The Grey NATO – 167 – October Q&A

Published on Thu, 28 Oct 2021 06:00:34 -0400

Synopsis

Jason Heaton and James Stacey answer a variety of questions from listeners on topics like watches, diving, travel, and adventure experiences. The questions cover their thoughts on vintage Jaguar cars, changing watch straps, regrets on watches they didn't buy, the definition of "boring" watches, dual crown dive watches, anniversary watch recommendations, and any scary or dangerous situations they've encountered while diving or adventuring.

Transcript

Speaker
Jason Heaton Hello and welcome to another episode of The Grey Nado, a loose discussion of travel, diving, driving, gear, and most certainly watches. This is episode 167, and we thank you for listening. James, it's the end of October already, and here we are with another Q&A episode.
James Stacey Man, it came awfully quick. Yeah, with these episodes, we don't typically do any of the other preamble. You don't get to hear about what the weather is here. You're going to have to look in your app or maybe guess. It's basically the same as it has been. So yeah, we don't do the weather. We don't do the risk check of the rest. We just get to the questions. So what do you say we get to it?
Jason Heaton Let's do it. Greg's got a cool question about an old Jaguar.
Greg Oh, yeah. Hi, James and Jason. Greg here from Toronto. I've got a three part question for you, but hopefully it won't take too long to answer. A little background. I'm the owner of a 92 Jag XJS coupe. in British Racing Green, which has been passed down through my family. So it's been with my family for a while. I know it's a divisive car, the XJS. So I, in general, just like to hear your thoughts on that car. Don't worry, it's not going to change my feelings on it. So feel free to be honest. Second, The one thing I don't like about the car, or not that I don't like, but that that's, I've always wondered about the car is what the V12 would sound like without the, the kind of really quiet, quiet exhaust that Jag put on this car. Um, and I've thought about changing the exhaust on it, but I'm always really hesitant because I don't know if it'll change the, um, the character, the original character of the car. Uh, or, or what it was intended to be. And I mean, I understand it's already a Jag, but is that going to make it more of a, that guy kind of kind of thing. And then third coupe versus coupe. Where do you come down on that term? To me, it's a coupe. Um, but if you're a fan of top gear or anything like that, then you, you hear coupe quite a bit. Um, so, so where do you guys fall down on that, on that question, coupe or coupe? Anyways, Look forward to hearing your answers and keep up the good work on the show.
James Stacey All right, Greg, thanks very much for that question. Jason, we're talking about a luxury British roadster or coupe from the early 90s. What do you think of the XJS?
Jason Heaton Oh, man. You know, Greg, I'm just smitten. You know, I've often said that the E-Type is my my dream Jag, actually my dream car. But if I couldn't have that, this is a, this is a close second and much more affordable and actually attainable. And I think, um, you know, you're, you're preaching to the choir. I absolutely adore the XJS and the roadsters are nicer that the convertibles, but the, uh, the coop and James and I are both saying coop, which will hint at our later later answer. But, um, I don't know the, the, the, the XJS with those, um, those like flying buttresses they put, you know, off the back window, the kind of, I mean, what a great design feature. And then to get it with the V12, I just, I mean, you can't go wrong. I think it's, it's the coolest modern, uh, if, if the nineties are still considered modern, uh, jag in my mind, I say absolutely, absolutely run with it. Um, you know, my only thing is I know I've seen like a race version that was made with a stick shift and a little more Spartan interior. And I think that would be really cool. And I don't know if you can retrofit stuff like that, but, uh, it's a little too posh for my taste, but I think I could get used to it just for the beauty of it. So James, how do you like these cars?
James Stacey I think these are great. You know, I think this is from a really special time in that brands, you know, they have a really long history. You've got a thing for E types. Um, I'm, I'm deeply a C or a D man. Uh, I really liked those early, you know, pseudo sort of the ones that look like a death trap. I'm going to say that they are, but that I like the ones that kind of look like it. I've, I've, I got a chance to sit in the, um, Lamar winning top prize, 1953 C type, uh, a few years back. And it's, uh, they're just like, And then a D, like anything cooler than XKSS, like that era. And then all of that, like spoke to these cars as well. This is before you had a lot of influence from Ford and then, um, you know, the JLR, uh, connection. Uh, I think these are, I think these are killer. I mean, these are, these are big like continent crushing V12, uh, cars and, and yeah, I think it'd probably be more fun on a half hour drive with a stick. and a little bit less sound deadening and less wood and maybe a few less cows used on the interior. Yeah. But really like this is, this is for, you know, getting up on getting up on a Friday and driving to Monaco or, uh, or, or to, to France for some, for, for a case of wine or something like that. Like these are, I think these look really good. I think they've aged really well, despite having kind of one of the weirder headlight designs of any Jaguar too, I think.
Jason Heaton Yeah, for sure. Like a, four headlamps for a while and then I think went to that kind of TV set almost looking thing.
James Stacey Yeah, exactly. So I think by 92 that we're looking at the larger, the ones that look more like eyes in many ways. But I like these, I mean, they're like a long wheelbase, they're kind of old world luxury, which doesn't really exist anymore, right? Like now luxury would mean a lot of tech, whereas I think the idea with these cars is they were quiet and they were fast, right? Yeah. You know, if we get into the exhaust question, It depends on how loud it is, right? Like that's such a sliding scale for exhaust. It also depends on what sort of neighborhood you live in. If you live somewhere where you could start something like this at early in the morning and not wake anyone up, then who cares?
Jason Heaton To your point about, you know, dumbing it down or making it more Spartan and kind of going against the character of the car. I do think that you're right for a 40 minute drive, a loud exhaust would be fun. But if you want to like do a Lake Superior circle tour to kind of keep it on our side of the Atlantic, I think you'd probably want to keep the existing exhaust or something a little quieter just for like that grand touring kind of comfort and quiet.
James Stacey Yeah, I would say, you know, I think upgrading the exhaust on a car, especially a car that has an engine that's worth hearing is worth considering if you like the way cars sound. Some people hate it. I of course adore it. Yeah. Um, and, and I think a V12 is worth hearing even just for the smoothness. Yeah. Um, my guess is that Jag did a certain amount of work to make sure you couldn't hear anything. Like you mentioned the quiet exhaust. Right. Um, you know, I think you could go with a conservative exhaust, like see if there's a go-to one in the XJS community.
Unknown Yeah.
James Stacey Check out the forum, see what everyone else is buying because they've road mild tested it. Right. They know that you can do a three or four hour drive and not, you know, blow an eardrum from the drone. And then your other option, and this is more modern than a 92, but you can definitely get it on pretty much any exhaust upgrade, is get a valved exhaust. So you'd end up with a little button somewhere in the car or on your key chain, and you can close it for quiet mode, and it would be similar in probably volume that you have now, or you can open the valves. And there's different setups for this. It would depend on who installed it, who designed and installed the system. some would come out right under the door. So you might actually get more sound just for you. Yeah. And then some are valved just into, uh, around a resonator or, or something to that effect. So I say go for it. I think exhaust is not only in many cases, um, uh, consumable, you eventually have to replace them. Um, but also it's easy to go back to stock. You'd, you'd blow that money or you'd have to find somebody else who has an XJS who wants to try it. But like, you don't run a huge risk. You're not going to ruin the car. Kind of. It's not like you decide to, Oh, I have a coupe and I want a convertible. I'm just going to cut the roof off. Right. Right. So no, I think, uh, I think if, if it would enjoy, if it would increase the way that you enjoy the car, or if your typical methodology for driving the car is like a weekend thing for a couple hours, a new exhaust might be just, just what the doctor ordered to, to bring out some enthusiasm in, in what's otherwise kind of a, a quiet kind of subtle, you know, big GT car.
Jason Heaton Yeah. I'm so excited. I just thought of somebody buying one of these. It's like, it just gets me all giddy. Such cool cars. So, and, and I guess to wrap this up, I mean, we both said coupe. I think coupe is more of a European, probably French influenced, maybe British English or something. Yeah. But yeah.
James Stacey Yeah. It's coupe for me. I know like I, it took me years to, to have my brain moved to default Porsche. Oh yeah. You know, where I grew up, nobody would say Porsche. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, I think with coupe or coupe, neither matters. I think it would sound a little bit weird if I, if I like it at a certain point, I would also have to start calling something, uh, you know, the boot or the bonnet or.
Jason Heaton Oh, I say lean into it. I do that with the, the, the Land Rover. I think it's because all the forums I read all referred to bonnets and boots and.
James Stacey Yeah. But I think if you have, I think if you have the Land Rover, you get to say it. At least that's how I see it in my mind. I drive like a a pseudo mall crawler jeep. Like I don't need to have any of those words in my vocabulary. There's no ex ante goos in the jeep world. There just isn't, you know, it's a different sort of thing. But I think if you've got an old Jag, you absolutely can say coupe. Oh yeah, for sure.
Jason Heaton Yeah. Lean into it. Get the tweed.
James Stacey Yeah. Yeah. Cool. Great question, Greg. And if you, um, if you end up putting an exhaust on the car, shoot us a little video, drop it to our email or, or send us an audio file and we'll play it, uh, at the end of an episode coming up with people want to hear what it ended up sounding like. Yeah. That's super cool. Great question. Yeah. Next up, we've got one from Drew about why we decide to change straps.
Drew Hey, guys, it's Drew from Missouri. My question is related to strap change triggers. Aside from maybe the weather or season, what are common triggers for you when it comes to making a strap change on a watch? For me, I find the psychology of it somewhat fascinating. For example, I could have a watch on a strap or a bracelet and feel so good about it one day, like I'll leave it that way forever. and then days or maybe even hours later, I'm swapping out the bracelet or strap. Maybe it's because I wore a shirt that caught the strap funny and it annoyed me, or suddenly the watch didn't feel as good on my wrist, or let's face it, I might've saw an Instagram post with my watch on a different strap or back on its bracelet, and I suddenly wanted to replicate what I saw in the picture. I suspect I'm not the only one with various weird triggers for strap changes, and I'm curious to find out what yours might be. Thanks, guys.
Jason Heaton Oh, that's a fun question, Drew. Um, you know, I'm, I'm kind of with you. I think sometimes you see a photo of a, of a watch that you, you know, a photo you took a while back of, of a watch you own on a different strap and you think, I forgot it looked really good on that leather strap or that NATO and change it up. I think, I think for me that the triggers are the ones you cited at first that maybe you didn't want us to mention, which is, you know, stuff like weather or the seasons. That's, that's typically why I kind of move a watch from, from one to the other, especially this time of year, I'm really getting into the leather straps, the bun straps. And, uh, but I think too, you know, act it's activity based. So, uh, if I've got a watch that has a bracelet and a strap and let's say I'm going to do something water-based, you know, diving or something, I often will move it to the bracelet if I've got one, because it, you know, they don't absorb water. They're, they're comfortable when it's hot out, et cetera, et cetera. I think oftentimes it's, it's a look or a feel. And I think sometimes it works in the reverse. So if I, if I'm wearing a watch that has a particular strap on it, it kind of almost influences the way I dress or the way I feel when I'm wearing that watch. It might have a bit more of a active, you know, kind of aggressive, go get them sort of feel to it. And sometimes you feel a little more refined and dressy and makes you want to put on a, you know, a nice sweater or a shirt or something like that. Um, or sometimes it's just boredom. You know, sometimes you, you know, you're wearing a watch and you're like, you just want to keep trying different straps and settle on one for half a day and then switch it up. So how about you, James?
James Stacey I think I would agree with that to the extent that I won't relist all of those perfectly good reasons. You know, I would also throw in like the mercuries and retrograde or I'm not actually sure what that means. But like I just, it's like, it's a gut thing. Like I'll just, I'll, I'll look at a watch and I'll know what one I want to wear or pull out of the box. And then I'll put it on and think like I've had it on the strap for too long. Yeah. I need to try something else. It feels kind of fresh. And then the only other one I would add is I think I do it a lot when I have a new watch. I basically run it through every, all of my 10 or 15 favorite straps or bracelets or whatever. And then the, the only other thing I would add is sometimes I want to emulate an entirely different watch. Like, like in the world of dive watches, if you zoom out even a little bit, they mostly look the same. Yeah. Give or take. Right. Right. And sometimes it's give or take a lot, like a white dial versus a black dial. That's a pretty big difference. But like, if we're talking a black dial dive watch at a certain point, they do all look pretty similar. Um, so sometimes by changing the strap, you can kind of emulate the look of a different watch that you've appreciated recently. Like I've, I have this on my Instagram now, but I did it. I got the strap or the bracelet after we recorded the last episode. Uh, so I really, you know, I've been going through a whole cycle with watches of dealing with watches. I can't really get out of my mind, like watches. I got a chance to see in the last few years and then haven't really, they haven't left me alone. And that's why I ended up buying the Bremont S302, and I like it a lot. And one of the things I like about the S302 is its coloring is very similar to that new Bond watch.
Unknown Yeah.
James Stacey The no time to die, the matte black with the tan accents, and it's on a titanium mesh bracelet because it's a titanium watch. So what I ended up doing was just buying a steel mesh bracelet that had a very similar kind of mesh pattern to the one from Omega. Now, I bought it... Literally, it was $22 Canadian. from a company called Maker. It's a really nice little strap. It was polished. I didn't want a polished one, but brushed ones are quite a bit more expensive and would have had to come from our seller outside of Canada. So I couldn't have had it tomorrow. Often, impatience will win out. So I took a sanding block to it and just sanded down the finish. And with Mesh, each individual little link is so small that you don't ever really get an impression of it being brushed, it just isn't that shiny, which is nice. And so that's where sometimes I will change a watch because I'll either see an entirely different watch and go like, oh, but if I did grab this watch and that strap, I think it would have the same wrist presence or same sort of aesthetic appeal, and I'll go that route. I'll include the bracelet and the photo in the show notes, but it's been quite successful. I can't take that watch off. I've been loving it. Yeah.
Unknown Yeah.
Jason Heaton Good one, Drew. Let's move on to one from Jim, who is curious about watches that we've passed on that we might regret.
Jim Hi, James and Jason. It's Jim from Brooklyn. I have a question. You always seem to talk about watches that you've had and you got rid of. I'm curious about watches that you passed on that were great and you don't know why you did it. And you think about it later. I could have had a Tudor Marine Nationale. I had the money. Uh, it was a while ago, so I doubt if it was fake and I let it go and I don't know why I did that.
James Stacey All right, Jim, that's a great question. Uh, Jason, what do you think? You got any, anything spring to mind that the biggest, uh, the biggest one you let get away?
Jason Heaton Um, yeah, I was, I was thinking about this and you know, certainly I think we've talked in the past about regrets of watches we've, we've had and sold. Um, I think this is a slightly nuanced and maybe more interesting question and that's ones that we passed on and I, The one that comes to mind is, uh, years ago, this was many years ago. This was early days of Hodinkee, maybe second year in. And, uh, and I was hosting a watch sale pop-up. So this was before the Hodinkee shop existed. And, and I was doing an event here in Minneapolis and I had a little booth and, and, and Ben Clymer had shipped out a pile of kind of vintage watches from various dealers that he was partnering with at the time. And, and said, you know, look, you know, you, You can take your pass through these and, you know, if you want to buy any of them, go ahead. But otherwise, this is what you're going to sell on that weekend or whatever it was. And the one that I just fell in love with was a Heuer chronograph. It was the Bundeswehr chrono, you know, with the big black rotating bezel. Oh yeah, those are gorgeous. Flyback, hand wound, big case. I don't remember, you know, 42, 43 millimeters. Yeah. Gorgeous watch. Proper pilot's tool. Proper watch. I mean, and the numerals on the dial were perfect. You know, this is back, you know, 2010 or so. And like the price was at the time it was good. And right now it's, you know, there's no way you could find it for that price. And I don't know, it's a watch I could see myself having worn for many years. And I, I keep my eyes open, you know, there, there have been different versions of that besides the Hoyer, you know, Zinn made a version and I think there might be one or two floating out there as well from, from other brands, but super cool. That's, that's the one that pops to mind. I kind of wish I had pulled the trigger on that one. How about you? Anything?
James Stacey Yeah, for me, I mean, I'm sure there's more if we had even more time to think about it. When we're talking about a certain price point, like once we're over $100 or $200, I move really slowly. I buy maybe one watch a year, maybe two. And I don't like to be super impulsive about it. If the watch is brand new and difficult to get, I ignore it entirely. I'm not doing the calling a boutique and getting my name on a list and the rest of it. That's not the way that my enthusiasm connects with buying a watch. Yeah. Um, I much prefer, I mean, I love secondhand buying from someone else that's, that's like owned it and loved it and knows what it is and the rest of it. And that's always been fine by me. A few years back in February of 19, um, a handful of us from Hodinkee were down in Miami to cover watches and wonders, uh, that they do in the Miami art district. And while we were there, I swung by Matt Baines, uh, studio and he's a fairly prolific dealer, reseller, that sort of thing. And he has this incredible studio. And you wouldn't believe the watches. I will put the link in the show notes because I think we published like 116 images in this story. It was just like he just brought out one tray after another of just the most amazing stuff. And of course, like 99.9, almost repeating way outside my price point. Not only was it three or four years ago, things were cheaper then than they are now, but they were still... We're talking like heavy hitter AP, seriously collectible Rolex, Patek, IWC, Omega, all the hits, right? And a lot of it really vintage. Yeah. And then at one point he brought out like a, just a loose tray, like the kind of tray you might put your keys in and other stuff of about, I don't know, in my mind, I want to say 30, maybe it was 20 more modern, like five digit Rolexes.
Unknown Yeah.
James Stacey And, um, and among them was a 14 to 70 explore on a Jubilee. So it didn't deserve to be on the Jubilee. Yeah. That wasn't really how it came. And it wasn't like a boxes and papers. I'm buying it based on trusting Matt and that would not bother me at all. He, he offered me a very fair price. If I remember correctly, it was three grand, which I probably could have talked him down a little bit from that as well. Yeah. And at the time I was just focused on shooting and I like very briefly entertained just handing him my credit card because three grand would have been a good deal at the time. Um, the watches are worth more now, even just a few years later, despite the fact like we're not talking like boxes, papers, museum quality. Yeah. It was like in very nice condition, ready to wear and a watch that I've always kind of enjoyed. And I thought would kind of compliment the Explorer too, in a fun way. And, uh, and I, instead I just decided to focus on the fact that I had like another 150 watches to shoot.
Unknown Yeah.
James Stacey Yeah. That was, that's probably the one that jumps to mind. Uh, and I'll include that story in the show notes. You can see that watch in there, uh, among many other really fantastic things, but a fun question. I mean, not many that I feel like I genuinely, you know, slipped through my grasp, but that one was when I probably could have very safely purchased with very little risk in terms of money or otherwise.
Jason Heaton Right. The funny little coda to this is I think that that Hoyer that I regret passing on, I think that came from Matt Bain as well. Something about Matt Bain.
James Stacey I think we should get in touch with him. Great taste. Yeah. Right. Yeah. For sure. Yeah. Killer stuff, man. Those Hoyers are rad. Yeah. That's a cool watch. All right, next up, we've got a question from Stephan, who's kind of pondering the differences between subjective and objective voices when talking about the sorts of stuff we chat about.
Stephan Hi, Jason and James. This is Stephan from Chicago. I'm a longtime TGN listener and supporter. And as many have mentioned on this show, your work is just exceptional and we owe you a huge thanks. I think you both do a wonderful job at providing unique opinions on topics while also being able to discuss the more objective side of things, whether it is a watch review, a gear recommendation, or maybe just a travel story. Can you talk about how you're able to thread that needle between personal opinion and objective information? I know this is not easy, but you guys make it look so. Cheers.
Jason Heaton Yeah. Good, good question, Stefan. It's fun to talk about kind of the writing life a little bit. James, what do you think? I mean, where do you come down on this kind of personal opinion versus being objective?
James Stacey Yeah. I don't know. I don't know. You know, this is like, if we're talking about things like watches or even travel and that sort of thing, in most cases, we're talking about very subjective things. Yeah. The idea that you would read one of my stories is probably because you want some of the data, but it's available other places, but you want to build to some sort of an opinion. Right. So I would say first, outside of strict journalism covering world news, financial markets, like actual real journalism, which I don't really think that's what writing about watches is necessarily. Maybe it takes that form sometimes, but for the most part, you're, you're attempting to, I think it's a blend of offering some perspective, which can come in the form of an opinion, offering the crucial pieces of data that don't have to be argued about or even over-considered. They just have to be stated. And then hopefully taking both of those and finding a way to teach something in the process. whether it's expanding what somebody might know about a genre of watches or a part of the world or a certain brand of car, while also giving up all of the kind of fun little opinions that might come up if you or I were sitting at the bar talking about the same thing. Yeah. I don't really consider the difference between my objective and my subjective take because I feel like with watches, it's pretty obvious. If I'm telling you that the case is 45 millimeters, that's objective. If I'm telling you that the case wears smaller than you might expect, that's subjective, right? It's kind of a balance, and I think you just have to do both. And I think that the last part of it is you have to accept that on the subjective side, you can't please even most people, right? There's so many folks out there. You just have to be comfortable with the idea that you're putting out a perspective that's not solid. Just because I say something wears a bit smaller, that was just my impression. It may not work out that way for you. So the idea is simply to try and have more points of data available um, while also covering the, the, the, the sort of way that something hits you, if that makes sense.
Jason Heaton Yeah, I agree. I mean, I think if I look back at the great majority of writing I've done, it's, it's opinion and it's, it's personal. I like to tell stories and I like to tell them kind of from my perspective. So if it's taking a dive watch somewhere, it's my experience with that watch and how it made me feel because I think watches are or very emotional thing. And I think, you know, if we're talking about something like a travel story or a backpack review or, um, you know, anything, I think, I think it's, it's, it's all personal, you know, kind of reflection or opinion. Um, with the exception of, you know, if you're including any historical information or in the case of, and I've never written one of these, but these reference points articles for Houdinki where you really want to get the facts straight about the history or the development of a specific reference. But that's not a type of story I've, I've written. much of.
James Stacey I'm not sure what the core value of a purely objective thing would be in trying to capture the enthusiasm of a product. I kind of want to know whether it's a car or a watch or a video game or a movie or whatever. I want to know some of the data, obviously, but I feel like I could get that from any place. When I actually sit down and read one of your pieces, Jason, or you know, something by Wes Seiler or, uh, you know, something by Sam Smith. Uh, Sam is an automotive writer. Wes Seiler does some automotive and stuff. Otherwise with, uh, outside, there's two examples that jumped to mind as guys whose names I kind of look out for. I want their personality in there. And that's where I think that's the subjective layer is, is the personality. And even when I might disagree with them, it's still what I want from the story. Isn't to feel like I'm validated in my opinion, but that I saw, I got their opinion. Right. Yeah.
Jason Heaton I think that's what people want. Yeah. They want opinions.
James Stacey So, but I think you definitely need both to, to the point that I think Stefan was making. Yes. You have, you do have to find a way to not so much be balanced. Like you're, you could say something's bad and it could be okay. You're allowed to feel that it's bad or good and it could be just okay or bad. Like their opinion is opinion. Yeah. But like, I think, I think you do have to try and thread this understanding that, um, that there are things that everybody's going to be able to understand when you say it. And there's things that you're going to have to explain. And when you explain it, you better, you know, have an explanation.
Jason Heaton Yeah, true. Like, you know, here's the chemical makeup of the bronze that they use for this Oris watch. And by the way, I feel like it's a little too bright on my wrist or something like that. You know, there's this objective component to it. Yeah, you're right.
James Stacey Yeah. So I think that's how I see it. I hope that answers the question. Um, Stefan, that's an interesting one for sure. And if not, I'm sure we can circle back sometime in the future. Next up, we've got one from Adam with a question that makes me somewhat uncomfortable.
Adam Hi, James and Jason. This is Adam with a question for you about watches nicknamed after people. We have all these cool watches out there that are associated with famous individuals like Rolex Paul Newman Daytona, Eugene Nina Rindt, many from Seiko like Colonel Pogue and Bruce Lee, etc. And I was wondering which watches would you like in 20, 30 years to be the future James Stacy, the Jason Heaton watch? Look forward to your response. Thanks.
James Stacey All right, Adam, that's a fun one. And also Tuesday, October 26, about noon, mark the first and only time that Jason and I are going to be directly compared to Paul Newman and Nina Wren in a sentence. It doesn't need to happen again, I don't think. But, you know, it is kind of a fun question. My gut says I don't need any watch named after me, but I guess that's a little bit of a cop out from a question. So I guess probably just whatever I end up wearing a lot, maybe the Explorer 2. Uh, maybe, maybe an SPB, something like that. I'd be great if it was a Seiko that feels about right.
Jason Heaton It'll be the future TGN watch that everybody's clamoring for. I know people are just hovering with their credit cards over. Um, yeah, yeah. Uh, geez, you know, I mean, I, I don't know. I don't, I, I kind of feel the same way. I think, uh, when I think of kind of my own personal style and what I might be attached to or, something ascribed to me might be more along the lines of a strap than it would be a watch. And lo and behold, there is a Heaton bund strap that, that, uh, that Houdinki shop is selling with my name on it, which, you know, it's my 15 minutes of fame, so to speak. And I think if anything, throwing a dive watch, like a T graph or something on a, on a leather bund strap, which will irritate a lot of people, I think it would be appropriate to kind of call that combination, uh, the Heaton.
James Stacey I like it. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. All right. That's a fun one and something of a thought provoking question. I definitely don't think our level of fame requires any nicknames at this point. It is a bit like picking your own nickname, isn't it? Yeah. Right. To suggest this. Yeah. Never. Not always a good look, but certainly a fun question and interesting one. Next up, we've got one from Tien about bronze bracelets.
Tien Hey, James and Jason. This is Tien from New York. I'm a big fan of the show. Been listening since the isolation tapes and I've been enjoying them ever since. My question's about bracelets. I have an IWC Spitfire Chronograph in bronze, and I'd like to get a bracelet. I was thinking a bronze bracelet, but I haven't been able to find one that I've liked online. I was wondering if you guys could recommend any. I appreciate the help in advance and keep up the great work.
Jason Heaton Well, Tien, that's a tough one. I mean, that's a tricky proposition and I'm, I'll admit that I came up empty when I was kind of casually looking around. I don't know which ones you researched yourself. So I, you know, I'm not sure if there would be a lot of overlap in something I would Google versus versus you or, or going on the forums and asking around. But I think the problem with, with getting an aftermarket bronze bracelet you know, and I know that some exist would be that it would have to really not only match the look and, and, possibly come close to the quality of the watch itself. And in case of an IWC, that's considerable. It's a pretty high bar, but also this chemical makeup of the bronze so that they kind of patina. Similarly, I think you might get a different type of bronze that would stay shiny while the watch starts to, you know, turn color more quickly or vice versa. And I think that could kind of lend a strange look. I, I would say in this case, you know, we usually push people towards things like, like James is a $22 mesh. Bracelet for his Bremont, but I think in the case of a bronze bracelet, you might just be out of luck or be better off just kind of sticking with some cool leather straps or something.
James Stacey I don't know, James, did you have any ideas? I did not find anything that looked good. Yeah. Um, that I thought would suit that watch or, or even a lot of them that, that, you know, sometimes there's little brands like smaller brands that are offering bronze bracelets as aftermarket to their, to a watch, a bronze watch they made previously. Like I think, uh, Zelos does this, uh, for the SF 40 is what I found when I was doing some Googling. Not knowing how the end link is going to fit would be an issue, right? Because presumably what you're looking for is either a straight link that could work just about anywhere, which I didn't see any of, or something with a fitted end link, which is going to be specific to that case. I think this is one where we might have to leave it up to the audience. If you're listening and you know of a bronze bracelet that's worth talking about, worth sharing with other people, that's nicely made and might suit a Spitfire, throw it in the show notes, notes.thegrenado.com. Let us know if there's anything out there that we might've missed. I did some Googling around to find something, and I didn't find... I found some people asking why there aren't more bracelets, is what I found most notably when I was digging through WatchySeek and such. So Tian, my apologies that Jason and I don't really have a specific suggestion or even a good idea for you, but maybe we can make it happen in the show notes. So if you've got an answer for Tian, please drop it in the show notes for episode 167. Appreciate it. Yeah. Next up, we've got a question from Tony concerning tulle and dress watches.
Tony Hi, Jason and James. It's Tony again from Sydney, Australia. Thanks very much for your suggestions. Re my New Zealand holiday, which we've now pushed back because of COVID, but we're definitely going later. I did buy the black hole pack. It looks fantastic. And when it came to the watch, After listening to some time of your sage wisdom, I decided to stretch the budget and get the Tudor Pelagos Blue, put it on the rubber strap and make that my outdoor slash adventuring watch. Here's my question. I also own a Rolex Sub, but due to the high price of these types of tool watches now in Australia, they're $15,000 plus. I didn't want to take it out necessarily and get it all dinged and banged at that price. What's your view on the shifting of the tool watch from being something you wore and got dings, et cetera, on it to something that's more of a dressy type watch and given the prices and has this opened the door for other brands, uh, your Orises, et cetera, to be that sort of companion on your adventures. Thank you again for answering these questions and the great podcast.
Jason Heaton Well, thanks for that one, Tony. Um, that's, you know, that's an interesting question. I think there are a few. kind of elements, uh, that, that relate to this. And I think one is, um, the idea that, that watches themselves are, are not the vital instruments in, in many cases that they used to be. Um, but also the fact that, um, there's, there's a notion that, that a lot of people ascribe to that if you do pay more for something, you should expect more from it and it will last longer and perform better. And I think in the case of a lot of high end luxury, let's say dive watches, like a Submariner or something, you know, you're paying what, eight, 9,000 for these things and, and you should expect them to hold up really well, uh, because of anti-shock anti-magnetic properties, um, you know, materials use ceramic bezels, et cetera. The other side of this is this notion of, you know, how do you treat things that you, you spend a lot on and how do you, what's your viewpoint on something like a watch? Is it something that, that you want to wear every day, you know, you paid a lot for it and you want to wear it every day and make it work for its, for its price. Um, and, and bang it up as much as you want and use it. Or, or do you do to say this is pretty precious. I don't really want to ruin this thing cause I want it to last. Um, I'm definitely in the former camp. I think I want this stuff to, you know, perform. Um, if I'm going to pay for it, I want to wear it and kind of make it my own. But I also feel that, uh, I can sympathize with people who, who feel the opposite. And I think, you know, this isn't just related to watches. I think you look at something like the new Land Rover defender, which, uh, you know, this is a vehicle that won't be used the same way that the older ones were used by farmers and the military and whatever, by and large. And, and it has opened the door for smaller, you know, Toyota pickups or Suzuki Jimneys in the markets that you can get those. And, and those are the things that people have turned to like, like you've mentioned or us on the watch side of things. So I think while I feel that, that, you know, if you're going to buy kind of a high end, dive watch and you really want to wear it, I think you should and expect it to perform. But I can also see the opposite viewpoint.
James Stacey So James, I suspect you feel similarly. I do. Absolutely. I would say that for me, I would want to be able to wear whatever I've got. And if the watch had its value had gone to such an extent that it made me uncomfortable, I'd probably sell it unless it had like, you know, special sentimental value, or if it was like a pure dress watch that I was comfortable only wearing a few times a year in scenarios where, you know, the likelihood of me banging it into something would be limited, you know, suit and tie sort of scenario or whatever, weddings, that sort of thing. I get all of that. You know, I think the other side that I would say is this is a pretty personal way, like the idea of what's expensive and what's not expensive is, you know, everyone's price sensitivity is very different. And if this watch is expensive to the point where you're uncomfortable wearing it, then don't wear it, right? If the watch is one that you intend to keep for a really long time and you just like the idea of keeping it in good condition, then yeah, wear it like a dress watch. That's perfect. I don't think there's any rules, right? None of us need to wear a watch. So we're all here by an elective nature. So I would say most of the rules can be ignored in whatever manner makes you the most happy. And if, yeah, if you're, if you would rather, you know, know that that watch was safe at home and not getting beat up, but you're not ready to sell it or you have no intention of ever selling it, then that's fine. There's, there's nothing wrong with taking really good care of something or, or, you know, that people throw around the term safe queen, but like, that's like, if you have enough watches to be in that scenario, that's not a bad scenario to be in. Yeah. And there's lots of opportunities when you're sitting at home or, or doing something chill, where you'd be able to wear that watch and you've got the Pelagos, which is, you know, by our estimate, probably the finest modern dive watch in existence. So you're certainly not... It's not like the Pelagos doesn't play second fiddle to anyone, including a Submariner when it comes to its ability to be a tool watch. So Tony, I would say, do whatever feels right for you. And I agree, the watches can get expensive and it feels weird to take them out and put them through the abuse that was kind of factored into an entirely different price when either they were first conceived or purchased or made or whatever. So I understand. I would say do whatever makes you feel most comfortable. And if it's something where the value of the watch is more than the watch means to you, then it's probably a good one to sell. Great time to sell something like a Rolex anyways. You'll get great money for it.
Jason Heaton All right. Next up, we've got a question from Rich who wants to know whether classic watches are also boring or vice versa.
Rich Hi, James and Jason. It's Rich here from Perth, Western Australia. and a big fan of the show. I've loved listening to it over the years. I just had a thought that I was interested in your thoughts on which was around the unpopular watch opinions and Jason's statement in a recent pod that his unpopular opinion was the Explorer was a boring watch and it touched on something that I've often thought about over the years and that the really timeless designs like the Submariner in dive watches and the Chronograph Speedmaster Professional. And as far as time-only sports watches, the Explorer, they're all fairly minimal, austere, monochromatic designs that, while they're timeless designs, they could also be labeled boring by a lot of people. So with my collection, I try to have a little bit of a mix of timeless watches that have been around for a long time and also watches that are more off the beaten track. And when it comes to the more iconic watches, it makes me question, are my tastes boring through collecting these watches or is that just the way design usually is if it endures? So I was just interested on your thoughts on that. And as I said, enjoy the show and keep up the great work. Thanks guys.
James Stacey All right, Rich, interesting question. Jason, do you figure they're boring or simply this is, this is how we kind of look at classic design, whether it be watches or even vehicles or whatever.
Jason Heaton Yeah. I mean, I think it's, it's 100% subjective. And I think the things that endure, uh, oftentimes they, they do that for a reason. I don't think people find a Submariner boring or, you know, my comment, uh, I don't know, a couple episodes ago about the Rolex Explorer being boring. That is entirely in my, in my own head. And, and James, you just got done saying that you wished you had bought an Explorer from, from Matt Bain when you were in Florida. And I think I own one as well. And I, you know, it's, it's a, it's a lovely watch. It's a, it's a perfectly good watch and it's iconic for a reason. But in most cases, my eye is drawn towards, you know, interesting, a little bit kind of left of center kind of strange things that, you know, AquaStar, DeepStar, an orange dial Doxa, um, you know, the Synchron Military, But I do also have a good quiver of just black dial dive watches, which are very mil spec, you know, derived, you know, uh, for legibility and straightforward functionality. And I think there's, there's room for both. I think something like, I guess it was an article I saw yesterday, the watch of the week thing about the Junghans Max Bill watches. I mean, you look at that watch, it's about as simple and stark as you can get. Um, I don't know that anyone would call it boring. Um, I guess I didn't read all the comments, but I don't have much, uh, much wisdom here to offer other than to say it. It's so subjective that one person's boring is another person's a classic.
James Stacey Yeah. Yeah. I think, I think that boring is, would be another way of saying like established. Right. And, and to become, to become as prolific as something like a Submariner, uh, the design had to be conservative. Yeah. And especially when you mix a conservative design, which maybe when it first came out, people were excited because it offered some things that other watches didn't offer or not many other watches offered. But nowadays, you see a sub, they're a fantastic watch, but they're definitely not special.
Unknown Yeah.
James Stacey Yeah. Right. They're around, you see them commonly. If you ever see one out in the wild, you've got a good chance it's fake. That's what comes with it being so prolific. Yeah. But it is that sort of double-edged sword sort of nature of something being established versus something being novel. And I think that both have their way. Do I think that a Speedmaster, a Submariner, these sorts are boring watches? In many ways, yeah, for sure. But also, I think that a bowl of chicken soup is boring, and I really like chicken soup. Yeah. Right. Like there's a reason it's, it's around and, and, and, and everybody has it, you know, like scrambled eggs are pretty boring, but I really like them. Imagine an actor who's been in, who for five, 10 years is in like every movie just because they're successful doesn't make them not really good at what they do. Right. Yeah. I think for a, I think for a Submariner to be boring, it would have to be nondescript or lacking in personality. And I don't think it is that right. or I don't think it's either of those things. Yeah. You know, I think that it is easy if you have a whole table full of watches to ignore the blacked out dive watches with blacked out chronographs. And that's why I really like a mix. I like a colorful dial. I love a white dial. I'd love a gold watch. And that's where I find some of my, my taste for novelty. Yeah. And the nice thing is, is the micro brand scene all the way up to docks that will keep you rotten with really fun, colorful watches. Yeah. Look at the brew metric. Look at, yeah, any doxa, look at, uh, um, fair, you know, level use of color and shape that doesn't feel old school. This is, this is a field where you can absolutely eat your cake and, uh, and have it too.
Jason Heaton Yeah. Good one, Rich. Uh, I guess the next one we have is from, uh, Jack, uh, who has a question about dual crown divers.
Jack Hey, James and Jason, this is Jack from Portland. I'm just back from a great dive trip in Mexico, where I was able to blow through depth charge during a couple of beach days. What a fun read. Thanks for not giving up on that dream, Jason. My question is about dual crown dive watches. I'm currently waiting on my pre-order of the new Baltic dual crown. On Jason's Talking Watches, he showed off some incredible dive horology history, but I didn't see any dual crown pieces. One of my pet peeves with dual crown watches is that many utilize a screw-down crown for the crown that adjusts the internal bezel. This makes them much harder to use, and it's nearly impossible to align that internal bezel perfectly because the screw-down procedure will invariably move the bezel just a little bit when screwing the crown in. In fact, I almost purchased a Bremont Argonaut until I realized that both crowns were screw-down. The Baltic Dual Crown, like many others, doesn't need a screw-down crown for moisture protection for the internal bezel due to the way that the internal bezel is operated. In fact, I don't actually wear a dive watch when I dive, as I have a wrist-mounted dive computer and a console-mounted backup. With the complexity of multi-dive days, switching between air and nitrox, I just haven't found a dive watch to add that much utility underwater. But I definitely love a dive watch topside, whether I'm on the beach or snorkeling, or just to remind myself during my office days that the next dive trip is not that far away. Anyway, I'd love to hear your take on dual-crown dive watches, pros, cons, and any of your favorites. Thanks for the great show.
James Stacey Hey Jack, thanks so much for the question. Yeah, I think that this is one where I've always found with my experience with a Dual Crown Diver is it's one of those watches where it really felt like form was put before function. Like a Dual Crown Diver, and if we go back to the compressor, the super compressors, Inacar stuff, like we're talking some seriously gorgeous watches, but from a UI standpoint, from the way that you interface and use the watch, really compromised, especially for diving. right? The idea that you would, you would be able to adjust that in the, in the water is, is pretty crazy. And then the, you know, let's say you set it on the boat, then you're off by a minute or two by the time you're in the water and you've got to put your glove back on if you're diving with gloves and, and all this kind of stuff. And I think that like there's, there's a little bit of logic here where if it ain't broke, don't fix it. And what they did was try and fix something that wasn't broken, a traditional bezel. And I think Like I said, they're really beautiful. And I think if you consider them more like a lifestyle watch, uh, Jack, like you mentioned, you don't take your watch actually diving so that it's ability to time a dive. Isn't that important? I think that's the sweet spot for a dual crown diver for sure. Snorkeling, uh, timing a pizza in the oven, uh, kicking around a vacation, maybe wearing it as a backup while diving. All of that is great. But if you, I think the tool uses have were largely established for good reason as having a bezel that could be rotated with your fingertips. And so I think that's why you don't necessarily see a lot of them, especially maybe among people who really like a traditional dive watch. But I do think that there's a time and a place for them and that you picked a real winner with the Baltic. That's a seriously good looking watch. Yeah, it sure is. The other one that jumps to mind, if you say a dual crown dive watch that I would not only take diving and just deal with the aforementioned headaches is like the AP Royal Oak Diver, just one of my favorite watches. And it has the crown that controls the internal bezel off on the side. It's a strange thing that I'm not even sure you could adjust that on your wrist. Jason, you've taken that diving, right?
Jason Heaton Yeah, and at that time I was wearing watches on my left wrist, which required really contorting my right hand to get the watch around.
James Stacey Yeah, because the crown that's at kind of where the HEV valve is on an Omega, that's the one that updates. So you kind of have to take it off your hand and hold it in two hands, and then you could use your left hand to set the bezel. But Like we're diving. You just want to spin the bezel and roll off the boat. Yeah. Right. Right. Yeah. But I, I, I don't know what to tell you. I think that's just an incredibly cool, super, super beautiful watch and one I would, I would absolutely love to wear and I would definitely want to take in the water.
Jason Heaton Yeah. It's, it's, it's one of these situations where I guess two things, you know, I think I've often said that watchmakers are, you know, a lot of watches are, are, you know, the people that made them were kind of looking for a solution to a problem that didn't exist. And I think this is one of those cases. And I, On the other hand, I absolutely adore dual crown, not just divers, but any watch, you know, the Bramont MB2, for instance, or, or, oh yeah, for sure. A number of these. And I think they're fantastic. And I, I often think that, you know, looking back, if I decided to kind of just start a collection from scratch and focus on one area to just focus on collecting dual crown super compressors would be just a cool, cool thing to do. Cause there've been so many good ones over the years. You know, the, the original Aqua timer from high WC was such a beautiful watch. Oh yeah. Um, On the other hand, you know, the, the first watch that I had that actually leaked on me during a dive was a thousand meter IWC Aqua timer. It was one of the steel twin crown ones from, I guess the early two thousands. And after that, I got a little squeamish about, about dual crown divers. Now that one had the seal, the crown that manipulated the internal timing ring, um, was supposed to seal tighter, the deeper you went. And then you weren't supposed to be able to twist the crown because it kind of disengaged or something. It was just over-engineered and just didn't work as well as it did in theory. But that said, I would love another one because they're just such cool-looking watches, and they're fun to wear topside. And I think, Jack, you don't wear these watches diving, so go ahead and just have a blast with them. Just enjoy them. I personally have never had a problem with bezel alignment kind of getting knocked off when you're screwing in a crown. But James, did you have that?
James Stacey You tried the Argonaut, didn't you? I had the Argonaut, and they use the Rotoclick. system, which is the same on all of the... Like the MB2s have them, so it's a ratcheted internal system, and when you push the crown in, it disengages the rotoclick. Okay. So when you actually go to screw it to turn it down, you're just screwing the crown into the threading, you're not manipulating the bezel. I didn't have any trouble setting that watch, and because of the shape of the crowns, I was able... That's one I could do on wrist.
Unknown Oh, yeah.
James Stacey I think that's a good one. I mean, it's certainly a good looking watch. I don't think it's as useful as the bezel on my 300 or a 500 or something like that, but I don't think it's super compromised. That rotoclick makes a big difference. If you've had any of their watches that have it, not only is it like it feels really good, but it also like to play with it is really fun because it clicks. There's like a tactile click as you're rotating the... And it feels very sturdy is how I would describe it. Yeah. Yeah, fun question and yeah, long live Jewel Crown divers for sure, just maybe not always for diving. Next up, we've got Nick with a question about a wedding anniversary watch.
Nick Hey, James and Jason, this is Nick from St. Louis, Missouri. I love TGN and the content you guys put out on other platforms as well. I'm looking for some advice on a watch for my wedding anniversary. My wife and I are coming up on our 10th and we plan on marking the occasion with a ring for her and a watch for me. My budget is between $3,000 and $5,000 and I won't be at this price range again for a while, so I want to make it count. I'm looking for one that will be an everyday watch and has classic styling, but one that still stands out and has some wrist presence. I would love engraving it and having it as an heirloom piece. Something that will be great for multiple strap options would be a plus. I've been considering this purchase for over a year and started with the goal of an Omega Seamaster 300 Professional. My watch journey has led me to a few more options, including the Black Bay GMT and the IWC Pilot Chronograph Spitfire reference 387903. I love the vintage look of that one. What are your thoughts on these selections? What else would you recommend? If I go with the Seamaster, I'm also looking for advice on choosing between the classic and somewhat iconic blue dial or the black dial, which might give me a little bit more versatility. Thanks for the advice.
James Stacey Jason, what do you think for a wedding anniversary watch from those picks?
Jason Heaton Yeah, I mean, I love all three of his picks. Nick, I think I think any of those would be fantastic. I actually had a hard time coming up with something, some other options, because I think you're talking, you know, big, proper established Swiss brands, uh, great watches. Um, I guess my, my only other suggestion would be to maybe consider, I guess of the three, the, the Omega, even though, you know, I have the white dial version of that, that Seamaster Pro, I think if this is like one of those memento pieces that you want to have for a very long time, it might not age as well as some of the more classics like the Black Bay GMT or the Spitfire. On the other hand, it's distinctive, but I would also consider maybe looking at the Seamaster 300 Master Coaxial. I think those are beautiful watches as well. It's more of the kind of the vintage look. And then I was thinking also, what does an Oyster Perpetual go for? Is that in that price range, James, or is it just eek out just the top of that?
James Stacey I think it could be over four, and I don't think you can get one. Oh yeah, true. I don't think they're buyable right now because I've priced out the yellow orange 36 millimeter OP a few times. I think in Canada it's about six grand. So you're probably close at about four grand. But man, you'd have to get awfully lucky or have a great relationship with an AD to get it. That's just the sad fact of it's a steel Rolex.
Unknown Yeah, true.
James Stacey Let alone the fact that I think it's probably the coolest watch they make right now, those 36 millimeter OPs with the colorful dials. but they're hard to buy just like the rest of it. So yeah, my feeling is the only one that I would add is if you're going in to try on a Black Bay GMT, try on the 58 as well. A blue 58 is a strap monster. It'll age beautifully. You can get it engraved, really nicely made, has a great bezel, good water resistance. It's not a watch you'd have to worry about. It's also, and this is what I would say about the Omega as well, is the Omega and the 58 are both really incredible everyday watches. Like if you, if you want to enjoy your anniversary watch and think about the, you know, the woman you love and where the watch, you know, five, six, seven days a week, those are two really good picks. Like half the time when you meet someone who has one of the old Bond Seamasters, it's the only watch they own. Yeah, true. And they just, it's been to hell and back and it looks awesome. Maybe they've got it on a different strap. Maybe it's still on the Bond bracelet. So I think those watches are killer everyday watches. I don't think there's a lot of engraving space on the Omega.
Unknown Hmm.
James Stacey Like at all? I think there's none. You might even have to do a case band engraving.
Jason Heaton Yeah. Which is a fun option. Yeah.
James Stacey Yeah. I've never warmed up to it, but I think on the right watch, at least on that watch, like if you did a case band engraving on the BBGMT, which especially if you've experienced the 58 is a very thick watch, you know, it's under 15. So we're not saying it's not like globally, it's not like thick compared to the whole market. But once you try on the 58, it did kind of change my opinion of the sizing of the the GMT. So I think those ones are worth considering. If you can get your hands on a 58, I don't think you can go wrong there. You definitely can't go wrong with a BB GMT if it suits your wrist, but it has that sort of... And again, it can be engraved, but it has a taller profile on wrist, and straps can help with that. It was a lot on the bracelet, but I did enjoy it on various straps. It's been a few years since I had one of those on wrist, but a lot of the story from Tudor these days is the 58. I think they've had a huge amount of success with that size. The last one that I think comes to mind, and it's a little bit special because of the material, and I think it kind of lends itself more to an heirloom, which I think you might be creating with this purchase, is the Black Bay 925, the silver one. So it's the 58 size case, but it's made of sterling silver. It's a strange watch. You can read some reviews. I believe Mike Stockton did a really lovely review, a long-term review of his. so you can get an idea of how the metal kind of wears and tarnishes and the rest of it. It doesn't have a bracelet, so if that matters to you, that's a thing. But it's $4,300, so we're getting towards the top of the price point. But I think that's a more special watch that would be great on a lot of straps, still super wearable, but be something different than your other steel dive watches. So that would be my other suggestion. But yeah, Nick, whatever it is you choose, please let us know. Drop us an email or a follow-up at some point, a DM. I'm always keen to hear what people pick. And to be fair, you know, neither Jason and I touched really deeply on the IWC. If that watch suits your style, killer. They make a great watch. Just a fantastic watch. Very different than a dive watch, of course, but a great choice. So I think you've got a lot of winners there. I would just say, consider the 58. And if the silver seems appealing, see it in person. The color's very different than you might expect from some of their images.
Jason Heaton Yeah, that's a good pick. I like that one. We'll finish up with, with one from Dan who wants to know if we've had any kind of a sketchy, scary adventure stories.
Dan Hey guys, this is Dan Marganski out of Austin, Texas calling in. Just wanted to ask you guys a question or something that came to mind. I thought this would be a fun question for the podcast. What is the scariest moment that you've had while scuba diving or hiking or adventuring? Something like that. Something that like a spooky moment or, something where you thought you might get hurt or injured or something like that. I don't know. Just something, you know, you guys are always talking about doing these cool activities and there's gotta be some danger involved. So I'd love to hear about it. Thanks. Keep up the great work.
James Stacey Jason, you got any, uh, any terrifying stories to share? I can think of the one that probably jumps to your mind.
Jason Heaton Yeah. I mean, I, I guess I've got two diving ones. I've, you know, one of my early earliest dives, uh, I was very poor on air consumption and, uh, I was diving with a very experienced, what they call an InstaBuddy. It was a guy that I met at the dive site and he was very experienced and we were doing a wreck dive in Lake Superior, um, with a long surface swim. And, uh, you know, he was all prepared for a really fun, fun, nice long dive. And, uh, and we got down there and I think I blew through my tank and, you know, 13, 14 minutes or something like that. And, and immediately kind of signaled to him, like, I'm really low on air. And he gave me this really quizzical look and then he's like, Oh, he kind of shook his head like, Oh, geez, you know, this guy. So we started swimming back towards shore underwater. He was a little ways ahead of me. And suddenly I took a few breaths and I had nothing. I was, I was empty and I had to kind of quick, quickly kind of kick to catch up to him and get his attention. And he gave me his, uh, his long, uh, secondary air, his octopus. And we swam in like that. And it was, you know, it was a, it was an eyeopening early dive experience. And then. Um, and then my other experience was, was, uh, losing a dive buddy on a, on a wreck dive in the Florida Keys where, you know, she, she got separated from us, uh, pretty seriously with a very strong current and surfaced. And, uh, and we had to go in and call the coast guard and do 30, 40 minutes of, of big radius, certain, you know, circuits and in the boat trying to find her and the sun was going down and, and waves were choppy and it was, uh, It was pretty dicey. It was, it was a scary experience. And, uh, unfortunately she had a, an inflatable buoy with her and I was able to spot her from a distance and all was well, but it was, uh, it was, it was another eye opener that, you know, these things all teach you lessons about, about how to stay safe and to keep a buoy handy and to keep an eye on your air and all that stuff. So, um, don't want to repeat them, but definitely good, good learning experiences for sure. Yeah. How about you? I think we had a question like this before, didn't we?
James Stacey I think we have. I've never had any close calls, at least none that I'm aware of. I'm going to be honest that my level of awareness, especially as an early diver, was very compromised. Learning to dive can be very humbling, especially in cold water. Um, you really come up very quickly with your own physical and personal and mental limitations. Yeah. Thankfully I, that just led me to become a very cautious diver and even a boring diver would be the easiest word to use. But I've seen, I've seen some weird stuff. You know, I've had a couple of people in dive groups become severely narked and make very strange decisions. And that's terrifying because you do kind of feel like you're watching somebody possibly make the last few decisions of their life. Yeah. I remember we did a dive on Porto Cove. Um, there's, it was a big group. It was like a Sunday fun dive. And one of the other people in the group was this kind of elderly guy. I would say he was in his, um, it's probably in his seventies, uh, late sixties, seventies. He got down to the bottom of one of the wrecks, which is on a boy. So you just go down a line. We sat for a little while, then the team got broken up. So one of our dive masters left and we just kind of sat there at about 108 feet, which is deep enough. If you're moving around in cold water, you can go through air pretty quickly. So after a few minutes, you're trying to read other people and see who seems to be pretty comfortable, because then you don't have to worry about them. Because you can't just leave, right? I actually wasn't entirely sure how to get back to the boat from where we were, just in the sand. And Jason, you and I actually swam through this area when we went from the one wreck to the far wreck at Porto. So we were just in this gray zone of sand, And, um, everybody else was, was very relaxed, neutral, buoyant, just kind of floating off the deck. And this guy was just pig penning like in peanuts, uh, just fin and fin in the sand until none of us could see anything. And then I, you know, I could tell that he, he was pretty amped up. Eventually our, our dive, our main dive master came back. We kind of like highlighted this guy's behavior. So she's like, all right, let's all go back to the line, took us back to the line. we get to the line, which is attached to a big boat. And he's at the very bottom standing vertically as a human would in a normal gravity scenario on the bottom, picking up rocks and trying to put them in his pockets. Cause he's worried he's underweight and he's going to shoot up and hurt himself. Right. And he was in very high end gear. He was properly weighted. He probably had the nicest gear of anyone there. Beautiful custom dry suit, plenty of weight, And he's like handing me and other people rocks and trying to like, get them, get us to put them in his pockets on his dry suit. And I mean, his pupils were huge. He looked really genuinely concerned. So it ended up just two of us kind of grabbed him by the harness and like very slowly, like it took way too long, got him up 20 feet and the fog faded. And, um, and he, he was normal again. And then we like got to the top, swam all the way back and He, he was like for at least the first few minutes until the dive master kind of confronted him about it. He was in complete denial that it had been a weird dive. Oh yeah. Yeah. Um, so I've seen that. I saw some really, there was some strange behavior in, in some, on some of the diving and Clipperton, especially with how dangerous that diving was due to being how remote it was. We had, we had a diver drop his weight for almost no reason, which is insane. Right. Um, we had, uh, yeah, just, just some stuff where you're kind of like, I can't really fully, just relax and enjoy this dive. I am worried about this person and I don't know. Uh, you know, I, I think I've talked about getting lost on crown mountain and just thinking I was on the trail and I ended up essentially like scaling a ledge that I couldn't really carefully climb down. And it was pretty hard getting down. I fell a few times and they were like big falls, um, in exceedingly steep terrain. Like a rope would have been smart at that point.
Jason Heaton Isn't it funny how, Isn't it funny how, you know, scary scenarios or dangerous scenarios that you get yourself into diving, those scenarios are very, very different. They feel very immediate, very, very like I'm going to die within minutes or I'm observing someone who's going to die within minutes or whatever. But like getting lost in the woods is this like creeping sense of dread. Oh, sure. Where, you know, I'm not going to die immediately, but I'm going to die. If I, you know, if I can't find my way, it's going to get dark and all the thoughts start to creep into your head. It's a much slower burn.
James Stacey Yeah, for me it wasn't, I didn't even, the scenario didn't last long enough for that. So this is before I was using a GPS enabled watch. I was just using a Rangeman. I actually broke it. I fell. So I fell and grabbed a branch on my way down a slope and twisted my wrist so far that it broke the spring bar that holds the buckle on the Rangeman. And so the watch went 40 or 50 feet further down where I would have landed. And I kind of hopscotched my way down and found it. Uh, never found the buckle. Um, it was just one of those things where I thought I was following the trail and the trail markers were white. And I was looking at what I thought was a trail marker. And it was like some light, some light colored lichen in bright sunlight. Oh yeah. And I ended up just committing myself to a ledge that I couldn't back climb. And then when I got to the top, I realized I was like an entire small Valley away from where I should have been. And I had to find my way down. And at that point you go like, well, there's a good chance I'm going to get hurt here. I don't think I'm going to die. Yeah. Or like I can see Vancouver. I could call somebody if I needed to. Yeah. Cell phone was working once I was up, up, up out of Hadley Valley. But yeah, I've done lots of stupid stuff like that. I would say probably the most, the, the, the easy fact is you want to know what probably the most dangerous stuff I've ever done was, was driving on press strips. Oh, people drive like complete maniacs. And there were lots of times where I was right seat, you know, you share a car and you learn pretty quickly to, to keep driving with people you've driven with before that are like, have some self-control. And this is coming from a guy who got some speeding tickets on press trips and that kind of stuff. I'm not saying I'm some pillar of self-control or talent behind the wheel, but I have a normal sense of danger, I think, and self-preservation, and I didn't always see that in other people. You'd know that you had a couple hundred kilometers before you're getting to the next whatever, and you'd be like, maybe I take a nap, and then you'd be like, nah, I'm not sleeping. So yeah, that's probably, those are the stuff that jumps to mind anyways.
Jason Heaton Alright, well I think we'll leave it there. It was a good crop. I mean I think last month we finished all the questions we got and this month we got even more than we could finish this time.
James Stacey So great.
Jason Heaton Thank you so much to everyone for sending them in. Definitely, really appreciate it. It was a really good, interesting one with a nice variety of questions.
James Stacey Yeah. So as always, thank you so much for listening. You can subscribe to The Show Notes via notes.thegrenado.com, or you can check the feed for more details and links. You can also follow us on Instagram at Jason Heaton, at J.E. Stacey, and at TheGrenado. And if you have any questions for us, just like you just listened to, please write thegrenado at gmail.com or send in a voice memo, which we can use in a future Q&A. We've got, oh man, at least another 10 or 12 waiting for next month. So please send them in. It doesn't have to be about watches. It doesn't have to be about, you know, danger while diving. It can be whatever's on your mind that you think might be a fun question. We can do that too. And if you're enjoying the show, please subscribe and review wherever you find your podcast. Music Throat is siesta by Jazzer via the free music archive.
Jason Heaton And we leave you with this quote from Marcus Aurelius, who said, the opinion of 10,000 men is of no value if none of them know anything about the subject.