The Grey NATO - 172 – Caves, Wrecks, And Glaciers With Underwater Photographer Becky Schott
Published on Thu, 02 Dec 2021 06:00:12 -0500
Synopsis
The podcast discusses a recent episode featuring an interview with underwater photographer and explorer Becky Kagan Schott. Becky shares her adventures and experiences diving in extreme environments like glaciers, underwater caves, and shipwrecks in the Great Lakes. She talks about the challenges of cold water diving, the specialized equipment required, and her approach to lighting and framing her underwater photography. The hosts also discuss new product releases from Doxa watches, recommendations for books and movies related to adventure and diving, and the importance of driving with headlights on at night.
Links
Transcript
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| Jason Heaton | Hello, and welcome to another episode of The Gray Nato, a loose discussion of travel, diving, driving, gear, and most certainly watches. This is episode 172, and it's proudly brought to you by the newly formed TGN supporter crew. We thank you all so much for your continued support. Jason, how are we doing? Busy shipping out there? Oh, great. |
| James Stacey | Yeah, yeah. It's the, it's the, The Heaton Fulfillment Center here. It's going well. I mean, man, what a difference a week makes. Just last week we were kind of kicking this off and this week it's just what a success. |
| Jason Heaton | I'm just blown away. The numbers are way more than I expected. Honestly, I'm kind of floored and I haven't been doing any of the shipping, but I'm kind of tired. You know, it's been a busy season and I can get emotional pretty easily and to see the support that came in was pretty humbling and has been a real bright spot in a cloudy season. I gotta say, just a huge thank you. Surprisingly, I thought we bought way too many NATOs. It turns out we probably bought the correct amount. Yeah. So we still have some left. Bundles are still going. You can get a NATO and a sticker if that's what you want. If you don't, there's the $5 a month option. Basically, you can go to thegraynado.substack.com or even just thegraynado.com, and you'll see a button for support. If you happen to miss last episode, this is a new platform we've launched to kind of self-fund the show, and it's gone off really well. We're super impressed by it and by the response. We have kind of three tiers, I guess. You can just continue on as you are. You'll still get four episodes a month. We're not taking anything away. If you'd like an extra episode, that'll be the Q&A moving forward, and we have more than enough supporters to do a pretty solid Q&A each month. So I'm excited to hear how that works out. That's $5 a month. And then if you'd rather go all the way and get the signed TGN Grey NATO from UTA, that's $100 a year. And that will include, once you sign up, you'll get an email with a link, and you can decide between a 20 and a 22 millimeter strap. Both have a signed buckle. Both are grey. They look great. And that also comes with a, uh, a nice, uh, logo style sticker that you can put on a laptop or water bottle or whatever. And, uh, yeah, that that's basically, I mean, we, we talked a lot about it on the last episode. I'm sure we'll, we'll find a way to kind of include it in, in most shows moving forward, but a huge thank you to everyone. Who's gotten in on it. Uh, if you have any problems with your order or with that process or any of it, um, the great NATO at gmail.com, we can sort it out easily. Uh, we're customer service professionals at this point. |
| James Stacey | Yeah. And surprisingly, I mean, uh, uh, to my, to my, um, great joy. Uh, we haven't actually gotten a lot of emails with issues, just a handful of people that maybe ordered the wrong size strap at first or something like that. But, uh, been going smoothly and people are already getting straps. I've seen a lot of posts on Instagram and stickers. Yeah, it's, it's great. And like you said, it's, it's just been such a bright spot and so encouraging to see all of our loyal listeners and folks, you know, signing up to, to help us out here and, and, And we're just so pleased. So it's great. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. And that's, that's been my week. I mean, ever since, uh, I guess we kicked it off on Thanksgiving. I, I, I did manage to relax that day, but then after that I got to printing labels and packing up and, um, and then, and then I did a, I did a big, the big first FedEx run. Took its toll. Yeah. Loaded up a Giles, my little blue 1976 Land Rover headed off to FedEx. It's, it's near the airport here. It's down this long frontage road. kind of at the end of this, this long kind of lonely road. And I was, I was whipping down this road at about 35, which is close to max speed for that thing. And I'm starting to hear this whoop, whoop, whoop, howling sound. I thought, Oh, it's like an air leak somewhere. Like one of the windows has fallen open or something. So I let off the gas and it kind of went away. Then I gave it gas, gave, you know, started howling again, made it to FedEx, dropped the big load of packages off. And then on the way back, the noise got louder. And then as I pulled away from a stop sign, there was a, Uh, kind of a telltale clunk. I just lost all forward momentum, coasted to a stop and, uh, and it got it flat bedded. So now it's at, it's at my Land Rover shop expedition auto works here in, in the twin cities. And I'm waiting for a diagnosis, but I, I think it's something called the clutch release bearing. I just have a feeling I've done a little research and, and, uh, it's been kind of acting up lately. The clutch was on its last leg. So in a way I'm. I'm kind of thankful that it's in the shop and going to get that taken care of. And for all I care, they can keep it all winter because, uh, cause I've got a backup. I've got a different Land Rover. |
| Jason Heaton | One less thing to shovel around, I suppose. |
| James Stacey | Exactly. Yeah. And now I'm doing FedEx runs on the bicycle. I, uh. Oh man. You got better weather there than we do. Weather's been holding. It's, uh, you know, just above freezing, um, here still, you know, maybe hitting 40 these days and. So I bundle up and just throw, throw the packets. These are, these are not giant boxes. Um, so it makes it easy to throw it in a messenger bag and, and go a few miles down to the FedEx Dropbox. And that's kind of made a fun daily errand for me. We're getting, you know, still a steady stream of, of requests and strap orders here. So that's, uh, that's been my week and it's been, it's been a lot of fun, good exercise, very fulfilling. I feel like I've done something every day and it's great. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah, that's awesome. Yeah, when the holiday weekend kind of kicked off here, you know, it's not technically a holiday in Canada, but being that kind of my main client is Hodinkee, they were closed for a few days. So I ended up with some actual time off. I'd kind of preloaded enough of the work to take those days off. And we got a dumping of snow here, but just the day before we got the most of it, my wife and I went out to Rockwood Conservation Area, which is kind of near Guelph. It's about an hour, an hour's drive. from central Toronto and just this really nice kind of rocky, craggy sort of walk through the woods and spruce and birch and highly recommended if you're in that area and you want to do something, I would say, unless it's really snowy, it's maybe an hour to do the loop. So it's not, it's, you're not asking a lot. It'd be a good one to do with family that maybe don't, don't love hiking or don't go out a whole ton. Um, it's in a little bit of a depression, so you might get some shelter from wind, but there's also some open spots. It's kind of a loop around, um, a lake, uh, that has some really rocky sections that are, um, kind of like these kind of eroded pothole shapes. Uh, so yeah, we had a good time doing that. And, uh, and that, that was most of the weekend. Other than that, I just tried to rest, uh, did a bunch of reading. Oh, the other thing, I only bring this up cause it's, it just confounds me. And, uh, And I don't really know how to soapbox at a high enough level for this, because it's something I'm seeing a lot around Toronto and it's not something I saw around Vancouver. And Jason, maybe you see this or maybe it's just, it's a Toronto thing. I don't know. But I drove back from Guelph, like after dark, we stopped at a fixed gear brewery and had a beer and a pizza. And then we drove back and it was at, you know, at sunfall. And there's a lot of people driving, like, and not just on normal roads. We saw some of that too, but on like, 400-series highways, major highways, driving with their lights off. Really? Like at dusk after dark? I think I saw nine cars. No, this was in the dark, full-on dark. |
| Unknown | Oh my gosh, what? |
| Jason Heaton | And so we're talking, I saw a Bell television, Bell telephone, like a modern, so that would be a Ford Transit E-Connect. So like a modern car that has the light switch with a setting that says auto. Yeah, right. I saw another guy in like maybe a last generation Ford F-150 pulling a trailer. Yeah. And the trailer's lights also weren't on. Oh, wow. Yeah. So he's pulling like a boat or maybe a flat trailer, like with a four by four on it or something. And then just on his running lights. Wow. Wow. And like on some cars, your running lights include an element on the rear, but a lot of cars, at least in Canada, the rules might be a little bit different in the States. It might be one of those things where it's, it's a slight change, but in Canada, some cars, the running lights are literally just a really dim setting on your headlights or some accessory lights on the front. |
| Unknown | Yeah. |
| Jason Heaton | I don't, I want to believe that there's nobody with the natural intelligence to really enjoy TGN that is also driving around with their headlights off at night. |
| Unknown | Yeah. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. But if you're in your car, any time of day, turn your headlights on, it's not good. You're not hurting anything. |
| Unknown | Right. |
| Jason Heaton | If it's daytime, they're not going to be bright enough to bother anyone. And at night they're keeping you alive. |
| James Stacey | And headlights last a lot longer than they used to. I mean, I think some people used to think, oh, I'm, I'm conserving the bulb or something. I don't want to have to replace it. You'd think they'd notice that they can't see. Right. |
| Jason Heaton | I mean, at some point you need headlights to see. People are flashing crazy at them. I'm flashing crazy at them. The one guy, the guy in the bell truck, I gave him the, the aux beams. Yeah. Yeah. 12,000 lumens or whatever through his back window. Like, just turn your lights on, dude. You're in a vehicle that already has a compromised, you know, rearward visibility. Turn your lights on. Yeah. It's crazy. I'm sure I'll trim a bunch of this out. Cause I don't like, this is just a rant that doesn't need to happen, but it put me in a bad mood just driving home thinking like, this is the easiest thing your car is built to, to, to make sure that other people can see it. Yeah. Right. And you're just driving around in the dark. |
| Unknown | Yeah. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. All right, before I get too wound up about the way people drive in this, uh, you know, God forsaken part of Ontario, how about a wrist check? |
| James Stacey | Yeah, let's do it. Um, mine, um, I chose something I haven't worn in quite a while and, uh, I, I picked it out because of, uh, partly because of, uh, our guest on today's show, which we'll get to in a minute here, but I'm wearing a, an old, um, Seiko. This is a reference 7002 with a Pepsi bezel. I've had less than a year. I actually got this from, from a guy in the Philippines who, um, This is one of the Japan market specific ones and he's had it for a long time and he's a bit of a collector. And I think I'm still trying to track down that watch that I had when I was back in high school. And this is about as close as I can come from roughly the same era. And so it's got a nice faded Pepsi bezel, automatic movement with the lollipop sweep hand and the blocky markers on this one, date only. And I've got it on the gray NATO TGN signed buckle 22 millimeter strap. fittingly for today. So perfect for a Seiko. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. Perfect. Built for it. Yeah. What about you? You know, I had originally, um, had planned to wear the SPB 143 for the same reason because of our, our illustrious guests. I'm so excited for this chat by the way. But in the end, this morning I got up to, to record and, um, Doxa had dropped the new whole range of the new 600 T. So they'd done that special edition. We chatted about it previously with time and tide, which was the titanium one with the blue Pacific. Yeah. blue, and now they've done the whole range and it's steel, so they're $1,500. And I think this might be almost immediately the brand's most appealing watch because it's such a price cut from a 300. It's even a little bit less than a 300T. And the T is that confusing one where it's less, but it seems like it has higher specs. The one you really want is the more expensive one that's almost $2,500, the 300. I think this might be the one to have, you know, it's a 40 millimeter steel watch, 47.6 lug to lug 14.5 millimeters tall. There's a couple of different bezel options, pretty much every color you can imagine. I think this is a super tempting piece. It's brand new and it's end of year. So I don't know when I might be able to get one in, but I'll, I'm going to send the email and do my best. So we can actually talk about it on the show, um, at, at, you know, in more detail. Uh, but I'm excited for this one. I think that the man, the shark Hunter one looks incredible. with the steel bezel. You can get a ceramic bezel insert as well, which might be too shiny. Who knows? Yeah. Yeah. Maybe if I can get one of each in to compare in photos, that would be fun. But, uh, anyways, I saw this come out. I'm always excited when there's a new docs out. I really liked the direction they're currently kind of on, especially with the 600 and price points under $2,000. Like at $1,500, that means you're, you, you got to consider this now against something like a, like an SPB. Right. Right. Right. And it's a better movement. better is a strong term, it's going to be likely a more accurate movement. Yeah, which is kind of everyone's I it doesn't bother me that much, certainly not enough to slow me down on my love of the of the SPB and you get the big power reserve. So maybe that's more important. But you know, this is a Swiss automatic has a nice date at three, a bunch of different versions definitely worth checking out. But in honor of that coming out, it kind of put docs in my brain. So I'm wearing the the 350th anniversary see Rambler on TGN NATO. |
| James Stacey | Oh, perfect. Yeah, nice. You know, looking at the 600T, I'm looking at the Caribbean with the blue dial and then the blue ceramic bezel insert. Yeah, that's kind of sick. And I think with that case shape. Pelagos-y. Exactly. With that case shape, if you're looking for a more of a bargain, you know, kind of Pelagos type watch, this would be pretty cool. And it's actually arguably more unique. It's kind of funky and that docks away. |
| Jason Heaton | And the Aubrey era stuff kind of feels really cool now because it's been long enough. |
| James Stacey | Yeah, yeah, yeah. This is finally a Doxa bracelet I can fully embrace. I think the original beads of rice, you know, from the old days were rattly and loose and nice and they kind of wore nicely and flimsy, but I never really warmed up to the modern version of the beads of rice. This one just completely avoids the beads of rice with the kind of a three link across. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah, like very flat. It's not even an oyster style. Almost brutalist. |
| James Stacey | Yeah, I think it looks great on that watch and that might be the way I'd I'd buy one of these is actually with the bracelet and then just throw a bunch of NATOs and other stuff on it. |
| Jason Heaton | So, yeah, I love, and I also just love that they're leaning into the color. You can do the aquamarine in four versions. You can do the diving star in four versions. Two of those versions are the difference between rubber or steel, but still, you know, Caribbean and for sea rambler, I think the sea rambler needs more orange. Don't you think? I agree. An orange hand. I agree. I agree. Other than that, I think they nailed it. I think the shark hunter looks incredible. |
| Unknown | Yeah. |
| Jason Heaton | And I really like, uh, I think the pro looks awesome too. I'd be really tempted by that pro. The nice thing about that pro, especially I think on with the steel bezel is it has that sort of, um, monolithic feel of like a Seiko monster and like a monster is going to run you $800 these days. Right. |
| James Stacey | True. Yeah. I mean, and, and for this, it's only a hundred dollar increase to get the bracelet. I mean, that'd be the way to go. |
| Jason Heaton | You have 140 bucks. Yeah. Definitely worth it. Yeah. Right. Right. Because the rubber is not going to be hard to find. There's lots of other options for rubber, but a fitted proper bracelet is going to be a nice thing. Yeah. Yeah. So I'm excited about these, actually pretty excited. This is something back when they came out, we chatted about hoping that they would expand this line into something that wasn't necessarily limited. I like that they went with steel. It keeps the titanium one special for the folks that got it. And I think it means that we might be able to see more limited editions in the future that are titanium with limited colors, which could be pretty fun too. But I'll put this in the show notes. It's new when we're recording this. By the time the episode comes out, it'll be a little bit less new, but a very cool thing and something I'm hoping to see in person soon enough. So if we get a chance to do that, we'll talk more about it in the future. You know what? I'm excited about this one. We recorded it a couple of days ago and I'm just so thrilled to be able to have this guest on the show. You want to get to it? |
| James Stacey | All right, yeah, today's main topic is, as advertised, a chat with Becky Schott. Some of you might know her as Becky Kagan Schott. She's a rock star underwater photographer, videographer. She's been diving all over the world. She's known for primarily for her shipwreck photography, but she's also done a lot of work with marine mammals and animals and cave diving and truck lagoon stuff. And I've I've met her diving in the great lakes and nowhere from that. And, uh, she just got back from diving inside glaciers in Alaska, which is when, when we caught up with her. I mean, I mean, this is just a, it's been a long time coming and we're really excited to have Becky on the show. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. And, and given her probability for cold water, like Jason said, even diving inside glaciers, which is just so wild. I'd never even considered that you could. It's a great story, man. I'm so pumped for this. And it's really cool because she recently became an ambassador for Seiko and has been promoting their kind of ice diver line, which makes a lot of sense because there aren't a lot of people out there, even among divers who are ice divers, but Becky's certainly the cream of the crop these days. To be clear, this isn't an ad. We just love Becky. You know, her and Jason, like Jason mentioned, had been on dives before. We love her work and we were thrilled when it turned out that she was keen to come on the show. She's a must follow. You can find all the details in the show notes for this episode at thegraynado.com. You know, but hey, Here's Becky, let's get to it. |
| James Stacey | All right, Becky Schott, welcome to the Graynado. It's great to have you on. |
| Becky Kagan Schott | Thanks so much for having me. It's good to be here. |
| James Stacey | This is a long time coming. As I mentioned to you earlier, we've had a listener, more than one listener actually write in and say, oh, you guys should have Becky Schott on TGN sometime. And, you know, to me, it was like, I should have done this a long time ago. I mean, we could have done it live on the back of a On the back of Yitka's boat somewhere out in Lake Huron or something, which would have been really cool. |
| Becky Kagan Schott | That would have been cool. Maybe, uh, maybe a little hard to get all the audio out there, you know, and, and dripping wet and, uh, just, we've got, we've got diving to do when we're out on the boats. |
| James Stacey | Yeah. True enough. True enough. I remember years ago I was at, uh, must've been the Great Lakes Shipwreck Preservation Society show, uh, at some point. And I think you were there speaking. And I remember having heard your name and I sat in on one of your talks and it was really interesting. I didn't know you then and we hadn't been on a dive boat together yet, but kind of going back to, to where it all began for you. If you can just give us a little bit of your, your background, how you got started, maybe how you got started diving and then where it kind of went from there. |
| Becky Kagan Schott | Sure. Um, so I mean, diving, gosh, the water has always been my passion and I knew I wanted to do something. in the water from a very young age. I mean, from the time I was 10 or 11 years old, I was just fascinated by what was below the surface of the waves. I loved, uh, aquariums and fish. And I was very fortunate because, um, on a trip, I grew up in Pittsburgh and on a trip to Florida with my dad, when I was 12, the hotel we were staying at had a dive shop. And I immediately saw this and begged him to let me try scuba. And, uh, he, he let me do it. And Honestly, that was 26 years ago and I haven't stopped since. I have fallen, forgive the pun, but just deeply in love with diving and it has been my entire life. I became an instructor when I was 18. I started cave diving when I was 16 because Florida has a lot of underwater caves and really, really amazing places. And diving has taken me to places I never I never dreamed it would take me. I mean, I got into it because I loved sharks and turtles and the ocean and reefs. And now I find myself in the really extreme environment, sometimes with absolutely no life, you know, like ice diving or in the Great Lakes diving shipwrecks or, um, I mean, I still do a lot with marine life, but I really love freshwater environments too. And, and the more extreme environments, because these are places that nobody's going to. And I absolutely love exploration and, and photographing something, something new and exciting that nobody's ever seen before. |
| James Stacey | Yeah. I remember, you know, having watched kind of from afar, the arc of your career, not, not to the very beginning, I didn't know you back then, but, but to kind of see you, um, I remember your kind of earlier notoriety for lack of a better word was in, was in videography and caving and distinctly warmer conditions than, than what I'm seeing you do most of nowadays. Um, you started out doing mainly video work, right. And, and, and the cave stuff. How did that come about? |
| Becky Kagan Schott | I still do a lot of video work. So I freelance. My husband and I own Liquid Productions, which is our production company. And we do we do a lot of different things. So, I mean, we did start out by doing mostly underwater documentaries. So and we still do. We still shoot for National Geographic and Discovery Channel and Red Bull and basically whoever needs underwater footage for a documentary. And sort of our first chances in that industry came around because of the diving that we were doing, um, because we were specializing in doing underwater caves, um, which very few people were doing, you know, at the time and being, being able to go into these really harsh, extreme environments with absolutely no light. And, you know, obviously the safety aspects of it and working with the team, um, you know, we, we could deliver on that. We could, we could safely go into an underwater cave and for, for no lack of better words, stay alive. and produce really captivating underwater video. So we started getting hired to do underwater cave exploration shoots and and go out on some really interesting projects all over the world from the Bahamas to Mexico to Florida, Texas, some really exciting cave shoots. And then I mean, my my personal passion has always been underwater photography, but it's just a lot harder to make a living doing photography 100 percent and then narrow that niche down to underwater photography. It's even harder. Yeah. So I've been really fortunate in the last, you know, probably six or seven years that my underwater photography has almost taken a first seat to the underwater video that we do. |
| James Stacey | Did caving then logically lead to shipwrecks? I mean, there's, there's some, there are some obvious, um, skills crossover when it comes, uh, moving one to the other with, with some differences, but with your start in the cave diving, then you moved into, to shipwrecks, would you say? And then, and then to the great lakes, how did that all of transpire? |
| Becky Kagan Schott | Yeah you know it was actually it was pretty fluid so um so uh we I did when I was 13 we moved to Florida so shortly after I began diving and so that's when I kind of picked up on cavern and cave diving because at that age I didn't have a lot of money to spend to go out on boats and the the Florida Springs were either free or pretty inexpensive so that's where I why I kind of found myself going into cave diving. And that was my first introduction into technical diving. So wearing double tanks and using more gear and a lot more planning was involved. And then after several years, maybe five or so years of cave diving, I wanted to dive into deeper caves. But to do that, I needed to use mixed gas or tri-mix. So it's a mixture of helium, nitrogen, oxygen. And my instructor did not want to teach in the caves. And he's like, well, we're going to go out to like Fort Lauderdale and we're going to dive some of the deep wrecks off of Fort Lauderdale, Florida. And at the time I wasn't really that into shipwreck diving. I was kind of like, eh, there are piles of, you know, chunky metal on the bottom of the ocean. I can't make out the bow or the stern sometimes, you know, but okay, cool. I need to get this class done. Well, the wrecks that I had been diving in Florida were, yeah, there were artificial reefs. They, they weren't that exciting. But when I got my first taste of what real shipwrecks were, like shipwrecks that went down in storms or collisions, and they still had artifacts on them. And then I realized that they have so much history. It all just sort of hit me at once. And I absolutely fell in love with shipwrecks. And that kind of led me into getting into rebreathers, because here I was standing on the back of the boat when I was 24, 25 years old, wearing double steel 95 tank with with, with several deco bottles. And then my camera, it was like, you know, here I was like 120 pounds and like my knees were shaking and like, it was hard to stand on the back of the boat. And I saw these guys wearing rebreathers. This was probably around 2006. And I thought to myself, all right, I need one of those it's time. So that's when I transitioned into diving rebreathers mainly for, you know, the technical diving I do with, with shipwrecks and, and also underwater caves. Yeah. Then after that, I found myself in truck lagoon shooting my first documentary, uh, which is pretty amazing because I was like 20, 26 years old and I got offered by discovery channel to go to truck lagoon Micronesia, which is one of the best places in the world next to the great lakes to dive shipwrecks. And it just blew my mind diving, diving those wrecks. I really, really fell in love with the history and the human elements and, and all of that. when it comes to shipwrecks. |
| Jason Heaton | So speaking of the human element, I'm curious because I think I probably probably have read more about scuba diving than I've dove myself. I was fortunate enough to do quite a bit of diving. You know, I learned in cold water and then have done some tropical diving and some some stuff in sort of some far flung areas, but never in caves. And I think at least from the impression I get reading everything from, you know, shadow divers to Daniel Lenihan's book, is that the cave thing is That's kind of the peak in terms of the danger and the level of craft that's required. What kind of drew you to the cave besides that's what was available? And did you ever kind of get confronted by other divers saying like, you shouldn't be doing this or these are very dangerous for these sorts of reasons? |
| Becky Kagan Schott | Oh, all the time. I think since the time I was around 15 and I started diving in caverns and caves all the way up to today, people still tell me that that I'm crazy and I shouldn't be diving in some of these environments. And I have lost a lot of friends along the way. Um, so I'm, I'm not saying that they're not dangerous environments and it really takes a lot of training and dedication and baby steps to sort of work your way into doing those, those types of environments. Um, you know, if you don't like caves, they're not for everybody. I mean, you go, I never thought I'd like them, but I found myself at like Ginny Springs in North Florida. And what I thought would be a deep, scary, tight space, it wasn't that. It was exciting. It was sort of like an underwater obstacle course and the water's pushing out. And so you sort of have to do this like underwater rock climb to like pull yourself into the cave. And I really enjoyed the challenge of it and kind of pushing my own limits to see what I can do. Of course, I've had my share of of scary moments in these environments and I've survived them and you learn from them and you sort of debrief at the end and go, okay, what went wrong? You know, was it equipment problems? Was it something in my planning process? Was it a team member? Like, was it miscommunication? What, what happens that caused us, you know, that almost caused this, this accidents. And I mean, I've, I've had it all happen to me over the years. I've been left alone in caves because of miscommunications. I've, you know, had, Gas failures. I've had a lot of different light failures. I mean, those things I wouldn't consider, you know, too serious. But one of the big ones was obviously getting lost. We run lines in caves or there's permanent lines run in many well-known caves. And we were in a not so well-known cave maybe five or six years ago doing an exploration documentary. And the person we were filming left and he went to go explore. And we were on open circuit at the time. So you're, you're watching this gauge and you know, time is ticking away. And we were, we were pretty far from the, from the exit. And, um, we had to go like my, my other buddy and I were like, all right, it's, it's time for us to go. And I was, I was shooting the entire way in. And I, I was mad at myself because I made a huge mistake of, I personally wasn't paying attention to the navigation and the lines. And so I looked at him and I just put the camera down and I was like, I don't know the way out. I don't know. |
| Jason Heaton | Wow. Wow. Goodness sakes. |
| Becky Kagan Schott | It was probably one of the most terrifying moments of my diving career because I really didn't know. And I was really upset with myself because I know better. And that's one of the, one of the big rules of cave diving and how people get themselves into trouble. So, um, you know, usually when I'm on these shoots, I take a safety diver with me. You'll never see them in a lot of the photos or the video, but they're there with me because I've had so many little moments of, of just scary moments happen. uh, that I always want somebody just basically glued to me. So I appreciate those people that, that kind of hang out in the background that you'll never see, but they give me confidence and knowing that they're paying attention to the lines or navigation or can take the camera if I need to fix something with my equipment. Uh, but yeah, it's, uh, caves, caves are definitely dangerous environments, but, um, ice, in my opinion, ice diving is way more of a dangerous environment than caves ever will be. |
| Jason Heaton | So with, with caves and with ice, do you figure that this makes you like when you're, when you're on, let's call it a normal dive, a dive in not frozen water or near frozen water with no overhead obstruction, maybe you're going to shoot a wreck that you've been on a few times. Do you, do you find that your brain always gets to the same point? It's this high performance point or their dives where you can actually like relax? I feel like if I had a run in in a cave, it would kind of elevate the way I saw or my brain measured diving forever. |
| Becky Kagan Schott | Yeah, I think because I've also done it so long, like I just sort of I snap into this mode the second I'm underwater. But I'm also I'm pretty hyper aware of my surroundings and everything that's going on around me, which you have to be because as a photographer and also obviously the life support comes first, like you're in an environment that humans should not be in. So the equipment and the life support has to come first. And then after that, the underwater pictures or, or video. So, you know, I'm down there and I'm paying attention to my equipment, the environment, the surroundings, my model, you know, what, what they're doing, their equipment. And it's just, it's not like a nervous thing. It's just more of just hyper aware of what's going on around me. |
| James Stacey | Yeah. I mean, I was going to mention when, you know, when I've seen you, um, kind of suiting up to get in the water, the, thought that comes to my mind and our discussion here reminds me is this idea of the term task loading, additional layers of complexity, because especially when you start adding in the cold water element of it, you've got your, your rebreather system, which has its own, you know, complexity to it. And you have, um, your, your exposure protection in the dry suit. And I think, you know, you're using a dry suit that has a, Um, a heating system in it. Um, and then you add the cameras and the lighting. I mean, there's, there's just so many layers of, of things that you have to pay attention to and could go wrong. And, uh, you know, when you moved from warmer water into kind of the, the, the, the dry suit, the cold water stuff, uh, did you, did you find that a big leap or was it kind of a logical progression or was it, was there a big learning curve for you with that? |
| Becky Kagan Schott | Yeah, a little bit of both. And you, you hit the nail on the head. It is a lot of task loading. You don't just. jump into this all at once and just take it all, you know, cold water, deep rebreathers, camera. Um, yeah, it's, it's, it is definitely a progression. And so, I mean, I'd been diving dry suits for probably over 10 years before I started doing cold water diving, like really cold water diving. Um, but when I did start, I mean, I think my first cold water trip was out to Lake Mead in Nevada of all places to, to document, um, a plane out in Lake Mead B24. And it was, it was about 50 degrees, which now I consider quite balmy. Uh, but I remember wearing so many layers and the dry gloves, and I felt like I couldn't move because everything was just so cumbersome. So it definitely was a learning curve there. And, and you have to, I had to spend time doing a lot more cold water dives to kind of figure out my dexterity with my hands and, and what was going to keep me warm in those environments. Um, so it does take a bit of, of tinkering. Um, and a bit of just, you just got to get in the water and keep diving and keep doing it and go, wow, you know, this didn't work. Let me change it for the next dive. And I've become quite, quite a gear nerd, quite a gear head. I love my cameras. I love my, I love my dive gear. I love my equipment. I love my rebreather. And, um, you know, it is, it is fun to tinker. So, uh, yeah, it was, it was a bit of a progression, but then then moving to the rebreather, you know, same thing. Now you're wearing a really technical piece of equipment that you have to really pay attention to. And we use checklists to make sure that you're setting everything up correctly and that nothing is, um, you know, hopefully nothing is going to go wrong when you're in the water. But again, like doing something cold and deep, like in the great lakes, um, you know, it also requires additional bailout bottles or a more open circuit scuba tanks that you clip onto you. So, I mean, I'm probably wearing somewhere around 180 pounds of gear, not including the camera, by the time we're down on these 200 plus foot deep wrecks. And it's definitely a lot of task loading, but at the same time, I've spent years just diving even in my local quarry, which is not very exciting, but it helps to work out the kinks and make sure that you can reach, you know, different valves and do emergency drills and things like that. Uh, if the time ever arises. |
| James Stacey | Yeah. You know, speaking of the great lakes, um, you know, Obviously there's a soft spot for me having grown up around the great lakes and done a lot of diving on different wrecks. So it always warms my heart to see all of your great photos of all of the wrecks. It really celebrates what a lot of people don't know about, which is this great collection of wrecks in the great lakes. And, and you know that well, and I think what separates your, your still photography work, your photography work on these wrecks, um, is what I've seen you, you doing, which is this very strategic placement of light. that I haven't seen a lot of other underwater photographers do with, with shipwrecks. And that is, you know, um, your positioning of, of other divers and the use of, of kind of, for lack of a better term, accent lighting to kind of illuminate certain parts of the wreck. How did your style of let's say, particularly with shipwreck photography, how did that style develop for you and how did you kind of come up with those ideas? |
| Becky Kagan Schott | Uh, so, I mean, first off the great lakes are my absolute favorite place to dive. anywhere on the planet. And you know this because you've been on so many, we've been on a lot of the same shipwrecks, but when you go down and they're just, they're, they're just, they, you, I get this like haunting feeling and they're just, they each have this amazing story to tell. And I really want to try to capture that story in, in my photography. So the lighting came about when I was trying, I'm trying to tell the story of this wreck, but how do I kind of make it stand out? And I don't want to overdo it because I don't want to take away from the shipwreck itself. Um, but I also want to kind of make it more interesting or ghostly. And so the lighting techniques kind of came around from my cave diving because in underwater caves, it's pitch black and everything you do, every light that you use helps set the mood of, of the underwater cave. You can really light it up and make it bright, or you can, you can make it dark and spooky. And I used a lot of off-board lighting in underwater caves. I still do. And so I sort of applied that technique from my cave diving days to shipwrecks and saying, well, you know, I'd really love to illuminate this wheelhouse, you know? And so I'd set some lights in there and then position my diver to, or my model to sort of maybe swim around near the wheelhouse just to like give it scale. So I'm trying to think in a lot of different dimensions and put a lot of different elements into it. And what's going to catch somebody's eye, you know, as they're maybe flipping through a magazine or, or flipping through social media, what are they going to stop and look at? Um, what's going to, what's going to catch their interest. Um, and again, I like the challenge because, uh, it's, it's hard down there. It's cold. You've got limited time and to try to set up, uh, try to set up a unique shot is, um, is challenging, but that's, that's sort of what I, sort of what I live off of. I like that challenge. |
| James Stacey | You know, There's so many great wrecks in the lakes and you've done, you've done some amazing photography of, of so many of them and a couple come to mind. And I'm just wondering if you have a favorite, you know, the, the two that, that I think of and both of which I have never seen and never will because I don't deign to go as deep as you, um, are the Ganilda and the Kamloops. So the Kamloops is around Isle Royale and Ganilda is in very far remote corner of Northern Lake Superior. Um, You know, there's, there's, there's so much history tied up in so many of these wrecks and you really, in order to even photograph them and then, then later describe them, you have to kind of learn this history, um, you know, to kind of know what you're looking at and looking for and how to kind of convey that to, to people that see your photographs. I guess, can you talk maybe a little bit about your, some of your favorites, maybe the Ganilda tell, tell us a little bit about the Ganilda. |
| Becky Kagan Schott | Sure. Um, and, and yes, those Kamloops and Ganilda actually most wrecks in Lake Superior I'm very attracted to, and it's because of the lack of muscles in Lake Superior. The other four Great Lakes all have invasive zebra and quagga muscles, so they cover the details of the wreck. The water is clearer, but they cover those details. And those details, like seeing the paint color on the hull, or seeing the name written on the back of the ship, or something like the Kamloops, which is in 270 feet of water in a remote part of Lake Superior up in Isle Royale. I was just on it back in September. And we're down there and I'm taking images of the life, the boxes of lifesavers. And it's like, these are 70 years old. I think it's 70, 70 or 90. Maybe it's 90 years old that they've been underwater. And it's mind blowing. I mean, I'm sitting there and you're just in the darkness at 270 feet staring at these boxes of lifesavers going, This is real. This really exists. And nobody really knows about this and how many people will ever get to go down and see this. So I feel very privileged in that way. And I just I love the Kamloops and the Ganilda because they very few people go to those wrecks. And those were those were big dives for me, even after, you know, 20 plus years of diving. I did years of work up dives just to make it down to those wrecks because it's in such cold, deep water. And they are in remote places, but it was totally worth it. I mean, the Ganilda, it's this 200 foot long yacht that sank up in the northern part of Lake Superior in 1911. And I mean, it looks like you could pick it up and sail it away today. It's got gold leafing on the bow, the bell that still says Ganilda, the flying bridge with the wooden wheel, the telegraph and the binnacle. It's just, it's very haunting looking and it's just stunning. And when you look at it, it's hard to believe that this really exists and it's really on our planet. And so few people even know about it or know the stories about it. So I like to do the research. I like to learn about the stories of these wrecks and then go and visit them and try to tell their stories and maybe inspire somebody to dive and visit them someday. |
| James Stacey | Yeah, that's great. You know, just to, for the kind of the camera and gear nerds in our, in our listeners, I wonder if you can briefly kind of cover your, your camera and lighting gear. Um, are you a Nikon person? I can't remember. |
| Becky Kagan Schott | I am. Yes. I shoot currently I have a couple of Nikon D850s and I put those into Aquatica digital housings and I shoot a variety of lenses. It really just depends on, on what, if I'm shooting marine life or wrecks, but I tend to shoot like a 16 millimeter fish eye. a 14 to 24 millimeter rectilinear lens, or I've got, you know, it's like 16 to 35. So those are my, kind of my go-to, my go-to lenses. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. And as far as the cameras go, I'm curious, you know, you've been shooting for some time, cameras have changed so much, even in the last 10 years, but let's say, let's say even just in the concept of once digital became established until now, Is the big win for underwater photography, the higher ISO possible, the higher sensitivity without noise, or is there something else that has really kind of meant that it's been a progression of work with gear? |
| Becky Kagan Schott | I think it's a combination of things, and I think it depends on what you do. I mean, everybody has their different styles. I know some people that'll shoot 10,000 ISO on a shipwreck, and that's sort of their style. Okay, it's going to be really maybe it's going to be a much brighter photo. I tend to not go past 2000 ISO on any of my shots because I know that maybe they'll be blown up to be billboard size or something like that. So I don't like the grain in the shot at all, but it has significantly helped to have better ISO capabilities with these cameras, especially in darker, darker environments. I think the lighting technology, it's not even the camera technology, but also the lighting technology that's changed a lot and lights have become a lot more powerful underwater. So, That certainly helped. And just having better better sensors, better quality. It's sort of a combination. It's all it's all really contributed to to advancing in underwater photography. |
| Jason Heaton | And what's the I'm really curious. This is a question I had in my mind as soon as I knew you were coming on, because I've been following your diving inside of glaciers. And what happens to a battery? How long do they last? |
| Becky Kagan Schott | That is a great question. Yeah. So inside the glaciers, it's 32 degrees and It was so cold. Um, we were doing the longest dive that we did was a hundred minutes and my battery lasted the whole time and I still had about half a battery left, I would say, but, but that was shooting stills. Now, if I was shooting, I did shoot video on a dive and typically I only get around an hour or so of time if I'm, if I'm shooting constant video. So, um, the video dive that I did was probably an hour long, but I didn't shoot the entire time. So, Uh, that one was drained a lot more, but we did have problems with batteries and monitors. Um, they get this like ghosting effect. So like the video monitor that you're looking at, it just gets so cold and the batteries get so cold. It just starts to get these trails going by as you, as you move the camera. Uh, we had a lot of monitors just completely die because it was, it was so cold. It was more of the surface temperatures being negative 15 that I think killed the batteries more so than the underwater temperatures. Yeah. We had a lot of, of fun equipment. issues. |
| James Stacey | And for maybe those that that don't follow you on Instagram, we're talking specifically about a trip that you just got back from last week. You were in Alaska, correct? |
| Becky Kagan Schott | Yeah. Yeah. We were about three hours north of Anchorage in Alaska. And this is an expedition that I've spent months organizing to, you know, be one of a handful of people to ever dive inside of a glacier. And these are called moulins. And basically they can just drain at any point. So that's sort of the, the danger to diving in these. And that's why nobody does it is because the glacier is constantly moving and you know, these water filled cracks basically in the glacier can just drain at any point if like the plug gets dislodged or something like that. And it's kind of like being flushed down a toilet. So we had to set up a lot of safety protocols in order to dive these. the whole thing was just, just a crazy adventure. I mean, just to get out there, we had to take an R44 helicopter. It took us about five runs each way just to get all the gear and the people and the equipment, uh, safety equipment, everything out onto the glacier. And then once we got there, it was anywhere from, you know, negative nine to negative 15 degrees. And yeah, everything was breaking, but, um, no, not everything was breaking, but it was, uh, it was crazy because So the glacier at this point, since it's the winter, since it was November, it was frozen solid. So we weren't really sure what we were going to find. In the summer, these pools are open. They're just these big open blue pools. But in the winter, they're frozen over. So we had to take chainsaws out there with us and cut a hole to enter into the glacier. And we had about anywhere from 7 to 14 inches of ice, depending on which Mulan we were diving. And, uh, we, we set up ropes with ice screws. We were harnesses. Uh, we use double tanks with manifolds just in case there were any free flow problems because these are like diving into underwater ice caves. So you're in, uh, an environment where cold water can affect everything and equipment can just break and in cold water, things can just free flow. You can lose all your gas really easily. And then, you know, it's, it's complete overhead. And there were just these tunnels like shooting off everywhere, which it was, It was really spectacular, probably one of the most spectacular places I've ever dived. And I've been fortunate enough to dive in a lot of places, but it was truly, truly unique. One of the craziest things that was happening to us though, is we'd get in the water and like immediately my mask would ice over. I mean, like a sheet of ice across my mask. And so it takes about five minutes scraping with my dry glove across my mask and clearing it a bunch of times, trying to get my warm breath to clear the mask and get the ice off. And finally the mask, I just get the ice off the mask. I'm like, oh great. I can see. And this is gin clear water. It's absolutely gorgeous. It looks like you're flying. It's so clear. So it was nice once the mask came off the ice and then I'd realized that there's ice all over my camera's dome port. So I'd have to kind of wipe that off. Lights were freezing up. My, my buddy's regulators were freezing up. Uh, you know, it's, |
| James Stacey | It was my understanding that you were, um, you weren't using the rebreathers for that. You were actually using open circuit. |
| Becky Kagan Schott | We were using open circuit. Yeah. Just for a lot of reasons, but it was, um, I mean, to get everything on this small helicopter and get it out there, um, doubles were, were one of our, our better options. Uh, and especially for just the ease we were using double fifties. So they were not huge tanks, but enough were enough for what we were doing out there. |
| James Stacey | Yeah. I feel like all we're focusing on is your cold water stuff, but I think it's just so fascinating now to combat the, the cold water, obviously you, um, I mean, I've done a little bit of ice diving and I've always found that the temperature on the surface when you're standing on the ice kind of comes up through your feet. I mean, it's so cold. It's almost like it's a relief to get in the water, which just by the nature of liquid water has to be above freezing. And I know that seawater freezes at a lower temperature, but. Your, your dry suit, you have electric heating, an electric heating system. How's, how does the battery cope with cold water, um, with that system? |
| Becky Kagan Schott | Yeah. So that, that I just started using this past February. I've, I've done a majority of my cold water dives, um, maybe eight polar trips to Antarctica and the Arctic with no heat. And only this past February, I started using a fully heated, uh, undergarment underneath my dry suit, which is powered by, by a 20 amp hour battery. And, and it's, it's quite nice. I like it. It didn't make a big, it didn't make a big difference. It's, it's interesting though, because it doesn't get hot. It just kind of takes the edge off because if you get hot, you're going to sweat and that's going to make you colder. So it's, it's kind of a, a weird thing when you flip the switch, you're not sure if it's working or not, but then it's, it just sort of takes the edge off, which does make a big difference. But unfortunately the, the heating elements don't cover your feet. they only go down to about your knees because any, any areas where you'd be kneeling on these like wires or, you know, the wires would break. So it's mostly across your, your torso arms, you know, uh, waist and the upper part of your legs and back. It's not, it doesn't really go past your knees and definitely not down to your feet. So yeah, standing out on the ice is pretty brutal. Uh, we tried not to do that for too long or we'd stand on whatever we could, you know, mats or, you know, jackets, things like that, trying to, to not stand on the ice for very long. Um, and yes, it was a relief getting in the water going from negative 15 degree air temperatures into 32 degree water temperatures, water, water, like steam was coming out of the hole. It looked like a hot tub, even though it wasn't very inviting. Um, but, and then everybody kept, you know, they were very worried. They're like, are you okay? Do you need to get out of the water? Are you okay? I'm like, I'm, I'm great. It's much warmer in sitting in my ice hole than it is for you guys right now. |
| Jason Heaton | You know, I'm curious, and this may be a really dumb question, but in my experience diving in the winter in Vancouver, so, you know, maybe seven or eight Celsius was pretty cold underwater. My hands would be the first things that would become useless. I could deal with kind of being chilly, but it would it would be the hands. I, you know, I wouldn't have enough. I'd start to lose some dexterity. Do you do winter gloves or heated gloves? Or is it just a question of like you get used to it and it doesn't affect you the same way? |
| Becky Kagan Schott | Yeah. Were you using wetsuit gloves or dry gloves? |
| Jason Heaton | I was using wetsuit gloves for quite a while, five mil gloves. And then I went to dry gloves, which made a big difference, obviously. But then you run into the issue of the glove cutting. I had that happen and all those sorts of fun things. |
| Becky Kagan Schott | Yeah, exactly. I only use dry gloves. And what I've really found makes a huge difference is I have a silk glove, a really, really thin silk glove that I wear first. And then I wear Um, people think I'm crazy, but I just wear kind of the standard yellow fluffy liners that kind of come with most dry gloves. And I find those to give me the most dexterity and, and for me be the warmest, but that soap liner makes a big difference underneath there. Um, they do make heated gloves that I could snap into the suit, but they're much thicker. And, um, I feel like I don't have as much dexterity, uh, and, and the other ones seem to keep my hands warm enough, but I definitely know it's time to get out of the water when my hands start you know, when I can't manipulate my clips or my hands start getting really cold, because then, then it's time. But, um, I think the other thing is using the heated undergarments make a difference as well, because if your core and your body, the rest of your body is warm, your hands and feet tend to stay a little bit warmer too, just with, I think the, the warmer blood flow. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. I remember I had it where I couldn't, um, I couldn't vent my BC correctly. I couldn't squeeze the, and that, that, that, that was the dive where I gave up using, uh, wet gloves. I could see that making sense with, um, once you're on dry gloves, especially cause you've got to manipulate the camera the whole time as well. |
| Becky Kagan Schott | Exactly. And I like to really be able to feel the buttons and, and, um, just have my dexterity and my mask is really important and my gloves are really important to me. So it's, it's funny cause those are kind of simple pieces of gear, but at the same time, those are my two, in my opinion, my two most important pieces of gear. |
| James Stacey | I'm curious, um, if you, uh, Uh, still have some either wrecks in the great lakes that you have yet to dive that you want to. And I guess the second part of the question is. Anywhere else in the world that you haven't been yet that, that you'd like to go. |
| Becky Kagan Schott | Ooh, yes. I have a never, never ending list of places that I want to go. You know, I I'm headed back to Antarctica in six weeks. I've been there before, but I'm going to some new to me locations and actually one of the other locations we're doing, um, another Seiko expedition. So that's going to be exciting from, from the Arctic to the Antarctic in six weeks. Lots of cool water stuff. Very cool. Personally, I am dying to dive Bikini Atoll and I'm supposed to go there in April, but it's not open yet. So we'll see if that happens. But Bikini has some really incredible shipwrecks. I'd also love to dive with Belugas or Orcas or actually snorkel. Those are more snorkeling things. But I do like animals too. Like sometimes people always look at me and go, oh, you do shipwrecks and caves. But I really do like marine life and diving with with whales and dolphins and things like that. So yeah, there's, there's always somewhere. Um, I'm supposed to also head back to Norway or actually head to Norway. I've never been, uh, this has been on my list for several years as well and shoot polar bears and walruses this August. So I am super excited about that. So yeah, a lot of places on my wishlist there, they're coming. It's just, uh, yeah. Patiently waiting. |
| James Stacey | Yeah. You mentioned the, uh, the projects with, with Seiko, um, you know, briefly just wanted to give a shout out to Seiko. Of course. I mean, you've, you've kind of been working with them for, I'd say over the past year, we've seen, um, some of your photos and images of you and some, some short videos with you kind of, uh, helping promote their ice diver line. Is that something that's, that's kind of add a new element to your, to your work? Are you enjoying it? Um, is it, are you finding it difficult to kind of incorporate watches into the photography or is it, uh, Is it kind of a natural thing? |
| Becky Kagan Schott | No, it's been, it's been pretty natural. And I mean, I, I know quite a few divers that, that already use Seiko watches. So that that's been fantastic and it's been really exciting adventure. So, I mean, we started off by planning this Antarctica expedition that is now happening this year, but we planned it two years ago and it just, it couldn't happen because of everything going on in the world with COVID. And so then last February we, we ended up ice diving in Michigan. with the first generation of ice diver watches. And then I organized this expedition to Alaska. And in all seriousness, with so many gear failures that we had, the watch kept going. It was really impressive. I mean, my inflator never worked the whole time. Nothing works. Most of our regulators didn't even work, but we'd surface and the ice diver watch, it kept ticking away. It was great. It was actually encased in ice at one point, which was really kind of cool. Um, but no, it's, it's been, it's been a lot of fun and sake has been super supportive about, about conservation and exploration efforts and, you know, putting their watches into real world environments, which is exactly what I'm doing. So it's a really great partnership for us. |
| James Stacey | Yeah. Oh, that's great. We should wrap up here shortly. We have a couple more questions. Um, I just, I'm curious if there are any other, not if, but which other Underwater photographers you might recommend that we follow or any that you admire, or maybe there were mentors of yours or something? |
| Becky Kagan Schott | Oh, wow. That's a great question. There are so many really great photographers. I guess it depends like what you like following. If you enjoy underwater cave photography, there's a friend of mine, Natalie Gibb, Under the Jungle, that posts some really incredible cave diving photographs in Mexico. Another photographer, Jeff Lindsay, Uh, he's, uh, Jeff Lindsay CA on, on Instagram. He does a lot of great Lake shipwreck photography as well. And, um, and he was with us in Alaska. He's an excellent underwater photographer. So I'd follow, follow him as well. Oh, cool. |
| James Stacey | Nice. You know, a lot of people, um, haven't been able to get to dive, um, whether maybe they're not divers or they just haven't been able to travel much lately. Um, any. books, movies, anything like that you could recommend to people that kind of might scratch an itch, at least to kind of get a sense of diving. Are there any kind of favorite movies? Have you seen the rescue? I guess is one is a question too. |
| Becky Kagan Schott | Oh, you know, I am so bad. I was actually trying to look it up. I've been, I've been working really hard. I'm spending way too much time underwater. So I haven't watched the rescue yet, but I really, it's on my, my personal watch list. Um, cause I had a lot of friends that were involved in the actual rescue. So I'd like to, I'd like to watch that, but, That would definitely be, I think it's on Disney plus or something right now. |
| Unknown | Yeah. |
| Becky Kagan Schott | Um, that, I mean, of course your book. |
| James Stacey | Oh, of course. Yes. Which is a winging its way to you as we speak here. Right. Well, thank you for the plug. |
| Becky Kagan Schott | Yeah. No, really. I, I am. I'm excited because I mean, I, we're sitting here, nobody can see this, but I have my microphone sitting on top of, uh, at least four diving books. Uh, you know, the last dive shadow divers, close calls, raising the dead. And, um, I need, I need new materials. I need new things to read. So I'll probably be reading that on my way to Antarctica in about six weeks. |
| James Stacey | Oh, that's awesome. |
| Unknown | Yeah. |
| James Stacey | And let's not forget our good buddy, Chris Winters. I mean, he's, he's an author and a photographer as well. |
| Becky Kagan Schott | Yes, absolutely. I know. I haven't, uh, is he working on some new, a new book? |
| James Stacey | Oh, he always is working on a book. Yeah. I think he's got a fun one coming out, uh, next year. |
| Becky Kagan Schott | So I can't wait. He put out beautiful work and actually, uh, we were working on the, uh, bid on the Morrell exhibit, um, together. I contributed some, photography for the Whitefish Museum, uh, Daniel J. Murrell exhibit that, that he put together. I think he's been putting that together over the last year. |
| James Stacey | So, um, I can't wait to see that. Well, speaking of that, I mean, that's maybe a good, good place to kind of wrap things up is, is where can people see more of your work? Do you have, are they on a website or, I mean, obviously on Instagram, what's your Instagram handle? |
| Becky Kagan Schott | Yeah. Instagram is my name. So Becky underscore Kagan, K A G A N underscore shot S C H O T T. And I post a lot on Instagram. Um, I put a fair amount on Facebook as well with under my company name, liquid productions. Um, and obviously I've got my website, liquid productions.com. I try to keep that my galleries pretty updated on, on there, um, with any new adventures that, that we've just done. And, uh, yeah, I mean my work it's, it's all over dive magazines, um, alert diver, diver scuba diving magazine. I'm usually have something in every, in every issue. So I spent a lot of time writing and publishing there as well. And, uh, I actually just did my first, um, exhibit for Hillsdale college in Michigan. Uh, they, they have an exhibit up through, uh, through December with, uh, some of my, my great lakes art. So yeah, yeah, it's exciting. |
| Jason Heaton | So we'll, we'll put as much of that as I can dig up in the show notes. So if anybody's listening to you, you know, you can find it all there. Becky's definitely a must follow, uh, for people who, who would dig something like the gray NATO. So this is a, Becky, this has been awesome. So, so great to have you on and to hear more of the tales and I hope that we can do it again. Maybe, maybe chat about some more specifics or see what comes up in the comments and, and have you on again sometime soon. |
| Becky Kagan Schott | I'd love that after maybe I defrost in Antarctica. |
| James Stacey | Yeah. And we, we appreciate you coming on the Graynado and I look forward to catching up with you on the back of Yitka's boat and sometime in the future. |
| Becky Kagan Schott | Absolutely. I'm looking forward to it too. |
| James Stacey | All right. Thanks. |
| Jason Heaton | All right. And we're back. A huge thank you to Becky, as always. I thought that was such a cool chat. I can't wait to have her on again and have a thousand more questions for her. What a good sport and an incredible diver and a fantastic photographer. A real treat to have Becky shot on the show. Please hit the show notes and check her out. Becky Kagan shot, as she mentioned, on Instagram. All the stuff is worth checking out. There's some really, really fantastic work in the portfolio. |
| James Stacey | Yeah, that was that was a real pleasure. And, you know, we're thrilled to add her to our illustrious long list of great guests that we've had. Yeah, friends of the show. Friend of the show. Yeah. Why don't we jump into the final notes? |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah, can do. How about I, you want me to go first this time? Yeah, go for it. A rare treat. Okay. So I've been dealing with some kind of prolonged insomnia and have been spending a lot of time up at night and I wanted to, you know, be able to do something that wasn't noisy and didn't use a really bright screen. or a light, that sort of thing. And I ended up getting one of the new Amazon Kindles. So it's the Paperwhite 2021, I think is how people do it. It's this really little tablet with e-paper and it has a backlight that you can change the color temperature of. So I'm not a massive fan of Amazon, as I think we've said in the past, but this is a pretty nice product. And I already have a big collection of eBooks from a previous eBook reader that I owned and a Kindle that I own back the very first generation, but they've really evolved the product in the last You know, it's been goodness, 10 years, something like that. Anyways, uh, as, as one of the books that I had kind of always had on the list, uh, especially, uh, now with a digital option was a book called the secret history by Donna Tartt. And there's a good chance that, that a good portion of the audience already knows this book. It's a, I think fairly famous, but if I've recommended it to a few people who didn't seem to know it and they're like bookhead. So maybe, maybe this would be a brand new thing for a few people. It's one of my wife's favorite books and she'd recommended it to me. And it's well outside my normal. It's fiction kind of relationship, interrelationship sort of based fiction. So really outside of it's, it's not about scuba diving. It's not about, um, taking a boat to a piece of ice and then not being able to get the boat back. And it's not about getting lost in the woods. So it's well outside my normal. Uh, I can give you the, this is the, the good read sort of, um, synopsis under the influence of their charismatic classics professor, a group of clever eccentric misfits at an elite new England college, discover a way of thinking, and living that is a world away from the humdrum existence of their contemporaries. But when they go beyond the boundaries of normal morality, they slip gradually from obsession to corruption and betrayal, and at last, inexorably, into evil."I read it. It's not a slow read. I think you can kind of buzz through it. It's a beautifully written book. Donna Tartt's probably best known for The Goldfinch, which is another very much appraised But this is a fantastic story. It's told in first person from one of these students. They're clever in not giving it a really specific time, but I would guess it's about 1984, 1985 is when this was based around then at least. And, uh, I, I loved it. I couldn't put it down several times. Uh, I probably stayed up even later or longer than I should have. Uh, but if you're like me, uh, not a huge reader, typically, I think I do most of my reading on websites. and, you know, uh, feedly and things like that, but, uh, to be able to get back into it. And, and I actually, I really liked the device, the ability to change, you know, there's like 30 stages of brightness. You can make it really dim. You can make it really orange. It doesn't seem to bother my eyes. It doesn't weigh anything. So you can just kind of prop it up in the blanket next to you and, uh, and buzz through a book. I, uh, it was, it was a good experience and something I wanted to, uh, to highlight. Fantastic story. |
| James Stacey | You know, I've seen the, I've seen this title for, for ages, for many years. And, uh, and your endorsement, um, given, you know, what I know about your tastes and reading and that sort of thing, uh, it goes a long way for me. So I'll, I'll definitely have to pick this up, you know, and speaking of the Kindle device, I, uh, over the past, I don't say two years now, I've really moved into audio books as the medium by which I, in which I read and it's good and bad. I mean, yesterday I was cooking dinner and I was listening to, uh, to a book. Um, which is great, but I've gotten into this habit of listening as I'm going to sleep. And then I just, I just miss like entire chapters or hours. Um, which is, you know, I tend to get books through like a, this library app. So then I returned them and then, you know, I'm not buying a bunch of books, but I love audio books, but I need to, I need to balance that with like real reading. So I actually can absorb the stories instead of falling asleep to them. And it sounds like secret history is one of those. I really should read properly rather than just use as a sleep aid. |
| Jason Heaton | My guess is it would make an incredible audio book, but it's not one where you want to miss a page. Yeah. It's slyly written. And I say that like with a lot of praise for Donna Tartt, the, the, the considerations of one sentence can be very important to the way it cascades through the story. Sure. So it's, it's, it's not something that you want to read like, um, like a coffee table book. Yeah. Like I would, I would, you know, get a, get a coffee or, or a drink or whatever it was and like really pour into it. And I think I'm going to have to read some others. I actually just started Dune last night. I was up for several hours in the middle of the night and I'm dipping into fiction. I don't know what's happening to me. My brothers have got the best of me, I guess. I saw Dune and was very confused by a few elements of it. And I'm, you know, a couple chapters into Dune now and I can say that the movie does a really fantastic job of making something very dense seem accurate in its visuals, in its visual scape, but I would reserve the rest of it until I get through uh, at least the first book of, uh, of Dune. So that, that's where I'm at now. There's a couple others on the list. I definitely want to read my, my brother's a huge fan of American gods by Neil Gaiman. Oh, okay. So that one I think is another one I'm going to check out. And then, uh, you were talking about audio books and it triggered this in my, in my memory when, when audible first launched in Canada when I was in university. So like a legit long time ago, I went through a whole run and bought all of Chuck Klosterman's books. Okay. One of my most favorite writers, he's a pop culture writer who's done a lot in sports as well. But his books are these big compendiums of stories and thoughts and overarching narratives about the purpose of various pieces of content or people and what it is to be famous and the rest of it. some really fascinating stuff in there. So that's also on the list. I think it could be a busy, uh, busy holiday season if I'm lucky of, uh, just kind of reading a lot. |
| James Stacey | Yeah. Well, it's a good, good time to get into, uh, get into fiction. Reading is winter, at least in my, in my mind. |
| Jason Heaton | I would agree. Yeah. So if you have a book that you absolutely love, please, I'm not joking. I would, I would, I would love to make a little list. Uh, give me a little synopsis in a title. I I'm sure I can dig it up. You don't have to go through the work of leaving a link, but just throw it in the show notes for this episode. at thegreenado.com. I think, uh, I would love to have the next year of reading kind of sorted out by people who probably understand most of my tastes. How about you? What did, what'd you get up to? |
| James Stacey | I have a fresh, um, freshly minted, uh, final notes recommendation. And I think we both recently saw this as in like within the past probably, uh, 20 hours. This is, uh, the new movie on Netflix called 14 Peaks. Um, nothing is impossible. And it features, uh, and is the story of, uh, another of our past illustrious TGN guests, um, Nirmal Purja or Nims as he's better known, just a fantastic movie. So this is the movie about project possible a couple of years ago when he set out to climb the 14, 8,000 meter peaks, um, in a little over six months. And, you know, I mean, this isn't going to be news to anybody that listens to this show. We've talked about NIMS before. We had him on the show. Um, and it was all over the news of course, but finally this, this movie was made and I was, I was pretty blown away by this film. I mean, I knew the whole story. I, you know, I've followed NIMS for, for a long time and kind of know what he's all about, but, uh, it was still really inspirational to see. He's, he's a big inspiration to me personally. I just, I, I just find that sort of driven, focus and positivity that he has, just really inspiring no matter what you're setting out to do. You know, there's one thing about NIMS that I've noticed and he has this, this positivity that borders on, I don't want to say arrogance, but you know, cockiness that I always wonder if at some point it's going to tip over into being overbearing. You know, there's that, that, that, that danger that he could just become like, Oh boy, this guy's over the top. He's, he's too much of himself, but, it always, he takes it to that brink and then there's some element of, you know, altruism, I guess I would call it something that, that, you know, his positivity is, is done in the spirit of inspiring people. And I, I, I just think that he balances this incredible self-confidence, um, with this, this caring, this compassion for kind of the human race in general. And I, it feels very genuine to me that, that I was very impressed by. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. I felt the same way when we were first, when I saw that it was available, you'd mentioned you're going to watch it. So I said, and you know, let's check this out. And I put it on kind of worried that it was going to feel like a motivational speaker for an hour and a half that just happens to be standing at the top of mountains. And I think the difference is, is it's not an act. I think if you watch this movie, you'd, I'd be really surprised if you thought this guy's faking any of it. Right. Right. Yeah. And that's where it works for me. And there's definitely points where he was not, not so much humble, And he doesn't operate like, and they say this in the movie, like he doesn't have the normal kind of quiet, I'll talk about it when it's done, attitude of a mountaineer. He is a little bit more of this motivational sort of guy, this kind of big presence, this big force of nature. And I loved this movie way more than I thought I would. The cinematography is incredible. It's easily the best look at several of these mountains that I've ever seen. uh, both in graphics and in, and in the big drone shots and the, the work they did on K2. Yeah. Goodness sake. Yeah. Yeah. Goodness sakes. Just like the, the drive, the drive to make it happen when it, when so many people around him were like, this isn't a great idea and to do it all, to do it all with, you know, with, with people from Nepal, with Nepalese climbers and to show that, that, that there's nothing inherently high quality about a white European or white American or white Canadian climber. Yeah. These guys are, these guys are operating on arguably a level that nobody's really attempted before. And then there's some great talking head stuff. You know, you, you get a look at, at kind of the different facets of NIMS and a couple of the guys that are with them. Um, but it mostly just comes down to like, man, the drive and the amount of work it was even to get started. Like not even just climbing the mountains. I would say in some ways there was a 15th and a 16th and a 17th mountain of like getting the money and getting the right people. And you know, this family element that I don't want to spoil in any way and, and, and all that. I thought this was incredible. It's a must watch. Absolutely. Yeah. What a guy. |
| James Stacey | Yeah. Yeah. I was really pleased to see his, his wife doing a good, good part of the narration or the kind of the backstory stuff that I had didn't know much about her and I hadn't seen much of her. Um, and that was kind of refreshing, but then I think these two elements that set him apart are his, his military background. I don't know of many, you know, professional mountaineers that come from a special forces background. And I think that really. Partly made him who he is as well as his, his background as a, as a Nepali. And I think, you know, those two things really set him apart in, in his drive and personality and kind of the way he goes about things. And I think, uh, it also grounds him, you know, his background. Yeah. Fascinating. So, you know, as a final note, I think, you know, you and I heartily recommend this and I'm sure a great number of our, of our listeners will have already seen it or will be planning to do it probably this weekend. So, uh, yeah, check it out. 14 peaks, nothing is impossible now available on Netflix. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. Right, right up there with the Alpinist and Dawn Wall and Free Solo. Like this is just another amazing, and to see so much of it in Karakorum, obviously like in, in the areas where you have 8,000 meter peaks. Whereas the last few kind of big mountaineering or climbing movies have been based largely in US soil. To go back to these theaters of just the immensity, it's jaw-dropping. Some of the footage I just couldn't help but be like, wow, look at how big K2 is when you see all of it. Yeah, it's jaw-dropping. Someday, I don't want to climb it, I would love to hike around that area. Go to base camp for a couple of those mountains would be Yeah, a dream. Yeah, for sure. |
| James Stacey | It's, it's actually a good week for adventure films. I love, I just love good adventure movies. You know, the Alpinist was a couple of weeks ago that I saw that and then 14 Peaks. And then later this week I think, um, the rescue is, is available to stream. |
| Jason Heaton | Coming to Disney plus. Yeah. I'm getting a, I'm getting a Disney plus. I fought getting one for so long. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, that fight is over. I will be watching that. I think it comes out December 3rd if I remember correctly. Yeah. I'm very excited for that. Chat about that next week. Absolutely. |
| James Stacey | Yeah. And as always, thanks so much for listening. Subscribe to the show via notes.thegrenado.com and be sure to check the feed for more details and links. You can follow us on Instagram at Jason Heaton at J E Stacey and follow the show at the grenado. And as we mentioned at the top, if you'd like to support the show, you can hit up thegrenado.com and click on support and you'll get all the details there. If you have any questions for us, please write to thegrenado at gmail.com and keep sending in those voice memos. We have a couple of monster Q and A's coming up here. Yeah, for sure. We'd love to include yours. And if you're enjoying the show, please subscribe and review wherever you find your podcasts. Music Throughout a Siesta by JazzArr via the Free Music Archive. |
| Jason Heaton | And we leave you with this quote from the French philosopher Michael Serres, who said, voyaging begins when one burns one's boats. Adventures begin with a shipwreck. |