The Grey NATO – 186 – Marshall Sutcliffe Of 'Wristwatch Revival'
Published on Thu, 24 Mar 2022 06:58:00 -0400
Synopsis
Marshall Sutcliffe is the host of the popular YouTube channel Wristwatch Revival, where he films himself restoring old watches. He got into watchmaking several years ago after previously working in video production and wanting a more hands-on hobby. Marshall discusses how he taught himself watchmaking through online courses and learning from other enthusiasts. He shares insights into his process for filming the restorations, the tools and equipment he uses, and the types of watches he enjoys working on. Marshall also talks about potentially expanding into more complicated watch movements like chronographs in the future as his skills progress. Jason and James ask Marshall about his background, his passion for watchmaking, and the production aspects of his YouTube videos. They explore why Marshall prefers restoring vintage watches rather than modern ones, and how he finds interesting old timepieces to work on. Marshall explains that while watchmaking is a challenging craft to learn, there are good resources available for amateurs who want to try their hand at simple repairs and restorations. Overall, it's an engaging discussion about Marshall's unique hobby and creative online video series.
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Transcript
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| Jason Heaton | Hello and welcome to another episode of The Graynado, a loose discussion of travel, diving, driving, gear, and most certainly watches. This is episode 186 and it's proudly brought to you by the recently formed TGN supporter crew. We thank you all so much for your continued support and if you're out there and are not sure what that means or if you'd like to join, please do visit thegraynado.com for more details. James, uh, last, uh, recording here before we jet off for different parts of the world, different parts of the world. Yeah. How are you doing? |
| James | I'm okay. I'm okay. Yeah. You know, the warm weather's back. Um, you know, we, we had some like legitimately warm days recently. I was outside cleaning my Jeep, which really needed it, especially the interior is full of French fries and spilled coffee and things like that. So that was nice. Salty footwells. Yes. Yeah. All of that kind of stuff for sure. Uh, I couldn't quite figure out all the salt. I need an even better vacuum. Yeah. But yeah, I mean the, I guess the big update is this is a, when we're recording this, there's about 36 hours left in the TGN auction for Ukraine and it's at $11,500. And I kind of like that's so much money. I can't even figure it out. You know what I mean? |
| Jason Heaton | I know, I know. It, it, it shot up very quickly. Yeah. Last week when we announced it and we were just like excitedly writing to each other back and forth, it's up to this, it's up to this. And then, and then it kind of leveled off at 11 five and it's been there for a while. I mean, exceeded any expectation I had for sure. |
| James | Absolutely. I mean, yeah, we, we will, we'll wait obviously until it's finished and, uh, and let the, um, the winner decide how much publicity they want. If they want to come on the show and talk about it, all of that is on the table or none of it. Yeah. Whatever makes them most comfortable. Yeah. I mean, I'm like, uh, I'm a little bit lost for words. It's so much money and I'm so happy about it. Yeah. And, uh, I couldn't, I couldn't be more thrilled by not only the bidders that ponied up the bids. And then of course, whatever the high bid ends up being, like you said, it's currently sitting at 11.5. And a huge thank you to everyone who shared the post, who commented about it, who put it on their Instagram and the rest of it. It made a big difference. And I want to say that, like, this isn't something that Jason and I feel like we did. It's something that is, you know, essentially tied to the high bidder and to all of these great companies that stepped up to kind of support this project. You can see the list on Instagram of everyone who decided to offer something up, including some personal listeners and bigger companies, Hodinkee and Braemont and Super Alpine. And it was just really, really incredible. And we're going to do a bigger download about all of those brands and the rest of it once we have the final results. So that'll be in the coming weeks and possibly when we have the high bidder on. I think that would be another good time to make sure we highlighted this. It's a real team effort, and I couldn't be happier with how it's gone. So we wanted to at least highlight that. Maybe it'll be a little higher, but by the time this episode comes out, the auction will be over, and we'll be moving on to making sure the high bidder gets all the goodies, and we'll see if they want to come on an episode sometime in the near future. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah, definitely. In fact, just before we started recording here on a Tuesday, the last of the auction goods arrived. They got a box from the Houdinki shop with that Lovely Benruth type one dive watch and a bun strap and a watch roll. Nice. Yeah. And, and, you know, cantonment a little kerchief kit arrived yesterday and we've got the Bramont folly clock and, and Colson keen leather journal. It's, it's all sitting here in a box right next to me. And I'm so excited to get that packed up and shipped off to whoever won this. So yeah, thanks again to everybody who not only bid and helped spread the word, but also especially to those brands that, that really pitched in for this. So super, super encouraging. Yeah. So, you know, it's funny, we're, we're recording this and it'll go live just, um, I don't know, a few hours after, after the winner is finally kind of determined. So we, we can't really, you know, name the winner or the final result, but we'll, we'll definitely do that in the coming weeks. So super exciting. But in the meantime, we've got, uh, we've got an exciting episode today and then you and I are taking a week off to, uh, to jet off. Um, as I mentioned at the top here, you're going, you're off to Geneva on Sunday, right? |
| James | Monday. I leave on Monday. |
| Jason Heaton | Monday. |
| James | Yeah. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. Exciting. That's watches and wonders. |
| James | You know, it's the, the, the transit part of it is stressful. Um, you know, the lack of direct flights is always worrisome. Uh, I don't want a complication. That means that I end up late to the party or unable to make it to the party or unable to fulfill my duties as an editor for Hodinke while I'm there and that sort of thing. But I am excited to see the watches. I'm excited to see some old friends, right? um, to experience some normalcy, if that makes sense. Right. And then much like with, with Miami, um, it is kind of nice to have some movement, like some physical movement through the world again. Uh, you know, it looks like more and more of the scenarios are being, of the restrictions are being lifted or, or kind of minimized. Uh, so that should make the travel, you know, good. Uh, but obviously I still want it to also be safe. It's, it's that mix, right. Right. But, uh, there's been some really amazing stuff already kind of, coming out in new watch season, you know, Bulgari just broke a world record the, you know, the evening before we recorded this with a watch, that's 1.8 millimeters thick. I highly recommend checking that out. It's not really in our general mind space, but just for the watchmaking element of it, Jack did a beautiful job covering it. And, and so we'll put that in the show notes. If you want to dig in deeper to that, that's a, you know, I'm sure it's a small fortune. but also very, very cool. I don't know how you make something. If it's any thinner, how does it not just come apart, right? Or bend? |
| Jason Heaton | It's that little wafer that you like crack in half to like dip in something. Yeah, exactly. |
| James | It is, it is one of those things. It's a joke I have with my wife. It is one of those things where when something gets really thin, it does, it does kind of seem like a food. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And, and sometimes I say this to people and they look at you like you're a complete psycho, but like a really thin wine glass, kind of feels like I want to take a bite out. Yeah. I get that. You know what I mean? It's a, it's a weird, it's a little bit like that. Yeah. Or it's even just, it's one of those like back of the mind things where you're like, well, I wouldn't do it, but there's a little bit of me that's like bite it. Right. Right. And it's a little bit like when you stand on a really tall bridge or building right against the edge and like a little tiny piece of you goes like you could jump. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. Yeah. Or the big red button that says don't push. And you're like, exactly. |
| James | Exactly. Yeah, there's that weird that weird. It's like it's not a reptile brain thing. It's dumber than that. Yeah, but it's it there's that little tiny very problematic voice back there. Yeah. Yeah. Some some some neat stuff for sure. Just insanely thin. Good luck beating that one. And and yeah, you're you're going to a different part of the world. Yeah. And I can't really complain about my travel scenario because I'm like 13 or 14 hours to get to, to Geneva from Toronto. Uh, you're going quite a bit further and quite a bit longer. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. I think door to door we will be, uh, we'll be in planes and airports for 27 hours straight. So we're, we're headed off to Sri Lanka. Kashani and I are, are leaving next week and, and it's a long time coming. It's not, um, you know, there's never going to be an ideal time anymore, I feel like, but you know, it had been, years since, uh, since we've been able to see her, her parents and her family and friends over there. And so we're, we're finally taking the plunge. It seemed like a good window of opportunity to sneak in and, and fly over there. So we'll be there actually the entire month of April. We arrive on April 1st and we fly out of there on, on April 30th. I've got a one month or a 30 day visa, so I've got to leave the country or get renewed or whatever. But yeah, um, situation there isn't, isn't ideal. They've got a fuel shortages and foreign currency shortages and some Uh, you know, lines for food at the grocery stores. I mean, it's, it's a bit of a mess, but like I said, there, there's never going to be a perfect time to go and, and we're really there to, to see family and I'll be, I'll be working as normal. I'll be, I'll be writing and, and we're going to try to record a couple of episodes of TGN while I'm there. I should have decent wifi between any, any power cuts or, uh, or little, little issues, but I think we'll be fine. And then of course we prerecorded a couple of episodes. So yeah. I think it'll be fine. And I'll, I'll give the full download, you know, in, in some chit chat on the next episode that we do from there. And then we'll probably do something later in April where I kind of give the full, you know, the full good, bad and ugly from, from what it's been like. So, but I'm, I'm looking forward to it. It's a, it is exciting to get to the other part of the world. And you know, if I can sneak in some, some diving and a little bit of adventuring, uh, that'd be great. Otherwise it'll just be, you know, Uh, daily walks around the, the paddy fields there and looking at birds and lizards and monkeys and that sort of thing. So we'll, I'd love to see a lizard. Yeah. There's like monitor lizards, like these big monitor lizards that are right in the paddy fields. You go for your morning walk to get a cup of tea. And it's like, yeah, it's very, very different than our garden here. |
| James | Well, that sounds great. I'm glad you guys are getting back there. Even if it's not necessarily, I mean, not an ideal scenario for the people of Sri Lanka, but I'm sure it'll be great to be back there and spend some time and even just Just to change the walls around. Yeah. You know what I mean? I think so. Especially for writing a book or, or, you know, digging into kind of larger projects that change of pace, that change of scenery and horizon and light and the rest of it can be really helpful. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. And Hey, if I don't know if we actually have any TGN listeners in Sri Lanka, I hope we do. If anybody out there feels inclined, you know, drop an email at the graynado at gmail.com. If there's a chance and it's a makes sense to, to meet up, uh, or if you have any tips or, or anything you just want to mention, uh, feel free to write and I will be there the month of April. So it could be kind of cool. Very cool. |
| James | Yeah. And what's the scenario with the cats? How'd they do? |
| Jason Heaton | Oh, the cats, they went home. So we were cat sitting for 10 days and for, for two young cats and they left late last night. So I picked up our friends who were in Belize, uh, for, for 10 days, I picked them up and brought them back and then they created them up and took them home. So, you know, We really miss them now. I mean, they were so high energy and such. I don't want to say a lot of work. They just demand a lot of attention. You know, they're young and into everything. Um, but they're gone and it's, it feels kind of empty again. You know, we lost both of our cats last year and, and we were craving that interaction and, and they were so fun and so friendly and, and, and now they're gone. But, uh, yeah, we finally, we had a good full night's sleep. Let's put it that way. |
| James | They're awfully cute. I really enjoyed the pictures and such on Instagram. That's so much fun. Cats are great. Yeah. Let's see. What else have I got here? Oh, I finished... We talked about it briefly on a couple other episodes. I finally finished The Goldfinch. Oh, yeah. Probably the longest work of fiction I've read in a long time. Donna Tartt's, which she won the Pulitzer for. Wow. Man, is it something else. Really? Wow. It's so good. It's so good. And it held me through the whole book and then the ending. wasn't what I expected. Um, it, it, it's not as, um, well, there's a lot of darkness in it, much like there is in secret history, but it's a completely different sort of scope. And she does such a fantastic job of writing, uh, the first person and in a male perspective, uh, really remarkable. Uh, if, if you were on the fence about maybe, you know, reading it or, or I, it's my understanding that the, the movie didn't really live up to it. So if you saw the movie and thought you kind of got everything, yeah, maybe consider going for the book if you've got the time. Like I said, it was a long read and I went to the cottage this weekend. Again, kind of like I was saying to you about going to Sri Lanka, just we needed to get out of this house. It was cold and there were foxes running around and deer everywhere. It was nice. We had a good time. And while I was there, I realized I had left my Kindle at home. So I ended up reading the last like 10% of the book on my phone. which is not ideal, but I really wanted to get through it and I absolutely loved it. It was great. So now I'm trying to decide what I... It's that thing where when you have a work trip coming up, especially something as intense as Watches and Wonders, I'm trying to decide if I start another book that I can enjoy on the flights or if I don't start another book so that I'll be inclined to work on all my flights. I'm not quite sure yet. I've learned a long time ago to not put whole seasons of television shows and stuff like that on my computer. because then that's all I end up doing. Yeah. Especially, especially when it's like you're flying home and you still have a ton of work to do, but you're dead tired. Um, and you're like, well, I'm, I'm too tired to write coherently, which of course is a, a falsity, an excuse. So I'll just, you know, watch 30 rock again. So I'm not going to do any of that. Um, but I might, I might bring, um, the bomber mafia, which is the new Malcolm Gladwell. Yeah. Right. So I may bring that with me or I may save that until life is a little bit less busy than Watches and Wonders season. I haven't quite decided. |
| Jason Heaton | I listened to that, uh, an audio book version of it where Gladwell actually reads and, and it was done in this interesting way. It was done almost like a, like a full oral experience, like almost like a podcast or a radio presentation. It had like sound effects and, uh, the kind of thing it was, it was very different from like, I just thought it was kind of headed right into kind of a standard audio book. And I think it's a pretty quick, It wasn't very long. I think it was a pretty quick read. Yeah. The book's not giant. |
| James | Yeah. So that's there as well. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. I think you'll like it. I think it's, you know, Gladwell's great. And then that part of history is very interesting too. |
| James | Yeah. No, I've, I've enjoyed his other books. I was like a huge fan of his back, you know, back when he first started cranking out bestsellers. Yeah. Yeah. Really loved Blink like everybody did. I think the whole world read that book. Yeah. Yeah. This is a later one. It seems like a different sort of focus for him, but I, you know, I think the podcast is also excellent revisionist history. Uh, I, I do really enjoy those quite a bit. Um, so yeah, we'll, we'll, we'll see if I get to that, you know, the other, the other fallback I always have, and this will stay on my hard drive and will forever is, you know, alone in the wilderness. I'll get into some Dick Prank where I'm leaving, leaving Geneva. That always kind of puts my head back where it should be. |
| Jason Heaton | Oh, that's, that, that's like the perfect kind of antidote to like Blaney watch like Geneva kind of thing. I mean, it's about as polar opposite as you can get. Yeah. $85 breakfast. Yeah. |
| James | Uh, yeah. I mean, other, other than that, what else have I got going on? So, like I said, we went to the cottage and then coming back from the cottage, we got home and there's a distinct, uh, smell of brakes coming from the Jeep of, of a very hot break. And I came around the side at the passenger front passenger and there's smoke coming off the brake. Wow. And I thought, well, this is less than ideal, but I didn't have anywhere to drive at the moment. I looked over a bunch of stuff online and basically all of them said like, we'll pull the wheel and start poking around. Yeah. And I thought like, Not the busiest week of the year, I'm sorry. Normally, sure, I dig out a jack or I've always been looking for an excuse to buy a new jack and this would have been a fine option in a month to pull the wheel and take a look. But instead, I just took it to the guys because I wasn't sure if the brake had seized. It wasn't directly pulling in either direction. And it turns out that the problem was a little bit more nefarious than a simple brake lockup where you destroy the pads and maybe you just have to do a brake job and you move on. It was actually a length of tube had a brake line, um, you know, worth $75 or something like that at an OEM level had swollen and was carrying far too much pressure to the caliper. So it was, it was closing the brake, but apparently, or at least according to the guys, cause they said, I don't understand how you could drive this. It's, it feels like you're driving with your handbrake half on. And I said, well, how long, like it wasn't, there was no night and day change to the way the Jeep was driving. It wasn't driving as well when I brought it in, but that was part of why I brought it in. And they said, well, it could have taken a long time to get like this. Uh, they're like, it might feel weird to try to drive it now that it's fixed. And sure enough, it was like, I took a trailer off the back of the Jeep, entirely new brake pedal feel way lighter driving experience, way better brakes, you know, less movement in the wheel under heavy braking. Like it's still a Jeep. So like none of these things that I'm describing are good compared to a modern vehicle, but it's so much better than it was. I had them do both sides in case it happened to the driver's side, but it was like probably a hundred dollar fix. And if I had more time and was comfortable, you know, bleeding the brain that you can do that on a Saturday afternoon when you don't have, you know, endless number of watches and wonder stories. Sure. You know, invite a friend over, do a break, a break, bleed and replace the cable and that kind of thing. But, or the hose. That was kind of the closest thing to drama in my week. It only took them a couple hours. They took it over the yesterday and I picked it up yesterday afternoon. Especially with the big driving season back and forth to the cottage, which is the only real highway driving we do where I even use brakes extensively because it's a stick. I can downshift and do most of it through engine braking. Luckily, the brakes looked okay. They did a check on those as well. Tightened up a few bolts underneath, so it sounds a little bit less like a bucket of bolts, but yeah, it's up over 200,000 kilometers now, so just enjoying it and trying to keep it running as well as possible. |
| Jason Heaton | Sounds good. Good fresh break job, and you cleaned it too, so you're all set. |
| James | Yeah, it's nice and clean. Yeah. True enough. Anything else new on your front, or should we jump into some wrist check watch talk? |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah, let's do that, and then I'm excited for our main topic, so let's do that. What are you wearing? I mean, you've got all the good news today. I mean, you've even got a new watch. You hinted at this last time. |
| James | So I teased this on a previous episode that I was enjoying and still am enjoying my Seiko Monster, but curiosity got the best of me and I ordered another Seiko, another inexpensive Seiko. And I asked for some guesses as to what people thought it was, and I got a couple options. None of them hit. It is a weird watch. And so far, I really like it. It's called the Seiko Dolce SACM 150, and I bought it from Seiya. Japan where I like to buy watches that like I can't buy, you know, from the Houdinki shop, right? Yeah. So they have a different, they have a JDM collection and this may be a JDM watch or not. I'm not really sure. It appears on various Seiko websites, but it's not the kind of watch that I would normally be buying or covering or the rest of it. But I saw it and I was immediately interested. So this is a 33.5 millimeter gold plated quartz watch, no date. It uses an eight series high accuracy quartz. So just, I guess that's one level down or the very entry level of a Grand Seiko quartz movement, essentially. It's good to 10 seconds a year. So it's easily my most accurate watch. I'm lucky to get 10 seconds a day on some of my watches. It's about five and a half millimeters thin. It's got drilled lugs. Offhand, I don't remember what the lug to lug is, but it's not much. It's a little tiny, very thin watch with gold dial furniture, gold hands, If you know the classic Grand Seiko, their original watch, which is commonly called the 3180 for its movement. It's in the same aesthetic as a 3180, but those are like 37, 38 millimeters. They're perfect watches, by the way. One of my all-time favorite dress watches. Beautiful, but expensive, right? And I've always been kind of on board with like, could I find a similar experience, but just cheaper at Seiko, right? Like find me something less expensive, less special. especially when it comes to a dress watch where I'm not, I'll baby it. That's fine. I'm not going to wear it that often. I like the idea that this one's quartz, you know, versus a hand wound that I forget to wind. And then you look down during dinner or whatever. It's two hours later, three hours later, whatever it is. I'm not great at winding hand wound watches is what I've learned. So I picked this one up. It was like 380 bucks us, I think after taxes and everything to come into Canada was less than $500 Canadian. And so far I just absolutely love it. It's a weird, small little watch, but it's really beautiful. And I think it works like a tank would on my wrist. It's small, but like purposefully small rather than incidentally small. It came on like a patent black leather, fake black leather strap, which I immediately took off. I don't like black straps and I especially don't like shiny black straps. So I put it on a brown lizard strap that I believe came on my Minstop. Oh yeah. It's my Buren men's top way back when I first got it. I think that's what this came on. And that works. It's a 17 millimeter lug. So I have a handful of straps that should arrive from the Houdinki shop in the next little while. And then I should be very happy with it. I just want to dress it down. I want a simple leather strap that isn't shiny and kind of just in a neutral tone, a taupe, a gray, something like that. Maybe one of those taupes that has a little bit of mossy green in it. Yeah. I think would be really good. Uh, so once that arrives and I see how it suits the watch, I think this is probably going to be the watch that I take to watches and wonders. I think it kind of suits the vibe. It's a little fancy. It's pretty subtle. It's also an easy watch where if you're trying on watches for wrist shots all day, you end up wearing the watch on my, I'll wear the watch on my right wrist. Uh, so that I'm not constantly taking my watch off and putting it down on the table at the meeting and then losing it, forgetting it, having it get scooped up by some, member of the brand that we're meeting with that isn't paying close enough attention. Like all that stuff can happen. So I typically wear my watch on my right wrist when I'm at a trade show. And this works cause it's such a small watch. I won't even notice it's there. Yeah. But if you're, if you're in the market for a really gorgeous, uh, easily like any, like this, this would work for any, any, any gender, any, any sort of, um, assignment from that side, uh, any sort of taste into like, as long as you don't mind it being small, which is kind of its only thing, like, Would this watch, in my opinion, be amazing at say 37 millimeters? Absolutely. It has an incredible like kind of stone effect dial, similar to what they did with those, the US trio of limited edition Grand Seigos. I did check, it's not the same process, which uses actual mica so that it looks like a certain type of Japanese painting. Yeah. This is a less fancy version of that, but the effect in my mind looks very similar. It's, it's this goldy flaky sort of creamy gold, texture that I really like. I'm really impressed by it and enjoy it. And it's so nice to have just a change of pace from even something like the monster, like the difference of the monster is hilarious, but yeah. So I think this will make a good kind of watch show watch. I'm certainly not going to be late or worried about winding watches or that sort of thing. Yeah. Nice and easy. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. I remember years ago going to SIHH and always having this big debate about, you know, which watch to wear and what will fit best with, what I'm looking at and kind of be kind of a neutral, neutral bit of wrist wear when you're visiting all these, these other brands. And, um, and then I just remember doing that and then like getting there and like, nobody notices, nobody cares unless like you're with a bunch of other editors and they, everybody's kind of comparing notes and checking out each other's risks, but that watch will really fly under the radar. But I think if somebody does notice it, and especially if somebody knows what it is, that's going to be like pretty crazy. That's a, that's a strong move for, for watches and wonders. |
| James | Yeah. I'm looking for, I might do that plus a GMT. Like the nice thing is, is by the time I get there, DST will have settled for the areas I'm leaving and coming from. So it's six hours, which is like fairly simple. I'm only changing the time zone once. So like, I don't need a GMT to, because I'm going to get lost in this. Right. So I'm not really sure. I might still, maybe the Braymont as well. That's a nice kind of two watch pairing. Yeah. But I, you know, it's easier, the fewer you bring as we've learned, and we've, we've said this before to people, both for press trips and otherwise, the fewer bring is the less you have to worry about. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. |
| James | And at a certain point, it's sometimes it's nice to just not have anything on your mind as far as your own watches. Yeah. So true. |
| Jason Heaton | So true. So what have you got this week? Yeah. I mean, I'm in, I'm in the same boat, you know, I mean, leaving in a little over a week here and I've been like thinking what, you know, which, I mean, it's silly to spend this much time thinking about it, but I've been like, what, what watch should I wear to Sri Lanka? I'm there for a month, you know, should I do one? Do I do one and take a second, which I think I'm leaning towards. And so, Today I'm wearing one of the strong candidates for taking along. I've got a CWC Royal Navy. This is the automatic version. So then it's from 2004. So an old one, quite as old as my old quartz one. But back in 04, they were still making them with tritium dial. So it's got the circle T. It still glows really nicely. And yeah, it's got an ETA, I guess it's a 2824 movement in it and it's keeping pretty decent time. It's, it's kind of their classic formula. I mean, you know, there's no secret. I love, I love CWC stuff and I did take a quartz one the last time we were in Sri Lanka. That's when I dove the Hermes and actually wore that watch on that. So that one's another, another strong candidate. But you know, every time I put on these CWCs, I'm just like, I don't know, there's just They're so easy to wear and they're just so handsome. They're just such cool looking watches. You catch a glimpse of your wrist in a, in a mirror or something. And it's like, yeah, it's such a good looking watch. Right. So yeah, that's what I'm wearing. And then I got in, uh, Garmin sent me their latest and greatest dive computer. Uh, this is the Descent G1 Solar. Oh, yeah, it's really cool. You know, I've got the Descent Mark 1 and Mark 2 and Gashani's kind of inherited my Mark 1 now. And, uh, the Mark 2 has been great. Um, but I always, I always thought to myself, you know, what would really make a descent kind of an all everything watch would be you've got the dive capabilities and then everything else you get with a Garmin. Um, but boy, if you had it solar, uh, solar charged, like it'd be ideal. Like you don't, you're never going to run out of battery. You can just, if you're just wearing it nonstop, which I don't do. This one is, it's interesting because as opposed to the Mark one and Mark two descent, this one is, it's smaller. So it's the size, I don't know offhand, but it's the size of like an instinct. So it's right. It's got the kind of instinct style case, but, but not that integrated strap because they're using their quick release strap system. So you can put a really long, it came with a separate really long dive strap as well. Oh, right. Sure. Sure. So I'm going to pack this along for sure. So whether or not this is my number two watch for Sri Lanka or whatever, but I do, if I do plan to, Do a couple of dives while we're there. Um, I can test that out and then I'll be doing some lap swimming and that sort of thing. So it'll, it'll be nice to have, uh, have a garment along. So yeah, I haven't really had much of a chance to try it out. I took it, uh, I took it biking yesterday and I've been kind of wearing it around and charged it up and updated the firmware and all that stuff. So it's ready to go, but yeah, that's, uh, that's pretty exciting stuff. And that's, uh, I'll be taking that one along for sure. |
| James | Fantastic. Yeah, that's great. I think that's a good pick and kind of well-suited and definitely sounds like you've thought about it plenty, right? Yeah, right. All right. Well, there's watches for some upcoming travel. You want to get into the main topic? We've got a great one. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah, I'm really excited for today's topic. A few episodes ago, for a final note, I recommended Wristwatch Revival on YouTube, which has a really decent following on YouTube. And it's this guy, Marshall Sutcliffe, who's a watchmaker who takes old fairly beat up watches that he gets from people and just buys from eBay, typically non-running versions. And then he restores them and he films it all. He edits it together. He's got a great presentation style. He's super talented and the watches look tremendous. And when I put that up in final notes, we got some feedback from listeners who also really like what Marshall's doing and suggested that he might be a good TGN guest and I got in touch with Marshall and turns out he's a TGN listener and he heard that episode and he was appreciative of our little bump to his YouTube page and I asked him if he'd like to be on the show and he said yeah. So we're really excited to have Marshall Sutcliffe from Wristwatch Revival on TGN and maybe get a little insight into where he got his start and what it's like to restore old wristwatches. So without further ado here's Marshall Sutcliffe. All right. Well, Marshall Sutcliffe, thanks so much for joining us on a TGN. We understand you're a listener. We are viewers of your YouTube channel and we're, we're just thrilled to have you on the show. |
| Marshall Sutcliffe | No, I really appreciate it guys. And yeah, I've been listening to the, to the show for, for years now, like actually years. |
| James | I'm a long time listener. I forget that we've been doing it for years. |
| Marshall Sutcliffe | Yeah. Yeah. It still feels like one of my newer podcasts in my rotation for me, but it's not, I, I've been listening to you guys for a long time. |
| Jason Heaton | Oh, that's great to hear you. Well, we were, I mean, admittedly we are not, uh, We're not as long lasting with a wristwatch revival. Um, I just kind of stumbled upon your YouTube channel, gosh, a couple of months ago. And then, then we had it in a final notes and I've been kind of hooked. It's, it's one of my subscriptions that I keep coming back to, you know, James and I were talking about the fact that a lot of stuff in our feeds, uh, is related to, you know, cars, Land Rovers, uh, diving adventure and that kind of thing. And then yours has been added to the list and it's been so much fun to watch, but I don't have the. the full history of what you're all about. So it's, I deliberately tried not to read too much into your about section on YouTube. Maybe a good place to start is for you to give a little bit of your, your background. Like are you a watchmaker by training? Is that what you do? And how did this all come about? |
| Marshall Sutcliffe | God, no, no. I basically, what happened was I got, I got into collecting watches or I actually don't really consider myself a collector even though I own probably like 50 watches now because I, I hate selling them. Like I hate the process of selling them, but, but I'm actually a lot more along the lines of how I feel you guys are. We're like, I want to wear, you know, the watches that I have. And, and I, I really don't have that gene in me to collect, but at any rate, I got into watches and I was attracted to vintage watches straight away. Uh, particularly Hoyer, uh, vintage Hoyer. My, my family's really into cars and racing and stuff kind of generationally. And so that really spoke to me. So I started trying to, uh, poke around at the edges and pick up some of those types of pieces. And I grew up, um, I think similar to you guys, uh, working on cars. And at some point I moved into an apartment. Unfortunately, my dad passed away about seven years ago and he was the one I worked on cars with, uh, the most. So I haven't really had a wrench in my hand outside of an occasional oil change or whatever in quite a while. And my career, which is also important for this, I had a normal job. I worked at AT&T on their website and then I quit it to do content. And the content that I quit it to do was in the gaming space. It's around the game magic, the gathering. If you remember the card game. Oh sure. Yeah. And so that's what I've been doing for the past 10 years. I started a podcast for that game and then I ended up doing live video, uh, tournament coverage. So I'm like the play by play commentator for, for that game. And I ended up doing video and articles and, you know, kind of doing content creation stuff. Um, as much as I'm loath to call it that. Um, but when I found watches, I was like, these are great. I wear them. I really enjoy them. History, all the stuff that everybody likes about them. And then about six, seven years in, I was like, I do so much stuff on the computer. right? Like I'm editing videos, I'm editing podcasts, I'm recording stuff. I'm in Photoshop. It's like, it's all this like computer based stuff. But when I was younger, I used to like get my hands on stuff I used to work on. So I used to make stuff and I really kind of missed the hands on nature of it. And so I thought, you know, it'd be really cool is if I could buy a broken or old vintage watch, like off of eBay for cheaper and then restore it myself. And you know, having all the history with cars and stuff. I was like, why not me? I can do this. And I found a guy on YouTube named Mark Lovick who has a watch repair channel. It's called, okay. This guy became my, my, my hero. Uh, he's just, he's some guy from England. He's a, he's a, you know, career watchmaker. And I watched every single video of his, he's got classes. I took all of his classes and I just sort of dove in head first and I think in my mind it was my way of restoring cars again, but I could do it at my computer desk. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. And how long ago was that? |
| Marshall Sutcliffe | When did you start doing this? That was about, um, four years ago now. Oh my gosh. |
| Jason Heaton | I thought, you know, I was thinking at least a decade. Wow. |
| Marshall Sutcliffe | Yeah, no, I'm a total, I have no idea. Like I picked it up relatively quickly because of the car stuff. Like a lot of it translates over the feel of torque on the screw, how to get to stuff, how to, this is one of my biggest challenges, how to not take shortcuts. You're like, I can see that bolt and yes, the Aaron takes in the way, but I can see it. And I'm going to get to that rather than take the five minutes and just take stupid intake off. That's a, that's a big watchmaking thing too. But I at least have the knowledge to know, to take the takeoff, even if sometimes I don't do it. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. Right. Where is the air intake on a watch? |
| Marshall Sutcliffe | Well, it depends on if you get the upgraded high flow version or not. |
| Jason Heaton | So, I mean, and you've obviously accumulated all of this watchmaking gear. I mean, you watch your channel, you've got, you know, a crystal press and you've got all, you know, the timing machines and all that sort of thing. So you, you ramped up really quickly. I mean, is there, is there anything you don't have that you, you still wish you could get? |
| Marshall Sutcliffe | God, yes, there's always more to get. But that being said, there's a couple of, in my mind, there's a couple of big level up moments as you acquire gear. The first real test is mainspring winders, which is kind of an obscure tool that is really only specific to watchmaking. And it, you know, it means you're more serious about taking the step up for two reasons. One, you only need them if you're going to be doing like quite a bit of movements. And two, they're really expensive and, and a pure specialist tool. So I remember when I ordered my main main spring winder set, it was about $800. And I was just like, am I doing this? Like, and then the next, which is much further down the line past the crystal presses and all that kind of stuff is a lathe is a watchmakers lathe. And, uh, as of January, I am now the proud owner of a watchmaker's lathe. I do not know how to use it. I've been practicing, but uh, yeah. So the, the accumulation, I mean, I don't know, I'm sure you guys are similar. It's like, this is part of the fun, right? Like when I get a new tool, I'm stoked on it. I'm like, Oh, I get to, you know, fix more watches than I normally could have. And of course try out the new tool. |
| Jason Heaton | Well, and, and the watches that you have, that you've shown on your channel that you're restoring. I've always been curious, like, are these ones you personally keep or do you kind of turn this into a little bit of a business where you're buying, fixing up, reselling on eBay? Or are these all part of your personal collection after you fix them up? |
| Marshall Sutcliffe | Well, currently, so the only ones that I don't still have, I've given away. I've given to friends or family members, but the theoretical model is to sell them so that I can buy more of them. But as I mentioned before, I just hate the sales process. I hate the going back and forth. I hate trying to figure out a price for something that, you know, I don't know. I get a lot of messages, right? Hey, why are you selling that? Do you want to sell that? Is that for sale? And it's like, yeah, it kind of is, but I'm not really sure the Avenue that makes sense. So I've considered eBay. Then there's the fees and the hassle I've considered. Um, doing like my own website, but then it's like, Oh God, you know, I have to start a website again. I've done this before. It's, it's a major lift. And at the end of the day, my focal point is very, very, very much on the content. I'm a, I'm a really content first person when it comes to how I approach this stuff. And any time that I spend mental cycles on trying to figure out how to sell some watch, I'm just like, I should just be editing a video. And so that's what I do. started this, the channel from scratch a couple of years ago. And you know, I, for me it was a big step because this is the first thing that I've done outside of my other space where I'm a known quantity there, right? Like I have a lot of followers and magic. I, you know, I, I've done that for a long time. I have a podcast, like I'm a known thing. So if I put something new out over there, you know, I already kind of have like a jumpstart and this was like, you know, from ground zero, no followers, no, nothing, no subs, no videos, nothing. And so I wanted to take the mental approach that I had to my content in that space and try to apply it to something else, you know? |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. Where, I mean, so most of these watches you're, you're, you're finding on eBay and do you specifically look for non-running because presumably then they're quite cheap, right? |
| Marshall Sutcliffe | Yeah. I, I have multiple eBay searches set for name and brand and then non-running. or for repair is also a commonly used one. Right. Yeah. And it is interesting. They are cheaper. They are still not cheap. Um, they're not throwaway. Like there's plenty of people with enough of a skillset or at least a, they believe that they have the skillset to, to put something back together that they will still bid it up. So you don't end up getting insane deals, but they're definitely cheaper, you know, than, than you would normally get. And if you get lucky, and it's something that you can fix without a huge investment, then yeah, you got a pretty cool watch for a reasonable price. |
| James | I have to imagine with what I understand about making a video for the internet, it's fairly labor intensive, not only to be doing something that requires all your attention, like fixing a watch, but also be managing the camera. You're probably doing some pre-editing in your mind, the audio, the rest of it. How long did it take you before you felt comfortable sitting down, turning on the cameras and just getting to work? |
| Marshall Sutcliffe | Probably six months. That's not bad. Yeah. I, I worked the problem really hard. Like I was really looking at, um, all those angles. And it's funny cause hearing that question from, from you guys is like, you can tell you've done it, you know, like most people just don't even consider that aspect of it. I'm a big believer in putting a lot of time up front to get it right. And then kind of set it in forget it mode, if you will. Right. I have my process. Sure. you know, like right now in front of me, I have a, a post-it note that has the rundown of things that I need for each camera. And like all, it just says F eight, it has an asterisk. It says M F it says 4,500 K it says record. And it says Mike. And I do that for every single one where I'm like the white balance is all the same, you know, everything's lined up so that I don't have to, so I can offload that part and focus on, on the main part. But that process was a lot of trial and error. but I'll tell you, I did most of it before putting up my first video. Like I have a video that I recorded that I never put up that I never ended up putting up because it was like not quite up to standard for me. But I wanted to hit the ground running. Like I had a vision for this thing. If like if you go back and watch my very, very first video, I actually say welcome back to another video. Like I'm just like, look, I don't want it to be the thing where I'm like, Hi everybody. Um, this is, uh, my first, my first one, there might be some weird sound if it's, I'm just like, no dude, I want to hit the ground. I want to go, you know? Sure. So after finally kind of working it out, I then tackled another watch and that became the first video. |
| James | That's great. And at a basic level, and I'm sure I'll ask more, more specific questions, but what is the, what is the technological setup required to capture one of your videos? |
| Marshall Sutcliffe | Yeah. So, um, I'm at my desk. So it's just my computer desk, which I've kind of converted into two modes. I have a, I guess I would call it a streaming mode for my other work. Cause I do on air work. But then the, the one that I have here is I have a, like a visa mount, you know, the thing you can, and I have a, yeah, I put a monitor on and I have a bar that comes out that has the overhead camera. That's a Sony, that's a Sony a seven four. Now I just got, it was an a seven three the whole time. Yeah. And then I have now, I've did some recent upgrades, but it's pretty similar. I have two A6400s. So that's also Sony. And one of those is my wide shot. It shows the work area. And then the other one is the most recent edition and it's a hundred millimeter macro that I can get really close with. And so it's a three camera setup to be able to give me a lot of room for the edit and also really kind of show what's going on. And then I have a microphone Actually, it's the microphone I'm talking into right now. And I, and I pointed down at, at my workspace to capture a small, small sounds, even if they are, it gives a sense of ambience to the, to the thing. And so, yeah, so that's it. It's a three camera set up with a mic and, uh, probably the most important part underrated are of course the lights. And I actually have two one foot by two foot led panels. They're the kind of soft ones. If you've ever seen them, you can actually roll them up and they sit just on an aluminum frame. And I have them pointed straight down and I turn them both on full blast. So I get a ton of light, which is helpful for working on watches, but of course also helpful for filming them. |
| James | Yeah. And, and you'd, you'd mentioned on your post-it note or whatever, the F8. So you, you need a lot of light, um, to, to, to shoot at that aperture. Uh, it, and it's, so I'm assuming then are any of the cameras, essentially you turn them on and let them run for the whole thing, or you're setting up a shot, turning it on recordings, you know, capturing what you need with the audio and then thinking about the next shot. |
| Marshall Sutcliffe | I said, I let them all run the whole time now. Wow. Okay. So I have a huge file, but it makes sinking them easier and post. Cause I can just have one massive file and then yes, it is a little more cumbersome because there'll be big chunks where I'm setting up a shot and I'm not actually doing anything that I need to cut out. But I mean, I'm so used to that now, you know, I just blast through those. I can, I can, remember what past me was thinking pretty well. Even if I haven't visited the video in a month, I'm like, Oh, I know what I'm doing here. |
| Jason Heaton | You know? And how long does it take you to, to kind of produce a typical watch restoration video? For instance, that, that Seamaster 120 kind of cool little dive watch you did recently. How long did that take start to finish? |
| Marshall Sutcliffe | So like from arrival of the watch, you know, like putting it on the bench and turning on a camera till when the video was finished was probably about two and a half months or so. Okay. Cause it's the, there's two bottlenecks. I'd say one of them is parts. Getting parts is just extremely difficult. As you guys probably know, most of the big companies don't sell their parts to independent watch repairs anymore. They've kind of locked it into people who are certified under them or literally work under them. Right. And much to the chagrin of the watchmaker community, cause it's just really hard to find parts now. And so, It's a lot of eBay searches and waiting. And then the other thing is editing. It's just a huge lift to edit because it'll probably be usually about three or four separate shoots for one video, like disassembly, and then maybe put it in the watch cleaning machine. And then some other thing, most videos have some other thing where I like restore the case or have to do some work on the movement I wouldn't normally have to do. And then reassembly, And then some type of after shots, like I'm holding it in my hand or I take it outside and put it on a rock and film it or whatever. So there's, you know, each of those has to happen in order as well. |
| Jason Heaton | Wow. I mean, you have this, these two big lifts. I mean, you've got, you've got the video production and editing and then you have the watchmaking side of things, um, different skill sets, but equal elements of, of, you know, paying attention to a lot of detail. Is there one side of it that you prefer? I think personally, uh, any sort of video or audio editing I think would drive me crazy. I just don't have the patience for it. But you're obviously very patient from doing the other side of things on the watchmaking side. But do you, do you ever like get done assembling a watch and then think, Oh, I really don't want to spend another couple of weeks editing video. |
| Marshall Sutcliffe | Definitely. Uh, the editing is definitely the hard part, but I've done a decent amount of it in my life. So I'm pretty used to it. Also, I really set out when I started the channel, you know, I really did a lot of like, what do I want this to be? Because, of course, you know, if you're going to start a YouTube channel making 50 minute full form watch restoration videos, isn't what most content creators would recommend you do. Uh, you know, they would say do a 10 minute video or whatever the algorithm likes on YouTube, but I don't play that game. I don't like, I don't do any of that stuff. I don't, when I go on my videos, I don't say like, you know, smash that like button. I don't, I've never actually asked, anybody to subscribe to the channel. Like I, I find that regular viewers just tire of that stuff and it's so ubiquitous that, you know, nobody really likes it. So took that out before I even started. I said, I'm not doing that. And then I said, okay, well what do I want these videos to be? Like what really, what do I want these things to be? And I'm like, I want to tell the story of getting a watch, repairing it and then showing the after. So there's that narrative that you see on kind of all restoration style videos but I want to talk about it. Like I don't want to do this ASMR thing where like you don't ever say a word and you know, there's all these sounds and everything. I'm like, no, I want to, I want to open up this world to people. |
| James | Yeah. I know, I know. I watch a couple of there, you know, there's a couple of these, they do like reels or stories of, of, you know, starting with this watch, that's all cruddy. And then it kind of jumps around and gets to the end. And there's very little explanation of what's going on or why. And I always find like, those are fun to watch, but I, they always leave me wanting somebody saying like the reason we're doing this, is so that we can get to this part of the movement, which we know to be the problem because this is happening when I turn the crown or whatever. Right. And, and like, I don't want to watch somebody repair a car in time-lapse. Like, like if there's a specific piece of the car, I want to know like why and how difficult it was to get to it and what the part cost and all these other little bits of context. So I, I definitely appreciate that about the channel. You can look at it now and it's so, it's so uncommon to look at, uh, you know, to go to the videos view of someone's channel and just see mostly 40 plus minute videos. |
| Marshall Sutcliffe | Yes. Just, I, I told, told myself it's okay if this doesn't work. Like I, this is what I want to make, you know? And, and like, I don't really care. Like if, if it means that I'm going to limit my audience or something. And as it turns out, it hasn't, it's worked and people really like it. And I'm like thrilled about it. You know, just that the format was able to translate so that people are like, you know what, I am going to sit down and watch this thing. But like I said before, I kind of view this stuff as, my podcast is like this. The broadcast we do are often like this. I call it second monitor content. It's stuff that you can have off to the side, right? It's, it's not that you have to sit down, grab some popcorn and stare at your screen for 40 minutes. You can listen to me talk. And when I get excited, you can look over and you can go, what's going on, right? Otherwise I'm just there hanging out with you. This is a, you know, this is a safe space, right? We're in the trust tree. Like there's no, right. There's no issues here with, you know, you're not going to feel any drama or anything. It's, it's going to be a kind of a chill place to hang out and be in my little world for, for 45 minutes. And then, and then you're going to be back on your way. You know, that's kind of the vision. |
| James | I like doing it in a picture in picture while I'm editing images. Yeah. Cause then I can glance down and click on it if I see it getting to something really interesting, but otherwise it is, it's the story in this procedure. I think I just like procedure in a lot of things. |
| Marshall Sutcliffe | You know, a lot of people do. And that's been a struggle for me is I have to decide cause sometimes like, let's say for example, I need to replay the case, right? It's, I need to strip off all the old nickel or gold that's on it, replayed it from scratch. That's cool. Right? It's like, I got like a science experiment going on my kitchen table and I want to show that. But now the video is going to be an hour 10 and that's too much. I, I respect people's time, right? Like I'm trying to keep these, you know, as tight as I can. They just end up being 45 minutes or 50 minutes. So then the temptation is to kind of skip over some of the stuff I do every time. But anytime I've even dared take out a step, I'll get comments immediately. Hey, you forgot to put in the gasket or, you know, there's like kind of a completionist aspect to it where you're like, I want to see, every aspect of this thing come apart and I want to see it all come back together. So that's been a bit of a hurdle for me is how to fit in the, the other stuff while still maintaining that whole process. |
| Jason Heaton | Let's jump into the meat of, of kind of the watches that you work on. I mean, are there, are there any kinds of watches or brands that you won't work on that, that have stumped you or you just won't touch? And, uh, and do you have any favorite types of watches or brands that you find easier than, than others to work on? |
| Marshall Sutcliffe | Yeah. You know, I'm still very much on my learning journey with this. Like I just like, for example, one of my favorite types of watches, I mentioned, um, that I got into Hoyer or vintage Hoyer earlier. So I'm a big fan of chronographs. I really like, you know, those sort of racing inspired chronographs from back in the day. I don't know how to work on a chronograph yet. I, there's a class that I'm going to take and, uh, I could just dive in and probably sort it out or just reference one of my videos and go back and do it. but I want to like do it right. You know, I want to like actually know what I'm doing before I start doing it. But I've got like three or four chronographs I've found on eBay over the years that are in various States of disrepair that are, I'm ready to go. But I don't know how to do that yet. And then anything above that, I don't know either. Like, you know, something crazy, like a minute repeater or something like that. Yeah. So I'm actually fairly limited in what I can work on. Like chronographs is a big step up, but like, you know, I'm getting there where I should be able to do that. And I can't, Um, I haven't found one that I gave up on yet. I'm, I'm pretty stubborn about like, I'm going to sort this out. Like when it gets to troubleshooting, if my computer breaks, like I'm fixing that thing, you know, I will, I will spend as much time on Google as I need to, to sort it out. And that's kind of how I am with these. Um, I do have a few that I've hit roadblocks on that I can't fix. A good example would be a friend of mine got me like a really old stopwatch. And, uh, I took it apart and realized that the balance staff was broken. This is really common for older watches before they had spring protection, you know, shock protected Inca block is what it's often called that if it got dropped, it would break, right? It's a very tiny pivot and it's held onto the balance wheel, which is literally meant to be a lot of weight pushed out to the edges. So as you can imagine, when that hits the ground, that weight wants to move and it's on the edges and it'll snap the pivot. And I can't find a replacement balance staff for it. Cause it's kind of an obscure movement. Now, theoretically, I'll be able to make a new one on my lathe at some point, but that's down the line for me. So for now, it's sitting in one of my parts trays, and it's going to be there until I learn how to make a new balance staff, for example. So those are the times when I get stuck as if I just don't have the equipment or the expertise to do it. Otherwise, I wouldn't say I'm super ambitious. Like I'm not on there. I'm not like, Oh, this is by some old tourbillon or Chinese one or whatever. And just go for it. I'm, I'm a little more step-by-step with it. Like I got my eyes on chronographs next, that that's my next thing. |
| Jason Heaton | That'd be great. And you've done some, some really cool, I mean, I I've seen you do like Ben Ruess military stuff or an old Hamilton or Bulova. And then you've, you've done some really beautiful like Omega, you know, 60s Seamasters and, and they just seem like solid, you know, solid movement watches that, that, you know, to watch you disassemble. I'm, I'm encouraged. I think to myself, maybe I could even try something like this, you know? |
| Marshall Sutcliffe | Yeah. It's with your automotive expertise. I bet you, you would translate over very well. Um, it's, it's, it really does help to just have a mechanical mind and kind of understand the pitfalls that you might fall into, uh, with a, you know, you're tightening something down. It doesn't feel right. Right. It's not there's something this is the wrong something. It's just I know it technically can fit in here, but it's not right. And you just learn to listen to that voice. That type of stuff really comes off. And by the way, talking about those omegas, man, those things are so sweet that I bought that first Seamaster and I took it apart. Wow. The movement's a gorgeous. It's just beautiful. I compared to the others of the era. But man, you know, when you find a car that's really well made And it just, you can tell that they put a lot of thought into the repair and work on it where, Oh, they put this here. So my hand doesn't, you know, those little things, those Omega movements, they're fantastic. They just come right apart. They go right back together. I keep going back to them for that reason. Cause they're just a joy to work on. They are chef's kiss when it comes to those old movements, really some of the best stuff. |
| Jason Heaton | A few years back, I flew out to Pennsylvania and I took a pocket watch, um, repair course at the right across the street from the national watch and clock collectors museum or whatever it's called. And, um, so for the class I had to buy the watchmaking kit. I think it was the time zone watchmakers kit, you know, all the tools and then like a generic at a hand one pocket watch that, that we were going to use to disassemble. And I learned so much in that class and I still have that whole kit here, but I haven't picked it up in many years. And, I'm just curious now, you know, this is several years later with all the resources available on YouTube, even, even watching your stuff or, or some specific coursework, you know, I just wonder, do you have any tips for maybe amateur watchmakers that are listening here that, that might want to kind of dip a toe in this, like where, where should people begin? |
| Marshall Sutcliffe | Yeah. So where I began was the watch repair channel on YouTube, which has, which has a lot of resources, but it's a little all over the place. But the guy who does it again, his name's Mark Lovick. He started a website called watchfix.com where he has his courses and I took them. I definitely recommend them and I'm not, you know, endorsed by him or anything like that. I just really, really appreciate the effort he put into those courses and those are what led to my foundation for this stuff. So, and they're reasonably priced too. So I, and he has three courses and apparently working on a fourth and even a fifth is, is the word though. It's been a while. So that's a great resource if you want to kind of really try it out. And then your, the approach that they took for, for what you did in Pennsylvania, there is definitely the right way to go. Uh, the size of the movement really matters a lot when you're learning and you want to go for a bigger one. So the two you really do, the two best options are, uh, a pocket watch movement off of eBay. I'm sure you guys know, but your listeners may not, you know, that, A pocket watches were ubiquitous, you know, from the mid 1800s to the early 1900s, just every man basically had to have one and many women as well. And so there was literally millions of them produced in, including in the United States too, which is kind of cool for, for us listeners who are, you know, don't remember when stuff was actually made here as well. Uh, there was major, major production of these pocket watches. And then what happened is they went out of favor, of course for wristwatches around the twenties or thirties. And then people started finding grandma, grandpa's, you know, my dad's old pocket watch and they take it to a jeweler or a pawn shop. And what would happen is they'd say, look, the watch itself isn't worth anything, but the case has some gold in it or some silver in it. And we can melt that down. So we'll give you 50 bucks for the case. And then they would just be like, well, I don't need the movement. And they would just literally throw these things in like crates. I mean, there's just millions of them around and now you can find them on eBay for you know, a hundred bucks or less. It's incredible. And there are these beautifully made, really fantastic movements from that era. And you know, you can pick one up for 50, 75 bucks. And if you screw it up, whatever, right, there's another one there. You weren't ever really going to do anything with it anyway. And so that's option a, I think option B is probably the movement that they gave you, which is a six, four, nine, seven, or a six, four, nine, eight. And this is, um, converted pocket watch movement, it was a smaller pocket watch movement that now gets used in some watches, you know, IWC has used them a ton of companies have used them Panerai has, and they are of a really nice size for working on when you're starting out. But they also are much more they are effectively a smaller wristwatch movement that's just bigger. Really cool. Seagull makes them. That's the Chinese manufacturer. And you can get those off of eBay for like 50 bucks or something. And again, it'll have all the modern stuff on it. Like you would expect from a regular wristwatch. It's just, if you happen to break it, you shrug and you move on. |
| James | I guess in that case with a 6497, if you get through the process of tearing it down and taking it apart, following the courses, the rest of it, putting it back together, you could then go online to any number of sources and buy a case, hands, a dial and you could walk away with a watch that, that essentially you put together from the ground up. |
| Marshall Sutcliffe | I have one, the watch I used for the classes that I mentioned, I was thought that exact same thing, James, we are like-minded and I, and I have like, I guess the equivalent of a fake big pilot, like a huge, you know, 52 millimeter, whatever monster. I don't, I don't wear it, but I do have it. Yeah. |
| James | Jason was just asking there a moment ago about the tools. Is there kind of like a kit that you push towards people or do you kind of get a big list in Excel and slowly order each piece? |
| Marshall Sutcliffe | So I got asked this question a lot after the video started to get more views and I got tired of typing. And so I said, I'm going to make a video and I have made one and I can send you guys the link if you'd like. That's about 15, 12 or 15 minutes long or something where I go over every tool that you need to service a basic movement, take it apart, service it, put it back together, oil it, et cetera. Every single one. I put a lot of time into that video, not because I was particularly excited about it. I really get excited about the restorations, but this was more like a reference piece, but I wanted it to, I wanted it to stand the test of time. I wanted to be able to point people to that in three, four years and go, it's still valid. And basically I walk you through, the two tiers of tools that you'll find. If you look online, there's Swiss made stuff from like horror tech or, or bear John that are very high quality and quite expensive. And then there's Chinese made or offshore made. Sometimes it's India. Sometimes it's other places in Asia that are literally a 10th of the price. I mean, they are extremely cheap, but they're also like almost all kind of garbage. Like they just, they'll work in very short term at the best. And some of them don't work at all. And then some of them though, you can, you can buy and use. And you know, if it's a pad to put the watch case down on, guess what? That doesn't need to be made of like, you know, Swiss cow leather or whatever. It could just be some nonsense. So, you know, so there is actually some, and I point that out through the video. Oh, I'm looking forward to that video then. That's great. Yeah. So that's, that'll get you, you know, the, the, I, I have my eye on making a intermediate version of that, but I haven't actually started and I probably won't unless I'm pushed to do it. But that one, um, you know, hopefully it's in the test time. |
| James | you figure with something like that video, and then, you know, taking a look at watchfix.com, you could be well on your way to finding, uh, or even take pulling that beat up watch out of your own drawer. You may not even have to buy a watch. We all, let's face it. We all probably have a couple that are sitting around and that would probably be the starting point to, to giving all this a try. |
| Marshall Sutcliffe | That was mine. Yeah. Yeah. That was, that's where I, I found, I watched all those videos and then took the guys classes. And then I started building up my own tools. I didn't really find a great tool guide, which is another reason that I wanted to make one, but yeah, that'll, that'll get you going just fine. In fact, that'll take you up, you know, mostly through where I'm at now. I mean, you do need to get some more specialty tools if you're going to do more movements, like by volume. Um, you know, I have a watch cleaning machine now, for example, which just simplifies that process, that kind of stuff, but that will definitely get you into a watch and let you know if this is for you, right? Are you enjoying this? Is this a process that you like, or are you just going like, okay, I'm overwhelmed and I've had about enough. |
| James | That's great. And what are you, uh, what are you wearing today? What's on wrist? |
| Marshall Sutcliffe | On wrist. I've got my, um, Dornbluth und Sohn, the, you know, the, the German manufacturer and, uh, yeah, I've had this for a little over a year. This is my first foray into independent watchmaking. And funny enough, this actually has a 6497 in it. It's been heavily modified. It's plated in rose gold. The balance bridge is engraved. It has snailing on everything. It has one of the most beautiful, you know, Cote de Genève on the back. It's really fantastic, but yeah, that's what I'm wearing. But I did want to mention that the watch, a watch that I have on my desk in front of me uh, is because of you guys, I got an, an era, the dive watch that you guys talked about on the show. I had one of those weird moments. I was listening to your show really late. I was actually working on a video. I had you guys in my ears and it was like one 30 coming up on two. And James, you talked about the era and how you kind of described it. I was like, you know that I have been looking for something like that, a dive watch that's more modern, like looking forward rather than looking back. I have, I have a Submariner, like I have that kind of covered. but I wanted something like this. And so I went on and I ordered it at like two in the morning and then I woke up and I'd legit couldn't remember if I dreamed that or if I actually ordered. So I opened up my email and I'm like, all right, well I guess I'm the proud owner of an arrow watch and it's great. It's exactly how you described it. Like it's, it's big, right? I don't normally wear watches as big. Most of my watches are vintage, but that's kind of what I wanted. I want a big chunker. Um, loom beast as you describe. It's just insane. And extremely legible came with a couple of extra straps. And I have just really enjoyed it. I the don't have to care about it particularly nature of it is perfect. I just I wear it and I just I put it on when I go to basketball or if I go for a walk or whatever and I just don't think about it. |
| James | Yeah, no, they're goodies. That dial is super fun. The curved dial and the infill on the loom and the rest of it. I'll link to the story about that in the show notes, but that's cool. I'm glad you got it and enjoyed it. I'm sure the guys from Aero be thrilled to have another happy customer. |
| Marshall Sutcliffe | They were great too, man. They send you like a handwritten note and stuff. That's right. Yeah. |
| James | I'm like, wow. Yeah. So aside from the Aero, we've got a few more minutes here. Like, do you follow really high-end watchmaking so that you can kind of look at it and go like, well, how did they figure that out? Or what's going on here? Did you see that new Bulgari that's so thin it doesn't even have crowns really? |
| Marshall Sutcliffe | I did. Yeah. And I do, I do follow all of that stuff. You know, I like innovation for the sake of innovation. Like, I think a lot of good things come from that, even if they're not really practical in the moment. I think that you stumble on stuff or you're constantly pushing the boundaries of that stuff. So I find that interesting. And yeah, I mean, if somebody came up to me with that new Octafinissimo and was like, Hey, can you service this? You know, I'm just like, you know, I don't have the, you know, the, the QR code reader or whatever, but, but I love that stuff. I mean, cause some of the stuff that these houses, especially the smaller ones that are trying to, you know, win GPHC awards or kind of push the boundaries, they are insane with the stuff that they can do. And I love all of it. It's funny cause it's such a departure, but I think my taste in watches is relatively close to your guys's very practical type stuff. But the stuff that I'm interested in is wild, you know, the type of stuff, you know, MBNF I love for the, even though I probably wouldn't be caught dead, like actually wearing a horological machine cause they're just so weird on your wrist or whatever. Those things are just unbelievable. Everything from fitting a watch into, you know, a shape that just is, you know, like a dog or some type of spaceship or something is completely an engineering feat. It's way above my pay grade too, by the way. Like I look at it and try to kind of sort it out, but I mean, I, you know, I, I don't know how to design a watch movement or anything like that. So it's above my head, but I can certainly appreciate it. |
| James | Well, you know, in a fashion that's similar to automotive, I always find it interesting when somebody can see all the pieces, like, like the, the standard layout of a, you know, overhead cam V8, um, and see it in their mind, break it all apart and rearrange it in a different way and go, well, it's better because of this. And I go like, okay, I could point at most of the pieces of the engine and tell you what they are. Yes, that's exactly it. I might be able to remove those pieces and then put them back immediately and not mess that up. But beyond that, it's, it's, it's insane. When you start to read about some of the, even some of the stuff you think of, of things like certainly watch movements, but also internal combustion engines as being kind of maxed out in terms of their technology, but that's not at all the case. People are still making advancements, whether it's in thinness and watches, or Koenigsegg has figured out how to remove a traditional valve train. Really? Yeah, it's called free valve, and every valve is pneumatically actuated. So you can change valve timing independently and you can actually do it on the intake and the exhaust phase for each cylinder. |
| Marshall Sutcliffe | That's insane. |
| James | Yeah. So it's always exciting when you realize like, no, no, we're not just redoing things that we've been doing since the fifties or in watchmaking since the 1850s. Some of it we are to great effect still, but I find it really encouraging that there's still new stuff around the corner, new records, new technology. |
| Marshall Sutcliffe | Me too. I, you know, my, probably my favorite watch of the year is that one from Raul Paget or I don't know how to say his last name, but he put a detent escapement in a wristwatch recently. It's like, that's not a thing you can do. Like detent escapements don't start on their own. Like, you know how a wristwatch you wind it up and it'll kind of just get going under its own force. Like detent escapements don't do that. They're said to be more accurate, uh, in general. And he figured out a way so that when you picked it up and you have to give it like a, more of a noticeable shake, but it will get going. And it's in a wristwatch. It's like, that's, that thing's been around forever, the D10. I mean, it, you know, it was replaced by the Swiss lever escapement that we use now. And he went back and, and found a way to put it in a watch. It's still, there's always room for that kind of stuff. |
| James | That's wild. Super, super fun. Yeah. Uh, any, anything else? Have you excited these days, uh, new models you excited for anything from watches and wonders, anything on the radar, or you've got your era, you've got a handful of watches that need some attention and that's kind of the scope. |
| Marshall Sutcliffe | Yeah, that's it. I mean, I, you know, I'm always have my eye out for, for old stuff, but I'm not, I don't have like a huge appetite to keep getting new, new, new, you know, I, I tend to be pretty happy with what I've got and I've already got like a good watch collection that is exceeds anything I could need. So yeah, no. So I, I try to, you know, make sure that I keep my mind grateful, you know, and kind of focused on what I've got rather than, you know, always pining after whatever the new thing is. I'm not really a hype watch guy, and kind of find the the niches that I like the thing that I'm on the out on the lookout for next is my next independent watch. I really love this dorm booth. I wear it all the time. It's one of my favorites. And I'm looking for, you know, something along those lines, but one that I can actually afford on like that role project. which is like 80 grand or something. |
| James | Yeah, and I think Urban Juergensen does a detente escapement as well. I don't know if they've industrialized it, but they've definitely at least shown it. It may also be in a watch. |
| Marshall Sutcliffe | Oh, well, I'll have to check that out, because that kind of stuff always interests me for sure. For sure. |
| James | That's great. Aside from pointing people to wristwatch revival, anything you'd like people to know about, follow along, Instagram, or is it just hit the YouTube, if you love magic, |
| Marshall Sutcliffe | If you love Magic the Gathering, what should people... Yeah, I mean, not really. If they are interested in that stuff, I have a Twitter account for that. That's kind of where that space lives, is Marshall underscore LR. But then everything else is Wristwatch Revival on YouTube, Wristwatch underscore Revival on Instagram. |
| James | Fantastic. And any direct ways for the audience to support you or just watch the videos and enjoy them? |
| Marshall Sutcliffe | Yeah, I actually do have a Patreon set up for for wristwatch revival. Yeah, that's the way I went for my podcast for magic. And so I kind of poured it over a lot of that there. And yeah, it's patreon.com slash wristwatch revival. |
| James | All right, that'll be in the show notes. Marshall, this is fantastic. Thanks so much for coming on and chit chatting for a bit. This is super fun. |
| Marshall Sutcliffe | As you would say, James, it was a real treat. Thanks for having me on. |
| Jason Heaton | This was great. Thanks so much, Marshall. |
| James | All right. A big thank you to Marshall. That was incredible. Super fun to have him on. If you want to, by all means, you should be checking out his YouTube channel, which is Wristwatch Revival. That and any other links to what Marshall's up to will be in the show notes. TheGrenado.com. If you're not already subscribed on Substack, be sure to hit that up. You basically get an email on a Thursday morning with all of the links and the show and the rest of it all packaged up together. So a big thank you to Marshall for coming on and keep up the great work, man. We're both huge fans of the channel. All right. |
| Jason Heaton | How about some final notes? Yeah, sure. Let's do it. You've got a really great one. Very timely, given what's going on in Ukraine and kind of a guy we're both fans of here. So why don't you go first? |
| James | Yeah. So my first one is a story from our pal Robert Spangle. Robert, I've talked about several times on the show, and we hope to have him on at some point. And maybe this is a good time to have him on when he gets back. But Robert, Robert is a photojournalist and a fashion photographer. He shot PD Uomo a couple of times for Hodinkee. He's kind of a jack of all trades. He also runs the Observer Collection, which I've talked about before. I have one of their bags. I have two of their wallets. Really, really nice high-end leather goods that I use a lot and really enjoy. And Robert took an assignment from Esquire to go to Ukraine and be embedded with a volunteer territorial defense force. And I don't want to give anything away. I want to just very strongly say that everyone should check this out. It's not a super long story, but it has 28 incredible images that Robert shot while he was embedded in Kiev with this group. You know, night patrols, interiors, field hospitals, weapons, all this sort of stuff, supply lines, things like that. It's really incredible work. I can't wait to see more of it that comes from this trip. He's over there as we're recording this. And I just want to shine a light on it. I think he's a fascinating guy who's become something of a friend. And I'm really proud of him going out there and covering this. This is such a him thing to do and to have the support of Esquire and, you know, the people in charge there, I think makes a lot of sense. And it's, it's a nice piece of work. And I think it's important to get, you know, some, not, not unfiltered, but like some on the ground sort of considerations that aren't, you know, really terrifying Instagram videos and, uh, and stuff like that. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. I enjoyed this. I I've really enjoyed watching Robert's career over the past few years. You know, we, met him or I met him for the first time at our TGN get together that we did at the H10 event in New York a few years ago. Oh my gosh. So many years ago. He came to that and I didn't really know him. You knew him and I know you've bought a few of his products and, and you know, there are a lot of people kind of in our space kind of doing media and content and such. Um, they're just, they're just hustling. They're doing a whole bunch of different stuff. And Robert is one of these fascinating guys who really walks the talk. I mean, he's really, really out there doing some, some stuff in such a varied, you know, just such a variety of stuff. I mean, he, yeah, the portfolio is pretty diverse. If you follow him on Instagram at a thousand yard style, you know, you get everything from one, you know, one day he's posting about his latest leather bag and how he packs it for a trip. And then the next one, he's shooting a men's fashion event. And then, and then here he is in Ukraine. And I remember he did an article about fighting fires in California a few years ago. And then the, uh, his, his, trip to Afghanistan, which also I believe ran on Esquire, uh, not long ago. And it's like, he's just out there doing stuff in the world and it's, it's, uh, it's very inspiring and, uh, yeah, really cool. So that's a, that's a great final note and very timely. I think that just came out today, right? |
| James | Yep. Yeah, yeah, it did. It came out this morning when we're recording this. So it's just a couple of days old by the time the story, uh, by the time this episode goes live. And I'll also include a link to some of Robert's other work that we just spoke about. You should check it all out. Robert's awesome. Uh, be sure to follow him thousand yard style. And, uh, and hopefully we can, we can maybe even have him on the show sometime in the future to talk about this and gear. And he, he's in the same vibe. He, you know, he's a big fan, big Mark two fan as far as watches go, but he also has some, some cool, more collectory sort of stuff that he wears. Uh, you know, when he's not out, out working, I think it'd be fun to have him on and he's, he's a really nice guy. So, uh, proud of you, Robert, if you have me listening and a great work with the story, I chatted with him briefly this morning, uh, when, uh, when the story went live. So this is good stuff and I highly recommend it. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. |
| James | Good one. |
| Jason Heaton | What have you got? All right. Mine is a, it's, it's kind of a cool one. And I bet a lot of people have heard of this one as well. It's kind of like wristwatch revival. Um, this is big jet TV. So this is a, this is awesome. This is a YouTube channel, a guy out of the UK who's a real aviation nerd and, and he's out there at runways around the world, just shooting live takeoffs and landings of big jets, you know, commercial planes, military planes, et cetera. And, and he's made, Such a following. He's built such a following doing this. And it's just fun. I was turned on to this because if you remember, gosh, a few weeks back, there was that really strong storm that blew through the UK. I think it was storm Eunice, I believe. And, you know, high winds, a hundred mile per hour winds. And, and he, he, he's got his, uh, his dedicated van with like a viewing platform on the top of his van, where he sets up a tripod and a camera and he just films takeoffs and landings. And he was there during storm Eunice watching these, Big commercial and cargo jets take off and land in these high crosswinds and just insane. And then he provides this commentary for every takeoff and landing and he's very enthusiastic about it. He's just fun to listen to. And you know, I'm, I'm a casual aviation nerd. I don't know all the planes and, and you know, jargon and that sort of thing, but there's something mesmerizing about watching big, big jumbo jets take off and land. It's still defies. You know, my sense of logic, like how these things, it's like watching it, you know, like how does a ship float? It's like, how does a seven 47 or a three 80. Sure. And get off the ground. And recently he, uh, he traveled to Anchorage, Alaska and he was at Ted Stevens airport, which is a huge cargo hub. And they get just, it's like seven 47 heaven. There's just like one after another. And, you know, queen of the sky is great. Beautiful plane to watch all these big cargo, seven 47s, one after another, just taking off and landing and taxiing. And his enthusiasm is just contagious. And you just watch this and, and he just streams this stuff and you can watch the old episodes and, and, you know, search for certain storm or certain airport. And odds are he's been there filming and, uh, and the pilots have gotten to know him. And, and so it's, uh, it's just good fun. So if you're, if you love watching planes take off and land, you're one of those guys who likes to park by a airport viewing parking lot and watch planes. Uh, this is your, this is your YouTube channel. So check it out. Big Jet TV. I love the name of it too. |
| James | Great name, 300,000 subscribers. This is rad. Niche content is so much fun. I'll watch some of it. I don't know. I'll report back. I don't know that I care to watch planes take off and land, but if somebody's excited about it... Oh, and listen to him, too. |
| Jason Heaton | He's great. |
| James | Yeah. I could get behind this. This is cool. What a neat way to, I don't know, capture something that's exciting to you and share with a huge number of people. Oh, yeah. Very cool. Very, very cool. All right, well, that's the whole show. Again, a big thank you to Marshall Sutcliffe of Wristwatch Revival, and we're off next week for Watches and Wonders and Jason's Travel. We'll be back the week after with a special Watches and Wonders episode covering all the stuff that we really liked from the show. Hopefully, I was hands-on with the majority of it. But other than that, if you're a supporter, keep your eyes out for the March Q&A. It'll come up right at the end of the month, 28th, 29th, 30th, somewhere around there. I'll try and get it up before I leave for Switzerland proper. So that should be fine in terms of timing. But that'll hit the supporter feed in just the next little while once this comes up in the next four or five days. And as always, thank you so much for listening. If you want to subscribe to the show, get into the comments for each episode or consider supporting the show directly, maybe even grab yourself a new TGN signed NATO and get access to the Q&A, please visit TheGreyNATO.com. Music throughout a siesta by Jazzer via the free music archive. |
| Jason Heaton | And we leave you with this quote from Marianne Radmacher, who said I am not the same, having seen the moon shine on the other side of the world. |