The Grey NATO – 235 – Collection Inspection Vol. 11 (Vintage Edition)
Published on Thu, 20 Apr 2023 06:00:00 -0400
Synopsis
This is an episode of The Graynado podcast featuring James discussing his vintage watch, an old Buren wrist watch. The hosts also discuss Jason's vintage watch from Marathon, a company located in Canada. They explore the unique features and styling of these timepieces, touching on aspects like the Buren's stylized lettering and the Marathon's rugged design for outdoor enthusiasts. Details surrounding watch history, availability, and accessory products are also covered.
Links
Transcript
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| Unknown | Hello and welcome to another episode of The Graynado, a loose discussion of travel, adventure, diving, driving, gear, and most certainly watches. This is episode 235 and it's proudly brought to you by our ever-growing TGN supporter crew. We thank you all so much for your continued support. And if you'd like to support the show, please visit thegraynado.com for more details. James, how are we doing on this, uh, summary? I guess we're recording on a Friday this week, but, uh, |
| James | Not too bad, man. Can you hear my tan through the microphone? It's been a nice sunny week. It's probably closer to a burn. |
| Unknown | Yeah. Somebody posted a, somebody posted a photo here on social media and said, uh, said it had like a ruler next to the ground. And it said, look, we've got almost gotten a foot of sunshine. So used to measuring snow here, but, uh, it's, it's great. |
| James | Yeah, no, it's been a great week. Super nice to basically just try and be outside as much as possible. Yeah. Due to your trip to Scotland coming up, we're recording a second one this week, so we don't really have like a ton more that we did. I would say the only noteworthy thing that I did this week I actually can't talk about yet. It's for an embargoed watch release that's coming up later this month. But what are you up to? I assume you're still kind of packing and doing logistics, you know, receiving RSVPs for the hangout at Finiston, that sort of thing. |
| Unknown | Yeah, it's, it feels like a broken record here and I'm kind of, it's just like this steady countdown to the trip. We'll be leaving, uh, I guess a week from today, um, finally. And, and yeah, just looking forward to it. And it's kind of finally in that mode of, of starting to pack and figure out what, what to take and planning multiple layers and rain gear and, you know, obviously a couple of watches and hiking boots and that sort of thing. But, uh, yeah. Mm hmm. That's about it. And then just enjoying the weather. So the old Land Rover, the series three has a two part doors. Um, the top comes off, it just lifts out. And so I took those off yesterday and I'm really inching closer to, to going, um, full topless with, with that one, uh, the summer and just taking the roof off. I, I've toyed with the idea for years and it would actually fit in the garage. Finally, if I took the roof off and just skipped a canvas roof entirely. So then my only issue is where to store the roof, but I think I could turn it into like a little garden shed in the backyard. |
| James | Yeah, I mean that that's the like we talked about this. I think on on the last episode, the one all about our cars and stuff that or maybe it was on a Q and a recently. I'm not sure, but I'd love to get have a spot to put the top for the jeep. Yeah, I forgot the panels on the jeep. I forgot them off and parked them under a tree and now I have some cleaning in the interior to do from birds. Oh geez, what are you going to do? I but I went for a nice drive yesterday up up for to check out this watch. I can't quite talk about yet. And just it's so nice having that the sun and the wind and the noise and the rest of it. Oh, yeah. As you're driving along. And I definitely think I need to, you know, either figure out a way to occasionally take the top off easily, like whether that's, you know, setting it aside or parking, you know, putting it in the front of the driveway or something, which is kind of trashy, but do what you got to do and and do the full convertible. Because I walk in my kids to school. I walk right by a very similar model Jeep, but a black one. Yeah, they've got the top down. And just just parked and good. And I was like, man, I miss that. Yeah, we'll see. |
| Unknown | Yes. Maybe when they get back from our trip and we're officially in warm weather because there's the S word is forecast for this weekend, which is absolutely absurd to me. But as in snow. Yeah, I heard that. Yeah, it's brutal. Yeah. But I'll choose to ignore that. |
| James | Hopefully that doesn't come to be. |
| Unknown | Yeah. But we have a fun episode lined up. We're kind of reaching back to an old sort of series of ours. But before we jump into collection inspection, what are you wearing today? |
| James | Yeah, for whatever reason, especially with the better weather and kind of getting outside and walks and a little bit of exercise and that kind of thing, I've been wearing the Apple Watch, the Apple Watch Ultra, and just really enjoying it. I set it up to run it on my right wrist. Oh, yeah. So if I'm reviewing a watch or, you know, shooting wrist shots and stuff, I don't have to worry about taking it on and off. Yeah. It took a day for that to feel normal. And now it's kind of natural and the U. I. Is simple enough that I can do with my left hand, just like even if I'm walking around and that sort of thing. But the functionality, especially as I've talked about, like in the past where you have the SIM card or the SIM or whatever in this. So I can just go for a walk in the park and take that in my earphones. And if something actually comes up for work or family or whatever, I could still take a phone call, but I don't have my phone on me. I really like that. Yeah, I do too. Yeah, that's cool. And it can it can still do pocket cast. So if I want to listen to a podcast, I don't have to forget about that. It's really nice. It kind of gives me a reminder like to, you know, jump on the wrong machine for a bit or go for a walk or, or this sort of thing. And it's just a kind of a nice blending of like functionality and, and tech that kind of makes my workday a little bit easier. Yeah. Not, not exactly like the world's most exciting. We've talked about this watch quite a bit when it came out and you had one for a while and my loan, I think I've got this for a few more weeks yet. And I'm hoping to maybe extend that and take it diving. |
| Unknown | Nice. Yeah. You know, it's funny you mentioned switching wrists and I remember having that and the kind of the novelty of being able to flip it and put the crown on the other side and flip the display. And, um, it, it makes me think of, of wearing watches on, on your dominant wrist or whichever wrist you normally do. And I've actually discovered that I'm sort of ambidextrous when it comes to a watch, because, you know, growing up, I always wore it on my right wrist. I'm left-handed and that seems like the natural way to wear it. And then, And then before we went to French Polynesia, I started, I went back to my left wrist because I knew I'd be wearing a dive computer on my right wrist for most of that week. And I haven't gone back now to the right wrist. So, and it doesn't bother me. You know, I, I would have thought there would have been some sort of a weird mental disconnect, but I seem to be able to, I seem to be able to, I seem to be able to, I seem to be able to, I seem to be able to, I seem to be able to, I seem to be able to, I seem to be able to, I seem to be able to, I seem to be able to, I seem to be able to, I seem to be able to, I seem to be able to, I seem to be able to, I seem to be able to, I seem to be able to, I seem to be able to, kind of wear, wear on either wrist. It's, it's a, it's a strange phenomenon and I know it's only relevant or interesting to, to probably a few of us listeners and us. |
| James | But yeah, I, I, I definitely grew up wearing like when I first got like a Timex digital or whatever, I put it on my right wrist cause I was right handed. I didn't really think of it as one way or another. And then I remember somebody saying like, Oh, you wear it on your other one. Maybe, maybe the rationale is like you're less prone to hit it against stuff because you're not using that side more commonly. |
| Unknown | That was, I thought. |
| James | Yeah, yeah, yeah, I don't I guess I don't know that for certain that might have been something I conflated on my own, but if I guess if you thought the same thing, then maybe that is the conventional wisdom. I really don't mind one being on one side or the other, and I like the smart watch on the right wrist, because again, if I decide a double wrist and in my mind like I've talked about double resting before and I think where I've landed on it is it's kind of like sweat pants. If you're at home, it's all right. but if I'm like going out, I'm not going to wear two watches. I haven't gotten to that point yet and bless you. If that's your zone, it just doesn't hit me that well. Yeah, but as far as on the right wrist, it's comfortable. I haven't been banging it on stuff. I do find I don't know if you found this, but obviously I guess one of the benefits of the smart watch is the sleep tracking stuff. I would say that if you're me, especially on the right wrist, I can't sleep with this on. It's too big. Oh, interesting. It's too big. It sits up a little bit too high. You know, I like to have an arm under a pillow. and it definitely kind of catches or you start like you can tell that you hit a button. So it's waking up or rotating the button or whatever on the screen and the rest of it. So I don't wear it at night, whereas like my experience with the Phoenix stuff or even the descent mark two that I have, the smaller one is that because of the lightness and it's even light, those are even lighter on risk than the titanium of the Apple watch. It's just not that difficult to sleep with, and I have become really a fan of sleeping with a watch on. Yeah, I've been enjoying it on my right wrist. It doesn't feel awkward or problematic. I should probably try wearing other watches on that wrist as well. Yeah. Give it a spin. Yeah. Oh, and then I was curious. The other thing that came to my mind, you wear your dive computer on your right wrist. Is that because your BCD, flater and controls are left hand? |
| Unknown | Partially that, but also because for so many years I was wearing my watches on my left wrist. Right. And so then it just felt natural that the empty wrist should get the dive computer. But yeah, when you're kind of inflating, deflating, and you want to check your depth, it's nice to be able to look at your right wrist. |
| James | Yeah, I always found it that I would have to wear mine on my right wrist for that reason. So that if I was doing an open water sort of scenario safety stop, and I wanted to kind of lock in on my buoyancy, as you're dealing with coming up, I would always kind of be watching the time with one wrist and have my button on the vent with the other. Right, right. And I guess that depends on how the vents are arranged on your BCDs, I suppose. But the other thing that always bummed me out, and it's funny to think about it because it wouldn't happen with the descent, just because of the size of it, but my normal dive computer is one of those Sunto Zoops. Yes, yeah. And they're like almost a literal hockey puck in terms of size. Right, right. Big strap and even on the dry suit, I was always bummed because I don't know about you and this is so specific that I might cut it from the show, but if you're doing a beach dive or whatever, right, like you might do in Vancouver or on a great lake, I would set my gear up in the sand, right, on the side and then I would dip down as low as I could get and get my left shoulder, which is for whatever reason, this is like my... We're talking about dominant sides, it's kind of like my carrying shoulder. I prefer on my left, it keeps my right hand free to maneuver. Yeah. And I think if I was gonna trip with all my gear, the dry suit, the weight, I clip my fins to my BC, so there's a lot of stuff, and if I tripped, I would rather have my right hand to catch myself. Yeah. So I think that that's the thought, but then when you try and actually shoulder the BC, the watch inevitably gets tangled up and oh every time because it's so big yeah and you look like a complete nimby like you've never done it before, but there's like and then I you know the last time I suited up for everything. I remember that being like one of the first things that hit me was the the mark the descent yeah mark two that I have is so much smaller, so besides of a normal watch that when I went to throw my wrist through the thing, I didn't notice it or the Aqualand. I had them both on my right wrist together. Oh yeah, yeah. And I just, I was able... So think about that. In this world, I'm saying the Aqualand's small. I mean, the Zeep is quite a large computer to begin with. Great screen, great computer, highly recommend, has never let me down. But yeah, I don't know why that... When you said that it was on your right wrist, I was like, oh, I wonder if I'm the only person who has trouble getting the arm. |
| Unknown | Well, I sort of solved that with with BC and with backpack. Um, by now I, I entered, and this is, we're really going down a rabbit hole here, um, during risk check, but I, I actually, I, I shoulder the left as you do, um, get my, my left arm through. And then when I go to put my right arm through, I lead with my elbow. So I open up that strap as wide as I can. And then I lead, I lead with my elbow and then the wrist sort of follows through and then I don't have that tangling. If you try to go in with the wrist and the hand first, that's when I always would get messed up. But. |
| James | Yeah, that's probably smart. I mean, and half the time I've forgotten. This is where I am a NIMBY. I've forgotten to extend the the shoulder strap. Yeah, and like I for those curious, I use a Z Eagle stiletto. This is not a confining sort of bc yeah bcd it's it's a really forgiving there's lots of room it's fairly open it's integrated white pockets and and otherwise it's kind of a wing and i'm very happy with it but i always remember just being like why does i need to find a new way of doing this so we'll try elbows first next time all right well before we get to the main topic i suppose i should give you a couple minutes to do your wrist check now that i've burned a bunch talking about dive computers what have you got on risk today so yeah i'm |
| Unknown | I've been sort of test driving a number of watches, um, with the, with the look ahead to Scotland and trying to figure out what, what watch kind of goes well with that trip. And one of those that I'm wearing now is, uh, my white dial Bramont MB two. Uh, it's a watch I haven't worn in quite a while, but you know, I put it on and it's, it's, it's just a sharp watch. You know, there's some watches that just have this like visual sort of kick to them. And this one's got so much going on with the neural, um, crowns and I've got the orange barrel and then that white dial just pops and it's kind of that really matte gray to the steel case. It's a great watch. It's definitely a contender for this trip. I've got a few other ideas. You know, I think we talked last episode or the episode before about kind of going with sort of anglophile watches, you know, CWC, Bremont, Vertex, whatever. I don't know if that's the good approach or just, you know, go a completely different direction. We'll see. I'll, I'll, I'll land on something and then I'll, I'll be able to talk about it after the fact. So, but that's what I'm wearing today. Despite the fact that we're, we're going to be talking about two totally different watches now. |
| James | Yeah, exactly. I mean, look, the MB2s are solid. I love a white dial. Of course, that was always a watch that I was very interested in, you know, during my continued kind of appreciation for Bremont and that sort of thing. Do you, do you think they'll ever do the MB2 in a smaller case? And I do wonder, because I haven't asked and we should ask and then I wouldn't have to wonder, but I do wonder how popular the 40 millimeter stuff is versus the 43, which was, you know, ancestrally for that brand, their core size was 43. |
| Unknown | Yeah. I wonder if they will do smaller. I'm trying to picture that watch kind of shrunk down a little bit. I mean, it certainly worked for the supermarine. And how big is the Argonaut? Is that 40? Argonaut is 42. Okay. So that's also a twin crown. So I wonder if they're That's kind of the smallest they'll go with that sort of configuration. But, you know, never say never. |
| James | Who knows? Yeah. Just a really cool watch. Obviously, they did a white version of the MB3, the GMT, which also is a kind of fun colorway and version for that watch. But yeah. Yeah. I mean, today's main topic is our 11th collection inspection. I'll admit, I'm very happy that I went back at some point in the past and made a Google Keep note of all the watches. that I've done before. And this one, I wasn't really sure what to go with. And if I'm honest, I took inspiration from your pick. Oh yeah. It was between the watch that I did pick and a Seiko Monster. So I think I'll save the Monster for a future installment of the collection inspection. But do you want to kick it off or should I go first? |
| Unknown | Why don't you go first? We both have, like you said, they're interesting watches with interesting complications. Yeah. |
| James | So weirdly, we both picked vintage watches. Yeah. And we both picked watches that have kind of strange chronographs or uncommon chronograph execution. So mine is my vintage Buren Minstop. So this is a watch that I've definitely talked about on the show several times before. I wrote an article about it for Hodinkee some time ago, which of course I'll put in the show notes. It's a late 60s gold plaque Minstop with a gold dial. Wow, wild. aesthetically i just absolutely again it's not a solid gold dial or whatever it's a gold tone dial but aesthetically this is one of my most favorite watches it's also in incredible condition like almost brand new condition the brushing on the case is still present it's inside the the dial has not aged there's no patina it's just in really really good shape And this is one that I got way back from our buddy Jordan at Retro Watch Guy. Oh, nice. On Instagram, we've talked about Jordan before. Really, really good dude. Just basically deals in interesting, uncommon, retro sort of watches right up until... I think he's got some stuff on there that's more like late 80s, 90s now. Yeah. It says something about how old we're getting, but that's okay. I don't actually remember the conversation that I had that led to this. I think that he had a gold Walkman chronograph Do you know what I mean? Yes, I do. Yes. With all the color on the dial. |
| Unknown | Yeah. Another cool one. Yeah. |
| James | Yeah. Really cool. And also a gold dial. I like a gold watch with a gold dial. Really fun. But he had the gold Walkman. I think by the time I wrote him, it had sold. And I said, oh, okay, that's cool. And he said, well, I've got other chronographs. I said, it was more about the gold than it was the chronograph for me. Yeah. And he said, all right, I'll keep an eye out for you. And then I remember he dropped me a line and he said, I've got this beer and men stuff. And I said, like, I don't even, I can't picture even what that is, but he sent me a photo. It's this really fun looking cushion case with like a very bubbly sort of 60s dial execution. You know, they call them parking timers because it has this kind of semi circle, half circle aperture at the top, very large, much larger than say a date that basically has a 60 minute wheel that's always running. Oh, it's always run. |
| Unknown | Okay. And then it's a flyback, right? You reset it, but otherwise it just runs, huh? Okay. |
| James | Exactly. Yeah. So the watch uses a German movement, a 17 jewel German movement. It's called a Duro 471-4. But basically, yeah, it's normal time and hours, minutes, seconds. And then there's an additional pusher at about 2 o'clock just above the standard crown. And all you do is when you park your car conceivably in the 60s or you start a phone call or in my case, if I put something in and if I put something in the oven, that's gonna be chicken nuggets or something for the girls with 18 minutes, I'll press that button and you just walk away and all the button does is it zeros the counter. Sure. Yeah, you can measure anything up to 60 minutes. I find it very handy for stuff like phone calls for pizzas or if I tell the girls that they've got 10 more minutes until whatever, like it's just kind of a useful complication because with a chronograph you're doing I guess if your chronograph is zeroed, you'd just be pressing one and you start counting, so it's the same, but then you're resetting it. This, I kind of just... I'll look down and go, oh, I'm at 16 minutes, okay, and then you just move on, like you're not resetting it or trying to maintain it at a certain time or whatever, and it's just kind of a weird execution of a very, like, helpful functionality of, like, removing any of the sort of stopwatch-y elements of a chronograph, as weird as that sounds. Uh, cause this, you know, just, just gives you the minutes. |
| Unknown | Yeah, exactly. You're, you're actually seeing the elapsed time. You're not watching a hand pointing to a tiny little number. This is amazing. And it's, it's this huge window. I'm looking at your wrist shot from the Houdinki article and I mean, a, it's a, it's a beautiful watch, but B, I mean that, that legibility, that functionality, I don't think I've seen something that like perfectly legible in, in a chronograph. I mean, I'm surprised this didn't find its way into a lot of other sort of applications even now. |
| James | Yeah. So it kind of hits me in the same ways like jump hours or retro grades. Like it's an animation, but in this case it's not fast enough to be visually interesting, but it is so useful. And I think that it adds an element to this watch that if it didn't have this feature, if it was the same watch just with a time only, I don't know that it would have had the same sort of appeal for me. This has this weirdness to it that I really like. |
| Unknown | Yeah. |
| James | And in the story that I had originally written for Houdinki, I said, like, when it comes to me, my interest in vintage watches really comes down to one of two factors. Typically, I can't afford both, but it would either be the idea of, like, the beloved history, so a watch with an incredible history, like a vintage Submariner, a vintage dive watch of any type. Some of those are affordable, some of them aren't, but typically the better and cooler the history, the more expensive the watch, with the possible exception being something like a Doxysub. Right, right. Right. Or the other thing that vintage watches do, and this is where I find dress, like vintage dress watches or dressier watches like this Burin, is that they allow me to recapture a time that I wasn't part of. Right, right. Like driving a vintage car, using something that you were given by your grandparents, whether it's, you know, I've got old lighters and pocket knives and stuff like that. Yeah. I think like this one really hits that second thing where it's a little bit Mad Men in terms of its overall kind of aesthetic, but then in the gold and then sometime after I got it, Jordan again at retro watch guy, he sent me the matching bracelet. Oh, so it didn't come on this bracelet that's in the photos and like I liked the watch and then I got the bracelet. I've been looking at a lot of the watches in my collection thinking like, oh, maybe it's time to sell like five ten of these watches. Yeah, even if I only wore this thing once or twice a year, I don't think I could get rid of it. Oh, there's just not enough upside for what for what it is. Yeah, And then not too long ago, I wore it to a wedding, a family wedding. This would have been, I guess, the better part of two years ago at this point. So two years ago, I wore it to a family wedding and it stopped. I had wound it, and the hand stopped, and I took it off my wrist and wound it again, and it only wound like half turn and locked up. And I thought, I broke it. What do you know? All right. Yeah. And I sent it to Roldorf, of course. It went in with a handful of other watches, some of which we talked about on a recent episode with Jason on the show. and I sent it into him and I remember he wrote me back. This is before just before the fire, but he wrote me. He said, you know what that Buren is in lovely condition. I said, yeah, it's cool like the sticker is still on the case back and not like a protective sticker, but like one that might have been for the model might have been the price tag. I have no idea. Maybe it was second hand put on years later. It's just old. Sure. And he said, but it was like bone dry. Oh. So he said he took it apart and lubricated it, put it back together, gave it a quick service, and it's been running great. I've worn it a couple of times since it came back. It's the kind of watch where like... I would call it in my world, it's like a date night watch, going out with my wife. Yeah. It's a spot that I really like and it always... They're called The Swan or Le Swan in Toronto here that we enjoy. They do steak frites really well. And for whatever reason, the vibe of this sort of French bistro modified diner sort of vibe always makes me want to wear like a gold watch. So it's either this or one of the Bolivos or something like that. But this one is just, it's a peach. I like it a lot. |
| Unknown | Oh, it's yeah. It's amazing. A few things strike me. I'm just staring at this, uh, this beautiful wrist shot and I'm, I noticed the, the tone of the gold is a very warm, I mean, it's, it's a warm tone of, of gold for one thing. And then the case appears to have this sort of what I would say vertical brushing like from 12 to six kind of in that direction. But then the, the dial kind of goes the opposite direction with the brushing and it's that lighter sort of gold and it's, it's, it's the warmth to it just really strikes me. And I was going to ask you about the bracelet. Was the bracelet actually a beer and bracelet like intended for this watch specifically or? |
| James | No, not that I'm aware of. No. Cause it's a great match. It's a really, it's a perfect match. It looks really good, but you can tell that it's one of those ones that, um, it like like speed l does this as well, where the end link has a size, but then it has little wings. Oh yeah, you know, like I think the watch itself has eighteen millimeter lugs. It's oh for those curious why I didn't get to this faster thirty seven point five millimeters wide, nice and thin, easy to wear all that sort of stuff. Really, I think it's like under forty five or right around forty five millimeters lug to lug, so it suits the size of my wrist really nicely. Yeah, but it's eighteen millimeter lugs. I think the bracelet is actually sixteen, And then again, it has these two little spring mounted little wings that can fill the distance. Yeah, but that doesn't bother me. It feels like it's of the correct era, like the bracelet looks and the biggest thing in this is what, you know, credit to Jordan into what you just said with the color of the case is the color of the case is nicely matched by the bracelet, sometimes depending on gold tone versus gold plated versus gold plaque. You don't really get a nice color match and the bracelets also fully brushed, which suits the watch where the only kind of polished element then is the sort of ring that the crystal sits with. Yeah. You wouldn't call it a chapter ring and it's not exactly a Rio, it's on the outside of the crystal. It's almost like where a bezel would be if the watch had a bezel itself. So I guess you could call it a sort of bezel applique. The last thing, if we're on the differences in the finishing and that sort of thing is I'm a huge sucker, definitely on record for just adoring black dial furniture on watches. Series one Patek 5270s, like I love... Oh, that incredible 1526 that Briggs Cunningham had made. So it's a white dial with black markers. I like the black accents on an Explorer II, all of that kind of stuff speaks to me. And in this case, it's not that the dial furniture is black, but anywhere where there would be loom on these sort of vintage applied markers is black, which I really think is... If you imagine this watch or if you do a Photoshop, I guess, but if you imagine this watch with loom in those, One, the loom would be useless, such a tiny little strip of loom, but two, it would totally throw it off. It's gold and black, and that's what you get in this. And then the text on the minute counter for the chronograph is white, and I think that gives it this focus to that one. It brings a certain focus to that specific function. Yeah. Yeah, I really like the way it's executed. It's definitely not like an original crown, or if it is the gold tone has worn off. You can see in the photos the crown is very much like closer to steel than gold, but none of that really bothers me either. There's something about crowns kind of like wheels on a car. Sometimes they're not the same. They're not necessarily the original. It doesn't really throw me off too much, but yeah, this is among my favorite vintage watches. You know, I'm a dilettante when it comes to the vintage watch thing simply because the stuff that I really like, especially like vintage dress watches, is just they're all at a price I'll never get to. Yeah. Um, but this, this captures a lot of what I like about it and you get the full gold. I, you know, if you're going to wear a gold watch, a gold bracelet, it's really a fun way to do it. And this watch does a bit of function and a lot of fun all in one kind of really beautiful package. |
| Unknown | You mentioned this watch conjuring a certain era, um, that, that, you know, you, you weren't alive during and, and I am struck by the specificity of this watch. And I always think back, like, And not only how was it marketed, because I can, I can, I can imagine an old ad for this, you know, park, you know, time, your parking meter or whatever, but sure. Yeah. I love to hypothesize about who, who the person was or what person walked into the retailer. And maybe this one was new old stock and no one ever bought this specific one, but you know, like what, what was that person thinking when he bought this watch, um, that he was going to use this for and, and what, what an interesting person that would be that he would choose this watch over everything else that was available at that time. Yeah. Yeah. And, and I love the, um, the, the, the typeface that's used for those, those big numerals in the, in the rotating display. It reminds me of like an old, like Oldsmobile, you know, instrument panel or dashboard. |
| James | Or the, you know, the Mustang one that people have kind of commonly used. Autodromo's made a good, good use of that. It's not the same, but it has similar, it's kind of these tall, very clear, legible. Numerals that have a bit of a flare to them. I agree. Yeah, it is interesting to think who would have bought this or or in the era What else how would you dress for this watch necessarily? Maybe people just didn't think about it like that yeah, and I think this watch would tone down on a black leather strap and in a different sort of way and you could kind of see the Maybe not like like an overly serious, you know, NASA engineer type 60s look Uh-huh. But also something probably not like a Don Draper sort of vibe either, but maybe one of the other guys in the office, guys with a little bit more of a sense of humor maybe. |
| Unknown | Right. I love the little details too on the dial that the Buran logo, I don't know that I was familiar with whatever that symbol is above the word Buran and then the Minstop, the S is very stylized. It's a very sort of 60s looking display. And then I don't think I've ever seen a watch with a crown at that position. At first I thought because the photo was turned, I was looking at it funny, The crown is positioned at, what would you even say? Three, between three and four. It's a weird position. 320. |
| Unknown | Yeah. Yeah. |
| James | Yeah. It's a, it's not, it's definitely not equally set between three and four. Sometimes you go like, oh, well maybe it was just a question of the movement alignment. The crown is slightly recessed, so they did design the case for the crown position being there. Yeah. Yeah. I don't, this is like what I like about watches, right? Is they can, they can still be so much fun. And then this like functionality is actually pretty useful. Yeah. And if you think about in a time where chronographs might have been significantly more expensive or not dressed like maybe not the right look for someone who would want this look, you know what I mean? Like they might be two different zones. Yeah. And then to have this when you couldn't have your phone tell you when your parking was going to run out or, or, you know, we see lots of sixties chronographs that have little markings on the dial for how long your phone call is like for a pay phone. |
| Unknown | Yeah. |
| James | Like this does kind of speak to a different time. And I think it must have been like a cool little hack to have this functionality, this, this complication on your wrist, uh, going about your business in, you know, 1968 or whatever. Right. |
| Unknown | This is, yeah, this is stunning. And I love the photos in your, in your article that they have a warmth to them that sort of matches the gold or reminds me of, you know, some kind of a smoky cocktail bar somewhere, you know, that sort of warm, dim light. I mean, it's, yeah, it's a cool watch. It's very cool. |
| James | Yeah, it's a fun one. I hope people dig it. You know, I don't know that we've done a lot of vintage watches. My Silvana has been on collection inspection in the past, and I'm sure you've definitely done a vintage Seiko recently and some other stuff like that. But this is one that I like. It's a little bit outside the TGN mold, judging by the stuff we see in the Risk Check channel on Slack every day. Uh, I'm starting to think there isn't necessarily a mold for the watches that TGN, you know, listeners and the audience kind of enjoy. The variety is incredible. And I think you pop up stuff like this, especially in the vintage watches channel. And, and, you know, you see some really, really cool stuff. |
| Unknown | Yeah. |
| James | Yeah. Speaking of. |
| Unknown | Yeah. Speaking of. What have you got? Yeah. So today I pulled out kind of one of my favorites and also a vintage piece that, that I don't wear a whole lot, probably like you with, with the Burin, but, but when I do, it's, I'm just like captivated by it and it's, uh, it's, an old Aquastar Benthos 500. I believe it's probably from around 1970. It's one of the first generation of the Benthos. They made a kind of a later version and then they came out even with a Benthos 2, which had a higher water resistance rating in the early seventies. But this is, this is, I would consider this a true icon of, of kind of dive watches to, you know, that term is overused, but I think when you kind of look at the pantheon of, of great dive watches, this one has to be, has to be right up there. just you know some specs for it it's it's a big watch i mean this thing for its time with 500 meters of water resistance would have been pretty substantial back then and still is and and this is uh so it's a 43 millimeter case kind of across the diameter um lug to lug it's it's a reasonable 46 so you know it's uh it's i'm not sure what you'd call this case style like a tonneau or barrel shape um case so it's very versatile wears very well it's thick it's 16 millimeters high it's an automatic And it has the crown is, you know, speaking of strange crown positions, the crown is at two o'clock and then it has a single push piece down at, at four o'clock. And the reason for that is this is a mono pusher flyback, uh, 60 minute chronograph. And unlike your Buren, the central hand, which is bright orange, it's made for, for timing, a one hour dive, um, is not constantly running. Um, it actually is fixed at 12 until you press the button. And which, at which time it starts, it's, it's a slow runner, I guess, if you want to kind of use the, the Breitling parlance from, from their slow running chronograph. Um, and, and it just, it times an entire hour with that central orange hand. And if you press the button again, it will fly back to 12 and start over again. Once it reaches 60 minutes, it just stops. And then of course it has a rotating. 60 minute bezel, which is still to this day. It's one of the best bezels. It's a 60 clicker, huge kind of grip surface on the sides, very legible, blocky numerals, white on black. And then the dial is just these kind of wide blocky baton hands and big blocky markers as well with a lot of loom. Yeah, it's a fantastic piece. It's a watch that I wanted for a long time. It's a watch that I long admired and kind of saw as sort of a emblem of, of that era's kind of more serious divers along the lines of what, you know, like a doxa or something. It wasn't just something a casual guy would walk into a jeweler and pick this up. He would probably want it for a very specific purpose. And, and for that reason, I used it in my, my, my novel depth charge. It was actually the watch worn by, uh, by my protagonist Tusker. And it was, it was a hand-me-down from his father. And along those lines, uh, our friend Rick Mirai, who, who now is the, uh, the keeper of the Aqua star legacy by owning the brand. Now, uh, he actually sent this to me as a, as a gift when I was finishing up a depth charge. So it's a, it's a very meaningful watch to me. And because it ties to the book and was a nice gift from Rick, uh, you know, it's one that I won't let go. And I just, I really care for. That's awesome. Yeah. And when I got it. It was in good shape mechanically. It's always run very well, kept a good time. Chronograph function works great. But as we've discussed, I like wearing a watch at night like you do. And I like it for the simple reason that, you know, if I wake up in the wee hours or, you know, winter nights are long and I want to kind of know what time it is. I just like to open an eye and glance and vintage watches just don't work in that regard. So I brought it to, um, a trusted watchmaker here in town and a guy who's done some work on, on my tutor sub. many years ago with some kind of crusty loom. And I asked him to just dab some color matched luminescent paint on the hands, just enough to, to make it catch some light and glow a little bit. And sure enough. And so now it's a, it's a little more useful. I hate to say, I won't be able to, to take this one diving. I'd love to, you know, I'm a fan of getting old watches kind of up to snuff and getting them wet. But this one, I don't think is going to even be able to approach that because I did have the case back off and It's, it's kind of odd, but there's sort of an inner ring kind of around where the movements held and where the pusher goes through for the chronograph. And it's, it's bent. It's almost like kinked. And I don't think it'll hold a gasket, you know, with, with a good enough seal that it'll, it'll ever, um, truly be able to be made watertight, but that's okay. It's, uh, I'm sure it had its day, you know, I mean, some, something put that dent there and, and for sure. Yeah. Kind of conjecture about the stories that, that led to that. But, uh, |
| James | Yeah, I mean, it definitely looks like it's led a good life and maybe just deserves like a proper stewardship, which it sounds like you're giving it at this point, but... Yeah, it's great. |
| Unknown | And I think what's neat about this watch is, you know, despite its heft and its size, as I said, it wears really well on a variety of straps. I mean, I've had it on... I was just about to ask what you prefer to wear it on. I've had it on a bun strap for a very long time and I like vintage dive watches on a, on a, on leather straps. And I think this works really well on like a well-aged, um, kind of grainy, uh, leather strap and, and it worked fine on a bund works okay on a, on a NATO. I've had it on a Tropic rubber, which, which predictably looks, looks good. It's probably what it came on or, or maybe like an ISO frame. But then I was turned on by our friend Ben Lowry, um, to shut up in this guy in the Philippines who makes these so-called Olongapo um steel cuff bands that that you know date back to the Vietnam War era when servicemen would would be on R&R and they'd go and have these these bands made for their watches. I think you saw one on Moki Martin's uh Tudor. Sure did. I had him make one for for me for this watch and I didn't want any sort of a military emblem on it because you know I didn't serve and that's a bit silly so um I I had him do kind of a double tank kind of like the old Aqualung style uh you know kind of double tank configuration on, on both the 12 o'clock and the six o'clock side. And then I had, had it engraved on the, on the inside with don't hold your breath, which is kind of my, what was my tagline for the book. And so, you know, it, it just, it adds some heft to the watch. It's big and chunky. It rattles around, but it, it, it kind of fits the vibe and kind of the era. Interestingly, if you look back at the history of Aqua star, the guy who Aqua star was originally a subsidiary of Jean Richard kind of big Swiss brand back in the early sixties. And, Then they just dropped the Jean Richard and kind of went off on their own and were called Aquastar. And the guy who sort of spearheaded their development was named Frederic Robert and he was this avid waterman into sailing and diving and that sort of thing. And so he really wanted watches with the name Aquastar on them to be focused on those activities. And he was kind of the brains behind the development of the Deepstar as well as this one. And then when he left Aquastar right around the time that the benthos debuted, he went to work for Omega and became, um, kind of the man behind, um, watches like the flight master. Um, and some of those early seventies Omega dive watches with these big wild looking chunky bulbous cases. And I think you can see the similarity between this watch and some of those, um, those wild, uh, Omegas. |
| James | Yeah, absolutely. That makes a lot of sense to see them together. The weird complication, you know, like, like it makes a lot of sense. And then, you know, looking really closely and please hit the show notes for this. Uh, we'll have photos of both of the watches we're talking about it, but I'm, I'm looking at a photo from your Instagram where it's on the Apolongo and some really good fonts. Yeah. Yeah. Stands out like a, I think my favorite is the, the, the just how seventies, the, um, numerals on the bezel are right. Yeah, they're just great, like really good. It's a matte bezel with full minute markings all the way around. And then on the tens, there's these big blocky kind of chisel cut fonts that I really like. The other thing that stands out, if you're looking really closely, is the minute track. The Ria is actually quite strange. It is a collection of wide white minute hashes. Yeah. And then the next five are wide black or the white part is narrow. Right. Right. And it's so 70s. Yeah. Yeah. There is that value. I don't think we've talked to on the show before, but I've read like there is that value in the way that people do five minute markings on watches changes how quickly it can be read. Oh, Okay. And my guess is this allows you to tell very quickly, like actually in the photo I'm looking at right now, the chronograph, orange chronograph hand is pointing to just past 10 minutes. Yeah. And you definitely don't have to count anything. Oh, sure. Yeah. Because it's just crossing the delta or the... It's just crossing from one style of marker into another. Right. And to flip back and forth, I think somebody was very smart when they thought Well, people are gonna wanna know to the five minutes, like very quickly how long they've been down diving. |
| Unknown | Yeah, right. A lot of rectangles. It's a lot of rectangles in the design. |
| James | I was just gonna say, it's a lot of rectangles and little squares. The hour markers are... There's four similar ones for the four main quadrants, a double stack at 12, but then the other hour markers are little squares painted on the dial or even printed, it looks like. And then a dab of loom, but a different color loom. Yeah. It looks orange in these, in the photo. |
| Unknown | Yeah. And I'm not sure if that's degradation or if it was a re-loom at some point or, or yeah, I'm not sure. And then the, the, the seconds hand, the regular sweep seconds hand is very, it almost doesn't fit. It feels very nondescript. There isn't any loom pip on it. I think it was probably fully loomed. It has no counterbalance. Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's almost like it was an afterthought. And, and, you know, from, from photos I've looked at of, of other ones. I thought maybe this was just kind of a replacement that was thrown on, but, uh, no, that's, that's what it looked like. And I'm guessing it was a fully loomed, uh, sweep hand, you know, and bright white. So that, that would have made sense, I guess. Yeah. |
| James | I mean, and this is, this is a seventies Garmin descent, or I guess Apple watch ultra or something like that. This was the thing you would go to the store and this is your dive computer and your, and your watch and the rest of it. |
| Unknown | Right. Right. They made a few different versions. As I mentioned, there was kind of a series two version of this one that I had a kind of a metal ring inside of the, the bezel insert and some other smaller changes. Um, but they also made a blue version, dark blue. And it was that, again, it was kind of that similarity to the Omega blue divers of the early seventies, the big blue and, and you know, the thousand meter and that stuff, which was really sharp as well. And then they made one with a, like a decompression bezel that was marked with decompression stops. I found a really good website called a dive into time.com and I'll, we'll put a link in the show notes because it's got a lot of great nerdy detail about the bentos and kind of all its configurations and some great photos on there too. |
| James | So, you know, I think the, the one thing that we didn't cover when, when I was talking about the Buren and we haven't covered for this, so maybe this is the best way to close up is if somebody was keen on one of these, what should they expect to buy one for, to, to pay for one? |
| Unknown | It seems like they're climbing. I I've seen them go for, you know, 2,500 to 3,000. Now I've, I've seen them higher than that. And recently there was, there was a story going around or a link to someone that had, if it was the wife of a former dealer or something, had a box of these and was selling them. And one of our listeners on, on, uh, who's a member of our Slack community, um, bought one as well. And, and I remember he and I were kind of going back and forth about pricing and what to look for in these. And he ended up getting one. I'm not exactly sure what he paid for it, but yeah, they're, they're climbing. I mean, they're, they're going up. I think it's one of those, like a sub 300 Doxa or, you know, kind of that, what would you call it? Not, you know, if you, if you look at like a Rolex or Tudor or old Seamaster being kind of the tier one dive watches of the era, this might be kind of a, the Doxa stuff, it's just a cult. |
| James | So like you either get it or you don't, but once you're in, then it's the buried entry is lower because they're more obscure. And because, let's face it, there was a big period of time when DOXA didn't exist, right? Yeah. Yeah. And obviously it's been a long time for Aquastar as well. And both brands brought back by the same guy, essentially. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Right. So it's kind of an interesting thing to look at the original context for these, then the historical context, then what they've become kind of in the era of the internet. Because certainly the new DOXA stuff has only helped bring more people to the original DOXA stuff. more eyes, more attention, that sort of thing. |
| Unknown | So, right. And the Buren that that's far more affordable, right? I mean, we're, we're talking in the hundreds, right? |
| James | I mean, that's a, yeah, I think, you know, if you go online, eBay, that sort of thing, I think for a running ready to roll, it'd be under a thousand dollars is the easy statement. I want to say the one that I got was somewhere around three or 400 bucks, but I actually don't remember. you know, I think you might have a little bit more trouble finding the bracelet or a bracelet like the one I have versus actually finding the watch. And then the other thing I would say for people who like the men stop, but maybe don't want to do the gold thing. They put that movement in all sorts of other watches, both beer and otherwise, and you can get ones in a steel case with a different with like bright red for the minute counter. Like there's a bunch of cool stuff. There's guys online. I found like little sub forums where folks were taking one version and changing the color of the chronograph wheel. And all that kind of stuff. So there's some fun there. It seems to be as reliable a movement as you're going to find for a vintage watch, for the most part. Simple, straightforward, fun. But yeah, I think in US, I think you're probably, let's call it $600 to $800 for one that's ready to go and in good nick. But I think you could also find them for less than that. That's probably just the safety kind of range I'd give you. |
| Unknown | That's such a low barrier to entry for, for a really cool, um, vintage watch. And I think we've both picked these lesser known, very quirky, you know, complication watches. And I think even, you know, even though the Spentos is exponentially more than, than your beer and it's still a reasonable price for, for what you're getting, which is a kind of a legendary dive watch from, of some repute. So. |
| James | Yeah. Yeah. I mean, if you change, change the name on the dial or put that, put the benthos functionality in a different watch, you're talking multiples of what the benthos would go for. Yeah. Right. Right. Yeah. I think the trouble with vintage watches is the price often makes them very serious things and it's important to remember. And this show is one option of, of how to remember it, but like, you know, retro watch guy or lots of other sellers that don't just deal in high four or five, six figure vintage stuff. there is still a world where you know, like I bought a bowl of at a garage sale on the way to the cottage for forty bucks or sixty bucks. I don't remember how much I paid eighty bucks. It was less than a hundred dollars, whatever I had on me. I gave the guy, but it wasn't enough to for again for it to really matter. So there is I think that you can still have a lot of the fun with stuff that isn't necessarily collector class right, but is still of the same era would have been worn in the same household, office, workplace, whatever you wanna compare it to, but maybe the brands had different stories over the preceding 50 plus years. I think there's still a lot of fun to be had in vintage watches, and it doesn't always have to cost a fortune, even in the context of what happened with watch prices over the last few years. But I would say, if there's something on the market now that you're interested in, now's a great time to do your research, because I would assume prices are just gonna kind of get better slash stabilize over the next couple of years. Yeah, yeah, seems that way. Cool stuff for sure. I dig that benthos, and I think it's really cool on that on the bracelet. Yeah, good picks. |
| Unknown | This was a fun one. |
| James | Yeah, I think that's a collection inspection. Two more watches, two that I think we both probably will hang on to, to the bitter end, as they say. This would be a fun watch to pass down, or maybe to give to a family member, knowing that they'd enjoy it and have fun with it sometime in the future. But I can't imagine trying to sell it for the $600, $700, $800 it's worth, or something like that. |
| Unknown | Yeah. |
| Unknown | All right, a little bit of final notes. All right, I'll go first. Mine's a, mine's a pretty quick one. Um, if you remember back on our episode 205, we interviewed, uh, Kim Sherwood, um, the, the, um, the British author who, um, uh, wrote a, I don't know what you'd call it, a continuation novel, um, authorized by the Ian Fleming kind of family and foundation, um, in the double Oh seven universe. And, uh, and we both read it and had a wonderful chat with, with Kim and the book is called a double or nothing. Well, Um, it's been out elsewhere in the world since, you know, last fall, but, uh, as of this past week, it is now available for sale in the U S. So if you were waiting to pick up a copy and didn't, you know, source it elsewhere, um, it's now available in the U S, uh, from Harper Collins. So, you know, a shame that it took so long, cause you know, we talked about it and it was a book that we both enjoyed and very much people got really excited by it. And, uh, and now you can get it. Uh here on this side of the of the pond so to speak. That's great. I We highly encourage it because it was uh, it's really a ripping read and she's she's already I believe she's done writing The second I think she's signed on for three books and she's she's done writing the second one So we can look forward to that probably in the next year or so. |
| James | Totally Yeah, I absolutely love the book go back and listen to that episode if you want a little bit more of the details I would say read the book first and then do the episode right? That's probably probably my recommendation but I don't think we had any like major spoilers. I just don't remember at this point, you know, it was 30 episodes ago or whatever, but it was a treat to have Kim on. I cannot wait for the next one. And I don't even like fiction that much. Yeah. Um, but I, I read that and loved it so much that I went back and read Casino Royale, the first in the series from Fleming and, uh, and really enjoyed that too. But, uh, double or nothing was great. Wall to wall, every page really enjoyed it and can't wait for another. So congrats on Kim for the U S launch for that. Hopefully we can have her back on for the second book. Yeah, definitely. And mine is actually just a really simple, straightforward one. It's something that I've always been kind of, we'll call it casually curious about. And then I picked a few up this week. That's the Marathon Watch Clip-On Compass. So it's the wrist compass that you can clip onto a watch strap. And for a long time, I've carried the Prometheus Design Works Button Compass, the one that you sent me as a gift, like got for me. and it has the little like lanyard, like rubbery synthetic lanyard. So I often keep it on that and it has a little channel that you thread a NATO through, right? So that it can go on your strap. This is a little bit more universal in that it's kind of like an open side that the strap slips into that has a couple little like spikes that hold on to it. |
| Unknown | All right. |
| James | So I mean, if you didn't want to put it on a NATO, you could put it on your belt when you're hiking, you could put it on the tail of the strap for your backpack Like I think you could probably find several ways that these would kind of clip on. They're also inexpensive. You know, the Prometheus design work, I want to say, would be the better part of a hundred bucks. Yeah. Or on the way to, and these are 30 Canadian. 25 U.S. it says. Yeah. So yeah, about 25 U.S. And they have a big luminous ring around them, which glows really well. My daughters love it. I had to shine the flashlight on them and charge them up and show them. And then you just have a very simple compass. It doesn't weigh much. It's no more or less bulky than the Prometheus Designworks one. And I think for the money, a great gift, really fun if you're going to go do some camping, some hiking, because it glows in the dark. I think these are cool. And I'd always been kind of curious. You know, Suunto also makes one that I've been curious of, but it was cool. I had a chance to grab a couple of these and I did. And they're rad. For 30 bucks, I don't think you can go that wrong. And, you know, Marathon, cool Canadian company. uh, obviously knows their way around kind of field used products, uh, with their military background and the rest of it. And, uh, just, just a neat thing that didn't cost a ton of money. So I thought I'd throw it in there. |
| Unknown | Yeah, that's good. I, I actually, I think I have one of these cause I bought a, um, I don't have it anymore. The composite case version of the navigator watch. And, uh, I believe at the time I bought it, they were including that with that watch. I don't know if it was a promotion, but, uh, I still have the compass and I'm looking at the, the marathon website and they show it, um, like clipped over the top of a map. I could see it like being used on a notebook or something too. Like it's a kind of a cool idea. Yeah. |
| James | Yeah. You could use it as a, as like a page holder in a field notebook or something like that. Yeah. They're clever. And like I said, not too much money, so I don't feel too bad, you know, recommending yet yet another product as we, uh, we commonly do, but yeah, that's the glow in the dark clip compass from marathon and Jason with a great recommendation for double or nothing, which is now available in North America. Fantastic bond universe sort of book. Otherwise, thank you so much for listening. If you want to subscribe to the show, get into the comments for each episode, or consider supporting the show directly, which will get you into the slack, get you the fifth episode a month, which is the monthly Q&A, and you can even have the option of a TGN signed NATO, please visit TheGreyNATO.com for more details. Music throughout is Siesta by Jazzar via the free music archive. |
| Unknown | And we leave you with this quote from T.S. Eliot who said, only those who will risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go. |