? Do you want to get really nitpicky? I think the five stars on the dial have to go. It looks like a Uber rating. Like I just... I don't get it. It's unnecessary. Aside from the stars on the dial, I really love the way these look. I love the... I think the sizing, the lug to lug is long on a lot of the cases, but when they're on your wrist, I didn't find it to bother me necessarily. I've had a chance to try a few of these on, but they're doing titanium, they're doing chronographs, they're doing two and three register chronographs, 37 millimeter steel, you know, with a date. And I think like the pricing is very realistic. I think the 42 millimeter, the Spirit GMT is awesome. I do wish that they had opted for, because it's Longines, so they should be able to use and add a CO7. And I think that would suddenly make, they would have a Black Bay GMT competitor on their hands and they could do so at a lesser price point, which I think would be remarkable. And in my mind, if I was in charge of Longines, and especially when it comes to things like the Spirit and the Hydra Conquest, I would just be trying to offer a Longines take on what's working for Tudor. |
| Unknown | Yeah. |
| James | And I think in some ways, that's what we're getting from the Spirit. There's a little bit of Breitling in there. There's a little bit of Longines in there. It's a really nice, attractive watch in a bunch of different colors. Obviously, big GMT fans, and I would love to see... I mean, honestly, I would love them to just go ahead and do a full-on Spirit diver. |
| Jason | Very well may see one someday at the rate they're going. I mean, there's so many different iterations of the Spirit. I'm just scrolling and scrolling and scrolling. Over on the Dive Watch side, yeah, I agree with you about the Hydra Conquest, and they've kind of stubbornly held on to that design for so long. And I think the Dive Watches that obviously catch my eye are obviously the Legend Diver. But then what do you think of the Ultracron? Do you like that? I'm a little mixed on that one. |
| James | Yeah, I mean, the Ultracron kind of reminds me of like the Eterna Contiki, which I own, right? that sort of cushion cased with the very short lugs. I think it's a great looking watch. I think a lot of their watches are great. In this case, it's 43 millimeters, which is like a non starter at this point. I have a 40, I think the Contiki is 44 and I don't wear it because of it, but I love the aesthetic. I mean, shrink it a bit, give us one at 38, 39. I mean, as long as they should be able to conceivably make anything. Yeah. But I think these are cool. I think I think pretty much anything they touch if they want to is cool They make some really cool dress watches and obviously if you're if you're moon phase Kind of acolyte longines is on your radar for that especially for their price point, right? The master collection and that sort of stuff. I think they it's it's a fascinating brand It's one of those ones where they're big enough that they have to also kind of like tag Heuer where they have to do Stuff for enthusiasts that have these weird specific tastes about the size and this and then that And then they have to do stuff that sits in store shelves. Yeah. And sell to people who just want a really nicely made watch that has a brand that they recognize, that kind of suits all of those things. But man, I think that when they do the Spirit Diver, they're going to have the option there to do something in sort of a skin divery, like an SPB 143, but it'll have their option. Theoretically, you could go to a pretty high-end movement from ETA in there, like from the Swatch Group. I think that'll be really exciting. I think the flyback is awesome, like the chronograph is really, really cool. Yeah, I think these are cool. I really hope that they stick with this line and in some ways it's there. And I don't wanna be too like, oh, they're chasing Tudor like everybody is to a certain extent, but this feels like they're Black Bay in that it has some of their brand identity in it, but it's also kind of following the enthusiast kind of taste point at the moment. Yeah. So yeah, I just hope they keep iterating in this space. I think, you know, that, that blue GMT and the blue chronograph, they both look, they all look really good. So it'll be interesting to see where they go with it and what kind of special stuff they're able to make. |
| Jason | Yeah, I agree. All right. Let's move on to one from Matt Kessler Cleary, who wants us to talk a little bit about Alpina's Alpiner Extreme, particularly the regular three-hand version. I don't know what to, you know, there's another brand we don't really talk about a lot. Um, and, and in many ways I almost kind of see them in the same light as I do Christopher Ward. They're handsome watches. They seem to be really well-made. Um, but I, I just, I'm not really drawn to them, uh, kind of, uh, overall. |
| James | Yeah. For me, like it, it's like a, into the, like Maurice Lacroix, I guess, Christopher Ward, like where they, they have watches that I feel like they're known for, but with Alpina, I'm not sure that they do. I think they're still trying to find that basis. |
| Unknown | Yeah. |
| James | And with something like this, the one thing is I would say I don't wanna be unfair, maybe it's 50% a joke or 90% joke, but what's extreme about this watch? It's a steel watch with 200 meters of water resistance. Again, this is one where I think if it didn't say Alpina on the dial or didn't have the sort of counter, the red triangle counterbalance on the seconds hand, it could come from 20 other brands. Yeah. It is an integrated bracelet steel sports watch, you know, 41 millimeters. It's 11 millimeters, 11 and a half millimeters thick. So it should wear really well. 42.5 millimeters lug to lug. It actually might wear very well. I like the look of the bracelet. I really like the look of the dial. I think this is the kind of stuff they're going to have to keep making, but they're also going to have to find a way to like speak with people who would actually buy it. Jason, I assume you can see the USD pricing there. |
| Jason | I can. It's $2,195. |
| James | Yeah. So at $21.95, you've got to convince people that it's significant, that it's that much better than a Seiko Prospex, right? And I think that can be an uphill battle. Seiko doesn't make a watch that looks directly like this. As a watch, it's a great watch, but the world's kind of full of pretty solid, good watches at every price point. And I think the competition is just very hard for brands like this. Yeah, yeah. That said, I mean, like I said, I don't totally get the extreme name. It looks like a very wearable, I feel like you put extreme on a watch that's 47 millimeters and does something else or is tougher or is made out of some other material. This feels like it should be their kind of core product. And I think maybe there's some positioning there that doesn't read the same way. But I think it's a nice looking watch, most likely well made. That's my experience with the Alpina stuff. And I hope that they're able to kind of garner more success as they continue to make kind of nice looking reasonably priced watches. Yeah. |
| Jason | It brings to mind, you know, looking at this, um, and having just talked about the Christopher ward with the integrated bracelet. Um, we, we could almost do a whole episode on integrated bracelet, steel sports watches. Um, once we come up with an acronym that absolutely took up half the show to, to say the name every time. Um, but you know, it makes me think like how, how far away are we from Rolex reintroducing something like the, well probably not the oyster quartz, but, You know, they made an automatic, I think, was it the reference 1530 or something? I can't remember. But, you know, do you think we'll see one from Rolex anytime soon? You'd think they would. They're not real bandwagon jumpers, but I can't help but think they're not looking at the trend and thinking, we have something like this in our back catalog. |
| James | Man, that's tough with Rolex. I could see them doing something in the vein of like an Oysterquartz. Yeah. But not quartz. Yeah. Yeah. Because that had sort of the flat front flank and lug. Yeah, yeah, I don't I don't really know it's it's it's like I find it even up to this year. I find it like impossible to really say what Rolex is going to do like look at the bubble watch and the emoji thing and 42 millimeter titanium yacht master like they just do whatever they want. And I think if it's if it's the obvious move, they're not going to do it or they're going to do it in platinum with a you know, an ice dial or... And then they'll make you wait three or four more years for the one, right? Yeah. So tough to say with Rolex for sure. But look, I think Alpina, like I said, interesting brand, and I think these are solid looking watches, probably something worth checking out in person, especially after I had that recent foray with Formex, which I rather... I was surprised by how much I liked it. It wore really well and had a bunch of thoughtful design elements and technology and that sort of thing. So Thanks for the heads up on that, Matt. Appreciate it very much, and those are probably something worth taking a closer look at. Next up, we've got one from Adam Peterson, who suggested Slow Watches. Never heard of them. I've only heard of them once. Maybe even it was through the TGN Slack, or maybe I got an ad on Instagram for them, but it's essentially a single-hand 24-hour watch. They're quartz. They're $300. They come in a bunch of different versions. I would say, like, super modern, as far as the thing goes, you know, kind of has little bit, I'm not sure how to say this, like it has a little bit of like the Kickstarter aesthetic. Does that make sense if I say it? Like the case and that sort of thing. But they're nice looking watches. I like the idea, like intellectually I like the idea. On my own wrist I want minutes and seconds. You know, on some watches I can deal with not having seconds, but I definitely like having the minutes and that sort of thing. but maybe as a weekend watch or otherwise or as something you wear like intentionally to disconnect. Cool. I like it. Cool design. Nice idea. There's a lot in there. So if that sounds interesting to you, it looks like they're about 250 to 300 bucks. And I could see these being a lot of fun, like I said, for a weekend watch or for someone who wants to wear a watch, but like otherwise they sit at a computer like where it's more of a fashion option. Right. Because this would be sort of an aesthetic conversation starter. It's a big dial with one hand, you know, the 24-hour numerals are way out on the outside. It'd be funny to wear one of these for a week or something and see how much it just kind of messed with my ability to tell the time, because you can't glance at it, or at least I wouldn't be able to. |
| Jason | Yeah, I mean, it has a bit of the Meistersinger vibe to it, and I agree with you 100%. I think it definitely looks like an aesthetic statement piece more than what I like about watches, which is the whole mechanical interaction of the seconds and the minutes and the hours, especially when it comes to a mechanical watch where you're kind of watching it all work together in concert. And I think this one is more, it's, it's like a static, it's more of a static product. It's more like, you know, you're just kind of into it for the, for the vibe or kind of what it says about you or your philosophy. So. |
| James | Yeah, which is also fine. I'm not... That's largely how I treat vintage watches or like as fashion watches. Yeah. I'm just... It's about that vibe, right? Right, for sure. Let's see if we can buzz through a few of these a little bit quicker, because I'd like to see how many... If we can get to everything on the list. Yeah. Next up, we've got one from Beer Nye. He's interested in us talking about like 90s and 2000s Seamasters that aren't the 2254, ones that we're interested in. And to be honest, I guess maybe not just Seamasters or not... three-hand plus date Seamasters, but we've talked a ton about the GMTs of the same era. Yeah. The great white and the black version. You obviously, we had a whole discussion about the Regatta from that era. The Apnea, I guess, sorry, to be more accurate. I love a lot of these. We've talked about the mid-size versions of like the Bond ones as being an interesting value if you wanted a smaller watch. Any other ones kind of stand out for you? |
| Jason | Well, it's not much of a variation from those, but the, the quartz, um, seamasters, the quartz bond ones, um, especially the ones with that had tritium dials. Like I look really hard at those because I think as the aluminum bezels fade, um, and the tritium starts to turn a little gold, like those watches are like, like back in the day, I wouldn't have given them a second thought, but now like throw that watch on a NATO strap. That would just be the ultimate sort of, um, go anywhere, do anything watch with, with a little bit of, kind of the fun, you know, wink wink sort of bond insider stuff to it. I think, I think those would be my kind of sentimental favorites other than the 2254 from that era. |
| Unknown | Yeah, cool. |
| James | Good question on that one, Birnai. It's something that we could probably dedicate an entire episode to. It's definitely been a topic in the past where I link pretty closely with the 2254, but there's a lot of gems from that era. Next up, we've got one from Brendan Walsh who said, would love to hear your thoughts about the Tudor P01 and whether it has a real future in Tudor's lineup. I think we're pretty quick on this one. I think if you had asked me the year that the Tudor P01 came out, would this watch be around in 2023, I'd say, man, I don't think it's going to be around in 12 months. It's a really cool, super, hyper, hyper niche take on a Tudor at a time when they were nailing a really good watch that appealed to generalist buyers and enthusiasts to BlackBerrys, right? Yeah. I think the P01's very cool and but I was surprised when I went to the factory recently to see them making more. So it must be popular. I don't think I've ever seen. I don't see them on instagram like in my world of the very little I use instagram. I don't think I've seen any on slack and I don't I haven't come across them in real life either. So I it's a super specific hyper fun. It kind of in the same vein is like an fxd in that it does It has a very specific outlook on what that watch should be. I'm very happy that they made it. People got upset back in the day when it came out, as they often do, but yeah, I don't... I'm surprised they still make and offer them now. Not that it's bad in any way, just that it's such a specific watch. |
| Jason | Yeah, it was a real head scratcher when they first debuted at Baselworld, but yet they were fascinating. And I remember getting that few minutes to try it on and look at it, and then Just a month or so ago, uh, I got to handle one for a little longer, um, at a dealer here, um, a pre-owned one. And I really quite like it. It's, it's a watch I could see really having fun with because it kind of fits into what, what I like about watches and that's just stuff to play with. And that, that interesting sort of bezel lock and, and just kind of the weird strap fitment. Um, yeah, I think they're cool. I mean, I don't know how long they'll last or if there's a quote unquote future in, in tutors lineup for it, but. To my mind, even if it doesn't have a future, it'll be one of those kind of cult classics for a long time. |
| James | Yeah, at this point, it's been around for a few years, so there's a few of them out there. Yeah. Be interesting to see if the FXD stays as a production model, especially with them numbering them by the year. Yeah. As long as the PL1's been around, right? Right. Next up, we've got one from Ken Heinlein. Sorry, Ken, if that's not how I pronounce your last name, but he's asking questions about watches that haven't left our imagination from the last couple of years. Do you still think about the FXD or the Pro, those both being tutors? What are your thoughts of some of the Aorus things, like the 36 millimeter full steel or the Carbon Doxa? So I'll jump in quick. The Carbon Doxa came up a few times in questions, and I feel like I talked about it a ton on the show, but maybe not in the continuum. I would still absolutely love to buy one. Right now, it's between a Shark Hunter and a White Pearl, and it's a question of... It would have to be the same move that I made with the Pelagos, where I would sell several watches to buy it. But I would still very much like to have one. Right now, the Pelagos is really scratching most dive watch itches, but it doesn't do the carbon thing. |
| Unknown | Yeah. |
| James | And every time I see a carbon, there's a couple of guys on the TGN Slack that have one. Every time I see one come up, I want it. The best I can tell you is I've narrowed it down to a Shark Hunter or the White Pearl, and I can't decide which one I kind of like, because I think the Shark Hunter is a better looking version, a little bit more doxa. Yeah. But the White Pearl in my mind is way cooler. It's just weirder with the loom dial and the white on the carbon. Like if I'm going to go carbon, like why not just go all the way? I don't need a conventional looking watch. I have so many of those. Right. So I'm probably leaning white pearl. And if I could make one happen, it would be a question of selling a handful more watches. Just went through that process with the Pelagos. So these days I'm still very much like in the honeymoon phase of the Pelagos, but the the carbon docks is always right there in the wings. |
| Jason | Yeah. Chris McRiddle was wearing his his carbon shark hunter in Glasgow a couple of weeks ago and I got to handle it and man, it's just, it's such a bewitching watch. I really do love that one. And for me, it would be the shark hunter all the way. It was just such a, such a cool stealthy piece that it just, it just looks tough. It's a, it's really neat. What about these others? Do you, do you, did you like the FXD? Would you, could you see yourself? Well, I shouldn't even say, could you see yourself getting one because you have kind of your ideal Pelagos already, but yeah, I absolutely adore the FXD. |
| James | I think it's one of the coolest watches modern Tudor has produced. but it's also just a bit too big for me. Same thing that kept me from buying a standard Pelagos, it kept me from an FXD. And if I could fit an FXD, I would have bought a blue Pelagos. But the FXD is one of the coolest to watch that I now very much attribute or mentally link with Asha Wagner, which I like quite a bit. She just has hers on a bevy of cool straps, and they're really rad watches with a really cool, legitimate backstory. And then as far as the pro goes, I don't think I do think about the pro very much. I think it's really solid product. I think that it's a watch that they should make and they should make more GMTs. But as an owner of a 16570, it's not a watch that was going to be on my buy list unless I was selling the Rolex, which I'm not. Yeah. Which is kind of maybe a flippant answer, but it's that easy for me. That watch heavily references a 1655, which is then kind of the lineage of the Rolex I already have. So they would be very much redundant. And in my mind, while the Pro is a little bit smaller, ever so slightly, maybe less than a millimeter smaller in width, my Explorer 2 is considerably thinner and sits a little lighter on the wrist. So I think the Pro is a great product, but not something that was going to be... Something I was gonna shell out for. I was really waiting for something like the Pelagos 39 or a theoretical Pelagos GMT. Yeah, yeah. And then with the Oris, I think it's a really fun, really special watch, but it wasn't something I was going to buy either. I enjoyed having it for a little while and kicking around with it, but it wasn't going to be something that I was going to need in my collection of sort of travel watches at this point. How about you, Jason? Any of these been on your mind more or less since they came out? |
| Jason | Every time I see the FXD, it piques my curiosity. I wouldn't mind spending a little time with one and You know, I guess of funny, you know, having owned a first generation Pelagos and handled several over the years, the FXD is the one Pelagos. I think that. That if I were to be plunking down my own money, I think that would be the one. I don't know. It's just has the quirky element to it. And I like, I like fixed bar watches. I mean, I wear a lot of NATO straps anyway, as do you. And so I think that that one would, would kind of scratch a cool itch and just be just a fun, fun, kind of very quirky. |
| James | kind of take on what Tudor does so well. Totally. I could definitely see you getting one of these in a trade or something in the future. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Fun question, Ken. Thank you very much for that. Next up, we've got one from Headers, H-E-D-D-E-R-S, asking about Damasco watches and whether or not they sort of live in Zin's shadow. This could definitely be a whole topic. I was around when Damasco was kind of like an early forum darling and then started to push towards their own movement. It was a brand that I consistently spoke with our buddy Paul Hubbard, who's on the Slack and probably has a couple, at least one Damasco, would be my guess. Maybe not at this point, I don't know. Yeah, a very interesting brand that for whatever reason hasn't quite broken wider than these sort of specific circles that they operate within. Have you ever had a Damasco, Jason? |
| Jason | Never have. I think I've only seen one in person once and I forget about them. I mean, I just don't see them on Instagram or on Slack or, or anywhere. And, um, they have such an amazing reputation and they are spoken of, um, in the same breath as, as in every time. I mean, anytime someone brings up Damasco, so I don't, I don't have an answer for why they aren't, uh, more popular. I really don't. Is it the price? |
| James | It could be something. Nope. The price makes sense to me. I don't wanna be unfair because I'm... So let me be clear, I'm making up what I'm about to say, but sometimes when you see a brand and the product's incredible, the distribution isn't. Think about the struggles that Zinn has had selling in North America. They have a partner now with Watch Buys, but that's the only way, so you can't go to a store and see them. And I think that's tough, especially if you're priced against entry level tag and Seiko and Citizen and that sort of thing, and not have the ability to show the watch necessarily on the wrist. So now with Damasco, you can see them in person, depending on where you are. The one spot that I know of, and I know I've met these guys on a Leica trip in the past, is Camera West. Really good guys, obviously mega camera nerds and huge watch nerds. But among, I think they have Fortis, they have Damasco, they have a handful of interesting brands. And I think these are ones that it's probably worth seeing in person, but the pricing makes sense to me. The product has an incredible reputation. and they didn't kind of fizzle out like Kobold. Oh yeah. I think in some ways Kobold kind of shared a similar time, maybe Kobold was a few years earlier. The oral history of TimeZone and WatchySeek, we'll sort some of these out in the future. But yeah, I think these are great watches. Like Jason said, no one ever says a bad thing about a Damascus. So it's probably just a question of that final leap of having retail environments. where people can see the watch and try them on. Yeah. Because otherwise the rest, you're speaking just to enthusiasts, right? People on the forums who have, have garnered a comfort zone to buy something they haven't seen yet. All right. |
| Jason | Uh, next one comes from Justin P who, um, is asking about this, uh, peculiar sort of Certina, uh, they call it, um, the DS plus multiply your style. Um, and I wasn't familiar with this, uh, James, do you know the kind of the concept of this? |
| James | Uh, only from looking into it. So basically the, the, the case, is outwardly modular. So basically, I think you buy a... You're getting a module that can slide into a number of different cases, different bracelets. I think that it's a neat idea, and I guess the idea is you could swap it at home so that you kind of move the movement and the dial and that sort of thing into another case. I think it's offering a solution for a problem that very few people have. I could see this making the watch theoretically stickier to a buyer, but in my mind, and I'm happy to have this conversation play out on Slack or whatever, in my mind, this isn't gonna be more sticky than simply designing a watch that someone really wants, as it is. I think if this was something that the watch world was begging for, this sort of idea that you have a capsule with the crystal, the dial, the hands, the movement, the rest of it, and then options for multiple different cases, it's kind of like a collection that's one watch. And it comes in this little box where you have straps and bracelets and different cases, and you can swap them out and make different watches all from one. I think that this could appeal to some people, but that it doesn't offer as broad an appeal as maybe they were hoping. And looking at the various combinations, I think that the concept is cool, but none of these hit me as one watch that I would really want. |
| Jason | Yeah, I'm looking at the... I guess it's their Aqua kit. Um, and it's, it's basically just two cases and then a strap and a bracelet option. And, you know, with, with sort of the traditional sort of dive look with the bezel, you know, fine, decent watch, but I'd, I'd just assume take one of their kind of standard DS PH two hundreds or something like that. Um, and then they had, or the action diver. Yeah. The other configuration they have is, it looks like it's probably a fixed bezel. It's just kind of a steel bezel and that, that, kind of doesn't do it for me either. So, yeah, I'm not sure. Like you said, I think I'd rather just go for a watch that they designed nicely from the ground up and just kind of make that my own rather than want to be swapping stuff around like this. |
| James | Yeah. In my mind, you look at something like the Action Diver or the DSPH stuff and that has that like enthusiast concept to it. Yeah. This feels like something meant for a more mass market, like maybe to get somebody out of a smartwatch. Yeah. The concept doesn't necessarily speak to me. You know, a lot of brands have tried this sort of modular thing where you could swap out the case. I would be interested in a brand that really nails the ability to swap the bezel. |
| Unknown | Yeah. |
| James | You know, the Formax, you can pop the bezel off and pick a different one, but they're all dive bezels like Formax. Come on, make a 12-hour bezel. Yeah. Make a, you know, a count-up bezel. Give me a few different options. Do a world-time bezel. Right? That's the kind of world that I'm in. I like that kind of option, but this feels like complexity or like, yeah, like a solution to a pretty specific problem. Yeah. Next up, we've got a suggestion from Matt M about the Grand Seiko SBGE285 Mist Flake. I assume that's the forum title for these. It's a titanium spring drive GMT. Pretty handsome piece. Most Grand Seikos are. I mean, it's Grand Seiko. They're just gorgeous. Look at this thing. It's absolutely fantastic. It's in their high intensity titanium. It's a 41 millimeter watch. It's not quite 14 thick. It's 48 mil lug to lug, so it'll wear... That would put it pretty close to like kind of a thick 2254, right? Yeah. 41 and 48.3. 22 millimeter lugs, but it comes on the bracelet. Let's see, it's a 9R66. So yeah, it's a spring drive with 72 hours of power reserve. It's good to 15 seconds a month. I mean, aside from it being more than I've ever spent on a watch by a multiple of two, it's lovely. Yeah. I mean, Grand Seikos do a great job. Their sports watches don't speak to me. I get a little bit of like the Nomos vibe from them where I'm not sure how I'd pick one versus the other, but they're, you know, a price segment above most of the normal stuff, but the Evo nine stuff is beautiful. I've seen some of it in person. And then the GMT and the titanium there's, there's a lot to really, really like here. But I think if I was buying a grand Seiko, I'd be buying one of the 37 millimeter three handers, um, an SPGW, uh, you know, if I could ever afford to the two five, two and yellow gold, like the classic kind of remake of the 3180. All of that kind of stuff would be really kind of more my zone. And I like Grand Seiko as kind of a maker of like a classy, subtle sort of dressy watch. But for the Grand Seiko nerds, my guess is this is right in the flagship zone. It does everything. It's got the titanium. The dial is incredible. |
| Jason | Something about the Grand Seiko sports watches, I'm almost drawn to several of them, particularly the GMTs, because I feel like they're They're useful. They're, they, they seem quite robust. You know, most of them, I think Tony's, you know, 200 meter water resistant, um, great travel piece. The accuracy is there. The dials are interesting, but there's always just like one or two little things that I kind of squint at and think, eh, it's not quite there. I think like looking at this one, it's like this robust kind of sports watch. And then the dial furniture, particularly the hands, I want like a different style hand on it. Um, you know, these look like kind of, very precision clinical. Yeah. Kind of clinical. I almost want more of a playful, like more of a swords or something like that. I don't know. I don't know why that comes to mind, but I'd like to spend more time with, with grand Seiko. I, you know, I own one, I own an older GMT that I bought in Tokyo years ago and I very seldom wear it, but I would love to try one of their sports watches, especially in the spring drive and like wear it for a reasonable amount of time. Because I think it's the kind of watch that, you can really become attached to just because they do so much right. |
| James | I also believe this is the sort of watch where I bet you if I put it on my wrist for a day, I'd be singing its praises. So I think at 8,500 bucks, they have a lot of competition, but also this is a brand that has proven itself. I mean, that's a lot of money for any watch in my opinion. Like I said, more than I've spent on a watch, but goodness sakes, if you were in the zone for a Grand Seiko, this one would have to be on the list for a sporty Grand Seiko. They make a great watch. Do you find the... We're just stretching this one. It'll be a nice long episode, I guess. Do you find the Spring Drive a plus or a minus? Would you prefer this just to be a 9S? |
| Jason | I think with Grand Seiko, I like the... I love their dedication to it. I love the precision of it. Same thing with their quartz watches. It wouldn't bother me a bit. I almost wouldn't want this watch in an automatic because the Spring Drive is such a calling card for them and it's so impressive and it's just lasted. It's it's proven its worth and its longevity. And it's kind of, you know, along with their great dial work, I think it really is what, you know, Grand Seiko is all about. |
| James | Yeah. I think there was a long time where I thought like, why spring drive? Like when I just have an automatic or a quartz, it feels like we're making the most expensive of the two. Yeah. And then the other thing that used to bug me, and for some reason I can't explain why I've come around on it, is that little power reserve indicator. I always wondered why they couldn't put it in a more balanced position. Yeah. Or even have it, you know, operate on a linear progression from the center line of the dial. Yeah. But now I kind of like it. Yeah. Not really sure why. It has some weirdness to it. You know, it looks kind of cool on their chronograph as well, where the sub dials are like it's unconventional and it kind of works for me. So thank you very much for the heads up on the SBGE285, Matt. This is cool. A good one. And yeah, maybe we should start to kind of follow a little bit more closely. For me, I guess at some point we You know, maybe with the exception of Rolex, like we typically stick to stuff under five grand, right? Unless there's a specific reason not to, but this is probably pretty, pretty top tier watch under 10 grand as far as options and fit and finish goes. So next up, we've got one from David Emerson who says, how about the oft overlooked Forstner? |
| Jason | A-12. Yeah. I like this. I mean, I owned an Accutron astronaut, which is, this is obviously an homage to that. Um, I think Forstner did a nice job with it. I think they've updated the size. It's a little bigger than, than the astronaut was if I'm not mistaken. Um, and it's a pretty faithful representation of it. I think the, um, having owned the astronaut and worn it for a bit, I couldn't get around the, just kind of the pure round case with almost like a, right. hidden crown. It's just, it's a little bit too minimalist, a little too round. But look, if, if, if you like the general vibe of, of the Accutron Astronaut and it's got such a great history to it, um, on the wrists of A-12 SR-71 pilots and, uh, you know, whatever. I mean, this is just a, it's a neat watch and Forstner does a great job with the bands. Totally. I've had a few over the years and I think I'm sure they did a great job with the watch too. |
| James | I think, I think it's a solid one. I was aware of it when it came out. The thing I would say, especially about the off to overlook kind of comment is, I'm not sure that Forstner or especially their watches are overlooked as much as it's really tough to prove yourself in the enthusiast space with an homage. Yeah. This is a watch that Accutron stopped making, so the market of people who even know what it is shrinks every year. |
| Unknown | Yeah. |
| James | So you're making a very specific watch for a very specific set of buyers, and I don't think that it would ever be a watch with a huge mass market success. It's also probably not the goal when you remake a watch like this. It's just to make something that's kind of faithful and fun and captures the vibe of what was a unique watch at the time. And I think within that zone, Forstner's done a lovely job. And like Jason said, I've not come across anything that they've made that isn't made to a very nice standard for the price point. So certainly if you're in the vibe for, yeah, one of these, the Accutron SR71 pilot watches, those Those can be a little bit tough to find, especially in good Nick. And this way you could, you could have a very similar vibe in a 39 millimeter sizing. Uh, yeah, I think they're cool. They look good. Swiss, Swiss movement, a Swiss quartz movement. What's the, what's the complaint about for 475? Definitely not a watch you're going to see on somebody else's wrist as you kick around, right? |
| Jason | Yeah. Right. All right. Let's move on to another pilot's watch, a different sort, um, question from, uh, Piotr, um, SZ apologies if I mispronounced your name. Um, who is asking our opinions about the IWC pilot chrono. I mean, longstanding, great kind of icon. Um, I used to have one, loved it. |
| James | Um, which one did you have? Look at 3717. Yes, that's the one. Yeah. Blacked out with the single date window. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Cool. Those are great. Yeah. Yeah, and I'm also a big fan of the ones with the doppel, like the pre-Habering or the Habering, pre-Habering as a brand sort of watches. Those things are crazy cool. And at least a few years ago, they weren't like an insane amount of money for what you get. Yeah. I would say as a modern option today, I reviewed not that long ago, I guess maybe it was before the pandemic. It must have been before the pandemic, the new Spitfire in 41 mil. That's pretty good. It wears a little big for 41. Like it's a pilot's watch, so it's all dial. It's a little thick. being a IWC movement. But I think that the aesthetic is incredible. It's always just comes down to sizing and strap with these watches. And I think for me, on my wrist, they do a lot better not on the supplied kind of chunky pilot style leather. Put them on something else, something a little thinner, a little lighter, and they suck into the wrist a little bit better and fit nicely. But I'm a big fan, certainly. It always just comes down to size with IWCs. Yeah. Next up we've got one from John in JC who says the new Rolex 224270 Explorer. I just picked it up this week and I think it's a sleeper or at least being dismissed far too easily by commenters as a boring resize to fill a hole in the market. It's a fantastic watch and I couldn't imagine preferring one of the smaller Explorer models. John, I mean we spoke about this watch when it came out, right? And in my mind, I'm on the opposite side of that fence. I think the 36 is perfect and that the 39 was fine. And then I guess they stopped making it and people wanted it back. So they made a 40. Jason, do you have any strong feelings one way or another? I think it's fine. Like Rolex should offer more options and make more watches. Hopefully that means there's more in the market. Certainly doesn't not make sense at 40. I just prefer the 36. |
| Jason | Yeah, I'm with you on that. I think 40 is a perfectly fine size for a watch and a lot of people like that size, but You know, even I, who, who has a big wrist and doesn't mind big watches, I've got a 36 millimeter older Explorer, and I think it just wears really well. So yeah, my preferences for, especially on a, on a field watch or kind of piloty kind of watch like this. When it's kind of minimalist and it's, you know, there's no date and it's just some numerals markers. I feel like, you know, that works better on an almost kind of a smaller dial aesthetically. It just sort of pulls everything in a little bit, but look, it's a handsome watch. It's a certainly a robust watch. Well-proven. |
| James | John, if you love it, it's a good thing they made it in 40. I think this is clear evidence that not everything that, you know, the way that we all prefer a watch in one spec, but not another, there's a reason that, you know, there's more SKUs out there, right? So I'm thrilled to hear that you like it. Yeah. Yeah. And then let's wrap this up with the last one from Kyle C in DC. Whatever happened to James's SPB 143? It's in the watch box. I wear it maybe once or twice a month, maybe a little bit less than that. I've considered selling it. I like it a lot. But I have a lot of dive watches and oftentimes I would either lean towards the Pelagos or the Doxa, depending on, and it's kind of weirdly, it kind of sits in the middle of those and that it's a vintage effect, but it's kind of the same color range as the Tudor. But then I put it on and I go, nah, I like this too much. And you know, they only hold their value so well. So it's not like there's a huge upside. I enjoy the watch. I think it's great. I'll definitely get some use out of it. Dock jumping this summer, the lume is better on that than on the Pelagos in many ways. So yeah, I love the watch. It's still a great one. And if you're on the fence, there's only more versions available new and in secondhand than there were when I wrote all those stories a few years back. So a solid one for sure. And I think this was successful. This was fun. We got to talk about a bunch of stuff that we don't normally do. It's a little bit of a long episode. We're coming up on a hard out in a few minutes for me. But thank you so much for everybody who put theirs in. If we didn't get to yours, my apologies. I've saved a bunch of them for future like larger show topics or that sort of thing, but maybe we'll do another one of these in the future. So be sure to, uh, keep an eye on the slack. And if you want to get into that conversation, of course, uh, you can do so by subscribing at, uh, our sub stack, uh, the great NATO.com has more details. Jason, you want to jump into some final notes? |
| Jason | Sure. Yeah. Um, mine this week comes from a suggestion via a listener named Christopher who sent a link over to BBC sounds. There's a kind of some book excerpts. Uh, from the British watchmaker, Rebecca Struthers. Um, and I was kind of vaguely aware that, that she had written a book because there was the potential that she was going to be in Glasgow introducing her book when I was over there, but the timing didn't work out, but, uh, I've been very keen to, to read her book. And so it was kind of fun to, to hear some excerpts of it read on BBC sounds. That's their kind of app where you can get podcasts and radio shows and things. Um, and it's called hands of time and. There it's about five excerpts of about 15 minutes each, uh, covering different kind of eras in timekeeping going way, way back, uh, right up until the 20th century. Um, and actually even into the 21st century and kind of some of Rebecca's take on her own background in, in watchmaking and how she came to it and kind of some of her philosophies around timekeeping. So, um, really a nice listen, pretty short, you know, kind of, uh, like I said, five episodes of 15 minutes each, so you'll can listen to it on a walk or on a commute or something like that. So, um, yeah, check it out. Thanks. Uh, thanks to Christopher for sending over that link, man. |
| James | That sounds really, really good. |
| Unknown | Yeah. |
| James | I definitely want to check that out. That might be something to listen to on, uh, on the drive up for the cottage. We've been working our way through. What was the, the Lionel crab? |
| Jason | Oh yeah. Ministry of secrets. |
| James | Thank you. Sorry. Ministry of secrets. We were working our way through that. Um, which is really nice. And even my, my oldest daughter was starting to listen to it a little bit as we were driving and ask some questions. It's really great. I've been enjoying that so I'll add this to the list as well. Maybe we can stream it on the drive up this Saturday Yeah, what have you got this week? So yeah mine this week is actually just a reminder now that I've actually got it in hand We talked about it when it first launched. I think It's gonna be 10 plus episodes, which is Robert Spangl's book Afghan style Mine arrived yesterday. I flipped through it a little bit today, and it's just absolutely gorgeous So if you're looking for a new coffee table book with a bunch of images like nothing I've seen before. Um, it's beautiful. The colors are incredible. Robert's eye is impeccable. It's really nicely laid out. Um, just a really beautiful presentation and one that I'm, I'm like super thrilled to finally have in hand. So, uh, I would say it's just a simple reminder as we talked about it when the book was first kind of announced when pre-orders first went up, but it's probably available at your local bookstore or at least available on order. Or you can of course, uh, hit the show notes for a link to buy it directly from Robert. And that's his book, Afghan Style. It's one of my things I plan to maybe even haul it up to the cottage and sit on a dock and flip through it this weekend. |
| Jason | Yeah, I got mine last week as well. And it's a thing of beauty. I mean, not only the photos, but the entire construction of the book. Yeah, the whole presentation. You can tell some real thought and time was put into that. So congrats to Robert on that. All right. Well, that wraps up a pretty long but fun episode. We hope you enjoyed it. And as always, thanks so much for listening. If you want to subscribe to The Show Notes, get into the comments for each episode, or consider supporting the show directly, and maybe even grab a new TGN signed NATO, please visit TheGreyNATO.com. Music throughout is Siesta by Jazzar via the Free Music Archive. |
| James | And we leave you with this quote from Francis Bacon who said, a prudent question is one half of wisdom. |