The Grey NATO – 179 – Bond, James Bond

Published on Thu, 03 Feb 2022 07:00:25 -0500

Synopsis

This is a discussion about the James Bond films spanning over 60 years and 25 movies. The hosts share their personal histories with discovering Bond, their favorite films and performances, the cars, watches, gadgets, villains, and overall impact of the franchise. They provide an in-depth review and critique of the latest film No Time to Die, including spoiler discussions about the major plot points and character arcs. They also speculate about the future of the Bond franchise after Daniel Craig's departure, including potential new actors to take over the role, continuing the legacy through books/TV shows, and evolving the series to be more modern and inclusive.

Links

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Transcript

Speaker
James	Hello and welcome to another episode of The Grey Nado, a loose discussion of travel, diving, driving, gear, and most certainly watches. This is episode 179 and it's proudly brought to you by the newly formed TGN supporter crew and we thank you all for your continued support. Visit thegreynado.com and click on support to check it out. Without further ado, let's dive into episode 179. James, how's it going?
Jason Heaton	Yeah, not too bad. You know, it's a, it's another day here. It's still kind of cold. It's still super snowy, but it's February, but we've made, we've made it to February, which can be, I don't know, like, is that the worst month for weather for Minneapolis?
James	I think it's the month when I have the most winter fatigue. I've started to realize it. I like winter a lot, probably more than most people, but by this time I'm kind of already thinking ahead to, yeah. And even though it's the shortest month, it always feels longer than the rest because I think you're anticipating March, which starts to feel like you're turning the corner.
Jason Heaton	You know, I'm not wild about winter. I think that's pretty clear on the record here. My interest kind of comes and goes and I'm sure if I devoted more time to like getting outside in it, I would enjoy it more. Yeah. But I find February to be the tough one for me. January, like from a mental standpoint is tough because it's the start of the new year, but it also feels like you slow down because of how, what the weather's like.
Unknown	Yeah.
Jason Heaton	But I often find February, especially like February in Ontario, is pretty gnarly. That's where you're going to get the coldest days, typically, but not always. Who knows? It could be a little bit different this year. We're staring down the barrel of another snowstorm that might start, you know, before this episode actually comes out. Yeah. But aside from weather, you know, I don't know if I left it in the cut from last week, but I was having a real doozy of a time getting a battery, a new battery for my Jeep. The one that was in it just couldn't handle you know, cranking at negative 20 Celsius, I think of 18, stuff like that, like around 10, negative 10, it would, it would work again.
Unknown	Yeah.
Jason Heaton	You know, I, I, I looked into battery options. I don't really, I'm very much trying to stick to, especially for 2022, like a buy once cry once philosophy, like I'm not cutting any corners on this stuff. And especially not when you've got to drive in the winter, uh, in the cold and the weather, all that kind of stuff. I hate to have a car not start when I was a long way from home. Oh yeah. So I wanted a proper battery and the one to buy as an Optima yellow top. This isn't an ad I paid full price for this expensive battery, etc. But that's the one that I like. They have never let me down. You can fully recharge them. They're good tech. And they're a little bit more expensive than a battery might cost at, say, Canadian Tire or whatever. But I bought it, and it said two-day shipping from everybody's favorite website. And I think it took 17 days to get here. Holy cow. Jeez. It rocked up in a box that clearly wasn't the one it was shipped in. It was just destroyed and covered in tape. It had been taped up and repaired. Oh, wow. But for the last two weeks, I guess, if I knew I was going to use the Jeep the day before, I would go out and remove the battery, bring it inside to warm it up and then go back out in negative 15, reinstall the battery with a driver and the rest of it, and then drive away. And thankfully, I believe that phase of my life is over.
James	That sounds like the kind of hack I used to do in college. You know, I used to put like a big moving, I used to drape a big moving blanket over the engine I'd run it in the evening and then drape this blanket over the engine and shut the hood down on top of it. And then hope it would start the next morning when I had to get up to go to work.
Jason Heaton	I mean, it was like the stuff you do, you know, man, because the Jeep doesn't have a block heater and I looked into installing one and it's very complicated and takes time and effort and nothing I want to do in cold weather. Certainly. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, so I, I moved away from that idea as a, as a young, uh, also, uh, not necessarily wealthy kid. You can, you can hang out like a work light. Sure. In your engine compartment near the battery. Oh yeah. That's kind of like a really bad, inefficient block heater. Yeah. But you know, the Jeep's a bit of a rat's nest when it comes to these things. There's not like a lot of space. I would hate to melt something in there. And uh, and so it was kind of between like, do I do the, get a battery tender so I could, I could kind of keep the battery charged in the Jeep, but have to run that outside. And finally I was like, look, I'm spending the better part of $500 on a new battery, which I thought I would have had immediately. And I didn't. So I just figured that the free route, of taking the battery inside and letting it warm up. I don't drive a ton. Yeah. Like there's no need for me to drive really. Uh, so this is, it was a little pain, but I thought people might get a kick out of it. Cause that is a very like 18 year old, your first car. Uh, it doesn't really start in the winter. So I just removed the battery every time I leave it makes it harder to steal too. I suppose. Right.
James	Or with a stick shift, park it on a Hill so you can bump start it.
Jason Heaton	Exactly. For sure. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Unfortunately, no hills quite nearby, unless I wanted to use one of the many snow banks we're currently dealing with in the city here. You've been getting outside for more enjoyable experiences, yeah?
James	In 2021, Gushani and I bought a season pass for the local downhill ski area, and we did the same this year. And last year we were going, man, we'd go once or twice a week. And this year we went just for the first time last Thursday afternoon. We played hooky from work and went out to the ski area. They opened at noon and it was great. There was hardly anyone on the Hill and we had some really good runs. The weather was great. Um, but I, I'm not sure what's different this year. I think, you know, last year for one thing, the ski area, which is actually owned by Vale resorts, uh, it's one of the kind of satellite, uh, ski areas and they did it on reservation. So if you were a season pass holder, you'd make a reservation for a specific day and then you were kind of assured that it would be not as packed with people because of COVID. Well, they've, they've taken away that, uh, that kind of layer of caution this year. And so now it's, it's a bit of a free for all. And we, we had driven out there on the weekend a couple of weeks ago, naively thinking we could, you know, just pull up and park and hop on the lift. And man, it was just, there was a line of cars out the, out the parking area. And so we turned around and came home and did something else, but But it felt good to get out, you know, the ski legs came back pretty quickly and we had a really great time and there weren't many people there.
Unknown	And then good.
James	Yeah. Other than that, it's been, you know, cross country skiing, which I've been doing a couple of days a week. And then we went for a really nice hike on, I guess it was Saturday this week. It was warm and kind of put our, uh, we've got those, uh, kind of yak tracks cleats on our hiking boots and just went out and tromped around a bit. So, yeah, I mean, you know, we were talking about winter and kind of fatigue and, and, you know, I'm just like fighting it as much as I can by trying to get out and do as much fun stuff as I can, you know, build outdoor fires and hike and, and, you know, tromp around the lakes and that sort of thing. So we'll see that hopefully that'll get us through, through the next few weeks.
Jason Heaton	Yeah. Well, in the spirit of it now being February, we have to start turning on some of the added benefits of those who are specifically supporting the show via our TGN supporter crew. So those of you who've been waiting for a Q&A, here are your official directions and how it's going to work. Originally, I was just going to make special posts from Substack for the one Q&A episode a month and send those to people who are on the subscriber list. There was a specific request on the show notes from several shows ago to not split the feeds, essentially to offer two mirrored feeds. So the normal feed is how the podcast is delivered now, and it's done so via SoundCloud and People didn't want to have to be subscribed to both, which I understand. I guess it's, it's quite a bit more work to do it the way that we're going to do it. So I hope people do appreciate it. Um, but the way this is going to work for the Q and a is, uh, the, the, we're going to create an entire secondary podcast feed, which will be private. It'll be hosted by a sub via sub stack. And when you're a supporter or, or shortly, I'll be sending a message out to all of our current supporters and you'll get a feed, which is like a long website address. And you can put that into the podcast app on your phone or your computer or whatever. If you use Pocket Casts or Apple or whatever you prefer, you can take that feed, put it into your system, and it'll pull the episodes. And basically, that private feed will have five episodes a month. So towards the end of every month, between, say, the 22nd and the end of the month, we're going to drop the monthly Q&A. They're going to be longer than they have been, especially the first one in February, because we're going to cover for January as well. We have a bunch of great questions. But if you are a supporter or not, you can send a question in, but if you want to be able to hear the answer, uh, I suggest being a supporter, you'll get an email with instructions on how this will work. Uh, but basically you'll be able to sort of unsubscribe or remove the feed for the SoundCloud side and get this new one. Um, you'll get the same four emails for main episodes per month, and then those on the feed will also get the fifth email with the show notes and everything for the Q&A. If you're listening and you'd like to send in a question, please send it to thegraynadoatgmail.com. We're not replying to say we got it. Every question that comes in will be dealt with on the show. That's how the Q&A works. And it doesn't have to be just about watches or Land Rovers or Jeeps or whatever. It can be literally anything you'd like to pick our brains on. We're trying to make this more of like a community talk. Make the recording on your phone's voice memo app and then just email it to thegraynadoatgmail.com. We then add it to a folder, and then we just start going through that folder when we sit down and record, which we're going to do in the next few days. If you're not subscribed and you're interested, visit thegreatnado.com. And for everyone who is subscribed, I hope that's clear enough. Basically, you'll have a new feed, which will have everything. You'll only have to deal with one feed, and then that's the feed for anyone on the supporter crew.
James	That make sense, Jason? I think so. I mean, I think, you know, I'm sure there'll be some teething issues and growing pains and a lot of questions, but that's what we're here for, and we want to make this as as easy on you guys as possible. And thanks again for all the support. And we hope this works out well and it's sustainable as we go forward.
Jason Heaton	Yeah. And then like we've said in the past, we're currently developing some ideas for continually expanding that content. I don't think we'll go to many more than five shows a month. There might be cool opportunities to do the occasional surprise show, which again would be in that private feed when I make it available. But I do think we're considering starting to do like written work or, or some video stuff. It just, just depends on opportunities in the future. So if you, if you start to get more emails from us, that's why we're looking to try and expand and make sure that, you know, the folks who are actively supporting the show feel like they're getting pretty good value. You know, I think we're essentially charging what a dollar to an episode. And Jason, I take that each get one of those dollars and we take it seriously. Yeah, true.
James	How about some risk check? Yeah, let's, uh, let's jump into it. Mine is kind of apropos for, for today's main topic to a certain degree. Um, but it's also a continuation of this, uh, one watch one month experiment that I've been talking about for the past couple of episodes. So it's the, it's the white dialed Seamaster. And after my dalliance with the white strap from Zealand, which I still love, I took it off and I put it back on the. The black rubber Omega sort of planet ocean style strap, which I don't know. I just, I can't get enough of this strap. I love the way it looks and. since I'm wearing the watch for, you know, skiing and running and that sort of thing. It's kind of the perfect choice. I had it on NATO briefly, but I'm, I'm having a hard time getting it, giving up the strap. So that's, that's where it sits today. And yeah, probably for the foreseeable future.
Jason Heaton	What about you? Yeah. I mean, uh, I'm, I'm wearing a Doxa, uh, you know, I just, just kind of, uh, in the past week dropped the review for the 600T, which is a watch I didn't end up liking. Uh, not necessarily due to like a specific fault of the watch, which I tried to make clear in the review, people seem to be focusing on the fact that it was a negative review, which is fine. I mean, I'm just out here to try and give you my impression of the watch. So it's one guy's thought. I've had a lot of experience with the Doxa stuff. And for a 40 millimeter watch, it wore on my wrist really big and really tall, like we talked about on the last episode. But, you know, I don't like living in a world where I'm not like very happy with Doxa and everything they do. So as soon as I finished that review, I cracked out the sub 350th anniversary Sea Rambler, one of my favorite watches of all time. and put it on. And despite it being a bigger watch in two of the three main dimensions, it's perfect for my wrist. It sits nice and flat. I wore it on that mesh that I bought for the Bremont for a little while, which was kind of fun. But really, I put it on... I've got it on a TGN NATO. Oh, perfect. It's perfect. Yeah. I love this watch. It's so comfortable. It's easy to wear. I love the... I think it's beautiful. And I think it's another example that we're seeing some diversity from from Doxa in that you can still buy a 300. The current generation, you could go down to the 200 if you want something a little bit more cost-effective and a little bit more of an Omega case shape, case vibe for that one. And then we have the 600 as well. So yeah. Yeah. So that's what I've got on and I just love it. There's also like it's a watch that normally I would attribute to summer, but the kind of silvery dial does kind of work pretty well on these like really bright sort of winter days.
James	Yeah, I think the orange is definitely summer, but I think the silver kind of has that, uh, yeah, you can, yeah, I can see some winter in that. Yeah. Kind of an ice diving frozen, frozen North sort of vibe to it.
Jason Heaton	Yeah. So, yeah, that's what I've got on, but I think now is probably a fine time to jump into the main topic. Cause I think this will be a long one and it's based on a suggestion in case somebody is wondering, like, why, why would you do an episode all about James Bond? We've talked about James Bond a lot. Uh, Jason, you're a huge fan. I would consider myself kind of a medium level fan. certainly a huge fan of certain outings and elements of the series. But back in September, we took an episode off. Jason was recovering from some surgery. And we took an episode off and we asked on Substack what you would like for topics for future episodes. And we got well over 100 comments and a good portion of them said, do a Bond episode. Yeah. Yeah. And I gotta be honest, I never really considered just doing an episode all about James Bond. Like we've talked about Bond movies before tons, especially when a new one comes out or, or film club stuff, that sort of thing. I think there's at least two of them in film club, but yeah, so this is a, this is like a full, uh, Bond episode and Jason, because I consider you kind of like my personal kind of knowledge base on Bond and tastemaker for Bond stuff. How do you want to start for this? How do you see the, uh, the episode kind of working out?
James	Yeah. I mean, I, I think, uh, you know, part of the, kind of the buildup to this episode and the interest probably came from the release of no time to die, which was so anticipated. It kept getting put off and postponed because of COVID and theater closings and that sort of thing. And so people were sort of primed for this and we never really properly talked even about the new movie, um, which we'll get to certainly. But I think a good place to start is, you know, maybe let's just kind of talk about our own kind of histories or experiences with, uh, with the bond, you know, films, books, kind of the character, Uh, whatever. I think, I think your, your start was one that I didn't even consider or hadn't even expected because I don't overlap with this at all. So, so why don't you go first and just kind of, how did you, how did you become aware of bond or, or get to know it?
Jason Heaton	Yeah, for sure. I would, before we get, and I want, I'll jump right into it, but before we get to that, just to make it very clear, we're talking about James Bond's movies, books. There's this episode will be full of spoilers. I despise spoilers. We're going to leave the no time to die spoilers to the, towards the end. And I'll give you another spoiler warning, but like, we're going to start talking about bonds. So if you haven't seen skyfall, if you haven't seen a golden eye, if you haven't seen, like, if you haven't seen some of the big ones in the series, we're probably going to ruin something here for you. Yeah. So if they were very much on your list to get to in the short term, I would not listen to this episode. I'm just save it. It'll be here when you're ready. Um, but we're, we're not going to do, I'll do another spoiler warning before we go specifically into our kind of review of no time to die. But up until then, this is going to be kind of a loose conversation about all sorts of our favorite bits about Bond, and I'm sure some of that will be spoilery. So that I think is a very fair spoiler warning. There's also one in text on the show notes, and we'll do another one when we get to the, so if you just want to skip the no time to die part, I'll give you another heads up before we get into that part of the topic. So as far as my start with Bond, it was definitely like, I grew up in a household where like my dad, is a big movie fan, but the Bond stuff is maybe a little bit too campy, um, uh, for his taste. I think like there's certain bonds he likes and there's certain that I think he finds kind of eye rolling. So whereas I might've grown up watching Hitchcock and, um, and you know, stuff like where Eagles dare, like, which is a very Bondy sort of film. We didn't have like a strong Bond base in my house, uh, growing up. And I was the eldest of four boys. So it would have been up to me to have created that base. And I think at the time, back in the day, my first real introduction to Bond was for the GoldenEye video game on Nintendo 64. That's amazing.
James	I've never experienced that. I mean, I don't know anything about it other than that it's very popular.
Jason Heaton	It was huge. I mean, it was the cultural thing when I was that age, right? So that game came out in 1997. I would have been 11. And I don't even think I knew anyone who like had a brand new N64 and was getting brand new games at the time. So it was probably like the end of 97 or even early on 98 before I played the game. So I was kind of in a younger group. I would have been, you know, 11 or 12, but that, that was kind of my first introduction to, to the James Bond world. And then I think Jason, you said Goldeneye came out in 96?
James	Uh, 95, I think.
Jason Heaton	Yeah. In 95. Okay. So, and I don't remember seeing Goldeneye for like a couple more years. I definitely saw pieces of it. Yeah. But I think Goldeneye was the first Bond I ever saw, uh, kind of all the way through. And I remember being kind of like, I don't know how you couldn't have been floored by it at, at whatever I was 12 or 13. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Um, and this, this movie and those Brosnan ones, they're so slick.
Unknown	Yeah.
Jason Heaton	Right. Yeah. There's a, there's a smoothness and, and it was, it was a weirder time for movies, the mid nineties, you know? Um, and I think Bond Bond had a tougher time then, then the Daniel Craig ones did. Mm. by my read, because there were a lot of really good sort of spy-based movies in the mid-90s, right? All of those dad thrillers, all the Tom Clancy stuff, the Grisham stuff, like there was a lot of competition. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah, for sure. There's a lot of competition for... Exactly. Yeah, Die Hard, any of the Jack Ryan stuff, right? Yeah. I think there was a lot of competition for essentially the American perspective on a sort of James Bond. Mm-hmm. Right? And whether that was a sort of bookish, tough guy like a Harrison Ford playing Jack Ryan or something more like even Hunt for Red October, right? That's a very Bond, a set piece, a sort of indescribably expensive high-end submarine that's defecting from Russia. Right. All of those stories could have been Bond stories. They just weren't at the time. Yeah. And I remember slowly dipping in wider and wider, but The absolute truth is that Bond for me really started with Casino Royale.
James	It's a good place to start. Yeah, for sure. It's where it started. They've been kind of rebooted it and it's based on the first book. So it is a good place to start.
Jason Heaton	And it's also his origin story, right? You get that right in the opening minutes of him getting his double O status. Yeah. Character development in James Bond has to be so difficult when you're the writer in charge of the film or the group of writers in charge of the film, even just adapting the book. Yeah. so that you can preserve anything that makes Bond seem like not a robot, but not in a way that undermines his ability to be Bond. It's this weird balancing act, right? Right. One of the things, the elements that makes Casino Royale so good is that they give you a Bond origin story that feels fast and kind of weightless, but it gives you everything you need to know about him, that he had a start, that you know a little bit about his family life, You clearly get an eagle's eye view at his problems, the things he can't handle within himself. And then you get this really lovely kind of love story that helps to really explain Bond moving forward from Casino Royale. And if you think of Casino Royale as the start of the Bond story, which as you said it is, even though it isn't in the lineage of the films, I think that gives you some context for kind of all the Bond films. If you go back and watch the Connery ones, whatever. Right. Right. True. Yeah. I'm rambling. Where did you get to, uh, where, where did you find your start with Bond?
James	Yeah. I mean, you know, I'm, I'm by age and by, by Bond, I think I'm kind of a generation earlier than you, because my start was, was during the Roger Moore era. So he, he came, of course there was Timothy Dalton in between Roger Moore and Pierce Brosnan, but I largely kind of ignored the Dalton era unfairly. So, cause I think, uh, when you revisit his two movies, they're, they're quite good, Um, but you know, Roger Moore was, was Bond from I think 71 until, you know, 85 or so. And, and that movie that he finished with was a view to a kill that had Christopher Walken and, and Grace Jones. And, and it was the height of Bond kind of campy, uh, you know, Roger Moore was in his sixties by that time. I mean, just simply too old to play the character. And I remember seeing that movie and I was roughly the age that you were being introduced to. uh, GoldenEye via Nintendo. So I was, I was kind of too young to kind of get what the allure of this was, you know, that who was this old man climbing around on the GoldenGate bridge and this weird plot and whatever. But I think then when I rediscovered Bond was as an adult and that's when Pierce Brosnan came on the scene and seeing GoldenEye and his series of movies. And I think, you know, for one thing, I think Brosnan was slick is a good word or smooth is a good description. of his movies because you know, he was like, uh, Gishani and I recently rewatched GoldenEye and it's, it stands up. It's a great movie. Um, but Brosnan was made to play Bond. I mean, he was like, when you, when you, when kind of the average casual movie consumer thinks of Bond, that's who they think of. I think not Brosnan himself, but that image of the guy who looks really good in a more erudite.
Jason Heaton	Yeah. Like cultured, cultured brute.
James	Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And, um, to, to see him and to be an adult by that time myself, you know, I was in my early to mid twenties, um, it really had an impact on me. And I think it's because that's the time in my life when I was forming my kind of, uh, ideas about who I wanted to be as a person. And I think, you know, you could argue that James Bond would be a very poor role model for a man, uh, based on, on the historical, uh, character in, in many of the books and in the early movies, the Connery movies, especially who was, you know, fairly misogynist and cruel and, and kind of heartless to a certain degree. Yeah. But by the time you get to Brosnan and you get Judi Dench as M, things had shifted a little bit. He was a little bit more respectful of women. The smoking was gone. The, you know, um, and what you're left with is, is what I still think is the allure of Bond. And that is that this is a, um, a man who is not so much a superhero, But I think he's, he's a very versatile and capable, um, and more than anything, just resourceful and brave. I don't think this is somebody who is, has any particular superpowers or extraordinary ability. I think he's just brave. I think he's willing to jump in and do what needs to be done and learn on the fly. And he knows enough about a lot of different things to, Uh, to get by, you know, if, if, if he has to suddenly jump into an airplane or a helicopter and figure out how to fly it, or, you know, as in, as in golden, I drive a tank through the streets of St. Petersburg. Like he's going to figure it out on the fly and he's had enough background to know which switches to pull, uh, and which levers to push and that sort of thing. So whether it's scuba diving or skiing or, or skydiving, like he can kind of do it. And I think for a 20, whatever, six year old I was. It was an eye opener. It was like, yeah, I want to be that guy. I want to travel around the world. I want to be able to do enough things competently. And, and, and that element of being cool under pressure is always something that I've wanted to aspire to. So I think, you know, bond to me, that's what it represents. And I think when I watch the old movies or read the books, that's what comes through to me. Not so much the, the, the kind of the silliness or the, the gadgets as much as, um, as kind of this, this resourceful person. On the other side, I don't gravitate towards like Marvel and DC comics, comics movies. I'm not into, you know, Batman or, or Captain America and things like that, because I just don't find that anything I can emulate, you know?
Jason Heaton	I don't want to be unfair and say like, Oh, they're not movies. They're not cinema. Like that's not the point. They're just not for me. I think where, where my tailoring goes in that direction would be like more towards a John wick. Oh, sure. Cause I like the Kung Fu films. and the history of Kung Fu and all of the sort of martial arts adjacent stuff and how much of a talent that is to be able to do that kind of stuff. And I think that Bond hits the same note for me. But I have to really agree with the value in my mind for Bond isn't that he's handsome and can get any woman or seems to have unlimited access to money. or, or, you know, he has a license to kill all these things that seem, you know, at least if you don't think too hard, seem really great. Yeah. It is that resourcefulness. Yeah. It's like he could get into any vehicle and it can be like, you've seen it even just in the arc of Daniel Craig. It'll be from a boat that I, I haven't seen him drive it before, but he seems to know what he's doing all the way to like when he gets in the Caterpillar, the man construction, people are going to be upset with me. But when he rips the train apart with the front end loader, Oh yeah. Yeah. and then runs along it and you're just like, is there anything like, has this guy ever like come across a vehicle or a weapon he didn't know how to like pick up prime and start firing ever? Right. So that kind of stuff does really feel, it does give it that little glint of like a superhero movie because there is an unflappable-ness to Bond. We could go deeper into this, but the other thing is that Bonds always reflect what's happening in cinema at the time. Right. So the browsing ones came from a time when, yeah, people wanted adventure sports and you had to have paragliding in every movie and skydiving. And then, of course, you think back to Casino Royale's famous opening parkour sequence. Oh, yeah. You wouldn't do a parkour sequence right now. Nobody cares about parkour very much. Yeah. Yeah. We had years of that being like every YouTube video had some cool parkour move and everybody knew that guy's name. The dude that he's chasing is one of the best. Yeah. Right. Parkour athletes in the world. I think you have to kind of see the bond within the context of its time. Yeah. Of when it came out because they don't get to make these as vacuums. If the bond, like it has to have certain things that are popular in media at the time.
James	I think, um, you know, you're and your brother, um, are, are definitely more kind of cinema students of cinema. Maybe cinema nerds is a good way to describe both you and Tim. And I think, Um, I'm less of that, but I have seen a kind of a change in, I think if you look at the Daniel Craig era of movies, you start to see movies that you can actually call a film and you can study as a film and you can look at the cinematography and the story, whereas the earlier ones felt less so. But I think with the exception, I would say of most of the Daniel Craig movies, I don't think any of them are great. films from start to finish. If you, if you took any one of them, they're always, you know, slow parts and kind of cringe worthy parts and you know, bad dialogue and some poor acting, et cetera. But I think at least for me, what I do is I remember the bond movies in terms of a series of scenes that I kind of string together in this, in this consciousness. I think we all do that. There's this collective consciousness about double Oh seven as this entity. And I think you picture, you know, Connery scuba diving and you picture, you know, Brosnan skiing and you picture, you know, Roger Moore. I mean the opening scene from the spy who loved me where he, uh, parachutes, he skis off the cliff, the parachute opens and it's the union Jack. I mean the greatest opening in any bond film. But I mean, forget, I mean that movie's okay, but like by and large his movies were, were pretty bad. Um, but, but you see him and all of that together as that's double Oh seven. And I think, That's so powerful as you know, of course the movie franchise is now 60 years old this year. So that's what happens when you, you run for 60 years and 20, 20, 25 movies. Um, it just becomes that in consciousness and I can't think of another film series that has done that. Um, but to look at them as movies, as cinema, I think you almost have to fast forward and look at, you know, the past five, you know, the Daniel Craig movies and start and start to really look at them as, as serious cinema because they brought in, you know, really good directors and some high powered writing and that sort of thing.
Jason Heaton	Now I'm curious, and this may be a stupid question, but I'll ask it nevertheless. You've seen all 25?
James	I have. Yeah. I mean, some many, many years ago, I have the, a few years ago, actually, I guess it was 10 years ago now, I got as a gift, the Blu-ray collection, Bond 50, which has all the movies on DVD. And I always mean to like sit down and just kind of plow through start to finish. Um, but I haven't done that. I kind of pick and choose out of my favorites. But, uh, yeah, I, short answer is yeah, I have.
Jason Heaton	Yeah. Okay. I, cause I definitely haven't seen all of them. There's definitely a Roger Moore or two that I haven't hit and I haven't seen definitely not all the way through as like an adult. I haven't seen the Dalton ones.
Unknown	Yeah.
Jason Heaton	I remember elements of the movies, you know, like, yeah, very much so. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean like those ones I listed before, like a ton, like a good Tom Clancy, a Jack Ryan sort of story, like a, like a, you know, those, they're all perfect. Yeah. Yeah. But you know, they don't all age equally. Certainly the Dalton ones, I just, for whatever reason I haven't gotten into. Right. But I don't think that he was a bad bond in any way. He, I guess he only, he did too. He did too. It's a little bit light for a, well, I mean, Lazenby did the one, I guess.
James	Yeah. And I, the, the one thing that, that people do say about Dalton and I would tend to agree is he was maybe the wrong the right bond at the wrong time because he, his, he was a very good actor. You know, he had some stage experience and he was, he was good. He had a good look to him and hot fuzz. Yeah. Yeah. Incredible. But, um, but he, he played bond very grimly. And I think a lot of people say that foreshadowed what Daniel Craig did. Um, but, but that maybe the time at which they released those movies, the public wasn't quite ready for it as this sort of whiplash after coming off of Roger Moore, to a very grim kind of rebooted Bond that we saw again with Daniel Craig after, after Brosnan's movies. And I think, so it is, it is nice to go back and rewatch the Dalton movies. And, and one of them, I think I want to say it's I want to say it's a view to a kill was actually quite faithful to some elements of the book. The Ian Fleming book, which I thought was interesting, but yeah, it's where it's worth, worth checking out his stuff if you can find it.
Jason Heaton	So for you, would you say that you're like your favorite era of Bond is Craig's?
James	I would, you know, the, the snob in me, the, you know, this bond, you know, purist, you know, I, I want to say it was Connery because I think he was sure he was the original. And I think he embodied kind of the role that I read. I've read the books as well. And I think he kind of embodies that character, but man, it's, it's hard to beat the Daniel Craig era just in terms of he's a good actor. They were really well shot, you know, for the most part of the stories were good. There were a couple of low moments in there, but, uh, but yeah, I, I definitely, have loved the recent ones.
Jason Heaton	His movies are... The plots are complicated.
Unknown	Yeah, yeah.
Jason Heaton	Maybe more so than they need to be. Especially when we get to... Yeah. I think so, especially when we get to No Time to Die. I think one of the things that worked really well for Casino Royale is that they got the complexity out of the way quickly, like I was talking about at the top of the discussion with his backstory. Yeah, yeah. And then you're in a scene, you're in Montenegro, and you, you kind of like, you understand the four walls of this hotel casino they're staying at. Yeah. And his car is there. And Eva green is there and was sheaf is there. And like, it's, it's, it's like, it almost feels like a stage play at times, especially the, um, the, the, the poker sequences. Right. Yeah. Are, are really good. And like, don't get me wrong. I think that it's easy to say that like poker movies are good, but I think it's really easy to make a bad movie about gambling. Yeah. Yeah. They can't all be Casino Royale or Rounders, right? Like they can't all be the best ones. But I think they do a really good job of making it like interesting and then not going too heavy on the poker exposition. You know, Felix is doing a little bit of that from the corner or Mr. White, maybe the two of them together are doing some of that from the other side of the room and kind of explaining why certain bets are going a certain way because poker is a little bit complicated. But that's another example where like these movies had to reflect what was going on in the world and Casino Royale came out during the huge explosion of popularity in Texas Hold'em. Yeah, you're right. So it's the mid 2000s, but before the financial crisis really kind of set in, 2006. And the years before that, that's when I was in university. And poker was huge. You couldn't get away from it. Yeah. Yeah. It became the, it became the, the, the, the thing that people did if you had an afternoon free and you didn't want to look at the football game. Right. Um, and, and don't get me wrong. I would play poker because it would mean hot wings would be nearby, but I was never that big of a fan of poker and were there for the wings. Um, but then, and then you'd see it in these movies. It was just, it was getting really big.
James	Yeah. And, and, you know, So there's that timing. And then the funny thing is that that that's based on Fleming's original bond book from, from 1953, which, you know, old, I mean, we're talking ancient history at that point, but it's, it felt very relevant in the way it was updated for that time. Um, for, for Oh six was, was just brilliantly done. And I think it was such a, like you said, it was such a tight story. And I think the, the origin story, um, that they kind of inserted in the pre-title sequence was great. And then you, you're, you're dropped into, you know, Madagascar and this bomb maker. And it's like the movie gets distilled from the beginning down to, like you said, this sort of set piece, this, this almost stage play at the end, which was, which was wonderful. And I, I can't say enough good things. And I think we're segueing now into, you know, this sort of subheading we have on our favorite Bond films. And I think it sounds like Casino Royale is up there for both of us. I, I would say it is my favorite and I think it's, It just had so much going for it. It had a great villain. I really think as I look back, even with no time to die, and we'll get into this later, but I think the villains show such promise. And I think there have been some great Bond villains, but boy, that's, those are hard shoes to fill. And I think Le Chiffre, you know, Mads Mikkelsen was, it was just brilliant. And the funny thing is, he's great. He's not the top dog. He's not the, the, I mean, he's, he's actually a bit lower on the food chain than you know, who he's working for. Um, and yet he's such a fantastic villain in look and in demeanor, great, strong, uh, quote unquote bond woman in Vesper in that movie. You know, of course, you know, Craig is just at the top of his game in that movie. And then you've got the cars and the watches and this and the settings and things are just, uh, it's just such a wonderful movie. And I, that definitely is at the top of the heap for me, uh, from all the movies.
Jason Heaton	Yeah. And I think that's all, those are all fair points, but I, you know, for anyone who, who wasn't following this in 2006, when the movie came out or 2004, 2005, when they announced that Craig would be the new bond, there was so much riding on casino Royale. It should have failed. Yeah. Yeah. People didn't like Daniel Craig. They didn't like that bond was going to be blonde. They didn't like it. Like there was a lot of really insane. And we're going to see a whole new round of this when they announced the next bond of think pieces about how this is that and why isn't he this? Why isn't it this person? Why isn't it this, you know, all these different things. And it's, it's hard because they are putting, you know, a decade or more of the franchise's history into the hands of a new actor. And that person needs to work in certain ways to be functioning. Right. I think that whoever made the call, the broccolis, I'm sure, and other investors to make it Daniel Craig, that was such a gamble. Yeah. And it paid off really well for them. You know, I think before that, I remember seeing him in like a Tomb Raider movie with Angeline Jolie. Yeah. And then shortly after that, a really fantastic British gangster film, um, 2003, 2004 called Layer Cake, which I highly recommend. Yeah. That's a good one. Yeah. Yeah. It's pretty great. Very complicated British gangster movie. So like talk about a complicated plot. This is one of those ones where there's four or five stories happening at once and they all kind of imagine, um, a lock stock, two smoking barrels, but less jokes. Yeah. It was kind of a cooler head sort of story. Yeah. Um, and he is, he is just very cool where I think you might give, um, Brosnan the award for like just being very suave and kind of, uh, like a very capable, but fancy guy, right? Uh, there's something very different about the way Daniel Craig, um, manages that he, it's not that he doesn't look fancy or he can't do fancy or whatever. It's there. There's this, um, just kind of a cool edge that's there. Um, disregard. in many ways?
James	I think, you know, I think another way that, that, that his era of movies was, was a little truer to Fleming's visualization of the character. And I think Connery as well is the, it's this notion that Bond was plucked from maybe a career, previous career as, as a special forces operator, you know, SAS guy or something. And it was harder to see Brosnan in that role. Um, Brosnan seemed more kind of upper crust. And I think, you know, Craig's Bond always felt like he had a bit of a chip on his shoulder and you know, maybe cared a little bit less about, you know, how he looked or that sort of thing. I think he, he was just sort of, uh, you know, to use the kind of cliched term that I think M uses, you know, blunt instrument. And I think he's, he, he played that role really well and much more athletic. I mean, he even had the build for it and the clothing was a little bit more casual and there was just a lot more of those, those fight scenes where you're actually kind of wincing and watching between your fingers because it's so brutal.
Jason Heaton	Well, and you know, you, to use, Brosnan as an example, but I think you could literally say this about almost everyone up till Craig is like, you expect to see these, you expect to see Bond in a tuxedo with a, with a martini in his hand, right. And a little tiny gun that he produces quickly. And then now you've got Craig, he, he kind of looks most at home in like a military and SBS style sweater. Right. And when he picks a weapon up, every weapon is his, he doesn't need a gun. He doesn't need it. Like he doesn't need a, PP seven in his pocket.
Unknown	Yeah.
Jason Heaton	It's a different sort of treatment. It's a different sort of treatment as bond as an action character versus, um, a spy. Right. Right. A lot of the Daniel Craig movies aren't really spy movies. They, they have the intelligence that on the computers and M already knows, and now they need a solution and they need the tool to go into the world and make that solution happen. Yeah. They actively deal with this issue inspector where they're saying like intelligence isn't about field work anymore. Yeah. And he says somebody still has to go in there and pull the trigger. Yeah. Yeah. Right. And I think that that viewpoint is different. The Bond movies for Daniel Craig are about a trigger man. Right. He's a little bit more of a thug. He's a little bit more of a fixer, if you will, even when he's being sent. And half the times he's only he's not fixing things on a scale that his employer is happy with. Yeah. Whereas I think the previous ones had those elements. Sure. There'd be a scene where Brosnan would leave a space in his tuxedo and then he's in special forces kind of outfit in the next scene. That's, it's not saying that doesn't happen, but it's more just where the home is. And I feel like the home for Daniel Craig was not in a tuxedo with a, with a, a martini.
James	All right. So Casino Royale, no brainer. We both love that. I would say it's probably are inarguably our favorite. Any others that, that stand out for you particularly in the Craig era maybe?
Jason Heaton	Yeah. So I would say Casino Royale is the best Bond movie, but I don't want to call it my favorite. Oh, okay. I think Skyfall is my favorite. It's a lesser movie, but I like watching it more. Oh, yeah. Yeah. It's purely objective or purely subjective, which one I think, like I said, I think Casino Royale is a better movie to introduce somebody to Bond. I think that Casino Royale is a better storyline, better told. But there's the cinematography in Skyfall, the beats for the movie, the way it looks, the set pieces. Yeah. Every set piece in that movie is just jaw dropping, even if it's just like his abandoned apartment. Yeah. In London, there's something really beautiful about the way they shot it. And then you get this final act up in the Scottish Highlands. Yeah. Um, with this incredible sequence of action of, uh, of, uh, the bad guys coming to, you know, Bond's childhood home essentially, right. Uh, for, uh, a showdown, like a classic Western showdown basically. Right. Yeah. And, and then it becomes kind of like a, a home alone. you know, with them booby trapping the house and trying to escape to other locations and dealing with attack helicopters and, you know, the poor DB5 gets all shot up and the rest of it. I really enjoyed that movie. I love the sequences throughout the film. I just really enjoyed the different set pieces and where they went and how it looked. You have the amazing kind of backlit scene in the office building with all the neon. Oh yeah. Beautiful, beautiful movie. I would have a really tough time picking between Skyfall and Casino Royale for sure.
James	That's where I would land. Skyfall's up there. Yeah, for sure. I mean, I think the story's flawed, but as I said at the beginning, they're all flawed other than Casino Royale, which I think had very few flaws, but I think they're all flawed. So then you start looking at things like action sequences and costumes and, um, you know, villains and things. And I think Skyfall is really strong. And I think for me, what stands out about that movie is, is the visual. I think, you know, Sam Mendes and, and it was Deakins, right? Who was the cinematographer.
Jason Heaton	It definitely was.
James	Yeah. And you know, just such beautiful stuff, even the, the theme song. And then recently I, I, I watched about the first half of quantum of solace, which is one that gets really panned by, by bond lovers because you know, it followed, Casino Royale and there was a writer's strike when they were creating the movie and it delayed it and it had issues with the script. But as I'm watching it, I'm like, I think because I'm watching it after no time to die, which felt kind of grand and very ambitious in its story. I think quantum of solace feels a little more like a throwback. Like he's a little bit, he doesn't speak much, you know, he's like this kind of brutal guy who's just got his head down. He's, he's got the chip on his shoulder. Now, you know, Vesper has betrayed him or so he thinks, and he's kind of, marching around, you know, just kind of beating up anyone in this path. And it, it, it stands up. It does. Okay. But, but I'm with you on Casino Royale and Skyfall as, as the top two in, in the Craig era. Um, no time to die. Notwithstanding, we haven't talked about that yet, but I, I do think that those two are, are great ones.
Jason Heaton	I think it's Quantum of Solace where he throws, uh, uh, what's his name's body in the dumpster, right? Yes. Yeah. Yeah. That movie, that movie is he's angry. Yes. Yeah. I don't know if it was intentional and they wanted an angrier bond because he was already like the dark bond, the brooding bond, the sort of like brutish bond that was established with Casino Royale. Yeah. But with Quantum of Solace, they missed the tone maybe. He's hateful in that film. People have taken something from him and he's going to level the playing field. Yeah. Yeah. And the movie's a little bit of a mess, right? Yeah. Yeah. I, you know, I think Matt Almerick is great in everything. So he's worth watching and he plays a great kind of loopy bond guy. Um, and, and this is still one with, you know, a great performance from Judy Dench, uh, you know, before, uh, sadly she had to step back from being M that's my understanding. Uh, her eyesight is failing. She couldn't read the scripts. Uh, which is sad. Cause I thought she was just a wonderful M and we can certainly get to, um, to, uh, who replaced her. He's excellent as well. Although I think very much mistreated and no time to die. Yeah. We can, uh, we can get to that in a bit. Uh, before we move on, let's maybe we do the books too. Cause I know you're a fan of the books and I gotta, I gotta be honest here. I've never, I haven't read one.
James	Oh yeah. I mean, you're, you're, you're missing out. I mean, you know, it all depends on how much you like fiction and thrillers and, uh, specifically, but, um, and, and certainly Fleming has his flaws. I think, you know, his, his writing is much of the time in terms of his kind of British Imperial outlook on, on other cultures and things. But I think a few, if you kind of take it all in context of when he was writing and who he was, I think they're tremendous stories. I think they've influenced me a lot in my writing. I think his, his attention to detail when it comes to everything about, you know, bond himself, the gadgets, the cars, the locations you know, this is mid century timeframe here. We're talking 1950s when he was writing these and it's, it was, it was the beginning of the jet age. This was when people were just starting to see the world and it must've been, mind-blowing for people to read. You only live twice about Japan and, and some of these other places. And, but yeah, I would recommend, um, just like with the movies, I would say if, if you do pick up one to start with, uh, go with Casino Royale. It's a little bit, it's a little draggy at the beginning, um, because he goes into a little too much detail about the card playing. But, uh, I would say that's a good place to start and then follow that up with, um, you could go in order certainly, but, but Moonraker's phenomenal. And then Thunderball. Um, those would be the top, my top three books, I think.
Jason Heaton	Well, I'll see if I can't, can't knock a couple of those off the shelf, uh, over, over the winter break. I don't know that I've like, aside from depth charge, I don't know that I've read a lot of thrillers. Uh, so I think this could be fun.
James	Yeah. And, and I would also recommend if, if you have any travel or flights or just downtime, or you like to listen to audio books or podcasts, like there's a great series of audio book versions of all the Fleming books. Um, read by really well-known good actors like, uh, on Her Majesty's Secret Service is another great one. And that's read by David Tennant. Um, uh, Hugh Bonneville from Downton Abbey fame, uh, reads, I believe he reads Goldfinger. Toby Stevens reads one. I mean, there's some really good, good voices behind some of these and they really add to it. So, um, look, look for those if you can find them.
Jason Heaton	Well, look, we're, we're nearly at an hour here. I still want to get into like cars, watches. We want to chat about no time to die. Yeah. There's some stuff in here I want to get to with the gadgets that I think are cool. But before we leave our favorites, uh, you mentioned on her majesty's secret service, do you have a favorite, like, um, uh, guilty pleasure bond? Like one, you know, that isn't good, um, but still just like, does it for you? I don't know that you have to be guilty. Just maybe one that isn't like one that people love that you love.
James	Well, I mean, I think it's starting to, you mentioned on her majesty's secret service. And I think that's one that has recently regained popularity, but I think it flies under the radar. I think that is, a superb movie. I think, uh, it was a couple of years ago at Basel. I managed to sneak away on the last day and go to Murren and go up to the place where they filmed it at the top of the mountain Shilthorn. And you know, it's a little cheesy there, but it's such a stunning location. And I think it still comes through. I mean, what an amazing place to do a movie. And I love that. I think what, what has been missing from a lot of the later movies has been, especially in the Craig era was this bond as the sportsman, you know, bond, the skier bond, the diver. And I think, That movie was tremendous because Bond straps on skis and like escapes from the henchmen down the side of a mountain. And I want more of that. Yeah, it's a good one. So definitely that one. I think, you know, Lazenby's only only outing is Bond.
Jason Heaton	Yeah, that's funny because that's what I would say as well. It's the one that like consistently you you kind of only get the two polarizing views. Like that's the worst one. Or you know what? I think it's pretty good. And people should give it another take. And I'm on the I think it's pretty good side. Definitely watchable. It's an old movie, so you have to give it old movie leeway. It's paced kind of... Yeah, right. It's not paced like a modern movie, but the cars are good. The set pieces are incredible. You mentioned the Alps, and they go to this incredible base at the top of the mountain, and that alone is enough to be like, did they make that? And then you look it up and like, no, it's there, that's a real building. And it's not that it's not campy or more or less campy than any of the other older kind of bonds, it's just a different tone. uh, with him as Bond and, and I guess they didn't like it cause they only made the one. Yeah. But I, I enjoy it. And I think if that's one that you ignore because it's, it's at the bottom of everybody's top 25 bond list, there's only 25 films. Um, but you see those lists and it's, it's, it's either like fifth or sixth or it's 25th.
Unknown	Yeah. Right.
James	Which, uh, it's a good segue into, into discussion of cars because I think that movie had, um, a couple of great cars. For one thing, there was the, the, the, the unsung, uh, Mercury Cougar that, that, uh, that Diana Riggs character drives with skis strapped on the back, which was tremendous. And they do this snowy, slippery rear wheel drive horsepower chase through, you know, uh, through Switzerland with this car, but then Bond himself drives the Aston Martin, which I believe is a DBS and early DBS, which was a, just a beautiful kind of muscle car from, from Aston Martin.
Jason Heaton	Yeah, that was, that was that era that was very weird. It looked like Aston was really going to make a Mustang. Yeah. Kind of, they were on that road to the V8 Vantage. Yeah. Cars for Bond, especially if we talk, um, uh, Aston, BMW, Lotus, some really, really good stuff. And it's, it's, it's like even better if you like your sports cars with skis on them. Yeah. Like for your eyes only. Yeah. Not one that I would spend a lot of time. Like I'm not going to watch that every year sort of thing. Yeah. Right. But that S3 turbo with the skis on the back. Oh, Beautiful. Sign me up. A maroon with the graphics, skis in the back window. There's like an S3 Esprit, which is a later generation of the Esprit, not as late as like the one in Pretty Woman, for example, but a later one. The S1, which becomes a submarine in The Spy Who Loves Me, is much more sort of the elemental shape of the Esprit. By the time they get to the three, it feels more developed. Yeah. And it has a bit of a body kit. It's got a little bit more of a of an appeal to it. And yeah, I think that that's a winner for sure. Yeah. Obviously the home, the home for James Bond, uh, definitely throughout the Craig era, but for a lot is, uh, Aston Martin, right? That's where they started. Yeah. Uh, basically they helped to launch the DB five, uh, into the world with, uh, with Connery and then, uh, and then we, you kind of see a progression up to DB nine and then, yeah. And then you get all the way up to like specter, which actually had a DB 10, which is one that they never actually made. So The Aston Martin went to the DB9, and then they put the 10 in, which looks a lot like a current Vantage, but then they put the 10 in Spectre, and then the actual road car, the next version of the DB that Aston actually sold to people was the 11, which you see in all sorts of stuff. And then there's a DBS in No Time to Die, the DBS Superleggera, but it's not driven by Bond, it's driven by the new 007. But we will get to that in a moment. The other thing is there's some pretty good BMWs.
James	Yeah. Although I, looking back now, I, you know, have, well, GoldenEye, the Z3 has such a minimal role in the movie, but, um, and then the Z8 was kind of disappointing because the Z8 was, was this, you know, kind of very rare BMW. And like, he, he basically just sits in it, you know, he doesn't really even drive it or do anything with it. Um, and then I think the low point was the kind of the luxe sedan, the 750 that he, he kind of drives by remote control, I It just felt a bit forced.
Jason Heaton	That's a low point. Oh, I have such a deep fondness for the E38, that generation. Oh, it's a great car, but it just feels so not mine. I think that's the best looking sedan ever made in Germany.
Unknown	Yeah.
Jason Heaton	Yeah. But the remote control aspect, and of course, this is before smartphones, really. This is like the very early days of smartphones. Yeah. So you had like this weird Sony Ericsson, like very Euro. Oh yeah. To a North American, to a Canadian in America, this would be like equipment that you would see only in magazines. Yeah. Nobody was with these little screens and tiny little pens that you had to touch all the buttons with or Bluetooth headsets and all that stuff seemed so cutting edge at the time. And yeah, I love that E38. I mean, the whole sequence in the parking garage is so complicated, an action sequence, it's almost cartoonish. And to have him driving it from the backseat just simply isn't as cool. I have such a fondness for these cars, the long wheelbase ones, they made one with a 12 cylinder, you know, there's some pretty cool stuff in the, in the history of the 38. And I think that generation will kind of always stand as a really beautiful, modern, uh, kind of design for a sedan for sure. Yeah. But less than ideal usage, but I mean, some, some of the uses are crazy, right? Like the DBS stuff or the DB five with the machine guns and the oil slicks and the smoke and the, the, the machine gun protection and that's all fine. Oh, the other one that I have to call out because it's a car that I love, but I'll never have a reason to buy, it's a Citroen 2CV. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Which is in For Your Eyes Only, and it's a hilarious little French car, absolutely worth knowing about if you like cars, unique in many characteristics, and well-loved by people who would maybe typically own and drive faster, more modern cars, because there's some kind of purity and hilarity to this tiny little car. Uh, I believe it's in the featured in the opening sequence for, uh, uh, for your eyes only with a car chase.
James	I think what, what stands out about him driving like a car like that, like the Citroen is, um, it's what I was going to earlier. It's it's he's resourceful. And, and I think the, the, some of the best scenes of bond or when he's adapting to driving, you know, a less than perfect vehicle or improvising with what's at hand. And I think we see that also in, and I think with some, hilarity is in no time to die with the car chase scene where he's, you know, Land Rover made a big deal of, of having all these new defenders in that movie for this chase scene. And he plucks them off one by one very easily at the wheel of a, of, you know, an older, you know, Toyota Land Cruiser. And, and it's, it's quite funny that, that, you know, for all the prowess of the new defender, he takes this old Land Cruiser and kind of dispatches them with some ease. And I like that element of it.
Jason Heaton	Yeah. And whether it's a two CV or, or, you know, there's, there's ones where he's, you know, taking motorcycle from somebody, like it just doesn't seem to matter. Yeah. Yeah. I think that the, the idea that it's an Aston and it kind of fits the persona of bond, but it could be anything. And, and the thing that I like, especially about the Craig ones is he doesn't seem to care that it's an Aston. Yeah. Well, you think about the opening sequences to quantum of solar says this incredible chase sequence, um, with, uh, with that, uh, silver DBS, his car and two alpha Romeos. If I'm, if I'm remembering correctly, it might've been one alpha Romeo and something else, but, and he's getting chased in the car is just trash getting destroyed. And that's a theme like in almost all these movies that he's done. Um, his bond car just gets, yeah, just blown up, lit on fire, whatever. Like that's what they did to the DB10. It ended up in the water. Yeah. And you had it with, uh, you know, in, um, in, um, Skyfall, uh, the, the, the, his beautiful DB5, uh, gets just a billion bullets shot at it. Right. Um, yeah. So it's, it's an interesting theme where I don't, there is this sort of like, he has these things, but it's not important to him necessarily. Or like, that's not what he's, it's almost like he derives a bond to the character drives, importance in a more realistic way than his fans do.
James	Yeah. Us. Right. I think you could extend that to, you could extend that to watches too because I, and we can kind of move into watches as well because yeah, for sure. You know, uh, the scene in on her majesty's secret service in the book actually where we see him wearing a Rolex and he uses it as a knuckle duster to knock out a guy at the, at the ski workshop before he, he steals the skis to escape down the mountain. Like he shatters the crystal of the, of the watch on this guy's face and it's like, I think it even mentions like, ah, no matter, I can get another one from Q branch or from the store when I get back home. And I think it's, it is that that's also appealing in him. It's he's resourceful, but he's also, he lacks attachment to things. I think he's just, he kind of moves through and consumes things in his life as he moves forward and as he needs to, um, without sentimentality. And, and I think I like that element of them. I can't say that I, I achieved the same, uh, you know, sort of unsentimentality, but it's something to aspire to. I kind of like, I kind of like that element of a bit of a sort of brutal pragmatism.
Jason Heaton	Yeah. And it's, it's a one watch, it's a one watch guy sort of thing. It's like a, a one car sort of like it just, it's this indifference to the idea that, that there's a value to it beyond what it can do for you in that moment. Yeah. Which I do think is kind of endearing. Yeah. And, and I also think that I thought about this a lot because you try and understand what makes Craig kind of special as a bond. And there's an indifference. Yeah. To the way that he operates. But I think if you want the easiest example of his indifference, look at the way that he throws car keys. Oh yeah. Yeah. True. Like it's, it's specific. So either somebody told him to do that or that's how Daniel Craig throws his car keys when he gets home or whatever. Or it's a thought like it's just, it, there's this laissez faire sort of Devil May Cry attitude about putting things down, how he picks them up. If he doesn't need a weapon, he seems to pick it up by the strap. And if he needs it, he's picking it up with his finger on the trigger. There's nothing in the middle. And you see the way that he will pick up two glasses with one hand and a bottle of champagne. It's these very... He has a physical presence that I think is unique to Daniel Craig. Yeah, that's a good point. And I think it informs the character, especially the way... I love the way he throws stuff. Yeah. I mean, people really highlighted the, the element in Skyfall where he comes up over the boom, uh, and jumps back into the moving train and then like kind of cinches down his cuffs for sure. But for me, it's the, it's the like disinterested way that he'll throw something when he's done with it out of space, out of mind, regardless of what it is. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Which I've always really appreciated that about the performance.
James	And I think when we first see him in Casino Royale, he has the perfect kind of Craig era watch.
Jason Heaton	Yeah. I really wish they'd just let him keep that one for all five.
James	I do too. You know, just let it get progressively more trashed. Cause it's, it's the original big size planet ocean on the rubber strap that I love so much. And, and it was a movie that when I saw it, I was like, that's a cool watch. I want to get that watch. And that's kind of what ultimately led me to seeking one out. But, it fit him so perfectly, especially in that movie, that physicality kind of demanded a, a watch on a rubber strap that could take a lot of abuse as opposed to the, the Omegas of the, of the Brosnan era, you know, the, which, you know, fine watches, there's, there's still great watches, but you know, he started out with the blue quartz Seamaster on that very complicated Omega bracelet and then moved to an automatic version of the same. But I think, yeah, the, the planet ocean, And then the most recent, the No Time to Die Seamaster from the latest movie, which felt very Craig as well, I think.
Jason Heaton	I like that watch a lot, but we've talked about that one. We don't have to spin the tires on that. My thing is I just kind of wish that they'd kind of kept him in one avenue for the watch because I liked that the Brosnan era, I know that it was more than one watch. And of course, not this, even if it wasn't not the same watch through each movie or whatever, but like, I'd like the consistency of like, he wore a blue dial Seamaster. Right. Right. And if Craig, if I could just say like Craig always wore a planet ocean with the gray bezel, which I think is what he has in the second movie, but they downsize it down to the 42 millimeter model. Yeah. But instead, you know, in some movies he's wearing more than one, which I find like, I know, I know he changes outfits like 30 times a film or whatever, but like for, for whatever reason, I, as a watch nerd, I guess I want bond to just like start a movie and not suddenly be wearing an Aqua Terra when he's at dinner. or something like that.
James	Yeah. Even in Casino Royale, when he moves to the casino, he switches to the old blue dial bond Seamaster on the bracelet. And it felt, I mean, in a very small watch nerd kind of way, kind of jarring because you're right. You want, it goes against what I would envision his character being like that, that unsentimental character who would just move seamlessly from one thing to another, kind of keeping the same dirty beat up watch on a rubber strap with his a tuxedo. But.
Jason Heaton	Or like, I almost imagine like, you know, there's a little like, like an inspector gadget esque, you know, the closet with all the same jackets and hats is just like, he goes back to Q, he takes the watch off, he throws it, you know, kind of limp hand on under the table. And then when he's ready to go for his next thing, he comes back down, he gets his exploding pen, he gets his watch and he leaves. And like, I just, I don't necessarily believe that like, this is a guy who, who traveled to Montenegro with a watch roll. Right, right. Like you or I might. Yeah, yeah. And then one of the few kind of like deeply kind of cheesy elements of Casino Royale circles around the watch. When he's having dinner with Vesper, and she asked him, Oh, you know, what's that a Rolex? He says, Omega. She's lovely, right? And yeah, we didn't need to say that.
James	Yeah. The Omega presence really ramped up in the Craig movies. I think that a lot of the watch switching and choices for the movies and emphasis on them obviously came as a result of that partnership, which, you know, I understand the realities of it, but I kind of wish it wasn't there. I wish it was a little more subtle as it was in the early ones, you know, with what you didn't, there was no mention that it was a Rolex, but, but everybody knows the scene when Connery pulls back his sleeve to check the timing of the explosives that he planted and lights his cigarette and you see the big crown Submariner. I mean, it's iconic. It's the most famous kind of watch scene and there's no mention of it.
Jason Heaton	Yeah, it's sort of like an evolution of the way that these things are put in movies. You almost wonder if way back in the day it was even a Rolex placement. Yeah. Or if they just knew that Bond was an ex-SBS guy or whatever and would have a Rolex. So that's what they grabbed him, right? Like if you knew Bond needed a suit, he would wear, his character would likely wear something from Savile Row, so that's what you'd get. If a guy like Bond needed a watch, he'd probably wear a Sub. And that I think would have made sense at the time. Right, right. Now we're into the world of product placements. Yeah. And the fact that Omega kind of has three games. They're the second biggest watch company in the world. They have three games. The Moon, the Olympics, and Bond, right? Yeah. And they get to keep the Moon forever.
Unknown	Yeah.
Jason Heaton	It seems, right? It doesn't look like anyone's going back to reset the watch story for the moon anytime soon. Yeah. But the Olympics and the James Bond franchise are in transition. They could lose that. They have contracts that will end at some point. So they probably have to do, obviously, what makes sense for every movie, but what makes sense for the relationship to keep that going as long as possible, because if they lose either of those, that's a major change to Omega. Yeah. Like a huge business change to Omega. I was just listening to a really... This is a side conversation. I was listening to a podcast with Larry Chen, this fantastic automotive photographer in LA, and he explained that Canon's... The camera company, Canon, and I never thought about this, but their entire product schedule is a four-year cycle because of the Olympics. Really? Wow. So they want their new model to be shooting at the Summer Olympics every time. Oh, interesting. So the difference between a five D mark two and a three was one Olympics to the next one, which is fascinating. Yeah. I love little factoids like that. And, and you see some of the same things in how important this is to Omega. And like, don't get me wrong. There's people who might, I don't know why you would be listening to an hour and 15 minutes of Jason. I talk about James Bond. If you don't like James Bond, but there are people listening who love Omega and don't understand why the bond thing is such a big deal or the Olympics thing. I don't even care about the Olympics that much. Yeah. but you can't... You can discredit it from like, it doesn't work for me, I don't like Bond, I don't like the Olympics, whatever, but you can't discredit what it means to Omega and how big a slice of Omega's existence is the connection to this evolving, long standing signal to white masculinity, essentially. Sets fashion, reflects mirrors of society, becomes not just a sex icon, but an icon of masculinity or a certain type of masculinity problematic and otherwise, let's be clear. But I think it's really, really important to not understate how crucial, how this is. This is essentially a product placement at one of the highest levels in the world. Yeah. Right. It's hugely expensive endeavor for everyone involved to make these movies and to be a part of them. Whether you're Tom Ford doing most of the clothes in the most recent ones to Omega, making sure your watches are on bonds, and probably paying a lot of money mostly so that it's not any other watch.
Unknown	Yeah. Yeah.
Jason Heaton	You know what I mean? So I think that's worth considering within the watch angle. But the nice thing is, is if over the lineage of the 60 years of the thing, there's been a lot of brands. Oh yeah. Some great Omegas, which we talked about, but Tag Heuer, Pulsar, plenty of Seikos, weird Seiko TV watches. And then you've listed a handful of Rolex. I mean like Rolex had a real thing going and I just wonder if the franchise wasn't seen as valuable or if people hadn't really locked in on on what the product placement possibilities really were for something like Bond. And they let it go. Who knows?
James	My understanding was that, you know, Fleming was a Rolex man. He wrote Rolex into the books. And when it came time to make the first movie, it was like, okay, what did he wear? Oh, Fleming was present on set when they made Dr. No, and it was probably, oh, he should wear a Rolex. And at the time it was a diving watch. And that's what he ended up with. And I think, you know, Rolex had that reputation. I as far as I know, there wasn't any cooperation between Rolex and the producers for any of the films, but it seemed like the logical movie for him to wear. But then as you got into the seventies and Roger Moore took over and pretty soon it was, what was the hot thing? It was, it was, uh, uh, LCD, you know, watches or, or, um, TV watches or, or quartz watches, you know? So then it moved over to Pulsar and Seiko. And then when Dalton took over in the eighties, uh, you know, Tag Heuer was huge. And, and Rolex was, I mean, he wore a Rolex in one as well, but yeah. Cause he was the last to wear a Rolex, right? Yeah. And then, uh, when they rebooted with Brosnan, this was six years after the last Dalton film. And, and as legend has it, the, the costume designer remembered her father or uncle or something who was in the Royal Navy wearing an Omega and thought he should wear a Seamaster and Omega with its history with, with British military. And then, Jean-Claude Beaver was at Omega at the time and I think he saw the opportunity and of course the rest is history. What a genius that guy is.
Jason Heaton	Yeah, yeah. Why am I not surprised that he's behind something like that? Yeah. Man, what a businessman. Incredible. Yeah. So, so good. Yeah, so I look, I think for me Bond is Omega. Yeah. I understand the love and the cult of Rolex. I'm part of it. I like Rolex a lot, but I don't, I would be fine if it was like We announced 50 more years of Bond with an Omega. I think Bond is an Omega for me. Yeah, I think it fits. And they also make a sport watch that would be in the running for this sort of a person, for that person to exist. Yeah.
James	Right. Let's talk about gadgets. I mean, watches are kind of a gadget in many of the movies, but before we get into our kind of no time to die discussion, what... Obviously the gadgets to me have been actually a less important part of the movie as opposed to the character and kind of how he is and what he does and that sort of thing. But they're obviously huge in the movies. What stands out for you?
Jason Heaton	I put this into two categories, which is like one gadget that you'd like to have actually, and then use in real life. And then the props that would be fun to have at home. I don't need a golden gun that actually shoots bullets, but it'd be cool to have one on the shelf. So, I mean, the gadget for me, that's where the movies that relied really heavily on the gadgets, even really recent ones, like the linchpin moment of the third act is based on Bond using a gadget. I'm not wild about it, so I might like the gadgets less than others. I like the DBS from Casino Royale, but I don't think that's a gadget. That's a car. It's a prop, I guess, right? Yeah. But, you know, with the built-in defibrillator. That'd be handy. I'm not sure why you would need, I guess, but it came in handy for sure. Yeah. Or like, I'm not sure how you would predict that need so much so as to have it integrated into the glove box, but it was cool. Right. Yeah. And, you know, beyond that, I think that the remote control BMW is kind of nice, you know, especially in a parking lot, which is where they, they really showed that in a battle, but you know, you could park it, I guess. I don't know if you'd have to use that old little Palm Pilot-y Sony Ericsson thing to do so. Yeah. Jet pack. I did like, yeah, the, the jet packs probably pretty high up there. Right. Or some of the really cool diving stuff, like the fictional or otherwise scuba diving equipment. Yeah.
James	Yeah. So the, the, the, the lore around that, uh, I guess they, they called it a rebreather. I don't know why they called it that, but the sort of underwater apparatus that he kind of can carry in his pocket and it's delivered to him in a cigar canister too. Um, in, in Thunderball, uh, I like that. So funny story. Um, I actually have one. It doesn't work obviously. It's, it's, it's a movie. Oh, I've seen this on your Instagram. Yeah. Um, I was so smitten with that, with that prop. So this kind of, this is, this hits both those categories for me. This is a, this is a gadget I'd like in real life and kind of one of my favorites from the movie, but then I do have it on the shelf here at home. And I think, um, the funny thing is, is that when the movie came out in 1965, I believe it was the, the US Navy or maybe the Royal Navy approached the producers and said, does that exist? And where did you get it? Because we'd re we could really make good use of that because it's this tiny little, it gives you, you know, 10 or 15 minutes of, of air doesn't, this thing is not real. Chances are there is something like that nowadays. In fact, they do, they call it a spare air.
Jason Heaton	I remember the spare airs, which looked like a, like a can of spray paint with a regulator mouth on the end.
James	Yeah. Yeah. But, uh, yeah, that's, that's a cool one. And, um, uh, you, you've got on your list here, the Spectre ring, which, uh, I've known a few people that have had those. I think, I think Lamdon has one. And I think he, I just saw, he posted a picture of like four gold Submariners with the Spectre logo on the back. So cool.
Jason Heaton	Yeah. It looks really, we'll put those in the show notes. They're super rad. I meant to send him a, I commented on the Instagram post, but I meant to send him a message, a DM about it. Those are just super fun. But yeah, it's such a cool logo. Yeah. And for the case back of a vintage, you know, gold Rolex. Perfect. Yeah. And James, a big, a big bond fan. So that, that all makes sense. Yeah. I think, yeah, the specter ring, I would be a cool prop. The golden gun would be a cool prop. Um, I would really love one of the like square casino chips. Oh yeah. You know, like I've been to a casino a couple of times in my life, not really my favorite sort of space. Um, but you know, that has round chips. That's all I'd ever seen. And then we're watching these things and they've got these big, rectangular heavy sort of acetate looking chips. I'd like one of those would be super fun to have. Yeah. Yeah. And then the other one, and I forgot this existed, but it came up on a list. There's a scene in quantum of solace where he books a plane and he pulls his credit card out and it's like a black card, an Amex black card. This is James Bond. No. Oh really? Okay. Yeah. I I'm on board. Give me, give me one of those or just let, let my credit card say James Bond on it. Yeah. Yeah. Even as a bit.
James	And you can find props. I mean, if you want a lot of these gadgets, you can even buy, you know, replica clothing and that sort of stuff. And, and he has it all, but also there are just a number of websites, uh, James Bond lifestyle lists, all of these props and things. So you can get the poker chips, you can get the, uh, you know, you can get the, uh, you know, you can get the, uh, you know, you can get the, uh, you know, you can get the, uh, you know, you can get the, uh, you know, you can get the, uh, you know, you can get the, uh, you know, you can get the, uh, you know, you can get the, uh, you know, you can get the, uh, you know, you can get the, uh, you know, you can get the, uh, you know, you can get the, uh, you know, you can get the, uh, you can get probably a replica black card and you can get the breathing apparatus and that sort of thing. Um, the other one that was really cool and, and you know, we aren't really going into depth on stunts here, but it ties in with a prop and a gadget is the grappling gun that he uses in golden. I, when he love it, base jumps off the, or not base jumps when he, um, bungee jumps off of the top of the dam. And as he reaches the bottom of, of his arc or his fall, he calmly pulls this gun out. and aims it down and shoots this piton. And then it reels him in. And then it also has a laser sight that he drills through a wall or a door to get inside the place that he is. And it's like, I don't know, that scene to me is one of the great stunts. I think Bond movies are full of great stunts, but that combines a great stunt with a really cool gadget.
Jason Heaton	Yeah, the grappling gun thing. You got to have that, right? If you're talking about cool movie gadgets that I wish was like a real life item. You know, as a kid, I would watch Darkwing Duck, like cartoon stuff and characters that have grappling hooks. And you're just like, man, that's cool that you like shoot the rope and then it pulls you up. And yeah, you know, there's a few, there's a few different options, I suppose, for that in the James Bond world, but that one in GoldenEye is rad for sure. Yeah. I thought, you know, it's not so much a gadget, because I think it is a real thing, but the kind of like mini jet plane from Octopussy. Oh, yeah. With the fold-up wings. Yep. I believe it's called an Acrostart BD-5J. I'm on board. Yeah. A little plane. Yeah. Would be super fun. So, I mean, that kind of stuff is like, it's all deep bond stuff. Like it's kind of like invisible cars. Right. Jet packs and uh, weird, yeah, weird diving rebreathers and things like that. But there's, there's a lot here and, and I like that some of it's real and some of it isn't. Um, but certainly I think that's where I would land on the sort of gadget and, uh, and prop thing.
James	Yeah, we should, we should get into no time to die because it's a good place to kind of wrap things up. And, uh, we're running quite long here, but, uh, you know, first impressions, um, I I've seen the movie now three times once in the theater and twice at home. But, uh, yeah, before we get into it, if, if you haven't seen the movie and you don't want to hear about it, now's the time to, uh, to mute or click off and maybe revisit us after you've seen the movie. But, uh, heavy, heavy duty spoiler alert here, we are going to kind of go into, into some depth about the movie here.
Jason Heaton	So, uh, and if you're listening to this and, and you're intending to now pause, uh, for the spoilers, I'll put the time in and time out in the notes. Oh, good idea. So if you still want to get to the final notes, uh, Go down, take a look, and I'll put a specific time where you can... Spoilers end here. Basically, where you see the time for the first final note, that's where you're safe. But I think the rest of this, we're going to be talking about either no time to die and then where we think the show will go or where we think the series will go post Daniel Craig. But yeah, I'm keen to get into this. I think I've seen it three times now.
Unknown	Yeah. Cool.
Jason Heaton	We talked about this briefly on a previous one, and I think at that point you were liking the movie more than I did. I think I'd just seen it in the theaters for the first time. Yeah. Um, so I think maybe we'd both seen it once. Um, you've watched it a few more times. I feel better about it or the same. Where do you land on no time to die?
James	You know, I have to admit, I actually like it less every time I watch it, which, which is not the, not the impression I thought I would have. Um, I, I still think it's a great movie. And as I said at the top, to me, Bond movies are more about scenes and the feel of the movie and, and so much more than like, does the plot make sense or, and I'm trying to set aside my own feelings about, you know, Bond. And I think, you know, just jump into the spoiler right off, right, right off the top here. I mean, he, you know, he dies at the end and he had a kid. I mean, those are, those are things that I don't necessarily agree with or, or wanted to have happen in, in my view of Bond or in the franchise. But, I, you know, they'll, they'll figure out a way to, to, to move on from this. But I think the movie felt more like a film with a story about a person. And I think I don't always like, I don't always want that out of a Bond movie. And I think that kind of led me to like it less each time I watched it. I was a little getting a little annoyed with that, but on the other hand, beautiful movie, I mean, gorgeous. The sound was great. Yeah. Soundtrack was fantastic. The set design, I mean, Fukunaga's directing and kind of choices for when and how and where to shoot scenes was, was just top notch. And so it's a, it's a beautiful movie to watch and I'll watch it over and over again over the years because I, I, I do love it as I do every Bond movie. But, uh, but yeah, I'm, I'm liking it a little less every time I watch it. Um, especially when I go back and revisit, you know, Casino Royale or even, you know, some of the others. So yeah. What about you? Okay. You, you kind of were a little less enthusiastic about it right when you saw it at first.
Jason Heaton	Yeah, I wasn't wild about it. And I would say if you're gonna go with complaints, there's too much story in the movie. They're trying to do a lot. And I think they're trying to do a lot right from the get go, like from the opening sequence, which is in a flashback. And I just don't know how it felt like they were doing a lot and then they resolved only a bit of it. And I think that they felt because of the ending, which you get the emotional kind of catharsis of finding out that he has a kid. Yeah. And then you get the kind of legitimate end point of his death as being, I think they, they believe that kind of wrapped things up, but because they were dealing with so much on the bond mind share for the film, it kind of felt like they ignored other elements.
Unknown	Yeah.
Jason Heaton	Like Remy Malek, um, playing Safin, I think was given way less time and space than he deserved. Yeah. Almost to the extent where I didn't understand the character and then it was over. Yeah, I agree.
James	And I felt like he was, it was a bit of a, a limp villain in the end. And I thought when, when they announced him as the villain, I was so excited because I thought he's amazing. Yeah. Great actor. He has the look. Um, there was talk early that he was going to be like the new doctor. No, but um, yeah, it just felt like it kind of fizzled. I wanted them to be a little more villainous and, and yeah, he came in a little too late. And then, yeah, you're right. It was, it was underdeveloped.
Jason Heaton	So, yeah, I just think like maybe, maybe a different edit would have made a big difference. Um, it was, it's a long movie even for a Bond. Yeah. Right. Um, and, and I like a long movie so that I don't necessarily mean that as a, as a thing. So I think that like the, a storyline of Bond and Madeline and whether or not this kid is his and the time that they've spent apart was given the space that it kind of needed, but it never really, integrated with the rest of the story that well. And, and then they're, they're very casual about Bond not being double of seven anymore. And then coming back and being really rude to M and then getting his job back. Yeah. Um, so some of it just, it felt like it kind of felt like they may maybe did a pass of the film and realize that they were missing a bridge or two and they went back and made those and they didn't maybe match the style of the roads on either end of the bridge, if that makes any sense. Yeah. So it felt kind of choppy. I didn't, I didn't like that the movie really wanted to be about legacy, legacy in him having a kid. Right. But also about death, you know, it's not, Bond's not the only one who dies again. I've given you the spoiler warnings. I don't like saying this stuff into a microphone. I literally feel uncomfortable. Felix also dies in this movie in a very personal way. Right. Right. And I think that's when I realized how much I liked that character when they took him away. Yeah. I love the technicality of the film. I like the focus on, the weapons and I like the way that it was shot. I like the vehicles. I like the color of the movie. Right. Um, and this is something that I think Deacon's established really, really well is that like these set pieces have to be shot in a way that respects them. And I think they do that carrying on into no time to die in a really great way. Yeah. Yeah. I, you know, I think, I think amazing props. I mean, like I said, the set pieces are great. I think Malik could have been, yeah, more time to be introduced and established so that we kind of understand why he's so dangerous. Um, he felt like a late entry. And even when you look at like, like Skyfall where you have Silva as a bad guy, and I think a very similar toned bad guy to Remy Malek's character, um, you know, has a history in which he was hurt by somebody in this world. It's kind of coming back with a revenge plot. It's kind of a, it's a big scale plot, right? Yeah. And I think that the, the only issue with, with that is we got a lot more time in Skyfall to get to know Silva and to see the duel and to see the kind of end of the Bond girl in that movie. And then you realize, Oh, wait, maybe Judy Dench is the Bond girl in this movie, which I thought was really cool about that one. And by the time they're actually like fighting each other, the movie's ramped up to it. Whereas it feels like it, we didn't ramp up to it in, in no time to die. We just suddenly kind of partway through the second act, you've got Malick, he's doing some stuff and they've got to go figure it out on this Island. Right. Yeah. I don't think it was, you know, it's just kind of, um, Messy is not even the right term because the movie doesn't feel messy. It just feels like they tried to do a lot.
James	Yeah. And I, I often wonder if, you know, if they've, if it was a case of too many cooks in the kitchen, you know, they had a lot of writers on this movie. They had Purvis and Wade, the two guys that have written every movie since I think the Brosnan era. And then they brought in Phoebe Waller-Bridge, a great writer. Um, but they brought her in with, to do some polishing of the script. And then Fukunaga himself dabbled in it as well. And I think, you know, at some point that, that almost feels like too many, too many writers. And I think where Casino Royale was based very closely on the book, um, I think what they're going to need to do, and we'll talk about what, what's coming next in the franchise a little later, but maybe start going back to some of the basic themes of Bond himself, whether that be from the book or some inspiration from some early movies. And I think this was a case where they, they, they had a lot of elements from earlier movies that were great nods to some past uh, set designs, costumes, you know, villains, music, et cetera. But you know, you're, you're right. The plot just felt a little bit too complex. And I think we, we didn't need that or we needed, we just needed it to be more distilled.
Jason Heaton	The other thing, and this is where like, maybe I haven't, I haven't fully developed this thought. But I genuinely don't believe that he had to die. Yeah. Yeah. I definitely don't think we needed to find out he did or didn't have a kid, but I don't think we needed both him to have a daughter and to die. Yeah. In my mind, his death doesn't mean maybe what they wanted it to because I know how bonds work and this is Craig's last one. So it feels like a video game ending. Like if, if I jump wrong with Mario and he goes down a hole, I know I have a new guy coming. Right. Right. Right. Yeah. And, and this kind of felt like, like they knew they were going to put another coin in the machine and get another bond in a couple of years. Yeah. So they could do this. Yeah. They had a spare man. Yeah. But I don't think it was fair. His character faced no real reckoning for his behavior over life.
Unknown	Mm.
Jason Heaton	he basically just finds out that he has a kid and he loses it. It wasn't punitive and it also wasn't rewarding for it, for anybody involved. So I'm not really sure what the payoff is there.
James	I think they could have, they could have been ambiguous in both counts. I think they could have left it open-ended whether or not that was his kid. And I think they did for most of the movie or after we, we first meet Mathilde, um, that the daughter, they, they could have just let that hang at the end. I think it would have been this sort of tension of like, is she, or isn't she, And then in terms of him dying, they could have had him do a swan dive off where he was standing into the deep water. And then that's the end of the movie. So it's, did he die? Didn't he? Or, you know, he, he makes some, some escape. I don't, I don't know, but you know, that was, that was a, a very radical and obviously controversial choice to, to kill him off at the end. And it's kind of the crux on which people's opinions of the movie turn. Although for me, that, that was, not the most important part of the movie, but it's the one that stands out when you talk about the movie with somebody that's seen it. It's like, what did you think of him dying at the end?
Jason Heaton	Yeah. For me, like I said, when I know that they're done with him anyways, functionally as an actor for these movies, them killing him off doesn't seem like they're doing anything other than making the decision to kill someone who hadn't died in the previous 24 movies. Right. Right. Yeah. Um, and I don't, I don't love that. That's the way that they closed the bond thing for, for him. I would have rather have, uh, I'm not saying it all had to be like happy, but if it could have even just returned to where he was, you know, in Jamaica or whatever, at the start of the film when he wasn't working anymore. Yeah. And, and maybe we could have found a way for this bias, his freedom, or he made this deal with these people and him and, and, and his, uh, Paramore and their daughter abscond to a post-Bond lifestyle. Right. That wouldn't have bothered me either. I just, I feel like if you're going to kill off a main character, I mean the title character for a series, you do so with like functional gravitas, not implied. Yeah. And I feel like this, they're like, they want you to feel bad that Bond is dead. But we were also, regardless, like he dies in the last few minutes of the movie, right? Yeah. three minutes later, he was going to be dead to us anyways. Yeah. Right. As a bond. He doesn't, we don't get another chapter with him. So the functionally, like it just like, why? Yeah. This is what I was. And maybe there's a great explanation and one that I missed. I watched it. Like I said, I've seen the movie a few times, but I, it just like, if you're going to do something like that, like make, make it something that I'm going to feel. Yeah. And, and, and, and this just kind of felt like tokeny, um, to, to end the season and the series with, uh, the freedom to do anything they want by killing off the previous character. And this is a movie that already established a different 007.
James	And I think the fact that we're spending time talking about this element of the movie kind of bothers me because it's not what I want to talk about when I talk about James Bond. And I'm not saying that as some simplistic, like, I just want to talk about the guns and the cars. But like, I mean that. I mean, I really I prefer to talk about, you know, the resourcefulness of the character, the bravery of the character, the wild stunts, the kind of villainous plot, how great the villain was. I don't want to be, you know, debating lamenting the fact that, you know, they killed him off and he had a child at the end. It just doesn't feel right for the series because there's so much that's good about this movie. And we may sound like we're downers on this film, but to me, this is right up there. I mean, this is, this is a top, top 10, if not top five Bond film in my mind, based on so many other elements of it. I think cinematography, the set designs, I mean, some of the references, the nods to the past movies that, The, the moving colored dots in the titles were a throwback to Dr. No, the, some of the musical choices from on Her Majesty's Secret Service, the lab suits, you know, he's in, he's in his spiritual home of Jamaica at the beginning and he's, you know, spearfishing and sailing. I mean, this is, this is like great visual bond. This is good stuff. And Craig is superb in it. And, and some great, uh, supporting characters as well. I mean, Ana de Armas was, um, was such a welcome surprise in this movie.
Jason Heaton	She has so much chemistry in that scene. Yeah. Um, and she's funny and, and that felt like a different movie inside the movie. Um, I've, I said this with the last time we talked about no time to die because it wasn't a spoiler, but like, just give in a Dharmas a whole movie as a, you know, a gun toting kind of like, can you tell if she's smart or dumb? You can't tell. Like, it's just like, it's really, it's a great performance that, that leaves you kind of like chuckling and, and it, it gives you a weird, They do it really well, the chemistry between her and Daniel Craig, because her performance, the way that her character is operating in the space, kind of puts him off balance.
Unknown	Yeah, yeah.
Jason Heaton	Where he can't quite tell, he's like, well, she's either gonna die moments into this gunfight, and then every now and then you see him looking over, or they're assisting each other, and it's a really complicated fight sequence that also includes the then current 007, LaShonna Lynch, who I really, really like. Yes. And yeah, would love to see more of her in that role. Um, if that's the decision they ended up making, it's my understanding. That's not the decision they're making. Yeah. Uh, at least according to rumors, but I thought she was wonderful and funny and super understated. Like very, like anytime she said something, you were, you really wanted to hear her say it very limited dialogue and, and, uh, definitely like a bond appropriate or double Oh, appropriate, like sense of superiority and control. Yeah. Yeah. And, and also they'd go out of their way to make little nods, little suggestions that she doesn't suffer from the same kind of problematic foibles that Daniel Craig's 007 does. Right. You know, she's looking down on him drinking at when they, when they make it back to the hotel and, and you know, the pulling the spark plug leads on the car and like not really necessarily treating him like a team player because she already knew he wasn't. Yeah. And wasn't, they weren't even necessarily on the same team. Yeah. But there was that like, she encaptured that whole like freedom of motion. Like when something doesn't go her way, there's another move.
Unknown	Yeah.
Jason Heaton	Yeah. And, um, and she has like a great physical presence and, you know, like throws a gun around really well. And I enjoyed all of that. So way more of her, whether it's in this or give her a different action franchise or something, I, I, her and Anna like, I think stole that movie.
James	Yeah, I would agree. And I think that it was, it was kind of a nice way to sort of pass the, pass the torch to the next generation. You know, the, Probably not in bond movies, frankly, but, but just kind of a good way to kind of see Craig out as, as the character he was. I mean, you don't want a 60 plus year old bond like we had with Roger Moore. I think Craig bowed out at the right time, but I think there was this acknowledgement in this movie of, okay, you're, you know, 50 plus it's time to move on. And these young, these young upstarts are going to be kind of respectful of you, but also like put you in your place. And you, you see that you can, you can almost see him seeing that. And I really liked that. I loved that part of the movie.
Jason Heaton	Yeah. And I think that the interesting thing, and this is another thing that I do really like about this movie, especially, and the way that they've treated Bond over the last five movies is of course, we have the whole storyline in the previous ones that he was getting too old, maybe not passing the physical. Yeah. M is lying for him. They're not so sure that they even need the double O program anymore. And then now this movie is almost like, like No Time to Die almost functions as like being self-referential to the idea that Craig won't be Bond anymore. Yeah. Like the movie's very almost meta in some ways about the Bond franchise. But I thought picking somebody, a young woman, and then giving her legitimate 007 sort of, or 00 status in the film, like operating as a 00 was wonderful. And then just the fun of having Anne de Armas at that scene in Cuba, I liked it quite a bit. really great, great casting all around. I mean, yeah, we haven't talked a lot about Lea Seydoux, but I think she was wonderful, um, in her past performances, even if the movies maybe were even more convoluted than no time to die. Uh, but I think she does a really good job in this and it's like a, an almost a subtle performance. I mean, like Bond is there's nothing in a James Bond that needs to be subtle.
Unknown	Yeah.
Jason Heaton	I think she might just be a better actor than most people who come through Bond movies. And I think we, you know, we've already touched certainly on Malick, but a pretty solid cast, a great looking movie. Yeah. It just, you know, some of the decisions aren't the ones I would make. I can't say that that makes it a bad movie. I'm going to keep watching it. Right. It'll be up there for me with Casino Royale and Skyfall for sure. Yeah.
Unknown	Yeah.
James	So, you know, we, now we're talking about the, kind of the next generation of, of double Os and agents. What, what's, What do you, what would you like to see next for Bond? Like how do they follow this up?
Jason Heaton	What do they do? I think in my, in my world, they've already said what they needed to do. Give us, give us, give us three or four bonds with LaShonna Lynch as 007. I think it'd be so fun. I think it'd be so exciting. They would hit a much broader audience, right? Like they say that one of the major factors that became to be understood about like the whole Fast and the Furious franchise, is like a multicultural cast means that you have multicultural roots all over the world. And to give people a different idea of what Bond is, I think would be great. I really enjoyed her in the movie. I think it would be fantastic. I don't think that Bond needs to be a sort of upper crusty white guy. I disagree. I understand that's the impetus from the books, but we're 60 years in. The ideas can change and bend and, and, you know, kind of reflect the current times as the movies often do in other ways, which we've rambled on a bunch about.
James	I'd like to see her in, in future movies as a double O, but I think if it's going to be a James Bond movie, I mean, you can't get around the fact that, that, that James Bond is a, is a man. I mean, oh, that's a good, whatever ethnicity or wherever he comes from. I think it has to be a man and arguably British because of the MI6 connection and that sort of thing. But I would love to see her character developed further, whether it's, Um, as, as kind of a sidekick to kind of stand in for the now deceased Felix, uh, or, or some other role. But I think she was great. And I would love to see that developed further. Now, something interesting I just read, there's a, a young Scottish woman who's been, um, approved by the Fleming family that, that still owns the rights to, to write books under that name. And who's, who's writing a book called double or nothing. Um, that's has James Bond missing and a new team of double O agents. I love it out searching for him, um, with a lot of the same tropes and ideas. Now this is gonna be a book, not a movie, but I like that idea. I like that, that, and she has, there's just been a brief synopsis put out and we'll put a link in the show notes. But, um, I love this idea of kind of pushing forward the next generation of double O section and also kind of how the world has changed. You know, I think that's one thing that, that the bond movies have struggled with. It's like, how do you adapt to, you know, different villains and organizations and threats, you know, a lot of it is cyber and different parts of the world. And, um, you know, just to kind of make it a little more dynamic, young, um, that's what I'd like to see.
Jason Heaton	Yeah. You know, I think, I think that, that whatever they decide to do, they could learn from some of the other stuff that's, that's been in the same mind space for the last few years, the John Wick stuff. I think there's lots to learn from world building. Cause like, I think when it definitely, when I talk with John Wick, I'm talking about, Keanu Reeves and how amazing he is and how difficult those movies are to make from a physical standpoint. But they, with a very deft touch, established this whole sub world of assassins and they have their own way of moving from place to place and places to stay when they're on the working and rules and guidelines and payment systems. It's all this developed concept, which I really like, but it allows you to see other personalities pick up the same card. which I think for this book you're suggesting could work really well. Yeah. And I know I've kicked around this idea with my brothers so many times that I think that maybe the answer isn't to try and push the James Bond thing away from what James Bond has been for 60 years. But I would, you know, if we know that there's nine double Os conceivably, having not read the books, maybe there's more. I guess it wouldn't be a double O at that point. But anyways, we know that there's a more than one double O. Yeah. And you very infrequently get to see their adventures. Right. And, and in, in my mind, the next goal would be a really, really well produced serialized drama about other double Os. So like a T a TV series. Yeah, I can see that. And, and if you think of something like the Mandalorian, right, where you have an overarching character and timeline, but then you have kind of just, scenarios that they're dropped in for half an hour or an hour. I think that's one option. I think you could also look at, um, um, the Kingsman movies, right. As a really like fun way of showing how the whole spy thing is more than one person. Yeah. Right. Yeah. I think if they're going to go with the traditional bond moving forward, I think it, Richard Madden seems like the great choice right now. And I think he'd be really fun. I would definitely watch those. That's all great. I would be, thrilled if they found a way to, to have LaShonna Lynch continue on. Your point about her can't take the name James Bond. I get that 1000%. That's a good point. Um, but I do hope that she's in the movies moving forward as much as possible. It'd be super fun. Um, but in my mind, the, to take this to a bigger audience and a more fun space and the rest of it, it would be a TV series. Yeah. Even if it was, you know, eight, one or one hour long episodes, a season. Yeah. uh, that would give us the same sort of vibe, but we could explore either more of the bond world or more worlds around the double Oh, uh, status.
James	Yeah. I mean, it'd be cool if they did that. And then bond was almost just a supporting character who kind of was in the background and you knew he existed and maybe he appears in a scene or two, but it's really about this double O section would be really cool. And I agree that Richard Madden, at least in terms of the current crop of candidates, uh, is the standout. I think, even just a few years ago, we had people like Tom Hardy, Idris Elba, Hiddleston, you know, some of these that were great candidates. I love the idea, but now even those guys are getting a little too old to kind of step into a five movie or, you know, four movie set of films that I think they'd, they've just aged themselves out. But, uh, I like Madden for it, but who knows, you know, one thing's for sure, the, the broccoli, um, Wilson duo, these two children of cubby broccoli, they, they're going to do a good job. I mean, they, they've, they've navigated, all these years of different actors and different world scenes and directors and tastes and that sort of thing. And they've, they've done a pretty good job. So I have faith, um, that, that we'll come up with something good. And hopefully we'll, we'll hear about a new actor in the near future and we can all get excited about a bond 26. Yeah.
Jason Heaton	And imagine, imagine if this, you know, it's, it, there's always a few years between a bond movie, but imagine if you planned out the next, let's say it is Richard Madden and you know, he's going to do four movies and you even know what the stories are.
Unknown	Yeah.
Jason Heaton	Make the, make the TV show fill in blanks. So maybe Madden's in the background in one scene and you don't know why until you see the Bond movie two years later from that same locale. I like that. Yeah. Like treated a little bit like you and I softly derided the Marvel movies previously, but they understand those like intertwining elements of how a TV show can support a billion dollar movie can support three other TV shows and six more shows later on. I don't think we need multiple James Bond TV shows. One would be rad, but I do think it'd be a really cool way to continue the story, to integrate with the movies, to expand the mindshare and keep it going between these big pauses from one film to another, because these are hugely expensive, time-consuming movies that are filmed all over the world and involve huge amounts of set and a car sequence you might only see one car, but they might've needed 15, right? Like making these movies is a huge endeavor. And I think that, you know, maybe you have to treat it a little bit like a, um, you know, when they finished saving private Ryan, they had all the investment in the props and the understanding. And that led the production company, Tom Hanks's production company to make band of brothers. Right. And I think you could almost see it in a similar fashion, like to give us another story from within the space or 10 more stories or whatever.
Unknown	Yeah.
Jason Heaton	Yep. I like it. That would be a, that'd be my suggestion, but I do believe that's, you know, we're nearly two hours in, this will be one of our longest episodes. I'm, I'm pumped about it. I think this is worth the time and the effort that'll have to go into the edit, but it is probably about time for final notes. If anyone's still listening.
James	I think so. Yeah, no, I think we, I think we've covered it all or, or if not all at least exhausted.
Jason Heaton	Maybe we do a James Bond two in a couple of years or so, or if we can get on a great guest, a great Bond sort of guest, I'd be happy to dig into what I got wrong or where my blinders are, that sort of thing. Yeah.
James	But why don't you give us your final note? Okay. Um, this is a short and sweet one. This is a video that was produced by Elliott Brown watches. Um, I have one of their, uh, their Holtons, the quartz diving watch that's current issue to the SBS. And, and one of their ambassadors is a bit of a friend of mine, Graham Gannon, who runs the peninsula kelp company. Oh, right. I've talked about, um, peninsula kelp in the past and what a unique and cool company Graham runs there with his wife. You know, he's, He's a former professional diver. And I guess you could argue he still is a professional diver. He, he sources, um, ocean nutrition as he calls it in the form of dulse and kelp by, uh, hand harvesting it while free diving off the coast of a peninsula in Northern Ireland. And then he, he dries it and prepares it and packages it and sells it at farmer's markets. And you can order it online. And I've ordered some of this stuff in the past, and this may sound like an advertisement, but I'm just so just so excited about what Graham does. I think it's just such a unique and cool kind of old fashioned business, but he's an ambassador for Elliot Brown. They, they found him and thought he'd make kind of a cool guy to, to put on one of their watches for the work he does. And they made a short film and I don't know how to pronounce this. I believe it's a, probably a Gaelic word of famine or famine. And it's about a four or five minute YouTube film in which they, they sent a film crew in some Land Rovers. Uh, to kind of follow him around for the day and, and film what he does and how he does it. And it's, it's just a really fun watch. It's really cool. It's well done. There's some, some cool underwater diving action. And then you hear from Graham about the work he does. And, uh, just wanted to give him a shout out and, uh, and Elliot Brown are good people and they make cool watches and it's just kind of a good viewing all around. So check that out.
Jason Heaton	Absolutely. Yeah, no, good pick for sure. Look, mine is something I've talked about on the show a bunch, and now they've released or teased the next five of the LEGO Speed Champions sets. So I've only been able to find five. There were some rumors online that there are more coming. I assume that's true. Why not? But right now they've announced five new sets that are currently slated as coming soon. So it's two kind of two-car sets. One for Aston Martin, which has like an AMR Pro race car, and then a Vantage GT3. Pretty cool. Nice use of color and the rest of it. A similar thing for Mercedes with a W12E performance and then the still forthcoming new kind of hyper car from Mercedes, which is called the Project One. But what I really want to talk about is they've got two one-car sets and one is a 1970 Ferrari 512M that looks awesome. Like it looks perfect. And the other one is a white Lamborghini Countach. I need both of these in a big way. So that's $40 that I'll never see again.
James	It's crazy that the cars they have here. I mean, these obscure stuff, you got a Koenigsegg and a McLaren and these oddballs. This is so cool that they even did this.
Jason Heaton	Yeah, for sure. So, oh, and then the fifth one of the new one, they're doing a single car set for the new Lotus Avia or Avia. I genuinely don't know how it's pronounced. E-V-I-J-A. You don't have to tell me. I don't actually care. It's probably Avia, which is a forthcoming electric hyper car that the brand is making. But for me, I really like the Speed Champions when they stick with older cars, typically. You know, I have an older Audi Quattro, I have an F40, and I have like a 930 Turbo Porsche. So in that group, the Countach has to be in there for sure. But the 512 is simply too cool a car. That's a Le Mans prototype car from the 70s. And this is in red, it's got gold wheels, it's got the big tail flare. I'm about it. I'm a huge fan of these. I've lamented the fact that as I've gotten older, I don't really want to do a giant Lego set. I understand that people do. They're hugely popular among adults, the big ones, whether it's several hundred dollars or several, maybe even close to... I don't remember what we said. You've got the big rocket. And, and, and then, and the defender, and then they did a Titanic one recently, which is like a thousand dollars or something, a huge thing. And like, I understand people treat these kinds of like puzzles and you, you work on them over time. I kind of like the 25 or 30 minutes it takes to build one of these speed champions and they just go on my shelf and they can be pretty. Yeah, I did. I did buy, I'll put this in the show notes as well. Uh, I did buy a like Chinese knockoff set for Lego of an SR 71. Oh yeah. I don't really know. It was on AliExpress. I can't be certain how big it is. I mean, you can tell because of the single units of the Lego brick is a giveaway. So it's not a foot long. It's smaller than that. But I'll get that at some point this year, whenever it ships from the other side of the world. But when that arrives, I'll put it in the show notes. You can check it out. And then when it arrives, I'll take a picture and include it in a future show. Yeah. I like a small manageable Lego set that ends up being like loosely a collectible when you're done. Like something I can display or kind of enjoy rather than something a little bit larger that takes up like a lot of space. Like I don't have anywhere to put a rocket or, or a Titanic. Yeah. That's a problem. You'd end up, you end up in one of those rooms that has a shelf, just at the Lego sets that you've made. And then I'm not, I don't have that many rooms to have one just for Lego. So yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that's my that's my pick. It's a new sets from speed champions. I know that there's probably email sitting in my inbox or DMS in my Instagram about these. So if I don't reply to you, it's because I was aware of them. I do try and follow the new releases for speed champions as much as possible. And for 20 bucks in my world, it's a no brainer. A 512 for 20 bucks. Love it. Yeah. And Jason with a great video. So there's your final notes. And there's a show. This is going to be one of the longest ones I think we've ever put out. I think so.
James	So much to cover. I mean, 50 years, 60 years and 25 films. I mean, we had to go long on it.
Jason Heaton	And to be honest, I was just thrilled that people took the time to tell us what they wanted and then to see the little patterns, you know, it's 115 or so comments and to go through and see a lot of people like saying, I want these three things. Also, that bond idea is a great one. And I'll do a bond episode, do an episode all in bond, do an episode. And I'm like, let's do it. Fine. Let's lean into it. And then at the top of the show, we had the instructions for the Q and A and the resulting feed. So I hope that puts some of those concerns to bed. I'll send out a message to all the subscribers with those details as soon as I kind of have it all arranged. And we have an episode to share and we'll go from there. But obviously, if you have any issues, you can always get a hold of Jason and I at TheGreyNado at gmail.com. And as always, thank you so much for listening. If you want to subscribe to the show notes, get into the comments for each episode or even consider supporting the show directly and nabbing yourself a new TGN signed NATO, please visit TheGreyNado.com. You can subscribe and review the show wherever you get your podcasts, and we'd love it if you took a moment to tell a friend. And also let's not forget that music throughout is siesta by Jazzar via the free music archive.
James	And we leave you with this quote from Ian Fleming, who said, never say no to adventures. Always say yes. Otherwise you'll lead a very dull life.