The Grey NATO – 173 – November Q & A

Published on Thu, 09 Dec 2021 06:00:12 -0500

Synopsis

This is a Q&A episode of The Gray NATO podcast where James and Jason answer questions submitted by listeners. Topics covered include:

Advice on choosing between keeping a road bike or getting a gravel bike for off-road riding
Regional foods the hosts look forward to when traveling
Wearing a rally/perforated leather strap on a dive watch
Getting into better physical shape for alpine adventures like climbing mountains
The appropriateness of providing a watch's serial number when selling it online
Using a compass attachment on a watch strap for navigation
Convenient features like tool-less micro-adjusts and quick-release straps on watch bracelets
Trends in marketing budgets for watch brands and the role of press trips/events in the future

The hosts share their thoughts and personal experiences on each topic.

Transcript

Speaker
Jason Heaton	Hello and welcome to another episode of The Grand NATO, a loose discussion of travel, diving, driving, gear, and most certainly watches. This is episode 173 and we thank you for listening. This is a Q&A episode. And James, we've got some kind of updates and news about Q&A now.
James Stacey	Absolutely. Yeah, we do. So in the event that you've missed the last couple episodes starting in the new year, might be January, might be February. We'll make it whole either way. The Q&A episode will only be available for TGN supporters, and it'll come as a fifth episode once a month on its own feed. So a separate feed that you can subscribe to. The idea is we'll be able to have more time to dig deeper into bigger questions and really field questions from anybody in the supporter side of the game. So we're going to have some more news on that coming soon. So if you're a supporter, just watch your inbox because we can send you guys specific emails. But things like the, uh, the feed and, uh, the address to send your questions and that sort of thing will be coming up soon. And then once we have enough questions, we'll start moving forward with that plan. If you'd like more information on supporting TGN, including how you could get a sweet logo sticker and a TGN signed Uta Graynado, please visit thegraynado.com and click the support button for all the details. So. Over the next two Q&As, we're going to work through all of those that have been sent in before we started this thing. We don't want people to feel left out because they decided not to pay the five bucks a month or whatever. That's not necessarily the goal here. So we're going to get through all these questions. They were sent in good faith. So obviously we want to do that. And that way nobody misses out getting their question on the show. So Jason, what do you say we start with this first one from Jerome, who's got a question about gravel bikes? Definitely.
Jerome	Hi, I'm Jerome from Lafayette in California. Big fan of the show and listener since episode one. I have a bike question for Jason. Last year, I purchased a used road bike and I'm enjoying it a lot. Recently, I've been looking more and more at gravel bikes as I'm surrounded by nice regional parks. It would be a great way to get off the roads and cars and spend more time in the nature. However, I'm not so keen on owning two bikes. It wouldn't make sense to sell my road bike and use the funds towards a gravel bike. Here's my question. From your experience, can the gravel bike still work well as the only bike and perform well on the road? If so, do you recommend two sets of wheels for the days I'll do long road rides? Or should I just get two bikes, keep my old road bike and get a new gravel bike? Thank you and keep up the good work.
Jason Heaton	All right. Thanks for the question, Jerome. And boy, thanks for being a longtime listener. Episode one. That's pretty incredible. We really appreciate your loyalty. For sure. Your, your question about gravel bikes, you know, gravel bike is kind of a term that, um, has kind of come up just in the past, I don't know, five to 10 years. Um, and you know, these are bikes that used to be known as, uh, in some circles as a touring bike or a random a bike, or, uh, some, some people maybe, uh, might call a cyclocross bike, a gravel bike. Basically we're talking about a road style bike with, with drop handlebars and, um, the clearance to take. wider and sometimes knobby tires and you know a lot of these bikes because of that larger tire and because you you're going for less for speed and nimble handling on a on a road you know criterium track or something like that you you want a longer wheelbase for a little bit more comfort so those are kind of the main differences between a road bike and and what's now called a gravel bike that said i personally have a twin six rando which is sold As sort of a do everything bike. And I bought it as. Uh, the one with the steel frame, they make a titanium version as well, but this is a bike that works really well in both scenarios. I do the great majority of my writing is on the road, unpaved roads and trails, but I run a 44 millimeter wide tires on it. So there's pretty much the fattest tires you can get on these. And I'm using slick wide tires, but it will take a knobbies as well. And it's enough to be able to kind of drift off onto, you know, a gravel trail, a fire road, things like that with, you know, with, with good comfort and, uh, and traction. Um, in your case, I think, you know, if you want to be minimalist and frugal, sell the road bike, get a gravel bike and use it for double duty, you know, and with the right tires as I've got, you can, you can pretty much ride on any, any surface, uh, without much trouble. A second set of wheels with knobbies would be interesting. It's kind of like switching the strap on your watch for, for different applications. I can't say I would do that. I think, you know, I don't ride enough off road that I would need a complete second set. I'd probably, if I knew I was having a big gravel ride coming up, I'd just switch the tires themselves. That said, you know, if you have the space and the budget, uh, you know, I'm, I'm someone who used to have a quiver of bikes in the basement. I used to have a touring bike, a road bike. Uh, I even had a track bike and then I had a mountain bike. Uh, all at the same time. Now I'm down to one bike, but certainly I'm not going to tell you not to get a second bike. I think, uh, sometimes that variety and that different feel can, can be fun to grab your, you know, your, your road bike when you're feeling kind of light and fast, or, or if you want to do something a little longer and a little rougher, grab the gravel bike. Um, there is a bike called the allied echo allied is a, I believe it's an American company that makes a bike called the echo that has something called, uh, the flip chip hybrid dropouts. And so that. What that allows you to do is actually switch wheels between knobby wheels and, uh, more of a road wheel with, with narrower tires. And it'll actually alter the wheel base, um, by extending it slightly. Um, it requires a bit of work. You have to kind of adjust it as disc brakes. So you have to kind of fiddle with the front disc brake, but, um, it's an interesting concept and it doesn't come cheap. I don't know if I had to lend you some advice, I would say, um, if your road bike does not take wider or knobby tires because of clearance. Trade it in, sell it and get a, a nice gravel bike and, uh, and run some wider slicks on it or some very light knobbies on it and use it for everything. That's, uh, that's my bit of advice. Cool. Thanks for the question, Jerome. Uh, good luck with that and, uh, let us know what you end up with. Next question comes from Dave, who wants to talk about travel food.
Dave	Hey guys, this is Dave from Connecticut. Been a listener since 2017. It's great to see you guys building such a great community here. My question is actually inspired by Ghoshani and her sharing her coconut roti recipe. So over the pandemic, I found I was really missing regional foods. So I got inspired to learn how to make a lot of them myself. It's kind of turned into a culinary travel around the world that I could do in my own kitchen. Got to learn how to make food from Italy, China, Ethiopia, Morocco, Japan, all sorts of places. Oh, of course, regional pizzas as well. But my question for you is, is there a particular food or cuisine that you always look forward to when you travel? Something from Switzerland or Sri Lanka or anywhere else that sort of leaves an impression on you and you always look forward to having it when you go there. I'd love to try to make it myself and if I can figure out a good recipe, I'd love to share it with the community you have here. No dietary restrictions really. In the interest of sustainability, I do try to get my vegetables from local farmers and I get all of my meat from regenerative farmers. But I will go out of my way for hyper-regional ingredients if need be. Although my wife is vegetarian, so bonus points for any vegetarian cuisines you can think of. Thanks again and look forward to hearing from you.
James Stacey	Thank you very much for that question, Dave. That's an interesting one. Jason, anything leap to mind? Any food that you miss when you're not traveling or recipes you like to try and handle at home, but are kind of from far away?
Jason Heaton	Yeah. And Dave mentioned, uh, Ghoshani with his question. And I think, you know, I'm, I'm lucky in the fact that the travel food that I crave is, is from her home country, Sri Lanka, a place that we've gone regularly, but haven't been in, in several years now. Um, and you know, one of the simplest foods that, that I kind of miss that, that Ghoshani makes regularly at home, I would almost say weekly is, uh, is dal, which is a generic term for, for lentils, both in Indian cuisine and Sri Lankan and in Sri Lanka, they call the specific preparation, paripu, which is kind of an orange lentil called masoor lentils or masoor dal. And it's very simple to prepare. You basically put it in a pot covered with water, rinse it a couple of times to kind of get the foamy kind of starchy bit off of it, and then boil it with turmeric until it gets soft. And then in another pan, you get some oil and onions and garlic and some curry leaves and as many green chilies as you can stand, kind of all chopped and mixed together. And then when those are browned, You add some cumin seeds, dump in the, the boiled doll that has absorbed all the water, kind of stir that all in, add coconut milk and salt, and then you make it as creamy as you want. And, uh, and it's just this simple kind of creamy, very healthy, very kind of earthy tasting specialty that's eaten all over the world. I mean, I think, you know, Nim's purges says that, you know, that's what fuels him when he's climbing, uh, climbing in the Himalayas. I mean, it's, it's, uh, all over the Indian subcontinent and it happens to go really well with the, coconut roti that that Ghoshani gave us the recipe for way back when she was on the episode. So, um, that's kind of my go-to kind of favorite travel food, which I guess in a way, because we eat it at home regularly, it isn't necessarily travel food, but there is something about eating it, uh, eating it while I'm sweating away over in Sri Lanka. When we go, it kind of always makes me think of that. That's great. What about you? Any travel foods that you.
James Stacey	Yeah. I mean, I don't know. I don't even know if I would call them travel foods because they're foods from places I haven't been. I would love to know how to make like a pretty good bowl of ramen at home. Oh, yeah. But I think the thing is, is like, you look at the way they make ramen and it takes a long time and they make it in a big quantity, right? Yeah. These amazing soup stocks. And then, you know, you've got your sliced rib or, you know, meats or whatever, the pork, that would definitely be high on the list. The other one, actually, that, you know, Dave, if you're able to find a recipe for proper chicken jalfrezi, It's a, um, a curry that I, there was a spot that I loved in Vancouver, right near my house. So hundreds of feet from my house in Vancouver. Yeah. Right. Yeah. I kind of got used to the one that was available at this spot in Vancouver called Raga. Uh, so a great Jalfrezi recipe I'd be, I'd be interested in. And my guess is it's not incredibly complicated, but it does have this delicacy, uh, to the flavor, very ginger forward, kind of a red curry. I love that kind of stuff. And then the other one that isn't quite the same, although your best bet is to make it at home. So I don't know that I necessarily need a recipe, but I'll forever be thinking about like proper Mexican street tacos. If I go to L.A., that's what I'm going to try and dig up. I want to buy it from like a card or whatever. And the best ones I ever had were down in Cabo San Lucas. And just I'll always love that. I mean, and for me, it's not so much that I can't make any of the singular parts at home. It's the hot sauces.
Jason Heaton	Oh yeah.
James Stacey	Are never quite the same, right? These ones, you know, they're just Tupperware containers with a spoon. Yeah. And they're, they're interesting colors and the heat's never quite the same. When you make a hot sauce here, I buy one from the store. It's always fine. But that, I think that's like, if you're talking about like food, I might miss maybe once a year, I would miss like a proper schnitzel. Right. But I mean, I live in, I live in a pretty white forward part of the world. I'm sure I could find schnitzel. in and around Toronto and Hamilton. I just haven't tried that much, but no, it, it comes down to places I've never been like, yeah, Jalfrezi out of India or, um, ramen or, or tacos, that sort of thing. And sometimes it's just specific little ingredients that like are beyond, you know, my very limited culinary skills. So that's a fun question though. And now I'm hungry. Yeah. Good one. Yeah. All right. Let's get to another one, which is, uh, uh, from a fellow named Neil with a question about, uh, a rally strap on a diver.
Neil	Hi, James and Jason. This is Neil from Arkansas. I'm thinking other listeners might appreciate this question. Is it ever okay to wear a leather Raleigh watch band with a diving watch? Thanks for all you do. Much appreciated.
James Stacey	Jason, you got a strong feeling one way or another about Raleigh straps. So this is your sort of leather strap, I assume with the holes punched in it.
Jason Heaton	On, uh, on a diver. I don't really have any strong feelings about it. I mean, I think, you know, I, I guess I'm, it's a bit of a pet peeve of mine when, whenever I post a picture of a leather strap in general on a dive watch and people come out and kind of chastise me for putting a leather strap on a dive watch. And I think we've, we've brought it up on past shows. I just think it's kind of silly to even have, you know, concerns about this. I mean, just wear whatever you want. I think, uh, you know, a rally strap is as good as any other strap on a dive watch. If you're going to go in the water, put rubber or NATO on it.
James Stacey	Yeah. If you, yeah, unless you, I'm, I'm in the same place that the TGN has a very, we have a hard stance where, whatever you like, whatever makes you happy. It can be any strap on any watch. It makes no difference. The goal is that you love it. And with a rally strap on a diver, it makes perfect sense to me until you go diving at which point maybe don't take the rally strap underwater.
Unknown	Yeah.
James Stacey	But I hope that answers the question, Neil. Thanks very much for sending in another question. Always nice to hear from you. Next up, we've got one from Jackson about Alpine fitness.
Jackson	Hi, James and Jason. This is Jackson from Texas. I have two questions for you today that come from mostly the same topic. First, how would you start getting into the world of alpinism? I have recently set a goal to make it to at least base camp of all seven summits and the top of those that are within my reach. My hiking experience is now a few years old, but it was more recreational during summer vacations or scouting trips rather than that of a technical nature. Are there outfitters or guides you would recommend that could offer a path to making this new lifelong goal a reality? My second question is around getting to a level of fitness for adventures like this. I've always been the thin and trim guy, but I've never really been a gym or dedicated fitness person. Jason, when you did your Mount Baker expeditions, were there preparation programs that you followed? And if so, what areas of fitness would be best to start with? For one quick watch connection, I have recently acquired the new 36 millimeter Explorer and plan on having it with me on all of these adventures. Likely strapped to my wrist on a gray NATO. Thanks. And I can't wait to hear your responses.
Jason Heaton	Thanks, uh, thanks Jackson and perfect watch for what you're doing. I, I strongly encourage you to get each of those summits engraved on that, uh, on that nice blank case back as you tick off your, your list of summits and, and base camps. That sounds like a really cool, cool adventure challenge. Um, you know, when I climbed Vernier, I went through a Rainier Mountaineering Inc or RMI out in near Seattle. And, uh, they had a good, uh, kind of fitness program or, or training regimen that they outlined on their website. Uh, and we can put a link in the show notes to that on their RMI guides.com site. You know, being in the Midwest, it was very difficult to find mountains to get any sort of altitude training or uphill fitness. So it just kind of amounted to wearing a pack and doing a lot of Hill repeats on, on ski Hills during the summer, you know, up and down the grassy slopes. Um, but you know, when we talked to Sean Lurwell a few episodes ago about fitness, you know, we, a similar question came up and he. Um, just said, you know, it's all about cardio. It's all about cardio fitness and kind of leg strength. So he outlined a few different kind of specific exercises that you could tackle to, to get into kind of a mountain fitness mode. But, you know, unless you can go, go climb mountains to train it, it's a little bit trickier, but it's all about, you know, weight bearing uphill movement and cardio fitness. And, you know, when I did Rainier, I was talking to the guide after I came down, I was kind of feeling. very proud of myself. And I was like, you know, what's next here. And he said, Oh, you, you know, you could, you're, you could be ready for Denali next, you know, and between Rainier and Denali, you know, we encourage you to do some kind of travesty crevasse rescue training and some more extensive training. And they offer kind of an intermediary course where they offer those sorts of skills and then sign up with a guide to go do Denali or whatever. So, you know, it's just, I guess it's just building, it's just building on, on, on skills and then just keep amping up your, your fitness. James, when you did Baker, I'm guessing it was similar. You were, you were a little closer to mountains. So you were actually able to train at some altitude.
James Stacey	Yeah. And I did Baker with Mountain Madness, uh, and I would absolutely recommend it. They do stuff all over the world, very famous outfitter, um, and, uh, and guiding, you know, a company so that that one, that's an easy recommendation. I would happily do another trip with them. And then as far as the prep, I went way overboard, I think. you know, I was on the mountain with people who, who, the first time I did it, um, I did Baker, you know, let's call it 1.9 times. Um, and, uh, the first time we did it, we had some folks from the Midwest who hadn't put in their time, uh, getting ready. And it costs us the summit on a beautiful day, um, with good snow conditions. We just, uh, we couldn't maintain the pace on the, on the line to, have it make sense for us or our return or coming back down. So I remember that being a pretty gutting and, and it put me in a scenario where when I knew when I was coming back in about a month to try again, I would, I would push even harder. And I I'm with Jason. I mean, you got two major concerns, how strong your legs are and how comfortable you are carrying the weight. And, and I would say if you've got stairs in your neighborhood, start doing stairs. Yeah. And as soon as that you can do the stairs and your heart doesn't go, you know, immediately to 180 beats, put some weight on your back. Use the same backpack that you're going to be climbing with. So you can identify if it's sitting correctly, if it's going to be comfortable and, and work your way up to being able to do the stairs with 80 pounds, you know, probably what you, what you'll need for a proper track. Uh, and it could be more, you know, make sure you're it's accurate to the, to the thing. In my scenario, I was very much spoiled because I was already hiking a ton in Vancouver. And all I did was start to wear a weight vest or put scuba weight in the bottom of my backpack. And I think just a couple times I did it, maybe three times I did what's called the gross grind with about 40 pounds in my bag. And that's, that would be, that one experience was harder than my entire time on Baker, but you know, the 45, 50 minutes it took me to go up with a gross grind. And I'll, if you don't know what the gross grind is, I'll put it in, I'll put it in the show notes, but it's, it's essentially a stair climb up the North shore mountains. Um, just kind of not, not stairs specifically. It's a trail, but it's very steep and, um, and it's a lot of step ups. Uh, so yeah, I would say do that. You know, I've known people who trained for stuff with a stair master. So if you, if you don't have the ability to use stairs nearby, but you can get to a gym, maybe start up a membership and focus on getting comfortable with that weight and, and continually move, make sure that your shoes are broken in. Cause that'll, that'll ruin your day real quick. I think I've said that before on the show. And then make sure that you do enough functional training. So flexibility training and enough so that just so that you can identify if there's any kind of weak spots in your physiology, and you can kind of work to protect those by, you know, getting a little bit stronger. So deep squats, and I would do kettlebell swings, if you get a chance that that's good trunk, like functional strength. And then otherwise, yeah, I mean, you're climbing up a mountain, so it's one step after another. So just find some way to do steps, whether it's a local trail or actual steps or StairMaster. I think you can absolutely work your way up to it. Yeah, good one. All right. Next up, let's get to one from Nick, who's got a question about vintage valuations.
Nick	Hi, James and Jason. Nick here from Canberra, Australia. Thanks for all you do. Really enjoy the show. It's really helped shape my watch journey over the last couple of years. I've got a question about the financial value of vintage watches versus their personal heritage and historical value. A friend's dad had mentioned having an old Rolex and asked to have a look at it and discovered that it's a 60s Rolex Submariner that belonged to his father. He received it as part of the America's Cup. And it's an Explorer dial model, making it quite rare. I looked into value and a US watch dealer offered $100,000 for it just off a picture. So it's obviously worth a lot of money, but also has significant family value. And I'm wondering which of these is likely to diminish more over, you know, coming decades. And if there's a right time to sell this sort of thing, or even just what your thoughts are. Hey Nick, thanks for that question. That's an interesting one. You know, the first thing that comes to my mind is, you know, everybody has a number.
James Stacey	You can say you don't have a number or something's not for sale, but I think with most things in life, if the numbers kept going up, you'd eventually get to the point where you said, all right, fine. And I think that's kind of a personal decision, but if you're talking about a watch where the value of it on the market, and this is a very hot market right now, I mean, the value for Explorer dial subs has been hot for a decade, but it's certainly not low at this point. I think you just have to decide your number. I think at a certain point, a watch is still a watch and it's up to you if the number of what it is on the market is greater than the sentimental value or the backstory or something like that. At a certain point, if I had a watch that was worth an amount of money that could change my day-to-day or allow me to achieve something I maybe thought was decades away or some example like that, I think I would start to think like, Well, maybe I've had my time with this watch and it's time to have a new experience with what I can get after the watch. But I think it's a super personal decision. I think while there might be some bubbly sort of tendencies around certain brands, I don't think one of those brands is vintage Rolex, especially not genuinely rare vintage Rolex. And I'm sure that things will fluctuate, but I don't see the market just falling out on something that collectible. What do you figure, Jason?
Jason Heaton	Yeah. And before I get into it, I mean, What an incredible find an Explorer dial 60s Rolex from the America's cup. That's, that's incredible. Yeah. I mean, I think this is, you know, this is one of those decisions that is very much, uh, belongs to, um, I mean, I hate to use the term first world problem or, or, you know, privilege or whatever else, but you know, I, I think it would come down to what, what are your priorities in life and what do you need? And if you're a watch person or not, and I don't have, I'm not in the position to. Um, you know, where I've got like a really valuable vintage family heirloom piece like that. I do have some valuable vintage watches, Rolex included that don't really mean much to me other than, uh, financially. And, and now that I'm facing down a potentially expensive repair on, on the old Land Rover, as I mentioned last week, um, you know, I think to myself, gee, you know, is this, uh, is this old sub that I've got sitting in a, in a box that I don't wear much because the loom is dead and it doesn't have much water resistance left. Would that be better spent on the truck that I'd like to drive regularly and can, you know, make, you know, trade the value of one for, for the repair on the other. But yeah, I think, I think it really is a very personal thing. And a lot of times, especially nowadays, we're seeing, you know, maybe a younger generation that, that isn't as into to watches as, as maybe the person who originally owned it. And they might look at this and say, you know, for a hundred thousand, I can You know, I can almost, you know, I can pay off my house or I can, you know, travel the world or quit my job or whatever. And, and that might be worth more to them. So yeah, there's no good answer to this and I certainly don't have it. Um, but it is a very interesting time to talk about it for sure. Yeah. So thanks for that one, Nick. A real conundrum for a lot of people.
James Stacey	For sure. And let us know what you end up deciding. We'd love an update, of course, but best of luck with that decision. That's a tough one. I genuinely don't know if I knew I had a $100,000 watch today, because I don't know. I guess I would need the money. Yeah, right. Would be the impetus. Yeah. Like if I had something to spend it on, I would get it. But otherwise, I don't think it's not going to be worth $100,000 in a year. I think you could probably take your time on that decision. You know what I mean? Right. Yeah. Pretty collectible thing. Cool find, for sure. Next up, we've got a question from Bill about what looks like a series of topics. Yeah.
Bill	Hey guys, this is Bill from Bergen County, New Jersey. I first want to thank you for all the wonderful content that you continue to put out each week. You make my long commute to work on Thursday morning fun, and I always look forward to listening to you and the new episode. I have several questions. The first is my Helios Universa has on a 10 ATA. And I've tried to figure out what the difference is between the ATM and ATA designation, but I've been unable to find a clear answer. The second question I have is, which watch in each of your current collections would you wear if you had a meeting at the White House or with the Queen of England? And the third is, which website other than Hodinkee or websites other than Hodinkee do you guys rely upon for current watch content? I'm always looking to find the best resources. and I'm constantly trolling around the internet and I'm wondering where you keep up to date on current watch developments. So thank you. Keep up the good work and I look forward to your reply.
Jason Heaton	All right. Thanks Bill for the few questions there. You know, ATA and ATM are very similar. However, one I think more refers to atmospheric pressure, kind of absolute. It's like, what is the, what is the pressure at that given spot versus what is sea level atmospheric pressure? Um, let's say you descend to 99 feet for talking Imperial measurement, you've increased. Uh, your pressure by three atmospheres over what you were at at the surface, because you, you increased by one atmosphere for every 33 feet of depth, but you'll actually be at four ATA of pressure. So it's three atmospheres for depth. Plus the, the, the one atmosphere that you're at when you're at the surface, because, because surface air pressure is one atmosphere. Roughly speaking for us watch people, there isn't a heck of a lot of difference. I think if a watch is rated to 10 atmospheres, you know, you're probably as good as if it was rated to 11 atmospheres. But that's kind of the difference. I think it's more of kind of a scientific kind of splitting of hairs as to whether or not, you know, you're referring to the pressure at its given depth or whatever versus what is the actual sea level atmosphere. White House watch, gosh. James, what would you wear if you went to the White House? I guess for you it might be the Canadian Parliament or something.
James Stacey	It would depend on what context I was at, I was going there for. You know, if you were invited for an event, I think you'd want to wear something kind of dressy. But if I was, you know, I don't know, invited for a, you know, a Jack Ryan-esque talk about, you know, military intrigue on the, on the front, on the, you know, the outer rims of Canada's littoral system or something, I don't know. I'd probably wear the Explorer, which is whatever I had on the Seiko would be fine. I can't imagine any, any government, let alone my own calling upon me for anything other than taxes. Uh, you know, I think, uh, yeah, I'd probably, probably just throw the Rolex on, uh, or if I was already, if I already had like the SPB or whatever, that'd be good. But if it was something fancy, like a, an event or something, I might want to wear the chronograph Swiss or something a bit dressier. Right.
Jason Heaton	Right. I think I might, I might do the Speedmaster if I went to the white house. I mean, given the kind of historic connection between kind of the kickoff of the Apollo program with John Kennedy at the White House and kind of the connection there. I think Biden wears a Speedmaster sometimes and things like that. That's a fun pick. Yeah. And I guess if it was the Queen of England, maybe something British, you know, Vertex, Bremont, CWC.
James Stacey	Yeah. You'd have to wear a Bremont for sure. Yeah. Show up in a jag. Yeah. Savile row suit. Yep.
Jason Heaton	We'll just slather it on.
James Stacey	Yeah, definitely. And then lastly, Jason, any sites you read beyond Hodinkee that you like to keep track of for, you know, various things to know about the watch game?
Jason Heaton	Well, I mean, I think it's, it's largely probably the same that, that we've talked about and overlap on here, you know, Fratello, Worn and Wound. I like their take on things, you know, they kind of started out as looking at more of the affordables. They've gone up market a little bit with some of their picks, but they kind of, they still, you know, stay true to their, their beginnings and, and talk about a lot of micro brands. Um, I think one that, that I like to visit is the, this is a forum, but the military watch resource forum, I think it's absolutely, it has this sort of curmudgeonly, um, pragmatic viewpoint, you know, these guys there, they, they really, you know, call a spade a spade and, and sort of, uh, you know, they don't tolerate, uh, uh, a lot of sort of marketing spiel when it comes to brands and reissues and things like this. And I kind of like that. It sort of brings everything down to earth and they're, they're very hardcore. And if you ever want to know anything about any sort of military watch history, that's the place to go. And I kind of go there and quietly I'm a fly on the wall and lurk there.
James Stacey	Yeah. I, uh, that's a, that's a great, that's a great suggestion. The military watch resource forum. Uh, that one always reminds me, there's that meme that goes around of like, um, asking a very junior question in sort of a depth, a deep sort of forum of, you know, from, uh, no country for old men. It's Tommy Lee Jones looking over his newspaper. It's kind of like, are you really, that's really the question. And I ever, anytime I would, I would type like even think about starting to type a question on some of those forums. I think like, I'm going to get the Tommy Lee Jones reply. I could feel it, but you know, bless them. They're doing it's great work. And those are fun. And yeah, I'm, I'm on board with the same monochrome Fratello, uh, time and tide, uh, worn around absolutely, probably my first stop outside of a Hodinkee. They do great stuff. You know, we've talked about the Ristorian in the past. So there's, you know, that's not like, they're not going to be covering new watches necessarily. Yeah. But, and then it just depends typically if you have a specific, you know, niche or, or channel for watches, you may, you may filter towards one or the other. Maybe you're, you know, you're big into Fratello cause you love the speedy or, you're more towards worn around because of brands that they typically like to cover. I like to at least keep an eye on all of these things. So that's why feed lease pretty helpful because you don't have to check every site independently. You just shows up kind of like an email and you can go through the headlines and then I can save them to pocket and read them when I have time. Yeah. And that's, that's probably what I, what I would say. I mean, these days I'm not reading as much as I should. One, there isn't that much happening in the, in the watch industry that isn't, you know, being sent to my inbox. Right. Right. But but if you're not on the press cycle and getting the PR releases and stuff like that, then I would say the normal kind of big name sites and then supplement with a few handfuls. If you love Tudor, you should be, you know, Tudor collectors, a great option. And then, yeah, absolutely. The forums, I keep five or six watch you seek like host forums in my RSS. So like anything that goes into the Seiko forum, I see it. Oh, sure. So if it's a reference I've never heard of or a mod request or I just kind of keep up in the in the game. The general one, you're skipping through a lot of data, but occasionally you see a thread where you go, Oh, I absolutely want to read that. Yeah. Whether it's somebody who's learned something, you know, about buyer's remorse sort of thing, or a update on a purchase, or I like some of that. And then I still, I'll still dip in and out with Reddit. I have, I will, mostly I like to go to Reddit to try and answer questions that people have. It's a, it's a really helpful community. They have very specific tastes, which I also appreciate whether they're the same taste or not, but the Reddit r slash watches is, is pretty good. You know, most of it's wrist shots and, and that sort of thing, but I think that's also fine. And then you get some fun because occasionally people will post like, um, watch identification stuff, which if you have 20 minutes to dig can be a really fun little bit of sleuthing, trying to figure out what somebody was wearing 30 years ago or whatever. So, Those would be my recommendations. We can put those in the show notes as well, obviously. So a quick click if anybody needs them at thegraynado.com. All right. Next up, we've got a question from Andrew about biking with watches.
Andrew	Hey guys, this is Andrew from Brooklyn, New York, and I'm just taking a break from running errands on my bicycle. As a native New Yorker, I love the ability to bike around the city, especially in this fall weather. I also like to show up with a nice mechanical watch on. Do you guys think I'm being reckless wearing something nice as it vibrates over potholes or cobblestones? Or am I underestimating these watches' resilience, and I should just wear them when biking and get them serviced when they need to be serviced? Would love to hear your thoughts. Thanks.
Jason Heaton	I like the street noise in the background, Andrew. That was great. We need more of that on the show. Audio was good, but it really gave the sense of being in the scene, getting off your bike there. Yeah, thanks for the question. I used to be, I guess I've gone back and forth. I used to kind of take pride in wearing my watches, doing anything, especially biking or skiing and things like that. And then for a while I thought, eh, this probably can't be good for it. I'm going to switch over to my, you know, Garmin or Suunto or whatever I had at the time. But, um, you know what, I'm, I'm realizing that, that, you know, you're right. These watches, I think we underestimate them. I think they're, they're more than up to the task. Um, given what many of them have been through, uh, in their kind of, in their, in their heyday and, and, you know, for what they were designed, Speedmaster, MB2, Submariner, et cetera. Um, so I say go for it, especially, you know, I mean, the occasional block of cobblestones you get, uh, in Manhattan or, um, you know, a pothole here and there, I think, uh, isn't gonna, isn't gonna harm your watch too badly. Now, certainly a crash going over the handlebars or smacking it on something is not something you want to be doing, but I think those are pretty low risks, uh, or, you know, hopefully low risks. Um, whether or not it's the right watch to wear, um, you know, I, I'm not sure that, you know, you should be wearing a, you know, a vintage Cartier or something like that if you're out on your bike, but I'm guessing you're not. So, uh, pretty much, uh, anything you probably own in terms of a sports watch, a modern sports watch should be just fine. I mean, I, I think, you know, we, in the old days, we'd see racers like Eddie Merck swearing. Uh, Rodania watches while he raced or Fabian Cancellara was, was seen wearing a lot of IWCs when he was racing the Tour de France and Paris Roubaix and things like that. So, um, I think you're good to go. And I, I highly encourage you to show up with your nice watch on and, and, uh, click out of your bike and, and head into work or wherever you're going. So yeah, good one. James, you, you you've gone on record as saying you don't like to bike with a watch on.
James Stacey	I don't like the feeling of biking with a watch on. I feel like I'm just thinking about the bike a lot or the watch rattle and like things shaking loose inside it. But I have no data to support that. It's like a psychosis.
Unknown	Yeah.
James Stacey	A very light psychosis. I just I don't necessarily like the feeling. But I will say that I've come around on it and now I almost don't think about it. We're doing a little bit more biking. It was quite snowy here, so not in the last week. But leading up to that, we talked about the Rad Power bike in the previous episode. Um, so I am getting out on the bike a little bit more than maybe I have previously. And I, I have a bike that I enjoy taking out on, on nice weather. Um, and now I'll just, I'll just wear it. I can't like the crash is what's going to destroy the watch when I inevitably, you know, make a mistake and wipe out. But I don't genuinely think like maybe if we're talking like really gnarly, like mountain biking.
Unknown	Yeah.
James Stacey	Yeah. Um, but I think if you're running around on the road and, um, and, and such, I just feel like, the threshold, even with the concussive vibrations, I think the threshold is lower than what these watches have kind of been over engineered to fight. If you imagine the vibration of what it was to take off in a, you know, a Saturn five or whatever, or, you know, you see Rolex Daytonas that were driven on wrist for 24 hours at Lamont. Can you imagine the vibration in those cars is nothing compared to what, what is coming through your wrist on a, on a bicycle, right? Yeah. I mean, Andrew, I totally feel you because it feels wrong. It feels like you're shaking an egg and just waiting until it's enough force that it cracks or whatever. But I think it's something that you got to try and get your brain over and just wear them. I'm with Jason. I don't think... I would think maybe second about, yeah, something a little more fragile, a vintage watch, that sort of thing. But a modern watch, I think you're set. And especially some of these have shock ratings, right? So you could get watches that probably wouldn't even notice it.
Jason Heaton	Hey James and Jason, I have a quick question. How do you guys change a watch bracelet without scratching the case? I have a brand new Tudor Black Bay 58, the blue one. Thank you for the great review. I am looking to change the bracelet.
Frederik	to the native but I don't want to scratch the case. I've read somewhere some people use electrical tape. Do you guys do that? Do you have any tips, insights, tricks to the tools of the trade? Anything is greatly appreciated. This is Frederik from Denmark. Thank you for a great show and I look forward to hearing your reply.
Eric	Hi James and Jason. Eric here from Dresden, Germany with a question about springboard tools. So I have a cheap set of tools and those work fine for my Seiko 5 Sports but about a year ago I got my hands on a Tudor Black Bay 58 Navy Blue and putting it on a NATO was not a big deal but putting it back on the bracelet was a real workout and put me into a sweat because of those solid end links. So I did a few little scratches on the locks which is not a big deal but I won't do it again. without the proper tools. So do you have any recommendations? I don't want to spend like 200 euros just for those little tools. So maybe you have an idea. I want to do a kayaking trick next year and the Black Bay Onanator would be the perfect fit for the job. Other than that, thanks for having me on the show.
James Stacey	Bye. All right, Frederick and Eric, two very similar questions. Super cool. You guys are on the same wavelength. Also, both of you, congrats on the 58 Navy. That's a watch that just cannot, I cannot get out of my mind. That's a fantastic choice. Um, when I had that watch, it is a tough change for sure. I definitely recommend for both of you to buy spring bar pliers. So, uh, the ones I use are $90. So you're not up to 200 euros of, you know, you might be able to find a cheaper option. but they're sold by Esslinger. I'll put them in the show notes, of course. We've talked about it before. I think it was even a gift pick several years back, the Horafix watch. And this is kind of like the knockoff version of the Bergeron, which is more like $200, $250. And the nice thing about these is they have... Same as all the other ones, but for the money, you get tips that are... You get two tip sizes, one millimeter and 1.4 millimeter. And to do the The Tudor ones, you'll probably need the one millimeter and it gives you the ability to get right into that gap and squeeze the spring bar. I'll see if I can find a video about how to properly use a spring bar tool. In many ways, it's the opposite of how you might use another one where you're keeping the case stationary and bringing the bracelet into place and trying to finagle getting the two compression sides equal. Uh, the safest way to use these, especially when reinstalling the bracelet. So especially for, um, for Eric, for yourself is to keep the, um, end link and the spring bar in one place and depress the spring bar and slide the lugs over. So I pick up the case and slide it over. That tends to be a much safer option. And usually that means you can avoid some of the contact points that cause scratches because you're not coming straight down at the side of the lugs. you're kind of everything that could scratch is kind of on its own right now, uh, and locked in place. And then you're just sliding it on and making sure you can wiggle the two end points into their, into the hole. As far as removing when it's a brand's watch and something I have to photograph, I use like a nice thick, heavy packing tape. I'll take a piece of it and just kind of push it into the whole assembly of the back of the lugs. So to cover the bracelet, the lugs and everything. And then I use the sharp tip on the tool to puncture the tape, grab it. And then as soon as the, If you're talking about a tutor, the tolerances are so, it's so nicely made, but the tolerance is so tight that as soon as you have the spring bar pulled down, you can move it like maybe a half millimeter, a millimeter, and then peel the tape back and just pull the, the guide out of the way the end link out of place. That's how I would recommend it. But the, the, the trick with these, especially if we're talking Rolex and tutor, um, because you have these fine tolerances that don't work so well, where you set one side of the bar and then pinch the other side in. is to get one of these spring bar pliers. So this isn't an ad or anything for anyone wondering. I paid the full $90 back when I bought mine, and I use them all the time, especially because you don't want to send back a product, a loaner, with a big old gouge on the back of the lugs. It doesn't bother me so much when it's one of my watches, but it's not nice to do when you send a loaner back with a big scratch, especially when, in my case, usually I'm only changing the watch so I can take a stunt photo on a Graynado. Usually they don't need, you don't have any reason to change the strap on a loaner. So that's what I'd recommend and we'll put it in the show notes.
Jason Heaton	All right. Good question. I don't have anything to add on that one. Um, although I do, uh, I do highly recommend getting yourself a cheap loop or a pair of reading glasses cause it does help to kind of bring things into a little more focus. Yep. Next question is from Lars who has a question about, uh, watch a strap compasses.
Lars	And hello, Jason and James. Lars from Germany again. Big fan of the show and now a very happy owner of a Black Bay 58 in navy blue. Thank you very much for your input. I was able to pick one up during my last trip to Italy. But I've got another question for you. Is there a real benefit to a compass on a watch strap or are these just fancy gimmicks which do more harm than good? I know they can't replace a proper field compass but I was wondering, does the metal of a watch case affect the function of the compass? And does the magnetism of the compass affect the mechanical movement? They've been around for decades and I've seen you wearing some in the past. And so I'd be happy to hear about your experiences with them. Thank you very much and keep up the great work.
Jason Heaton	All right, Lars. Thanks for the question. Um, gosh, another black, another black, maybe blue. Wow. Yeah.
James Stacey	Amazing. Tudor. Get us, uh, get us on that program. It's us and Beckham.
Jason Heaton	Those little compasses. I've got a couple of those little clip on compasses for watch straps. I got one from Prometheus design works that slides over a NATO. I've got an old Sunto clipper that kind of slid on a little plastic one. I just think they're cool. They kind of look tactical. It's like they go well with wearing a NATO strap. You know, nowadays I don't find myself needing, you know, a compass on my strap when I'm walking around town. I'm pretty, pretty good at navigating without that. So for me, I think it's just kind of harmless fun, kind of a cool look. It's akin to wearing a dive watch or a NATO strap. I think it's sort of just lends a certain vibe or personality to the watch. Um, in, in the rare occasion when I've actually used the compass, which is very rare. Um, I haven't really seen any ill effects, uh, you know, by the proximity of the compass to the big steel watch. Um, so I'm not sure that there is any. You know, valid concern over, over the, that sort of orientation. Um, but that's just purely my anecdotal feedback. Uh, James, you've, you've been known to, to sport a compass on your strap every now and then. Have you noticed anything about that?
James Stacey	Yeah. You sent me one of the Prometheus ones. I really like it. And if I'm going on a hike somewhere that I don't know, especially a place that isn't like a loop trail. Yeah. I just like to have some indication. Yeah. Mostly this is just for fun and they are fun. That's what they're, that's what they're for. But I think in a pinch they work just fine. My guess is that if you're needing to use it for navigation, you'd be doing so with a map, you'd take the compass off of your strap, take a heading and then try and maintain the heading by using it on your wrist. That would be my, my guess in a pinch is how that would be used. I find it pretty handy on, like I said, in areas that don't really have loop trails or scenarios in which you have, um, uh, like you're in a city that you don't know. I love to know North, South, East, West in a city. And like, not everything's like Manhattan. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, you can end up in a city and have kind of almost no idea. I've also, um, I've also used it before where I know that an airport is the orientation of an airport. And to get to one part where I'm like, I know I need to get to the North end of the airport because that's what the pilots said when we landed the, you know, the connections are head North. And like, that makes sense for a pilot who has to know the orientation, but like, I feel like most people on the plane were like North, why didn't he say right or left? And, and you could, and I had it on my, I didn't have it on my strap. I had it in the, the Prometheus comes with a little like rubbery loop that you can just kind of feed through something and then pull it back on itself. And I had it on my, the handle for my 10 buck. Good idea. And I was able to very quickly just go like, all right, well North, I'll go that way. And it worked out. I mean like, that's a, that's a ridiculously specific scenario. So no, you don't need one of these. But for, say, $25 to $100, I think they, one, make a really fun gift. Marathon makes a really cool one that has a luminous heading bezel. Oh, yeah. So you can actually turn the... You know, the Prometheus one doesn't... You can't lock a heading in and be able to follow a direction, so you're not doing any kind of reckoning. Right. But the Marathon one is like $20 or $25 US and is super cool. But if your watch is magnetic, like you've got it magnetized by doing something that, you know, that got it magnetized, then yeah, it could absolutely throw the compass off. For sure. I mean, like that's how I typically test if my watches have become magnetized is I'll take the digital compass on a Garmin and just put it next to the watch. And if you start seeing the heading change, then you've got a magnetized watch. In some ways, that's almost a blessing if your compass is clearly off because it's telling you that you should spend the 10 bucks on the demagnetization tool and get that sorted out. So I wrote a guide on how to demagnetize your watch for Hodinkee. I'll put it in the show notes if that comes up, but otherwise I'm with Jason. This is kind of harmless, fun, a little bit of tactical, silly, childish role-play stuff, but I really like them and I think occasionally they could come in handy. I do like to have a compass in my bag and in this scenario, it's that Prometheus, which we can also put in the show notes. It's cool stuff. Yeah. All right. Next up, we've got a question from Trey about the Explorers Club.
Trey	Hey, James and Jason, this is Trey Hanson, a big fan of the show. And Jason really enjoyed reading Depth Charge. I was listening to the last Q&A episode and funny enough, I actually just bought a 40 foot sailboat and moved on to it in the Caribbean. And I'm located in Puerto Rico and have been cruising around since about May of this year, June of this year, actually. And I just got to say, you're both right. Owning a boat is really hard. But I did it because I wanted to start exploring more and I've really wanted to dive more as well. And this has just kind of been a dream of mine too. So Jason, I wanted to ask you real quick actually about your being a member of the Explorers Club. I was curious just generally what it's like being a member and if you could shine light on some of your experiences with the club and if you might have any advice for someone who's interested in exploring more and hopefully one day becoming a member in this evolving world of exploration. Top it off though, guys. If you ever want to come down, cruise around the Caribbean, hit me up. You can stay in the guest cabin. We'll have a good time. So thanks for answering my question in advance. See ya.
Jason Heaton	Trey, my ticket is booked. Consider us there. See you soon, Trey. That's incredible. Wow. You are living the dream. Congrats on the boat. Yeah. That's rad. Explorers Club. Yeah. So I think I joined in, I think it was about 2015 now, and I'm what's called a member national or MN is how they abbreviate it. And, um, you know, to be honest, I don't find it terribly useful, um, because of that, because I'm not based in New York and New York is where their historic and very cool headquarter building is and where they host most of their lectures and cocktail parties and events and book signings and things. And, you know, whenever I get to New York, I try to make a pilgrimage there and my, my membership card gets me free access. James, I know you and I went there once I gave you a quick tour and we had a drink at the bar.
Unknown	Yeah.
Jason Heaton	Lovely. So that's fun. And you know, you might bump into somebody, you know, well-known or something there and they've got a great library and just a neat place. So that said, you know, being based out here in Minneapolis, I just don't get much opportunity to take advantage of that and dues aren't cheap. So it's not really a financially prudent thing to do. Um, on the other hand, they do offer a couple of cool member publications. There are some great partnerships that they have with other member only clubs around the world. And, uh, some great brands. There's a partnership with Fjallraven that gets a pretty healthy discount on gear from Fjallraven and a few others. So that's been kind of fun to take advantage of, you know, the, the process for acceptance to the Explorers Club requires that you fill out an application and then you have to have a couple of existing members sponsor you and they have to write letters of recommendation on your behalf. And you know, to, to kind of become a full member, you need to kind of have a resume of your, exploration background or your exploits. And there's a kind of a, a sub category called the associate membership that doesn't require quite that extensive a resume, but, um, it allows you to gain access to the club and some of its, uh, some of its benefits, um, just under the guise of, you know, kind of supporting their cause and contributing money. And I managed to sneak in as a, as a full member, you know, years ago, Based on my writing that I'd done about exploration and adventures and then kind of varied past of, you know, mainly the, the shipwreck diving in the great lakes and things like that. And I'm, I was fortunate to have a couple of friends that were members who wrote letters for me. And, and to be honest, I think I've gotten a little bit cynical over the past couple of years, looking at the membership there, there tend to be a lot of, uh, what I like to say are kind of rich old white guys that have submersibles and rockets. Uh, you know, Jeff Bezos is, is a member and, and. a few others. But on the other hand, I have seen some positive trends there where they're trying to encourage more diversity and a younger membership, um, by offering scholarships and different programs. So, you know, I'm not ready to write them off yet. I think it's, I think they're headed in the right direction and I think they kind of continue to do some, some really good and interesting work. And, and if nothing else, it's a great way to kind of network with, with, uh, some pretty cool people. And as a member, you do get access to their, uh, their roster and email addresses and phone numbers and things for, for, uh, some, some very illustrious people that I've had the pleasure of exchanging, uh, emails with. So that's been, that's been fun. Um, certainly if you want more information, you can drop me a line, either send me a DM on IgE or, or you can, uh, write to us at thegraynadoatgmail.com and just ask a more specific question if you have one, but, uh, that's kind of it in a nutshell. So, uh, thanks for writing in and thanks for the invite. We're, um, We're sorely tempted to get down to the Caribbean and join you on your boat.
James Stacey	Yeah, that sounds lovely. All right. Next up, we've got a question from Ryan about serial numbers.
Ryan	Hi, James and Jason. This is Ryan from Kansas City. I'm calling with a question about serial numbers. I've been collecting for several years now, and I recently decided for the first time to sell one of my watches. And after listing it online, I quickly got several requests for serial number information. What's the serial number can I get? photos of the serial number on the watch or photos of the paper and authenticity. And I understand that people may want to cross-reference that info to verify production year or validate authenticity. But I was wondering what are the dangers of providing this information and if there's a cautionary tale to be told there. So enjoying the show and looking forward to hearing your thoughts. Thanks.
James Stacey	Hey Ryan, thanks very much for that question. That's an interesting one and I don't want to say that our answer is going to be holistic I think that people want to make sure that the serial number aligns with the date range. With that, you could give them with just a few digits. You wouldn't need the entire number. And obviously, you want a serial number that matches whatever paperwork comes with the watch. So that can also be a question and concern, but something that should really be relegated to a final sort of buying scenario, in my mind, someone who's committed to buying the watch and would just like the last few boxes checked. And then I think that the final thing is that it seems like the guidance online would suggest that you're taking pictures of your watch to sell it, or even just taking pictures of your watch in general, avoid showing the serial number because someone could use that to then take your pictures and then make a dummy sale. And they'd have the ability to then tell the person a real serial number. And then quite possibly your watch could be wrapped up in a scam because of the data that was out there. So I think it's one of those things that kind of like your address, you kind of keep it private until it's time. you wouldn't list a watch to sell it online and have this issue. But I don't know that there's necessarily a risk of telling an interested party the serial number of the watch. But you can always ask what their intentions are. If you've given them, you know, it's a V range serial, that should be enough if they're looking to date the watch or to make sure that it's correct to the specification. And then beyond that, it could just be part of an ongoing conversation. But my guess is people, when they spend a certain amount of money, want to make sure the watch isn't stolen, right? or has it been part of a police investigation?
Jason Heaton	That makes sense, Jason? Yeah, I think so. I mean, I think as you mentioned, Ryan, you know, a lot of serial numbers are tied to production dates. And if you say something's a 1972 Rolex, they just want to confirm that that's the case. But certainly the bigger danger is somebody using that serial number to create a fake sale, as James said. Just, uh, just be careful better to err on the, on the cautious side, I guess. And I think that you're right to question this.
James Stacey	Yeah. And the other thing I would say is when you're doing this one, you can just be upfront with people who are asking questions. If you don't understand why they need information, just say like, Hey, I don't sell my watches that often. Why do you need that? Yeah. And just see what they come back with. Or your worst case is you, you wasted 40 minutes or however long it takes them to write back. But best case you might, you might immediately lop off everybody whose goal is to do something below bar kind of shady. right? So I wouldn't feel too bad in that respect. Communication is key when you're selling a watch, especially something of value. Ask your questions up front, then you get less chance of being burned afterwards. If I can find any more sort of guides or explanations of this concept, I'll put them in the show notes. So Ryan, hit the show notes. I got one from Gear Patrol here that Zen wrote, which looks like a good piece that has some good information. And I'll see what else I can find for you when I make the show notes. So just dig in there. And if you need any more clarity, feel free to drop us an email, of course. Next up, we've got a question from Jeff about convenient bracelets.
Jeff	Hey guys, Jeff from Northwest Arkansas here. I love the podcast. Thank you for all you do. I've recently bought a Zelos watch. For those who don't know, it's an Asian micro brand that sells for about 500 USD. Their bracelets has both a micro adjust that is tool-less and a quick release option where you can easily swap out different straps without having to worry about scratching up the case or anything like that. I know that Vacheron offers the same type of deal with both a tool-less micro-adjust and a quick-release on their overseas models, but what do you think is preventing companies like Rolex, Tudor, Omega, Breitling, more of these mainstream companies from offering this, both tool-less micro-adjust and quick-release option? I know for me, it's made me want to wear my Zelos more than any of the other watches that I've got because of just the bracelet alone. Thank you very much.
Jason Heaton	Well, thanks, Jeff. Cool. Watch that Xelos. It's a brand we don't hear much about, but I think it makes some kind of neat stuff. A couple of things. I think the tool-less micro-adjust are kind of the floating clasp or the adjustable clasp. I think we are actually seeing that more and more with the bigger brands. Yeah, definitely Rolex. Rolex, for sure. Omega. Dotson has offered for quite a few years, actually. Tudor, of course. The Pelagos is well known for that.
James Stacey	And I think even some Seikos you can... I mean, my Breitling Aerospace from 20 years ago had a spring set buckle. Yeah, right. So it would flex with your wrist. So I think it just depends on the watch and the cost of the watch, right? These can be kind of expensive things. I agree. Oh, the other thing I think with Rolex, if you're talking about not having quick release, I think Rolex has been pretty clear about this, or at least in the way they operate, they don't expect you to take your watch off the bracelet. Oh, yeah. They made a perfect watch... From their perspective, they made as good a watch with as good a bracelet as possible for the price point. and what they sell it for, and they expect you just to wear it like that. I don't think they think about people really swapping stuff. That's true. If you buy a Daytona, you can't ask to buy the Oysterflex as well. You have to buy the one that comes with the Oysterflex and it doesn't come with the bracelet. Oh, yeah. So Rolex is a tough scenario where I think their position, especially when you make a million watches a year, whatever it is with Rolex, only a small percentage of people are gonna be like us and wanna put them on a $15 strap or a $100 leather, right? Yeah. Everyone else is just... This is a perfect watch. They've figured it out. It's like, why would I change the wheels on my Mercedes? I love the wheels on my Mercedes, right? Yeah. Yeah. So I think that's the Rolex thing. Tudor, they offer different mounts. And I think in many cases, it's at least my understanding that you can buy the other ones from a dealer. So they must have some expectation of changing them. And then with other brands, it goes brand by brand. I think Vacheron is really smart in that they were selling a, you know, a very expensive product in the overseas and they just were able to build value in by making it possible where when you buy it, you get all three, you get the leather, you get the rubber, you get the bracelet. If you're buying a Royal Oak, you probably want the bracelet. And I think they've made the case for like, these are actually like sport luxury watches. So if you want to jump off the back of your yacht in the Mayan Riviera, like, you know, you can do that with the rubber strap.
Jason Heaton	Yeah. I think too, you know, there, there are a couple of different ways of, of doing quick release bracelets, uh, specifically. And I think, um, a couple of that I've liked, uh, IWC has done it for years and I think, you know, some brands will do it where the bracelet, the quick release function is actually built into the case so that when you remove the bracelet or the strap or whatever you have on there, you're left with kind of an empty space there without even any bars. So, you know, you can't. And if they don't have a holes drilled, you can't even put a spring bar. So you can't run your own NATO strap or something through it. Right. When I remember when the generation of Aqua timer came out, that, that it clipped onto a spring bar that just made a big world of difference. And I think a lot of people breathe the sigh of relief and said, ah, now I can use their excellent straps or I can run my own NATOs or put whatever else I want on there. And I think they do it well. Um, I think Vacheron does it well. And I think, uh, The other one that I wear regularly isn't a luxury watch, but it's the Garmin. I think their method of quick release is fantastic. Oh, it's lovely. You just slide a little, you know, spring loaded thing and it clicks right off. I think the kind I don't like, and I don't know what the Zelos has, but are the kind where you actually have the two little pins that stick up that you squeeze together to pull out like a captive spring bar. Cause I think then you have these little prongs that stick out and could get snagged on a sweater or something like that. And I just don't care much for, quick release spring bars. Because I think in my mind, I'm always thinking this is going to get snagged on a sweater, pull open, and then I've lost my watch. So yeah, interesting question. I don't know that that's come up much on, on our Q and A's, but yeah. No, I don't think so. Good one, Jeff. Next one up is from Cedric who has a couple of questions, but mainly about power reserve on watches.
Cedric	Hi, James and Jason. This is Cedric from Davis, California. You guys are doing such a great job on The Graynado. It's a pleasure every time I get that email and can listen to the podcast. I've got three short questions. First, Jason, how's the new novel going? Two, James, how's hosting Hodinkee Radio going? I'm quite enjoying that podcast as well, and I think you're bringing a nice new twist. Stephen did a great job, of course, but I'm enjoying those podcasts as well. And the third is more directly watch related. And that is, what do you think is a reasonable upper limit for power reserves? They're getting longer and longer. And, uh, you know, now a hundred hour, 120 hour, even, um, what do you think is sort of going to be the, um, standard upper limit for power reserves? All right. Thanks a lot.
Jason Heaton	Thanks for the question, Cedric. You're a loyal listener and you've submitted questions before, and we thank you for that. The new novel, it's going slowly, I will admit. I'm thinking that this winter it's going to ramp up, but what I really need to do is find some extended periods of quiet time. And it's just been a busy few weeks. And I think I keep telling Ghoshani that I need like a month-long retreat in a cabin or somewhere on an island, you know, a la Ian Fleming to like, you know, sit and just hammer out a few thousand words a day. I'm chipping away at it. So it's, uh, it's going well. James, he asked you about a Houdinki radio. How's that going for you?
James Stacey	It's hard. If I'm honest, if I can just be honest with everybody, you know, with our little crew here, it's a lot of work, um, putting it together. You know, um, what I do with, you know, what we do, Jason and I together, we've done so many times. We don't think about it. I don't need the video on. I know when Jason wants to say something and we don't have to talk over each other all that much. We both are like pretty locked in on the gear we use. So the audio quality is very repetitive in that I think, you know, we do a decent job of making sure the show sounds pretty good. And the schedule, you know, is pretty much locked in with Houdinki Radio. And there's no fault of anyone's own. Stephen did such a lovely job. It's a big kind of task to step into. And I found it pretty daunting and kind of there's a lot of pressure there. And I think all of that's good. Those are all good things, not something that I mean as a complaint. So it'll take some time to settle down and find a flow. We're kind of testing different ideas of show length and publishing schedules, things like that. So I appreciate that you're giving it a try. You know, it's tough when a show changes host and format. You know, Steven, the previous format for the show was much more interview based and with people outside of the space. And that's just even strength and wouldn't be to mine. I wanted to make something a little bit more like the types of podcasts I like to listen to from media outlets where it's their their, you know, staff sitting and talking over recent stories and developments and stuff like that. So it's a, it's an entirely different beast than, uh, than what we do with, uh, with TGN, which is, you know, it's just, we very seldomly have a wrinkle, uh, to try and negotiate with, uh, with this show. We're just, it's old hat, which is nice. And the, what was the third question, Jason?
Jason Heaton	Uh, Cedric wanted to know about, um, kind of where watch brands are now with power reserve. He, he was wondering what kind of the upper limit of power reserves might be. And I, I think a better question might be, what should the lower limit of power reserves be? I think for, for a long time, we saw kind of the standard at a 28 24s with what, what do they come with? Like 38 hours of power reserve, which isn't, isn't a whole lot when you compare that to something like the, some of the, I don't want to say entry level, but some of the affordable. swatch group stuff from Tissot and Hamilton and Longine that offer 80 hours now, um, with the Powermatic 80, uh, movements that they're using. And I think that that's a nice, a nice power reserve that takes you through what, you know, three full days off the wrist. Um, and I'm not, this is coming from, from me who I, I've, I've never really cared much about power reserve. I've always been okay. Picking up a watch, giving it a couple spins of the crown and popping it on, but I will admit, you know, I've got a Blancpain that has, you know, a hundred hour power reserve. And then, and then, uh, I think that Aquastar Deepstar, the chronograph that has over 70 hours. And it is refreshing when you, when you aren't expecting a watch to be keeping time to pick it up a couple of days later and have it still running. Um, yeah, I don't know. What do you, what do you think? Is that important to you?
James Stacey	I don't think it's super important to me, but I will say that it is, it's a nice surprise when I'm, uh, you're wearing the SPB, which is 70 hours of power reserve. And if I put that on and then I take it off for a day or whatever, and I go pick it up, it's still running, and you're kind of like, oh, that's kind of nice.
Unknown	Yeah.
James Stacey	Yeah. One less thing to deal with. I've never really been bothered by the 40 hours, but it's clear that this is a value thing that brands have decided people are buying, the longer power reserve. And as long as it doesn't come with a detriment to timekeeping. So you have to understand, especially if you're dealing with a watch that has two barrels, you're going to have, typically speaking, more torque when they're fully wound. and then a settling where it's a more stable torque curve in the middle, and then less torque at the end. So more means your watch would conceivably run faster. And then at the end of the power reserve, it's going to run a bit slower. Lots of brands will tell you that it's say 120 hours of power reserve. And the actuality is, is it's more than that, but they're using a system that helps buffer the top and the bottom away like that. I believe that's something that Blancpain does with some of their really lovely movements. But I would say that the, I would say it looks like we're moving towards 70 to 80 on a lot of watches. And then I guess probably something like 120, like what we see with the Oris, the five day is probably on the upper limit. And then once you're beyond that, then you're into, you know, things that might even have more than two barrels, you know, And then you're into pretty advanced watchmaking at that point, not so much the commercialized level that we tend to cover on the Grenado, but I would say probably we're looking at where it used to be more like 40 to 60. I think we're seeing more like 70, 80 and 120, which is great. I mean, it doesn't hurt to have more ever, right? Right. You know, some of the, you have to look at the specs, you know, this is the, this is where I get a little bit nerdy, where it's one thing to have a fit, a bigger spring. So you have a larger power reserve. It's a different thing to go from four Hertz to three and a half Hertz or three Hertz. And by dropping the rate, you get a longer power reserve, but of course you have lower levels of precision at that point. Yeah. So you just look into the metrics of the movement. If they're maintaining the four Hertz rate, then I think it makes more sense. And this is what you see in many of the ETA ones that have the 80-hour power reserve is they operate at a lower rate. At that point, you get to choose kind of what's more important to you. And the nice thing is, is the absolute default, the ETA 2824 or the Miyota 9015, very good at about 35 to 40 hours. Great movement can be very accurate. So as long as we're moving above that, I'm all for it.
Jason Heaton	Cool. Always good to hear from you, Cedric. Should we take one more?
James Stacey	Yeah, let's do one more. We got a question from Jennifer about Press Strips.
Jennifer	Hi James and Jason. This is Jennifer from Missouri and my question for you is related to the business end of watch marketing. As the two of you are an integral part of the marketing engine being content creators, testers, wearers, do you feel that in the post-COVID world marketing budgets for major companies will go back to or should be spent on things like brand trips or big trade shows. When we've seen that in the COVID world, perhaps a lot of that isn't necessary. I'd be interested in your take from both a selfish perspective as the content creator, and perhaps if you were the executive director of marketing for Oris, let's say, what would you do? Thanks so much.
James Stacey	All right, Jennifer, that's an interesting question. Jason, where, where do you land on this? What do you think, uh, what do you think we're going to see in the next kind of generation of watch content concerning trips and shows and that kind of thing? The show thing has been a fight even without COVID.
Jason Heaton	Yeah. Right. Yeah. I think we're seeing kind of a shift in the business. I think, um, I started to feel like the days of kind of the, the big press trips that you and I have both been privileged to go on in past years are kind of over for the most part. I feel like the trend is, more towards high value, smaller attended, smaller attendance venues, um, and kind of more, you know, exclusive opportunities or strategic sponsored content type things from, from different brands. On the other hand, I have just observed on, on Instagram, um, a few press trips that have actually started ramping up again. I'm not sure if that's going to slow down again with, with some of the COVID news we're hearing in the, in the world these days. But, uh, you know, I, I, I don't know. I mean, I think, you know, the, the trend also with trade shows has been similar. A lot of brands want to go their own way and, and kind of do their own little tailored brand specific things, or kind of regroup with a smaller bunch of brands in a specific location. But, you know, in terms of where they spend their budget, I mean, some of these trips, they just have to cost a fortune. And I think that that money could be spent differently. I mean, I think, you know, the world is different than it was 10 years ago when I was kind of getting into it and. Um, you know, flying to, to Iceland with five journalists to, for a watch introduction might not be happening much anymore. Um, they might opt to do something like a sponsored content piece with that same money in a very specific, uh, press outlet, um, with some high, high quality video and maybe a celebrity or two or something like that. So. That's just my kind of armchair approach. I've stepped away from the game a little bit in the past couple of years, but that's sort of what I observed from a distance. How about you? What do you think of this?
James Stacey	Yeah, Jennifer, I think that's an interesting question. And I think we are at a time where it's worth asking the question, but I don't know that I can offer you a lot more than predictions. From my personal standpoint, I think so much of the watch stuff can absolutely be done without any travel. Here's my guess is that all of these companies will want to put their foot back on the gas immediately. And it'll depend on what the response is. So if you get burned due to a health issue, that's that's going to be one issue that may come up. It could absolutely come up, you know, a super spreader event. That's a watch trip somewhere or a car trip or whatever it is. I think the other side of it is they'll see if people actually want to travel. And I think there'll be you're going to run the whole gambit the same way that you see anybody's reaction to the pandemic, whether it's they don't believe that it's real all the way to I don't really want to go outside my house anymore. I think that the long term might take a little bit of while for the dust to settle with people saying like, hey, I don't really want to go do this trip. Can you just send me the watch and I'll take some pictures of it or send it to my photographer and my office in New York or whatever it is? Right. But I don't think that we're going to see it return in the same way that we did. And then the show thing, I think, is a whole different conversation and one that I'd be keen to have for sure, in that I think we're going to see brands go real deep back into the shows. I think that the instability from COVID is going to make traditional brands respond in a traditional fashion. And we'll see brands want to continue to do, whether it's solo shows like what Braymont has done and what Omega did just previous to the pandemic, or kind of renewed interest in being part of a Watches and Wonders. And I think as long as the media is keen to cover these shows, the shows will grow. So if they can convince people to come to Switzerland and be in hopefully a very well-ventilated space and touch all the same watches that everyone else touched and be around coffee cups and everything that might worry some people, and probably should, then I think the shows will continue. But I think we're at the point now where we'll start seeing that wave build. I don't think we're seeing it crest. And I don't think we will for maybe even a couple of years, if that makes sense. Yeah. That's a neat question though. Um, cause it's something that Jason, you and I talk about quite a bit is like, do you, do you even want to go on a trip anymore?
Jason Heaton	Yeah. Right. I mean, I think the, the, the luster of, of press trips was wearing off even a few years ago because more for personal reasons.
James Stacey	You've been on all of them.
Jason Heaton	Yeah. And I think, um, There's a, it leads to a, I would say in my opinion, a lack of originality of content because you know, you go on a trip with members of 10 other publications and then a few days later, um, all of those same publications have exactly the same story with photos from exactly the same perspective, et cetera. And it sort of waters down what could be a really intriguing product launch or, or experience. Um, so I'd rather see kind of tailored, personally created or more original types of experiences with watches.
James Stacey	But yeah, and I think, you know, to answer the second side of Jennifer's question, let's say we were in charge of a brand like Oris. Oris isn't known for doing giant press trips. They do pretty focused things with a relatively small group of people that know the brand and understand it and have an audience and that sort of thing. And that includes this kind of ski trip they typically do around January, which gives you about a half a day of recreation. And then the rest of the time, you've got chances to see some new products. Some of it comes out immediately. Some of it comes out later. I actually think it's a pretty clever format. Even that, if I was Oris, I would be trying to think of a way to make it smaller and more specific. And I think you could absolutely try and preempt some of the stuff that Jason listed, where you have the same photos or similar photos from the same location, from the same Instagram, the same kind of flood of stories from the same little thing. I think all of that is great. I think it's a little bit more special when you divide that kind of up and spread it out. And I don't genuinely know, Jason, my guess is you don't either. I don't know which would be cheaper. Yeah. It's probably functionally and logistically, it probably makes sense to bring 15 people to one place, have them all see it. It's more simple that way, rather than breaking that up into a thing for Jason and I to do local to where we are, and a thing for someone else to do local to where they are, and the watch being loaned around. And at that point, you're just really loaning the watch, trying to ensure that somebody has a whole experience with it is a whole different challenge. So that's an interesting one. I think the way that AORUS does it makes sense. They also make it readily available if you want to borrow a watch. And that's not the case with a lot of brands. You can write PR. This is something people might find surprising. It's like, I can write PR for a company and they'll go like, we don't have any of them. And, or, or we're not quite right. You know, the watch is announced, but because it's not actually hitting stores for six months, we don't have any of them. And you go like, so it's just pickup photography, just the stuff that you guys shot. And like, it's almost never good photos. Right. So The access to the actual final product is the thing that I care about the most these days. The ancillary benefits of going on these trips, you know, there's some good networking options. It's always nice to see the people from the brand and stay on their radar and such. But the pandemic has really made me a hermit when it comes to the way that I prefer to work. I have my desk. I have my microphone. I have a place where I take very repeatable, I think, good looking watch photos. And I think the only way where the value would really swing towards the trip is if we went back to something like a Baselworld where I could see 10 brands in a day maybe, eight brands, whatever it is, get really good pictures of each one. And then you're talking about a year's worth of borrowing watches and shipping watches and the rest of it, all done in a week. And that still makes sense to me if you want to cover new product. It's probably way too long of an answer, wasn't it?
Jason Heaton	Well, but it's an interesting topic. And I think we don't often talk about the business side of watches. And I think a lot of people are curious about it. So yeah, it'll be interesting to see what the next year or two hold for us.
James Stacey	Yeah. And I mean, if this is a topic that people, if you guys want to hear more about the background stuff, the kind of like, I would think we'll look almost more like the logistics of how things come together. We can, we can, you know, make that something that we chit chat more about in the future. But I think as it stands for now, I'm pretty happy to stay home as much as possible. There's obviously cases in the job where you don't, that's not always what's possible. Uh, but I I'd be okay with just having to watch a show up with FedEx and go home with FedEx. That'd be okay. Yeah. Right. Certainly for the time being with everything just remains unstable. You think you've got a handle on it and then it's, it's different or there's a new thing or whatever.
Jason Heaton	All right. Well, good hour and a half, a good, uh, I don't know how many questions we got through there, but, uh, upwards of a dozen. Yeah.
James Stacey	Yeah, thanks very much for sending in your questions. And we've got a handful more that we'll tackle towards the end of December or, you know, possibly an episode that comes out early January. Next week, we'll probably announce our kind of holiday schedule. We're going to take a couple weeks off just to hang out. So we'll probably do more like three episodes in December and then start up again in January. A huge thank you to everyone who's hopped on the supporter program. You know, as always, thank you so much for listening. You can subscribe to the show notes via notes.thegrenado.com or you can check the feed for more details and links. You can follow us on Instagram. That's at Jason Heaton, at J.E. Stacey, and you can follow the show at The Grey NATO. And if you're curious about supporting the show, you want to get the NATO, the sticker, the rest of it, visit thegrenado.com and click support. And finally, if you're enjoying the show, please subscribe and review wherever you find your podcast, you know, music throughout a siesta by Jazza via the free music archive.
Jason Heaton	And we leave you with this quote from the American author, Bryant H. McGill, who said, curiosity is one of the great secrets of happiness.

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The Grey NATO – 173 – November Q & A

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