The Grey NATO – 210 – On Paper/On Wrist: The Apple Watch Ultra

Published on Thu, 06 Oct 2022 06:00:00 -0400

Synopsis

The episode is a discussion between Jason and James about Jason's recent trip to Bonaire for scuba diving. Jason shares his experiences diving in the warm Caribbean waters, including details about the dive sites, marine life, and his diving gear. He also talks about the Apple Watch Ultra he's been testing, comparing it to his usual Garmin dive computers. James asks probing questions to understand Jason's perspective on the Apple Watch Ultra's features, battery life, screen quality, and suitability for diving and other outdoor activities. They analyze the strengths and limitations of the Apple Watch Ultra versus dedicated dive computers and smartwatches like Garmin's offerings. The episode provides insights into the two friends' distinct preferences and philosophies when it comes to watches and outdoor gear.

Transcript

Speaker
James Hello and welcome to another episode of The Great NATO. It's a loose discussion of travel, adventure, diving, driving gear, and most certainly watches. This is episode 210, and it's proudly brought to you by the always growing TGN supporter crew. We thank you all so much for your continued support. And if you're listening and you're not part of the crew, but you'd like to support the show, Please visit TheGreyNado.com for more details. Jason, how are we doing? A little further away than normal. Thankful for the internet as ever today.
Jason Yes, indeed. I'm a bit further south than usual. I'm in Bonaire. I don't know what the... I should know by now. I don't know what the latitude is. I believe we're, gosh, maybe 13 degrees above the equator. Okay. So it's... Little warmer here than back home in Minneapolis, but I'm acclimating just fine here, a little waterlogged.
James So you've been down for what, three and a half days, something like that?
Jason Yeah, we got here Saturday afternoon and settled in fairly quickly. We've got this place to a bit of a routine, so we're staying in the same apartment building, different unit actually than we've been in before, but we rent at the same building. It's kind of an older building right on the coast. We've done it for probably a better part of a decade. And if, uh, you know, our longtime listeners recall, we, we did an episode from here, uh, last year, last August, when Ghoshani and I came down, it was kind of our boner episode. So we don't have to, we don't have to rehash too much. Things don't change a lot down here. If you can go back and listen to that episode.
James I'm assuming there's some people here who are, who'd be keen to do something like this. Yeah. And I like the fact that you found the place that you, you returned to. Yeah. That was always my thing with diving was I enjoyed diving close to home. Yeah. The colder the darker that sort of thing sure you see even less like I'm sure on those diet that dive we did on Kelvin, you know, you see like the equivalent of a an elevator shaft worth of worth of the wall, right?
Jason I suppose I we did a dive this morning on a site called invisibles and if anybody's familiar with Bonaire, it's a fairly popular site here. Although we were the only ones on it when we, when we went into the water. And then by the time we got out, there were another five pickup trucks parked on the beach. So it's a, it's a, it's a popular site. Wow. But yeah, I was curious. We were, we were kind of out. It's, it's what they consider here a double reef. So you, you swim off over this expanse of beautiful shallow white sand for man must be, you know, a hundred, 150 yards. Um, we, we go out on the surface just to kind of, conserve our air. So we're not just swimming over the sand, uh, sucking down our tanks. So we go out on the surface and then there's a buoy that marks the edge of the reef. And then we just go down there and, and then we start our dive. And, and when you go down, there's this beautiful reef at about 30 feet, um, really bright, um, lots of lush coral growth and, and colorful fish. And then gradually it slopes down. And I think I hit about 70 feet and, and then it, it's like another expanse of sand. And then there's another, reef that kind of rises up from there. And that's a, it's deeper. So it's a little darker and whatever, but it's, it's still pretty lush. And, and I was like out there on the second reef and kind of looking at my air supply and thinking like, okay, how much time do we need to get back? Et cetera. And I'm like, how far have we come? I, I'm just, you know, I thought I was, I actually had this thought in my head of like, if we, I know there's that show on one of these cable channels, like drain the oceans, I think it's called. And if we drained the ocean, how long would it take me to walk back to the car? And I still don't have a sense of that. Because when you're swimming, when you're diving, it's not a speed thing. You're just barely kicking, just propelling yourself around at a very leisurely pace. So it's not like I really have a sense of ground that we've covered or anything.
James Yeah. How big is the Hermes?
Jason Hermes is like a 600 foot long wreck and, and, you know, we, we, we didn't do it all in. No. Yeah, certainly not. You know, we did it over three dives. So yeah, big wrecks are a little, you get a better sense of, of perspective, you know, cause you know how long 600 feet is. And my contention always is with, with reef diving is let's just, let's just concentrate on like one little patch and just get to know it. You know, I'm just hover, just spend time just looking at one or two coral heads. And that's what we do on the night dives. Last night we did a night dive after sunset just off the back of the apartment building where we stay. You know, we just swim out to the reef with our lights and, and kind of just cruise around and just easier to, well, it's more difficult to navigate after dark. So we just, um, we just kind of hung around one area and then swam back in and, uh, it's just, there's plenty to see in a very small space.
James Yeah. Yeah. It's a bit like if you imagine going to your favorite hike, you get out of the car, you walk about 50 feet. And then you just walk in small circles for 45 minutes?
Unknown Yeah.
James That's kind of what scuba diving is. Yeah. Not always. I mean, drift diving, you can cover a huge amount of space, right?
Jason Sure. Yeah. Or if you went in your back garden and just got down on your hands and knees and just kind of put your chin in your hands and just sort of sat and looked at a specific plant for 30 minutes or something, you could really see a lot after a while. Lots of little bugs come out, little critters.
James So absolutely. So when you're, when you're not diving, uh, what else, what else can you get up to on the island?
Jason Gashani was working today for about four or five hours. She was on some zoom calls with her office back in Minneapolis. And so I tried to give her some quiet time. So I, I hopped in the rental pickup truck that we have. And I, I went to swap empty tanks for full ones. Then I went to the grocery store and stocked up cause we do most of our cooking and eating here. And, and, uh, there's a cruise ship in town. So Bonaire has become something of a cruise destination and man, these ships are huge and we're a little ways out of town. And as I was approaching town to go to the dive shop and the grocery store, you see this ship and it looks like, you know, I mean there are no tall buildings here and it looks like a skyscraper towering above everything else. And of course that brings literally thousands of people to the Island and there's just golf carts and trucks and rental cars going up and down the road, which is usually empty. But, uh, you know, there's, there's plenty to do here. There's, um, uh, You can drive over to the east side of the Island, which is kind of the wild side. It's a, they're really, there's a little bit of diving over there off a boat, but the shore is just too rough for anything offshore. There's some wind surfing that goes on over there and, and lots of flamingos. There's big flocks of flamingos that kind of hang out in the salt flats. And, uh, and then the downtown is kind of this quaint old Dutch city with an old fort and some kind of one main street of, of shopping and kind of these brightly painted Dutch style buildings. uh, with a, with a few interesting kind of souvenir shops and good restaurants and bars and things. But other than that, it's, uh, it's, you know, it's kind of beach and diving and that's right. That's what we're here for. And our apartment's a pretty sleepy little building there. You know, it's not like party town here. Like you might get at some of the resorts or hotels closer into town. And so we just, when we're done diving, we just, we pop a beer and sit on the, on the balcony here and just kind of watch the, watch the ocean. And, uh, that's, that's kind of our pace here.
James So I think we've covered some of this in the past, but I want to get to the hard hitting questions about Bonaire. Yeah. What's the local beer?
Jason I feel like you've told me at least once. There's a beer called, let's see, what do we have in the fridge? I just stocked up. Actually, I got some Leffy. Leffy, it's a blonde.
James Oh, it was Leffy. Yeah.
Jason It's a blonde, but it's, it's from Belgium, so it's actually not local, but there's a strong Dutch influence here. So you get Amstel. There's a, there's a kind of a Caribbean version of Amstel called Amstel Bright, which is this really, really light kind of Pilsner. And then of course, Heineken is everywhere. There's a beer called Polar. I'm not sure if that's a local beer. Okay. There's a few Mexican beers. There's a soul. These are all very light beers. Like we're talking four to 5% alcohol. So kind of perfect for hot weather after diving or even between dives. We come back from like a noon dive and we'll pop a beer and doesn't really go to your head like a, you know, something stronger would. Right. But I don't know that they actually brew any beer on Bonaire. It's such a small island that I don't know that there are any breweries. There's a good, good rum distillery here. If anyone's visiting that you can go to the Kodushi distillery and, um, and they've got a rum there called Rum Rincon. Rincon is the name of a town that's kind of inland here. And it's a, it's a nice rum, a good sipping rum. You can just have it with an ice cube and that's quite nice.
James And with, um, with the grocery store, are there any snacks there that you can't get back home? Weird potato chips? That sort of thing? Or is it all kind of run of the mill?
Jason The grocery store here is, you know, the first few years we were coming here, it was some kind of smaller supermarkets. And then I don't know how many years ago it was five, six years ago. They opened, there was a big, big one, like a giant, like mega store called Vandentwiel. And it's a, uh, presumably a Dutch owned, um, uh, store and they have everything. I think they have more stuff available here in terms of variety of foods than we get at, at like Whole Foods Market in Minneapolis. It's absolutely astounding. And what's cool is like you go to the cereal aisle and they're about no joke, like 25 different kinds of muesli, like granolas. But in terms of snacks, you know, we like, uh, um, you get like the plantain chips, like, uh, you know, like it's like a fried banana chip, you know, plantains or plantains. you know, dried mango, um, nuts, good, you know, good, good, uh, good selection of fruit. Um, and then, you know, the, the beer and, and, uh, and Gishani has been already, you know, cooking up a storm. She made a curry for us that's lasted a few days.
James And, and yeah, that's good. I always like to know what kind of the local snack scenario is. I, you know, having just been in Austria, there was an afternoon where I had skipped lunch to get some work done and take a nap and that sort of thing. And then, I realized they needed a bite to eat in the hotel for whatever reason, didn't have any food. Like at all. There was no restaurant. There was no anything. Yeah. And I walked to the end of this little street we were on and found a, you know, like a, a convenience store guy inside playing video poker on his cell phone. Neither of us spoke each other's language. Yeah. So I'm kicking around. I'm looking at like, I love weird Kit Kats. I think everybody does. That's not, that's not like a very interesting personality trait. So I'm looking at some weird Kit Kats and some cool, like, uh, Austrian German, uh, cookies and stuff like that. And I ended up getting a, uh, uh, a container of, um, they were spicy sour cream Pringles. Oh, wow. Wow. And it's just a combo we don't have over here.
Unknown Yeah.
James Spicy and sour cream. Yeah. And I'd say they taste exactly like how you expect, which probably should have kept me from bothering. Right. The fun thing about the fun thing, because obviously like chips over here, this is a derivation, but whatever. but like chips over here, like jalapenos, a big thing.
Unknown Yeah.
James Spiciness. Yeah. And in, in Switzerland, Germany, and I guess even in Austria, you'll see a lot of stuff. It's like paprika. Hmm. Sure. It's not like super spicy, but it is pretty good. And that's what I should have gotten. Yeah. It was just some like paprika chips. But I, I went, I got, I tried to get flashy and I paid for it. They weren't, they weren't bad, but I mean, Pringles are Pringles, right? The flavor doesn't, the flavor is only part of the Pringles equation.
Unknown Yeah.
James Right. Yeah, that's always fun. And I'm glad to hear you're down there. You know, I had been hoping that we could make it down for, you know, one week of this trip and it just didn't work out. So I'm definitely back on Instagram and watching all the posts and the dive looks great.
Jason Yeah. And, um, you know, in terms of the watch scene here, I, I, we don't cross paths with a lot of other people since we're, we're just kind of in our own space here and underwater a fair amount of time. But I was at the dive shop. yesterday, um, swapping tanks and, and one of the guys there who I think works there cause he had the VIP diving t-shirt. I caught a glance at his wrist and, and lo and behold, there was my, my one watch at the $5,000 plus category in our, in our one watch draft episode a couple episodes ago where it was, uh, the Royal Oak diver Royal Oak offshore diver with the steel case. And I, I, I don't remember it was either white or kind of a silvery dial that mega patisserie tapisserie dial and, uh, on a rubber strap. And it was, it was just so good. He had this good tan going and I like asked him to see it and I didn't snap a photo. I should have, but I didn't want to feel too intrusive. And he's like, he's like, Oh yeah, you know, I put a pretty healthy scratch on it the other day and I was like, right on, you know, that's great. So that was cool to see. And then, uh, I've, I brought a few watches. I brought, um, gosh, four or five watches. We're, we're doing some projects down here, some photo projects, and I'll be writing up a few things, uh, in the next few weeks. But, um, I actually left home before one of the watches that I'm diving with could arrive. And so it's being sent here, uh, and, and being collected by a friend of mine, who's kind of become a friend, um, via Instagram. And he's a TGN listener. His name is Tadzio and, uh, Tadzio, um, recently left his post as the, as the director of the, Dutch Caribbean Nature Alliance. He's a, he's a marine biologist. He's a sailor and Explorers Club member. He's a really interesting guy. I met him last time I was down here and, and we're going to meet up. Uh, he's, he's not on the island right now, but he's going to be back in a couple of days and I'm going to get my, my delivery from him and I've got a little something for him. And he's a kind of a doxa guy. He's got a Halios. He was wearing his Halios last time I met him for coffee here last year. So yeah, there's, there are pockets of watch appreciation here. The guy that owns VIP diving, uh, is a, is a big watch guy. So, And then a shout out to, you know, a couple folks wrote me privately and I'm going to try to meet up with a guy named Jack who's a listener of the show and caught my mention of Bonaire on the last episode and he's going to be down here next week. So we're going to at least meet up for a coffee or something one of those days. So yeah, if anyone else is coming down to Bonaire or you live here or want to make a spur of the moment, Plane ride down, the water's warm and the beer's cold. So, uh, you know, look me up or drop me a DM on Instagram and let's, uh, let's hook up.
James That's awesome. Yeah, for sure. I hope, I hope you're able to have a few good meetups down there and I'm excited to hear more about this, uh, kind of exciting new watch that's being delivered to the tropics. That's super fun. Yeah. Right. Want to get into a little, you know, sort of a wrist check watch? Yeah. What are you wearing when you're down there? Cause you went down there with a handful of watches.
Jason I did. Yeah. So I, um, Let's see, when we dove this morning, I was wearing the SCARFA, the MS-21. It's a blue dial, blue bezel, titanium case. We've talked about it before. I've got it on an Erica's gray strap. Just such a great watch for a trip like this. You know, I had set it to, we're on Eastern time down here, and I set it to Eastern time before I left home. Being that it's quartz, I pulled it out this morning. It was, you know, dead on accurate, strapped it on, off we went. But now I've switched up, I've got the Um, the loom dial Aqua land, which I'm, I'm, it's fast to become the, uh, kind of the watch of the year for me. And I know you wore yours a fair deal and, um, just such a fun, fun piece. We both had ours on at, uh, at, uh, wind up in Chicago. And I, I, I took a diving on, on the night dive last night and man, that, that loom dial after dark, like I shut off my light and it's like, it could almost like lead the dive with the loom on that dial. That's so fun. So it was so cool. And then. Uh, the topic of the episode or one of the kind of things we're going to talk about today, I've got it on my other wrist and it's the, the Apple watch ultra. So, um, we can get into that in a bit, but, uh, yeah, that's, I'm kind of double wristing here for our wrist check.
James Yeah. I, um, with the Aqualand, I actually, we, we just published a sort of editors roundup thing for Hodinkee with, um, outdoor watches and where we'd like to take them.
Unknown Oh yeah.
James And I went through a bunch of different options. Uh, you know, that a Garmin was kind of one of the first that jumped to my list, the Explorer to take it on another, you know, Baker, that sort of thing, which I've done. But then I kept coming back to the Aqua land and I, you know, I I've been reticent to do like a full hands on or review. I probably will at some point, but I've been resident to do it just in the hopes that the watch does come to the North America.
Unknown Yeah.
James Uh, people are so sensitive rightfully so about not being able to buy something, especially when it's a $500 watch that I think is kind of like among the coolest watches. Yeah. To come out this year, at least for my tastes. Yeah. So I was kind of putting my, my, the brakes on, on, on doing any sort of like large scale coverage, but I figured I round up a sort of editor's pick. Why not? And not unlike what you're saying where you, you were on a night dive and you're able to see the, see the loom. I was thinking about this dive I've talked about on, on past episodes, uh, the LCU dive in Hawaii out of Oahu. Yeah. Um, and, and, you know, it's, it's a, a negative entry dive in essentially open water. You're in maybe 90 feet of, of, of water. And, uh, and it's this military landing craft that carried like Jeeps and tanks and stuff. It's essentially just a big box. That's kind of also a boat. Yeah. And, um, it flipped upside down when they sunk it to make a reef. And so it made a cave at the same time. And I thought it'd be really fun to have that on wrist. go inside the cave, which is kind of lit loosely by little channels of open water and sunlight. And then the inside is full of like black tip reef sharks. And I thought it'd be fun to go in there and have the dial all loomed up. So that's what I was kind of my inspiration for that, that pick for the story. And I wore it all day yesterday. I absolutely love it. And I only switched it because you, you picked it for a risk check. So I went to the other watch I've been wearing a bunch of these days, which is the, my Garmin Phoenix success. Oh, nice. Uh, I thought I was to have a, an Apple watch in by now. They're currently not replying to your boys emails. Uh, so maybe that's not happening. I don't know. I'm sure they're busy. That's fine. I'm still like, I don't know that I've been this curious about a watch in some time. Um, because like I'd said on a previous or maybe it was on the Q and a that we did, but like, you know, now that the cooler weather's back, I'm, I'm on the bike a couple of times a week. Uh, you know, I want to go on walks and hikes and maybe even, um, you know, get my 5k time back, that sort of thing. And I thought it'd be really fun to kind of use. a new cool piece of tech to kind of spur me forward. Right. Encourage me to get out. Uh, but instead I, I, I charged up both the descent mark two and the six S and then I, I just picked the success cause it's black, black.
Unknown Yeah.
James My descents this like light blue, which doesn't work with every outfit. And I've been wearing it for the last couple of days and, and kind of, you know, just enjoying all the things that the Garmin does so well. Cause it does the smartwatch thing, but it does it with such a light touch and it's really easy to mute it and, have it just be a watch. Yeah. And then if I want to go on a bike ride, I went on a, I took my, uh, loosely forced my kids to go on a longer bike ride if they wanted to earn some slurpees. And, uh, and so we, we, we did all that and, and I tracked it on the, on the thing. So I knew when, when we got to an agreed upon distance, uh, that was worthy of a, of a treat. So yeah, it's a, it's a fantastic watch and I really like the, the size of this, the 42 millimeters, it weighs nothing. The screen is super useful. You know, work is very busy these days. So it's, it's nice to be able to keep on top of messages, but not feel like I need my phone like actively in my hand all the time. Yeah. Yeah. Yep. I've got it on wrist and, um, it's, it's, it's the right size. It's the right spec. I find it quite useful.
Jason Speaking of Garmin, I, I've been, um, we'll get into the, the Apple watch in a bit here and, and kind of, uh, some of its limitations when it comes to diving at present. Um, so I did bring the Garmin descent, G1 solar. So this is kind of the smaller form factor descent. I passed on my, my descent mark one to Ghoshani. She's working, uh, I passed my descent mark one on to Ghoshani and she's using it as her dive computer this week. And she really likes it. She likes the big display, but the descent, the G1, the solar version is, uh, it's, it's kind of the same size as like an instinct and kind of that same look of the case and the display.
James Oh yeah. This looks really nice.
Jason And, uh, and it's got the solar charging and, Uh, all the, all the standard dive functions is just a smaller, less colorful display and it still has the interchangeable straps. So I actually put the orange rubber strap on from my, from my Phoenix and, and it looks great against the black case. It's, um, it's, it's fun. It's been fun to kind of compare these two smartwatches for, for somebody like myself, who's, you know, accustomed and has always kind of looked at a sconce at, at connected watches to, to make this trip really make a concerted effort to to use both of these regularly. It's, it's been a lot of fun and, and I think it's, it's brought to, to, to light a lot of interesting ideas in my head about the use of a modern tool watch and, and kind of my tastes and that sort of thing. So maybe, maybe it's a good time to kind of jump into a little discussion about this Apple watch.
James I think it's absolutely time to get into it. I have a lot of questions about the, the Apple watch ultra. I also think that you and I may not, have the same interest in using one. Like it might, we might come at it from different angles. Yeah. So I think this will, this is going to be a fun chat and I'm going to learn some stuff, especially because I don't still have one. But if you're listening to this and you're somewhat newer to the show, we haven't done an on paper on wrist since episode 118, which is when we did an on paper on wrist for the Seiko SPB 143. Wow. And the idea behind on paper on wrist is when one of us has a watch that both of us are pretty interested in. We do one of these episodes where, It's actually a ripoff of a podcast I used to listen to called seen unseen. One guy saw the movie and one guy like watched the trailer, looked at the poster, read the synopsis. And then they, they kind of went at it from, from that. And, and it's one I miss and, and, and that's okay that, you know, podcasts come and go or whatever. Uh, but I always, I figured it'd be fun to kind of augment that because a lot of people like even in the audience right now, we know we have people who are interested in the Apple watch like me and we have people who have them. I have had several people, both people I know, like Paul Hubbard has his and is really enjoying learning the ropes with that. And then we've had people, you know, kind of reach out on Instagram saying, I got mine. Mine comes in at a couple of days, that kind of thing. So I think this is kind of the right timing. And I think it should dig into a watch that I think if you're, if you're in the zone for TGN sort of watches, the Garmin sort of stuff, I think that that's what Apple shooting for with this model. And that's why we figured it might be fun to do an on paper on wrist. Jason has it on wrist and I've definitely read as much as I could on paper. And I'll include some of that in the show notes. The MKBHD review is a really good starting point. And in that place, he comes at it from the position of a tech reviewer, less of say an adventure athlete or somebody who's going to take it hiking, or maybe some of the uses that Jason and I might have for something like this, more of an everyday watch that has all these other features. So there's a lot of different ways to come at this watch because The Apple Watch is such a generalist and all this does is kind of up the spec and the sizing and the rest of it. So, uh, Jason, if I, if I can start with a question, like how do you explain the size on your wrist compared to other watches?
Jason What strikes me about it is that it's 49 millimeters. And I think when, when people see that size, they think this is giant. I mean, this is bigger than, you know, what the Panerai submersibles are. I think 47, there are certainly bigger watches out there as well, It has a shape that I've never had on my wrist before. You know, the shape, the big length goes across the wrist and yet there, there are no lugs at all. I mean, this thing is like, uh, I'm trying to think what I would compare it to. It's, it's not, it doesn't feel like a watch. It feels like I'm wearing a very shrunk down kind of iPad, you know, on my wrist. I can't compare it to any watch that I own.
James It's definitely, is it comfortable? 49 millimeters lug to lug isn't huge.
Jason It's incredibly comfortable. And I think it's because I don't have the calipers with me, obviously, but it sits fairly flat, but it's, uh, it's such a rounded shape. Um, you know, I always joke that, that they must've used a, if you're familiar with the candy, the chiclet, um, if they use that as like a design inspiration, because it's exactly like the old chiclets gum that used to come in, in these packets. And that also makes it less aesthetically interesting to me, but it does make it incredibly comfortable. And I've been switching back and forth and in some cases wearing both at the same time. that Garmin Descent G1 Solar and this, and you know, the Garmin's follow a much more of a watch style fit with, with a strap that fits into, you know, in between two horns held in place with a spring bar. And this just kind of hugs the wrist really well. And I think what, what it allows for, and this arrived with two straps, it's got the ocean strap, which is this really beautiful supple kind of ribbed rubber strap. And then they sent the trail strap as well, which is a hook and loop or what we more commonly refer to as Velcro strap, kind of like a, almost like a gas gas bone style, but incredibly lightweight and very soft. And what that does is it allows the watch to be worn really snug on the wrist without feeling constricting. And I think what that gives you then is really good, you know, heart rate connectivity, the watch doesn't move around and, and because the case is titanium and then with these really comfortable straps. You can wear it snug without feeling like, ah, you know, like if I, if I wear it too tight, it's going to hurt my wrist. Or if I wear it too loose, it's not going to pick up the heart rate well, or it's going to kind of feel like it's flopping around a lot. So I'm someone who usually wears a watch kind of loose, even my garments. And I've had issues with the heart rate readings on some of my garments, the wrist heart rate stuff. I know I've talked about that in the past, but I have not had that issue at all with this. And, uh, And in that respect, I find it very comfortable. I think one other thing that I thought was really cool, and I've discovered this like within the first hour or two of, of having it in my hands was I've taken to wearing my watches generally on my right wrist for the past couple of years. I did that when I was younger, being a lefty. And then at some point in my life, I switched to my left wrist and I've been back on my right for, for a number of years now. Uh, and particularly when I'm diving, I wear my dive computer on my right wrist and the way that the, Apple Watch Ultra set up out of the box, the what they call the digital crown and kind of that protrusion, the crown guard, if you will, is on the right side of the case, which is not convenient for a lefty. And so I was like, I wish I could just flip it upside down. Well, lo and behold, you can you just I mean, it's digital and it's a symmetrical case. So I just flip the display around. Uh, and now the crown sits on the left side and kind of the lower left side of the case, which makes it really perfect for your thumb. Perfect for my thumb. So it's like a little, that's cool. So I really like that.
James Yeah. I'm, I'm excited to get a chance to play with one of these. I don't know this, this, uh, and I talk about it and with a handful of things, including like the loom on some watches, a lot of what the garments do, but like, there's something that, that like manages to capture the adult in me that really likes watches and the kid in me that just likes gadgets. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Like this would have blown my mind when I was 12. Can you imagine? Yeah, I know.
Unknown Right.
James The normal Apple Watch would have been too much.
Jason Yeah.
James Kids are going to be spoiled by this. Yeah. Yeah. No question. And so you got the dive strap and the other strap it came with was which one? The Alpine or the Trail?
Jason They call it the Trail. Okay. And I wore that kind of right out of the box. It is arguably, I would guess, I haven't tried the Alpine loop, which I think looks fantastic, but the Trail loop is incredibly comfortable. It's very soft. So, you know, I mentioned that it's kind of similar to the concept of like a gas gas bone strap or something where, um, other than it's not a single pass through strap, but it, it kind of loops back on itself and then Velcro shut after going through a loop. And it's just, it's really soft. I think actually I might've brought it along. I might use it on a dive just because you know, it'll dry fast. It's no problem. But the rubber strap is great. So I've got it on the ocean strap and the ocean strap, you know, this is classic Apple. I, you know, like it or lump it, you know, when it comes to their aesthetics, like their design, they really put interesting thought, you know, a lot of thought into kind of doing stuff that nobody else is doing. And this strap, how do I describe it? It has sort of tubes that run across the strap continuously around the strap so that you can fit this keeper, this almost carabiner style, titanium keeper through holes on both the tail of the strap and then the other end of the strap as well. And it effectively locks it into place. Now, what I found was if you're someone who gets, uh, I don't know if the term is claustrophobia, um, it might not work for you. And when I put it on, I kind of locked it in place, which will, yes, it'll keep the keeper from popping out and potentially the watch, I guess, from coming loose on your wrist. But it's very difficult to kind of get off in a hurry or get on in a hurry. And I thought, boy, if I'm going through security at the airport, like I'm going to be fiddling with this thing. I'm not gonna be able to get it undone. I'm going to have to have Gashani like pull apart this little keeper, um, to get it off my wrist. So I've just been using it as kind of a standard keeper, uh, where the, the ribs of the strap just are held nicely in place and plenty tight, um, underneath this carabiner kind of sits down in one of those grooves. And so that's worked out really well.
James Side question. Side question. Are you taking your watch off at security?
Jason Sometimes I do. Sometimes I don't. I just figured if they asked, if they asked me to, but, um, usually I wear it. I, even if you go through the full body scanner, I hold it. I just hold it above my head with, with the watch on.
James Yeah. I think, I think I've been asked once since traveling kind of post COVID when travel started again. And I just say like, can you do, can you do like a hand search? I don't want to put it through the machine. And usually they're just like, they don't, they don't say anything.
Jason Yeah. Yeah. I'm sure there are enough people with nice watches that don't want to do that.
James Yeah. I have no interest in taking my watch off at the airport for sure. Um, but yeah, the, uh, you know, tons of questions. The next one for me would be the screen, right? Because that's, I think has always been in my mind. One of the major differences between the Garmin product line, which is a TFT based screen, generally speaking, obviously you with your G one, it's, it's a, it's, it's a little bit of a more simple screen that offers a crazy amount of contrast, which I really like. Yeah. That's kind of what made the instinct. One of the things that made the instinct so nice.
Unknown Yeah.
James was that it didn't have to do the color and the higher resolution. They just kind of designed a screen that worked for the uses and it was super useful. Right. But then with the Apple stuff, you know, you have these OLED screens. They're usually pretty high resolution, tons of color. Is the screen kind of what you'd expect? It's like an iPhone screen, right?
Jason Easier to read, that sort of thing. It's the brightest screen of any kind I've used, whether it's my phone, an iPad, my MacBook. I mean, it's so crisp. I'm looking right now at the kind of the main kind of default compass screen, um, with the time. And it's just, it's just this riot of colors and it's so bright. And I thought, I thought it would be too bright trying to kind of sleep with it, et cetera. And of course they've got this night mode where you just rotate the digital crown, uh, in one direction or the other. And it goes to this, uh, red on black. It's a very kind of cool, very, you know, like the heads up displays or, you know, like a summer submarine, uh, you know, control. panel or something like that. So that worked out really well. But yeah, it is very crisp. I don't, I'm not a stickler for, uh, you know, kind of screen resolution. I know some people kind of, it's kind of like appreciating good wine. I don't, I can't do that either. I have very unrefined taste when it comes to wine. Um, I think I'm kind of the same with, with audio quality and with a kind of screen quality, but this is definitely a tick up. And if I can notice it, I think, uh, I think it's a substantial improvement over probably what people have come to expect.
James And then I think the next thing in my mind is if you have a great screen, what's the battery life like? You've had it for a few days. You've been doing it for a few days. Is it reasonable?
Jason I think so. I've gotten spoiled with the Garmin. So now I've got a bit of an explanation for this. When I got the Apple Watch, we were leaving Saturday morning. I got it on a Thursday, kind of mid-morning. It had 84% battery right out of the box. I put it on the trail strap. And, uh, went for a walk and, you know, kind of putzed around the house, tried it out. I'd made a phone call on it, which was very novel to me.
James Very, you know, yeah, that's cool.
Jason Yeah. Talk about something that'll blow a kid's mind. I mean, it's just crazy. You know, I played with it quite a bit and, and by the next day, probably about the same time the next day it was at 48%. That's acceptable, I guess. And then, uh, I, I powered it up. I think I charged it overnight and then I shut it down. I wasn't, I didn't want to wear it. You know, I thought I'd just, I was going to use this the way I would wear a garment or any sort of kind of modern tool watch, um, for diving, running, exercise, et cetera. So I powered it off and I put it in a watch roll with my other watches for travel, put it in my backpack. And then when I, when we got here Saturday afternoon and I unpacked everything and I pulled out the watch, I guess actually I pulled it out on Sunday morning cause I got up early. I was going to go for a run and I pulled out the watch thing. I'm going to, I'm going to try this out. I'm gonna wear it running. And it had somehow turned itself on and maybe this was user error and I'm entirely willing to accept that it was down to 22%. And so I, I threw it on the charger. I'm sure it would have done just fine for the run. But while I was making a cup of coffee, I threw it on the magnetic charger and, and then when it got over 50% it started downloading automatic update, which then required me to wait before I could use it. And by that time I got impatient and I threw my Garmin on and went out for a run. But it just feels like charging has to become, part of the equation when you own this watch. Whereas, um, by comparison, the descent granted it's solar, which I've never really figured out. I wouldn't say it's like, I don't think it's like eco drive level solar charging on the, on the descent.
James The demand is so much higher, right?
Jason Yeah. However, that watch was fully charged before the trip and it still has 12 days of power left on it. And I've used it for running. I've used it for five or six dives now. And, haven't turned it off. You know, I haven't powered it off. I've just got it sitting, you know, not in the sun, just kind of sitting in the some somewhat, uh, shady living room here. And, uh, and it's, it's maintained its power. Charging just does not become part of the equation with, with a garment and something that I appreciate. I remember last year we were here for just one week. We're here for two weeks this time. And I brought the descent mark two and big screen, big colorful screen, you know, lots of power, lots of cool features, great dive function. And I didn't charge it the entire week. And that's not a solar charging watch. So I just have to think like long-term. I don't like the idea, even though it's not a 24 seven wear for me anyway. I don't like the idea that when I put it on to go do something, I have to worry about is, does it have enough battery? Do I have to always have my charger handy? So.
James Yeah. My guess is that it's a, it's a response to like the battery life is so crucial to the Garmin stuff because of some of the long travel sports they're designed for. Yeah. Whereas from what I've, what I've read, at least the Apple one was designed that you could do a triathlon.
Unknown Right.
Unknown Like an Ironman triathlon. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
James Like a crazy and really gnarly piece of long, but not extended, you know, athleticism.
Unknown Yeah.
James Yeah. And you know, I've, I've got my, the success on my wrist right now. I have everything turned on. So it's connected to my phone. It's doing the heart rate, the highest resolution heart rate.
Unknown Yeah.
James It's doing all that kind of stuff. I have the screen set in to disable the backlight unless I press a button.
Unknown Yeah.
James It's not automatic or, or trying to sense when I'm looking at it.
Unknown Yeah.
James This is the battery life for mine and I charged it this morning. I've worn it all day is currently seven days with everything on. Yeah. And then if I click it over to battery saver, it's 31 days. So it's a month.
Unknown Yeah. Right.
James Um, and certainly I talked about this with the, the descent mark too. that I have, which is the 43 millimeters. So it's, it's, it's their fullest spec dive watch, but it doesn't, um, it, before you get to the version that can do air integration and that kind of stuff, which, so this would be the one that I would buy if I wanted to buy a, a system from Garmin. Right. With that one, I went to Newfoundland and did a ton of hikes and, and I charged it before I left. And I came back with like, I think 40%, I did probably six or seven hours of like recorded hiking. Yeah.
Unknown Yeah.
James And it's really easy in the Garmin thing. And I'm sure it's really simple in the Apple stuff. It's just something I'm very curious about. But it's really easy to decide what you want. Right. Right. The Garmin one, you can very quickly go like, Oh, I don't need my heart rate while I drive for the next two or three hours or whatever.
Unknown Yeah.
James And you just disable it. So it's like simple to really kind of balance the high resolution, GLONASS, GPS, screen brightness, music integration, all that, all the way down to like, this will show me the time. Right. And, and you can put it in max track or whatever, where it's like, it's not pinging the GPS as often. Yeah. So yeah, it's, it's, it's definitely two different formulas for something, but, but it's definitely a, I do wonder if, if you kind of have to pick between the screen, the crazy bright iPhone experience screen or the, I'm going to go do, you know, a several day push on a mountain and, and I'll just, I'll take the garment and it'll do the whole thing for me.
Jason Yeah. So I, I've got it currently set. Um, you can obviously have the screen, so it's always on. I have a minor, so it shuts off and it comes on for, I believe, 15 seconds when I lift my wrist to look. Right. So it's usually dark. Um, unless I want to check the time, which makes sense. And what Apple says is that you can get 60 hours in low power mode and 36 hours of kind of active, active use. And they're kind of touting that as one of the big improvements of the Apple watch ultra because they're making it for athletes that want to do an iron man or do some, some long hikes. And, and, and yet it's also the chief complaint that I've heard about this in these early reviews is that this still isn't the watch for a guy who is going into the back country and needs some of the SOS features or the navigation features to, to get back to the trailhead. You know, if you get lost in the back country, you're not going to want to rely on, on this. the guy that we've mentioned in the past who does extremely thorough reviews of all kinds of sports technology is DC Rainmaker. And he put up a review recently of the ultra and a video, which I haven't watched, but I caught the title of it. It says I hiked 14 hours straight with the Apple watch ultra. So he's, he's put it through a lot more paces than I have already. I'm short of diving with it, which I've been able to do, but I'm definitely worth checking that out. We'll put the link in the show notes, you know, 14 hours straight hiking sounds like a lot, but you know, what if you, what if you're doing a three day or a through hike or whatever? I still want the Garmin for that sort of thing.
James Yeah. I mean, I guess, I guess maybe within this, like maybe for some people you're in an ecosystem where you're charging your iPhone every day.
Unknown Yeah. Probably.
James Yeah. I think I could probably get my 12 pro to go two days, but I'd have to really limit what I'm using it for. Like I'm not, that's not going to be the three hours a day that of screen time I get now.
Unknown Yeah.
James And maybe that's the space. And then I know if you, you know, if you turn everything on, on a Phoenix, it's not going to go for a week. Right. You know, I think it's probably something like 30 hours of Bluetooth, GLONASS, screen brightness, all the metrics, track back. And so there is a, there is a point where like, if you, if you really go apples to apples, that, that, that Delta starts to decrease. Right. But it's definitely no stretch in, in having this as a day-to-day sport metrics watch, where the, where I do get a week out of the, the Phoenix.
Jason Yeah. And I think this, this, this brings up a couple of things in my mind. And one is this is not an apples to oranges and our use of apple is unintentional here, but a good pun. This is not an apples to apples comparison, I think between something like the Garmin Descent G1 and the Apple watch, because The Apple watch environment, the Apple watch product, the Apple watch ultra is for, I believe people that like the idea of the Apple watch, but we're looking for something a little more to use for these more extreme sports, more adventures, take diving, et cetera, more water resistance, better battery life, largely are going to be, you know, you go out for a run, maybe you do it, you know, you train for a marathon or a, or the Ironman, but then you're back home, you're back at your hotel room, you're charging it overnight, um, every couple of days to, to keep it juiced up. Whereas, The way I like to wear a watch like this, what I consider these modern tool watches is maybe the way a dive watch was worn back in the sixties where, you know, it's the old, uh, you know, ridden hard, put away wet kind of thing where, you know, when I get back from the dive, I sink the Garmin and then I, I take it off, dry it off and set it on the table and kind of keep my citizen or my scurfer or whatever on my other wrist. And then when it's time to go diving and I throw the descent on and, and I power it up and use all of its It's functions. And with the Apple Watch, while a lot of the gadgetry, the functions that the Apple Watch is known for, all that accessibility, all that syncing, all the, you know, Hey Siri, call, you know, so-and-so or whatever, I'm not interested in that. I really want to wear it like I do a garment, which is a beautiful product. I've loved wearing garments over the years. I will never be one to pretend that it could be my one watch. I think like car instruments nowadays, kind of mimic an analog display. It bothers me that there's nothing behind that display that's connecting it mechanically to anything that drives it. And I think looking like right now, I've got two screens for the Apple watch selected. I've got kind of the main compass screen, which has a sweep hand and two, you know, an hour and a minute hand on a, on a standard 12 hour scale. Uh, and then if I swipe, I see like what looks like it, like a Batman, you know, Rolex GMT style, uh, display as well. And, and it's, it just doesn't do it for me. I'd rather even look at, my $300 scurfa with a quartz movement inside pushing hands around a dial. And so, um, this will always be a watch that I, yeah, maybe we're just the weirdos. Yeah, maybe we are. I suspect we are because, because I'll tell you what, when I was on the flight down here, I remarked to Gashani, I looked around, there are just so many Apple watches on wrists, just the standard Apple watch that clearly we're in the minority. You know, I saw very few kind of analog watches. I saw a lot of Suntos of course, uh, dive computers, Um, just a lot of Apple watches. And so, but it's just not the way I, I want to wear a watch.
James I think the nice thing about the garment is you can do that. Like use it like a dive computer. If that's what you want, use it for your dive, take it off. You have the one that does solar. So if you leave it on the patio, it's going to be charged. You know, the battery life thing we can put to rest, but I'm just comparing the two and I hadn't dug that deep into this G one. It was a really cool one.
Jason It is. I even was saying earlier today that if I wasn't kind of, watch enthusiast that would be an excellent only watch because of all the functionality and it it wears comfortably it's it's very it's a handsome watch it looks very sporty it kind of has that toned down you know kind of tactical g-shock look if you like but but much more comfortable and the solar does make a lot of sense for these because a little bit more charge can make a lot of difference and and i guess with the apple watch the the reply would be like
James Well, let's say you're hiking or you're camping, like you would have a battery, just charge it at night. It's not a huge battery in there. So a 10,000 milliamp hour battery, which is not outside of the norm for someone to carry to keep other things charged, headlamps or whatever, their phone, would probably do just fine. And I think there's usage cases for all of this. In your case, like you want to wear a scarf or you want to wear a Rolex or something, other times the garment stuff seems to work better as a slot in for specific things. Whereas it seems like the Apple really to get your money's worth, it's kind of your day to day.
Jason Yeah. And this is overkill for a lifestyle watch for me because I think two things. I think I don't I have no desire for all of that extra functionality that comes with the Apple ecosystem. I get that fine from my phone and maybe I'm already old fashioned by just relying on my phone for that stuff. But also the aesthetics, I, it, it doesn't, like I said earlier, it doesn't look like a watch on my wrist. It's, it's a handsome thing. I mean, I like the way it looks. The titanium is cool. They put this little bit of a flange around the Sapphire crystal, the crown guard, if you will, the, digital crown is kind of chunkier and then the strap is sharp. I've got the kind of this lemon yellow color and it looks very sporty. It looks very Caribbean. It looks very tropical, but I still like a round watch with, with a strap lugs. I mean, call me a traditionalist, but that's what I like to look at when I, when I glance at my wrist.
James So I dig this sort of like Newsome, Ichabod sort of look, especially of this one over the standard. There's just something so Apple about it, right?
Unknown Like, yeah, yeah.
James I just, you know, I like tech. I like the layout. I've been watching videos of the use of that kind of thing. So it kind of speaks to me, but I definitely, and this has always been my case with the, with the Garmin, you know, maybe at most I've gone a month just wearing a Garmin as a smartwatch, but I still just, I don't want to feel like I'm suddenly leaving some precious ecosystem when I want, yeah, when I want to wear my Aqua line or my SPB. Right, right. Now I, Like suddenly my friends won't be able to find me because I put on a, you know, a watch that doesn't, doesn't update my location.
Jason Now, I think, you know, having said all this about not wanting all that Apple functionality, I'm very impressed with what it can do. And I could see how for somebody that gets into this stuff, it's, it's, it could be addictive. It could be, I could get used to it. Someone could get used to it. I try it out. The ECG kind of heart function, feature. It does a legitimate ECG. It can detect arrhythmia, like atrial fibrillation. It checks your blood oxygen level, your pulse ox, which the Garmin does as well. But then it has crash detection. It'll summon an emergency contact on your phone. There's a very loud 86 decibel siren that will go off if you press and hold this giant orange button on the right. Well, I guess it's on my right side of the case. it has all of these, these features that are, you know, they've really thought this through and made a very robust product. Um, it's just whether or not I like it. And I think my main interest in this watch, um, was, and I think the reason Apple sent me this watch to try out was the dive functionality. And unfortunately, uh, while Apple has full intentions on making this a full on dive computer, uh, it's not available. That functionality is not fully available yet because instead of creating their own algorithm and, and, and system for tracking all that you need in a dive computer, which is, you know, no decompression limits and surface intervals and nitrogen loading and you know, all of that stuff, a scent rate, um, they have decided to go the route of partnering with the parent company of Oceanic, which is a, an old, Uh, old name in the dive industry that they've, you know, well-respected, they've made their own dive computers for years. They've, they've make masks and BCDs and wetsuits, et cetera.
James Yeah, of course.
Jason So that's the route they're going. That app will be available in late October, I'm told. And then you, you load it into your watch and now it becomes a full on, uh, dive computer. And I'm sure that the graphics, I'm sure that the interface is going to be incredibly intuitive and very easy to read underwater. the caveat being that, that they were focusing on recreational diving. So they're, they're not planning on doing anything for tech diving, you know, beyond 130 feet with, you know, decompression stops and gas changing and all that stuff, which, which Garmin has built into the descent. And we interviewed, um, Patrick who, uh, helped instrumental in the design of the Garmin descent. Um, you'll have to go back and check out one of our earlier episodes, uh, with him. It was very interesting. Um, so I'm, I'm eager to try out this dive functionality. So as it stands now, the watch does have a simpler function that they just call the depth sensor. And it's built right in. You can set it so that it's triggered or comes up automatically when you descend even a foot or two underwater, which is how I've been using it. And it's pretty cool. What it's functioning as is like gauge mode on a Garmin or just a simple bottom timer. You know, in the old days, divers would just have a depth gauge in a watch and maybe a thermometer. And they would do all the calculations in their head. They would do, you know, the 120 rule, which is, you know, 120 minus your depth gives you your, your no deco limit for a given depth on your first dive of the day. It's not dissimilar to what you can do with this Apple watch at this point. And it's very clear. It's incredibly easy to use. It has a scale on the left side in feet and on the right side in meters, you can see kind of this water level, so to speak, going down the scale. With your current depth in a, with a big number in the middle of the water temperature and your submerge time. So much of what you need, um, for very simple, you know, kind of snorkeling, skin diving, free diving, whatever you want to call it. I've been wearing it on my other wrist, uh, for, for scuba diving. And it's been, it's been a lot of fun to see it's a bright, extremely easy to read display. And I've enjoyed that. I can't wait to try out the oceanic plus app for, for the full dive computer functionality. when I have worn it diving and once I've surfaced it immediately stops and it'll show, you know, your last dives statistics. And then in order to kind of review that you have to press and hold the digital crown and then it does what's called a water unlock and it says ejecting water. And I read somewhere that actually this, this was a feature that was also on past Apple watches. It actually squirts out water from, some orifice on the, on the watch.
James I guess conceivably the pressure diaphragm.
Jason Yeah. And you can actually hear it. I actually listened and I thought, is this just a sound effect? Or is it, you know, it's like these cars that have like the fake exhaust noise coming through the speakers or something. That's what I thought. But no, I sounded like a legitimate kind of ejecting water noise. And then it says view your last dive. And unfortunately it doesn't do a very good job of kind of logging any of that information. It says in order to view previous dives, you have to go into the health app on your phone. So it syncs with the Apple's iPhone health app. And then it just kind of shows like your depth history for that day. Like at three P kind of like with your steps or your mileage running or something on a given day, it'll just kind of show it in this bar graph. And I kind of wanted to see like at this time of day, I dove for, you know, 35 minutes and I went, 84 feet and the water temperature was this, it doesn't do that logging. That will certainly come with the oceanic app, um, when that comes out. But, but currently it's, it's kind of just a very simple depth sensor.
James And that'll make it more your full fledged, uh, dive computer at that, I guess at that point we'll have more competition or it'll walk its way into more competition, but it's not adding more money. Right. Granted, I guess at the, at this point it doesn't really function as a dive computer. Right, right. Uh, it, it's a fascinating thing because these things do, These smartwatches from any brand do so much. Yeah. And then presented in such a simple way, especially the Apple stuff. Right. Right. Like with the least barrier to entry. So, yeah, I'm fascinated to see how it works with the oceanic app and if it becomes something that really speaks to the dive community or if it becomes something where Apple Watch users that are also scuba divers may start to use it simply because of its convenience.
Jason I think it'll be the latter. You know, personally, I wouldn't make the switch from the Garmin environment for a dive computer, because on those occasions when I might venture deeper than recreational limits and get into a little decompression, I mean, it remains to be seen whether the Oceanic app will allow for that or if it just sort of says you're on your own now. Or locks you out. Or locks you out or something.
James Cheap dive watches in the past. Sorry, cheap dive computers in the past that like would just kind of panic.
Jason Yeah, right. You know, one note about the, the Garmin, uh, dive computers is that, uh, one thing, you know, that was such a quantum leap for me after, after using even the Sunto D9, which was a pretty, pretty full featured one back in the day was, um, you know, the underwater heart rate sensing and, uh, and then the, the sensitive, well, two, two other things that the GPS plotting, um, for when you actually start a dive and finish a dive, it'll actually plot your position where you descend and where you come up. My one thing that I always feel is the holy grail for a dive computer would be underwater navigation. And, you know, I've mentioned this to anybody who, who will listen in the dive computer industry is, uh, you know, if you can make that happen for underwater navigation, I think you'd, you'd corner the market. You'd, you'd, you'd make a huge sensation, um, with a watch because currently we're still underwater. We're still relying on, you know, uh, a sense of navigation. You know, you have to use a compass and you have to use your swim distances or counting kick cycles and landmarks underwater. I mean, it's very old school navigation, which is great. And you learn that when you, when you take a, an advanced diving course, but that day will come. I would suspect it's just that currently you have to be able to have a view of the sky on interrupted by, you know, 60 feet of water, uh, in order to navigate underwater. But, uh, I do love the compass, uh, function on the, on the garment. It makes it very easy to kind of just sort of look at your, at your wrist and it kind of just swivels through the compass headings and you can kind of plot a course. But, uh,
James Yeah. When, uh, when I abandoned my debt, my recent dive in monastery beach in California, I had made a point of, you know, setting my heading one way and knowing, knowing what I needed to go back. So I didn't actually have to go up to relocate. Oh yeah. Um, I just, you know, used one hand to keep the broken mask on my face. And, uh, and then, you know, had having cycled over to the compass, just followed it out. Uh, it, it really is a wonderful feature. I, you know, I, I wonder if there's an ability, to have a beacon or something. Right. So where, where, where you, where you drop. Yeah. Could, could interface above and below the water. So you'd have a GPS point and then maybe it could extrapolate data from that starting point to a certain grid underwater. And, and it would maybe allow you to, to know when you're coming back to your beacon. Yeah. Right. Like all of that kind of stuff would be very useful.
Jason Right. As we learned from Patrick in our discussion about the development of the Garmin Descent, they're using sonar technology to, to read, tank air pressures with, with a team of divers. You could have a dive master leading a group of divers and he can program, he can put a transceiver on different tank valves and then read what all of his groups air pressures are at so that he can make sure nobody gets too low. So cool. I would think the same technology could be, well, here's me talking in English major, who knows, right? Quickly, let's patent this, you know, where you could, you could use something similar, like you said, like a beacon underwater where you place it, where you started your dive and then you can just that
James Yeah. You know, solutions for everything that I always find massively impressive. You're like, wait, how did they do that in 1955? They go like, well, you had to do this. And you're like, you did that while also diving. Okay, cool. Yeah. All right. Well, I think that's probably, you know, plenty for an on paper on wrist for the Apple watch. I think it's an, it's an interesting thing to look at. Um, a brand that's had several years to really develop into this space with the Garmin stuff. And obviously you and I know the Garmin platform really well. So it's easy to have something of a bias. Yeah. Yeah. We have several of the watches. I've been using them for many, many years since the Phoenix three, uh, you, I think maybe even longer. And, and they really offer a specific take on, on the, on the smartwatch that is different than the Apple take, which I think is why I find the Apple watch kind of interesting and why I'm excited to get a chance to, uh, to take a peek at it. But obviously if you have any questions, if there's something that you think we didn't get in the translation between on paper and on wrist, hit the show notes at the great NATO.com on sub stack. And you can leave a comment. Jason and I will take a look, triage any questions. And if there's something specific that you need answered and we can't do it, my guess is it's in that DC rate maker review. Yeah, seriously. Uh, look, I don't want to take up any more time than I have to. We normally record in the morning on Tuesdays. We're recording in the evening. And I assume you're staring down the barrel of what will soon be a great sunset and possibly a nice night dive or something. So you want to give us some final notes? Yeah. Why don't, why don't you kick it off? Yeah. So mine is actually the one that I mentioned last week I was waiting for. Of course we finished recording and about six minutes later it was delivered. I remember that. Yeah. Yeah. So I've been pretty good over the years of not buying things that Instagram advertises to me. Yeah. I got to tell you, they really had my number with this one. They probably showed me the ad 500 times, probably more like 80 times. Yeah. But it's, it's from a company called Alpaca gear and they make all sorts of cases, sling backpacks. If you think kind of like in the same space as Bellroy, but not where Bellroy started with like nice wallets, like now where they've moved into like kind of techie gear and cases to hold bits for your phone and your camera and all that kind of stuff. Sure. And I've been using like a $5 MOLLE pouch that I bought on Amazon and it's a zippered pouch with like one central pocket and like a little side pocket, nothing more, nothing less, a little bit of Velcro. When I first bought it, I thought it would just be something I could hang on to my Observer Collection Tango bag, which is what I, how I first started using it. And I found it pretty useful, but then I found a different use for it, which is, There's always like six or seven things that when I'm traveling, I want right at hand. And I don't want them in four or five different places in my camera bag, which is now under the seat in front of me. Right. So I have this little bag that might have, um, my iPhone cable, a small charger, like a top up charger. Maybe this is where you'd have a flashlight. If you have any medication or painkillers, if I needed something like that, super, that's where I would keep this as well as small stuff. You don't really want to get rid of. This is where I would keep a pen and a, you know, my TGN adventure flag and that kind of stuff. Uh, maybe what else have I got in here? I've got one of those Prometheus design works compasses. I've got like a James brand, like one of those pry bar tool things that does two or three different things. It's mostly a bottle opener, right? Right. And then sure. Your passport could go in here, loose change, stuff like that that I don't want in my pockets. And I kept seeing these ads for these Alpaca things. And some of them were kind of like those little tech cases, tech purses or whatever that are for, you know, Oh, look, you can put your knife in this pocket and a, and a, a thing in this one. And maybe you could put a watch in here or it's an RFID thing. So you put your credit cards in this part. It's like an advanced wallet. Not that interesting for me. And, but they did find this one called the essentials tech case, which is kind of like a big zippered pouch, almost like a small fanny pack without the strap. Yeah. A little bit more rectangular and a little bit less depth. And then I looked at that and it can hold a small iPad or maybe a Nintendo switch. Like it's a little bit bigger. I was like, no, no, that's too big. It turns out they have a mini one. So this is the essentials tech case mini. So it's about 55 bucks. It comes in a few different colors. I picked the kind of OD green. It has waterproof zippers. It has a bright orange interior. So you can see whatever's in there. And I'm super impressed by it. It's got a, uh, it has loops. So if you want to put a strap on it and wear it like a cross carry, like a fanny pack or something like that, you can, I did at the zoo recently and it was super helpful. Uh, and, and I guess my, my end result is if like, if you're in a scenario where you carry a few things around or if like me, you travel and there's a handful of little things that always end up in two or three different places in your bag or in the pockets of your pants or, or, or a jacket and eventually you're going to lose them. I find this to be super useful. And, um, as far as the Alpaca stuff goes, I'm really impressed by how well it was made. You never really know with Instagram brands and maybe they aren't, and they're just good at advertising on Instagram. But I was on the fence. I was like, well, you know, this is 55 U S it could be good. It could be bad. It's kind of on the line and it came in and I'm pretty impressed by it. I'll probably get a ton of use out of it.
Jason Yeah, this looks great. And you know, it's funny now that I'm looking at their website, I'm sure I'll get served a ton of ads from them too. And I'll end up buying one, but yeah, yeah, you're screwed. My, my last similar product purchase also came from your recommendation and I think it was, it was a, it's a Tenba like a little, not a cube, but it's kind of a zipper pouch that doesn't have quite as much organization or it doesn't have this sort of taco closure style like this one. I like the look of this one. I liked that the inside is orange for one thing, easier to find stuff. Um, but I need something like this. This is great. And 55 isn't, isn't out of the question. I think that's a,
James Yeah, and they make bigger ones. They make much smaller ones. There's a ton of stuff on the thing. And again, this is when I want to be super clear. I don't have any relationship with Alpaca. I paid the full price for it. I couldn't find a promo code on camel or anything like that. If there's a deal and I can find it, I promise I didn't create the deal, but I'll include it in the show notes. If you guys can save a few bucks, of course I'll do my best, but I don't have any relationship with them. They didn't write me. This isn't an ad and I paid the full price for it and I like it. I'll probably buy more stuff from them. This is in the zone of what I need. I'm at the point now where I could see myself being convinced, uh, you know, maybe, maybe in a spell of, uh, insomnia or something like that to buy a couple more things. Uh, I also think there's probably a couple of Christmas gifts in here for, uh, my brothers and stuff.
Jason So yeah, good, good pick. I liked that. I might end up, I might end up with one. That's good.
James That's the elements tech case mini from Alpaca gear. It's about 55 bucks. Cool. And what have you got?
Jason Well, mine's a bit more of a sober pick, uh, for a final note this week. And I'm, I'm going from, uh, the Caribbean to the Himalayas, uh, mountaintops here. Uh, this is a video, uh, on YouTube that was produced or, or, uh, underwritten by the North face back in 2019. And it is about the, the ski descent of the Lhotse face by the now departed, um, and sorely missed, uh, Hilary Nelson and her partner, Jim Morrison. Um, if you follow the news in the past week or so, uh, you've probably seen there, there've been some, some horrific situations on Manaslu, which is a, one of the high mountains, one of the, the 14, 8,000 meter peaks in the world, uh, in the Himalayas, there've been some avalanches and some, some real tragedies over there. Hilary Nelson is a, was, I'm sorry, a spectacularly talented, uh, ski mountaineer. And she did a lot of her adventures with her, uh, her partner, Jim, Jim Morrison, one of which was to ski down the Lhotse face. Now Lhotse is the, the, the big mountain that shares kind of a saddle with Everest. It's right next to Everest and, and Hillary Nelson had climbed Everest and then, uh, back to back climbed Lhotse a number of years ago. And I believe she was the first woman to do so. Um, and then, uh, she and Jim, uh, actually, climbed Lhotse and then skied down it, which is just an absurd thought in my mind. And this is also what Hillary and Jim were doing on Manaslu. They had climbed, or Manaslu, I'm not sure how it's pronounced, they were climbing that mountain when just a simple slip, a small kind of mini avalanche made her lose her ski edge at the very summit. after they had taken a summit photo, which is really sad actually. And she, um, tumbled down the wrong side or the, you know, the opposite side of the peak, um, and fell 5,000 feet. I believe ending up near or in a crevasse and just a horrible tragedy. You know, there've been lots of, uh, of tributes that have been put out from everybody from, you know, Conrad anchor to Jimmy Chin to, to a number of people and, and, uh, You know, Hilary Nelson, I remember her name from, from outside magazine, you know, many, many years ago, she's been around a long time and incredibly talented. And, and, uh, if you want to get just a peek into how talented she was, uh, and, and just an insane project to actually ski down Lhotse, uh, you should check out this video on YouTube.
James Yeah, it's a, this was a big hit. You know, I feel like these happen every year, of course, like since we've been doing TGN, we've lost a lot of people that I feel like we all, we've all seen the video of their, of something amazing they did, whether it's skiing, something you should never ski or, and this is just what the mountains are. They're just, you know, unforgiving. It's super sad. It's actually just like really sad to watch. I have this video, the video Jason's talking about, uh, playing in the background. It's a little bit different, you know, with, um, after, especially after that special from Mark the Alpinist, uh, earlier this year, which we've talked about, it just seems like it's been, I know that this isn't true. It's just that I've gotten old enough that people, that I've kind of followed and idolized for years, you know, ran there, ran out of luck in the mountains. And, uh, and, and I, so it's confirmation bias or selection bias that it suddenly feels like it's happening a lot. I think this is just how it always is. She was amazing. And it's definitely worth watching this video. If, if I'm, if I have the correct route and everything, this is one they've actually made at least one other documentary about, it was called the dream line. And it's like, it's one of the most ridiculous, skiing lines in history.
Jason Yeah, it's crazy to think. Speaking of departed, talented mountaineers today, the day we're actually recording, October 4th was the birthday of Uli Steck, another incredibly talented, he was a Swiss mountaineer. Anyway, hate to end our episode here with a bit of sad news, but you can certainly celebrate what Hillary did by watching that video. Just an incredible talent. All right, well, I guess that's an episode. Yeah, I guess so. Checking out for this week from, uh, from Bonaire. We'll be back next week. I'll be here again next week with, uh, further dive news and maybe some Apple watch, uh, ultra further updates. And certainly, you know, while I'm here, uh, if you listen to this and you do have more questions about it, as James said, you know, hit it up in the, in the show notes in the comments on Substack, because if you have anything specific you want me to check out, uh, now's the time because I'm here using it. So.
James Well, as always, you know, thank you so much for listening. If you want to subscribe to the show notes, get into the comments for each episode, leave a question for Jason with the Apple watch or otherwise, or consider supporting the show directly and maybe even grab yourself a new TGN signed NATO. Please visit the gray NATO at gmail.com. Music throughout is of course, Siesta by Jazzar via the free music archive.
Jason And we leave you with this quote from Albert Zent Giorgi, who said, discovery consists of seeing what everybody has seen and thinking what nobody has thought.