The Grey NATO - 198 – Should You Break These Watch Rules?
Published on Thu, 23 Jun 2022 06:30:20 -0400
Synopsis
Jason and the host discuss breaking various "watch rules" that some enthusiasts insist upon, such as not wearing dive watches on leather straps, not wearing dress watches in casual settings, or adhering to strict size rules for wrist sizes. They argue that these rules are overly prescriptive and that people should feel free to enjoy watches in whatever way suits their personal style and preferences. They also touch on rules around modifying vintage watches and brand snobbery. Ultimately, they encourage listeners to wear what they love with confidence rather than blindly following arbitrary watchmaking conventions.
The episode wraps up with Jason describing a mosquito repelling device he recently purchased that seems effective, and the host recommending the Netflix documentary "The River Runner" about an extreme kayaker.
Links
Transcript
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| Jason Heaton | Hello, and welcome to another episode of the Graynado. It's a loose discussion of travel, adventure, diving, driving gear, and most certainly watches this episode 198. And it's proudly brought to you by the ever growing TGN supporter crew. We thank you all so much for your continued support. And if you'd like to support the show, please visit thegraynado.com for more details. Hey, Jason, how we doing? Oh, good. |
| Host | It's a little, little toasty here. It's been a, been a hot couple of days, but, uh, other than that, you know, I mean, it's midsummer. What, what can I say? I just, when you said one 98, it occurred to me, we're creeping up on yet another milestone for the show here. Uh, episode 200. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah, absolutely. It's coming up pretty soon. We're thinking about having a special guest. We're not going to do a whole lot of fanfare or, or anything special for it just because we're sinking a lot of resources and time and stuff into where we'll be July 15th, 16th and 17th. And that's the wind up watch fair in Chicago at venue West. We're going to have some merchandise to sell. We're going to have some programming to do. We're going to be standing around and chatting with a lot of you. We hope we've rambled on. Well, let's be clear. I've rambled on about this on the past, you know, five or six episodes at this point, but we'd love to see you there. If you can make it, it's going to be a great show. There's going to be a lot of fantastic brands. And again, that's July 15th, 16th, 17th. And I guess in some ways we'll consider that kind of the party, the hangout, the whatever for episode 200, but we're going to keep cranking 200 for whatever reason feels less special than 100. I'm not certain why, maybe, maybe because a lot of podcasts don't make it to a hundred, but maybe if you make it to a hundred, 200 is a little bit easier. You just kind of stay in the stream, try not to drown. |
| Host | Yeah. Maybe we've gotten jaded. I don't know. I mean, 200 is, uh, do a lot of other podcasts, uh, number their, their episodes. I haven't, uh, Haven't really paid much attention to that, but 200 does seem big. I'm certainly proud of it. Funny looking at our logo. I think we say established 2016. I think the sheer length of time that we've been doing this is more striking to me than even the number of episodes. Just the fact we've been doing this for six years. I mean, in this business, that's a, that's ages. |
| Jason Heaton | Yep. We're getting old for sure. And, uh, and that's, I think it's going well. I mean, we haven't run out of stuff to talk about. Thankfully, we have lots of friends that are willing to come on and chit-chat with us. And we're on pace to hit the number of episodes that we promised. So I think that's going pretty well. Speaking of going well, Jason, how was your trip? You were down in North Carolina. |
| Host | Yeah, we were both gone. And now looking back, it seems like already it's fading in the rearview mirror here. But I got to say, Ghoshani and I were both blown away by North Carolina. It was our first trip. there ever. Um, I had always read about Asheville area and just North Carolina in general, and it did not disappoint. It was such a, just such a all around pleasant trip. You know, we, we did everything from, you know, kind of walk through some art galleries and do kind of a brewery crawl, uh, on some great recommendations from, from listeners and, uh, a ton of hiking. I think out of the five, well, the four full days we were there, we, we hiked, uh, three of them. Um, we had one kind of pretty heavy rain day that was just pleasant to hang out in the cabin. You know, I mean everything, everything about that part of North Carolina, um, which is kind of the Western side of the state in the, um, the great smoky mountains. It's mind blowing. It's the roads. I mean, you know, people talk about great driving roads all over the world and, and I know that there's a famous road in North Carolina called the tail of the dragon that a lot of like motorcyclists like to, to ride on. Um, and I'm sure car enthusiasts as well, but, I mean, we, we didn't drive that, but the roads around where we were, we're just. Epic. I mean, just like, almost like corkscrew straight up a mountain. And, and we, we kept remarking, I think we've gotten so, um, sort of grimly used to the, the really poor road conditions here from all the frost heaves and freezing and thawing that, that we get up here, that, that we were just blown away by the quality of the tarmac in North Carolina. The roads are just pristine. The scenery was spectacular. The hiking was great. Gosh, I just, you know, I mean, I, I put a lot, a lot of photos on Instagram. You can, you can check out my, uh, my feed from about the past week or so. And, and you'll see, uh, you'll see, you know, a lot of what we got up to, you know, we, we'd found a cabin on Airbnb before going and it was, it was incredible. I, I, I don't know the backstory much. I tried to kind of get a little bit out of the owner via kind of chatting on Airbnb. And he said that he had learned that it was an old moonshiners cabin, um, you know, which, I suppose, you know, everybody loves to tell that story out there maybe, but, uh, it sure felt like it, it was up this, gosh, it must've been two miles up this gravel windy, very kind of Jeep road kind of track that went up through the woods, you know, straight up the side of a mountain. And, uh, you know, you get to the end of the road and there's the cabin and it's sitting in this perfect sort of amphitheater of trees looking down this valley with the mountain straight across. And it was, you know, a log cabin with a, with a big big porch with an overhang and a fire pit and like an old hot tub in the woods that wasn't used anymore. But, but the interior had, you know, modern amenities, had a decent, decent shower and good cooking facilities and whatever else. So it was everything about the trip was, was fantastic. So, uh, yeah, we, we definitely want to go back there if not move there. |
| Jason Heaton | Absolutely, man. It sounds like you had such a good time and it looked so good on Instagram. Like it just looked, uh, it looked great and different. Yeah. I think when people go on vacation to Instagram, you expect the south coast of France, you expect Hawaii, and this was like a whole different thing. It looked like you were in a jungle sometimes, and sometimes it looked very kind of cabin-y and almost Pacific Northwest-y, but then no ferns. And I thought it was great. It looked like you had a blast. I've only ever driven through North Carolina, and you can always kind of tell you're there. It feels like a different sort of state. And the people I know who grew up in that area or South Carolina, they never really leave. You know, they may live somewhere else, but it always seems like when they get the chance, they're back home. |
| Host | Yeah. One of the most beautiful places we've been and, and, you know, every state, every, every part of the world has its devotees and it's, it's really proud residents. And, um, but I gotta say that, you know, people really came out of the woodwork for this one. And when I would post, uh, pictures or, or talk to someone on, on a direct message or a listener via our email, Um, you know, you can just sense the pride that people have for that area. And I think it's because it's, it is lesser known. I mean, a lot of people just don't think of that area of the country. And I think the people there then are like, yeah, see what we mean. This is, this is why we love it here. |
| Jason Heaton | That's awesome. I'm so glad to hear it. Yeah. I spent part of last week in Italy with Chopar. |
| Host | Those cars were just incredible. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. It's probably not something I need to talk much about. Cause I did a podcast for Houdinki radio, um, with Carl Friedrich Schäufele and Jackie Ickx, uh, you know, Carl Friedrich is the co-president of Chopard and has basically been both supporting and running in the Mille Miglia since 1989. Wow. The brand's been a key partner since 1988. It's kind of. |
| Host | That's a long time. Yeah. |
| Jason Heaton | Jeez. That's a commitment. It's such a long time for a brand to support something that I'm not sure has a, like they said, they said it has a financial, you'll see it's in the podcast that we recorded, but they said that, you know, that it has a financial upside for them, but it's mostly like a thing they do because they love it. because he loves it. He runs his own cars. He's not a concourse guy. He doesn't want to go to a lawn and look at some pretty cars. It's the idea of them moving, and especially moving in the same way they did between 1927 and 1957, when the race was held all but just for a few years, though, during the war. And then in 1977, they started it again. And for safety, man, they were years ahead of their a whole concept on the safety of road rallies, but they made it a time distance speed, what's called a regularity rally or regularity race, where you have a driver and a co driver, the co driver has this big road book and the road book has sections, the legs of the trip, it's 1000 miles, so it's not a small trip, especially in a vintage car and you go down from Brescia to Rome and then back up to Brescia through the mountains on the kind of the central east side of the route and you basically have to maintain like a perfect average speed and that's what you're graded on. So that's how they control people from just driving like maniacs back in the day, quite famously, you know, Sterling Moss did the whole thing at an average of 100 miles an hour, 1955 in a really, really fast Mercedes race car. And that was on public roads through cities and towns. And he averaged a hundred. Wow. Wow. Think about average, right? Think about when you drive to work. Yeah. have your phone tell you what your average speed was for the drive. Even if you think you're going 75 miles an hour on the highway the whole way, right? You're going to have like a 44 mile an hour average. Once you have a couple of stoplights, a couple of city streets. Yeah. And you know, it's, it's an insane thing. I think the way that they've modified it for modernity makes a lot of sense because the cars still have to be from the original window of 27 to 57 and they had to have been cars that ran during that time. Oh yeah. uh, not actual cars, the car, some of those were there. There were some cars that ran several times during that window that people are running, like the exact same car. Oh yeah. But otherwise like it has to be a model and a year range that, that ran the race back in that day. You know, it is, it's, it is kind of like rich guy stuff, but man, if you're that rich and you can like, at least I get it. Yeah, I get it. I get it. I certainly get it more than trying to go to almost to the edge of space or something like that. You know what I mean? Right. True. When you don't even get to drive or fly the, fly the spaceship or whatever. Yeah. And that was super. So we had a fun podcast with those two guys. If you don't know, Jackie X is a famous race car driver. He's won pretty much everything you can win, including Le Mans six times. He's a lovely guy. I've met him a couple times. You know, we did that. And then I shot a huge photo report for Hodinkee that went up yesterday. So we're recording this on Tuesday. So it's been up since Monday. And that's like, I think, 90, 92 images that made it into that. It's a, you know, it's a big, big set of photos. But if you have any interest in Ventus cars, you know, by all means, take a look. |
| Host | How did the new lens work out for you? I mean, well, I shouldn't even ask because the photos were spectacular. I mean, was that 50mm that you bought kind of ahead of this trip what you used for most of those? |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah, I would say of the photos that I published, it's probably 95% of them were shot on that. It's perfect for cars. I found it very simple to use. Once I figured out a way to use a circular polarizer, which in my opinion, I don't understand why people shoot cars without them, kind of drives me nuts because you just, the top of the car, the part of the car that faces the sky ends up just being blown out, like reflective. If you can follow my logic here, when you shoot a range finder, you're not actually looking through the lens. You're looking through a range finder. So when you rotate a CPL, you have to see what happens to the reflections to pick a spot that works. Right. So it doesn't really work with... So what I ended up doing was just taking one of my kids paint markers, and I basically marked high polarization. The same way your sunglasses work, they're always set to high polarization, so the center pure vertical is the most amount of polarizing that you'd get. And I put a little mark there and it's bright yellow, so I could actually see it in the range finder. Oh, okay. And so I would just... If the camera's in landscape, I would rotate the yellow to the top. If it's in portrait, rotate the yellow to the top and I I wasn't sure it would work, to be honest, but I gave it a spin. It worked out okay. The photos came out nicely. I'm pretty happy with them. I'm exhausted. I ended up with a 24-hour layover in a place I didn't plan to, but that's how these things go. Travel's certainly not... Travel's more open now, but it hasn't gotten any easier. And in many ways, the level of apathy from those running it seems even higher than normal. |
| Host | Yeah, yeah. Yeah. You probably feel like you, you just did a thousand miles in a 1927 car. |
| Jason Heaton | You might've made it home faster. I had, I had a good seat on the plane. I, you know, I, I might've gotten home faster if I had driven to the, to, to London or something from Milan and then hopped on a flight out of Heathrow. Yeah. Yeah. That was good. Other than that, I think, I think currently I'm planning to be home until until Chicago. Yeah. So that should be good. That would be preferable to me. I'd love to just spend a little bit more time at the cottage and a little bit less time Looking at Google calendar is the truth of it. It's just, it's talk about a way to suck the fun out of summer. Yeah. |
| Host | Yeah. And summer seems to be the time. I mean, as we've mentioned before, I mean, other than like in Switzerland and I remember Sweden when I used to work for a Swedish company, like they would just kind of shut down in the summer. Like for some reason, at least in North America, it feels like that's when companies like are like, all right, let's, let's get cranking here. Let's, let's put out a bunch of work now. And it's like, come on, isn't this the time of year we're supposed to be outside having fun and save, save the hard work for winter when you want to sit at a desk, you know? |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah, no, that's, that's how I feel. And you know, it's just, um, it's just trying to get the schedule sorted out so that I can actually find some free time and, and, you know, do something like your North Carolina trip. Uh, and I've got some, some, you know, dream stuff I'd like to do even before September and I blinked and it's June 21st. So, you know how it goes. But yeah, check out those stories on Hodinkee if you like. I'm pretty proud of how they both came out, especially that photo report. But it was definitely a good trip and man, so much fun to see those cars. Some of them I've never seen in person before. Amazing. Yeah. |
| Host | Yeah. All right. Well, we've got a pretty watch heavy episode. |
| Jason Heaton | What are you wearing? So I'm working on the final touches for a now very much delayed story about the Vertex Aqua Lion. Those who listen to the show will know I've had it for some time and it just kind of kept getting pushed off by trips to New York and then trips to Italy and then podcasting concerns and the rest of it. So I'm committed to getting this story up because it's a watch that I'm all but fall in love with. I think it's fantastic. Yeah. You know, I think it's just the right size. It wears really well. It kind of offers like a modern tool-ish sort of vibe that's a little bit more classic than something like a Pelagos. And obviously, you're not dealing with the HEV and the rest of it. It's on the expensive side for a micro brand, but I think they make the case for the price point really nicely. And I've enjoyed wearing it, but I'm just working on that story. So it's been on my wrist for the last couple of days since I got back. Man, from what might be the best loom on any dive watch I've ever come across, I'm just trying to think if there's like a Citizen Aqualand, like one of the Orcas or something like that that I'm forgetting about that had something with it. Right. Nothing in the last several years, nothing in the last decade that I can really come to mind. It's brighter and longer lasting than my Monster. It wears really well. The bezel's absolutely fantastic. Easily one of the best bezels on the market right now. Yeah, I agree. It just works really well. 60 click is hard to do. And most people just opt for 120 because it's easier and takes less work and less precision. But from the touch points to the timekeeping, to the loom, to the just the way it wears, I really like it. I've been impressed. |
| Host | Yeah, it's such a good watch. How have you been wearing it? On what strap? The bracelet as much as possible. |
| Jason Heaton | just because I think like when it's three grand, which is what this watch is, it's three grand us. Um, I think you have to try and like, as, as someone in my position, who's going to review it, like I've had it on the rubber, it's so comfortable on the rubber. It's great on a NATO, but the bracelet for me is really like, you have to try and experience everything that someone's paying for at that price point. And even if I'm not a giant bracelet fan, I mean, this one really does check a lot of the boxes, as they say. It's single-sided screws, so it takes a minute to size that comes with the tool, right? The packaging and everything that comes with the watch is incredible. Multiple straps, the tool, the size of it, spare spring bars, everything's quick connect. So if I want to go to rubber, I don't have to scratch the watch. I don't have to pull out even a pair of spring bar pliers. You just pinch it with your finger and pop it off and put the rubber on. It's really easy. But I've been wearing it on the bracelet to try and get the full effect because I think that's what If someone buys a watch at this price point from a brand as small and as Vertex, I think that they're gonna wear it on the bracelet would be my guess, or at least that's what they're gonna start on. Yeah, yeah, true, yeah. And how about you? You've got a pretty fun one, right? |
| Host | I do, yeah. Speaking of Lume and Aqualands, this is the Citizen Aqualand JP2007-17W. I'm just calling it the Lume Dial Aqualand because that's what everyone will call it and know it by. |
| Jason Heaton | And to be clear, this is the brand new one. |
| Host | Brand new. Yeah. So, you know, I do have an old one in 1985, first-generation Aqualand C020. And, you know, that's just the steel with the black dial. And this is one that Citizen released, gosh, within the past couple of months, not for the North American market inexplicably, which kind of annoys me, you know, because I really wanted to source one. You know, I had to kind of look around for it, but managed to find one at a very good price. Um, with, with very little wear on it and man, this thing is everything and more. I mean, I, I love it. I, you know, I think this might be the first. Full loom dial watch I've ever had. And maybe people that have known me longer and remember some obscure photo I posted on a forum back in, you know, 2009, remember something different, but I think it's the first loom dial watch I've ever owned. And I just adore it. And what's really cool about this one is, you know, Citizen has essentially been making this exact same watch. Since 1985. I mean, think about that. Like what other, with a few tweaks in terms of the number of batteries and how you take the case back off, it's the same watch. I mean, I put it up next to the other one. The dimensions are identical. Um, you know, the functions are similar. I mean, it's, it's just such a wonderful classic watch now, but then this has this gray, I don't know what finish they use or how they were coding, but it's this dark gray steel. And then the pushers are black and the crown is black. I guess I hadn't really looked that closely at the photos. And then when it arrived, I was like, this thing's like a PVD watch. I mean, it's like a kind of a black ops watch minus this incredibly glowing bright dial, um, which certainly wouldn't pass muster in any sort of a, you know, stealthy situation. But, uh, yeah, I just adore it. I, I, I didn't put it on the supplied rubber strap at all. Um, even though it looks pretty amazing, it's, it's one of kind of citizens, newer style, kind of accordion, kind of heavy, soft rubber with a giant buckle that matches the finish on the case. So it looks great, but you know, it's summer, it's kind of hot and sticky and I don't want to wear rubber. So I've been wearing it on a couple of, the only two 24 millimeter nylon NATOs that I own. I've got a couple more on the way, but it's amazing. |
| Jason Heaton | I love this watch. Yeah. You'd laugh. I was on, I was on my Lufthansa flight home and the flight attendant, she was wearing a citizen dive watch. Oh, wow. And you could tell because she had... It was the old rubber with the ND chart on it. |
| Unknown | Yeah, yeah. |
| Jason Heaton | And it was... You know how they get shiny over time? |
| Unknown | Yeah, right. |
| Jason Heaton | It was like super shiny and I complimented her on it and she's like, oh, it's not that fancy. I'm like, no, no, that's... You're good. That's a cool watch. Yeah. I think that's rad. So cool that you wear it on the strap and in the Lufthansa uniform, it's kind of a mismatch. Yeah, right. Which does kind of speak to some of the stuff we'll talk about today with our various watch rules. Yeah. But always fun to see something like that. I mean, there's always a high propensity of citizen stuff in flight crews because of their prevalence at duty freeze, is my understanding. Oh, sure. Yeah. And this one was great. I didn't get the exact model of the watch. It was an EcoDrive Diver. Couldn't have been more than 40 millimeters and with a black dial, and it was very cool to see. I love it on that strap. Yeah. Yeah. So fun to see them doing stuff that I think is going to speak like directly to enthusiasts with this loom dial. Every picture you post, I'm kind of like, Oh, look at that. |
| Host | That looks awesome. It's so good. With this loom dial, you know, you expect it to be easy to read at night. But when I do my kind of 2 AM, 3 AM, you know, wake up time check, it's actually just kind of this big, big round blob of bright loom. I mean the, The markers kind of get lost in the dial at that time of day, even though they're a slightly different shade of loom, but I don't care. It's just so fun. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. I had the same thing back in the day. I had the, it was a Citizen Aqualand Quartz Chrono with the depth gauge. Oh yeah. So a couple of models down from this, no digital, little tiny chronograph hand, even tinier, itty bitty, almost useless depth gauge. Right. I remember actually the one time that I used it underwater, I was snorkeling in the Grand Caymans and I had the watch on. I brought it on the trip because I was going to snorkeling. I was very excited and we had the loom dial as well, which is the point I was getting to. But I remember, you know, I borrowed a mask from the snorkeling outfit and the masses all chewed up. It had like clearly been poorly treated and it was also just not a very high quality mass. So there's like a visual wave, like a distortion and I would, I would, you know, get a big breath going, dive deep as it could. you know, go down eight or nine feet or whatever it was and try and see this little tiny hand move on the dial. And there's this big distortion in the way, like a, it was occluded by the, by the lens. I remember being very disappointed by that. The things we do. Right. But yeah, I do love a loom dial, even if they don't always mean like significantly better loom. Right. Yeah. Super fun. |
| Host | Well, we were, we were trying to come up with a topic for today and I was just like, you know, I get so many kind of DMS or comments on, on Instagram, or you see them in comments on Houdinki or wherever. And it's like, watch people tend to have very strong opinions about what's right and wrong with watches and how people wear them, you know, for any number of reasons. And the one that was kind of sticking in my craw actually has been for quite a while is every time I post a dive watch on a leather strap, somebody come up, comes in comments and says, that's just wrong. You can't wear a dive watch on leather. And so you and I were chatting about it and we thought, let's, let's do an episode on breaking watch rules. And, uh, yeah. And that was kind of the impetus behind, behind today's. So that's, that's what we're going to focus on is, is a number of rules that, that people seem to hold tight to that we feel should be loosened and broken. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. And like some of these I've, I had heard before, like people saying, you know, obviously don't wear your dive watches on leather, you know, and then I figured, beyond, like if I Google around, like, are these all kind of silly and needlessly restrictive or are some of them generally helpful? Right. Right. And I think the other thing that's worth considering, because we'll get into a few of them, some of them are like borderline silly, some of them make a lot of sense, but like a lot of it comes down to that. Jason, what was the, what was the like saying for Audemars Piguet? |
| Host | It was, first you must know the rules before you break them or something to that effect. |
| Jason Heaton | Something to that effect. And I think a lot of that works. most of these ones that we're going to talk about came from like kind of lesser known or even barely known like style blogs, men's style blogs. And I think from that standpoint, it could be helpful if it was your first watch or you're just getting into watches to try and like understand how to wear them, right? Kind of like knowing like what shoes might go with a certain type of pants or... Yeah. So I think some of these are pretty funny, but let's kick off with that main one with dive watches on leather. Yeah. Is the concept here that They're meant to go underwater. So why would you fit them with leather? |
| Host | Is that all it comes down to? I gather that. And I've been trying to think like, are people trying to be nice and say, you know, you're going to ruin your nice leather strap if you get it wet, because that watch is, is supposed to be underwater. Or is it, or is it more of an aesthetic thing? That's like, no, it just should not have. |
| Jason Heaton | It's like putting leather watches are for leather bands or for dress watches. Yeah. |
| Host | I can't figure it out. Maybe, maybe it's both. Maybe, maybe different people have different motivations for doing that. You know, I guess if you looked at a parallel argument, uh, with cars or something like, would, would you put, I don't know, low profile tires and, and, you know, hubcaps on, on some rims on your Jeep or something like that, you know what I mean? It's just, you, you might cringe, you might say that's not for me, but it can be done, especially if you're, if you're driving around on, on city streets most of the time. And, and yeah, when it comes to dive watches, I mean, I always argue that, well, two points is, is, Straps are very easy to change, and certainly if I go in the water, I will put an appropriate strap on, but I spend 99.5% of my life on dry land, and if the watch looks good on leather, or at least to my eyes, that's how I'll choose to wear it. |
| Jason Heaton | watch enthusiasm. It's just one of those things where every time I see it, I go like, man, who hurt you? Yeah. Like just wear anything you want. Yeah. Yeah. Don't get me wrong. If you're on a dive boat, if you're on a dive boat and you, and you, you know, pull out a citizen Aqualand and it's on some like lizard leather strap, I'm probably going to really wonder what's going on in your life as well. |
| Unknown | Yeah. |
| Host | Yeah. But you might even respect that person for it. Right. You might think, all right, he's, he's, he's got a thing going. |
| Jason Heaton | But yeah, I mean like otherwise like you're going to the office where whatever you want or you're staying home or you're going out with friends and like I think that the aesthetic, the aesthetic qualities of like a nice vintage dive watch or a modern dive watch on a on a suitable leather strap, like I said, maybe don't go with an ostrich green. or something that's meant for a Lange or a Patek or something like that. But you know, a two stitch, a vintage style leather strap, a leather NATO. I think all of those make a ton of sense. I think they look incredible. Granted, I'm super used to that aesthetic because I think it's rooted in the amount of time that you and I have kind of been into watches. Right. Yeah. |
| Host | And I remember, I don't remember what year it was. I want to say 2017, 2018. I had written up, um, it was after Basel and I had seen that rotto captain cook, the original 37 millimeter reissue that they did. And, and they sold the watch on a leather strap. And I had taken some photos and put up the story on Hodinkee. And I think, um, you know, people were like, why is that dive watch on a leather strap? And, you know, that was kind of when, when I first started to become really aware of people kind of making a point of that. And. Now we're seeing more and more dive watches available on leather. I think Tudor might provide some leather straps for, for some of the black bays if I'm not mistaken, but absolutely. Yep. You know, it's a thing. I mean, I, I love wearing like my old T graph or Aqua star or whatever on, on a bun strap. I mean, that's even worse. That's even more heretical than, than just a straight up leather. I mean, it's, it's, it's a lot more leather, you know? And I almost do that nowadays to kind of snub my nose a little bit, you know, kind of push back and be like, look, this is, this is a thing. |
| Jason Heaton | So well, I mean, it worked for Redford. What is he? Yeah, he didn't know what he was doing, right? |
| Unknown | Yeah, come on. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah, not stylish enough for you. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, but I've watched another thing always makes me giggle because it is it is kind of that like forum guy looking over the top of his newspaper, you know, just just just making sure you know, he's upset with how hot his coffee is or isn't at this point in the day and He just wants to make sure that the playing field stays level, that you don't enjoy something too much. You got it on the wrong strap. You shouldn't be doing that. And a lot of that comes down to the shoulds and shouldn'ts, the etiquette of it all. The dive watch on the leather is definitely the most specific one that hits for me. But you get into other ones where it's like, what about the dive watch with a suit? What about a dive watch with a tuxedo? What about a dress watch with jeans? How closely should a watch match your outfit? And the other one that links up for me that I saw on a lot of these style blogs is don't wear the same watch every day. Like the fact that having ones that alternate to kind of match what you're wearing that day. And I was like, guys, if somebody's into their first watch, let them buy it and wear it for a year or two or six months. You're telling people on Reddit, like young guys on Reddit, young women on Reddit, they're just getting into this, that they need six watches? Yeah. Yeah. And I don't know, for me, a dive watch with a suit doesn't really bother me anymore, right? Right, right. I think it did, and I still think you can do better. I think a vintage watch with a suit is better, but obviously with a tux, it seems insane to wear a dive watch, just because a tux is so kind of sleek and tailored, right? Yeah. And so I think that comes down to personal style and or lack thereof, which I also don't think people need to be so upset about or worried about. Most of us just kind of live our lives in whatever we find comfortable and that suits our personality. And I think you should say the exact same thing about your watch. If you're going to a wedding or whatever and wearing a suit and you've got your Seamaster, it's good enough for Bond. It'd be okay. If you're putting on a tux, if you're going to a black tie soiree, just leave your watch at home. |
| Host | Yeah. Don't even worry about it. Right. I think when Connery had the Rolex sub on his wrist on a NATO strap with his white tux in, um, at the beginning of gold finger and he kind of pulls back his sleeve to check the time. I think that is kind of the moment that, that people felt was the turning point for kind of breaking the rules. And, and, you know, Connery can be kind of the honorary third invisible, um, co-host on this episode, because, you know, that was all about breaking the rules. And I think it became this moment of, Um, sprezzatura could be, could be the term used here, you know, kind of something that is unexpected, but adds a little panache to what he's doing. But in that case, it was more of this observation or this acknowledgement that he was coming directly from some clandestine dangerous mission. Right. And, you know, this is a little hint that, that, you know, he's, he set the bezel to, to when he had set the explosives and he was kind of checking that. Um, I don't think it was necessarily a style choice, but then it kind of pervaded. And now we saw even in, Casino Royale, when, when Daniel Craig's character is sitting across from LaChief playing poker with a tuxedo on, he's, he's wearing the, the, the Seamaster as well. So it kind of persisted. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. I think you have to decide if you see it as a bond thing and you're not bond, of course, or if it's something that you kind of like, like, I don't, I don't really love how prescriptive the idea that dressing a certain way is something you should do. Right. I've really come, like, you know, this is something Jason, that you and I talk about, or used to joke about a lot. Like there, there, you, I used to feel a huge amount of pressure. when I'd go on press trips to really align with the sport business, casual garden, chic garden, chic summer, like all these. And now I just wear whatever I'm comfortable in. And like, if, if, if you're, if you've already invited me to the other side of the world to go to some garden party, you're probably not going to care as long as I'm not way off base. I'm not showing up in, in, you know, a tank top and cargo shorts and, you know, a pair of gas station flip-flops. Although I'm not against that in the right setting either. Um, and then, and then, you know, on the inverse, like, uh, if, if I'm going to dress up, I do, I like, if I'm putting that much thought into my whole outfit, I kind of extend that to my watch as well. And in that scenario, if I'm doing the suit, I wouldn't wear a dive watch, but it also, I wouldn't hold it against someone who did. I wouldn't say like, well, they don't know what they're doing. Cause I just, I don't, I think that one, I think like the rules of formality, unless you're in a certain crust of society have become pretty permeated. Right. If you live in, you know, people who are listening to this and live in LA might get a chuckle out of this, might be loosely offended. But if you're like a really rich guy in LA, you wear a $30,000 watch and a $15 t-shirt, right? Like it, like it, it's all, it's all just kind of whatever suits the environment. And I think that that's how a watch works as well. It has to suit your environment. It has to suit your tastes as much as the suit with the dive watch is one thing. I really love a casual dress watch. Yeah. I take, take a watch that someone would normally wear with a suit. or, or, you know, in a formal environment and, and, and match it with something much more casual, um, a little bit of tailoring, maybe a pair of shoes that aren't runner or something like that. And I think you can go a long way with that. Look, I've, I've appreciated it basically as long as I've been into gold watches because it just offers such a different, um, like personal experience than, than a sport watch. |
| Host | Yeah. And I have to chuckle because I think, uh, you and I both conjure this, a similar image of, of the, the flip side of the dive watch with a suit is that the dress watch I'm cutting the grass with the dress watch, right? It's Don Draper after work with his sleeves rolled up. Yeah. Like, like his white undershirt dress slacks, you know, pushing the lawnmower around with a cigarette in his mouth and his dress watch on that's less, I think people would find that less egregious, maybe a little bit more like, you know, almost a power move. You know, it's like you're wearing your old, you know, Jaeger LeCoultre or something on a leather strap to, to cut the grass because that's what you had on when you got home from work. And I, you know, speaking of that, I mean, I, I've got this on ordain model one with the enamel dial that I've had for a couple of years that I got when we were doing our dress watch discomfort episode a while back. And I was thinking what would make me wear that watch a little more because I do love it. It's just not quite my lifestyle. I tend to wear rough and tumble kind of stuff because of the things I do. And I think part of the barrier for me to, for, to wearing that watch more regularly was it came on this like goats, goatskin, strap that was a little bit shiny. It was beautiful, but you know, just didn't quite go with like summer weather and, you know, gardening and that sort of thing. I mean, the watch has 50 meters water resistance, Sapphire crystal, it should be just fine. So I put it on a 18 millimeter gray NATO and it kind of sings on that strap. It works. It's almost like it slotted into like a sweet spot for me that I can, I can wear more often now. |
| Jason Heaton | No, I think that makes a lot of sense. And, and, you know, to, to kind of wrap up this one about dressing with certain watches with certain things, like, this idea that a watch should match your outfit, I don't necessarily agree with as much as the outfit should reflect your personal style or at least the style that you're attempting to go for. And the watch should support that as much as possible. Does that mean that because you're going to a wedding and maybe you're buying a new suit, you should also buy a new watch for that wedding? No, I don't think so. Right. Yeah. I think the idea that you can't wear the same watch every day is counter to what we talk about a lot on TGM with the one watch guy, one watch gal, someone who's kind of figured out what it is they want. I think it's hard for someone right at the start of their watch journey or right at the end of their watch journey. And I would say the same thing for someone's personal style journey, which really evolves over time. There's a point where you start caring and then, and then there's a point where you feel like you figured stuff out just for you. And there's a big Delta between the two. And I think that's the same with watches and you have to kind of respect whatever stage you're at in that one and not be too concerned with, um, with what it is and what it isn't. Because if you're even thinking about it, I think that puts you a step ahead of others who like are, aren't just, aren't like could be wearing something that just doesn't work at all in terms of looking considered or thoughtful or, or, or like they were going for something versus just kind of passive. |
| Host | Yeah. And I think, you know, you, you mentioned the Lufthansa flight attendant with, with her citizen on the no deco strap. And, and it makes me think that, you know, the, the, the watch you wear, it's perhaps the most personal kind of item that you wear most often that can go from one setting to another. And, and therefore it, it almost is the best reflection of who you are is if you're into watches is, is the watch you're wearing. And it makes me think of, um, my old, you know, best friend from, from growing up in Milwaukee, kind of like my dive buddy, uh, Chris, he, he has his original Aqua land from that. I think he got in the early nineties and, you know, when he was getting into diving and wore it everywhere. In fact, it's arriving here today because he wants me to change the batteries for him, uh, on it. Right. You know, my memories of him were always with that watch on his wrist. And, and I, I stood up in his wedding when he got married, you know, I don't know, 15 years ago, whatever. And he was wearing that watch with, with, you know, his, his tuxedo, like standing up there, like this beat up old watch with the shiny, you know, plastic no deco strap. And like, you think that that just looks terrible with a tuxedo, but it's like, That's him. Yeah. You see that on his wrist and during the, during the reception, you know, toasts and dancing with his bride and whatever. And it's like, it, it hints at who he is. That's, that's the guy that he is. And I admire that. Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. |
| Jason Heaton | Do you have any other, any other ones come to mind? |
| Host | Well, I mean, you know, when it comes to specifically to like vintage watches another comment that I get, you know, or hear regularly is, you know, don't, you know, I've, I've got a couple of old, vintage watches that have had parts replaced, for instance, new hands or hands have been re-loomed or, you know, something. And a lot of people are like, don't, you shouldn't touch, you shouldn't polish a vintage watch, don't replace the parts. And I understand that argument a little bit more than the dive watches on leather. If you're buying this watch as kind of an investment and you want to kind of preserve its originality for some sort of future resale value. But I kind of like this notion that especially with something like You know, like a dive watch, for instance, had the original owner kept that watch from new and, and just kind of wanted it to keep performing as, as he originally bought it, he would have, or she would have replaced hands for, or had it relumed or a new crystal or had the case polished or, or something. Um, so that it continued to function as he wanted it and. Right. That's kind of the way I feel as well. Um, you know, certainly you can save old parts, you can save old hands, you can replace dials and keep the original dial. But I like the idea that like if you, if you do keep up an old watch and you do get it serviced and you do have some things replaced, the watch can continue to go on being functional rather than like just deteriorating. And I know that that's a bit of a controversial point of view, but it's, it's a, it's something I feel fairly strongly about. |
| Jason Heaton | I think where that comes from a lot of it is this fascination with originality and unrestored watches. Yeah. And the truth is that the actuality of those in the market, especially if you're talking about something like vintage Rolex, is less than anyone's claiming. Right. Right. Most have been serviced. Most have been... Maybe they've had something kind of tweaked or were done before they were worth a bunch of money. Yeah. Every now and then, sure, you get ones that were, say, purchased and then barely worn or purchased and worn without a care. But typically, maintenance is part of a something, right? And we're not suggesting a ship of Theseus here where there's none of the original watch left or you polish it to the extent that it no longer looks like the right watch, which also happens occasionally. But I think the idea is if this is your watch and you don't like the fact that the loom in the minute hand has kind of fallen out, I would see what your options were and how those could align with your expectations. Obviously, if you plan on selling the watch and being able to say that it's unrestored and original with all that patina, if that part is important to you, then obviously follow... Do what's right with you. But the thing is with these rules, with any rule really, it doesn't account for the personal. It accounts for the general, right? And I think it is a good generalist rule because I think a lot of people take their watch in for service and just have whatever's done to it, done to it, and then it comes back and It doesn't have all the stories left on it. It doesn't have the scratches. It doesn't have this, this or that. And so much so that a lot of brands now you basically define what you want them to do. Right. So you can have a mechanical overhaul which is largely considered normal and fine. Keep the watch running correctly. Maybe a new part here or there, gaskets or, you know, is it, is it, is it not original if the gaskets have been changed? Right. Yeah. But I do agree that this idea that the watch might end up being something that you don't want. Yeah. Yeah. It makes that rule kind of problematic. I think with all of these, I think what we're trying to say is like, you should feel free to enjoy watches how you want to enjoy them. |
| Host | Yeah. I think that's the moral of this, of this whole story. And I think that leads to kind of another one that's on both of our lists here. And that is kind of the whole size debate. And I think this has come up in, it came up in a Q and a not long ago about a specific Certina that somebody was on the fence about because he thought it might be too big for his wrist, but he really loved the way it looked. And I think our advice to him was, you know, lean into it. Like if there's nothing wrong with like, if a watch looks too big on your wrist, but you still like it, go for it. I mean, I think there's something to, you know, it depends on how you wear it too. How confident you are with that on your wrist. If it's uncomfortable, then it's, it's a bad choice. But yeah. Um, size has become a real, um, dividing issue among kind of watch commenters and Instagram folks and whatever else. |
| Jason Heaton | Like the, like at a certain point the watch is what it is and there's so many options. You can find one that's, that's your size. Yeah. I think it's important to talk about watch sizing when we talk about how it fits you, but not in terms of the veracity of the watch. Panerai is still selling 47mm watches. Seiko is still selling 32mm watches. There's a market for these things, it just may not be you. And I think the idea that a watch should be a certain size is way more helpful at the start of somebody's watch buying world. so they don't buy something online that's four or five millimeters too big or too small and entirely miss the boat, right? Right. I think... So I do like the idea of suggesting like, hey, make sure you understand how the watch will wear, what's gonna be too big or too small for your wrist, rather than... Because I knew a ton of folks who back in the heyday of the SKX007 bought one without even considering how it might wear, and they just didn't have a wrist quite big enough for it. Oh, yeah. and it wears kind of big, it flops around. They didn't look into the SKX013, which is a 37 millimeter model. And so I do feel it when you're at the start, but once you get to a certain point, kind of like with a personal style, I think you should do what you want. We had a fun episode chatting about big watches and the fact that they represent a different appeal than not only because they are currently outside of the normal stuff you're going to see every day on uh, and most watch websites and, and, and, and on Instagram and Reddit and the rest of it, where the, the, the mind share of the kind of core watch enthusiasts is, you know, 38 to 40 or 37 to 41 or whatever it is. This is one of those rules where like in the right scenario, when you can learn the math well enough, you can start to bend it and have a really good time with some larger or smaller watches. |
| Host | Yeah. I mean, and you know, most people kind of lean hard on the, on the watches too big kind of side of things. But I can remember, you know, like going back to that Rado Captain Cook, it was 37 and I loved it. I've got a 38 millimeter Blancpain. Whenever I post photos, I inevitably get questions. Do you find that it wears too small? It's like, well, clearly if I'm posting a photo and if I own it and wear it, um, I don't find it too small. I think it's, it's quite a, a perfect size actually. And sometimes you're in the mood for a smaller watch. And then some days I want to pull out, you know, like my supermarine 2000 and, and wear something big and heavy. So, you know, it really does. It's not even just personal taste. It's personal taste on, on a given day and, and maybe what your outfit is, what, what you're feeling that day. Yeah. Once again, moral of the story is like live and let live, you know, people, people will wear what, what they want. And I think that's the strongest kind of statement we can make is like, you know, be yourself, like be confident with your watch and wear what you love. Same goes for brands. I mean, this wasn't on our list, but like specific brands, like if you like, if you want to wear a Steinhardt or a, you know, um, you know, an Invicta, I mean, I'm, I'm not, I'm certainly not a fan of, of what Invicta does or any of their watches, but like, if that's your thing, like wear it. And if you roll up to a get together and you've got that watch and you're proud of it and love it. Great. |
| Jason Heaton | You know, more power to you. I mean, like there's a question, there's a question of like, uh, people in our position having a presumed sense of taste. Yeah. And a lot of that comes from trying a bunch of stuff and then picking what we like. And if everybody had the same path, then it's not really taste as much as it's just attrition. And I do think that, yeah, the Invicta thing is a good example. Watches are a personal thing because you don't need them. So it's passion alone, really, for a lot of us. And I think if that was the thing that you like... And for me, that was my intro to mechanical watches, with stuff like inexpensive Seikos and Rolex knockoffs. made by Invicta. And I think without those, I don't know how much further I would have gotten. I don't want to wear one now. And the elitist side of my brain kind of cringes when I think back on those. But that's still part of the path, right? Yeah. And I think, you know, you do get... I think there's one thing to offer guidance. And I think it's another thing to offer kind of unsolicited advice. Yeah. Or just kind of snootiness. And sometimes it can be hard to separate the two. Even, you know, in my scenario, it can be hard to separate the two and try and be helpful without suggesting like, oh, well, what you're doing is wrong though. Yeah. Uh, cause that's not true. It just isn't. Yeah. Watches aren't that important. There's no wrong. |
| Host | Right. Yeah. I think that's, uh, that's probably a good statement to kind of end out this, uh, the segment on unless you've got, you've got another rule to break. Um, I think we've covered a number of them. |
| Jason Heaton | I can buzz through a couple of these. There's some weird, weird ones. Like, um, have you, did you come across this one? Uh, dark with dark light with light. Don't wear... So you wear dark dials at night and light dials during the day? I've never heard that. That's buck wild. Don't listen to that rule. Wear the dial you like. Oh my gosh. When do I wear light blue then? Yeah. Or medium blue? Where do I wear a gray dial? Only around lunch? Come on. Oh my gosh. That's crazy. Yeah. Oh, the specific wrist? Wear the watch on the wrist that you want. |
| Host | Oh yeah. Okay. I got that one about the Aqualand. I was wearing this Aqualand, which has this bulbous depth gauge on the left side. And I, I'm wearing my watch on my right wrist. That's I'm left-handed. I've kind of gone back to that in the past few years. And, and you know, I can understand that argument that it might interfere, but somebody is like, that's a big no-no to me that commented. And I was like, why? Like if it's comfortable for me, then who cares if it's a no-no for you. That's fine. |
| Jason Heaton | But yeah. Yeah, no, that, that one, that one gets me as well. Otherwise a lot of them are like those, you know, like style stuff, like, Oh, you always match your leathers, which I personally believe in, but it's easy. Cause I don't wear black. Always match your medals. As I get older, that matters less. Uh, you know, I've only got one wedding ring. I haven't decided to get a gold one to go with my gold watches, that sort of thing. So. |
| Host | Well, okay. Now here's, here's, here's one riffing on that. Like what about the hardware on your NATO strap with the kind of the color of the metal of the watch? That's a bit of a pet peeve, a personal pet peeve of mine. It's troubling to me. It is for mine, but I still break it a lot. Particularly with this dark gray Aqualand, I can't find you know, a NATO strap. |
| Jason Heaton | Like a gun metal finish. Yeah. Yeah. This is one of those things where it looks best. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. Like it's just like a dark cased watch is going to be better with dark hardware. Right. A gold or bronze watch. You should have gold or bronze hardware. I think that makes sense. Especially because right when it's one thing for your ring or I read like sunglasses, your necklace, your bracelet, your cufflinks. Like, wow. Goodness sakes. Like I get it. They all have to be white metal or, or not. Cufflinks. I wear cufflinks a lot. So that's a big concern of mine. But when it comes to the watch itself, I feel the same way about you. This is one where I would actually suggest, like if you buy a watch and you're a big NATO fan, which of course we would understand, and maybe the truth is maybe we got to do our future TGN edition in a PVD. Yeah, really? Yeah. So that we have, everybody in the crowd can have an easy black wearing option. I always think it's weird when I do it, but it doesn't commonly stop me from doing it. But if it's a watch I own versus one I'm borrowing, I'm going to find a strap that matches correctly for sure. Yeah. Yeah. Not a rule, but definitely a suggestion. Right. But yeah, I do think that rounds it up. And, and, and like we said earlier, this ultimately comes down to like knowing where you are in your watch journey. Like how much, have an idea of how much you know or don't know, and then decide if the rules actually help you. But if they get in the way of enjoying watches, give them up. I think you're good. |
| Host | Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think that was a fun episode and I think this will be one that I have, I predict that it will get a lot of comments, uh, on Substack and I, yeah, I hope so too. |
| Jason Heaton | I bet you we forgot some funny rules too. |
| Host | Yeah. Yeah. And maybe, maybe people will, will, jump on with, with some hopefully tongue in cheek, uh, new rules for us and, and shame us for, for a few other things we do. Cause I'm sure you and I are breaking rules without even knowing about we're deeply stylish guys. All right. Please, as we mentioned, please do jump onto sub stack at the great NATO.com, uh, hit notes and, and go in there and, uh, and feel free to leave a comment. Uh, we'd love to hear what you think about these rules made to be broken. Um, your thoughts on them, any new rules. Um, things you've heard, uh, we'd love to hear from you. |
| Jason Heaton | Maybe we should do a follow-up at some point, like, uh, with Brian from, uh, he spoke style and we can, like, I, I trust his word on a lot of the stuff. He's a watch guy as well. Oh yeah. And certainly a stylish guy, a guy that's devoted a lot of his time to helping people figure out their style and he does a good job. So maybe whatever we got wrong, um, let's, let's, let's cook that crow with a, with a professional and, uh, and really enjoy it on a future episode. That could be fun. |
| Host | Yeah, definitely. How about, uh, final notes? You've got, uh, got a good one this week. |
| Jason Heaton | You know, I do. I have an interesting one that I picked up recently and I'm sure some of you, especially those of you who live in climates similar to Jason and mine already know about these, but I'd given, I'd kind of rolled my eyes at the, like the, the mosquito repeller little units. Right. Yeah. And then this, this summer that they were already so bad and I tend to have a pretty strong reaction, like a histamine reaction to mosquito bites. And like a couple of times I've ended up with like 30 or 40. Oh, oof. in a weekend, and I end up feeling kind of unwell. Yeah. And it's bad for my kids as well. They're super sensitive. So I bought one of these thermocells. It's like a little unit that you USB recharge that essentially aerates this liquid that's in a cartridge. |
| Unknown | Oh, sure. |
| Jason Heaton | It's called this one that I got specifically called the Radius Gen 2 Mosquito Repeller. It was 50 bucks. It does a 20 foot radius, so like around a dinner table near a fire where a small group of people are sitting. And you can spend way more money and get ones that do larger areas. But this is a little thing that you recharge over USB. It runs for, I don't know, seven or eight hours or something like that. And then it doesn't have DEET. There's nothing messy about it. There's nothing fire inside or like there's not an open flame. And then you basically put a cartridge of this liquid in it. And the cartridges are anywhere from like, I want to say the one it came with is 12 hours. And then I bought two 80-hour cartridges, which cost as much as the machine. And then you just kind of leave it. It does, like I said, about a 20-foot radius. And I was pretty skeptical. The two times we've used it so far, it seems to work. There were bugs and then there aren't. If there's a little bit of wind, put it upwind from you. If there's a lot of wind, you probably don't have to worry about bugs in that scenario. I think it's worth the 50 bucks to at least give it a try, especially if you exist in an area that has a mosquito problem. The cottage has a terrible one. So far, so good. Maybe I'll end up getting one of the big boy ones in the future. |
| Host | Yeah, that's, it's, it's a good idea. I mean, mosquitoes have been bad this year compared to last year. We had a bit of a drought and so there just weren't a lot of mosquitoes and I think people got used to it here and this year they've been pretty fierce. And this reminds me of, uh, in Sri Lanka every time I've been going for many years that they use, and I'm sure many other parts of the world as well, these what are called mosquito coils. And it's like this weird coiled crumbly material that you set in a little frame and then you light it with a match and it sort of gives off this, uh, the smoke that keeps the purportedly keeps the mosquitoes away. I haven't found it to be terribly effective. It has a very distinctive smell that sort of always reminds me of Sri Lanka. I don't know how good it is to inhale and people light them inside and outside. And then now they've evolved to kind of a plugin version of it. So, um, I'd love to try this. I think, you know, we have an outdoor outlet, uh, kind of under our pergola on our back patio. And I think this would be, uh, definitely something to look into so that we can extend our time outside rather than having to flee indoors at 7pm. |
| Jason Heaton | And that's the plus being rechargeable. You don't even need the outlet. |
| Unknown | Oh, right, right. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. You charge it overnight or during the day when the bugs aren't a problem and then you take it out and it always seems to last and it just charges over USB-C. Yeah. So you've got those cables around. You don't have to like remember a special plug or some garbage like that for the cottage or whatever. Yeah. Yeah. I've used those coils before. I've used the citronella candles. I've used basically the electric ones where they zap when they hit it. Yeah. In my experience so far, this works better than those. And you don't have a smell, there's no noticeable odor. I like that it's not deep, right? Especially with kids, right? So yeah, seemingly a good product. I'm not sure I could say that it's placebo because I would just have bug bites, I think. I don't think that having one around would allow me to suppress that response. But yeah, I'm impressed so far for the 50 bucks. It seems like a good value. What have you got this week? |
| Host | Yeah, mine is a great movie. Stumbled upon it on Netflix. It's called The River Runner. Uh, it's about, um, it's a documentary, um, an extreme kayaker named Scott Lindgren. And I remember seeing Scott Lindgren on the cover of outside magazine back in the nineties. And, you know, I've never paid a lot of attention to kind of the, the whitewater kayak scene, um, other than kind of some of the big stories, you know, these first descents in Tibet or in Africa and whatever. And it's always frightening to watch footage of, of what these guys are doing in these big, massive boiling class five rivers. And, and Scott was kind of one of the pioneers of a lot of that back in his heyday in the nineties. And, uh, you know, I lost track of him, didn't pay much attention, but this documentary, uh, was interesting because, you know, we're, we're obviously big fans of these climbing documentaries, uh, you know, free solo, Meru, the Alpinist, et cetera. And I think this is in that same vein, except it's a, it's a kayak riff on that theme where it profiles this one extreme athlete. And, and his accomplishments, but then also his challenges because he kind of lost his way. Um, as he sort of got to a certain age, um, he had a kind of a troubled upbringing and kayaking was his outlet. And then when he had some physical challenges and a pretty scary diagnosis, he kind of fell away from kayaking and his life kind of started to fall apart. And then he, when he rediscovered kayaking with kind of a younger, newer generation of paddlers, um, he was able to kind of complete this lifelong. mission of, of paddling the, what are called the four great rivers that come down from Mount Kailash, which is the sacred mountain over in Tibet. And it's just fascinating. The footage is spectacular. Um, you know, you were almost watching between your fingers at some points to see some of the rivers these guys are running and, uh, really well done. So I highly recommend the river runner on, uh, on Netflix, if you like that kind of film. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah, very cool. Yeah, that sounds awesome. I have seen that on my Netflix. I think we got an email about it or maybe I got a DM. Oh, okay. Uh, some, I'm sure someone in the audience is like, Hey, yeah, I suggested that. So yeah, that sounds really good. You know, my Netflix queue grows ever longer as the sunlight in the day grows longer. So that, that, uh, that sounds like a good one though. A good one, probably a good one for kicking back at the cottage, that sort of thing. Yeah, definitely. Well, hey, that was a pretty solid episode, I think. As Jason mentioned before, if you've got something as far as a watch rule, one that you think is good, one that you think is silly, one that we missed, one that we got wrong, let us know. Happy to chat about it in the comments. The sub stack has been popping off lately. It's going really well. I'm getting a lot of good recommendations and feedback and just a general conversation in there. So if you haven't been involved, check it out at thegraynado.com. You can make yourself an account for free. We deliver the show right to your email with the notes and the rest of it. And as always, we thank you so much for listening. And if you want to get involved, you can do that at thegraynado.com. Music throughout is Siesta by Jazzar via the Free Music Archive. |
| Host | And we leave you with this fitting quote from Albert Einstein, who said, I have only two rules which I regard as principles of conduct. The first is, have no rules. The second is, be independent of the opinion of others. |