TGN Chats - Merlin Schwertner (Nomos Watches) And Jason Gallop (Roldorf & Co)

Published on Tue, 06 Sep 2016 09:01:40 -0400

Synopsis

The podcast features a conversation with Jason Gallop, a watchmaker and the owner of Roldorf & Co., a watch retailer in Vancouver, and Merlin Svertner, the VP of USA for Nomos Watches. They discuss the introduction of the Nomos brand to Vancouver through Roldorf & Co., Jason's background in watchmaking and the criteria he uses to select brands for his store, and Merlin's family connection to Nomos and the brand's design philosophy rooted in the Bauhaus tradition. They also touch on the value proposition of Nomos watches, the brand's approach to watchmaking, and their personal experiences with wearing and appreciating different Nomos models.

Transcript

Speaker
James Stacey Welcome to TGN Chats, I'm James Stacey. Allow me to set the scene. I have two guests on this episode which was recorded in the lobby of a business tower in downtown Vancouver. I've been in Vancouver for a few years and while people in this city love watches, their only opportunity to see really cool and less common brands is when they're on vacation or visiting other large cities. The main reason for this chat is to sit down with two guys who are responsible for bringing a great watch brand right into downtown Vancouver. I have Jason Gallop, a watchmaker and the owner of Roldorf & Co., the retailer in question, and we're thrilled to have Merlin Svertner, VP of USA for Nomos Watches. So let's get to it. Guys, thanks so much for being on the show. Hey, James. Hey, thank you very much. So I think it's probably an interesting place to start with Jason. And Jason, you've been running Roldorf for how long now?
Jason Gallop It's just about a year and a half. The business itself is about 23 years old and used to belong to my father and I decided to take it over.
James Stacey Very cool. And Merlin, how long have you been working with Nomos?
Merlin Svertner It depends how you look at it. I kind of went into it since I'm a little kid. And at the same time, I had always the freedom of choice. And so it was only until I was about 20 that I participated in the first fair in Baselworld, which was a great chance for me to participate in this world without right stepping into it. And it was also while I was in university. So I always Jumped into those fairs and and there I got an option to work at a retailer in Switzerland. So I got to see the other end Kind of because we consider like we are manufactured but then I could see and meet like final customers and and see how they take and Work with a lot of different brands which before I didn't have that much of a contact with and that's what kind of hooked me a little into this industry and then I changed my studies and everything so I just started with Nomads about six years ago.
James Stacey For those of our listeners who may not recognize your last name, you have a family connection with the brand.
Merlin Svertner Yeah. Yeah, I do. I usually don't tell unless I'm asked, because I would like people to have their own set of mind about how I am and how I work. I have a high profile to look up to. My father started Nomos in 1989. Right.
James Stacey And the brand launched kind of officially January 1990.
Merlin Svertner Yeah. So the thing is, my father kind of started with that project before actually the wall fell. And then when the wall fell and all this political turmoil in Germany started, he was actually one of the few who went the opposite way because everybody left the East to go to the West. And he actually drove to Glashütte very early after the wall fell, just a couple of days later. And in January 1990, NOMOS was founded.
James Stacey Right now, you have a number of retailers throughout the U.S., and this will be the first AD in Canada. So that's a big change. And were you already kind of in the mode of looking for placement in Vancouver or Toronto, or did the relationship kind of move forward specifically with Roldor?
Merlin Svertner It's always a mixture of both things. We specifically, since we opened the office in New York, we've been very busy like setting up all the infrastructure to support kind of the North American market. But we were not at the point where I was like actively looking for Canada, although I always like Canada as a country and I looked always I think those cities are have a maybe as a European you always think Canada is a little bit closer sometimes and I was very happy to have a lot of feedback at the Baselworld from Canadians but also like from the press and we also see it from from blogs and from like posts and like you see that following from Canada. It's a little bit like what you said before that there's a lot of watch enthusiasts in Canada but maybe there's not that much of maybe interest from the brands to move into this country because it is very big. It's huge, yeah. And it's very spread out. And it's very different from one city to another. It's a pain with customs, but I think it's definitely worth it. And when I met Jason at Baselworld, it was such a, you know, it's like when you say gut feeling, but also it can You can find many ways to work with someone. It can be an economical partnership. It can be because it's strategically important. But at the end of the day, especially for us, when we are a family business, it has to work on the human level. It has to be some connection because you're going to end up working a lot of time together. So it'd rather better be a good fit from that side.
James Stacey Yeah, for sure. No doubt. And as far as it being kind of an interesting fit for Rohldorf with Nomos, Jason, you have a considerable background in watchmaking, and then that's reflected, I think, in a lot of the brands that you've selected, not just with Nomos, but with other brands that take a lot of pride, not only in design, but in their actual, you know, kind of watchmaking prowess.
Jason Gallop Yeah, absolutely. I mean, that definitely is shown with me taking on a partnership with Spiek Marin. I have a relationship with Peter anyway from school, which really helped. Right, and you were trained at Woestep, correct? Yeah, that was the second part of the training. The first part was through the British Horological Institute in Hackney College in London. So there were only two places in the UK actually where you could do the training at that time, starting in 1985. Yeah, that's where I met Peter and Stephen, and yeah, we went through the process together. We cut our teeth there.
James Stacey And since then to now, 85 to 2016, you've been working in watchmaking the whole time?
Jason Gallop No, not the whole time. Up until, I think it was 97 or so. And I had an opportunity to get out of watchmaking into an entirely different field in high-tech. It was a local company that was working with optics and lasers, and they wanted somebody that had a sort of a micro-mechanical engineering background, and I was looking for something a bit different.
James Stacey Sure. Yeah. And then what brought you back into the watchmaking world? Was it for retail or for service?
Jason Gallop No. Even though I left it for a job, I was always there. It's one of those things that you can't just walk away from. It stays with you. So all the way through, even when I was working for that company, I was still dabbling. Even down to the point of taking photographs for a brand, a local brand here in Vancouver. I did a number of catalogues for them. And that was just for me to keep my hand in.
James Stacey Always the enthusiast. Always the enthusiast. I know that feeling. And so Jason, when you're picking a brand for the store, you have some pretty interesting brands like Autodromo, Peters Peak Marin, kind of esoteric, enthusiast. You kind of have to know what you know to really get those brands. How do you pick a brand? How do you pick Nomos over some other brand?
Jason Gallop It's a gut feeling. I mean, I'm looking at brands from a number of different perspectives. Number one, a brand has to be marketable. It has to be something that I believe in myself that I can sell because I wouldn't consider myself a salesperson. I'm really a promoter. So I look at that and I look at something I can really get behind. The other thing is that I look at it from the eyes of a watchmaker. I look for the quality, I look for the passion that has gone into making a particular watch which runs through to the brand. So there's that as well. And I also look at the organization, the business side of me that I'm very interested in.
James Stacey Why watches? It had to have been more than the family connection because, like you said, you had all sorts of options after school. It's still difficult.
Merlin Svertner For me, it was definitely that experience because I actually, at first, I studied law and I went into law and I was looking more into being, I think you call it, a criminal lawyer, so into that aspect. But then I had this opportunity to work at the fair, so it was kind of the first contact that I had. from a totally different perspective because before I was always growing up in that company kind of and many of the of the colleagues now that know me since I'm a little kid and so I always grew up knowing this world without kind of maybe realizing how much it is for the outside world just for the inside of me and then I went to the fair and I saw all these big brands and and all these people that come from all over the world just for that purpose usually you need like a It's more like a political thing that you get that many different things together or art and then that really caught me and then I had the chance to work that summer in Switzerland actually in Interlaken, I don't know if you know it. From road signs, I know it from road signs. Yeah, you actually have to pass by there if you want to go to the highest peak and you can go there and then there's a retailer there and I worked there for the summer and what really caught me there was he had like I don't know 25 languages represented in a store because all these people from all over the world they would come there and maybe they would never be on the same page from their beliefs or political background learn more about the mechanics and everything and I think it's that combination that really got me into but up today I'm still walking on it to like find a straight on definition for that.
James Stacey Yeah well me too let me know if you find if you find a way of rationalizing the love of these little machines but it's interesting with your background so you would have grown up roughly around the aesthetic of Nomos and this is an aesthetic that stands out in a in a product segment you know watches which are essentially In many ways, almost all aesthetic, they're sold, for the most part, on magazine photographs or, you know, the way the light catches them in a TV ad. And, of course, it is about the manufacturing processes and the movements and such, but I think a lot of it comes down to what the watch says to the final buyer aesthetically. For those who may only know Enormous in look but not in the philosophy behind its design, Could you fill people in a little bit on where that comes from?
Merlin Svertner Yeah, definitely. So you have to see that the company was founded in 1990, and the first models were in 92. And in that process, there came four models together, which are still the keystones of our collection. And back then, the philosophy behind Nomos is actually that If you look into the word Nomos, it actually comes from the Greek and it means balance, law, order, right distribution. And my father found it going through the records of the Glashütte companies. There was a Nomos actually, long time before they were doing pocket watches. It has nothing to do with the Nomos today, but my father liked the name, picked it up and then looked more into the meaning of that. And it fit really what he wanted for the brand because In the 90s you could choose to have a very highly complicated mechanical watch, but it would be thick and probably expensive as well. Or you could go for a nice looking, maybe elegant, fashionable quartz watch. and more on the cheaper side.
James Stacey Yeah, for sure.
Merlin Svertner But there was no balance in between that and the idea he wanted was to combine a good design which is kind of timeless that you can follow, you can buy it today and it would still be in almost 15 years from now. But at the same time having the mechanics behind it to then not say, OK, in 10 years the watch doesn't work anymore or something like that. So he wanted that and then he wanted it at a balanced price between that. So those three things are still what drives NOMOS today. And if you look at the designs, because we sometimes stay in our own way because we made those iconic watches. So whenever we do something new, it takes us a long time to get a new watch that kind of makes justice to those previous models. Which is good, because it elevates our standard. And the Lambda took us about two or three years.
James Stacey Which was a big departure from the kind of normal core family.
Merlin Svertner Yeah, in a way, yes. Definitely because of the mechanics. Because the Lambda is our more kind of top of the mountain watch. And for us, it was not so difficult from the design aspect or from the movement. Because we had the movement, we had the know-how. We worked on the design. It's a strong point from us. We could do that. The challenge for us with that watch was the price where we had positioned it because we didn't want to be perceived by our fans and by our followers that Nomos now tries to be expensive as everybody else. That's why we launched it at the same time as we launched our swing system, which is our in-house escapement. And we presented that one. I actually brought you the pieces so you can see it. that
James Stacey an even greater expression of just general efficiency, but not just in the actual way that the movement runs, but also in the entire production methodology that brought that movement to life.
Merlin Svertner Yeah, it's cool because now, like in two sentences, we resumed all this process, all this build-up that we've done, because we build on the new escapement, we build on these new gold watches that have that beautiful movement. And then the pneumatic, as you say, is this new generation of an automatic movement. That's why the new automatic pneumatic, which is an extremely thin movement. And also there we worked for three years just to reduce our tolerances in production and be able to combine that with an, as you say, effective timepiece keeper. Because usually these thin movements don't keep time as much.
James Stacey And Jason, from the watchmaking standpoint, you've had a chance to go over some of the movements?
Jason Gallop You know, as soon as, as soon as you open up a catalog even, and you just, you see the photographs of how well finished the movements are, you can, you can, you can see the quality there. And the design even that, that, that's gone into how that three quarter plate looks, then with their own escapement, so that they're completely independent of, of anybody else is, is, is a revelation really. But going back to the aesthetic, I mean, the movement is incredible and everything else, but which one would you choose? And even for myself, you know, it's hard to make a choice. And there's not too many brands that you can actually open up a catalog like that and be so stumped as to which one you prefer more from the aesthetic side alone. And that's an achievement. It really is.
James Stacey Yeah, no, I would entirely agree with that. The Nomos range is one that kind of confounds me with choice anxiety. It's pretty tempting to go with like the classic Tangente or Tangamat, and then you have, I really love the Ahoy, but then how would you pick between the first one and the Atlantic with the blue dial? And it's a family of, like you said, really beautifully designed watches. with very qualified watchmaking at the heart of their movement, development, and the philosophies behind the way that kind of comes together. And with watches, what does that necessarily mean? Generally, that means it's quite expensive. And certainly, the Nomos isn't an entry-level watch by any stretch. We're not talking about Timex here. We are talking about beautifully built German watches. But if you actually spec them out against their competition, they punch way above their weight class. Absolutely.
Jason Gallop And I mean, in Canada, I guess you would say that the price range is what between two and a half thousand to six or seven.
James Stacey Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So the entire core product line falls well under the price of a new Submariner.
Jason Gallop Yeah.
James Stacey And yet you have an aesthetic that you're not going to see on every wrist in town. And that's what you have with a Submariner in Vancouver is they're everywhere. I'm sure 50% of them are fake.
Merlin Svertner Not necessarily.
James Stacey But that's why it's exciting to have a brand like Nommel's coming to Vancouver, because not only does it introduce a different aesthetic, but it's such a well-informed aesthetic from the Bauhaus tradition and from even previously, previous to that, the German Werkbund tradition or Werkbund school, is that more correct?
Merlin Svertner Yeah, because it's hard to pronounce, it's Deutsche Werkbund and it's actually the pre-initiator of the Bauhaus movement because it started in Dresden and then they moved and then they had to move out of the country. But it's that idea kind of that form follows function and it's also why for example this last movement that we made the DUW 3001, the extra flat one, we implemented it in our watches that are 35 millimeters which And today it's actually everybody thinks like it's too small. But we wanted to show that we can do a small movement. We don't need to build a watch around the movement to give it personality. You can work from there. Later we can still make it bigger if we do complications or not or if the market demands it. But first we wanted to show that we can do a small one. Because many other companies struggle with these things because they usually acquire movement or a piece so they cannot influence as much of the movement and then they build around it.
James Stacey So you can end up with a tiny movement in a giant case or you can end up with just kind of a mismatch and then you have odd date placements because it wasn't designed correctly. Correct. And yeah, there's that holistic element to the way that Normals and certainly the Bauhaus tradition approaches design and organization.
Merlin Svertner Yeah, form follows function. So like everything around it goes to what you don't need.
James Stacey No doubt. What would you like someone listening who, let's say they live in Vancouver, they live in a city where they can go see Nomos, what would you like them to know before they say pick one up off the tray at their retailer? What's kind of the key?
Merlin Svertner That's the tough thing with Nomos because you If you see our ads, it's just a watch. It's just a watch and maybe a sentence that describes a little bit what you see or maybe what could trigger you. But it doesn't put you in a category. Sometimes I feel, when you look at often other companies, that they determine already the kind of customer that goes for these watches. Of course, it's the way. You also see that with cars. But with normal, you have to go deeper inside of you and say, OK, what what do I want or how do I see myself? Because we all we always have different images of ourselves until you figure that out. Then you can see what what is what you want to have on your wrist, because at the end of the day, it's a kind of an expression of yourself if you have one kind or the other. Especially in our world of watch knowers or geeks or however you want to describe it. I often find myself to look at the wrists of someone and say no. Or already in your mind you attach images to that perception. And with Nomos that doesn't happen that much. What will happen if you see someone wearing a Nomos you will say oh. A little more neutral. Yeah, kind of neutral like you say oh. Or you would say oh cool he picked that one. It does show a little bit of taste, maybe if you can say it this way, or know what you're wearing.
James Stacey And then I'm interested, you know, with your, obviously your 9 to 5, probably more like 9 to 9, is kind of living and breathing normal, so are there other brands that are kind of on your radar as far as appreciation goes?
Merlin Svertner That's a tough question. But of course I always look out for different brands. Yeah, for certain.
James Stacey Any innovation that you've seen recently that you thought was pretty cool?
Merlin Svertner Honestly, not that much, because I'm so used to, even my watches, they're all without a date. I look for complications that I can use myself. For sure. I mean, I'm fascinated by how it works, like a tourbillon, and getting to know it, but I would not wear one.
Jason Gallop That's actually another thing that I really like about this. It's simple all the way through, from where you see it, on your wrist, the aesthetic of it. The movement is beautifully simple. and yet so beautifully finished. And then when it actually comes down to something that most people don't actually think about when buying a mechanical watch is the service side of it. It's not an overly complicated watch. So a person can buy a Nomos and know that you know, their periodic service is not going to be astronomical, right? So not only is the watch reasonably priced, but it's also going to be reasonable when thinking about, okay, well, within three to five years or five to seven years, you know, what will I actually be looking at for a service cost on this? There's very few people, salespeople, that will actually talk about service when you're actually going to buy a watch. And I think that's a key thing because when you're spending a fair sum on a watch, you know, you don't want that to all of a sudden pop up at some point and scare you.
James Stacey Where you can have a luxury watch that isn't necessarily a fortune to keep wearing and keep in good enough shape to pass on to another generation and something like that.
Merlin Svertner No, it has to be in balance. We always try to have that balance. Is it for the strap? What material do we use? Is it durable enough? But is it quality-wise good? Same with the service. It has to be all in balance. If you buy a watch for $2,000, the service cannot be $1,000.
James Stacey Right. With The Great NATO, we focus not only on watches, but also on travel and adventure and things like that. When you're traveling or adventuring, do you pick a different Nomos or just Can I stick with one? Have you switched to the Ahoy for when you're skiing or swimming? How does that work? Have you put any of them through their paces?
Merlin Svertner Yeah, yeah. I mean, I keep on going back to my first automatic watch, which I always wear with me. That's a nice club with the dark dial. Yeah, it's eight years old now. And I always have that one and it has a special meaning for me. So that one I always have. But now I travel with the Ahoy because Usually I'm trying to work a lot during the weekend and try to compensate on the weekend.
James Stacey Weekend warrior.
Merlin Svertner Yeah. I mean, this weekend you would have seen the Ahoy wood chopping, sailing and wakeboarding. And for the wakeboarding, now I can wear it. Now I don't face plant anymore. But before I took it off, now I can wear it. Sure. Sure. Okay.
James Stacey And you found it to be pretty reliable that way as far as, yeah.
Merlin Svertner Yeah, I mean, I was always raised like taking very good care. Sure, yeah.
James Stacey I think most people would feel that way. I think people feel that way about their like dive watches.
Merlin Svertner Yeah, and mostly not because you probably don't trust the watch, because you don't trust yourself. Like you're gonna mess up or you're gonna hit something or whatever. Forget to screw the crown. That happens, but even then I know the worst thing that can happen for me, even with Ahoy, it's that water will go into, which is the worst thing that can happen. But even then, since we do all the parts and everything, I know that it's still going to be my watch. So I'm kind of more relaxed on that side. Yeah. Let it earn a few scratches. And you have to, I mean, then it gets your personality. That's what makes it your watch. And maybe you're going to see, oh, and you're like, oh, where did I get this dent from? But you remember it. Although one time, I remember a couple of weeks ago, we got an Ahoy in for service and I really, like, the glass was destroyed. Yeah. And we really, we wrote an email to the owner, well, we hope you are okay at least. But there's always a story behind the watch.
James Stacey Yeah, for sure. So with Vancouver in specific, we have this kind of enthusiast base, you know, there's a red bar in town. There's some really great guys that really love watches. I think that's why it's interesting that Enormous is coming or when you started carrying Autodromo. Yeah. I thought that was pretty cool. It's, it's, it's really fun to be able to see these watches in person rather than just on the website. And I mean, you know, I'm spoiled and, and, uh, my cohost Jason, we're spoiled. We get to go to, Bosnia, we get to go to SIHH, we can pretty much theoretically send an email and see almost anything we wanted in person. But it's a real treat to have another, I think, legitimate enthusiast brand, a brand that's made by enthusiasts for people who really appreciate and love design and watchmaking.
Merlin Svertner No, and also for me, it's very interesting to be here now and to get that direct feedback from customers because I've been traveling around the States mostly, but also like Toronto or looking maybe Winnipeg and getting to know Canada more as well, to see what questions or what is the interest from this side. Because every town, every different state or district in Newcastle has its own vibe and own interests and I'm curious to see what that comes out tomorrow.
James Stacey Yeah, I'm excited for the first time that I see a Nomos on the street. Just walk past me. You know, I'm constantly looking at what people are wearing. And, you know, if I see another Daniel Wellington or Michael Kors, I think I might just give up. So, yeah, I'm pumped to have another cool brand in Vancouver. And, you know, Merlin, thank you so much for coming on the show and spending a few minutes chatting with us. I hope maybe we have you back on again sometime in the future. And Jason, Likewise, thanks so much. And Jason, I am going to corner you at the end of the episode here. I'm going to have you back on sometime to answer general watchmaking service, grey market, buying watches, all those sorts of questions.
Jason Gallop Absolutely.
James Stacey Yeah. So anyone who's listening, if you have a question about getting your watch serviced, how often should I service it? Can I trust my watchmaker, et cetera, et cetera? Give me an email, thegraynadoatgmail.com and I'm going to collect all of those and then I'm going to put some whiskey into Jason here and we'll get him back on the microphone. You know, Jason's a fantastic watchmaker and a retailer with pretty great taste. So I think we can, we can get some good answers from him, but thanks very much for listening and we'll catch up on the next TGN chat.