The Grey NATO - 164 - September Q And A

Published on Thu, 07 Oct 2021 06:00:37 -0400

Synopsis

This episode of The Graynado podcast features hosts Jason Heaton and James Stacey answering listener questions on a variety of topics related to watches, travel, and outdoor activities. They discuss topics including boating, modifying luxury watches, neo-classic cars from the 1990s-2000s, GMT watch functionality, and scuba diving with asthma. The hosts provide their perspectives and experiences on these subjects, offering advice and insights to listeners. They also touch on broader themes like watch branding and marketing. The casual, conversational format allows the hosts to explore different angles on each question while sharing their expertise.

Transcript

Speaker
Jason Heaton Hello and welcome to another episode of The Graynado, a loose discussion of travel, diving, driving, gear, and most certainly watches. This is episode 164 and we thank you for listening. James, September is a distant memory and it's time for our Q&A. You ready for it?
James Stacey Yeah, yeah. No, I think this is great. We got, uh, you know, those who listened to the last one know that we, we pretty much got through all the questions that we had. We got a big stack, way more than we're going to get to in this episode, but I'm pretty pumped. There's no reason to belabor it when it comes to the Q&A episodes. It's just questions and just answers. So how about we jump right in with this first one from Matt about boating? Yes, let's do it.
Matt Hey, James and Jason. Matt here from beautiful Oshawa, Ontario. Big fan of the show, and I've been listening for the past few years. I have a two part question for you. The first part being if either of you are into boating, I do remember some sailboat stories in past episodes. I'm just wondering if you guys do anything else on a regular basis. I do a bit of canoeing and portage trips, and I've recently gotten into kayaking, and I'm planning on doing a beginner lesson for whitewater kayaking next summer. And that leads me to my second question, as I'll be taking my 42mm Blue Captain Cook on that trip. This is the watch that I want to hand down to my son as it shares our namesake. Do either of you have any plans to hand down any of your watches, either to friends or family? Anyways, thanks for the time and keep doing what you're doing.
James Stacey All right, Matt, thanks so much for that question. Ahoy from a fellow Ontario man. And also, I have lots of family in Oshawa. It's where my dad's family was based for most of his life. So a good town and a pleasure to hear from you. Jason, where do you land on the first half of this, the boating and your interest in boating?
Jason Heaton Yeah, I've got a strong interest in boating. I was, uh, I was actually just sailing last week with a friend on a local Lake and I, I adore sailing. Um, I've had some. The good fortune of going on a couple of press trips for the Volvo ocean race and America's cup and been out on some of those boats and, um, and then kind of some more leisure sailing. And, and, you know, I think what it comes down to is I think I'm better off knowing somebody with a boat than owning one as much as I'd love to, you know, my dream would be to live on a sailboat and a Marina and kind of just go cruising. you know, into retirement, but you know, let's face it, it's expensive and there's a lot of knowledge and, um, kind of apprenticing that needs to happen before that would, would take place. So I think I'll, I'll stick to kind of just crewing for friends. And then, you know, in terms of, of my own boat, um, cause Shani and I have a pair of kayaks that we take out on the local lakes and the Creek, uh, try to get out a few times a year. And, um, I don't know. I love being on water. I think, uh, the perspective of, Of looking back at land from the middle of a lake is, is like nothing else. And just that kind of that feeling of being in the water is, is really cool. So, uh, yeah. What about you? You've got a kayak at the lake, right?
James Stacey I do. Yeah. We have like, I think it's a 14 foot, a two man. Um, you know, you can use it in pretty, it's, it's a, it's a good one. I think it's heavy at least, uh, you know, I don't know a ton about kayaks. I've been in it a couple of times, haven't been in it this year. Uh, which is probably something I should remedy. This is a nice time of year to be out on the kayak, uh, just cause the sun feels a little bit less intense. Yeah. Um, besides that, I mean, ever since I was as young as I could be, I like driving things a lot as I'm sure many of you, but like it could be tractors, cars, boats, whatever, whatever, somebody will let me drive, especially if it's new or I haven't done it before. Um, and, and so as a kid, I definitely went out and got my boaters license, which is something you need here in Ontario. And I still have that and, you know, kind of cut my teeth on ski boats and fishing boats and things like that. And while I agree with you, Jason, kind of, as I do, um, this is how I feel about dogs as well as I like I like knowing somebody with a great dog that I don't have to be the caretaker for. Same thing goes with boats, whether it be a ski boat or a sailboat. I am lucky enough that my cousin is a very talented sailor and has offered to teach us and we just haven't found some time, but I'm hoping it'll work out this fall, get on Lake Ontario. I could definitely see like a laser or a small catamaran or like a legitimately small catamaran in my future. I love the idea of sailing and I'm excited to cut my teeth on a sail at some point in the future.
Unknown Yeah.
James Stacey Cool. And what about, uh, passing, passing, you know, watches on to offspring or otherwise?
Jason Heaton Yeah. Um, the, the first option is, is, is not an option for me. I don't have any offspring, at least that I know of. Um, but I am taking offers for, uh, for adoptees, uh, cause I do have this burgeoning collection of watches and, uh, not quite sure what's going to happen with them. I, I suspect what I'll do is just kind of slowly sell them off as some kind of a really poor retirement strategy, but no, I don't have anybody to pass them on to. So I have, uh, you know, nieces and nephews, um, that I don't think are really into watches. So I'm not sure that, uh, that that's going to happen, but, uh, but, uh, not, not your case. You have, you have a couple of kids that, uh, that hopefully will inherit some of your cool pieces.
James Stacey Yeah, I've got a couple of kids and my guess is I'll, I'll end up either willing them or giving it away. But you know, before I'm, before I shuffle off a box of watches, a big Pelican case of some sort, they're, they're, you know, very young still they're casually interested in watches. We, we got them both those Parchees the kind of like kids kind of playful watch that our friend Cara, her brand that she launched earlier this year. And I liked those quite a bit and they really enjoy them. And that's fantastic. You know, I would say that it's less of a point of consideration in my life now where naturally anything, if I were to pass away today or whatever, would go on to them. But looking on a more long-term, I think, you know, I definitely think about it now when I buy watches where I didn't a couple of years ago. Yeah. Whether it be the size of the watch, I think even some of my shift towards watches under 40 millimeters is because I would like them to work for whomever might wear them after me.
Unknown Yeah.
James Stacey And there's something a little bit more universal about, say, 36 to 40 than there is about, say, 43 to 47. Not just a gender thing, but like just in terms of normal wrist sizes and tastes and preferences and that sort of thing. Right. So I think about that kind of stuff. But yeah, at this point, I have a few that are kind of watches, I think, that are kind of mine and will align. I like the ones where you have pictures that they'll have of you wearing the watch and then they can have the actual watch. I think that's kind of fun, whether it be me at the top of Baker or or whatever, where I've got these various watches on. So that kind of stuff all factors in. I'm a pretty sentimental guy in the kind of at my core when it comes to things. And I like to have things from my grandparents and little collectibles and trinkets. And so, yeah, I hope that they find some value in it. I'm sure some of them should just be sold though. If we're talking 30, 40 years from now, you don't need all of them. Right. Yeah. Some of them were only kind of special to me or you end up for reasons that aren't especially sentimental. Uh, but yeah, I think, uh, certainly a fun question. Uh, you know, I hope you get lots more time out on the water, Matt. Uh, next up, we have another question from a different Matt, uh, about, uh, vessels.
Matt Hey guys, this is Matt in Columbus, Ohio. I love the show and I hope you're recovering from your surgery. Well, Jason, for my question, I wanted to make sure we got in your monthly Pelagos chat. I'm targeting a higher end diver as my next big purchase. So it's obviously been on the short list, the LHD specifically, and I have managed to handle one in the metal and it's a really great piece. But the one thing that bothers me is the 60-click bezel. The same goes for the Black Bay 58, for that matter. I know diving bezels aren't meant to be precision timing complications, but 120 seems to be the standard across many other brands, and sometimes my ramen noodles just start their boil in the middle of a minute. If my Seiko Monster can have a 120-click bezel, why does Tudor get away with only 60? And why does it seem like no one ever talks about this? Am I alone in being annoyed by this? Thanks for all your great content, and keep up the good work. Depth charge was a blast.
Jason Heaton Well, thanks for that question, Matt. Um, gosh, you know, I, I guess I haven't given much thought. I haven't spent, uh, enough time at least recently with a Pelagos, but you know, thanks for letting us get a Pelagos chat into this episode. We were certainly need it. 60 click bezel. Uh, you know, it doesn't really bother me, I guess if I'm between minutes and it's really a crucial thing, I'll, you know, just set it back a click just to be safe. Um, but you know, if you're using it for, for diving use, it doesn't really You know, you don't really need that level of precision that requires a half minute, um, unless you're doing deco stops and then you're probably using a dive computer anyway. But it is, I guess it is kind of curious why tutor didn't go with, with 120 clicks, uh, for the Pelagos. Um, I don't know. Uh, it's odd. I'm not sure what the black Bay has. I'm guessing that's 120. James, do you know more about this?
James Stacey Yeah, they're, they're 60. They're to my understanding. They're all 60, definitely a black Bay 58 is 60 clicks. Um, so there's a few things, one 60s, the traditional for a dive watch it, the, the bezel is designed to offer one minute resolution for diving. So it is one of those kind of holdovers. The other side is, um, 120. Um, it is, uh, easy. It's easier to make a 120 click bezel that doesn't feel sloppy than it is to make a 60 click bezel that doesn't feel sloppy because you have double the gap, if you imagine, between one click and another. The amplitude of the click, I think I'm using that... The frequency of the click is higher, it's double. So it's a lot easier to make a bezel that feels high quality when you use 120 click setting rather than a 60. 60, it's a little bit prestigious, it's a little bit harder to do. And if you're talking about the Pelagos, you're talking about arguably the best bezel in existence, or at least one of them. Um, the, the 60 click is awesome. I know that there's a tactile reason for it, where if you want to do five minutes, you can rotate the bezel five clicks. You can hear and feel the click in your fingers. And, uh, and I think that that's meant to be a little bit faster and easier. There's something about 120 where I lose count immediately in, in trying to figure out, you know, you have to use the arrow to the, to the point. There's something a little bit more like, let's say you wanted to add two minutes to your. Pelagos is just two clicks. It's easy. You don't even have to look down at it. Right. And I think that's where that comes in. I think there's, there's a, uh, an excellence or like an attempt at excellence in machining something that's a little bit more difficult. And it's the continuation of sort of, uh, uh, a traditional design point, which is one minute resolution. I know that people want more and maybe are going between the half minutes on, on those options, but in, uh, in many ways, you're, you're kind of fighting the traditional versus the what's possible at a cheaper price point. And when you, you see a lot of watches with 120 click, cause it's easier to manufacture without the bezel feeling sloppy. Oh, sure.
Unknown Okay.
James Stacey Well, and, uh, thanks very much for that question as always. Uh, next up, we've got one from G about, uh, how watches wear.
G Hello, Jason and James. My name is G from Korea and my Instagram is no box, no paper. In the past you to talk about how certain watches were differently than initially expected. based on what the dimension says. For instance, James talked about the Tudor Black Bay GMT that wears nicely due to its beveled bottom sides of the case and thick domed crystal. And Jason talked about how Synchron Military wears smaller due to its relatively short lug-to-lug and smaller dial size. I always like to try watches on the metal to see how it really feels. But with the pandemic, it's difficult for most of us to do so. So my question is, what are some tips to look out for to see how a watch would actually feel? One thing I can think of is watches with long lugs and smaller case size, such as Stova and Nomos offering that felt larger than I thought they would. Thanks for all you do and take care.
Jason Heaton Well, Gee, thanks for the question. You know, I think, um, really, if you can't get hands on time with a watch, the best way to, to see how it'll look would be to find, um, photos of these watches on people's wrists. And, you know, hopefully you can do that in, in, arenas or forums in which you can ask some questions, you know, in terms of wrist size, um, or how it wears, you know, vis-a-vis another watch that's maybe similar. So, you know, if you look at something like a known entity, or maybe it's a watch that you own, um, let's just say a Seiko turtle or something like that, you know, you can then say, how does it wear in comparison to an SKX or a turtle? Uh, if you're talking about a Doxa or a Tudor or something like that, um, I think that lug-to-lug measurement is becoming more commonly seen, especially, you know, Hodinkee started to do more of that, obviously, with reviews. But, you know, people are just paying more attention to that because that really is the deciding factor as to how a watch will wear on any given wrist. And then there are just those common features of watches that make them wear either bigger or smaller. A slim bezel with you know, a lot of dial tends to wear bigger, which can be good for a small watch. And then something like that Synchron Military with kind of, or a Doxa, where you have a lot of case and bezel, and then a tiny dial kind of actually sort of shrinks the watch because the visible area that you're actually reading just looks smaller, like looking through a porthole. That's kind of my input on that one.
James Stacey Yeah, I would say largely the same thing. You know, I've seen like your terrific Evan, your terrific one on Instagram. Evan's a listener. I assume he'll get to this episode at some point. He's even done some, uh, through his YouTube channel, somebody, I believe somebody else was able to help him measure the like actual area of the watch. So not just the case width in the length, but the actual like physical square millimeters of a watch versus another watch. And it allows you to kind of predict what its actual kind of footprint is, if you will. I think of this a few ways. I think the dial thing is very important. Try and consider the ratio of the size of the dial versus the size of the case. If you're talking about a watch that's mostly case, they typically wear smaller. Mostly dial, they wear bigger, just like Jason said. The other one that I think is definitely worth doing is learn a little bit... If you have access to Photoshop, learn a little bit about rendering things in a two printable size. Because let's say you're spending a lot of... If you're gonna spend a few hundred dollars on a Seiko, that's similar to a Seiko in size that you already have or whatever, maybe don't go to this extent. But if you're spending a bunch of money on a watch that you've never seen in person, make yourself a little template and print it out and put it on your wrist. It won't capture the thickness, but it'll capture some of the other things. You'll have to draw some conclusions with your imagination from there, but I think that's a good option. And then whatever you can do is if you try and work from a piece of data that you have, a watch that you already own, that's, let's say hopefully loosely similar, if not very similar. And if it's only loosely similar, try and consider the, the, the way in which the watch you're looking at is, is proportionally different to the watch that you can hold and put on your wrist and then, and then make your predictions from there. But, you know, admittedly, it's, it's, it's a difficult time for this and it's always kind of difficult depending on the brand you're looking for, even without a global pandemic. But try and see the watch in person if you can, or like Jason said, maybe reach out to someone, you know, on Instagram that has it and ask your questions to them. Maybe they can pop out a, uh, a set of calipers and tell you how, how big the dial is. And you can, you can kind of divine from that a ratio based on a watch that you've already got. Dig into the data as deep as you can would be my suggestion and try and get some numbers to understand some of the differences because the rest is all going to come down to just how it hits your gut. And that's impossible to predict from even an image, let alone some numbers.
Jason Heaton Yeah. Boy, you're a cut out a template. It's a great idea. That's a, that's good advice.
James Stacey Yeah. It's a, it's something that I wish a few brands would just make a little bit easier. It had been popular in the past to offer these, like, here's a PDF, print the PDF, cut it out and, and then put the watch on. And, and, you know, I think they wanted, they kind of wanted people to be doing that and then taking a picture of this paper watch on their wrist. But I actually think there's some merit to this being a reasonable way. I've also seen people on Reddit go to the extent of 3D printing a physical blank of the watch. This is for the differences, I believe, between the smaller Santos and the larger Santos. I can go back and find it, but goodness, finding an old post on Reddit is borderline impossible if you didn't save it. So no promises. But they had found some loose measurements online of the various aspects of the watch, and then they made it in CAD, I guess, or whatever you use for 3D printing, some sort of CAD, and then had these two kind of off-white plastic blanks that they drilled a little lug hole in and could put a strap on and actually get an idea for the size of the watch. And I think that's very clever. And maybe in some ways, there's a little business there. where if you're a really talented 3D printer, you could maybe help people buy an expensive watch that they've never seen in person. But yeah, I think those are kind of your options. If you're spending the kind of money and you're that deep into 3D printing, maybe that's even better than a bit of paper and some Photoshop math. I'm not sure.
Unknown Yeah.
James Stacey Next up, we've got a question from David concerning Christopher Ward watches.
David Hello, Jason and James. This is David from Superior, Colorado, just outside of Boulder. I'm a longtime listener and supporter of the show. Thank you so much for the thoughtful and interesting content, particularly over the past 15 months. It's been nice to have something to look forward to each week. My question relates to Christopher Ward. I do not hear much about these watches, but recall James stating that it was a brand he had difficulty connecting with. I have a 38 millimeter Trident GMT dive watch, which exhibits finish quality equal to, and perhaps exceeding in some respects, my Bremont MB3LE. and Doxa Sub 300. I find it to be an excellent travel watch having taken it to East Africa and to the tropics. Do you think the lack of coverage and connection is related to their direct purchase model, which bypasses boutiques? I realize taste is subjective, but I'm curious why a brand that seems to have good quality, decent Swiss movements and competitive pricing is not among those we often hear about. I'd be interested in your thoughts. Thanks for taking my question and massive thanks for all you do.
James Stacey Hey, David, thanks very much for that question. Yeah, you know, we get the the Christopher Ward prompt with some frequency. And the truth is, it's just a brand that I don't I don't have any. They're not just not on my radar. I'm sure that they're a lovely brand. They seem to be quite popular. I remember loosely when they came out. It was some time ago. And then they changed their name from Christopher Ward to like CHW or CH.Ward or something like that. And I think that maybe felt kind of confusing or needless or whatever. And beyond that, I think I've only ever seen a couple in person. They were trying the dive watches and yeah, they seem nice. Not always my aesthetic, but certainly seemed like a nice watch. And I mean, more specifically, I cover a ton of watches that are direct to consumer. Not only not available in something like the Hodinkee shop, but even you just have to buy it through the website. So that doesn't bother me at all. Uh, but for whatever reason, uh, I, you know, I'm, I'm not really in there in, in that circle, uh, to, to see what's new from them or, or otherwise. And, uh, and they, they certainly seem to have their fans and I'm sure they make a, they make a great watch. Jason, you have any, any overlap? Have you had a Christopher Ward in the past?
Jason Heaton I haven't, and I've spent very little time with him. I've, I've seen a few kind of in the wild on, on people's wrists and they certainly seem well-made. I think they've got a good reputation. Um, you know, handsome pieces. I think the impression I have, and I don't want to. insult Christopher Ward or anybody that likes them. But, um, you know, the sense of you, you go into a restaurant, uh, a new restaurant and you, and you get the feeling that everything just feels too cohesive, you know, all of the artwork and the furniture and everything is, it matches so well. And they have, you know, uh, maybe some vintage advertisement posters on the wall and old baseball bats or tennis rackets or fishing gear. And it's like, it just feels like the whole place was sort of bought out of a catalog as like Here's how to set up a new restaurant. And, you know, it just feels a little bit less organic and too perfect. That's kind of the sense I get with Christopher Ward. They sort of grew so quickly out of nothing to sort of this perfectly sort of packaged watch brand. And it's left me not so much disliking the watches, but just a little bit indifferent about them, I guess. It just doesn't feel like a terribly organic brand to me. But that's, you know, entirely subjective. And kind of just based on, on what I've seen from afar, but, uh, you know, we're, we're certainly proponents of, if you like it, you know, where would you like? And that's the case with Christopher Ward.
James Stacey So, and we're just two guys. We can't, we can't necessarily cover all the watches out there. If, if you think, if, uh, if you see a Christopher Ward that you think is, is the one that we should definitely know about, then I guess drop it in our email. I don't, uh, I don't follow it that closely, but, uh, certainly something we could take a look in the future. Yeah. Next up, we've got a question from Augustine about modding a luxury watch, which could be a scary question, I guess. Let's get to it.
Augustine Hey, James and Jason. It's Augustine from Massachusetts. My question for you both is, how do you feel about modifying luxury watches to better suit your needs? For example, my favorite watch in my collection is my Tudor Black Bay GMT. And the only thing I tend to not like about it is there's no drilled lugs. I'd love to be able to easily and quickly swap between the factory steel bracelet and my very old and trusty TGM branded grey NATO strap from Toxic NATOs from a time that's starting to feel like the old days of the podcast. So if you have a watch you know you won't sell but is considered maybe a luxury item to some people, would you have it professionally modified to get more practical use out of it? And have you ever personally had something modified like a watch or a camera? Thanks for all the great content, look forward to hearing from you guys.
Jason Heaton Well, thanks for that question, Augustine. Um, gosh, that is a, that is a scary question. Um, but, but it's kind of funny because, you know, I, I haven't actually, um, done any modifications to, to a luxury watch of my own. I I've changed, uh, bezels on a couple of Seikos, but no, never anything more than that. I will say that I'm more apt to, to kind of take a drill and, and, you know, sander and various other implements and modify an old Defender, Land Rover, that costs infinitely more than any watches that I own, but I'm afraid to do that to a watch. Maybe that requires a deeper dive at some point, but I could see if it was a reversible change and something that didn't maybe harm the watch or potentially significantly change it, I would attempt that. I've seen people put You know, like a red sweep hand on a, on a Speedmaster for instance, to make it look more like an Ultraman or something like that. Or, or like I said, a bezel swap or even like a set of hands, but drilling lugs. Um, I'm not sure how confident I'd be doing that. Um, I guess it depends on the kind of watch, but, uh, yeah, I'm, I'm a little skittish about that sort of thing. James, how about you?
James Stacey Yeah. I say that if you have no intention of selling the watch, like if that's not your concern, like if it's just your watch, make it yours. And if you can trust the guy who's going to run that drill. Awesome. Get it drilled. Go for it. If you're not going to sell it, absolutely. Like a Black Bay GMT is an amazing watch, but it's not like a museum piece. You're not destroying something with military provenance or whatever. At a certain point, yeah, people make all sorts of modifications to things that are way more expensive. And I think in some ways, one of the reasons that this feels so sketchy is that there's no solidified market for who you would take the watch to. Like let's say you buy a BMW and you want it to be faster, then there's a bunch of people you could take it to, right? Like tons. Same with the Defender. You want your Defender customized? Just pick the direction you want it customized. It could be bowler, it could be so-and-so, like there's tons out there, right? And the same with all sorts of cars. Literally almost any car you can imagine has either an in-house or a sort of third party or maybe hundreds of third party. Like if you're a Porsche, there's hundreds of spots that will do something to your car. Some of it's destructive, some of it's kind of additive. But if you trust the person running the drill, go nuts. I think that sounds like a great modification. And again, your only real concern would be that the watch, that somebody buying the watch might not want one that's been modified and it would affect the value. And if you've no interest in selling the watch, then yeah, you have no concerns. It makes sense to me.
Jason Heaton Yeah. And somebody might like that. I mean, somebody might like to buy a drilled lug. There's that too. Yeah. Tutor at some point. Yeah. Yeah. Good question. I'd love to see that if you do that.
James Stacey Very fun. Yeah. I was just going to say the same thing. Augustine, if you get that done, please send us a photo. We'd love to include it in the show notes. I'm sure people would love to see it. And also, to be fair, it's something tutors should consider because their bracelets are hard to swap. They use a very fine spring bar. Their tolerances are excellent. You really need a kind of expensive spring bar plier to do it. And even then, you're going to do some scratches unless you're a real steady, even a steadier hand than mine. So no, I get this entirely, but if you do get it done, fill us in and we'll share it with the team here. Next up, we've got a great one from Demir about kind of the quality and veracity of resurrected old brands.
Demir G'day guys, Demir from Melbourne Down Under. I hope all is well. My question, what do you really think about some of those resurrected or reborn names? or brands. It's just a marketing trick used by marketing guru because they know we're all suckers for heritage, military history brands, etc. And by the same token, how independent or authentic are the brands within big watch conglomerates such as Swatch Group? I mean, is Mido really Mido, you know, or Hamilton Hamilton? I think you know what I'm trying to say. Again, just big marketing ploy to make money, target different price segments. Thank you. Keep up good work. All the best.
Jason Heaton Cheers. Well, thanks for that one, Damir. James, why don't you take a stab at this one? What do you think of kind of these rebranded or reborn old name brands?
James Stacey Yeah, I think I understand that part of the question. The part where he said, I think you know what I'm asking. I'm not sure that I actually do. But I have no problem with any of these, like whether it's a brand that was around, didn't survive the quartz crisis, somebody bought the IP and started to recreate it. Because what brands are, are essentially context, right? Purchasing context. So you kind of know the vibe and what the brand is about and where they'll excel and what things they might ignore, right? Like what things matter. All of those, like branding is another way to say like a personality that's also kind of wrapped into a product. And I think that one, all watch anything, all watch branding is marketing. So it doesn't matter how big the company is. The idea here is to be able to easily explain something to a buyer who then will turn around and buy your product. And the better you are at branding it, the more easily that conversation takes place. If that makes sense. I think there's more, more legitimacy to a brand that has always been around and maybe is still in, in control of the same people, but we're talking about watchmaking there. you know, Louis Bergay passed away a long time ago, right? Yeah. At a certain point, you are kind of looking at a mirror's reflection of itself with these things where they try and stick to core values and, and these sort of principles and things like that. But the only way to get a true brand really would be to buy like a Roger Smith, where you're buying a watch. That's the result of kind of one guy's passion and design and ability in a very small team that puts it all together. And then he touches it. says it's good enough for him. And then that comes to you with a little letter from Roger. Other than that, you're buying into the sort of grand scale of branding. And I don't think there's anything wrong with that, but there's no saying that some brands aren't about being brands. Like one, if we're talking about brands, then the goal is to market and make money and make and try and create conversations that explain what makes your product or offering different from all the other competitors. And I think that's where one brand is going to be different than another they'll operate with you know, within the swatch context, they're going to operate in different locales, right? Like Mito's not available everywhere or Certina maybe isn't available everywhere that Mito is. So the idea is that you're speaking to non, um, cannibalizing the marketplace. Uh, but it is sort of a complicated thing where the most easy answer is all brands are attempting to be brands and make money. Just some of them have sort of a single through line, like, like a Rolex. where you can, you know, they've always had the Submariner. So if you're buying into the Submariner branding, you're buying into this whole legacy. Other brands like Aquastar, you know, they had an incredible history. And then at one point they kind of ended due to business reasons. And now they're back and you can kind of wear a modern iteration of that classic sort of legacy. And I think it's two different things, but again, all branding is marketing and all marketing is to sell something. So I think that's how I would see it.
Jason Heaton Yeah, I don't have much to add. I mean, I think, you know, Aquastar is a good, a good example. I think, you know, had, had Rick Moriarty not resurrected that name, we would not be able to experience what an Aquastar feels like on the wrist short of buying a vintage one that then you can't use as they originally were, um, back in the 1960s or seventies. And I think that's a good thing. I think, you know, so much of what, um, or so much of why we buy watches or enjoy watches is because for emotional reasons, these are, these are largely obsolete um, luxury products that, that we don't really need. And I think, you know, we, so emotion is a huge part of, of why we buy them. And I think, you know, brands recognize that, um, swatch group, you know, bringing back the DS line of, of Sertina for instance, uh, you know, okay, maybe it isn't the same Sertina and it isn't being issued to, you know, uh, Navy divers anymore, but it's, it's, uh, it allows us to, to capture. the feel and kind of the richness of that name and the watches they made. And I think that can't be anything but a good thing. I think, you know, if a brand disrespects the name or takes a brand name and kind of goes in a very different direction, that's certainly their prerogative and the market will bear out, you know, whether that's successful or not. But I think that's where I would like it less. But I think for the most part, it's a good thing. Thanks for the question, Damir. Let's move on to a question from Brandon, who has an interesting question about kind of neoclassic cars.
Brandon Jason and James, I hope all is well. Brandon from Charlotte, North Carolina here, longtime listener. I recently started a new rabbit hole that I've gone down, deciding that I was finally ready to drive a car that I wanted to drive, not one that necessarily makes practical sense to drive. I really wanted a convertible and started with the Z3, the Z4, and the 1 Series from BMW. Never quite fit exactly what I was looking for. And I was looking for what I'll call a neo-classics. Something from maybe 1995 to 2005 before the big tech boom. Something a little more simple to drive. And I landed on a really neat article on drivingline.com by Andy Carter. revisiting the Lexus SC430, which as he pointed out at the very beginning, was at one point in time called by Top Gear, the worst car in the history of the world, which is enough to intrigue me right there. But I ended up finding a local car that looked like it had never been driven. It's 17 years old, but average less than 4,000 miles a year. And it really just immediately, I knew it was the car I was going to get. And what was interesting to me is It was very much the same feeling and experience that I've had when you've seen that, you know, box and papers, 20 year old Rolex Air King in the case of a local jewelry store. And you just kind of know immediately that that's too good to pass up. So I wanted to ask you guys how you feel about these newer cars that are entering that 20 almost years old, these Neo classics. Is there anything out there that catches your guy's eye? If you had to buy a car from that era, what would you go with? Look forward to hearing your response.
Jason Heaton Have a great one. Well, good question, Brandon. Cars from the 80s and 90s, hey, I'm all for them. I'd like to consider myself a neoclassic because those are the cars I kind of grew up learning to drive and hanging pictures on my wall and at some point owning a couple of them. But I'll just chime in quickly. I like cars of that era. I think it brings back a heavy sense of nostalgia for me since, like I said, this is when I was kind of learning to drive. And I think, you know, cars nowadays, if you even look within the past decade, you get navigation screens and features that will look dated and maybe don't quite fit kind of a classic feel, but like an E36 BMW from, from, you know, the mid nineties or, or late eighties Saab 900, both of which I have owned, um, I would gladly own them again. And I'd love to, um, cause I do love that, that era of car, uh, James, how about you? What do you, what do you think of, uh, His, his Lexus idea and cars in general from that era.
James Stacey Yeah. You know, the, the Lexus, uh, you know, I'm, I'm never going to yuck somebody else's yum. The Lexus does. Full on zero for me. That said, if we're talking about, you know, eighties, nineties, and then even into the early two thousands, there's that's an incredible era for cars. I, I would contend that like car building kind of hit its Zenith with the Porsche Carrera GT. you know, in the in the mid late aughts there. And I think there's a lot of really like incredible, fun, great looking cars from that era. And I honestly think, you know, we're seeing this in Radwood, you know, which are which are the these kind of events that are for 80s and 90s cars. And then you even have Doug DeMuro. If you're a big YouTube car fan, then, you know, Doug's work. He launched a whole auction site that's kind of devoted to cars of the 80s, 90s and 2000s. uh, you know, to, to, to give, um, to give that, that kind of vein, that kind of post-classic, uh, option, uh, more, but I mean the stuff that jumps to mind, man, S 2000, the Honda, uh, an absolute winner, uh, earlier Miatas from the same sort of era, lots of options there. Z4, Z4M, the clown shoes. So the Z3 coupes I like a lot. Uh, yeah, I, I'm a fan of these ones, you know, you can even go into, if you're willing to dip into the 80s and deal with a higher sort of cost in terms of ownership, then look into Porsches that they were kind of making before they got to the Boxster. But that said, the Boxster started in 96, so you should be able to find them from 97. And at least while you might not be buying something nearly as reliable as a Lexus, Uh, the alternative would be that you have this big collector community that backs this. And most of the issues are going to be pretty well known. Um, given the age, I think that there's a ton from this range of cars, like Jason said, with the E36, I think a hugely underrated car, especially in North America, where our E36 M3 didn't have the faster motor. We had a kind of downtune motor here versus what was offered in Europe. Uh, so yeah, no, I think the options are kind of endless and, and, you know, car choice aside, I do hope that the, the Lexus, you know, really kind of suits what you want from a vehicle, from probably a nice, comfortable convertible that's not going to give you a lot of headaches. I think it should be able to do all of those sorts of things for sure.
Jason Heaton All right. Well, good question, Brandon, and good luck with that Lexus. Hope it brings you lots of smiles.
James Stacey For sure.
Jason Heaton All right, let's move on to a question from Andy who has a question about GMT watches.
Andy Feels like something we can probably answer. Hey guys, this is Andy from Detroit, Michigan. I have a question about GMT watches. While I find the mechanics interesting and really like the appearance of a different color secondary hour hand, I find the usual suspects, the Explorer 2 and GMT Master, not very user-friendly. Since I grew up in the U.S., I find the 24-hour timescale very foreign. Additionally, I feel that real estate occupied by the 24-hour scale could be better used to put a 60-minute diver-style timing bezel. On the flip side, the Zinn 757 UTC seems to have the best solution I've seen to track a second time zone. It's both simple and effective, and it uses the 12-hour timescale that is already there. So, am I the only one who thinks everyone should be copying Zen instead of Rolex when it comes to GMT-style watches? Thanks for taking my question and putting on a great podcast.
Jason Heaton Well, that's an interesting question, Andy. You know, I kind of like the smugness of knowing how to use a 24-hour scale, and it is kind of more accurate once you get to know it. It's easier to use at a glance. You know, if you're, if you're all about kind of a 12 hour scale, um, then you just have to have either a good memory for, for, uh, you know, whether it's AM or PM, or you need a watch like that Vacheron, uh, Everest piece that we spoke about at length a couple of episodes ago that has the AM PM indicator. Um, you know, so I don't know, James, what do you think about this?
James Stacey Yeah, I, um, I, I had a Zen one four, four STGMT, which is either the same or very similar movement. It might be a slightly different. spec, but it offers the same functionality, a chronograph and a GMT hand. And while I like the layout of just a second hand, giving you the option in these, in these scenarios, um, it's not going to be anywhere near as useful in the Zen layout or, or in the, in the layout, that's based on top of something like a, um, a 7750, the chronograph where you'll have essentially, you'd now have two 12 hour hands. And if you do a lot of traveling in your second time zone, you have to update it, it's really helpful to know if it's AM or PM when you want to call home. And especially if you're dealing with a time zone that might be six hours in a difference where it would be easy to get that wrong. Um, then I think there's absolutely a reason for having not only a 24 hour scale, but a 24 hour hand, uh, to read it against. If you can get a watch that has an AM PM indication, which, you know, like the, like the overseas dual time, or like you see in Patek dual times, it's a little bit more common to dual time watches and less so in the price point that we'd see a Zen. Otherwise, you know, there's a very concrete reason why you have a 24-hour scale, even if it's on, whether it's on the bezel or on the Riat, like, you know, on the bezel with a GMT Master and on the Riat with something like an S302 Bremont. That way you still get the dive bezel and the 24-hour, which gives you AM, PM. But that's the value in the 24-hour scale is being able to very quickly divine if you should be calling home or if you're going to be waking up everybody who's there, right? Yeah. And I think that's the value that the Zen is perfectly useful and helpful, but it's, it really depends on how often you're changing the reference of that time zone. If you're doing it enough where you could lose track of plus or minus, you know, whatever the time zone is versus where you are, this isn't going to be a helpful one for the purpose, the general purposes of a GMT, right? This is, Great for showing where you are, but once you're more than a few hours in either direction, or if you make multiple changes, that's going to be confusing. And that that's where the 24 hour scale is really helpful, but a great looking watch nonetheless, just like with the 144. So thanks very much for that question, Andy. All right. I think we've got time for one more. So let's get to, uh, let's get to one from George about, uh, asthma and scuba diving.
Unknown Hey, Jason and James, this is George coming to you from Miami, Florida. I had a question regarding diving. Currently I have a Seiko SKX-013 and I've taken it a bunch to the beach and have gone snorkeling with it, but I'm kind of wanting to take the next step. I tried to take a scuba class some time ago, but the instructor on the first day said that people with asthma would not be able to go diving or say scuba diving. Unfortunately, I do have asthma and I just wanted to get your two cents on it. Maybe a second opinion on what do you guys think about scuba diving and asthma? Should I take up skin diving instead? Would love to hear your suggestions on the topic. Anyways, yeah, trying to keep it under a minute here. So thanks for all that you guys do. Love the show. Take it easy. Take care.
James Stacey Hey, George, that's a really interesting question. Not one that I'd necessarily thought about is it's not, not something I suffer from also kudos. That was one minute, one second. So, um, Jason, do you have any, anything to add to this or, or should I just dip into like what Dan and Patty and everyone else says?
Jason Heaton Yeah, I was going to suggest, uh, you know, you, you, you check out, uh, you know, the Dan website, the divers alert network, and they've got a good team of physicians. There's a lot of articles online about this, but, uh, yeah, James, if you've looked into this, uh, chime in, please.
James Stacey I read around a little bit and, and the general consensus is that as a legacy scuba diving had been kind of off, off the options list for those with asthma, but obviously as, as the understanding of asthma has kind of grown in the various phases and severity at which it can, it can happen. Uh, it does seem like there's a comfort zone within the diving community that allows for people with asthma to dive, depending on, on how it affects you specifically. Uh, so I'll put this in the show notes. If you're interested, that's probably the fastest route. And if you need any followups, you can always send us an email, the great NATO at gmail.com. But at least according to Dan, it really depends on your physical health, your, your personal health scenario. But there should be scenarios in which you can, um, deal with it, uh, with a doctor who's, who knows about scuba diving, knows enough about scuba diving and can, can do some tests and, and basically give you some assurances. And then the rest of it comes down to making sure that those in the water with you know what's going on and those on the boat and having your inhaler on the boat and all these kinds of things. But we can put this in the show notes. Um, I, I, you know, not being a doctor and also not playing one on the internet. Uh, I'm not going to offer any concrete, like yes or no, but I do think that this isn't a, this isn't simply you being told you're absolutely not allowed to dive. Your context for diving might be different than people who don't have asthma. That's all. So I would start by, either working with a local shop and maybe they know of a doctor or, um, or speaking with your GP and seeing if there's a, if they're aware of a referral to, uh, uh, asthma specialists that could also, um, help ensure that, that you can pass certain sorts of qualifications and then continue on in that certification.
Jason Heaton Yeah. And I think, you know, we, we brought up Dan, the divers alert network and, you know, they offer, uh, diving insurance, which covers, you know, medevac, um, hyperbaric treatments, et cetera. But they also have a full time 24 hour staff of diving trained physicians who are on call, um, to take questions just like this. And I've used the Dan hotline quite a bit for various, uh, you know, health related questions about, is it safe to do this? Is it safe to do that? And they're, they're extremely helpful. So I think even if you're planning on getting into diving, I would be almost certain that you will never, you know, you'd be told, you won't be told not to dive with asthma. I think there are just precautions as James said. And I think if you're planning on, on taking up diving of any sort, it's worth joining Dan, even for the first year to get that insurance, but also to get access to those physicians. And once you do, then you can, you can call them and ask this very question and see what they have to say. So strongly encourage a Dan membership for any divers.
James Stacey That's a great, that's a great tip. I totally forgot that they had a hotline that you could call. Uh, that's probably even easier. Read the document that I'll put in the show notes. but, and then give them a ring and maybe, maybe they have a little book of people in your area that you could speak with, um, uh, to get the assurances that you and likely your family and anyone else would need. Certainly those, uh, you know, training, you are going to want lots of assurances as well. But, uh, I think that's a great question, George, and thank you so much for, uh, you know, looking into scuba diving. I hope that we, you know, the, the, the ranks of, uh, divers among TGN listeners, uh, continues to expand. It's a, it's a wonderful hobby and, uh, certainly I wouldn't see it as a, Uh, this or that sort of option also do some skin diving for sure. Get it, you know, work on some breath hold. Maybe, maybe that's, you know, again, with, with, with assurances from, uh, from a doctor of some sort that you're not doing anything unsafe for your, uh, your health condition, but, uh, a great pastime and an excellent sport to get into. And, uh, yeah, a solid question. Good luck with your diving and keep us posted. We'd love to hear how it goes.
Jason Heaton All right, we're going to put a bow on it there and save a handful of questions for the October Q&A. So we thank everybody for sending in those voice memos. It was a good crop of varying questions today from cars and watches to diving to boating. And, and that's it for this month.
James Stacey With that in mind, thank you so much for listening. You can subscribe to the show via thenotes.thegrenado.com or check the feed for more details and links. Of course, you can follow us on Instagram at Jason Heaton, at J.E. Stacey and at TheGreyNado. And if you have any questions for us, you see what they do when you send them in. They come on the show and we answer them and we've got a crop more for next month, but we always need more. So record them into the voice memo app on your phone and then email it to TheGreyNado at gmail.com. And finally, if you're enjoying the show, please subscribe and review and maybe recommend it to a friend. That's about all we could ask. Music throughout is Siesta by Jazzer via the free music archive.
Jason Heaton And we leave you with this quote from Eugene Ionesco who said, it is not the answer that enlightens but the question.