The Grey NATO – 199 – Citizen

Published on Thu, 30 Jun 2022 06:45:23 -0400

Synopsis

This episode of The Grey Nado podcast covers a loose discussion on the watch brand Citizen. The hosts, Jason and James, discuss their history and experiences with various Citizen watches they've owned over the years, from divers like the Autozilla and Aqualand to field watches and more. They also highlight some of Citizen's current offerings that catch their eye, like the new Promaster Mechanical Diver, Nighthawk models, and unique designs like the C-3PO watch. The discussion touches on Citizen's pioneering technologies like Eco-Drive and radio time synchronization, as well as the brand's vast collection spanning different styles and price points.

Transcript

Speaker
Jason Heaton Hello and welcome to another episode of The Grey Nado, a loose discussion of travel, adventure, diving, driving, gear, and most certainly watches. This is episode 199 and it's proudly brought to you by our ever-growing TGN supporter crew. We thank everybody out there so much for your continued support and if you'd like to support the show Please visit TheGrenado.com for more details. James, we're two weeks away from Windup in Chicago. We talk about it every week and people are probably getting tired of us plugging this, but we hope to see a lot of people there and I think we will.
James Yeah, we're going to be attending and exhibiting at the Windup Watch Fair in Chicago. That's July 15th, 16th and 17th at Venue West. We'll have some merchandise to sell. We'll be there all weekend to meet with people, to hang out, to record some podcasts, to take part in some of the programming with some of the other brands. It's a really incredible looking show. It's got a really great list of vendors and brands and kind of activities and setups and the rest of it. So certainly swing by windupwatchfare.com or hit the show notes on Substack for more details. We would love to see you there. I assume at this point, pretty much all of you have heard about it. You know, Chicago is a great place to go for a little vacation. And if you want to swing by the show and say hi and maybe pick up some something cool from us or one of the other vendors, I think that's kind of the point. Otherwise, Jason, how's the last week been? We're still putting things together for the show, right? Just little details here, there, a lot of Photoshop kind of stuff and getting some of the visuals ready and that sort of thing. And now just starting to really plan in some of the programming as well.
Jason Heaton Yeah, I do feel like it's coming together. It felt a little bit like a big lift for a while there when we were getting the merchandise all sorted and whatever, but now it's settling down and I feel like you know, just time to load up the Defender and get on the road and head down there. And I'm really, really psyched to go and I've gotten so much, you know, as you have and as we have via the TGN email box, just, you know, people reaching out with encouragement and excitement about coming to say hello to us.
James Yeah, a ton of comments on last week's episode, it must be said. Yeah. You know, we had that episode all about various watch rules, which I found really funny and Some of the crew have put in watch rules I didn't even realize were a thing. Yeah. Talk about the esoteric at a certain level, right? It is at once something that could be a little bit frustrating about this hobby, but also something that kind of makes it special. Yeah. Is the specificity and the variety of people and feelings and perspectives and the rest of it. So if you were skipping on the comments or whatever, and you want to swing by Substack and check it out, I think that's a pretty good place to start because there's some good ones in there. A few that I've earmarked to reply to sometime this week because some of them are pretty funny. Some of them are some great questions as well. Some good comments for sure. Jason, you also had some news this week, right? Just in the last couple of days.
Jason Heaton Yeah. So I've been working with Paul Andrews, who's a listener of the show. He's a really talented designer based in England, and he had designed the cover for Depth Charge, my first novel. And now that I'm kind of well on my way in my follow-up book, Um, which I've titled sweet water. Um, I approached Paul to, to do some more work on the new book and he came back with a really great cover that, that obviously echoes that of depth charge with a, with a different, I guess you'd say a different setting, um, given the, given the, the, uh, the plot of the book. And it's so exciting to like, just have that cover. And so I, I put it out on Instagram. I wrote up a bit of a, I guess the back cover blurb or an elevator speech, kind of a synopsis of the plot. um for for what the novel is going to be about and uh I don't know it feels more official to have a cover to look at with my name on it um as it was with depth charge it's it's really cool and I've gotten just tons of exciting encouraging feedback from people that uh that are also excited about it you know people are already asking about you know pre-orders and are there going to be t-shirts around the book and whatever and you know all I can say at this point is I'm I've got a prologue and four chapters written. So I've got. Watch this space. I've got work to do. Yeah. Watch this space. We'll, we'll chat about it in the future on TGN and just keep an eye on, on my Instagram. And I, I changed the depth charge novel Instagram feed or profile to Tusker underscore novels just to, to, so that I can use it for future book releases and information. So you can, you can subscribe to that or, or follow that rather if, uh, if you want to kind of get updates. But yeah, so that was, that was kind of exciting and I was really pleased to get the feedback that I did. So that was kind of my big news. I'm just, I'm just, you know, head down writing chapters, uh, every week and then getting ready for windup. That's kind of where I've been at the, for the past little while. How about you? You, uh, you got away for a bit of a impromptu long weekend at the cottage, right?
James Yeah, I, uh, I've been doing much, uh, really like just, just working a lot, kind of staying off of, uh, off of the internet as much as possible. Went up to the cottage this weekend, just kind of chilled. You know, we kind of had a plan to do some more, uh, kind of rental work and, and that kind of stuff. But we got up there and the weather was like kind of perfect, but as good as June can really do, uh, you know, high twenties, low thirties, water was warm, but not too warm. And, uh, ended up just kind of swimming and checking out a brewery and that kind of thing. It was a, it was a really nice weekend. I, um, I'll talk about, uh, one, one special element when we get to, uh, to wrist check. Well, yeah, you know, good weather, some solid snorkeling, got a got a upfront experience, not well snorkeling with a with a nice sized snapping turtle, always a fun animal to kind of get anywhere near. Yeah, you know, before we do get to risk check, I got two shout outs I wanted to get get into the show. The first one is giant mouse. This the knife brand Jason that you have some experience with. Yeah. And they were kind enough to send me a knife. It's the ace grand It's kind of their EDC sized folding knife with a G10 handle in bright orange. I think I put an Instagram photo up last week sometime. I'm really impressed. You know, a super solid knife, feels great, works really well. It's insanely sharp, really comfortable. Nice deep pocket clip on it as well. So a big thank you to Giant Mouse for sending that my way. Certainly very generous and not exactly required at any level. I certainly have plenty of knives. a really impressive product. So I wanted to make sure I shouted that out.
Jason Heaton Yeah. Giant mouse. Um, it's an interesting company, you know, they, they had sent me, um, a couple of their knives, uh, a year or two ago. Um, one of their management team, Jim is, uh, is an ardent listener of TGN, uh, really likes the show, um, likes what we talk about. And, uh, and so he was kind enough to send me a couple of knives a while back. And then recently, um, knowing that, that I'm a diver, he sent me, they had done a limited edition knife. called the Ranae or Ranae, which is like Latin for, for frog. And, um, they had done this limited edition dive knife for the Danish frogmen. Uh, I don't know what you'd call it, society group, whatever they'd like the support group for either retired or current, um, Danish special forces divers. And it's this big, scary looking kind of commando style knife that they produced in limited number for this group. And I was wondering what the connection was with Denmark. And it turns out that Giant Mouse's two of their founders were, are, sorry, Danish. And so that's kind of where the Danish connection is. Jim is American and he's on the management team as well. But yeah, I got to thank them for that as well. It's a knife I don't, I won't be like clipping in my, to my calf while I go to the grocery store or anything like that. But it's just a very impressive blade.
James Yeah, no, I was, like I said, you know, it's not an ad or anything just They were kind enough to send one. And, uh, I've had certainly had the pleasure of owning a wide variety of, uh, of pocket knives and folders and the rest. And I would say that, you know, the, I think they sell these for about 195 bucks and it makes perfect sense that that money, if you're used to anything in that price range, I think you'd be very much impressed by, uh, by this. And, uh, I got to say like the orange, you know, with the sea rambler just kind of works.
Jason Heaton It's a nice little combo, easy to find too in the dark or in the bottom of a bag or something.
James Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then the other shout out, this is a crazy one. So a little while ago, we talked about some of our favorite summer gear, like, you know, gear that lets you get the most out of summer. And we talked about sunglasses and, you know, obviously I'm a big Persol and Ray-Ban fan and Jason, you're big on Randolph and American Optics and that kind of stuff. And then I mentioned that I also like having a pair of sunglasses that I don't have to feel all that precious about and that don't weigh that much for running. Or, you know, again, I don't condone this, but I am the idiot that occasionally does it using it like safety goggles. That sort of thing. And I mentioned this brand Knockaround, which I've had experience with for years. It turns out Evan from Knockaround is a fan of the show. And he reached out and very kindly sent like several of their current models to check out. So I've been kind of cycling through sunglasses, some of which suit me, and some of which less so. But yeah, just they continue to make a nice product. And I wanted to say thank you for sending them I liked the product quite a bit when I bought them for, you know, 20 or $30 and the free ones are just as nice as well. So, uh, a big thanks to Evan and the folks at knock around. And of course to a giant mouse, I wanted to get those two shout outs out there is it's a, it's always nice to get a chance to experience some product, uh, especially from brands that we, uh, you know, that we like in the first place.
Jason Heaton Yeah, that's great. And I love that, uh, knock around. I love the name. I mean, it's like, yeah, it's what it says on the tin, right? I mean, these are, these are glasses you don't want to have to feel precious about, like you said. So that's really cool.
James Yeah, absolutely.
Jason Heaton Yeah. So, so what's on the wrist? You, you hinted earlier that you, uh, it might be related to your long weekend.
James Yeah. So it's been, it's been, you know, however long I've been in watches, 15, 16 years, something like that. I don't think I've ever just kind of come across a good deal at a garage sale on a, on a running watch, right. A watch that I actually wanted. Yeah. And I was up in the cottage and we were just kind of out for a drive, um, picking some stuff up, hitting a farmer's market nearby, that sort of thing. And on our way back through this small town, kind of on the edge of one of the lakes, we stopped at a garage sale that was in support of their boat ramp, rehabilitating their boat ramp. And it was like a community garden was kind of the host and we were walking around and it was mostly like what you'd expect at a semi-rural sort of garage sale, some furniture, lots of glassware, some art of various quality. And I was kicking around and I noticed some like pins, like flight pins and other stuff like old school vintage pins. And I thought like, oh, that's kind of promising. That shows that shows some specificity. And then I got to a little cardboard box at the end and there were a handful of old Bolivas.
Unknown Oh, wow.
James And I was, I was digging around and the, the guy running the table came over and started chatting me about Bolivas. He's a big fan. And I was looking at one and he pulled it out and unfortunately it didn't seem to be running or winding. And then the crown came off in his hand. And so I didn't offer, didn't make an offer on that one. I maybe I should have, but I didn't. And, um, and then he said, Oh, and I have any kind of shuffled stuff around in the box. And there's this kind of, you know, kind of light blue leather, uh, bull of a box with gold accents around the rim. It's one of those kind of thin, um, like clamshell cases and he popped it open and it had this beautiful, uh, I would say it's probably late forties, early fifties, uh, 10, 10 karat gold filled Boulevard with a nice white dial. Not really not that dissimilar from the one my great grandpa had. That's been out for repair for a while. Uh, but this one has baton markers and is not, um, a rectangle. It's rectangular, but you know where the sides are slightly curved?
Unknown Yeah.
James Kind of in a tonneau. Yeah. Yeah. And it's not very, it's not very big. It's a 24 millimeters wide, including the crown, 37 millimeters lug to lug. It's got a baton markers on the dial, which from what I can tell, Googling around is fairly uncommon. A lot of them had like numerals, like brigade numerals.
Unknown Oh yeah.
James And, um, 12 millimeter lugs. And it was on this or it is, it's, it remains, it's on my wrist now, but it remains on this sort of vintage from what I could tell quite possibly what it came with, but like one of those expanding bracelets, like a speed L style expanding bracelet with like a, a, a, a paralleled X structure for each link. And it's probably like three ish links short for my wrist, but because the bracelet's so old, it doesn't, it doesn't really get any tighter. The more you extend it. Yeah. Yeah. So it just kind of conforms to my wrist. I don't really notice it there. It wears a bit like a bracelet or, or like if you wear an Erica's original, like the elastic strap, a little bit too tight. It's kind of like that. I'm, I'm, I'm really loving it. It, it ticks really loudly. So one thing I noticed when I was going to bed last night was, uh, as soon as I, I, you know, took my headphones off to actually settle down, I could just hear it ticking away. Um, but otherwise, yeah, just, just thrilled. And I ended up getting it for like 75 bucks Canadian. So, you know, that's 55 bucks or so us. It's in good shape. It runs. He said it was serviced in the last four or five years. Not that it really matters at that price point, but I was super happy. It kind of made my day. I, like I said, I, you know, I, I like to hunt for these things when I get the chance and half the time it's either a, like they know what they've got scenario, which is either true or not. I mean, more in the saying of secondhand goods, like I know what I got. So there's no flexibility to the price or maybe something's wrong with it. And this one with the box and the rest of it was a totally fair price. So that's what I've got on my wrist. And it weirdly aligns with, um, today's episode, despite the fact that the main topic of today's episode, we picked like about two hours ago.
Jason Heaton Yeah. That's it. You sent me a photo of this watch and the box and it's, it's perfect. And to me, it's perfect that you bought it where you did. I mean the backstory of, of how you acquired it. I mean, when you look back, you know, a few years from now, you know, community garden, um, you know, kind of cottage garage, cottage garage sale. Yeah. I mean, I can almost picture it like, at the cottage on a bookshelf, you know, like kind of a slightly dusty bookshelf with some old birding guides or something like this, this box with the, with the watch in it. That's a, that's awesome. That's cool.
James But yeah, from the, from the cereal, I think, I think it's probably late forties, but to that extent, I've, I've only had it for a little while. I came back from the cottage to kind of a busy work week, just, just day before last. And I haven't really dug into kind of cracking it open and seeing if there's any movement markings, which is usually how you would verify these things that are kind of pre-50s for Bulovo, which I think it's pretty safely pre-50s, but it might be from a little later. Ultimately, that aspect of the story probably isn't the most important to me unless I decide to write about the watch. But I mean, I've just talked about it for four or five minutes and kind of filled in all the blanks as far as the story, so I'm not sure it would make a fabulous read.
Jason Heaton I remember the photo you sent me. I can't remember if it was on the box or on a slip of paper or something. It said something like Bolivar, Canada's- Canada's finest timepiece. Is that on the box?
James Yeah, on the inside of this box.
Jason Heaton So, I mean, that's interesting that they did very country-specific branding for- Because they were very much an American brand.
James Yeah, yeah. Yeah, cool stuff. And how about you? What's on risk for this weekend?
Jason Heaton Yeah. I mean, I've still got this Aqua land on this, this full loom dial, like gray PVD case. Um, I, I just can't take it off. I keep switching straps around, you know, it's kind of a tricky watch to strap up because it's 24 millimeters and I just don't have a lot of 24 millimeter straps. I try as I might. I'm just not into under strapping as they call it. Speaking of watch rules, um, from last week, uh, you know, like I tried to do 20 millimeter. Yeah. Yeah, too, like it's too much of a gap, especially on a PVD watch where like you see the shiny spring bar through the gap. So anyway, I, I managed to, uh, Terry from, um, Ute watch company, uh, our good friend who provides the TGN NATO's, um, he had a couple of leftover, um, bond striped, 24 millimeter straps. Like literally he had two left from years ago and he used to sell them and he said, I'll just send them to you. So. I tried one of those on there and then I got a grey one from Crown & Buckle in 24mm, but now it's back on rubber. It's cool. I've been running in it, I've been gardening in it, I've been doing all sorts of stuff. I can't wait to take a diving. It's kind of becoming the watch of the summer. It's just kind of a really great rugged comfortable watch.
James So that's a good pick. I'm excited to hear how you feel about it when you when you really put it through its paces on a dive or something. Yeah. Yeah.
Jason Heaton That'll be super fun. But it's a good segue because it's you know as you mentioned even with with the watch you're wearing today's episode is all about Citizen. You know we do these brand specific episodes from time to time. We've done Seiko. I think we've done Tudor. A few others I think we did Omega once. Doxa. Yeah Doxa. So Um, today it's all about Citizen and these aren't sponsored episodes. You know, Citizen wasn't aware that we're, we're doing this, uh, the show today about their brand. Um, just, I don't know. I feel like there's a bit of a, and maybe it's just me with this new watch, but I feel like there's a bit of a uptick in, in interest in Citizen. They've got some exciting new stuff and we thought it'd be a good time to talk about it.
James Yeah. You know, it's a thing. I think it's a brand that, and look, I'll say I'm as guilty of this as, as anyone could be. A brand that often plays second fiddle to Seiko. because of Seiko's kind of longstanding adherence to mechanical sports watches. And the funny thing is like Seiko makes a lot of quartz as well, right? Yeah. Kind of at all price points. But the funny thing is, it's just about what they're kind of the core of what they're known for. The eco drive stuff, which is a citizen's technology that developed in the mid nineties for solar recharging of a battery, running their watch off of solar and not needing a battery to replace. They, kind of really let that become the core of their presence in North America. And maybe it's different in Europe. I don't know. I see eco drive ads in Europe and that kind of thing. And I'm, I have to assume that there's a more holistic view of the brand in its home country of Japan. But for North Americans, I think you think of citizen, you think of solar powered watches, you think of eco drive and a high value, nicely made, not fancy necessarily, And the truth is the brand is kind of a lot more than just that. And I think that's where, you know, we talk a lot about Seiko. And I think it's and it comes up in the comments occasionally where like we kind of sleep on on Citizen. So this is on my list of things to talk about when we got the chance. And today we didn't really have an episode in mind. We recorded a pretty fun interview that it turns out there's an embargo on. So we're going to have to hold on to that for a while. So to fill in the blank, We went with Citizen in one of these brand focus episodes. I think the easiest place to start is with their history, right, Jason?
Jason Heaton Yeah, I think so. I mean, as you mentioned, I think Seiko's history, I don't know if it's just a matter of them spinning their story a little bit better or what it might be, but yeah, Citizen, I was looking at your notes that you put down here. I wasn't really even aware of much of Citizen's history. So why don't you give a quick rundown?
James Yeah. So I dug around a handful on their website and on Wikipedia and the rest, and obviously this doesn't have to be extensive. It's not a, you know, it's, it may be in a written story. You'd go a lot deeper than we would on these, but originally the, the, the company was formed in 1930 by a group of Swiss and Japanese investors who took over the Shokosha Watch Research Institute, which was dated back to 1918. And the brand enjoyed really strong connections with the Swiss until world war II, right? where life in Japan changed pretty quickly with the end of the war and things like the development of new technology and institutionalized manufacturing and the rest of it was very much frowned upon for a spell. And they're based in Tokyo. In 1959, they launched Japan's first proper dive watch. This is something I was not overly aware of. I had heard of the Para Water. I didn't realize it was kind of the country's first push, especially from such a well-known brand. And then I think we get into the early phases of what we know Citizen Four now. So 1993, they were one of the pioneers of atomic radio synchronization in watch movements. A lot of you will know this because you've owned a Casio or a G-Shock, right, that has this feature. Yeah. And that's the... There's now six of these radio time synchronization signals. So it's a ping essentially from a specialized radio tower that takes into account atomic time and can keep a watch obviously well within a second all the time. And so that was something that CISM was working on. Japan has one of the six radio systems in the world. And so that was an early phase for them. And then in 1995, they kind of changed the game. with EcoDrive, right? And they've been improving it ever since. The one claim I pulled off of Wikipedia was that by 2007, Citizen said they had probably eliminated the disposal of something like 10 million batteries to the North American market. So it's a big thing. And I know people who aren't watch people, but as I got into watches, there were folks in my life who swore by EcoDrive because it took even another layer of fuss out of the watch experience, right? Yeah. These were folks who would go on a cruise over Christmas or whatever and at the duty free by another citizen, and they had a couple. And they liked them because they were solar. And if they put them in a drawer and brought them back out and put them under some light, the time went back to where it needs to go and you could just keep wearing them. Yeah. It's a technology that I think is really fascinating at a technological level, but doesn't necessarily speak to enthusiasts. EcoDrive kind of removes some of the romance, but you also have to give them credit for being the ones that developed it, being the ones that kind of made the solar stuff work and finding a way to brand it to make it their own. They're not the only brand ever to do solar watches. Right. Right. But like if you see a Seiko with solar on the dial, I don't even think of it as being the same as eco drive, right? Like eco drive. It's just, it's kind of this clever way of, of naming a collection of technologies and the way that the watch works and, and their ability to not have to worry too much about evolving that branding. It's just eco drive. So if you buy a modern eco drive, you get all the bells and whistles. If you buy an older eco drive, you get maybe a few or less, but along the whole run, it's the same. And I think there's, there's a lot to be said for that and what they've put into the watch world.
Jason Heaton Yeah. And I, I didn't realize that that part of the history that there was a Swiss connection there. And, and it's interesting that you mentioned that because currently, you know, there, I had heard somewhere a few years back that citizen was, if not the biggest watch company in the world, one of the top three or four, largest watch brands in the world. And I think part of that is that they oversee, uh, or they own now they're the parent company of, uh, Bulova, you know, you're, you're Bulova today. Um, certainly didn't own them back then. Um, but also Frédéric Constant, Alpina, uh, Le Jouperet, the, the movement company, um, which is based in Switzerland, Arnold and Son, um, and then Miota, you know, Miota movements. We, we find in a lot of kind of the micro brand or boutique brands that, uh, that so many of us love these days. And, um, you know, citizens behind all of that. And, you know, I think, um, a lot of people don't realize that, you know, and they, they kind of keep quiet about a lot of that, not out of any sort of, uh, you know, shame or, or, you know, like they're trying to hide the truth or anything like that. Then certainly if you go to, well, when we used to go to Basel, you know, they used to have a big booth and the kind of all of those brands used to be kind of in the same hub, but, um, it's, it shows the diversity of what they're, what they're into. And a lot of the, technologies that Citizen has developed for their own watches have trickled down to some of these other brands, which I think is pretty interesting. And then, you know, the one thing about Citizen, you mentioned Seiko and kind of the difference in reputation or viewpoint that a lot of watch people have for these two brands is, you know, Seiko has this grand Seiko and Creedor lines that kind of have this very high-end panache to them. And Citizen doesn't really have that equivalent. They do make the, what do they call it? The citizen now, which they're kind of trying to spin as a bit more of a high end watch line, but they don't have that equivalent. So I think people just think of citizen and even the name itself sounds so kind of, uh, if not anonymous, uh, just sort of neutral or, or sort of every day, you know?
James Yeah. And I think, you know, with, uh, and we can get, we can get to some of what they're doing outside of the North American market. Then the North American scope is only like, kind of one slice of the brand. They're not a different thing, but they're a wider thing. Much like Seiko is a wider thing in the JDM world. Yeah. And, and they're wider thing. And you mentioned the citizen, which is that's the line is called the citizen and it's there like premium stuff. I mean, they make a solar movement that is accurate to one second a year. So it's, it's crazy high end watchmaking, modern watchmaking with like hand finishing. And it is their attempt at a grand Seiko sort of thing. Yeah. But then you don't find that if you go on Citizen's US website. You have to go to their corporate global website and then click around and make sure that you don't get geotagged to Canada or the US, or maybe it's the same thing in Europe. But the global site gives you a bigger impression of just what's going on at the company and what they're focused on. And you'd go to Baselworld and walk around and see some really amazing watches in their booth, these highly accurate uh, watches, these beautifully finished, you know, uh, mechanical pieces within their kind of more premium lines. And then we would go to our meeting and just see what was available to the North American market. And it's, it's only a piece. It's a great piece. They've got some fantastic watches, but like we've talked about with your Aqua land, they're not planning necessarily to sell it here. Hopefully we can convince them otherwise. Right. Right. Because I think it would be a cool watch and successful, and it's not, not super expensive, but I don't know if we'll ever see something like the citizen. that line, that ultra premium line from the brand, I don't know if we'll see that come to North America. Think about how much work it was for Grand Seiko to explain itself to North American watch enthusiasts.
Unknown Yeah, true.
James Right? Unless you're really dialed in on the kind of Japan-ness of it all. First it was Seiko, Grand Seiko, right? And then they removed the double branding and they've gone just to Grand Seiko and I think they've done a beautiful job, but that's an uphill battle, just like it was an uphill battle for Lexus, right? Right. To kind of establish what they were. And then luckily, other brands got to kind of follow in their footsteps with Acura and Infinity and others. But that's always a difficult thing to take one price point and a brand and then try and translate what makes that great to a higher level, right? And I think it's something that takes a lot of patience and, um, and a very long outlook on what you do. And I think in some ways that suits watches because they move kind of slowly, but I don't know that they necessarily put their most enthusiast spec product, um, like front and center for North Americans.
Jason Heaton Yeah. Well, let's, uh, let's, let's dive into, um, watches themselves, like watches that we've either, you know, I, you and I have both owned, several citizens over the years. We certainly have loved those and others that maybe we didn't own necessarily, but then maybe we can cover those first and then jump into kind of what they've got on offer these days.
James Yeah, you know, I've had a kind of a varied experience with the brand in terms of price points. And, you know, my first citizen, at least to my memory, was an NY004 diver. I think it's an NY004O diver, NY40. But yeah, the NY004O diver was kind of their automatic, you know, it ran on a basic Miyota movement, I believe something like an 82-15. I remembered not being blown away by it. By that point, I had had an SKX007. They were both said to be similar quantities on the poor man's watch forum and that kind of thing back in the day. And I think I simply got one because I've seen others in the past that were better. I think I got one that was abused by its first owner. So it was a little bit more wabi-sabi. It was a little bit beat up. The bezel fitment wasn't as good as even the Seiko, which of course the Seiko's isn't exactly amazing from time to time. But this was also a watch that I probably bought for 110 bucks back in the day, like off of somebody on Watch You Seek or Poor Man's Watch Forum. Great lume, a very distinctive style with the sort of the bezel design and the hand design. And a lot of you listening know these watches. you know, great water resistance, a true kind of mechanical dive watch. That's one I would love to see them make again, because they still make one very similar, which we'll get to, but it's quite a bit bigger. The 40 was 40 millimeters, the NY40. Came in a few different versions. The one I always wanted was the lume dial, and I just never pulled the trigger on it. Oh, yeah. We'll probably talk a lot about lume dials. Citizen does them really well. Yeah.
Jason Heaton Well, I think I love that and why 0040 whatever diver that you had. And I think I've never actually handled one, but I think what I like about the look of it is that the bezel is just slightly different than kind of most dive bezels for starters, but a little bit less generic. It's also a little bit more of a, what you'd call a sedate or classical styled dive watch, which is something that I've, that has kind of turned me off on a lot of citizen dive watches over the years. Um, because it's just my personal taste. I, I, a lot of their stuff almost has this over-designed, you know, big funky numerals, you know, the eco zillas and, and some of these others and, and just, you know, really bulbous, strange shaped cases and, and font usage and, and kind of cartoonish looking hands. And, and I think what I liked about that one and why I liked the kind of the traditional first-generation Aqualands is they, they, they have a very classic look to them, which, you know, you could say, okay, they're kind of following a certain formula that, They've really broken new ground with the other divers, but that is why I do like their more, I guess, traditional looking watches in the dive space.
James And especially when it gets into their dive watches, you're not wrong, they do get pretty wild at times. Even up to today, we don't even have to go back into their history to see some of the wildness, but I think that also gives them some character. It sets them apart from some of their competition or aesthetically from the world of watches that are essentially from the same visual bloodline as a submariner, right? Yeah. So I think that helps a lot. Where was your start with the brand?
Jason Heaton My start with the brand? First of all, I've talked at length and written at length about the C020 Aqualands, the first generation, and I'm not going to go into a ton of detail about them because I've written articles about them, we've talked about them in the past. You know, my best friend in high school, my old dive buddy had one from 1992 that he bought new and has worn it ever since. And he recently sent it to me. I replaced the batteries in it, sent it back to him. It's still ticking. He's lost the bezel, but that was my kind of first exposure to them. And I was kind of wowed by them. And the fact that it had this, uh, depth sensor sticking out of the side of it was always kind of fascinating to me. And I always wanted one. And I I've, I've owned a few over the years. I have one now from 1985, which was the first year. Uh, and then, a while back, I had the, they did an updated version called the JP 2000, which was, if you looked at them, they're identical, but then you flip it over and you find that it has a screw on more standard style case back rather than the, the one that's held on with little screws and takes three batteries. So they, they kind of made this update in the early nineties, um, to this new style of which this JP 2007 loom dial that I own now is obviously a derivative. But my first actual, purchased citizen that I owned was, I mean, you got to remember this. It was the ProMaster Titanium Diver, the AutoZilla. So this was, they made the EcoZilla and the AutoZilla.
James Functionally and in terms of their, their popularity. These were huge.
Jason Heaton Yeah, exactly. And I just noticed this morning that Jack Forster on Hodinkee wrote up a kind of a bit of a love letter to the EcoZilla, which was in my mind at the time, I always felt like, okay, a lot of people really liked the EcoZilla. It was more affordable. Obviously it was eco drive. It was a little less extreme size-wise than the AutoZilla. I wanted the big boy, you know, I wanted the AutoZilla. It was an automatic movement and it had that big kind of ashtray shaped bezel with the funky numerals, you know, incredible loom.
James The thing makes a tuna look like a pretty small fish.
Jason Heaton Right. Yeah. And, and I remember it being kind of uncomfortable because it had this left side crown that stuck way out, like really far out from the case. And it had this flip out locking lever that you, you flicked open and then you unthreaded this retaining ring around the bezel. So like you could take it all apart. Like you could like disassemble the watch to, to clean out the bezel, um, to, you know, to fit strap on it it took this really wide rubber strap that was kind of integrated under this round case yeah it was a crazy piece and i remember it was it was my first citizen but it was also one of my very first watches that i actually took diving and i remember it came with a an extension dive strap which i thought was really kind of cool at the time and not many brands do this i mean a few brands have done it over the years zodiac's done it uh tag heuer used to do it with a few of their divers but it's it's like a male and female ended rubber strap piece that like you can just extend your strap for wearing over a thick dive suit. I thought that was just the coolest thing. And I remember putting it on over my dry suit and taking a diving in Lake Superior and just thought it was just the coolest thing.
James They were just the coolest thing, though. But yeah, that was that was the first one that I bought. Yeah. Yeah. You know, like like back in the day, like I think you and I got into watches like within a couple of years of each other. I think so. And back in the day when you got into this, like if you had money, you're buying Panerai. you're buying really just disgustingly inexpensive sea dwellers. But like a big dive watch is really cool. You know, Ocean Seven was kicking off with a with a an homage to the the plow prof, right? Like that there was the dreadnought like all the early micro brands were all doing big watches. And like Citizen was not backing down. Like these things were massive and they were popular and they're being worn by people with tiny wrists. It was a, it was just a wild time. And, and the fun, the thing is, is that's a, that's a singular watch experience. Yeah. The Ecozilla or the AutoZilla. You take your pick, whichever one. Yeah. But like, if you've never had one on your wrist, you're kind of missing out. They're, they're, they're wild. They're definitely not comfortable. I wouldn't want to wear one around as my normal watch, but like it wears like a dive computer. Yeah. And it really kind of looks that way, but it also doesn't look like anything else. I think that this, and really the whole line, because they continue to make this stuff today, ones that look a lot like that, or ones that kind of took that sort of vibe and just continued it. Yeah, a singular experience, the Ecozilla, Autozilla sort of thing. I'm glad that that was... That's a hilarious way to start with a brand like Citizen, for sure.
Jason Heaton Yeah. And then just a quick segue, just because it kind of makes sense here. I think I moved from that because I found it fairly uncomfortable and kind of heavy and whatever. And then I, then I remember thinking, I kind of, I kind of like this vibe. Um, this was at the time, you know, mid two thousands. And then I moved on to the, the Orca, which they've recently kind of reissued. And I, they don't, they obviously stopped selling the original one, but it had that, It was a very different watch than the Ecozilla and Autozilla, but it had kind of a similar dial treatment with those really wild markers that you just don't see on anything else. And the bright loom, the really bright hands. But it was a little more sleek, I guess. And I'm kind of glad to see that they've come out with a newer version of that recently.
James Yeah, no, I agree. This is one that aesthetically never hit me very well. But I think if you liked it, you liked it a lot. And they're super fun looking watches, really distinctive from basically every angle.
Unknown Yeah.
James Uh, you know, not necessarily for me and, and when it found, when it came for me, you know, I, my, my, my background just kind of continued in the sort of wearable side of the pro masters, if you will. So I talked about even like on the last, maybe even the last episode, I talked about my loom dial depth chronograph, which is a, a pro master 3740, a Y double O five. I think the AY double O five might be, a little bit different for the loom dial. If you Google that in Google image search, you get kind of a variety of watches, but mine's definitely in there. And I absolutely love this watch. There was a time where I thought I would try and own a handful of them. There's a black dial, there's a blue dial, there's a yellow dial. I think there was a red orange dial as well with blue sub dials. They made a bunch of different ones that had this chronograph, this very illegible tiny chronograph display on top of a depth gauge, and then you had this two tone steel and gold case with the big lump on the side for the depth meter. Again, a very singular watch experience, but one that wore kind of like a normal watch. And at the time, again, we're talking mid 2000s, I was very much a Breitling fan, and these watches captured a similar, in my mind, a similar look. They kind of had a sort of a rider tab, adjacent bezel, a complicated dial, little tiny sub dials, lots of color, But they weren't huge and they weren't expensive. Yeah. You know, mine was on that awesome ND limit strap. That's a watch that if I had it today, I know I would think like, why did I keep this? But not having had it for the last 10, 12 years or whatever, I do kind of miss it. It was a cool thing.
Jason Heaton Yeah. I mean, the history of kind of the Aqualand evolution, if you just Google like Citizen Aqualand or vintage on eBay, you'd you're just struck by how many variations they made over the years. And they went from that original, which they kind of continued making the first one I talked about the JP 2000, which is still on citizens global website. Yeah. So if you kind of like Google vintage Aqualand or look on eBay or something, you're just struck by how many variations they did going from kind of that original analog digital to kind of an all analog display. And then they did this 20th anniversary Aqualand, which, Always struck me as kind of cool. They did two case shapes of this. They did a round one and then they did like a backwards D shaped case and they called it the 20th anniversary Aqualand and had this big digital screen on the right side. And then this kind of cool like arc, uh, depth gauge on the left side with, with a bright orange button, long rubber strap. These were, these were really cool. I didn't have it on our list, but it just, you're, you're recalling your first Aqualand, um, reminded me of this one.
James Yeah, this is one of those ones that falls into the actual territory of like, this is a dive computer that also happens to be a watch. Really, really cool, really modern at the time. Now it looks kind of dated due to the screen tech and the color of the buttons and the font and the rest, but we'll definitely throw this in the show notes. Cause if this is one that you can't quite picture, cause I couldn't when, when Jason first started talking about it and then he dropped a link into the show notes and it immediately came back to me. I remember talking about this on a very early episode of, um, of TGN. Yeah. What is it? Six years ago or whatever. Right. Yeah. Yeah. A cool piece for sure. But the next one that I had that I remember really liking, and it probably only sold it because I needed to pay for the next watch I wanted to write about when I was with Watch Report, was this Air Diver, the PMX 56, which we've talked about this before. They made it in at least two different versions. It was a 41 millimeter titanium dive watch with a full monoblock case, eco drive movement, really light, really easy to wear. At the time, I would say it probably wasn't successful because this was right on the edge of where kind of throwback styling started to become more prevalent in watch design, like watches that had vintagey elements, let alone being full on reissues. And this was just a very modern sort of thing, and that was a cool piece. Really, I remember feeling a little bit expensive for what it was, but then you're getting the titanium, the eco drive, kind of something that no one else could do, a combination of stuff that no one else could do. And the titanium thing has really carried on with the brand, now they make so much in this super titanium. I don't know, that just makes a lot of sense for an everyday watch, to get it in a material that's light and really scratch resistant. A lot of us, I think, kind of have past memories of how soft titanium was, standard grade two or whatever. Yeah. Titanium would just scratch, your bracelet would be chewed up after the first weekend, that sort of thing. And I think that tech has come a long way and I'd be excited to get a chance to tell you when we get to some of the new watches, So many of the ones I picked are in this super titanium, and it looks like a pretty good material. And yeah, I think that's probably it for, at least for ones that were like outwardly Aqualand, ProMasters, things like that. I think that I had briefly a Nighthawk, which I'm sure a lot of people listening, that's the Citizen that they've had, right? This is just a really nice looking 42 millimeter steel pilot's sort of adjacent launch with a twin scale GMT display on top of it. It's water resistant to 200 meters, great loom, kind of has a little, again, like a little bit of a Breitling look to it with the slide rule and that sort of thing. And that's a watch I would still recommend to people. Did you ever have one of these? They did a Blue Angels version.
Jason Heaton That's a hole in my watch collecting history. I kind of feel like one day I need to fill that gap because I've always admired them from afar when I see them on people's wrists. My only history with non diver citizens actually was also in the pro master collection and it was their Alta Kron, um, which was kind of, kind of a mountain sports watch. It had a altimeter kind of function to it. Analog altimeter. And they've made several over the years. And I remember actually being at Basel, gosh, it was a few years ago. And I met a guy from, his name's Eric and he's, uh, he's, I believe he's managing director for citizen Canada now. And, um, super nice guy, but he was a really avid collector. He worked for Citizen for like 30 years and he collected old kind of ProMaster line watches and he brought his whole collection there. And he had like a vintage Alticron that came out in the early years when the Aqualand was also coming out. And it had that same case shape with this module or this sort of bump on the left side of the case that was in that case the altimeter sensor, altitude sensor. And it came on, get this, it came on a leather bund strap that was shaped like that case so it had the bump out on the left for the altitude sensor the bund pad did and it was it was a wild watch and then recently i was you know late night ebay searches and whatever i came across they also made one called the aerocron which was i believe that also had an altimeter but it had like more pilot-y kind of functions to it so you know they kind of did this whole This whole line kind of with that same case shape back in, I guess, the 80s, early 90s and, you know, some really cool stuff. But I had like a titanium EcoDrive Alticron that was a wild watch. It was really cool. And the altimeter was really accurate. Came with an integrated rubber strap that was really comfortable. And they're still making an Alticron, a slightly newer version than the one that I had. But yeah, just a really fun knock around like adventure kind of sporty watch. Yeah, good stuff in the Promaster line. I mean, Promaster was it for me, right? I mean, for you too, it looks like, or Promaster slash Diver kind of stuff, right?
James Yeah, I think so. I mean, the only other one I would mention, and I think we've talked about it on the show before, I'd be surprised if we didn't, especially back in the day, because I think I had it when we were starting TGN. And this is a watch that, like I said, I still recommend to people today. You can't buy it directly from Citizen, it's been discontinued, but you see them online occasionally. The pricing has gone up, and I think it's like less of a killer value than it used to be. But back in the day, I got a BL-5250-02L for like 250 bucks. Wow. They say it's 43 millimeters. I feel like that might include the crown or the pushers, because it definitely didn't wear that big when I had it. But this was the height of like, I wanted this because of how much it kind of looked like a Breitling, like an Avenger.
Unknown Yeah.
James So it has this very military style dial with a big Arabic numerals that are all chopped up by the, um, by the sub dials. And then it's an alarm, a chronograph, obviously your, your, um, timer. It does, it does a handful of different functions. It's a titanium case. It's 200 meters water resistant and it's a perpetual calendar. Oh my gosh.
Jason Heaton Wow. It's got an alarm and perpetual calendar.
James It works really well. It's really quite handsome in person. It is still an eco drive. I remember these being a lot of fun and being kind of popular for a while. And that's when I snapped one up. And I don't remember why I got rid of it. Maybe it was just it had too many features, or maybe they were a little bit too hard to use. Yeah, it's been too long for me to remember. But it's a 120th second chronograph, which up to a 60 minute, it does dual time has a tachymeter scale, date alarm, anti reflective crystal. If you can snap one of these up, or if you're sitting at home listening to this kind of chuckling because you still have one somewhere in a, um, in a, uh, in a drawer or whatever. I think you did well. These are kind of cool. And when I think of citizens that I've, I've really enjoyed this one always jumps, uh, jumps to mind.
Jason Heaton That is wild. That is a do anything watch. I mean, for, for like kind of a non-watch watch person, like, like that could just be it. I mean, you could, you could dive with that thing. You could travel with it. You can just keep it in the sunlight. You're you're good to go. That's really awesome.
James Obviously citizen is known for dress watches and and all sorts of stuff. But our background probably mirrors a lot of those. The folks who are listening was on the pretty, pretty sporty side of the brand and trying to get the most sport in kind of the smallest, most wearable package, which can be a bit of a tightrope with Citizen even today, if we look at more of their modern watches.
Jason Heaton Yeah. I mean, let's move into kind of what's in their current collection that we're liking. Where do you want to kick this off?
James Let's see. Well, I'm going to stick to ones that are on their American site first. Oh, yeah. You know, there's a current Nighthawk. So we already spoke about the Nighthawk. They make a current version, which I think looks great. They still have a modern Blue Angels version. If you like the blue, yellow coloring, there's a few different versions of the Nighthawk now. But the one that I've included and I'll put in the show notes is really just kind of the most modern iteration of the same functionality. But now it's this mix of contrasting light and dark grays and kind of a yellowy orange. I think the watch is arguably even more handsome. It's 42 millimeters. It's a 22 millimeter lugs. You can put it on a variety of straps and they're selling it for $396 at the moment, which feels like a lot of watch for the money. And again, this is the one where you get, obviously it's an eco drive movement and that also gives you the second time zone. And these for me, I think are like remain something that I could pretty much recommend that anyone go out and buy. And then this new version with, it has a little bit more of an angular case. with some facets and that sort of thing. I think this looks really good. And like I said, it comes in a couple of different versions. There's an all black version and there's the blue angels one. I think these feels like a bit of a no-brainer. So a good place to start because that connects us to a watch that I've owned in the past with the Nighthawk.
Jason Heaton Yeah, yeah. No, that's super sharp. I like the kind of that green padded leather strap they've got on that one too. That looks great. Yeah, it looks great, doesn't it? Yeah. A couple of years ago, kicking things off here, I talked about the Autozilla. I tried one out that was, uh, I would say kind of the spiritual error to the AutoZilla, which was actually an EcoDrive watch. It was the Promaster 1000 meter professional diver. And, um, I had written this up for, for Hodinkee, um, a couple of years ago and I, I kind of nicknamed it the Kraken because this is just this wild watch. And I think we talked about this on our big watch episode. So, you know, go back and listen to kind of my, over the top raving about this one. Um, this is just big, like hamburger looking, you know, thick giant thing with this, um, really sophisticated locking bezel that looks like, you know, a circular saw oversized kind of fat hands, the, the, the really long, big, wide rubber strap. Um, just a cool watch. I think it still holds the record as being the deepest water resistance for an eco drive watch, which is a kind of a dubious distinction, but, uh, You know, it's still in their current collection. It still pops up like in social media ads for me. I don't know if it's just because I'm looking up Citizen quite a bit or what, but yeah, I had this one for a while. I tested it out for Hodinkee and it was actually at a time when I was in New York and they were doing Friday Live for a while and I was on Friday Live and I think I had this watch with me at that time. So it's somewhere in the depths of Hodinkee's video archive. You can see me talking about it live as well with Jack and Cara. Yeah, crazy piece. I think, you know, if you're after that, like big AutoZilla, like wild styling, you know, citizen diver, I think this is the way you go in their current collection.
James Yeah. No, I don't disagree. Definitely a good looking one. Let's see what else I've got on the list here. I really like this. I'm not even a Star Wars guy, but I was searching around their site just by size. And when I went under 36 millimeters, I guess, it's this C3PO watch. Wow. They make a ton of different versions that has some more direct Star Wars iconography on the dial. This one is just kind of a, I really like this. Uh, it's a weird gold, uh, gold tone, analog digital watch. That's kind of has that seventies where it has like little instruments, right? So there's a little, there's a function indicator to tell you if you're looking at time, date, alarm, et cetera. There's an actual hands, like an hour and minute hand dial. There's a seconds dial. And then there's a digital dial that shows you, um, day and month and temperature and a few other different things. And like I said, if you're a star Wars fan, there's a bunch of very like specifically star Warsy ones, like with logos and, and the rest, but this basic C3PO one, um, at least from the front doesn't say star Wars on it. I think it has some of that kind of stuff on the back. And I like, you know, I'm a big fan of the Casio AW 500s. And and I like those those 70s Timex Q digital reissues they did in the gold tone as well. So this is up my alley. It's a weird pick, but it's one I did want to flag because it's it's just so much fun.
Jason Heaton Yeah, that's that's that's a cool watch. I mean, it's and you know, you get the kind of the tie in with C3PO, the gold colored droid from all the Star Wars movies. without it being so over the top blatant, like it's immediately recognizable. Like if they hadn't called it that or named it after that, like someone would nickname it that because it just kind of has that look with the two, the two eyes and that gold tone. Yeah.
James That's fun. It's something to take a look at. Um, just kind of depends on how it would suit your style. I think like not everybody wants a giant diver or a nighthawk. And I wanted to have something that might, uh, might speak to a few others. Um, Oh, and the same with that garrison, which we spoke about in the past, we've talked about the Garrison and this is a 42 millimeter sort of field watch in the super titanium and it's also with a green dial. They actually make like a ton of versions of these, so I'll just buzz through it, but we brought this one up in the past and I still think it's a great looking watch with a nice mix of tech and kind of traditional sport watch styling that works for me. And again, this is up for $300 currently. It seems like their site's always on sale, so maybe that's the case, maybe it isn't, but it's worth checking around.
Jason Heaton Yeah and you know kind of along along the same lines I mean it's it's not to my personal taste I find this one a little bit bland other than the pop of red on the seconds hand but you know it comes up regularly with with people and it's been on Hodinkee in the past as well as kind of a pick for kind of a do anything watch and this is their ProMaster Tough. So for $495 you get this eco drive watch it's uh you know highly water resistant it's scratch resistant I mean it's it's kind of just your do do anything go anywhere kind of feel style watch that you know, you really wouldn't have to take off. I, if I'm going to go citizen, I'm going to go dive watch, uh, you know, nine times out of 10, but you know, if someone's looking for, for something that's not a diver, I think this is a good, a good pick. I'm sure it's got great loom too, et cetera.
James Yeah. And, and it's got a, um, um, a special coating on the stainless steel, super titanium coating is what it says. So extra scratch resistance, which again, we're big fans of. And then the other cool thing is this is yet another citizen where they've gone with a monoblock case. Oh yeah. Yeah. Um, but, uh, yeah, a sharp looking design for sure. I, uh, I can see why, why you picked that one. Yeah. Um, let's see what else. And then, oh, and then I went and did a quick search around to, to try and take a look at ones that like weren't part of the U S domestic market, the North American market. Uh, so I obviously see a Japan, I'm a huge fan of theirs. I bought a lot of SACOs off of them. They also carry citizen, which is a good place to start to see what's available because it's all curated by watch nerds. So they do a really cool version of that NY040 diver. In its modern sense, the Promaster Diver's 44 millimeters. So you'd need the wrist for it, but it's a red one. And I think it looks pretty cool. You don't see all red divers very commonly, like obviously green is super popular now, but it has a red bezel and a red dial and a white RIAT, which I like. I also came across, they have a 200 meter, you know, in quotes, a ladies diver. It's a 33.5 millimeter, 200 meter EcoDrive diver. Oh, that's right. And I think this is, this is one that, that I've slept on. Like we've had this question come up on, on episodes in the past saying like, Oh my, you know, my partner or I'm a woman and I would like a smaller dive watch, or I just prefer a smaller dive watch in, in general.
Unknown Yeah.
James There you go. 33.5 millimeters of, you know, it's a, it's a 15 seconds a month courts, eco drive movement, screwed on case, rubber strap.
Unknown It's an Indy limits, right?
James Yeah, good loom data for a nice little dive watch that I think really encapsulates like they just do the same thing in 39 citizen. Yeah, right. I think I think you'd sell a bunch of them. Yeah, I'm in Domenico drive and with a Miyota 9015 or something similar. And and go nuts. I think people would dig it. But I think this is cool. I'm looking at hold on, I'll switch to US dollar. It's also 260 bucks. Mm. Wow. So like if you've got, if you've got, again, I don't think it needs to be specifically ladies, but if you've got someone in your life with a smaller wrist or who really prefers a smaller watch, and that could be a young man, a young woman, whatever. But I think that that's one that should be on the radar. That's just a really good price. And you could snap it up from CA really easily. I've bought a lot of watches from them and it's, it's a good experience. It's not an ad. They don't know me from anyone else, but it's always been easy.
Jason Heaton What else we got here? You've got this GMT diver on the list from Seiya as well. I mean, somebody brought this up in, I believe, an email to us as well at TGN, this 200 meter GMT diver that Seiya has for a little less than 400 bucks. I mean, it's definitely a boldly styled watch, but the 24-hour scale on the the RIOT is is there's no mistaking it.
James I mean that that like stands front and center but then there it is there's your GMT diver and it's uh eco drive to boot so that's yeah 43 millimeters on this one in um in a super titanium case with the Duratect coating uh so super strong really scratch resistant definitely a big bold watch I would think like in the vein of like the bolder side of even what like Bremont does, this is kind of where I would land in terms of the styling. I think it's successful, especially if you've got the wrist for it. This is the BJ7111-86L ProMaster 200 meter GMT. I saw it and immediately thought like, hey, this is pretty sharp. I like it. And it's a GMT that the ad copy or the spec copy in CA says that it's a GMT with an independently adjustable hour hand. I don't know which our hand is independently adjustable. If it's a local jumping, then that's pretty solid for 400 bucks. Uh, especially if you like a, a watch of that size. Yeah. Another one where I think they could, they could easily just make a smaller version and do quite well. I'm bringing it over here. Yeah. Uh, there's these, did you check out, I think you might dig this one again. It's not a dive watch, so it might be a little bit outside your zone, but this citizen pro master land, they do several different versions of these. Huh? Um, they are, uh, uh, 39 millimeters wide, 11.4 millimeters thick, 20 millimeter lugs. They use a solar powered movement. They're super titanium as well. And they're just kind of like a field watch style with a day and date. Oh, it's radio controlled too. Yep. Radio controlled and 200 meters water resistant. Wow. Checks a lot of boxes. That's a, if you want to get someone into watches or you want a perfect sort of like weekend watch, knock around watch, maybe normally you wear dress watches, stuff like that. I think this could work really well. It's the right size. a great sort of spec and that sort of thing. And then the radio controlled means that you don't even have to care that it's plus minus 15 seconds if you don't sync it. Right. It'll always be nice and accurate. And I think it's quite a handsome watch as well.
Jason Heaton Yeah. Yeah. I've got one that will be available on the American market. They're saying summer of 22. So here we are, summer of 22. Maybe even by the time this episode goes up, who knows. This is the Promaster Mechanical Diver. So this is a bit of a departure for citizen, but also a return to something that they made back in the eighties that was based on a watch that they called the challenge diver. Um, and they like to say that it was, uh, it was based on a watch that was found, uh, you know, encrusted in coral on a reef somewhere in Australia. Um, and, and they, it was able to, you know, once they wound it up or shook it a few times, it started running again, which is pretty remarkable. now they've kind of re-released this watch and it's it's a mechanical watch it's much more conservatively styled than a lot of the citizen divers that we've talked about which to me is a really good thing but this is you know it's titanium case mechanical movement so so not an eco drive this is very much kind of a throwback watch but I it it's almost like a like their version of of like a skin diver with with kind of a kind of a cool looking rubber strap I'm I'm really I'm pretty excited about this one, actually. And I think I'd love to get some hands on time with this watch because I'm so used to kind of either old Aqualan Quartz stuff or this really funky, wildly styled newer Eco Drive stuff. And I think this kind of slots in where I kind of feel like Citizen's been missing something lately.
James Yeah. And I mean, at a price point just below $1,000 is what they were projecting when the story went up on Hodinkee. This is also going to be pretty solid straightforward competition for something like the SPB 143. It's very similar in size. I would say you could make the case that a 9015 will probably keep better time than a 6R35. My 6R35 has been pretty good, but you certainly get a lot of opinions that vary from that. On the internet, in terms of accuracy, those movements, 41 millimeters, 12.3, super titanium with the coating, a nice rubber strap. Looks like an interesting proportion too. The lugs look quite wide. Yeah. For the case, but maybe that's just the kind of trim in on the bracelet or the rubber. But yeah, handsome. This is, I think, exactly what they should be making. Yeah. Makes sense. Yeah. So that'd be a good one to see. And then, yeah, the only other one I had on my list was that The Citizen line, which is not so much something that we're saying, like, go out and buy, but like, check it out. Yeah. See what they're about. It's not something that is widely covered, at least within the scope of what I read on the internet about watches. Uh, it looks to be something that's very kind of quietly part of their core market in Japan, but the, the stuff they've got in there, including, you know, watches that are accurate to one second a year are pretty cool and they're good looking watches. And, and, you know, maybe, maybe broaden the scope a little bit of, of how we think about citizen from our shores onto others. Right. Yeah.
Jason Heaton Well, that's kind of a whirlwind roundup and, and, you know, citizen has such a vast collection that you know, we, we didn't even scratch the surface, but those are, those are the ones that catch our eye and that we've owned and love. So, you know, that's, that, that was the starting point at least. And I'm sure in the comments, people will let us know of, of their favorites and ones that we overlooked and some hidden gems. And I can't wait to read those.
James Yeah, no, I agree. I think, I think there's no way that we were going to get to all of it. And, and even in some ways we didn't touch that deeply on, on most of these, but that's the kind of how these brand focus episodes go. And with some brands, they only make 30 watches or 60 SKUs, right? Like I'm Citizen probably has 600 SKUs. Yeah, maybe more when you start to factor for what's in the secondary market that maybe they don't sell directly through their website anymore. Yeah, but a really impressive brand with a ton of scope and my guess is also a brand that like brought a lot of people into the same sort of feeling about watches and sports watches and and we're part of a lot of people's story as they got into this hobby. And I think that's how I always think of citizen very warmly and a huge fan of their weirder stuff, right? Whether it be stuff like the aqua lands or or otherwise. But yeah, there's a couple here that I think would be really great to see in person. The C-3PO could be super fun. I think that challenge diver could be really popular. I'd love to see it actually come out and you put a story out on it, maybe do some diving or something. But yeah, like Jason said, we definitely didn't get to everything. So let us know if there's something you love that we missed and we can even keep it on the radar for the next time we talk about the brand. But in an attempt to not have this be a super long episode, Jason, what do you got for final notes?
Jason Heaton This comes from Sidetracked Magazine's Weekly Dispatch. If you don't subscribe to that, I highly recommend it. They've always got great content, both in their magazine, on their website, and in this weekly newsletter that they put out. But this one is a 17-minute video on Vimeo called Exposed, and it's from a solo adventurer in Australia named, I think his name is Kital or Kitali Wilson, who sets off on a bike ski traverse from Coast the coast of Australia inland across Kind of the outback to the what are called the snowy mountains now, you know naively I didn't realize how much Snow you can actually get in Australia and that there's some actually some decent skiing there shame on me for not knowing that but he sets off on a bicycle with his skis and and a vintage film camera and a single roll of film and that's kind of the theme of this video is that he's got 36 exposures and kind of it breaks up this 17 minute Uh short film into kind of each of the photos that he takes and it's kind of a quieter more philosophical Kind of journey that he takes and and it's beautifully shot And uh, I just kind of like his the vibe of it. I like the style in which he travels. It's not like hardcore You know mountaineering or skiing or whatever? it's just kind of this guy who's like biking in like normal bike clothes with like an older bike that he maintains and built up and straps his skis on and off he goes and and you know, it, to me, it was like this reminder of, you know, every adventure doesn't have to be with the best gear or, you know, to bag a first assent or, or dive the deepest or whatever. It's just like, go out your door with what you have and have an adventure and a really beautifully done. So yeah, check it out.
James It's really good. I love that. Yeah. I didn't, I did not get a chance to catch up with that before we recorded, but that looks fantastic. And I, I've, for whatever reason I was sleeping on, sidetracks, uh, kind of roundup letter.
Jason Heaton I consider myself more great, more good stuff to read, to add to your pile every week. Right?
James Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. It's, it's a certain point it becomes endless and also a bit of a snake eating tail. If we're both picking final notes topics from the same, you know, 10, 10 great publishers or something like that. Uh, speaking of, I mean, this, this is my pick for this week is, is one that's like very much in the norm because I think I've recommended it the last four years that they've done it on the show and this is the Goodwood full-time shootout. So Goodwood Festival of Speed was this past weekend and I didn't get to go. That's still on my dream list of sort of car events to get to. There's kind of two videos that I recommend from the overall event and the first one is the full-time shootouts. So for those of you who don't know Goodwood Festival of Speed is a hill climb event that's also an exhibition of a variety of cars. And they basically drive up the driveway of Lord March's Manor in the UK. And some of them are timed and with the goal of beating a record. And a record was beaten this year, very impressively. But there's all sorts of different records based on what the car is and that sort of thing. And the full-time shootout is essentially, I think it's the better part of 50 minutes this year, collecting all of the timed kind of all out runs up the hill. And it's a spectator thing. You can go and sit and watch it. It's something I would love to attend someday. And then the other side of that is a video from our pal Henry at Carfection covering the events attractions. So not just the hill climb, but other things that were on display or for show there, uh, obviously car based stuff. Uh, and I watched that and really enjoyed the video and, and it looks like Henry's got himself a scurfa on a pretty familiar looking NATO as well, which I think is a great combo. and a perfect fit. Henry, if you're listening, we approve deeply and hope you had a great time at the event. And the other bummer was I really wanted to be able to find a recorded video of Pikes Peak, which is also this past weekend. And my friend Johnny Lieberman drove as part of Jeff Swartz team, drove a Porsche Cayman up the hill. And it was aired on Facebook, but now I can't find like a recording to share. So if I can find that, I'll run it, but I just want to throw it there like it was 100th running of Pikes Peak, that is, which is kind of monumental for what it is. And it was really cool to know somebody that was running it and how much work johnny put into to practice and train and get ready. And then they're like the weather was rough. So would not have been an easy run up the hill. It was a scary race in clear weather. And they had they had a proper a proper go of it this year. It was it was super exciting. The bits the bits that I got to see. And if I can find a full one, I'll include it in a in a future show notes. And if you know of a full capture, or even highlights of various classes, because some great stuff happened this year. Let me know in the show notes, I'd appreciate the link I searched around for a while and it's no longer on the Facebook page or the rest of it. So I'm not sure if they're maybe editing it or processing it or something like that. And it'll come up later. But yeah, a lot of car stuff. It was it was a big weekend internationally for cars between Goodwood and Pikes Peak and Uh, super, super stuff from, uh, from people that we know.
Jason Heaton Yeah. Wow. This is one of those episodes that I feel like I have to catch my breath afterwards. It just felt like we had more than we had time for, um, which isn't a bad thing.
James No, I suppose not. You can always do a Citizen 2. Yeah. Right. We definitely need to do Henry Catchpole 2. Yeah. Right. And yeah, as always, thanks so much for listening. If you want to subscribe to the show notes and get into the comments for each episode or consider supporting the show directly, and maybe even grab yourself a new TGN signed NATO. please visit thegraynado.com for more details. Music throughout is Siesta by Jazza via the free music archive.
Jason Heaton And we leave you with this quote from Eli Pariser who said, I think it's easier than ever to hear only what you want to hear. That doesn't make a good citizen.