The Grey NATO - 175 - Don Cochrane Of Vertex Watches
Published on Thu, 06 Jan 2022 06:00:32 -0500
Synopsis
This episode begins with Jason and James discussing their recent holiday adventures, including James' winter getaway to a cabin and Jason acquiring a digital piano. They then welcome Don Cochran, the owner of Vertex Watches, for the main interview segment. Don shares his background working in Formula One racing, Tesla, and private aviation before reviving his family's historic watch brand Vertex. He discusses the challenges of modernizing a heritage brand, the development of Vertex's new M60 Aqualion dive watch, and his passion for both watches and classic cars. After the interview, Jason and James highlight a few final notes including a YouTube video on building a cabin from wooden pallets and The Watch Annual photo book they are both featured in.
Links
Transcript
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| Jason Heaton | Hello and welcome to another episode of the GrayNATO. It's a loose discussion of travel, diving, driving gear, and most certainly watches. This episode 175, the first of 2022, and it's proudly brought to you by the newly formed TGN supporter crew. And we thank you all so much for your continued support. Jason, uh, happy new year. How are you? |
| James Stacey | Yeah. Happy new year. 2020, uh, 3.0, right? |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. Yeah. That's how it's feeling, man. Uh, I don't, I definitely don't want to start off this episode with like a, an airing of the grievances. I think we missed that by, uh, about 10 days, 10 or 11 days to, to thread that needle. But goodness sakes, what a, what a time of year for another, another whole COVID thing, you know, just kind of take Christmas away and new years. And this time of year, I always look forward to catching up with family and none of that really happened. But, uh, Yeah. Like, wouldn't it be nice if we could turn on the radio and hear about anything else or open Reddit or whatever and meet up sometime, you know, cross borders. Yeah, that too. Yeah. Yeah. But focusing on the new year and the new possibilities and the rest of it, uh, you know, TGN subscriptions are still coming in. Uh, you can obviously, uh, check that out if you haven't already, uh, thegraynado.com, uh, for more details, click the support button and get the explainer. I do want to clarify a few things as we got some emails from people who maybe didn't catch the explanation on the show. So the levels of supporting the show kind of work in three stages. You can pay nothing and the show will continue as it is four episodes a month. Maybe share it with a friend or that sort of thing if you're enjoying it. Next up is $5 a month, which includes the fifth episode a month, which is going to be the Q&A moving forward. We're going to start that in February. If you're either a $5 a month or a $100 a year annual supporter, please go ahead and send us your questions, thegraynadoatgmail.com. Those will be addressed sometime in February as the start of the fifth a month episode. And then finally, as I alluded to there, there's a top tier, which is the annual supporter level, and it's $100 a year, but it also includes a sticker and a gray NATO with a signed TGN buckle, either in 20 or 22 millimeters. And what we want to make clear is if you've signed up as an annual supporter, you'll get a thank you email from Substack. And in that you'll find a link, which you can click on to give us your preference between 20 and 22 millimeter and submit your address. This is how we do the orders. If you can't find that email, you need to check your junk mail or your promotions email or your social folder. Obviously, if you go through this process and you have any problem, you can always hit our customer service line. TheGrenado at gmail.com. We remain here. I'm blown away by the support. We've said this a few times. The numbers keep kind of growing and I'm thrilled to see this. I think the Q&As are going to be awesome because they can be anything we want at this point. It's just for supporters. You can ask us anything you want. It doesn't even have to be about watches. It could be more simple stuff, more complicated stuff, more hypothetical stuff, media, like whatever you got, bring it on. Uh, I think it's going to be a fun part of the year to, uh, to get back into the Q and A's and, and to do so with, uh, you know, with folks that are making it possible in a very active manner. So a big thanks from Jason and I moving forward, of course. And, uh, if there's any issues at all, you can send us an email, uh, but otherwise, uh, consider supporting the show if you're enjoying it. And if that's your scenario. Yeah. |
| James Stacey | And, um, just quick follow-up here. Uh, big thanks to Terry at Ute watch, uh, strap company. Um, he. Got us back in stock with the 20 millimeter TGN straps. So, uh, if you ordered those while they were on back order the past few weeks, they are now sent off a huge pack of them to some new supporters last week. Uh, so those are on the way and we, we have, uh, a decent stock here as well. So if you're, if you're thinking about supporting and you want a strap, now you can actually choose 20 millimeter and get it in short order. So, and it's been fun seeing everybody. putting up their photos of their TGN straps on watches. It's been great. And we thank you for sharing that. And we try to reshare whenever we can. So yeah, it's been fun. Absolutely. And, uh, you know, it's cold, it's winter. I mean, I've been, I've been having some winter fun the past couple of weeks and, and to make it even more fun, you and I each got a, a really nice care package from our friends at Nerona. Uh, Nerona is a Norwegian based outdoor gear and clothing company. And they are big fans of the show. And just like last year, they sent us each a really nice package of some select pieces of kit for us to wear jackets and pants. I got a nice duffel bag, and I'm just looking forward to testing all this stuff out. And we thank Neurona, who we like to consider now our unofficial sponsor of the TGN Winter, given the, especially the puffy jackets we each got that we can test out and wear. So big thanks to Neurona, and we'll We'll certainly be, uh, giving our feedback on these products going forward this winter as we, as we get a chance to, to wear them a little bit more. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah, it's a neat thing. Cause they don't, they didn't send it with any, with any, like, please talk about it on the show or, or, or write about it or take pictures of it or whatever. They just kind of sent it, you know, we we've, we've got a, a, a nice little relationship with the crew at Neurona and, and the stuff is incredible. Like, uh, you know, it's easy to talk about on the show because it is as high level as any, any sort of this gear that I've come across at this point. Yeah, like Jason said, a huge thanks to Nerona and as we get a chance to put more of these through their paces, maybe some skiing, maybe some hiking and otherwise. So we'll be sure to fill in any blanks that come up along the way. And speaking of skiing, you were out skiing recently, right? You got a bit of a getaway over the break? |
| James Stacey | Yeah, I haven't been on downhill skis yet this year, which starting to feel a little bit like a little late need to correct that here. Um, soon, but, uh, yeah, I've been on my cross country skis for the past couple of weeks now that we got some decent snow and, and Gashani and I did a little something different for Christmas this year. We, we got away. We actually, um, we, we quite far away. We rented a, this beautiful a-frame cabin that we've, we've stayed at a couple of other times earlier this year. Um, it's at the top of a very long, steep Hill, uh, up on the North shore of Lake Superior. And, uh, and, and we drove up there a day or two before Christmas and, and spent three nights there and just got dumped on, I mean, there was over a foot of, of new snow while we were there and high winds. And it was, I don't know when you're at a place like that, it's like, I don't know. It's a, it's a pleasure to kind of be snowed in. It felt very cozy. We had a fire going and we're just like, you know, watching shows, listening to books on, you know, audio books and cooking and drinking and. And then, uh, we, we ventured out on snowshoes one day and kind of tromped through the woods. So yeah, it was a, it was a proper winter getaway. I don't think we've had one like that in, in a couple of years. So it felt, it felt really good. So it's been, it's been great. And then, um, you know, one of the nights, uh, we, we, we grilled outside, uh, a certain, certain friendly neighborhood podcast, co-host, uh, gifted us, uh, this lovely snow peak, uh, Takibi fire grill, which is this spectacularly cool little, um, you know, Japanese designed, uh, sort of foldable portable grill set. And, um, anybody that knows Snowpeak, you know, here's another brand, you know, Nerona is great, but, uh, you know, Snowpeak has that very, very kind of Japanese aesthetic when it comes to, to kind of design of all of their products. So, you know, I've had, you know, whiskey flasks from them and little titanium shot glasses and things like this. Well, You were kind enough to send us, uh, this, this fire grill and, uh, we'll put a link in the show notes if you want to check it out, but we packed that in the car and it sets up in about three minutes and, um, brought some, some wood and some charcoal and, and we braved the high winds and the cold. I kind of found shelter in this kind of corner behind the, the garage of this place that we were renting. And we set up on this hillside and built a, a toasty little fire and, and, and cooked some food. So it was, uh, it kind of added to the whole. the whole cozy factor and it was a lot of fun for sure. Yeah. |
| Jason Heaton | I've had those I've had that system kind of on my radar for a while because I love the, I love an elevated fire. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, you know, I think that you have to be very considerate of where you can do a fire and where you're allowed to have a fire and the kind of impacts the fire can have on the ground and the rest of it. And, uh, and this takes out a lot of that guesswork. It's, it's this really clever design. You see it from lots of companies, but I feel like Snowpeak is kind of the right one. |
| Unknown | Yeah. |
| Jason Heaton | It's this really gorgeous kind of four-walled open, well, not quite pyramid, but it's that sort of concept of essentially like a bucket up above the ground that you can cook or that you can start a fire in. And then if you want, there's a whole grill system that goes on top of it. I just think it's really clever. And my experience with Snowpeak is that they are absolutely a pinnacle of quality in terms of build and finishing and the rest of it. Everything that I've come across from them is just really, really nicely made, and it lasts forever. And I just like the company in general. So it was a bit of a no-brainer when my wife and I wanted to send you and Ghoshani something. You sent a handful of very thoughtful and impressive gifts over the last few months, and we wanted to try and level that playing field in some manner. And yeah, I'm a big fan of these, so I'm glad that it worked out. And I like the kind of flexibility. If you just want it for a fire, that works too. If you want to cook something over it, you can do that as well. And I think the system even expands beyond the standard one. I think they have ones that have more little cooking stations and stuff like that. |
| James Stacey | Yeah, I was watching a video on their website and all the kind of accessories that you can buy for it to kind of expand its use. And that definitely would be something we'd consider. But when I was describing how this thing sets up, as I was explaining how this thing unfolds, I was like, it's like origami. I mean, it is, it's like, it's like a, it's like one of those, you know, sort of four sided folded pieces of paper that you sort of just pop open and then the legs sort of come out and off you go. So it's a very clever and you know, I don't know, I love outdoor fire in general. We have a kind of an outdoor fire thing here at home and then you know, whenever we're camping and stuff, we'd like to build fires. So it's a, yeah, it was, it was perfect. And I, wholeheartedly recommend it to anybody that's looking for something similar. |
| Jason Heaton | So. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. And from, from my side, uh, you know, a winter break was nice. So, you know, COVID made it pretty complicated, um, had to be a little bit more creative when it came to activities and, and that sort of thing. But I did actually end almost two years. So, uh, would it would have been more like 18 months, um, of a, a kind of on again, off again, hunt for a digital piano, which I've wanted, you know, basically since COVID kicked off and I figured I'd be spending more time inside. |
| Unknown | Yeah. |
| Jason Heaton | uh, in an attempt to not always be looking at a screen, um, but still have something kind of active to do. Uh, I used to play more. I'm not, I'm not trained in any way. I taught myself through YouTube years ago. And, uh, and so I, I finally got lucky, you know, there was a handful, probably maybe about 10 over the last couple of years where just didn't work out in terms of timing to go play it and then the pickup or the person was really far away or something like that. And I got lucky this time with a Roland FE30, which is a perfectly decent digital piano, certainly much better a piano than I am or ever will be a piano player. And I was able to pick it up used for a really fair price with the stand and the proper pedals and the rest of it. And I'm loving it. It's a really nice way to turn off one side of my brain and turn on a different side, if that makes any sense. It's relaxing and fun. And hopefully I'm not bothering my family too much singing, singing my silly songs and the rest of it. But yeah, I'm happy with it. It's a, it's a, it's a nice little, yeah, a break from the norm and and going with one that has the proper stand and everything means it doesn't have to look like a rec room or, or somebody's, you know, recording space. It just kind of looks like a, like a small piano. So, yeah. That was kind of a good win for me. |
| James Stacey | Oh, that's cool. Yeah. Now with those, can you, uh, I don't, I've never seen or experienced one of these, but can you use it with like your own, like noise canceling headphones and, and, and listen so that you can play without disturbing other people? Like if you wanted to do it in the wee hours of the morning and stuff, really? |
| Jason Heaton | Oh, that's great. Yeah. It's got, it's got headphones, uh, headphone jacks and it's got a, this one has Bluetooth that I have no idea what it does. I didn't look into it. And I think it has a MIDI interface, like I think you could record with it if you want or something like that. I suppose in some ways you could do that through the headphone jack, depending on your setup. Yeah. Yeah. Otherwise, it doesn't have a screen and it doesn't do laser sounds and I can't really emulate a Blade Runner soundtrack or something like that. But for kind of simple piano emulation, Roland is one of the good options. And yeah, it's a nice full size keyboard and nicely weighted. Uh, and it's, it's fun to play it for sure. |
| James Stacey | Oh, nice. Yeah. Well, speaking of technology, we, we, we, uh, on the, we did a lot of outdoor stuff, but we also, um, kind of scored some indoor technology as well. We, we finally picked up a replacement for our aging Vizio TV. And, uh, and this is more Ghoshani's side of things than mine. She did a lot of research and we ended up with this beautiful 65 inch OLED Sony Bravia TV. That's just like. So much nicer than our, our last TV. And we've watched a couple of movies. We rewatched a no time to die the other night. Um, which was fun to kind of pump up the sound. We're, we're looking into getting a soundbar for the full experience. |
| Jason Heaton | Um, but so far the soundbar, let me, let me pick out a stereo for you. Oh, friends don't let friends buy soundbars. I'll let you take, sometimes that's all you could fit in the room. |
| James Stacey | Right. But, uh, anyway, it's, so that's been, That's been fun. You know, it's one of those things that everybody has kind of their, their things that they're nerdy about or passionate about. TVs have always just not been my thing. I'm just like, Oh yeah, I'll watch whatever. But like when you see something that's a step above, it's, it's like holding like a grand Seiko after you've been wearing like an SKX for a while. It's like, you finally get it like, okay, I, I see, I see the difference. |
| Jason Heaton | So yeah. And I mean, OLED is also a big jump if you're going from a TFT panel, even an LED, like a backlit, something like that. But like if you're going to spend the money, it's going to be a Bravia in my mind. And they make such a nice product for sure. |
| Unknown | Yeah, that's great. |
| Jason Heaton | But yeah, other than that, I mean, I haven't really gotten up to a whole ton. The other note that I have here in terms of an upgrade to my work from home experience is my lovely wife got me a pair of L.L. Bean slippers. Oh, lovely. It's nice. This is a good life. I don't think I've never been a slipper guy before. They're kind of heavy, so I can hear my feet when I walk, which is weird. Yeah. It's like, like something I'm still working through mentally. I'm used to moving around kind of quietly despite my, uh, you know, kind of un, ungainly size and gangliness. But, uh, uh, yeah, a nice pair of like shearling lined. I'll see if I can find them and put them, put them in the show notes, but my, my feet are roasty toasty. Normally they're quite cold when I'm, uh, when I'm recording, I'm very drafty corner of the house that I have my computer in. But yeah, I think that's probably the update from the last couple of weeks. I wish I had more. I wish we had like more adventures. My outside time has been at parks with my kids or, you know, walks to the grocery store or stuff like that. But yeah. So what are you wearing? What's on your wrist? Yeah, I've got my Braymont S302 on. Nice. I recently moved it over to a Hirsch Pure strap. It's just like the most simple kind of subtle black rubber strap. I really wish I could find a green one. If anyone listening has a green one that they bought years ago in 20 millimeters, it's just like sitting in their, um, in their, you know, strap box or whatever. Let me know. I'd love to pick that up off. Yeah. Um, it doesn't seem like something that's readily available online or even like eBay, the rest. Uh, but this black, I think works really well. It's so comfortable on the rubber. You know, I think, I think this is one of my favorite rubber straps. This one, uh, I think that, you know, I know of a few brands that have used these Hallios mark two, have included these straps in theirs, and they just have this kind of like subtlety. There's not a lot of design to them, but they suit a watch really nicely. They suit a dive watch really well. And again, we're still in a slippers and sweatpants sort of mode to most days, so a rubber strap might even be overkill, but I suppose it's a step in the right direction that I'm wearing a watch at all. Yeah, right. I did most of the holidays with my Phoenix on. Oh, just because I was trying to keep in touch with family that wanted to play Mario Kart and this and that. And it seems like a weird time to have more messages than normal, but I didn't want to really miss anything because we were just kind of hanging out at home. So the Fenix excels at that. And then also just reminding you, I love the sleep tracking. We talked about it before, but that was a good one. But yeah, I've kind of been oscillating between the S302 and the 6S Fenix. That's where I'm at. Yeah. I love this watch. Great, great Braymont. My favorite one yet. |
| Unknown | Yeah. |
| James Stacey | Yeah. I had, I had mine on yesterday. I had it on, um, this kind of mustard colored NATO that I got from cheapest NATO straps. And I'm loving that color combo. You know, I don't know that I have any other watches that that strap color would work with, but it just worked really well with that watch. |
| Jason Heaton | Is that strap as thick as it looks? I mean, if it fits in the spring bars for the Braymont, it can't be that thick. It's not thick. They're very stiff though. |
| James Stacey | Those ribbons. I don't know if it's the only experience I've had with ribbed NATOs and, and, uh, And so I don't know how all of them are, but. |
| Jason Heaton | I almost wonder if you washed it a couple of times, eh? |
| Unknown | Yeah. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. |
| Unknown | Just get it to soften up a little bit. |
| James Stacey | But, um. It's a cool looking strap though. I like it. But I, um, I switched for, for today's episode for obvious reasons. I, I've got my bronze Vertex 75. So this is the hand wound watch that commemorated the 75th anniversary of D-Day. And, uh, it's just such a classic elegant watch. My dad was borrowing it for a while. It's a really beautiful watch. And now I've got it back and I've got it on a, on a bun strap and the bronze is just starting to patina. I've resisted the urge to do what a lot of people do and kind of pre, you know, artificially age it. I kind of want to see, see where it goes with just kind of years of use. And there's a little bit of green around kind of where the, I guess the fixed bezel kind of attaches to the case. And I'm starting to see a little bit of that, but, uh, Yeah, it's such a classic, such a fun watch to wear, and very fitting for today. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah, and I think that's the same one our good buddy Mike Pearson has as well, right? Yes, he does. I think he does have the bronze. He posted photos of it. It looks great on Mike, and for those of you who don't know Mike, we should probably have him on the show. Maybe we hit like 200, we have Mike on. Yeah, good idea. Because Mike introduced Jason way back in the day, used to run the show for Bremont. If you're a Bremont fan in North America, it's because of Mike, basically. Right, right. He was kind of everything for that for a while. And he's with, uh, Wolf, uh, Wolf designs. Now they'd make some fantastic watch winders and storage and that kind of stuff. But, uh, yeah, but yeah, maybe, maybe Mike, we get to get to chat to you soon. And we were, we were sending texts the other day and I'm, you know, certainly wishing you well from our side of the world. He's back in the UK now, hopefully listening. |
| James Stacey | Well, I know he'll like this episode cause he's a big Vertex fan and, uh, and, uh, without further ado, we can jump into our main topic. You know, we've, we've had this sort of informal series over the years. I mean, dating way back, uh, chatting with Jason Lim from Helios. We've done Rick Mirai, Bill Yao more recently, to name a few. And these chats that we've done with a few of the small watch brand founders and owners. And today we're keeping that up. We've got Don Cochran, who has an interesting story. You know, he's the great grandson of Claude Lyons, who was the founder of the British brand Vertex way back early part of the 20th century. And people Commonly, if you're a watch nerd, you kind of know Vertex from its contribution to the so-called Dirty Dozen collection of the mil-spec watches that the British Army used during World War II. You know, the brand went defunct during the quartz crisis as so many did, but Don, you know, grew up kind of knowing about the family history with the brand and he revived the name and released kind of a modern version of that Dirty Dozen watch and now he's got a new Dive watch out. So we wanted to get him on and talk to him about that and Don's got a really interesting background in, you know, formula one and private aviation. And then of course, watches and electric cars, electric cars. Yeah. It's a, it's a, it's a good chat. We, we just got done with it. We, we always do our chats and then we record the front and end of the show afterwards. And so, you know, looking back, I mean, it was a, it was a, it was a good chat with Don, you know, calling us from, from London and, and, uh, we hope you like it. So let's dive into this talk with Don Cochran. Well, we have Don Cochran with us. Don, thanks for joining us on the Graynado. It's been a bit of a long time in the planning to do this. Thank you very much for having me. |
| Jason Heaton | It's an honor to be here. Yeah, this is fun and a great way to kick off the year. Yeah, definitely. |
| James Stacey | So, Don, you know, we did a little bit of an intro to our chat here for our listeners. Obviously, your bit of background with Vertex and, of course, the new M60 Aqualion, which is really fresh off the off the, off the line here for you guys. But, um, why don't we back up? I'd love to get a little bit of more in-depth background of you, um, before we, we dive into the, well, pardon the pun, but dive into the new watch and just some Vertex news. Um, you know, you, you weren't in the watch industry up until you, you relaunched Vertex a few years back. What was your, what was your thing before watches? |
| Don Cochran | Yeah. I mean, so although I, I grew up in a family of horologists. I wasn't a watchmaker or particularly focused on watches at all, any more than a general sort of person would be. So I kind of grew up in advertising to start with, which led to me working in Formula One for Ben Eccleston's Formula One management company. So for about 11 years, I traveled the world doing all the Grand Prix's, which was an amazing and incredible start to life. And off the back of that, I worked for some of Le Mans car racing companies, including Bentley, Ferrari, and Ford. Wow. Which is cool. Yeah, there's a topic for a whole show. Well, I was really into cars and I'm still very much into cars and aircraft and boats. But yeah, cars were my thing. I love motor racing. So that was great. |
| James Stacey | Yeah. Wow. So it was on the racing side. It wasn't necessarily working for, you know, the, the latest release from a brand. |
| Don Cochran | Yeah. So it sort of went bizarrely off, off kilter from there. So during that time, um, just after working in the mall, um, my wife and I had purchased a house in London for the first time. And we really wanted, um, an electric car. And this was a long time ago when they just were no electric cars. So when I'd been working way back for Ogilvy, we had Ford as a client, and Ford had developed a company called Think, which was their zero emission initiative, and I thought we should try and get one of those. That company was sort of stillborn, never happened, but I then worked with them to try and bring it back. That didn't happen, but that led to me being one of the first hires for Tesla when that started. So then I became part of Tesla at the very beginning, which I used to spend hours explaining what Tesla was to people. Luckily, I think people know now. That was quite fun. And then off the back of that, I ran special projects for Aston Martin, so the 177 V12 Zagato and a few other bits and pieces as well before moving to private aviation. It's a weird little kind of... It all made sense to me at the time, but it sounds weird in retrospect. And then it was at VistaJet, which is the private aviation company I was working for, vertex happened again. |
| James Stacey | And do you still dabble in the other stuff or are you 100% vertex these days? |
| Don Cochran | I'm probably 90% vertex. I'm still an advisor for the jet company. Um, which is, it's fun cause one of the responsibilities I have is our Ferrari F1 sponsorship, which isn't a terrible thing to be involved with. Um, and uh, I also just, just like cars. I spend a lot of time, um, around classic cars and classic car guys and I'm playing |
| James Stacey | Yeah. I mean, our last episode of last year was a chat with Henry Catchpole, a well-known car guy from, from your side of the pond. And then, you know, we've talked with, with several people, uh, you know, you're kind of part of this ongoing loose series that we have talking with small brand owners. And, uh, and one of our other guests was Rick Moriah and he was a big car guy. So there's, I mean, why do you think there's the overlap with car enthusiasm and watch enthusiasm? |
| Don Cochran | Mechanically minded, I think would be the way to put it. There's something wonderful about engineering and engineering in cars is very similar to engineering in watches. You have parts that make other parts do things and there's lots of similarities there. And it's all about making them work as efficiently and as well as possible. So there's lots of parallels, I think, in taking both parts. But it's also about passion. and the passion leads through from both, I suppose. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah, I mean, absolutely. I think, obviously, it's the grand evolution of someone who's really into watches or really into cars or really into anything is you kind of start off broad, then you become kind of very kind of specific in many ways. And then I find a lot of people end up becoming more broad in their scope of their interest. What are your kind of main touch points for cars? Is it a British thing? Do you prefer uh, Formula One cars or Italian cars? Do you, do you have kind of a specific bent or is it kind of anything that, that, that works in the right way? |
| Don Cochran | No, I'm, I'm incredibly disloyal, I think. It's the best way to be. I'm passionate about almost all of them to a point. Um, I really love the smell of old cars. Uh, they, you know, smell of pastoral GTX and the patina of old leather and the story that that tells you of the journeys that has been on I find, yeah, very exciting. And also the people that hang around those cars that, you know, it's wonderful to talk to them about that sort of thing. But at the same time, some of the new stuff, I mean, it gets, I mean, I think, I don't know how old you guys were, but I fell in love with sports cars in the 80s, so Lamborghini Countach, you know, some Ferrari 512 BB and that sort of thing. When those cars came out, it was a big deal. Now there are so many um, modern hypercars and sports cars coming out. It's quite hard to maintain a focus on any specific brand or any specific kind of car model for sure. So, uh, you know, I, I've been very, very blessed to play with a few of them and that's great, but really my love is kind of 1960s sports cars and they could be Aston Martins or they could be Ferraris or Jaguars or Porsches. Um, but that sort of thing. Fantastic. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. You know, I'm curious and we'll get to watches. I don't want to derail too far, but With a passion for 60s cars, especially 60s sports cars from the sound of it, and then having worked with Tesla, especially in the early days, do you think that cars are getting less interesting or more interesting? Or is that not even necessarily a useful way of looking at the car world these days? |
| Don Cochran | Yeah, a bit of a dichotomy again. I'm a big believer that we have to change our behavior because the world is changing. And I like to think that technology can help us or save us potentially. The whole point of Tesla when it started was it was going to allow you to have that electric journey without losing the passion and the driver experience. And the first Tesla Roadster was almost based on 60s technology. In some ways, it's based on the Lotus Elise chassis, which is quite a small, quite niche British motor vehicle. And it It felt very involved. It didn't feel like you were taken away from it at all. It didn't have too many drive rates. Obviously Tesla now is all about actually taking out the car altogether if possible, but at the time it was absolutely the opposite. So it did work with what I was trying to do and trying to be. |
| James Stacey | It's interesting. One of the questions I had for later, but I think I'll just bring it up now is, you know, having restarted Vertex after its hiatus, a watch brand that that carries a lot of heritage and vintage appeal to it for people, especially military watch collectors. You know, how much of a struggle is that to, to kind of take a brand that's well known for its vintage models and admittedly, you know, the M 100, your first release after you refounded the brand was based on that. How difficult is it to kind of take a heritage brand and move it into, you know, modern times or even to, uh, you know, create, um, |
| Don Cochran | uh you know new watches yeah i think it's a there's obviously a number of ways to do it and i did it the only way i knew how and and to be honest i did it with very much uh blinkers on i didn't want to look at what everyone else had done i just wanted to do what felt right to me i didn't want to do a replica of the original watch uh 35 36 mil version of www i wanted to move it forward i wanted to make it relevant um i wanted to make it as good as it could be. But at the same time, you know, the integrity that those original watches have, the things that they've done, the narrative that they have, the fact that they were on the wrists of soldiers that fought their way up the beaches of Normandy and then went on to liberate Europe and Asia and then served in many campaigns in the following wars. And, you know, that's that's just something you can't you can't buy, you can't create. It's just that's history. And that's fantastic. So I think as long as you pay homage to that with the right, you know, right dynamic or the right feelings, then it all makes sense. And it made sense to Vertex. And, you know, I never questioned it. I never thought it wouldn't work. I always just fell in love with the story of what they were. And it was, you know, for me, it was a very personal journey of bringing the watch back because it wasn't ever designed as a commercial project. It was designed because it was important to me as a family thing. It was my great-grandfather's company and then my grandfather's company and I was lucky enough to be incredibly close to my grandfather. We saw him every weekend and we talked about watches a lot, even though I was little and I didn't necessarily appreciate it as much as I would now. And so when he passed away when I was about 18 and then his wife, my grandmother, we stayed incredibly close to her. She passed away about seven years ago now. But she was a very important part of my life. And this was really a cathartic thing. It was really my way of mourning, but also trying to keep her with me, that I brought back her father's company so that she was relevant and he was relevant and it remained something in my life, I guess. So it was all about passion. It was all about heritage and it was all about integrity. And the fact that the WW watches kind of define that in such a strong way. just make sense. So it was layers upon layers upon layers of, of relevance for me. And I just hope that there would be enough of that to get it out into the world and for it to have relevance again. |
| James Stacey | Yeah. And you know, you know, Vertex obviously, you know, being in business for so long, um, had many other watch styles and types besides the WWW that most people don't know. But if you go on eBay and you look for Vertex, cause you want to find a dirty dozen watch, um, you end up with a lot of, Dainty little dress watches, et cetera, et cetera. And I think, well, I guess one question is, will you expand into those areas and how difficult will that be? I think of, of another brand, another small brand that kind of has taken one of the dirty dozen names and revived it. And that is Timor. And I think they're doing a nice job with that. with what they've done, but I think how do you, how do you take such a well-known watch that, that everybody knows the brand for that watch. And then say in a year, like you come out with this little dainty gold women's watch, for instance. |
| Don Cochran | Yeah, for sure. No, I mean, it's, again, it's all about stories and there's some lovely, I mean, there's so many great watches that Vertex made, um, going back to the first world war and then civilian watches, we made a huge number of watches for the railway, system here in the UK and in other parts of the world. And those were conductors' watches that they'd hold in their hand and they'd regulate the train service based on that timepiece. And I think that's a lovely story in itself. I don't think there's necessarily a place for that watch now in the market, but I just think there's stories yet to be told. I mean, obviously, we made some dive watches in the 50s and 60s. None of them were exactly what the new dive watch is but I really wanted to move away from just being a historic watchmaker or just we made this watch so we're now making this watch. I wanted us to have our own relevance and so it's it is difficult to work outside that because there's a huge amount of competition and the competition just seems to be snowballing all the time and so it's you know be true to yourself and try and remain relevant and keep moving forward I guess. |
| James Stacey | Yeah, and I think what you've done with the M100, you know, it took the classic lines of the WWW and the size and the general layout, but then you did these kind of small but very important tweaks to it with specifically these blocky chunks of superluminova that you used for the markers. I mean, that was such a bold way to kind of modernize the watch while keeping the kind of the overall feel of it. And then to do the bronze version, I mean, and then the mono pusher, which correct me if I'm wrong, vertex there, there isn't a historical precedent in the vertex line for that one, right? |
| Don Cochran | Yeah. So we did the money pushes kind of a interesting story in itself is that we were commissioned to make one, which we developed with Lamania in 1944, 1945, but then the war finished and we were rationed to how many movements we could bring into the UK. And there was much more money in civilian watches than military watches. So we never actually made a money pusher. And Lemania obviously went on to supply it. So we kind of made one, or we kind of commissioned, we designed one, but it was never made. But I've always loved money pushers. I think they're incredible. I love the purity of them. I like that sort of purity of purpose that military things have, that it's just designed to do a job and it starts, stops and resets. And that's how it works. So I'm a big fan. Um, so I made that for me as much as anything. |
| James Stacey | Sure. What's, um, you know, where would you like to see Vertex in, I don't know, five or 10 years? I mean, do you have aspirations to, you know, develop your own movements or, you know, expand your distribution or, or, or is there a point at which there's a certain size that you think, okay, this is, this feels comfortable for Vertex. I don't want to get bigger. I don't want to, you know, expand out of this specific area. |
| Don Cochran | Realistically, I want us to be a sustainable business. So I want us to not aim for exponential growth, but to have a sustainable company with happy customers, which is incredibly important. I'd like us to be more well placed within certain markets, including the US. We have a small service network in the US, but we need a bigger one. So we need to improve things in that area. But at the same time, we're doing quite a lot of sort of uh what's the word for it sort of expeditionary work with certain military um government military services at the moment to look at providing pieces specifically for um military use again which is quite an important thing for me because i think we need that as part of what we do um to make us relevant rather than being a company that that just um sits on our history one that is still relevant today so that's something yeah we're looking at But realistically, we're doing pretty well. And I'm very, very happy with where we are. And we only need to do it a little bit better. And that's not a bad place to be. |
| Jason Heaton | Don, I'm curious, you mentioned being, you know, relevant today, but you know, based on a legacy based brand, what do you think is the kind of the most pressing challenge in making that happen for Vertex? Or even just more simply, how does a watch brand find relevancy? without making, say, a smartwatch or something like that. I don't know. |
| Don Cochran | Yeah. Well, interesting moves military-wise. They don't really want smartwatches anymore. They want analog watches that don't put out small electrical signals which can be tracked or traced. And they want things that can be built around that sort of structure. So that's kind of interesting from that perspective. But I mean, realistically, it's about being in the right place with the right people, getting the right traction with the right people, looking after people properly. The biggest difficulty for any watch company now is competition and staying relevant, especially in our price bracket. Obviously, when you get into other price brackets, then watches become a different thing altogether. They become a work of art or they almost become a cryptocurrency now, which is something that we're not anywhere near. But it's interesting to see how it changes the watch world at large. So for us, it's really about building something that's fit for purpose. That's definitely us. Um, that's incredibly well-made, um, and, uh, people enjoy. |
| Jason Heaton | Do you find like in, in my mind, one of the hardest things about, about being kind of a smaller watch brand and wanting to remain relevant would be that you want to kind of always be in front of an audience to some degree, but with, you know, with the shipping delays, be like, even just the last two years, I've spoken to a handful of folks that run small watch brands and there's some systemic problems like with getting things made in various parts of the world that the shipping is a problem, the rest of it. And it just ends where you launch a watch and it's popular and people like it, and maybe even it sells out and it's a big hit. And then it's going to be like a year or two years until you get to do it again. And as sad as this sounds, and I'm not saying this about Vertex, I've literally been told this by other brands that have been fairly successful in similar price points. people forget. Or your pool of like aficionados goes from two or three hundred people on Watch You Seek and Instagram to like ten people or fifty people or something like that. Is that the case for... Is that kind of a universal thing, trying to keep up with the idea that new creates some sort of relevancy, novelty, that sort of thing? |
| Don Cochran | Yeah. I don't think it's even a thing for brands our size. I think Rolex wouldn't advertise if they didn't need to. Fair. Yeah. Momentum in a brand is air or fuel. I mean, without it, the brand stops working really. You can always maintain a small level. That's what I mean about sustainability within the brand. Sustainability means being able to keep that momentum without using up all your fuel and being left with nothing or not using your fuel at all. So it's about managing that. Supply chain crisis at the moment is an issue for sure. We try and mitigate it by working with different manufacturing partners and different manufacturers. We are still having problems with that. As much as anything, a lot of people that were incredibly reliable before are now struggling to understand their supply chain. So they're still good, but the people that they were getting their parts from have changed. or the people they were getting their supply. You know, it's such a complicated puzzle to put together right now. You know, the M60 should have been delivered seven months ago, and it will be delivered this month. And we can handle that, but much more than that, and it becomes quite difficult to plan things. Luckily, we're small, and small means that you can be nimble. We haven't got massive factories, we haven't got massive warehouses, we haven't got 52 retail outlets that we have to maintain. I think for those people, it can be much more frightening because the cost burn rate at that point becomes frightening. If we have a two month delay, you know, we can manage that. Three months later, we can manage that. If it becomes much more than that, it becomes more difficult. But so far, because we're piggybacking development of one watch and another watch, it should be fine. As long as nothing else happens, I think we're okay. And that's fine. And we don't, you know, we're not selling thousands of watches a year with maybe saying a thousand watches a year. And that's, that's okay. We can kind of make that work. |
| James Stacey | Vertex watches are sold 100% via the website. I noticed you had a, was it a pop-up or do you have a permanent position? I think someplace in London, right? |
| Don Cochran | Yeah. So we have, it is pretty much 100% through the website. We've been looking for our permanent location in London for, a while now. We just had a two-month residency at Chelsea Barracks in London, which was fantastic fun, but it was only ever going to be a short two-month spot while they changed the usage of that building. But it's redefined what we want that building to be. It's important for me that we have a physical location that people can come and visit as much so they can feel a part of the brand and we can see them in person than as anything. But yeah, that's always been a key part of my Vegas. Um, but it's really hard to find the right space for the right money. Um, uh, and that's been a ongoing difficulty. |
| James Stacey | When you launched a Vertex a few years ago, you had kind of an unconventional business model to say the least. Uh, um, when you were, um, the first M one hundreds were, um, only being sold via kind of a word of mouth referral basis. Um, was that kind of a way to test the waters and, sort of see how it would go and how would you rate the success or not the success of that approach? And is it something you'd consider doing again? |
| Don Cochran | Yeah. So it was a bit of a rebellion from my luxury sales background. So I'd just come from private aircraft and before that Aston Martin and all the rest of it. And it was, I was a bit sick of consumerism, conspicuous consumerism. I have lots of money, therefore I can do whatever I want. So I wanted to slow things down a bit and make it more about the journey of getting a thing rather than just buying a thing. And that then turned into changing the model so that if you were serving military or a military veteran, you could buy a watch and therefore giving ownership of the watch to the people the watch was created for originally, which is the military. does work, but it doesn't sell watches quickly, because you can't just click it and buy it. Yeah, we made 600 and 100 several sold now. So that were that obviously, you know, people like them. And that's what it's also really nice, because everyone that's got one actually quite appreciates their ownership. I think they generally when they do come up in the secondhand market sell for more than they cost, which isn't a bad place to be for a watch as well. Yeah. And they have a story to them. You know, people say I was on a plane and the guy next to me went, Oh my God, is that a Vertex? And they end up having a story, a chat about it. And that's, that's a really great thing to have created. It's not particularly commercial. I think it doesn't allow you to, you know, put an ad in the magazine and sell loads of things. Um, so you have to be committed to it, but it's something I'm, I'm, I really like, and it's something I'd like to keep going. So there'll be an M100 Mark II, which will be an automatic version of the M100. And we'll keep that model for that too. So military or military veterans. And that's, that'll be a core part of what we are. And I like it. |
| James Stacey | What other, um, what other watch brands do you like or admire? I know you're a fan of fears and other, another small British kind of revived British. |
| Don Cochran | Yeah. So Nick from fears is, uh, is an incredible person and amazing inspiration and one of the hardest working and most incredible focused forensic detail person I know. So he keeps me honest and makes me feel guilty about not working harder all the time. We're pretty good friends generally with most of the British watchmakers. There's a really nice community here from Schofield to Binion to Garrick, you know, Elliot and Brown. They're all excellent people and we're all friends even though we are sort of competing, but not. But then, you know, outside of that, You know, I think Tudor makes some fantastic watches. I think Omega is probably the best watchmaker in the world. I've always had a soft spot for Panerai. I have a Panerai. That's my wedding present from my wife 16 years ago. So, yeah, I like them all on different levels. And it's great to see what other people are doing. |
| James Stacey | Let's talk about the M60, the Aqualion. Absolutely. You know, this is a watch that had, I would imagine, a difficult gestation, just given what you were talking about with, with availability of parts and manufacturing. I mean, you, this watch was presumably in development right during the heart of, of this horrible, you know, COVID pandemic we've been experiencing for the past couple of years. Um, but it looks great. It looks amazing. And it sounds like you're starting to ship and, uh, tell us a little bit about it. Okay. |
| Don Cochran | Well, uh, I guess first thing it says, um, it's taken three years to get it to here. I kind of developed one watch, which I don't know if you ever saw, because I might have sent you a picture of it. It was a sandwich dial based dive watch, and it just didn't work. So we got as far as building the first prototypes, and that took about a year. And then just looking at it again, this just doesn't work. And it's actually over lunch with Nick from Fierce that we're in now. having a look at it, we're just going, I think we've just got to start again. So at that point, we had to start again. That's a hard pill to swallow, but it was the right pill to swallow. So then we start to work on what is now the M60 Aqualine. And the theme for me, and I really, really like being underwater and I love dive watches. And I think when we talk about passion for watches, my first passion for watches was dive watches. And they were really sort of the citizen Aqualine series of watches, sort of the Primaster, Aqualand and that sort of thing. I love those watches and I spend a lot of time underwater with them. So when I decided that we were going to make one, again, I kind of made a dive watch because I like dive watches. Everyone's going mad to make a dive watch. There are so many dive watches, but it's still my game and I get to play it. So the idea for me is, OK, I'm going to make a dive watch that has to be as good as it can be. So it was basically how over-specced can we make it. So the M60 is M for model 60 for 60 bar, which is 600 meters, which is the water resistance. It's Swiss ISO rated. So to do Swiss ISO rating, it has to be over-pressure tested by 25%, so 750 meters. It's also obviously heated and cooled to make sure there's no condensation within the case. It's drop tested. It's magnetically sealed or Faraday's case so it has to pass so many different tests and it's not a sample testing every watch has to be tested so that just that in itself is quite a big thing to take on and then it's also obviously a cost rated movement so again that's a lovely thing too it's it's a very high caliber of a nice caliber so it's based on a Selector SW300 but it's it's the top spec of that movement and that means it's got a different bearing it's got a different rotor. It's got a different balance wheel. It's really nice. So it's all excellent quality. And then obviously, well, the superluminaire, so it glows in the dark. |
| James Stacey | And then, of course, we've got the bezel, which is, I think, is the kind of the calling card of this watch, right? And tell us a little bit about the inspiration for that. Well, you know what? I know the inspiration for that because I remember we were having a chat one time and you I think you had the inspiration for this hanging in your bathroom or something, and you showed it to me over a WhatsApp video. |
| Don Cochran | Yeah, it's in my downstairs bathroom. So I have a Bren gun in my downstairs bathroom, which is a Second World War. They call it a light machine gun, but it's a really heavy machine gun. It shoots a .33 round, which is the same round you'd find in a Spitfire. And I got this right back when I started Flirtex for a shoot. Someone offered it to me and said, would you want to buy it off me? I'm like, yeah, sure. Also, my father, who was in the Royal Engineers, he was the record holder with the Bren gun at Bisley, which is the military shoot camp that he was at. So that was it was a nice piece of history for me. And you just look at this thing. It's got this fantastic elevation sight adjuster on the back of the gun and the adjuster for that. It just, it's a great, the knurling, the patination on it just works as a bezel. So just, it just seemed like a good thing to do. So we created the Bren bezel, which is basically taking the patination and knurling from that rear sight adjuster. And I think it works really, really well. And I think it adds obviously to the story, but it's also practical. It was designed then to do a job easily grippable, easily movable. And, and that's exactly what you want from the bezel. So it's good. |
| James Stacey | Yeah, it looks amazing. And you're offering the watch with a black case, so DLC or PVD black case, date or no date? |
| Don Cochran | Okay, so a launch, it's still only date and no date. And then in the future, there'll be a DLC version. It comes with a steel bracelet, which again, is, is, has to be ISO rated, says it's very strong, before the engineer. and a rubber strap and a pseudo-alpha strap, who we've always worked with, who are good friends of ours, um, comes in a sort of new sort of Peli case. It's called a rock case, which is quite an interesting thing in itself. It's interesting to see how the date and no date are selling because obviously some people are date people. Some people are no date people. I've always been a no date person. I think Jason, you're also a no date person. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. |
| Don Cochran | I would say, I think James is too. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. When possible. Sure. I mean, these days, when brands make watches that they intend to sell to a wide audience, it almost always has a date, like 95% of the time, just because I think people expect it on a watch from like, uh, I don't, not even like a legacy thing. It's just like, cause I guess the legacy would be no date in many ways. If you, it just depends on how far back you want to draw that line. Yeah, for sure. Um, this is a really beautiful watch, uh, for anyone who's listening, you should definitely, you know, hit the show notes and check it out. You know, Donna, I'm curious, it's a black dial dive watch of which, you know, the world has a lot. Yeah. In making this and making it your own, what are some of the kind of like challenges that you came across that you kind of wish people knew about? And if you were, say, on a podcast and a guy asked you, you would maybe share. |
| Don Cochran | I guess, I mean, challenges. I mean, it's it's it had to look like a vertex and not look like someone else's watch. Right. And it's quite I mean, you talk about watches all the time, so you know this more than anyone, but 80% of watches in the world are round circles with hands on them, probably somewhere between 38 and 43 mil. And within that 80%, there are infinite differences. And that's, I find fascinating, and that's where I get the passion from. So it's what do we do with ours so that it makes sense. So there are a lot of dial changes you do, hands, that sort of thing, depths between certain points. It needed to look like a vertex, but it couldn't have the broad arrow on it. So on our previous watches, the M100 and the MP45, it has a broad arrow, which is a British symbol. And it's mainly people related to the war or military ordinance, because it basically means crown property, that little thing. And you'll see on prison uniforms, you'll see on all sorts of civilian things in the UK too. but you're only allowed to use it. We were only given permission to use it for watches that had it on originally, so we couldn't use that. So it still had to have that feel. For me personally, I didn't want it to say professional on it or chronograph or that sort of thing. I always kind of get cross when you bought a watch and then you have to see on the dial what it does, because you'd have to figure that one out. So it was working with all those little details and just making them work, changing the bezel design over and over again. to the point where I wanted the bezel itself to be all about that knurling and outer knurling patination rather than overcomplicating the ceramic part of the bezel, which is actually fairly simple on the M60. And then little things like on the MP45 and the M100, there are two red dots at the 12 o'clock position, which have become a little bit of a thing for us. And I just couldn't make those work on the M60. So on the M60, if you unlock the steel bracelet just under the locking mechanism, you'll find the two red dots there. So I get to keep those. So you get to do fun stuff like that. And then the final story, I guess, is the Aquiline, which is the symbol on the back. So the Aquiline was the logo for my great grandfather's first watch company, which is called Dreadnought. And that was their logo. Dreadnoughts now, and that name is now owned by another watch company. So I couldn't use that, but I did still have the trademark for the Aquiline. So we use that and in a nod to Dreadnought. So Dreadnought is Latin. It's English translation is fear nothing. So all the serial numbers on the movements and the case backs start with FN, which is a slight nod to that fear nothing idea. |
| James Stacey | I love the, uh, I think other than the bezel, I think my, my favorite feature is actually the, uh, Aqualion logo on the back or the symbol. I think it's, it's, yeah, the logo looks great. Cool. Yeah. |
| Don Cochran | Thank you. I mean, I, yeah, it just works for us because it means something. I think as long as something means something, it's not there for, it's got purpose and it's good. |
| James Stacey | Yeah. And I think all those little sort of hidden things like, um, the, the Bren bezel, you know, it's something you can enjoy even if you don't know what it means. But I think once you, I guess that's the case with, with so many watches is the, you know, you dig in, you learn this little detail came from somewhere. Um, and I think FN might mean nothing to 99% of the people that, that buy this watch. But, uh, you know, once you learn that, it just adds that additional layer. |
| Don Cochran | So that's, uh, that's, yeah, it's just fun to add detail and to add resonance. Um, and I think that's the, What you get with a watch is, you know, you buy a watch partly because of tribalism, partly because you like the look of it, partly because the story that it tells, and sometimes the story that you can tell with it. And that story may be created by you during your ownership, or it may already be started by the watch itself. So yeah, hopefully that'll work. |
| James Stacey | Well, you know, before we kind of wrap up, I mean, what's on the horizon? I mean, this must be the year of the M60. |
| Don Cochran | Yeah, well, I hope so. No, so far, it's done really well. So that's great. And like you say, it's about supply and demand. We hope we can get some more, because we only have a certain number at the moment. So that's great. And we are looking forward to having some adventures with it, because this is a watch we can really start to do things with. So there's a few interesting adventures planned during this year for that watch. There'll be the M100 Mark II later this year, which will be an automatic version of the M100. Be interesting to see how that goes. Because I've always been very much manually minded, but the market seems to be slightly more automatic. So we'll see how that goes. And then we're developing, like I say, a couple of watches specifically for military use. So that'll be interesting as well. And then obviously, there's always a plan. But we can't talk about that yet. |
| James Stacey | Well, thanks so much, Don, for, for joining us. This is a, it's been a good way to kick off our, uh, our new year and, uh, and the Aquiline and the M60 looks great. And, uh, and we wish you all the best. |
| Don Cochran | Thank you very much. |
| Jason Heaton | All right. And that was a, a really fascinating chat with Don Cochran of Vertex watches. You can find out more at vertex-watches.com or vertexwatches on Instagram. Of course, both will be in the show notes. Please give them a follow. Check out what they're up to. I know both Chase and I are pretty keen to see the new M60 Aqualion dive watch in person. I think in photos, it looks fantastic. But with these things, especially with one at this price point and with what Don was saying about build quality being kind of the main thing, a photo can only take you so far. So we are pumped to get a chance to see that some time in the next little while. So that should be a good one. And, you know, a big thanks to Don for being on the show. Jason, you feeling some final notes? |
| James Stacey | Yeah, let's do it. I've got, I've got an interesting one and I don't remember where I came across this and I apologize if it came from a listener or someone on Instagram because I can't remember, but I had it saved in my kind of YouTube likes. And it's a, it's a video, fairly long video called building a cabin from pallet wood. And, you know, very descriptive title. I don't need to really explain much more than that. I mean, it's these couple of guys that cleared a space in the forest and probably assuming on their property and built an entire small cabin using old, you know, shipping pallets, wooden pallets. And it, it resonated with me, not because I'm any good with, with carpentry or wood. I wish I was. And I, but I've, I've done some small projects around here in the past couple of years using old pallets that I've kind of scored from the you know, at the back of like grocery stores and liquor stores and things like this, where they're kind of throwing them out and you pound the boards apart, take the nails out and then you've got all this scrap wood. And I've built like a little garden bench and some other stuff. And the thought of like building a small shed for the garden or whatever has always been very appealing to me. And these guys built this full on cabin with a little porch. They put a small stove inside a place to sleep, you know, a little bunk. Um, they even went so far as to, to build a chair, you know, just from, from all this scrap wood. And there, there's something almost meditative to just sit and watch these guys. Cause it's, it's like this time-lapse of, of them building this entire little structure in the woods and very appealing in a very Dick Preniky way, you know, in a very different way than Preniky who, you know, cut down trees and aged the wood and cut, you know, literally cut boards and things out of, out of felled trees. But so this is a very different way of approaching something similar. But, you know, huge respect to the guys that did this. And this is a video is coming up on, I guess, now three years old. So a lot of people might've already seen it, but it was new to me. And I just thought it was a fun, rustic little scene to watch. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. I haven't seen this. I don't even know the channel. They've got more than 2 million subscribers. TA Outdoors. Not sure how I missed it. I do like this kind of stuff on YouTube. So that's a quick subscribe. And I scrubbed through the video where you were chatting there. This looks awesome. |
| Unknown | Yeah. |
| Jason Heaton | This looks like super fun to watch. Yeah. It definitely is. I can tell, I can tell even from like still frames that the level of, of carpentry and kind of craftsmanship is beyond me on my own, certainly. But I think it's the sort of thing you could aspire to. These guys just look like they've done it before, probably a few times. I'm really, I gotta tell you, you get, you get about, you get into the last third of the video and there's some views of a little tiny stove, a wood stove. Yeah. I'm very much about tiny wood stoves. That's high on the list for the cottage is to install something like that nice and safely. Those marine style ones, the isolated ones. Yeah. Very, very cool stuff. So that's a great tip. And these are the sorts of videos that are going to really captivate my attention for the next little while as I start to really think of the summer. |
| Unknown | Yeah. |
| Jason Heaton | And even just the return of spring and heading back up to the cottage and the rest of it. I've got lots of plans for snorkeling and maybe doing a bit of diving in the lake. And then also, uh, uh, you know, uh, more, you know, continued kind of repairs and renovations and rejuvenation of that property. So this is a great one. I'm sure there's some good lessons in there for sure. |
| James Stacey | Yeah. You could, you could clear a little space off from the cottage and make a little man cave, a little, I think if I needed just space to my own, a tent would probably be the fastest, fastest way to go about it. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. Yeah. Right. All right. What do you have? I've actually got something that features both Jason and I picking very similar watches. We actually didn't talk about this. I actually didn't know, Jason, that you were in it until the book arrived a couple of days ago. But this is the 2021 edition of The Watch Annual, which is created as kind of an annual book of essentially like, what would you call this, Jason, like a small coffee table book, kind of a photo book? |
| Unknown | Yeah. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. And basically it's our buddy, Justin Hast, who's a great watch guy in the UK and just a really nice dude all around. He does this sort of compendium of people in the watch space every year. Jason, I think you were in it last year, right? In 2020? I was. Yeah. So it's... Let's see, it's better part of 230 pages, and it's all just beautiful photography and a little paragraph of text from the person who took the photo. And I didn't realize this until today, Jason, when I was flipping to my page, which is illustriously page 201, that here you are on page 199, 198, 199, and we picked the same watch, the Synchron Military, yours in the steel finish, the bare steel brushed on a Tropic and mine in the black on an Erika's original strap, which a combo I really like. And I actually loaned this watch to Jason Lim at Hallios. He has it right now and I miss it. Oh, cool. For me, it's definitely, this is a deeply a summer watch. So when I was last in Vancouver, I left it with him as I love to loan watches out and then forget where they are. But yeah, a big thanks to Justin for putting this out. It's like I said, it's a little over 230 pages. It's 99 watches from some 83 contributors. There's five CEOs among the list. And so it's 25 pounds and two pounds of each one goes to a charity. So last year it was the Healthcare Workers Foundation in the UK, and this year it'll be UNICEF's Give the World a Shot initiative. I think that's a pretty good way to go about funding or using some of the funds from a project like this. But also it's just kind of a nice thing to sit and flip through. You get some really beautiful photos of different watches, and then you'll definitely learn about Instagram accounts that you didn't know anything about. So some of them are pretty well known. You know, we've got Ted Cashew and Elizabeth Doerr in here. And then, uh, and then you've got, uh, all sorts of people that maybe, maybe it'll be your first time seeing their name and they're worth a follow. So for, for 25 pounds and you get a couple of bucks to, uh, to a good charity, I think it's a worth a highlight certainly. And, uh, uh, I thank you from, from myself and I assume from Jason too, to Justin and his team for including us. |
| James Stacey | Yeah. Yeah. That was a lot of fun. And it makes me think I should dig out that Synchron Military and I kind of miss it. That's a great watch. |
| Jason Heaton | It is. |
| James Stacey | Yeah. |
| Jason Heaton | I don't know if Jason's listening, but whenever you've had enough of it, feel free to send it home. Every now and then I open my watch box and there's like two or three spaces, and I go like, wait, what is supposed to go there? Yeah, yeah. So yeah, a good watch. And that's super weird. I don't think we chatted about this back in the day. I don't think I mentioned that I was in it to you. And then not only did we pick the same watch, but we're... I assume it was purposeful to put us one page next to each other, as it makes sense. So we're towards the back of the book when you get to it. I hope you enjoy. Yeah. And yeah, I mean, that's the first episode of 2020 too. Yeah, here we go. It feels weird to say 2022. I'm gonna say that wrong, I think. Yeah, yeah. And I won't notice it. 2020, 22. How many 20s are in there? Yeah, seriously, 220. |
| James Stacey | Oh my gosh, yeah. Wait till February 20th. 220, 2020. Yeah. Ouch. Okay. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. Yeah. I'm going to stop writing dates. I'm going to live in a post-date world, I think at this point. |
| James Stacey | All right. Well, as always, thanks to everyone for listening. You can subscribe to the show notes via notes.thegrenado.com or check the feed for more details and links. You can follow us on Instagram at Jason Heaton, at J.E. Stacey, and be sure to follow the show at The Graynado. If you're enjoying the show, please consider supporting us and maybe even pick up a brand new TGN signed Graynado. Furthermore, please subscribe and review wherever you find your podcasts. Music Throughout is Siesta by JazzArr via the Free Music Archive. |
| Jason Heaton | And we leave you with this quote from E.B. White, who said, I arise in the morning torn between a desire to improve the world and a desire to enjoy the world. This makes it hard to plan the day. |