The Grey NATO – 203 – Mike Pearson (Zodiac) And Wesley Smith (Standard H) From Windup Chicago

Published on Thu, 04 Aug 2022 05:44:43 -0400

Synopsis

This episode features two interviews from the Wind Up Chicago watch fair. The first is with Mike Pearson, who works for Zodiac watches and was instrumental in originally connecting Jason and James. They discuss Mike's background in the watch industry, his passion for watches and storytelling, and his excitement for his new role at Zodiac. The second interview is with Wesley Smith, founder of the apparel brand Standard H. They talk about the origins of his brand, his podcast focused on entrepreneurship, his automotive and watch interests, and his plans to expand Standard H's product line.

Links

• episode page
• episode MP3
• episode webpage snapshot
• episode MP3 - local mirror

Transcript

Speaker
Jason Heaton	Hello, and welcome to another episode of the Graynado, a loose discussion of travel, adventure, diving, driving gear, and most certainly watches this episode 203. And it's proudly brought to you by the ever growing TGN supporter crew. We thank you all so much for your continued support. And if you'd like to support the show directly, please visit thegraynado.com for more details. Jason, how we doing?
James	I'm doing pretty well. It's, uh, it's a rare evening recording session for us here. Um, you're, you're just back from a long travel day and, uh, yeah, it's, uh, it's pushing, well, it's seven o'clock here, eight o'clock your time in the evening. So I don't know if this, this episode will take on a different tone, but, uh, at least the main topic was, was kind of prerecorded. So we'll, we'll see how the intro and outro go for us.
Jason Heaton	Yeah, this is the third of our four-piece wind-up Chicago chat. So we've got Mike Pearson and Wesley Smith on. Two separate chats, one with Mike Pearson and another with Wesley. Mike works for Zodiac now, but is largely the guy that connected Jason and I. And then Wesley Smith is the fellow that founded Standard H, makes some great t-shirts, and is really just a lovely dude to sit and chat with. Yeah. So that's going to come up in a few minutes here. I'm fresh back from eight days on the West Coast for a Hodinkee project. Uh, some of which has made it to social media at this point. I'm going to save it for a longer thing that can wrap once people see the project. I think that's when I would talk more in depth about it. Uh, but we're out there just filming a ton of stuff and it went for a long, long time. And there were some pretty, pretty long days in there as well. It was amazing to see some old friends in LA. We drove on a dry Lake bed, drove a Range Rover on El Mirage, which is pretty cool. attempted to go diving in Monterey at Monastery beach. And unfortunately, due to the quality of the rental gear kind of went through a significant amount of headache with the weights and the rest of it. And then got in the water, got all the way out there. And at depth, I couldn't keep the mask on my face. So it was, uh, it didn't work out. It didn't work out for me, but, uh, Cole had a lovely dive with a few folks, including Asha Wagner, uh, such a treat to meet her in person. Uh, you know, core TGM, uh, friend of ours and, uh, and yeah, and get to hang out with her and have a beer afterwards and the whole sort of thing. It was, uh, it was awesome. So, uh, Asha, if you're listening, thank you so much for the hospitality in, uh, Carmel and Monterey. And, uh, hopefully we cross paths soon. I definitely, uh, owe you a dive that I actually, you know, come on. After that, I lost my wallet. So that's been super fun, really great experience. Um, and then I, I literally, I got home four hours ago. So yeah, just, uh, just getting into this, uh, to make sure we stick on schedule. Uh, but yeah, it's been, it's been kind of a crazy weekend and once I know what actually makes it into the video, there'll be, there'll be more to talk about, uh, about it. And certainly I think we have Cole on to chit chat about it as well, but it was, um, it was fun. It was nice to, nice to be out and about and, and see parts of, uh, California I've never seen before. Big Sur and, uh, the one and that sort of thing.
James	Yeah. You were up and down the whole, the whole length of the state. I mean, it's such, it's such a vast, state with so many kind of different individual cultures and ecosystems there. And, uh, yeah, I mean, it seemed like you were gone for so long. Every time I would kind of pop in and communicate with you about how our, uh, kind of shop launch was going, it was like, well, where are you today? And you were just, you were, you were everywhere. So yeah. Good to have you back home.
Jason Heaton	Yeah. We, we, we got around for sure. Yeah. Um, and, and speaking of how, how did the shop launch go?
James	Shop launch went really smoothly. I mean, it's been a busy week. Uh, Ghoshani and I have been busy, you know, packing and shipping and, and, you know, kind of, uh, doing various FedEx runs. We, we kind of started out doing them in the back of the defender, like literally chock full of, you know, hundreds of packages. And now we're down to kind of daily bicycle FedEx runs with, you know, a dozen dozen shipments. So, um, it's, uh, it's kind of down to more of a manageable trickle, but boy, it was hot and heavy for the first couple of days. And I was just so pleased how. How people received the merchandise that we were selling at the Chicago wind up and and so excited. I mean, people are already getting them and posting pictures and it's been great to see where the kerchiefs are popping up. Someone, you know, had their kid hold one up on kind of a mountainside somewhere. And yeah, it's just it's been really cool, really, really going well. So thanks to everybody for for the response and being so understanding. And certainly if you have any any problems, issues, questions as you're Packages are arriving or not arriving. Uh, if that, if that's the case, uh, unfortunately I haven't had much of that. Um, do get in touch at thegranadoatgmail.com and we'll get you sorted out.
Jason Heaton	Yeah. And if you, if you didn't catch the last episode where we kind of gave the breakdown of this, it's, um, it's a bundle of merch offered in, in, I mean, you get to pick the size of the t-shirt, but otherwise it's a fixed bundle and it's a t-shirt, a gray t-shirt with a logo on it. On the on the left chest, one inch enamel pin, a square three by three sticker with our slogan or kind of statement at the top of the show. And of course, the Cantonment kerchief set, which is a two kerchiefs and one of which being the TGN adventure flag. So if that's something you're keen on, visit thegranado.com slash shop to take a look. And Jason, am I accurate in saying inventory is a little low for medium and large, but other sizes are still looking okay.
James	Yeah, I mean, as predicted, I guess medium and large are the popular sizes. We didn't order as many smalls and two XLs, and there are a handful of each left. But strangely enough, you know, it's been an interesting kind of demographic study of the TGN audience. I thought more XLs would go, but we've got a fair number of XLs. So if you're a size extra large t-shirt, you're in luck. We've got a lot of those left, but we're getting down there for medium and large. I don't remember the last count, but it's, you know, it's getting down there, so don't Don't delay, um, get your order in if you're interested in getting some of this stuff. I think the, the kerchiefs are kind of the super unique part of the kit and, and, uh, right. And we've got plenty of those left.
Jason Heaton	So, um, yeah. Yeah. I would expect that we'll do another bundle at some point in the future. It just may or may not have the kerchiefs there. They were kind of a fixed thing that took a bunch of time and in hat had a very set kind of production number. Yeah. And, uh, I really, really like them. So if you're, if it's something that you, you feel like you'd want to get in on, uh, now, now it would be the chance for you. Definitely. Let's see. We got a little bit of housekeeping to get through. Uh, first off, uh, Q and a, I know it's late. We're recording this on the second, it goes up on the fourth. I'll be recording a Q and a next week. Uh, when I'm back in, in full pace after this trip and, uh, in a little bit of, um, time off I have this week, the Q and a will come out next week, probably Tuesday, Wednesday, something like that. Oh, the other one, uh, TGN is taking a summer break. So, uh, there will be no new episodes on the 18th or the 25th of August. So you've got an episode on the 4th and, uh, one the following Thursday, and then we're going to take two weeks off and then come back September 1st with a really cool extra special episode that has a time peg. Uh, and, and if you're into some of our most popular shows of the past, I think that you'll, you'll really enjoy this one.
James	Yeah, we've been sitting on that one for, uh, for, it'll be a couple of months by the time it goes up and, uh, Yeah. I'm excited for that one.
Jason Heaton	All right. Anything else new?
James	I don't think so. I mean, it's, it's hot here and, and, you know, I've just been kind of hunkered down in the basement packing and shipping. And, uh, tonight I managed to sneak off. I do this weekly, uh, kind of open water swim across the lake. And I felt, I felt like it, you know, on a good hot day today would be a great day for it, but it turns out it was like these really gusty South winds. There were white caps on the lake and it was, it was hard going. I mean, it was really a tough day. So I'm, I'm pretty wiped out. It felt good, cooled me off a bit and yeah, it's always good to get in the water.
Jason Heaton	We'll see if Final Notes gets kind of wacky or just kind of low energy.
James	Right, right. You took a couple of watches to California. You had the Citizen and the Seiko GMT. Before we get into what you're wearing now, any teasers on what was the more popular of the two or which one you enjoyed more?
Jason Heaton	Oh, I, yeah, I wore them both. I mean, I actually, because the, the, the story, the, the video series has kind of a U S peg and an American culture connection. Uh, I wore that, that Bulova I bought at the garage sale. I was, I was hoping I would have my grandfather's Bulova backed by that. Uh, but it's still in service. And, um, and so I took this one. So, but yeah, I had the, I had the, the Aqualand, the new SSK 003, the boulevard. And then I also took a, um, the garment mark too. Cause for the dive, right. And man, is that cool on a dive? I was playing with it. Um, kind of splashed around in the water before I got going. And then during the dive, super easy to use such a nice size, uh, even on the stock strap, I forgot the little extension of course. Um, and it's still got over a seven mil. Uh, yeah, I'm, I, what a great product. Those are that descent mark two S the smaller one. Yeah. Really, really killer. For my wrist check this week, I'm going to go Seiko 5. I've been wearing it a ton. The AquaLand is still getting a ton of wrist time, but they're two totally different takes on a dive watch or the dive watch aesthetic. Obviously, the SSK is a travel watch, but the more I wear the SSK, the more I think I'm liking it even more than I expected. I think it's an easy watch to love on paper because of what it offers and the price point. a few of the refinements, um, you know, solid end links, drilled lugs, stuff like that. Right. Um, but I'm really starting to enjoy like the simplicity of the, of the actual functionality. Um, it's, it's super easy to change the, uh, the time, the second time zone, the red hand. Yeah. You don't have to take the watch off your wrist. Uh, I really enjoy the, the slightly purplish color of the dial in sunlight, like in warmer light sunset, that sort of thing. Uh, yep. It was a, it was a great watch to have when I, when I was three hours outside of my home time zone. Um, and we didn't cross any times on, it was a North South sort of trip, but, uh, it's still just kind of a perfect, a perfect thing. And it's a real treat when you're kind of explaining what you do to people who maybe don't understand this job. And, and then the watch on your wrist is like kind of easily understood as, as kind of nicely featured and feels good in the hand. And it's also like not crazy expensive. Right. Uh, so yeah, no, it, it hits really well and I've, I've been enjoying it.
James	Oh, cool. Yeah. Yeah. I enjoyed seeing that in person in Chicago. And, uh, were you wearing it on the bracelet or do you have it still on the NATO?
Jason Heaton	Still on the bracelet. Yeah. I took, I took your tip and, uh, and I've been wearing it a ton on the bracelet and it's like a different vibe for me. Um, you know, probably the last time I wore was Seiko on a bracelet for any extended period of time would have been way, way back when I got my SKX or my first monster. Uh, and this is a better, this is a significantly nicer bracelet than what's on an SKX on a double Oh seven. So that's a plus.
James	Speaking of which, um, I, I dusted off, uh, my Seiko SKX, um, on the bracelet on this, I guess it's a Jubilee style bracelet that, that came on this watch. And, uh, you're right. I mean, the bracelet on that, on that Seiko five that you have is just leaps and bounds better than this one. This is, this is the classic old Seiko rattly bracelet. I mean, you know, you can almost hear it in the microphone here. If I jingle my wrist, it's, it's, uh, But it's fun, you know, I had this watch kind of put away I hadn't worn it in a long time and the bracelet was sized for Gashani's wrist and she didn't wear it that way much and so this watch was sort of gathering dust and then I pulled it out the other day and there's something about like summer when when you've got a little bit of a tan going and like it's hot and I don't know something about like a steel watch like an SKX on a bracelet kind of just feels right and So that's what I've been, I'm kind of wearing it off and on for the past few days. And it just looks good that the red and the blue bezel just kind of have a real crisp aesthetic and then the bracelet's really comfy. So yeah, we're, we're kind of got a similar vibe going tonight, I guess.
Jason Heaton	Deep Seiko for sure. I love it. Right. Well, you want to get into the main topic then? Yeah, let's do it. So the first chat you're going to hear is with Mike Pearson, who's now with Zodiac. When I met Mike, he was with Braemont and, uh, and he's worked for a handful of brands in and out of the watch world. Really, this is just kind of a long time coming. We talked about having Mike on episode 200, right, Jason?
James	Right. Yeah. And it just didn't work out because of his pending move to the U.S. and now he's back. So I'm glad we were able to fit this in.
Jason Heaton	Yeah, absolutely. So, you know, Mike is the guy that connected Jason and I years ago and in some ways was kind of the connective tissue for making sure that we met each other and what would lead to a TGN. And he's also just a guy that we both love. He loves watches. He's amazing with people. And I think you guys will love this chat. So without delaying the process any further, here's Mike Pearson of Zodiac and Our Friendship fame. All right, Mr. Pearson, it's a special treat to not only be sitting this close to you, but to see you have a microphone in your hand. A lot of people listening will know that you were kind of the connecting tissue between Jason and I and kicking off TGN. We didn't quite get you for 200. You're a busy guy, literally, these days. But hey, we're just a couple episodes later. Thank you so much.
Mike Pearson	It's surreal sitting here with a microphone. You say that very kindly. I think naturally you would have found each other anyway. I just saw you as the younger version of Jason, and I think he needed you as well. But it was just the case. I was at the same place that you guys were, coming to talk watches. Yeah, I'm just so glad of how it's gone and I'm just proud to know you. So well done on 200 and plus. Thank you so much.
Jason Heaton	Yeah. And so for a very quick background, cause we haven't talked about it recently, but obviously we met you when you were repping for Braymon. It was my very early days in the watch world. I think you loaned me my first luxury watch. I did like first watch over like a grand was a Braymon S500, a watch I still love.
Mike Pearson	And only because of the way you wrote back then, even as a young, younger person.
Jason Heaton	I can't read those reviews anymore.
Mike Pearson	Oh, they were brilliant. I know.
Jason Heaton	And they're still up there. I know. They stripped my name off them, but they're still up there. I know.
Mike Pearson	And I still look for them. I still use you to how to set a world timer from all the way back then, because I still don't know.
Jason Heaton	The passive world timer for sure. Very handy functionality. And you've had a few moves since then. And I think that you found a fantastic brand with Zodiac. Yeah. You know, you're the full color brand. You're back in the States.
Mike Pearson	Yeah, I'd kind of gone away from watches for a while and I was doing some consulting on the side. And you know, you do so many years in the watch industry, especially with a decade with Bremont. It was that it was my love. It was my passion. It was everything that I did. And I did it when I was a single guy as well, which is brilliant if you want to get into watches, because when you have kids and a wife, it gets very difficult to do, especially the pace I was working at. And so you kind of try and find yourself again. And like I say, you fall out of love with watches, but it was the same conversations. It was always going to be the same. And then Zodiac came along and we're asking a few very, very nice questions, but also the fact that, and I'd say if anyone was here from the company, you know, their own by fossil and Zodiac is the best of them and they know the custodians to this name and they just wanted to tie it together. So they're bringing this team together and they've asked me to be their brand director, which I think basically means doing podcasts, but, but I'm coming to brilliant events like this, but it feels great. This, It's heritage and the stories to tell. And that's what I like to do.
Jason Heaton	You always managed to find a way to not toot your own horn. There wouldn't be a Braymont in North America without you. I don't know if anyone in this room, I definitely didn't understand it when we're talking 10 years ago, but to take a new brand, a young brand that has no name recognition and put it in a case next to IWC and Breitling and across the hall from Rolex and still have them exist. And it was you and eventually a few other folks.
Mike Pearson	Yeah.
Jason Heaton	uh, your pace, your like energy has always been one infectious for me. And I always know that I can text you and I'll come out of that text message in a much better mood than when I go in.
Mike Pearson	We need it. We need a little therapy with each other.
Jason Heaton	And whenever, whenever we could be in the same place, it was always a meal or a hangout or this or that. And you're the, you're the type of guy that I should be. Cause I love cameras and taking pictures, but you take pictures like for timelines. Yeah. So every now and then you'll send me a photo of like, when we hung out in Vancouver and I actually looked like a young man who had slept at some point in his life. It's so, it's been so nice to have you as, um, as sort of a friend for so long. And obviously to know that, that you were part of the spark for, uh, for the show. And now to have you back with not only a brand, like we've loved you with Bremont obviously, and we love Bremont, but to have you with an enthusiast brand, a brand that wants to sell people watches at a place like wind up.
Mike Pearson	And the difference, I think with in the beginning with Bremont, you know, Nick and Giles says, what can you do? And I'm like, I'm not sure. Like I, I know that I went to them in Basel and I met them and I was like, you guys have got this brilliant thing. And it's great to see that it's not just Swiss. It can be the world's industry. Um, and I was with a very small brand and I asked them if, uh, they could help me get that into the UK and vice versa. One pint with Nick later, which he was late to, um, I fell in love with the brothers. Oh gosh, no, no. He was just like, I hope he's listening to this, but it was 10 years of my life after that. And it ended up being brilliant. And I, I think in those early days it's kind of set me for what is is now with Zodiac because in that time they no one knew Bremont. No one wanted to because it wasn't what was right. But my whole outlook is listen to the story. If you know it and you love it and you want to sell it great. If you know it and you don't want to sell it at least you know it. Yeah. And I was a bit like the vampire. I would never cross your door unless you invited me in because when I was through that I would give you everything. Yeah. And with Zodiac with that consulting side they they made me drink the Kool-Aid but there's 140 years of history. And even today, someone would come up to the booth and the stand here in Worn and Wound, and they have their little snippets of what they think Zodiac is. And I think that's brilliant, because it means I've got that built within me in telling a story, and not just to sell them on it, but educate. Because if you, especially this crowd, if you find something that resonates with you, be it from the past or see where they're going in the future, you buy into it. And so that's what I've done, and that's why I'm giving it everything that I can.
James	I think the thing about Zodiac that has always struck me is that I think even going back to their history, at least to the sixties, which is about as far back as I know of the brand from is the, um, they have always been kind of an enthusiast brand. They've always been an accessible brand that makes good quality watches, but a brand that, you know, you'd get soldiers buying them at the PX or, or, you know, at a store because it was a reliable watch that they could wear. And it was kind of the, um, they were there from the beginning in the dive watch space, but like they became the watch that like divers wanted to buy, not for prestige, but because they worked and they were affordable. And I feel like they still carry that sort of spirit forward now. But now you guys have gone in this direction where, you know, you're playing with color and all this sort of stuff. And in a way, I feel like you're the perfect ambassador for a brand like that because it's all about enthusiasm and you're about the most enthusiastic person I know.
Mike Pearson	It's terrible, isn't it? As you know, I came to the wind up in San Francisco. That was my first for all within Zodiac. I'd started with the brand. I was just basically seeing where I was going to live back in Dallas. And I said, can I go to San Francisco? I want to see what you guys, the crowd, what they thought of it. And so I brought, I just picked up about six of the vintage watches and I put it next to the new stuff just to tie it together. And people ran to the table because they want it to work. There's so many brands that might get reissued or rechanged or come back. But this brand's been around for 140 years. And for the majority of its time, it was family owned. And like most big brands in the 80s and 90s, it was mishandled and Voss will know what they've got and they're bringing it back. But like I said, to tie it together is great. But the enthusiasm I've got within myself it kind of has to matter because people care about it. And so that, I think that's probably why I feel like I do. I feel like I did 10 years ago, obviously with a lot sore of a back and really bad Achilles, but apart for Anna liver, but that's not bring the liver into this. Definitely don't. But definitely when it comes to what the, the, the crowd or the watch industry wants from Zodiac, I think that we know what we want it to be. And people do know it as color, but we've always done a little bit. But what I've tried to do in the last six months with the brand is for people to see the core. And I mean, I sent you a skin dive just to see it. And you know, there's a lot of iterations that you might see, and you might not even realize it, that 70% of what's built is in house. And what people might not even know on top of that, that we only make 6,000 watches. So we are still niche. We are still small and we're in wind up for a reason is because we can't be everywhere. So we have to be loud and proud and enthusiastic, but more than anything to do it with the mindset that we are custodians to a really important name.
Jason Heaton	And you were talking about the past 10 years, and it's kind of an interesting thing for me because I started with Zodiac a long time ago. When I first got into watches, I bought several Sea Dragon Quartz, you know, that 70s one. It was kind of this chunky case. They were like maybe 44. I haven't thought about this watch in a while. And for me, that was like a starting point. That was early in my days of watches. Before I was writing about watches, I was just kind of buying and selling Orients and inexpensive Seikos. And I was like, man, this is like big and it's a chronograph and it's got this like 70s feel to it. There's some color. reds and greens and whites and that kind of stuff. I saw one yesterday. Yeah. They're cool. They're really cool. And, uh, and now it really feels like I didn't think about the brand for a few years and then they pop back up with like a pretty concise idea of where they were headed. And now in the last couple of years, it's been a little while since I, I was hands on with, or, you know, right in front of the product, it feels really refined.
Mike Pearson	Yeah. Well, I think what, what Zodiac did in terms of that first time we've had it in 2001 is in the fossil group and they came out with some of those bigger, chunky, colorful watches. And they did what Fossil did. They took color and fashion and they had this lovely name. And I think to its credit, they pulled it back to a point where they listened to people like yourselves or to Zach or the guys over at Hidinki. And they were like, what, what's the best of Zodiac? And they looked to the fifties and the sixties. And so they came out with really great designs. And it was in Basel, I think 2018, they did the golf colorway and they made 82 of them and it sold in a second. And then it was limited editions from, people like Worn and Wound and Hidinki, and they wanted to go back and find their own pieces that they loved. The thing that was brilliant with that, it built this buzz up, it built this momentum, but we didn't build any of the amount of watches that would help the core. So it was all limited, all colors, and that's what people have known. But the last year we've concentrated the core, and now the next 18 months can really push forward. So we can open more retailers, we can be out there more, and obviously we can tell more stories. It's not just color, but we can celebrate that. And there's some Brilliant, brilliant materials. I mean, you saw the titanium that's out now. And later this year, we've got another case material, more dial materials. And so with that, we can have fun and then we'll start to drop in modern interpretations of what was from the past, maybe smaller, thinner, more delicate that suited to different styles. And so we won't be bored with this brand. And so for all of the support you give and you've given me personally and the enthusiasts, I think we won't try and let you down.
Jason Heaton	Well, I mean, you know, you mentioned personal and, and, and I think I'm curious to know, and even just to just have the convo, like what, what is your background? Like in watch enthusiasm? What's your, how did you find a taste for watches?
Mike Pearson	Um, so I had a really bad car crash in, uh, early 2001. Um, it was on new year's day. Someone went through a red light, hit me while I was going through a green light and I came out the window and I landed very luckily it wasn't too badly damaged, but it was a point of like, shake you up, go do something. Cause I was going to be teacher for kids. That's what I always wanted to be. Um, and so I, I would be a fun, fun class for sure. Kids that leave and go, stop talking, man. I'm so tired. I don't want to play anymore. But, um, so I actually had a friend who worked on a cruise ship and she said, you should do it. And so I thought I'd get some experience for kids. I was only young, like 20, 21. And I went to the interview, and I was still beaten up. I was bruised up. And they said, no, you need to be with the adults and entertain them. So I did that. I lied through the medical. I had a broken clavicle. I bit through my tongue. Thankfully, it didn't come off, or unthankfully for a lot of people listening to me. My ear was hanging off. It was a very weird time. But I got the job. And I went on a cruise ship. And I did it for a few years. And a few years in, I met a girl. And to stay with her, I changed the job to a, it's called a shopping guide. And they tell you where to shop ashore. And they sold awful stuff like t-shirts and trinkets and where to get your hair braided, but there were diamonds and jewelry and watches. And I didn't care about anything else but watches. So I became that watch guy and I knew nothing. Someone said, what's that movement? I said, I have no idea. It's Le Jouperie. I had no idea how to spell it, let alone say it. But the story started to get to me. And so it was really that. And I found all these different enthusiasts. And this was like 2005, well, way before any of this craziness started on social media. but you saw what was on their wrist and you'd find military older guys or young kids with their first watches. And it meant something and it ended up meaning something to me. And that really is it. So moved to America in 2007 with a small brand called Ernst Benz, loved it. But that was when the crash happened in 08. And so at that point, no one wanted to buy a watch. No one wanted to build a brand. And we did it because I had nothing else to do. The relationship wasn't good, but the watches stayed and we just pushed through. And then that ended up being just my life. And so that, very, very strong, hard way of learning to sell through a tough time economically. It was just all stories. And they like what Chase just said before, there's always going to be an enthusiasm. There's always going to be a little money and if you can't spend it, don't, but if you can and you want to, you can. And it was just people like myself to make them feel like they're investing in us. So it really is just pure enthusiasm and energy, but you have to celebrate the people. I mean, I've had times where someone would say on an Instagram post, that guy maybe doesn't represent luxury. I'm like, What are you talking about? He might have a really bad fanny pack on and a jean shorts and a beer gut, but he had a black Amex and he loved that watch. Celebrate that guy. And I love that. There's this so many shapes and sizes of watches to fit every one of us for sure. And my little part of it hopefully means something.
James	I think, I think we, one thing that has always struck me in our interactions and we've, we've spent a lot of time at, at enthusiast gatherings in various cities around the world over the years. And, and I think that approachability that you, you offer, but also that you, you open things up to like, as you said, you know, anybody and everybody, as long as there's that enthusiasm. And I kind of feel like that happens in this building during windup. But I think that's, that's a strength of yours is this, is this approachability of like, I don't make any judgments. We're all here to celebrate these quirky things. We're all going to be nerds together.
Mike Pearson	Yeah. We are nerds. And people will come up to me and say, Oh, what are you wearing? He goes, Oh, sorry. I'm just where you apologizing for. If it's a $20 watch or a million dollar watch, you wear it for a reason. I want to see it. Let's have a chat about it. It should be enthusiastic, but we've had some, bloody brilliant times.
James	I can't thank you enough for the good stuff. Hiking in Henley and kayaking in Minneapolis and watching my soccer team and making you wear a jersey, which is hilarious.
Mike Pearson	You think about Jason Heaton and the gray native. He's like dives with drives and gears and all that stuff. I put an Aston Villa Jersey on that man. It was surreal and I loved it. Talk about a tribe.
James	That was so fun. Yeah. Oh man, that was great. I've always been struck. You have to have a secret to your stamina and your ability to, you just always bored. We'll go out and we'll, we'll go to like a soccer match and you know, have, way too many beers and whatever. And it'll be a late night. I'll be like, you know, bid you good night, whatever. And I'll wake up in the morning. I'll look on Instagram and there you are. I went for a run this morning.
Mike Pearson	It's so annoying. It's just some people just have that extra energy. And I know my wife is brilliant because all this energy I've done in the watch industry. And I was like, let's do this. When we started dating, let's go here. And she said, can we just sit down and watch TV? And I passed out for 13 hours. So she's, she's the yin to my yang. She pulled me back in the nicest way. And it also made you reassess, which is why, you know, you have some change over the last few years. You know, you were one thing for the longest time and now there's a bigger part of you with family and kids and dogs. That's part of my social as well because it's hand in hand and it kind of resonated me really, really strongly a few weeks ago. I did a podcast and a guy got in contact with me from Denmark and he goes, my dad was the Zodiac distributor for Denmark for 30 years and I love it and I want to tell you the story and show you the collection. I've got tingles now just thinking about it because He showed me all of his dad's watches. He talked about all the travels he's been on. He showed me pictures of his dad with the Calumet family in the lock, you know, and these are things that we'd never known, but in a weird way, it's how I felt about me with Nick and Giles and my kids seeing them at air shows. And we live these brands. It's more than just selling. It's, uh, it's, it's our lives. So yeah, it's a pleasure to, to talk about it, but also we get to do it now in these new, exciting ways with social media. But the enthusiasm that I have for, for life, I do also know when to stop, but usually it's a big pass out on the couch.
Jason Heaton	I've never, you know, I've known you for so long and I'm never sure if your heart rate is very high all the time or it's low all the time. I'm just pink. It's like the energy thing. Like for me to have that much energy, I have to be kind of amped up and I can only do that for so long before it feels like the ticker is going to explode.
Mike Pearson	I remember when I was a kid, uh, I came on, I was 16 years old. I played soccer. I came on, I scored two goals. I was ready. I'm even North American. I'm here for you. I'm here, but my manager pulled me off. I said, what are you doing a month for a hat trick? And he goes, you look like you're about to die because I'm so red. And it's just, you know, I've just, I've just got it, but I'm just, my, my skin's made of rice paper, but the enthusiasm and the heart rate and the blood pressure are damn good.
James	So you're, um, you're back in the U S as of just a week ago. You've moved back from the UK. Um, And we talked with Chase about Land Rovers and you've, you've made a wonderful purchase before you left the UK and it's on its way. Right. Now tell us about that.
Mike Pearson	Yeah. So, um, we, Zodiac asked me to move back to the U S uh, my wife brilliantly, she wanted to come, she did a year in the UK after COVID and I'm still a little bit homesick about it, but I wanted to bring something from home. So about, uh, six months ago I bought a Land Rover Defender, uh, 96 TDI brilliant. And it used to be an ambulance. in graciously said, would you like to bring your vehicle? I'm like, hell yeah. Do I want to bring my car? So if you ever see a bright blue, uh, 1998 Defender in the middle of Texas, broken down, that's me.
Jason Heaton	It's just stopping off for a ride.
Mike Pearson	But it's so good. It's got, I mean, it's clean, it's tidy. It's as basic as it comes. And I think that's good.
James	With air conditioning though.
Mike Pearson	No, I've just got the vents. So I thought you were going to get AC for Texas. No, I thought about doing some, but it would have ruined it. So, I mean, it's got a, I put a radio in it.
James	Yeah.
Mike Pearson	That's about it. So I can listen to my podcasts. Yeah. That's what we do. Right. Of course. Uh, but no, it's, it's really good. And I mean, you'll be able to hear that radio. No, it's got a great sound system. I promise. But it's coming in about three weeks time. And then my stuff comes in about four weeks after that. So we're living off of blow up mattresses. And as soon as I get my car, it won't matter. I've got that. But, um, that's one thing you've, you've had it for a few years. This is going to be my next bit where I can learn something for the years and years it's been learning about selling brands and watches and building brands. Now we had kids. Now I want to be this guy.
James	In your role, moving back to the U.S., it's obviously closer to Fossil Headquarters and that. But are you going to be international focused or strictly North America?
Mike Pearson	Yeah. So I'm the international brand director, which means everywhere. But because we only make such a small amount, the focus will be the U.S. and the U.K. We've got a couple of retailers in Holland and Sweden. And Singapore's got a big one. And then, but I think that we should, you know, grow properly, but I want to go to Australia and Canada's coming. We have three or four different good meetings in Las Vegas recently, but we, we don't want to let anybody down. The tough thing with these smaller brands and you know, you see it in some of the brands that are wind up is that you can have the ability to sell yourself and do really good business. But with a brand like us, we need retail. We need tactility and we, but we also don't want to let her retail it. We've, we've come and gone a few times because a retailer say, I want this watch and we can't, can't get it back in stock, which is why I've built the core for what it is. So now we've got that we've, we've opened up about 10 stores, uh, in the U S that will come throughout the rest of this year. And then we can grow appropriately next year. And if you ever get to come to Dallas, we'll show you how it's all designed, but the real work is happening in, in Switzerland. And that's with, um, where we're built in Antima and the movement house. So right now, like I said, a lot of it are all three handlers for the STP one dash 11. We will then bring in the GMT next year, which will be STP. We've got a, I'll tell you, no, there's going to be a chronograph next year. but that will be a bought movement. But then if we do well with that, we can develop STP for future, for future movements. It's a really appropriate build and we are owned by a massive company, but they treat us really well and it's, it's stand out to itself. But they also know you've got to have a kid with kid gloves. Cause if you, if you drop it again, no one wants to pick it up. So we're going to try and do it right now.
Jason Heaton	And for folks who haven't been on the website or whatever, what's the price range?
Mike Pearson	We start at $8.95 with an in-house movement with our Olympus watch. Uh, the majority of our, Watches don't really go over $1,500. This is titanium. It's $2,400. That's limited edition. We want to stay under $2,000, I think. You might see some things pop up every now and then, but everything that's coming out this year and next, I was under $2,000 apart from one model. So that's, I mean, it's a great place to be. We know that there's some wonderful competition, but I don't think we're competing. I think we're trying to, you know, accentuate something, but we've got this heritage, which is unlike anything at that price point. Um, but that also means we've got to find our way into stores and to people's hearts and minds, but don't break anybody's pocketbook. We could be somebody's first watch. Sure. We could be somebody, you know, we bought that new white and blue one out. That's pure summer. And if you've got the ability, yeah.
Jason Heaton	For those of you in the room, check that one out.
Mike Pearson	If you haven't swung by, it's really good. It's a good looking watch, but it's, it's all, it's all just style, isn't it? So if you've got the ability to hit the Lake in Michigan or Chicago, throw that watch on and it won't ruin you. So yeah.
Jason Heaton	You know, I'm curious when you when you do finally sit down with with your wife or whatever, what do you listen to? What are you watching? What do you read? And give it give a suggestion out there, because we've always we've had these chats in the past.
Mike Pearson	Yeah, I mean, through covid, it was we went back and started to do some things again. So we went through all of the geeky stuff. We did all of Game of Thrones. We did we did all of the Marvel movies. We and then we threw some things in there just for me, which are more British dramas, which I love. But when it when we work out or when I work out or I ride my bike, I am a podcaster. I listen to just about all the watch podcasts that I can and the movie podcast that I love. Um, but it's, it's not as deep as that and that I'd like it to be, but for more than anything, it's just something that recharges me. Uh, and that's me learning. Um, it's, you know, quietly reflecting within my ears and no one needs to have anything like that. Cause as soon as he, the earbuds are out and I'm off the bike, there's a kid asking me for something or a dog needing me to take him for a walk or I'm hitting the road again. All the good stuff. Yeah. So it's, it is simple. Um, I wish I could read more books, which I'll, I'll try to in the future. But right now it's just basically just keeping that balance. So the enthusiasm stays, but then I can decompress.
Jason Heaton	What's your favorite recent for the British dramas?
Mike Pearson	I actually just watched All of Line of Duty again, if you could watch that. It's a really, really good one. And then we watched The Fall with Gillian Anderson, which might be the nastiest bad guy in all of bad guys.
Jason Heaton	If you're not big on home invasions, skip that one.
Mike Pearson	It's a scary show. And it's got that Northern Irish and the little kids saying, Daddy. That's in my dreams now. But it's, yeah, we, we, we, my wife's good with that. She goes back to the British stuff. She likes it. And during the summer we, we watched the great British bake off and we just get, you know, we go nice and cheesy.
Jason Heaton	Well, we we've raved extensively about slow horses.
Mike Pearson	Oh yeah. I haven't gotten to the book yet, but it's on the stack.
Jason Heaton	Jason keeps my stack way deeper than I can read, but the show is incredible.
Mike Pearson	I've got to get it. The next one I want is on Amazon with Chris Pratt. Terminalist. Yeah, I've got to see that. I turn it on for three minutes. My wife said it's too violent, so I've got to watch it by myself.
Jason Heaton	It's exceedingly violent, and it meanders. But it's also eight, like, 70-minute episodes.
Mike Pearson	Yeah, that's what I'm into. It goes. Yeah. That's a plain one. But I like a big screen on that. But like I said, I've got no furniture or TV, so that'll wait.
Jason Heaton	I watched it on the laptop. It didn't bother me too much, but I enjoyed it.
James	And last night, you were up late to catch your home team.
Mike Pearson	Yeah, they're in Australia. Did they win? They did win, yeah. Had a couple of siders. Congratulations. Can I also just say it's been a pleasure knowing you, but also honestly what you've done for the industry and for me and how you educate us. Being in the industry or sitting on the chairs out there, you add so much. I just wanted to say thank you.
Jason Heaton	Thanks, Mike. It means the world. Thanks so much for coming on, dude. It's overdue. Yeah, way too long. Super fun. And what an absolute, a literal, I say this every time I finish every chat, what a treat, but literally what a treat to get to see you in person. It's been, it's been a while.
Mike Pearson	Well, good luck for the future and we'll keep doing what we're doing.
Jason Heaton	Absolutely.
Mike Pearson	Thanks, everyone.
James	All right. That was great. Thanks, Mike, again, for coming on TGN and sitting in on that chat with us in Chicago. It already seems like ages ago when we got to chat with him, although I still, you know, exchange messages with Mike several times a week. And he's just been such a good friend to both of us. And I think as a brand, Zodiac could could scarcely do better than Mike Pearson in the role that he's got now is kind of the brand manager. He's just he's so enthusiastic. He's such a committed person to to what he does. And it's so so fun to see his enthusiasm for the brand. And I wish him we both wish him all the best at Zodiac. All right. And moving on, we're going to talk to another really friendly, committed, enthusiastic guy that we're both really good friends with, Wesley Smith of Standard H. And You know, Wesley just, uh, he just, he kind of has this brightness to him whenever you talk to him as does Mike. Um, every time, you know, Wesley's sends me a message or I get a chance to chat with him. I, it always brings a smile to my face and we got to see him in Chicago and, uh, he was the same way in person. You know, Wesley's a kind of a difficult guy to peg. He's a podcaster, he's a clothing designer, runs his own brand standard age. We're both big fans of the shirts and he's got a lot of cool stuff coming up, uh, which he, uh, He'll talk about a little bit here as well as kind of his background and where he's taking Standard H. So without further ado, here is Wesley Smith. All right, Wesley, Standard H, you're here with us. Old friend of both of ours, and we've crossed paths all over the place, both on your podcast and just over social media and emails and that sort of thing. And we love your stuff, but it's great to have you on TGN.
Wesley Smith	Yeah, it's unreal, guys. First of all, thanks for having me. Great to see you in person. So nice. Yeah, you and I, that's true. James, we've met a couple of times. Yeah, but yeah, it's phenomenal. The wind-up watch fair has been insane as my first watch fair as a brand. Meeting people has been nice.
James	I'm curious what brought you to a watch fair? I mean, where was that overlap?
Wesley Smith	Hopefully to sell some stuff. Yeah, I think it's primarily, you know, sales motivated, but more importantly, just exposure. And you know, as I've told many a customer and prospective client that really it's my podcast is really the reason why I'm here is it was really all about entrepreneurship and the people growing companies and these overlapping interests of cars and watches and such that would come up topically on my show. But really those watch focused and watch centric, you know, personalities on my show seemingly did better from a listenership than all the other types of content. So I was like, well, if this is what you people want, then this is what you people will get. You know what I mean? And it's enjoyable for me because I'm, I'm kind of a solo watch guy in San Diego to a certain degree. You know, it can be lonely at times down and down there. But, uh, and my wife doesn't want to talk about it. So, you know, it's one of those things where doing the podcast has been extremely gratifying and then getting to know the worn and wound guys. And they were gracious enough to host me on their show. And they were like, you should come to the windup. You know, I was like, why not? Took a punt and here I am.
James	Yeah. And I guess we should rewind a little bit for people that might not be that familiar with standard age. Like what was the genesis of it and what came first in a podcast? I know you were in the apparel business years ago.
Wesley Smith	Four years. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So over 20 years of retail management and sales, primarily in apparel specifically, there's a blip on the radar where I sold Audis and Porsches like 15 years ago. So that was cool. Always wanted to own my own apparel brand since high school. Why? Couldn't begin to tell you why, but, um, love the Ralph Lauren's of the world, the whole lifestyle and kind of the merchandising aspect and kind of blending worlds and creating these sort of fantasy worlds and such. Um, and yeah, just as a result of work for James purse, which is a high end kind of cotton made in the USA type of brand. So that was like a PhD in cotton t-shirts as far as I'm concerned. So, It was a good jump off point for me to start my brand. Actually, I launched with a hat. And that was all because I came up with this logo. Following a lunch break, I was one of the managers at the Gucci boutique in San Diego. And I wanted to buy a Volkswagen van and gut it and create a mobile store so that I could throw my surfboard on the roof, go surf and then sling t shirts in the parking lot. It was in the research of the van that I found the shift gate pattern. I was like, Oh, that's cool. These things shift on a standard H. And I was like, wait a minute. I don't think there's a brand called standard H. So my next Google search was like for the URL to see if it were available. I'm standard hyphen H.com only due to the fact that standard hydrogen corporation has standard H.com, which I've reached out to and they will not reply to my emails. But as you know, as, as you do, I guess, um, But yeah, so launch for the hat did some logo t shirts and then launched what's called cut and so where it's my fabric, my silhouette and all the details that you guys have been lovely to adopt into your wardrobe.
Jason Heaton	You were big fans.
Wesley Smith	It's easy product to like for sure. Yeah, thanks.
Jason Heaton	You know, I'm a big sucker for a really like a great t shirt. Obviously very casual sort of dress normally, but also just stuff that's not overly branded. Yes, I like I like that I can tell it's one of your shirts when I'm pulling it out of the dryer or like out of the out of the wash. And I don't dry machine dry my T-shirts. I don't either. Yeah. It ruins them. But I just I just like that. And it feels like you're buying something specific, which I like a lot. You know, in my world, like you can just get a stack of white T-shirts if you're not too worried about it. And they work great. Right. But as soon as you get to a certain point, I'm a big sucker for a pocket tee. And I've got your long sleeve, super light sweatshirt on. I'm pretty thrilled with it. So comfortable. Thanks. But yeah, I'm curious where you... So is the car thing the kind of oldest passion?
Wesley Smith	Yeah, prior... I've been kind of into watches probably... I had a fashion and lifestyle blog in the late aughts and that's where I stumbled upon Hodinkee and started to kind of repost what Ben was writing. And I had like a Victorinox Swiss Army watch that I got as my high school graduation gift and loved that. You know, when I first moved to LA, uh, in 2007, I was walking up Rodeo drive and you'd stumble into these like crazy expensive stores. And I stumbled into IWC and that's why that just totally became like my first love as far as like, I say watches that involve prices with a comma. And so yeah, just fell in love with the IWC just, and then it was just the whole dinkies and the deep dives of reading you guys work and you know, all the rest of that. And, um, But yeah, to answer your question, I liked cars way before I even knew about horology or anything like that. Cause I didn't grow up in a family where they were watch guys. Like my dad owned a watch, but like we were into like the, like Timex Ironmans and stuff when I was in middle school as, as most people did in like the early mid nineties. And, um, that's kind of, yeah. So it wasn't really watch focus. I was always into cars though. You know, the Ferrari poster on the wall. Sure. You know, things of that nature.
Jason Heaton	Justification for higher learning. Yeah, 100%. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
James	Exactly. Yeah. James had mentioned that the name The Grey Nado came from this idea of kind of a Grey Nado, sort of this, sort of the standard against which, you know, you can place any watch and tell what that watch is all about. And I kind of feel the same way with, strangely, with a t-shirt, a good t-shirt. It's the simplest of pieces of apparel, and yet it can really change the way, you know, the rest of your clothing looks, Tells a lot about, you know, your, your fitness, your body type, all that sort of stuff. I mean, do you, do you feel that way as well? I mean, is that why you focus on, on kind of that type of product and you've really honed, um, very specific things about your shirts.
Wesley Smith	Yeah, I have. And thank you for noticing. I spent a ton of time on the pattern and kind of the fit as you say, and you know, as a, as a t-shirt, you're like, great, it's a t-shirt. Right. But it is like one of the most versatile pieces of clothing in your wardrobe. You could throw it on under a blazer. You could put it, you know, for layering for warmth or what have you, or it could stand alone on its own. And, uh, for me it was all about fit and fabric, right? Like that's, that's literally what you feel and how you look. And I don't know about you guys, but I like to hopefully look my best in the mirror and you know, to present myself to the world. So we're podcasters, but without a face for radio, right? So, I mean, you, you're winning. So from that perspective, It's one of those things that I spent, God knows, probably four fit samples before I got it right. And usually brands will spend one to two. So it's this obsessive over detail. It's obsessive, like this fabric doesn't fit right. That fabric that James is wearing, this lightweight sweatshirt, took a while to get the fabric right.
Jason Heaton	It's crazy comfortable.
Wesley Smith	Yeah. And I mean, if you just read the tag, it's a very common blend of 90-10 cotton poly. It, but the weight is what I needed. It was in and the 90 10 for those don't understand 90% cotton, 10% gives you that variance in the color. So Heather gray literally only occurs when there's a blend. For example, in that, I mean, I think there's techniques that you can do to a hundred percent cotton, but it's very rare. Yeah. Yeah. So just getting the visually right, getting it the tactile, right. The hand, as we call it in the industry, It all takes time and unfortunately a lot of money.
James	We've seen your existing product lines. I've seen hints of what's coming and I'm super excited about that. You mentioned your early interest in Ralph Lauren and that creating a lifestyle and developing. Do you have aspirations to move beyond your core, which is more casual wear, t-shirts, sweatshirts, what's coming, you know, turtleneck sweaters or pants or, I mean.
Wesley Smith	Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, expanding the assortment from an apparel standpoint is definitely on the to-do list. Um, I have a slew of ideas on that front. I've got a jacket coming out in the next six to eight weeks. It's called the Targa Florio jacket named for the road race in Italy. Um, it's lined with fabric that I had specially made. That is literally the pattern of the tartan inside of my GTI. Again, tying back to the automotive world. So a jacket's coming. I just released a heavyweight hoodie. People kept asking for hoodies. They're also really nice. Those are on there. So go get them. With that said, I would love to do a lot of collaborative work with maybe a leather maker. I'll just say that. And then maybe a bag or two at some point. Would love to get into those aspects as well. But I just like collaborating with those who are good at that, right? Like I know t-shirts, I know fabric, I know fit, but I've, you know, I would love to design a bag, but I myself don't know the manufacturer per se. So that's kind of yet to be determined, but... I have to connect him with Robert. Yeah.
Jason Heaton	Right? In your neck of the woods.
Wesley Smith	Okay. Mr. Spangle. Cool. Yeah. No, that sounds great. But yeah, bottoms eventually, like as far as pants and shorts go, I have a concept for shorts that I've had kicking around in my brain for quite a while. So... It's never ending.
James	And you're strictly online right now, currently through your website, right?
Wesley Smith	Yes. And well, trick question. I have one retailer in Raleigh, North Carolina. Um, shout out to unlikely professionals, uh, who have been doing very well with the product, uh, several reorders. So I'm, I'm proud, uh, you know, to say that and support Derek and support me and vice versa. So that's been awesome. And then expanding the wholesale footprint could be in the near future. Sure. We're exploring that currently as well. So things like a trade show and things like wholesale as a new business, these are all ways to grow.
James	And when I was in the kind of on the personal side, when I was in North Carolina a few weeks ago, we chatted briefly and I know you, you lived there for a while. You're, you're Southern California based. Where, where do you hail from? I always associate you with California. You have this sort of sunny, positive California disposition. I know you like to, I think you surf, right? And you're into the car culture.
Wesley Smith	Yeah. Yeah. Cars, surf, golf, ride bikes. As my wife will tell you, I have far too many hobbies. Um, I actually was born and raised in Raleigh, North Carolina. Okay. And then I just went two years of high school in Asheville. Okay. My last two years of high school. Yeah. Yeah. I moved West to the West coast. So no, um, I graduated high school, went back to Raleigh and went to NC state for college and then was in, uh, Raleigh from Oh two to Oh seven. So five more years. And then 2007 moved to Los Angeles. And then worked for James Purse for five years. He moved me to run the San Diego store. And then I just stayed.
James	Yeah. Seems to suit your lifestyle. And I mean, perfect for a t-shirt.
Wesley Smith	I can surf and play golf year round. It's incredible. You wear your product every day of the year. Yeah. Snowboarding trips happen. You know, road bikes, mountain bikes, you name it. Yeah. Yeah. What's the official age of the brand now? It's technically seven years old, actually. So it was very much a side hustle for the first five years.
Jason Heaton	You basically ramped up as COVID started.
Wesley Smith	Yeah. Yeah, exactly.
Jason Heaton	And how was that? I mean, a major scary.
Wesley Smith	Yeah. Yeah. And especially it's been a nuisance and a blessing all at the same time because like production is taken forever. And especially when you're working on a fit sample four times, it takes four times longer. So, and then production, I'm not Todd Snyder, I'm not Ralph Lawrence. So they have to squeeze my production in when they can. So there's times where like these hoodies, I've literally been working on those for five months, like literally waiting rather. So those have been in production for five months.
Jason Heaton	So that's basically you put an order in and then based on the size of that order at a manufacturing facility, they find a window where it doesn't conflict with some much larger order that they might be dealing with.
Wesley Smith	That can very well be the case. Yeah. And sometimes they're getting pushed down conceivably, conceivably, unless I just ride them like, look, I need this. I need this. I need this, which actually happened leading up to the show. I actually wanted to bring a couple other pieces, but they weren't ready. Yeah. Sounds a bit like watches. You know what, you know, there's so many similarities and like in due time it'll come out. It's all fine. Radical acceptance. You know, I try to, to convince myself of this lifestyle, but sometimes it's aggravating.
Jason Heaton	Yeah. And what's your what's your taste in watches? You've got a great Autodromo. It's the second series with the bracelet.
Wesley Smith	I love the Group B. Bradley, what he does. I think he does automotive inspired watches better than anybody. There's nothing cheesy. As a Ferrari fan, I can assure you that I do not like anything with a Ferrari logo on it. I think they've all been garbage. But I yeah, I love a Group B. You know, I love a Rolex. I had an O.P. O.D. excuse me, an O.P. no date as my wedding watch. Um, but then I love this smaller stuff. Kudoka, a big fan of Stefan Kudoka stuff. And, um, yeah, it's been fun just to kind of ebb and flow. I have a Batman that I share with my dad. So when I fly home, he puts the GMT hand on Pacific. When I have it, I have the GMT on Eastern. So we share that every time we see each other, we'll trade the watch. So that's been kind of like a really cool experience and kind of to be able to share that passion with him. It's been pretty awesome.
James	Did the podcast come first or was the podcast sort of, did you launch the podcast as a way to kind of support the apparel side of things?
Wesley Smith	Yeah, absolutely. It was more the latter. Um, so what happened was is I was just interested in starting a podcast to begin with that was primarily focused on the lives of entrepreneurs and anybody who's been instrumental in growing a company. Um, this is the first company I've ever started. So a, I thought it would be helpful for me to maybe learn a thing or two. Uh, yeah, exactly. And then, but also share it. Right. Cause like, I'm not all about gatekeeping. You can ask me any question and I'll answer it. And I would rather, if I'm learning, somebody else is bound to be able to learn as well alongside me. So I'd rather just, you know, spread the wealth and the information and, and also it serves as a, been an awesome community building exercise. So, I've met so many people either through the podcast and or through Instagram or guests who've come on through Instagram or what have you. And it's been really, really great. And, um, it's been interesting to see that grow and, and how it's affecting the business due to the watch community for sure. It's great.
James	And I think, I think the show has a, it's, it's a really refreshing one. And I think you do a really good job hosting. I think you ask good questions. I think the energy is good and you have a really interesting mix of people. I, I'd like to think that, you know, when I look around, podcast and people say, what podcast do you listen to? And I don't listen to a lot. I mean, here by the co-host one with, with James here and, um, the great NATO is sometimes hard to explain to people what we, what we talk about, what our podcast is about. But I always think like next to ours, like yours is, is kind of in a similarly eclectic and maybe a little hard to peg specifically what it is, but.
Wesley Smith	Yeah, I really appreciate it. It's been super fun. What I try to do is either interview people that I know nothing about so that like, I'm learning again and other folks may be learning as well. Or I really try to do a deep dive and learning about the person before I interview them. So I will listen to them on six different podcasts. And if I had that question in mind to ask them, I strike it off the list. You know, like I don't want to ask them the same questions because I've heard six podcasts and I've heard six questions, you know what I mean? And to me that's boring. Uh, it's already been told. within the last 18 months, you know, cause usually it's promoting something. So they're on that circuit, so to speak. Um, so for me, it's also too about like, what'd your parents do? You know, like what car was the first car you drove? Like what was the first CD you bought? Like, cause it all just kind of influences things. And a lot of times it like, God, man, you know, I haven't, like, I haven't thought about this in years, you know, it kind of evokes that kind of thing.
Jason Heaton	So it's fun. Yeah. I'm, I'm curious, you know, to, to kind of put a, put a bowl on it as, as I like to say, you know, what, what, um, I guess two directions, what podcast do you enjoy listening to? And on top of that, like, if you go back and think over, over the standard H ones, and I know this is a question that I maybe wouldn't love if it was phrased directly back at me, but like, what were some of your favorites? What were the ones where you were chatting and going like, oh yeah, no, this is why I do a podcast of my own show.
Wesley Smith	Yeah.
Jason Heaton	I mean, as far as listening goes, very, very group of people have been on.
Wesley Smith	Yeah, yeah. And I mean, it's almost like my hobbies, right? Like they're kind of all over the place. And my friends, my mom jokes that my friend group is like the United Nations. So it's like, I just love pulling from different sources and like befriending other people and learning because like, I mean, no better education than travel, for example, like you guys probably know that very well. And so from a guest standpoint, I really try to approach it that way. I mean, I loved my chats with you guys. Like you hardly ever talk about like your old cars that you had, which are just like iconic. So like, if people haven't heard my show with Jason, go listen to it because his car list is insane. And then James, obviously you're always an inspiration, but, uh, your show I listened to, I'm like super on a golf kick right now. So I listened to the Eric Andrews Lang show. My brother loves it. He's just like such a personality and he's approaching the topic of golf and the culture of golf and such a roundabout. Wonderful way, but like my chats with you guys my chat with like I loved the Max Booster episode Max is amazing. Justin Haas was on recently and talk about an infectious Oh, yeah groove you can get in with that guy Like yeah, that episode was twice as long as I ever anticipated and I still felt like we didn't scratch the surface So yeah, I mean those are like maybe two of the more recent ones fantastic. Yeah, it's been a ton of fun
Jason Heaton	Look, man, I feel like this has been kind of a long time coming, and I think we should definitely do it again, especially if you've got something fun coming out, as I'm sure you do. Patience notwithstanding, like we were talking about. But it's been such a treat to get to actually see you in person and put a hand on the product and maybe even buy a little bit. Thank you so much for this.
Wesley Smith	Thank you, guys. Thank you. No, I can't. I can't thank you enough for all your support. The several shout outs that you've given me on your show. I've definitely seen a spike following those episodes. I just I'm doing what I love and I've been wanting to do this for decades. So great. Thanks for the support.
Jason Heaton	And how can people follow along?
Wesley Smith	Standard hyphen H dot com. We'll take down that hydrogen company someday. Standard H underscore as far as Instagram goes. Fantastic. And if you can't reach me that way, there's a bigger problem.
Jason Heaton	It'll be in the show notes. We'll make it easy. Cool, cool. Thanks.
Wesley Smith	All right.
Jason Heaton	Thank you guys. All right. So a big thank you to Wesley for being on the show and chatting with us at wind up. I'm such a fan of his. I love the specificity of the way he goes about things. I like the products. Uh, he's also just like a, just such a nice friendly dude that can kind of talk about just about anything and just seems like he wants to, uh, to keep people around him kind of happy and, and also kind of engaged in, in what's going on around them. He's a, he's, he's a great personality and it's a treat to finally have him on the show, especially cause, uh, Jason, both you and I were on, uh, have been on his show. Yeah, true. All right.
James	All right. How about a little final notes? Yeah, let's do it. Um, I can start with mine. I, you know, this, this, uh, this is a story that I've been really captivated with for, for many years. Um, and it came up again when we were in Chicago and I was diving with, uh, with those guys, uh, on those shipwrecks and, and it came up that Chris Scott, who, uh, I believe is a TGN listener and, and, uh, a Naui, um, uh, course instructor, dive instructor. Um, he happens to know this guy. And so I got to chatting with him about Terrence Tysol, um, who is a, In, in certain circles in the technical diving world, he's, he's quite a legend. He, uh, he's based in Florida. He does a lot of kind of cave diving and, and instruction. I believe he was a, he was a diver in the army. Um, but what I knew him from was back in 1995, he dove, uh, the Edmund Fitzgerald. So Edmund Fitzgerald, and I've talked about it before on the show, um, made famous, uh, in a song by, uh, Canadian Gordon Lightfoot, back in the 70s, most famous shipwreck in the Great Lakes, and Terrence teamed up with a guy named Mike Z to do the first and only scuba dive on the Edmund Fitzgerald, which sank in 1975. Now, the astounding thing about this is that the Edmund Fitzgerald, which lies in Canadian waters and is now, and has been ever since, off limits to diving of any sort or exploration of any sits in 540 feet of water. So if you think about scuba diving in that deep of water and consider all of the implications of the number of tanks you have to take, the gas mixtures you have to breathe, the gear you have to take into account as well as the weather and the fact that the water at the bottom of Lake Superior is about one degree above freezing. It's just it's such an incredible story to me and I've always wanted to kind of hear Terrence's story. I've read a few articles about him and I was Googling him after I got back from Chicago because it kind of popped into my head again. And I, I found a TED talk that he did in 2019. Um, I believe it was one of these TEDx talks that was hosted at Northern Michigan University, uh, where he was talking about his dive on the Edmund Fitzgerald and kind of less the technical side of it, but more of how it impacted his life and, and kind of, uh, what it meant to him at the time. And I was really pleased to see that Terrence, despite all of his accolades and his achievements, still seems to be a really humble, well-spoken, articulate guy. And it made for a really good TED Talk. And secretly, in the back of my mind, I'm thinking I'd love to have Terrence on TGN someday. So I'm trying to kind of work an angle to see if we can get him on sometime, because he's still active in the diving community. That'd be so fun. Yeah. So anyway, this is on YouTube. It's a TEDx talk. with Terence Tysall talking about diving the Edmund Fitzgerald. So, if you're into that sort of thing, do give that a click and check that out.
Jason Heaton	That's good stuff. I haven't watched a TED Talk in a while, so this is immediately going into pocket. Yeah. And it'll be something I watch when the jet lag sets in a little bit.
James	Yeah, there's legitimate jet lag, right? When it's three hours, yeah.
Jason Heaton	It's enough for me, for sure. Especially when you're just, like, going all day long. Yeah. It's one thing, you know, you go and rest or whatever. And then maybe like I left so early this morning that that'll probably catch me an hour. Yeah. Um, and then we'll see what time I get up tomorrow. Three hours. Isn't that bad? Right. But it's enough to notice. And it might just throw me off in the middle of the night. I'll be at three o'clock washing this a TEDx.
Wesley Smith	Yeah.
Jason Heaton	So why not? Right. Right. Mine, in an uncommon pick for me, is from the New York Times Magazine, and several people sent this to me. I had already caught it, as I tend to with this subject matter, but it's a story called Michael Mann's Damaged Men. So it's a profile of Michael Mann written by Jonah Weiner. Obviously, Michael Mann, we've talked about a ton on this. He's featured in most of the film clubs. He's one of my all-time favorite directors, and I love his style. I love the way that he kind of leans into a certain type of personality, which is really what this profile is about. But it kind of captures a few different points of what he's working on. The first being the upcoming movie Ferrari, which traces a few months of Enzo Ferrari's life up to the 1957 running of the Mille Miglia, which was, of course, didn't go that well. A very dangerous and fatal race that year. And then it also looks into the fact that he's announced that he's going to release a book for Heat 2. So a follow-up to Heat, one of my all-time favorite movies. And so that's very exciting. And it also just kind of traces the way that he works and his background, his history in the space. And if you like me enjoy Michael Mann and his work, I think this is something you absolutely can't skip. There's things I learned in here that I didn't know about the production of certain things in Heat and in other films. for example, but I absolutely enjoyed this entire kind of article. It's very long read. So, you know, maybe if you catch this on Thursday, save it for the weekend and really dig into it when you've got a few minutes does manage to capture. I mean, they say it right in the story that Christopher Nolan had said, you feel that you're watching a film about experts made by experts, which I think is, is kind of what I love about his work. There's always this like hyper specificity and kind of excellence. in trying to make things feel as real or as authentic or as tied to a certain perspective. And, and I think this, this story really captures what, what it is that I like about Michael Mann and his work. And like I said, I learned a bunch and it's a, it's an easy read and, and man, there's just so many good movies in the back catalog too. So if you're a, if you're on the Michael Mann train this is a, this is not a stop to miss for sure.
James	Yeah. This was a good story. And like you said, it's, it is very long. I remember reading that just scroll bars, just tiny. And, uh, it, but it's, it's an excellent article and it made me really want to go back and watch and rewatch in some cases, uh, Michael Mann films. And you've talked a lot about a number of his movies, but in particular thief, which I still haven't seen, but now I want to see it even more. And, uh, and the Ferrari film sounds amazing.
Jason Heaton	Yeah. Oh yeah. Ferrari, I think will be amazing. I mean, that's, it'll be a very interesting story. And if they are, if they manage to capture Enzo like with some authenticity, which I think being Michael Mann, they will, they're, they're building like an entire set piece for the, the factory, the Ferrari factory. I, yeah, I'm excited. I'm excited for any Michael Mann movie. Uh, you know, I'm not saying like every single one is my favorite. Uh, but, but usually he, he puts something out that I find pretty hard to, uh, to not watch.
James	Yeah. Good one. Yeah. A couple of good picks.
Jason Heaton	Yeah. Great, great Ted talk and, uh, Great long read. So plenty to do this weekend if it happens to be raining wherever you live. Otherwise, be sure to get outside and have some fun, right?
James	All right. Well, as always, thanks so much for listening. If you want to subscribe to The Show Notes, get into the comments for each episode, or consider supporting the show directly and get one of our TGN-signed NATOs, please visit TheGreyNATO.com. And if you're interested in buying one of our full TGN kits with the kerchief, the t-shirt, the pin, and the sticker, you know what to do. Go to the shop link at TheGreyNATO.com.
Jason Heaton	And we leave you with this quote by Sir Walter Scott who said, To the timid and hesitating, everything is impossible because it seems so.