The Grey NATO - 157 - Military Watches, Practical Fitness, And How To Be Bond With Sean Lerwill
Published on Thu, 19 Aug 2021 06:00:45 -0400
Synopsis
This episode features an interview with Sean Lerwill, a former Royal Marines commando and fitness expert. Sean discusses his military background, his approach to fitness and nutrition emphasizing bodyweight exercises and a plant-based diet, and his interest in James Bond which led him to write a fitness ebook called "Be More Bond." He also talks about his watch collection, which includes military and Bond-inspired limited edition pieces. Overall, the discussion covers practical fitness advice, the importance of understanding your body's needs, and Sean's unique perspective blending fitness with his interests in coffee, James Bond, and watches.
Links
Transcript
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| Jason Heaton | Hello and welcome to another episode of The Grey Nado, a loose discussion of travel, diving, driving, gear, and most certainly watches. This is episode 157 and we thank you for listening. Hey James, how's it going? |
| James Stacey | Oh, you know, not too bad. Another week here in Toronto has gone by. They're starting to feel very similar most weeks. Had a nice little time up at the cottage, but other than that, just The tail end of the vacation went well, you know, since the last episode went out, just kind of kicked back and hung out with a little bit of the fam and jumped off a few docks, that sort of thing. How about you? Perfect. |
| Jason Heaton | Perfect. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, the, I think I mentioned to you earlier, we, we, Ghoshani and I have been going for these morning bike rides and it's, uh, man, it's, it's starting to feel like that tail end of summer. It's a little darker in the morning and a little cooler, which I, which I like, but, uh, yeah, we're, we're kind of moving into that shoulder season here pretty quick. And, uh, Yeah, we've got a, we've got a trip coming up next week. If all goes well with our COVID screening here at the end of this week, we'll be headed off to Bonaire for a week of diving. So it'll be the first time outside the country and gosh, it's probably been almost two years. |
| James Stacey | How long since you dove last? |
| Jason Heaton | Well, we did some kind of regional stuff last summer. We did, we were up in Lake Superior a couple of times, but nothing, nothing just kind of swim trunks and, and a single tank and warm water. So it'll be, uh, it'll be fun. It'll be good to kind of reacquaint, but, uh, that's great. |
| James Stacey | I hope that you don't get any, any sort of headaches. I have some friends that, that are, as we're recording this, I have traveled to Italy, um, after delaying that trip for, yeah, like you said, the better, better part of two years. And they had, they certainly had to jump through some hoops. And the biggest thing just seems to be that the, whether or not your flight will actually happen. seems to be a real dice roll these days. So I hope that's not the scenario with you being able to get down to Bonaire. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. Yeah. We'll see. I mean, I think the travel headache this Saturday will be a big one, but you know, hopefully it'll be worth it for five, six days on the ground there. |
| James Stacey | Yeah. So episode 158 live from the tropical paradise of Bonaire. |
| Jason Heaton | Yes. Fingers crossed. I mean, unless we never make it there, but yeah, we'll We'll do it. I'm going to pack the microphone along, so it should be fun. |
| James Stacey | And what, uh, what watches are you taking? |
| Jason Heaton | Gosh, you know, that that's kind of consumed a bit more of my mental space than I had kind of hoped it would. But, um, at this point I I'm thinking, you know, Ghoshani and I were talking, she wants to take a few watches too. I mean, I haven't dived with the Synchron Military yet, so we'll, we'll definitely pack that along. Um, probably the deep star. I think I'm going to take the, my Hodinkee Blancpain. |
| James Stacey | Oh, nice. |
| Jason Heaton | And, uh, and I've been wearing my, uh, my Bremont Supermarine quite a bit and I actually put it on the bracelet. Um, I got this bracelet. It is, you know, I weighed the watch. I posted it. It's not a story of it. So in old money, it's eight ounces. I mean, this is a half pound of watch. Uh, I wear it, you know, I, usually I wear my bracelet watch is slightly loose, but you can't do it with this cause it just, clunks down against your, your metacarpals there on your, on your hand and just kind of bruises you a bit. So I, I, I tightened it up a bit. There's kind of two micro adjusts. This is their older clasp. And, uh, so it doesn't have any kind of fancy micro adjust like the newer one does. So this just has two little spots you can tweak and I put it on the tighter of the two and it seems to. seems to hold firm on my wrist. And I kind of like it on the bracelet, just kind of, it looks good for one thing and it just, it feels good. |
| James Stacey | Oh, they definitely look good. I mean, those are, those are also really, really pretty watches to begin with. Like that overall format, especially the, you know, the first gen S500s, the S2000s and such. And those dive watches are great. I still can't get the 302 out of my head. Oh, I know. You know how it goes. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. Yeah. Other than that, I, I went, uh, I went sailing on Saturday. It was something I had wanted to do all summer. I haven't done it in a few years and, and this guy who came to my book launch event here back in July. Uh, and then Mark, he's, I think he's a TGN listener. Um, bit of a local watch guy. He's, he's an interesting fellow. He, he races a sailboats a couple of times a week. In fact, he told me they won their weekly series here on, on white bear Lake, which is really cool. And he also does some ski racing and instructing and he's a runner and just an all around kind of fun guy. And anyway, he, uh, he had extended an invitation to, to go sailing with him. And so we finally made it happen this past Saturday. And he's got, uh, a boat, gosh, must be about a 30 foot long boat called an E-Scow, which is just a super fast, uh, race boat, um, that he takes out and keeps on White Bear Lake, which is kind of a nearby big lake here. And, and boy, was that fun. There wasn't much wind, but it just felt so good to get out on the water and just kind of hear the wind in the, in the sails and the waves lapping on the hull. So it was, it was a lot of fun. Yeah. |
| James Stacey | Yeah, I had had high hopes of that being part of my summer, possibly, you know, finding a laser. Yeah. That that, you know, maybe needed some slight repairs. There's maybe ready to go. I'm not sure. One of my cousins married a fellow that's quite a talented sailor, and he said he would teach me. He's got a couple of sailboats around, but the summer just kind of ran away so far this year. Yeah, right. It might be might be a late August, September thing or it might have to push into next year. But I would love how to pilot a small a small, uh, you know, sail a small boat for sure. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. Yeah. And you could tow it with the Jeep and keep it at the cottage. And is there sailing on that Lake? |
| James Stacey | Oh, for sure. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. |
| James Stacey | Cool. Yeah. Lots of people out there in the, you know, they do everything from, from razors to, or they do everything from lasers to, um, you know, sailboarding and, and, uh, and the rest of it. But yeah, there's a, it's not as popular, you know, it's more of a bass boat Lake, you know, big flake and a big flake and a big rooster tail. But, uh, Yeah, there's a contingent of people who like their small, small, quiet boats, be it kayaks or sailboats and such. Nice. Yeah. As far as what's new for me, I've got a little bit of watch stuff. I published a story on Hodinkee that's been quite popular, and I'm pretty happy about that to get kind of a popular story in this month, which is kind of my one year look back at the SPB 143. I feel like this is a watch I talk a lot about, and this is kind of me closing the door on more content about this watch for a while. I love it. But now I think I'm on record for kind of touching every point that people ask me about. So I made this looking back post, you know, it was mostly just photos from Instagram that I that I've used. So people who follow will already recognize most of it. But it was kind of a look back at why I like the watch. And if I still like it, and kind of a follow up to the week on the wrist that we did about a year ago. And then I kind of included a bunch of the most common questions, the sort of preemptive AMA. Yeah. And the format seemed to work. People seem to dig it. So if you could swing by the post, give it a look. I'd appreciate the hits on this one for my monthly numbers. So yeah, that's on Hodinkee now. Other than that, you know, I realized while I was making the notes that I bought a watch in July and it still hasn't come. And I just, I kind of forgot about it. It's a watch for a story, and this is something that I do with some frequencies. If the watch is under a certain amount of money, I need the story more than I need the $80 or $150 or whatever. Yeah. And so I bought a watch, a Vostok Amphibia, one of these Russian dive watches. Yeah. And I really... The funny thing is I took my time in the hopes that this wouldn't happen, I dug around on the various options of where to buy it. And it looked like eBay was still a pretty solid source. And I bought lots of stuff on eBay. I have no problem with the platform at all. I like it quite a bit. But I went through the whole process of finding somebody with the good reviews and the good percentage and the seller awards and the rest of it. And I bought this watch. And the tracking number is all but dead since it left Russia. So my guess is it's one of these things that's just going to show up with a lot of stickers and foreign writing around it, and it will have made a lap or two of a few different airports by the time it gets here. But at some point that should arrive. I only realized, yeah, just as I was making these notes, like, oh, there was something I was waiting for. And I went back and, like, had to go into my Google and search eBay and found the thing and ran the tracking number again. And it seems to be kind of stalled out. So hopefully we do see that watch at some point. It's one of these ones where I had friends who had these watches or really kind of liked them, and I never talked myself into buying one when I could have a Seiko, basically. But now I just want to write a story and really trying to keep some semblance of accessible content on Hodinkee. And it's not that everything they do is about expensive watches. It's just my bread and butter. My, my, my enthusiasm still really is strong under $2,000. Yeah. Uh, and, and I'd like to keep that going. So I don't, I don't want to have this big blank, uh, in, in the Vostok Amphibia world. So hopefully that comes in soon and, and, and there'll be a story about it. Other than that, I've got a handful of things that are kind of preemptive of Geneva watch days. Uh, so those are all embargoed. Can't talk about those. My apologies. Yeah. You know, it's, it's, uh, it's, it is that kind of weird, bit of the year where most of Switzerland is on vacation in many ways. |
| Unknown | Yeah. |
| James Stacey | And if they're not on vacation, then their coworkers are. So it's a bit of a slower process to get things done now and especially to make stories that require any sort of support. Right. So hopefully that just means a somewhat slower pace through the rest of the month, get to enjoy some time in the cottage and and that kind of thing. And then, you know, September, September back to school and, and, you know, people, people push back to work because it's the start of the, essentially the holiday buying season. Right. So, right. Right. I would expect, I would expect certainly through Geneva watch days, which is at the end of the month and then into September to see a lot more, see the pace of announcements start to pick up, especially from bigger name brands, which should be, should be an exciting time. So I'm hoping we see some, some fun stuff, some good dive watches and some exciting kind of weird stuff. kind of see what the next year for the watch industry looks like, because this is an important time, especially when we're not doing the normal March-April shows. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. And this lull would have been a perfect time to get a Vostok in too. |
| James Stacey | Yes. I'm sure. Yeah. Right. Yeah. If only, if only those, I'm sure there's like six or seven different, uh, you know, postal carriers that have to work together to make that happen. So the world, the world is a marvelous and complex place. The, uh, the shipping scenario is, uh, is really impressive these days. When stuff slows down, you have to keep that in perspective that we don't wait you know, weeks for a letter anymore, you know, uh, or, or, you know, you can buy something from Amazon. It shows up yesterday. Yeah. Uh, but yeah, it's all, it's, it's, it's an interesting time for sure. |
| Jason Heaton | Speaking of web buys, um, I have a bit of a public service announcement here, um, regarding the Seiko sort of yellow Seiko marathon clock that we've both been discussing on the past couple of episodes. And we both bought, um, this is that digital, uh, kind of desk clock or, or, bedside table clock that looks like a marathon timer from Seiko. Such a cool thing. And, and you had mentioned, I think on our last show that, that a friend of the show, Paul Hubbard, um, had recommended this, uh, this adapter that, that you could plug it into a USB charger to, to power the backlight all the time, as well as not needing the batteries. And, um, I sourced one of those and plugged it into my laptop to just to kind of try it out and it looked great. And then I took it upstairs. Um, put it on the bedside table and plugged it into a USB, uh, DC adapter, wall charger and, um, or AC adapter, I guess. And I plugged it into the wall and it zapped it. So it's, it's toast. It's dead. I must've fried the innards of it. It doesn't work on battery or, or with the charger in any, in any fashion. So, um, just, I guess you'd have to be careful which adapter you use. I'm not sure. Yeah. What the correct one is. I'm certainly not an electrician or can speak intelligently about it, but, uh, word to the wise, I guess. |
| James Stacey | If you're going to plug it in, just, just check what the voltage rating on the plug is voltage and wattage and the rest and make sure that it, yeah, it's, it's, uh, it's not too much. It's not something that I even considered. Yeah. Uh, and my apologies, uh, for, for, uh, suggesting that this kit, this cable would be a one, you know, the funny thing is, is we're, we're used to a world in which you would buy the wall wart with the cable and And that wall wart is doing all the work and just putting the amount of power out. With a USB cable, it's a little bit more dependent upon what you then plug it into. And I guess the intention of this cable was a port versus a charger. Yeah, right. Which is a bummer, but I'm sure we can source you a replacement clock and I will get the cable and see if I can... Certainly not replicate your results, but replicate... Get some results that leave the clock intact. So If you did buy that cable or you have that cable on order, be careful what you connect it to. And don't pick some high voltage speed charger, you know, something like that, that you might have sitting around. Use something, or sorry, I guess it's higher wattage. But don't, yeah, don't use a higher power speed charger or something that might be too clever for what's a simple USB cable. Yeah, yeah. That's a bummer though, because those clocks are cool. Yeah. And not a, not a fortune. |
| Jason Heaton | No, no. I went 40 bucks or so. So I'll, I'll, I'll pick up another one because they're, they're too cool to pass up. So. |
| James Stacey | And speaking of not a fortune, how about we jump into a risk check? Cause I have kind of a, an interesting one. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. Um, yeah, you go first. In fact, I, I talk about mine in our interview that we're coming up on our main topic. So, uh, I'll just let you go and then we'll, we'll get into mine when, when we talk to Sean. |
| James Stacey | What have you got on? Recently, I got a selection of embargoed watches. from Casio. And I'm probably more a fan of Casio watches than I am of G-Shock for my own wrist. And I really, really enjoy these kind of reissue ones, whether it's the A500 that I've written about for Hodinkee previously, and that's arguably not even a reissue as much as a watch that they still make. But they make a lot of these ones that kind of pull from an 80s aesthetic that don't cost a fortune. Often they offer them in gold, And then recently, probably under pressure from brands like Timex with the Q and the rest, that more and more of them are coming on bracelets. Yeah. Which really does make kind of a handsome, fun, not expensive, certainly not like showy or flashy, but still kind of insider-y watch option. Yeah. That might be a little bit more interesting than an F91 or a different kind of inexpensive Casio. So the one I've got today is the new A100, which is sort of a rethinking of the F100, a vintage watch that was in some ways, you know, worn in the movie Alien by Ripley. This is sort of a different model format, but it's a digital watch with a resin case, a metal bracelet. It has a very small screen, and then it has four buttons, each one on the face of the watch just under the screen, uh, giving it a very easy sort of control scheme that doesn't require you to be pinching the case at all. And it's, uh, it's, it's not very big. It's super wearable, you know, they're, um, 40 millimeters long, 32 millimeters wide, and about nine millimeters thick, maybe a little bit more. They don't weigh that much. They get three years on a simple battery and the pricing. Uh, the one I have here is, is the a 100 in sort of a white metal effect. So it's a mirror polished, um, resin case with a metal bracelet, and that's the 1A. And the 1A is about $75 for this. So I'll put a link to it. I'm writing a post about a slightly different version of the same watch that'll come out pretty soon, next week, I believe, for Hodinkee. But this is something to have on your radar if you enjoy digital watch or if maybe you want to share a watch with a son or daughter in your life that's just getting into watches. This gives them you know, a break from trying to learn analog time. Maybe they can go into digital. It has a backlight, which is a big improvement over the, um, I know back when we did the eighties coverage for Houdinki, I wrote a story about the calculator watch or the databank. |
| Unknown | Yeah. |
| James Stacey | And, um, and that's a great watch, but the only thing for me that it was missing was a backlight. Right. Uh, you know, I don't mind the little screen. I don't mind the various, the simple, super lightweight, but I do really like a backlight and this has a backlight and it has a little orange bar. is the only marking. There's no words telling you what the buttons do. Yeah. And then it has this really fun orange single led backlight. I don't know. Charm charm per dollar is real high with these. Personally, if I was buying one, I would buy the nine a, which is the full yellow gold. I think it looks super fun. I think the three, the four color sort of UI, uh, becomes more interesting on the gold. And then with the bracelet, it has this sort of, early 80s, referencing the mid 70s sort of segment, um, tapered bracelet, but they all, and then on top of that, they make another one. That's sort of, um, the, uh, the W E G G one a, which has sort of a gun metal, darker gray finish. So, so I think all three are pretty, uh, pretty handsome things obviously depends on where you land on, um, on digital watches, but the, at least the two standard ones that are about $75 have, uh, negative LCD. So very easy to read. Um, and, uh, really, uh, really kind of just a, just a fun thing, not too big, not too small. Uh, they look really good. I I'm, I'm a fan for sure. |
| Jason Heaton | That's really cool. I mean, I, I think, uh, you know, I watched, uh, I don't remember which one it was now, but the, the motorcycle journey with Charlie Borman and Ewan McGregor. Oh, sure. And, uh, the most recent one and, and, you know, Borman's wearing a Bremont supermarine and he does a lot with Bremont and. McGregor's been seen with IWCs and Bramonts, but during that whole ride, he's wearing a, not this model, but a black, small digital Casio, the whole thing. And I'm like, that's kind of the move, right? If you're doing kind of a long, rugged endurance sort of trip around the world through various terrains and geographies and cities, um, kind of a little, no nonsense watch like this, that'll probably survive just fine. And, and, uh, have a few functions, you know, uh, alarm to wake you up and a backlight to read in the tent and Um, I can see this thing sort of just being more useful than, than a lot of, uh, expensive watches that, that we typically talk about. So that's, and it looks cool. I mean, it's funny, you know, we talked about the brew watch last, last week and this bracelet sort of reminds me it's that it's of that era. Um, yeah, absolutely. I love that. It looks really great. |
| James Stacey | Yeah. No, I'm, I'm a fan. So check that out. We'll show, we'll throw it in the show notes. And then Jason, why don't you give us yours and then we'll, we'll drop it right into, uh, into our, our, the chat we're excited about for today's episode. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. So, um, I've got on a CWC Royal Navy diver. This is my 1995 issued piece, uh, the courts version. Um, you know, it's a watch I've had a long time. I talked about it on my talking watches episode with, uh, with Hodinke. Um, and it just seemed like a fitting choice for today because we're, we're talking with, Um, British Royal Royal Marines. Um, he's something of a watch collector. He's a James Bond fan. He is, uh, first and foremost, I'd, I'd call him a fitness expert. He's done some fitness modeling, but he's also written the, the training manual for, for physical training for the Royal Marines, which is pretty impressive. And, uh, he's written a number of eBooks about, uh, physical fitness and nutrition. Um, and, uh, he's written a number of, uh, And he's just a really fascinating guy who speaks really well and just has a lot of interesting stuff to say. And I thought it would be kind of fitting for a guy who is a Royal Marine to wear a, this one actually has the Royal Marine 0555 markings on the back. So I thought, I thought I'd pay a little homage to, to Sean and to our chat with him and, and wear this one today. |
| James Stacey | Absolutely. Yeah. It's a great chat. And, you know, we just finished recording it before we started recording this segment and it was a real treat to have Sean on. I didn't know a lot about him before we recorded. This is one that Jason kind of brought to our planning schedule and lots of great information, a lot of practical, useful information, and then some, some good bond stuff, some good watch stuff and, and the rest. So that's Sean Lurwell, S E A N L E R W I L L on Instagram. You can hit the show notes for all the links we chat about, but let's get to it. |
| Jason Heaton | Thanks for joining us today, Sean Lurwell. I appreciate your taking the time to chat with us. |
| Sean Lerwill | It's a pleasure. Thank you very much for having me on. |
| Jason Heaton | We're often, we usually start our shows with a bit of a wrist check, James and I, to kind of tell our audience what each of us has on our wrists. And you're a bit of a watch collector. You have a very specific sort of niche taste in watches. Can you tell us, are you wearing a watch right now? And if so, what is it? |
| Sean Lerwill | I am. I've actually switched watches in the last couple of hours, but right now I've got a CWC automatic Royal Navy diver. So, Earlier on I had an Omega on, but I actually switched a couple of hours ago. |
| Jason Heaton | Oh, nice. I'm wearing the same. I have a 1995 issued CWC Royal Navy Diver, the quartz version. So, yeah, got mine on a bond striped NATO today in honor of our chat here. |
| Sean Lerwill | No, mine's actually on the grey NATO it came with. I'm being boring today, but I did have a Omega on earlier. that's on the, uh, the CWC, sorry, wrong, the Phoenix NATO, uh, of the vintage Connery bond strap. So I was almost there earlier. We're kind of, kind of crossing over a little bit. |
| Jason Heaton | Right. Right. So Sean, um, before we kind of jump into kind of the main, the meat of our, that might be an ironic comment, given what we chat about a little bit later, but the meat of our topic here, um, can you give us a little bit of background about yourself and, uh, kind of your, your journey to where you are today? |
| Sean Lerwill | Yeah, I guess I can. Depending on how far back you want to go, I became interested in joining the military in my teens. My grandfather was in the Second World War and I didn't really grow up with my father so he was quite an influence on me. So I ended up looking towards the military when I was about 15 or 16 and I ended up getting sponsored by the British Army through my A-levels and then that led me towards university and I ended up switching fire to Royal Marines on advice of a Royal Marine that I was on a cadet camp with at some point. So I studied molecular genetics at university, knowing that I was going to join the Royal Marines. Straight out of university, I decided to go traveling to Australia and America in my last bit of freedom before joining up. I think I turned, I was 21 when I joined, I turned 22 my first Saturday in the Royal Marines. So that was a fun Saturday, we weren't allowed off camp, Um, we, we did, uh, 14 months training. It was back then to become a Green Beret Royal Marines commando. And then I spent eight years, um, as a regular Royal Marine doing, um, various different jobs. Um, and during my time, sort of three and a half years in four years in, I chose to specialize. So Royal Marines are, uh, sort of a self-contained brigade as much as they can be in terms of You specialize within the Royal Marines so that you have all the capacity as an individual service. So there are drivers, chefs, clerks, but then you have mountain leaders, you have physical training instructors, you have medics, you have assault engineers and all these different specializations. So I specialized as a physical training instructor and then did a couple of years in that job, went off to a green duties job and then came back to, in the end, writing the Royal Marines Guide to Fitness for the Ministry of Defense. That was a Ministry of Defence sort of asked for a book published by a British publisher called Haynes. And then off the back of that, I decided to eject myself from the military, so to speak, and then spent about two years working for a company called Third Space, which was a big sort of, it was the health and fitness award winning health club in London, in Piccadilly at the time. And I helped them design their second premises. They've now got five. And then I decided to run my own businesses and consult in health, fitness, nutrition, that sort of thing. Um, and then about three years ago, I dipped my toe back into the military and I'm at the moment on a, on 180 day a year contract with the Royal Marines commandos, as well as running my own businesses and keeping interested in watches and, and being able to do chats like this. So that's a, that's a quite a long whistle stop tour. |
| Jason Heaton | Wow. That's a, that, that is quite the journey. There's obviously a common thread here of, of kind of strength and fitness and kind of readiness. Uh, is that something you were always into? Were you into sports when you were a school boy? I mean, did you, did you play rugby or, or, or football or anything like that? Or, or was it just, or were you always doing, you know, press ups and that sort of thing? Or was that something that came a little later? |
| Sean Lerwill | No, all, all of those things. So, um, I, I started playing rugby when I was 10 or 11, I think I won my first martial arts karate trophy when I was eight years old. I was a cross-country runner and a 400-meter runner, so I was county 400-meter runner, so it's a bit like your state, and then I was, sorry, county champion at 400 meters and then a national cross-country runner. Played rugby, sort of first team level at school, and then outside of school I played football for a local club until I was 16, and then it obviously went into men's football. So yeah, I always played sports. I think I started to get into press-ups and sit-ups and things probably when I was about 13 or 14, maybe 12, 13. And I think the influence probably, I know we're going to speak about it later, the Bond character, and then some of the other sort of film characters might see that the Rambo character, some of the sorts of military-esque characters you saw on TV and film, and the fact that there was a strength to the physique. I was probably not as confident as I would like to have been as a kid, not necessarily in sports, but with Certainly, certainly with girls, I wasn't as confident as probably I wanted to be, but then at 12 years old, who is? So, um, doing press-ups and sit-ups seemed to be, it made sense for me for my future career, for the sports and fitness, but also for a young, a young man at that age, thinking that that was going to help him. So that's probably where that came from, to be honest. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. I wasn't doing the math when you were kind of giving your background, but, uh, do you mind sharing how old you are now? |
| Sean Lerwill | I turned 40 recently. So, um, that wasn't, that wasn't as much fun as I thought it would be, but yeah, that's, that's, that's where I'm sitting in the world right now. |
| Jason Heaton | Well, you're still younger than me, but, uh, as you are, you know, aging, um, do you, are you finding that your, uh, philosophy or thoughts about fitness and strength and that sort of thing have changed since you were younger? Are you noticing different things about your body that you need to pay more or less attention to? Um, for instance, injury or, uh, fatigue or endurance and that sort of thing. |
| Sean Lerwill | I mean, I can't run as fast as I could over. So I used to be able to do 10 miles in an hour. You know, I used to do it weekly and it didn't really phase me. I wouldn't be able to run 10 miles at the same speed, but then I took about probably four or five years off running and really did very, very little. Um, because I wanted to concentrate on other things, um, such as gaining and keeping some muscle so I could do some of the fitness modeling I did. So, you know, That isn't necessarily indicative of getting older, but it's indicative of changing a goal, I guess. I'm a big believer, so as I said, I studied molecular genetics at university. I'm a big believer in our genes do pay a significant part of what we can achieve and where we can get to. But I also don't believe that age necessarily means that we can't do things. I think that we stop being able to do things as we age because we stop doing them. And then sometimes it's difficult to get them back. And the running is probably an example. Maybe I could achieve some of the speeds and times I used to before, but it's not the same goal as it used to be. So you say, what has changed with age? I think what has changed is what I want to achieve and what I want to do with my time. I don't think I train in the same way as I did 15 years ago, but I probably train more scientifically and for me in a better way to achieve what I achieve. And then obviously I know we're probably going to tap on it later. I've also changed the diet and the way I eat. within the military. So when I did my Royal Marines physical training instructors courses, the nutrition wasn't at the level that then when I left and decided to go down more scientifically backed courses, such as precision nutrition and that sort of thing. And then I'm back at university at the moment, studying, studying a master's in psychology. So getting better at dipping back into research papers. I think now I'm probably far more scientifically backed in terms of what I do. And that probably allows me to achieve more despite the age, if that makes sense. |
| Unknown | Yeah. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. I, and I just, I saw a study just last week that, uh, or news reports about a study that we no longer have the excuse of age for slowing our metabolisms down. I saw that there was a big study that said your metabolism peaks at age one and then goes kind of steadily down until 20 and then stays the same until you're 60. Um, so people that, that say they put on weight in the middle because their metabolisms are slowing down is no longer a valid excuse apparently. |
| Sean Lerwill | No, but I think that. Yeah. without wanting to dip really deep into the science, if your metabolism is at a certain level because you hold a certain amount of muscle, because muscle is a metabolic tissue, and you gain that muscle during your 20s, let's say, until you're 30, and then you decide to go down the career, the kids, the family, you're probably going to train less. And if you're not eating well, you're not going to be able to hold that muscle. So your metabolism will drop off, but only because you're not holding the same amount of muscle. In terms of your base metabolic rate, exactly as you've said, the research shows that That won't change. But if you don't do what you used to do, and it goes back to what I'm saying, I don't think we lose things as we age. I think we lose them as we age because we stopped doing them as we age. So that would, that would kind of match in exactly what you're saying. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah, sure. You know, if you had to kind of break down some, some very high level points that, that people should remember. I mean, I think you're a big advocate of, of kind of keeping it simple and body weight workouts, uh, largely, um, are, are very effective. Um, but some people come to their fitness goals for, for a sport specific reason. Some come to it for an aesthetic reason or, or maybe a health reason. You know, are there any sort of overarching, I don't want to say rules, but, uh, ideas that you can leave with, with people, um, kind of as they, they pursue their, their journeys in fitness. |
| Sean Lerwill | Yeah, I'll, I'll do my best. I think, um, before I do that, I'm going to caveat this with something. I did a, I did a talk, the Chartered Management Institute in the UK a week or so ago. And they asked me a question on the best traits for leadership. And I said, it depends. And then I gave my reasons why. And a friend of mine spoke to me afterwards. And he said, he's a businessman, works in London. He said, you're the sort of person I'd listen to, because if you start with it depends, I know you've got a depth of knowledge. People who come out and say, these are the golden rules, generally don't know the broad brush. So I'm going to start by saying, it does depend. But I'm going to try and give some sort of broad brush that will help anybody. As you say, I'm very much an advocate now for bodyweight training, calisthenics-style training, very much gymnastics-style training, and I've seen some really good gains for me both in terms of aesthetics and strength from ditching the weights, ditching the gym, but that was also a sort of mental health side of things i didn't enjoy the gym anymore so you don't need to do that but if you often say to people being able to do what you want to do so compliance is one of the most important things so there's no point in picking up a training program because Chris Hemsworth and Chris Evans do it, but you look at it and it's twice a day, six days a week, and there's no way with your lifestyle you're going to do it because you're just not going to do it. And that then isn't the program for you. So compliance is really, really important. So if you don't enjoy going to the gym or when you go to the gym, it's really, really busy and there's loads of people there. You don't have to go to the gym to achieve. So that's kind of something I'd say is really important is you've got to look at what works for your lifestyle. Um, I think too many people, whether it's sports specific, goals, whether it's aesthetics goals, whether it's health goals, underestimate the importance of nutrition. And there's an old mantra that you can't out train a bad diet. And, you know, if you look at that simply in terms of calories, if I think that I can go to the gym and go on a cross trainer or treadmill for 40 minutes and burn 500 calories, but then I walked straight into the takeout restaurant or even to Jamba Juice or whatever it may be and put a thousand calories down my neck, I'm never going to be able to win that battle if I don't understand what I'm doing. So, so many people I've helped have been training really hard. And this goes for people trying to lose body fat for aesthetics or young guys who are trying to put on muscle and they're doing an hour in the gym. It's not working hour and 15 minutes in the gym every day. It's not working hour and a half in the gym every day. They're now doing two hours in the gym every day trying to build muscle, but they're just not eating enough. And if you don't give yourself the building blocks to build, you can't do it equally. As I said, with the Jamba Juice and the gym, analogy, if you're eating more calories than you need and you're trying to lose body fat, you're never going to be able to do that. So as difficult as it is, there becomes a point for a lot of goals where you kind of need to look at it and say, okay, what does my body need for my goal? And how can I make that as simple as possible? And I think on, on David's, um, the bond experiences chat, I gave him some little analogies with, with hand sizes for palm size, amount of protein and two fist size amount of veg and a cup hand size amount of carbs and a thumb be a for your fats. And those sorts of things can be a lot simpler for people that you're having to count calories. So nutrition is definitely key. Um, and I know I'm going on a bit now, so I'm going to give you one more, which is progression. There is no point getting one workout and then doing that every single day for five years, three years, one year, even six months. Because I say to people, if you do the same workout with the same reps, the same weight, the same sets and the same rest, you will be the same you. you need to give your body something to adapt to. That's what we do with anything, with any progression in our lives, we have to look for change. So if I've done three sets of 10 press-ups today with a minute's rest, the next time I do that session, I might need to do three sets of 12 press-ups with a minute's rest, or I might need to do three sets of 10 press-ups with 45 seconds rest, and then the session after has to progress again. It might be 14 reps, or it might be taking that rest down to 40 seconds, or it might be going to four sets of 10, but something has to progress, and over a six week 12 week period, whatever that training program is, you need to make sure you're progressing because that makes the body adapt. And whether it's sports specific, whether it's fat loss or whether it's muscle gain, that will allow that to happen. And actually the same program could be used for all three of those goals, but with the nutrition on side and the progression on side, you'll actually reach that goal. |
| Jason Heaton | I think what's fascinating about this is that we're able to use our bodies as a science experiment. And I think, you know, what you just mentioned doing three sets of 10 with a minute between And then changing it to three sets of 12 or three sets of 10 with 40, 40 seconds between you can actually create your own little science experiment and see which gives you better results or which feels better or, or, you know, which is more effective. And I think that's, what's so fascinating and what's often lost with. With fitness in general. Um, and training is this idea that, that our bodies, I mean, there are our own little you know, uh, science experiments, we can, we can just do what we want. And the same, the same holds for, for nutrition as well. You know, what, what makes you feel better? What gives you more energy in the morning versus the evening and how you eat and, uh, how that affects you. And I think, I think that's part of the fun of it. I I'm guessing you agree with that. |
| Sean Lerwill | Yeah. I think there are some people out there that have even take it to that extent and looking at themselves as a science experiment. And Tim Ferriss, um, you've probably come across him in these books and bits and pieces. He's somebody who's done that and sort of takes that to, to quite an extent. So yeah, I'd 100% agree with that. And that comes back to that compliance I mentioned at the beginning, you have to work out what works best for you. So as you say, you can, you can, you can progress and adapt that training in a number of ways. And that's what I love about calisthenics and bodyweight training. It takes away the, in the gym, well, I just add more weight. Well, I just add more weight. Well, I just add more weight. Well, I can't do that with my own body weight, but what I can do is learn other ways to adapt. And then if you ever step back into the gym, you're far better understandings. You're saying that science experiment is your body and all the things you can adapt to reach your goal rather than just, well, I'll have more weight. Um, so yeah, a hundred percent agree with that. And I think, um, if anybody's interested in getting into it, um, that little bit of education that you can then use to make your body, your science experiment, you can actually get into it in a different sort of addictive way than just the, Oh, it's a chore. I've got to do my workout, you know? And as you say, you can, you can enjoy it then. |
| James Stacey | Sean, I'm just curious. I was wondering, In listening to you and chat about kind of the different aspects here, the food and the workouts and how to approach kind of phasing those workouts for actual changes and challenges and such, where, where do you land on the value of some of these? I'm not even sure, like a fad diet probably isn't fair, but just these, these kind of overarching methodologies of eating that have become kind of camps in the army of diets in the last few years, whether it's slow carb or paleo or, or Atkins several years ago. Are any of these things that you think are valuable stuff to try for most people, or is there a simpler way of going about it? |
| Sean Lerwill | So I think it's a really good question. It's a question I get asked a lot. And in my nutrition book, Successful Eating, I have a little bit on myths and fads. And I'm not saying that any of those things you mentioned are necessarily myths or fads, but it's just a way of categorizing it so that we can discuss it in the book. I'm a big believer, as was said at the beginning of the podcast, in keep it simple or keep it simple, stupid, as we say in the military. And I think there is a simple way to lose body fat or to gain muscle, which is calories in and calories out. And if you get that right, you can make either of those goals for the majority of people, unless they've got underlying health, biological issues that might be hormonal, that we might need to look into a bit more in more depth. With Some of these other diets you've mentioned, the overarching thing they're trying to do is control calories. So a low-carb diet, because people generally in the West tend to overeat carbs, it's a simple way of |
| Sean Lerwill | you can't really achieve or very few people can achieve without paying attention to nutrition. What these diets allow people to do is to pay attention to nutrition without really having to think about it other than, well, I just don't eat those foods or I don't eat within that time. The problem with them is for me, and I'm going to use fasting as an example because it's one that has gained a lot of and works for a lot of people. And I'm certainly not saying it doesn't work and people shouldn't do it. I'm going to come back again to compliance and say, if your work routine or your work life routine or your work family routine means that it's much easier for you to not eat here, here or here, but to eat here, then that might be the reason for you to do it. Is it optimum for gaining muscle? Definitely not, in my opinion. Is it optimum for losing body fat? To a point. The problem with any of these things is if you try to lose body fat by just cutting out certain calories or certain macros, there can be a detriment on your metabolism. And we spoke about metabolism at the beginning of this. And that's why something like carb cycling, where somebody might be low carb for three days and then take the carbs up for a day and then low carb for three days and then take the carbs up, which is something that a professional bodybuilder might do to lose body fat. The reason they do that is because carbohydrate really affects our hormones and certainly some of the master control hormones. So by eating high carbs every three or four days, you reset that. It also gives the mind something to look forward to so that people don't go crazy because they're just on a low carb diet or, and people can get into bad routines such as anorexia and that sort of thing. So, um, if somebody is really looking to, to do a hard line, I'm going to use inverted commas diet, then something like carb cycling can be really useful. But I would say the best way to do it is to do the calorie calculations. And I always advocate the Harris Benedict equation which you can look up on the internet. Get your understanding of what your calories are. Use something like my fitness panel for two or three days to put your food in so you realize how much you're eating or not eating. From that, depending on what your goal is, you can match your calories with what you need. I believe that's the best way to gain muscle, lose body fat, give yourself enough calories for sports performance. And it's a more scientific method than, well, I'm going to follow this diet, which might work for six weeks. It might work for eight weeks. And that's usually the problem, isn't it? Somebody wants to lose body fat for the beach or for the wedding or whatever it is, and they leave it to the last minute. And unfortunately, that's not always the best way to do it. |
| James Stacey | Yeah, I, uh, I agree with, with, uh, with that. And it certainly makes sense. And take it from me, those listening who are going to do the MyFitnessPal, don't do your three cleanest, perfect days as your measurement, uh, you know, try and be realistic when you're when you're kind of starting to track that. I think when I went through the first few times, uh, you know, using some of those apps, I, uh, I was suddenly felt like I was being accountable for it. So I would only, I would have these really healthy days. And then I used that as a baseline and it just simply wasn't, wasn't accurate for the way that I was living or, or hopefully training. |
| Sean Lerwill | A hundred percent. And I completely agree with that. And something I say in my successful eating book is, What you need to create is something that's a lifestyle. And that's why I don't believe in diets. Because if you diet for eight weeks, as you've just said, you're going to try and be as perfect as you can for that period of time. But at some point, you're going to go back to what you did before. Well, inevitably, then either you're not going to eat enough, and you're going to lose the muscle you've gained, or you're going to eat too much, and you're going to put the body fat back on. So that's why I say if you can If you can understand how to eat for your needs, you can do that for the rest of your life and be very, very fit and very happy. Still having the days where you eat things that people would consider not so good for you, but you do that in conjunction with your training and your overall plan. And that's a much healthier lifelong way to do it rather than trying to do it with one of these diets and people slip into anorexia, bulimia, or even just having a bad relationship with food and feeling bad about eating certain things, which is not what any of us want. Life's hard enough as it is. |
| James Stacey | Yeah, I did. I did a couple years of slow carb, you know, after reading Tim Ferriss's book, The 4-Hour Body. And it worked. It was very effective. And genuinely, I felt pretty well. But it did change my relationship with food in some weird ways that took me kind of a while to correct, as I found kind of more of a happy medium. So I can definitely understand where you're coming from with that comment. You know, I like this because there's some practical stuff in here that I think a lot of people could apply You know, Jason would back me up on this. Another question we get a lot, and it's actually come up in some of our personal experiences, is let's say I live somewhere that's kind of flat and not mountainous, and I've bought into a guided trip on Mount Rainier or Mount Baker, as Jason and I have done before. What are a few things that you would want people to consider on, let's say, if they had six months to train for something that they can't really try to do locally? |
| Sean Lerwill | Yes, essentially what you're saying is I need to train for moving at speed under weight up a mountain, but I have absolutely no way of training up a mountain. That's the crux. So what you want to do is improve your cardiovascular system. A Royal Marines PTI I used to work with, we would be talking about how soon you put recruits under weight, how soon you put weight on their back or on their hips and get them running with weight. And he was an advocate for Just get them to be able to run and run hard and fast without any weight, because all that's going to happen when you add the weight to their back is it's going to slow them down. And I think there's a little bit of that in what you're saying is if you're generally cardiovascular fit, and let's say we decide to do it scientifically and say, get a heart rate monitor, get one of these sort of Garmin or whatever different smartwatches people use, whichever one they want, and then go out for half an hour at a time, 40 minutes at a time, 50 minutes an hour, but keep the heart rate, let's say between 130 and 140 and you can do the heart rate calculations to work out what that will be for you. That will strengthen your heart and you then find that you, let's say you set at doing it for an hour, you find then that you can get further in that hour over a period of weeks, keeping your heart rate within that window and that's you getting fitter. All that's going to happen when you go uphill is you're going to be a bit slower because you're adding that weight. I would then add some conditioning sessions, and before I did a course in the military that required me to run up down what they call the hills in Wales for a while, I would get a box, let's say it's just higher than knee height or around knee height, depending on your size, and I would do step ups with my right leg onto it for 20 reps, step up with my left leg onto it for 20 reps. I then stand sideways next to it. I'd step up sideways with the right leg for 20 reps, turn around, step up sideways with the left leg for 20 reps. Turn around and face away from the box. And I do, um, 40 squats to touch my backside to the box. Um, I would then do walking lunges, 20 out, 20 backs of 40 in total. Once I'd mastered that for five rounds with one or two minutes rest between the rounds with no kit, I'd then add a backpack and put 10 kilos in it. Do it again for a few weeks, then add another five kilos, do it again. And you get up to 20, 25 kilos and you're doing five rounds of this doing step ups, front side squats. All that is doing is conditioning the endurance in your legs to be able to do these movements. And then when you're walking uphill, you've got a little bit more strength. So if you do those sorts of leg conditioning exercises in conjunction with these long, slow heart rate, what we would call lists, low intensity, steady state exercise regimes, you'll probably find that then you get to the mountain and you may even be more conditioned than somebody that's been randomly running up and down hills near their local area because they haven't been scientific with their training. |
| James Stacey | Yeah, and my guess is that doing the variety of the steps is also going to give you some injury prevention or the hopes of some injury prevention from using some kind of smaller muscle groups that maybe aren't that commonly used, you know, moving between the couch in the car and the car in the office and that sort of thing. |
| Sean Lerwill | Yeah, well, if you think about it, you're exactly right. If you think about it, we go to a gym and we work in these very linear bench press, I'm pushing from my chest forward, shoulder press, I'm pushing from my shoulders upwards. But if you're coming out of the car with some shopping bags from your local supermarket and carrying them in and then trying to pick them up, put them on a shelf, or you're loading up a van to go up to the mountains, we don't lift and move like that. So people use the term a lot these days, functional fitness. And I always say, when I say somebody saying they're a functional fitness expert is what are you functional in? Because what's functional to a 90-year-old person in a nursing home is completely different to what's functional to a dog handler in the police who's 25. They might have to pick a dog up, put it in the back of the van. This person just needs to be able to get out of their chair. But you're absolutely right. If we use the right training for what we want to be functional for, we don't just want to move in one linear plane, hence these step-ups of forward, side, and you're squatting backwards. We're trying to look at the variety of movements you might have on that hill. |
| Jason Heaton | and therefore as you say strengthen a variety of muscles in the legs so hopefully when you're at your tired most tired point up or down the mountain and you slip or what it may be you've bulletproofed your body so you're not going to injure yourself absolutely yeah sean um before we kind of get into some some more fun topics here not that this isn't fun um i wanted to circle back to to just a short discussion about nutrition and and the fact that uh you've recently i don't know how recently but you've moved to a plant-based diet which is which is something I've dabbled in and then moving more and more towards. Um, and, and people do this for various reasons. I think you've done it for ethical reasons and that's kind of why I'm headed in that direction. But I think that the difficult part of a plant-based diet of course is a big part of strength building, right? And that's, that's finding protein. Um, and I'm guessing that, you know, you're someone who works out more than the average person. You're obviously very strong and I'm wondering how do you get enough protein on a given day? from a plant-based diet. I mean, there's only so many beans you can eat, right? |
| Sean Lerwill | Yeah. And I think this comes back to, it's a good question. And it's one I get asked a lot because, you know, I must admit I was, I was a vegetarian for a couple of years while I was on the Royal Marines physical training staff. So that would have been, you know, well over 10 years ago. Um, and then I actually stopped when I went out to Afghanistan. It wasn't, it wasn't easy to uphold it. And then as soon as I was working for myself and living with myself, vegetarianism came back to me very quickly, as you say, for mainly ethical reasons. And then probably three years ago, four years ago, I don't think it was that date, my partner Kate and I were both abroad on a job and the food we were given wasn't great. We both just agreed this is the time. But I must admit, Six months before that, I ripped my, it was 2016, yeah, so I ripped my bicep from my, it was a distal rupture, so that the tendon came off the bone. And I had to have a fiber-wired anchor into the bone to put the tendon back on. It was doing a lever, if you know what that is, on a bar, and I was probably fatigued from the day before. And one of those things, I learned a lesson as you do. And we've been talking about, at that point, going completely plant-based. I said to myself at that point, I need to heal. And exactly the point you're making, I need the protein. I knew from some research that had come out, I was actually consulting for GlaxoSmithKline at the time on their supplement brand about nutrition. So I knew there was some research suggesting 20 grams of protein every four hours kept muscle protein synthesis where you want it in terms of muscle building and stopping catabolism and that sort of thing. I didn't at that point, but looking back now, I could have done. So in answer to your question, just to give that little anecdote there, I do eat quite a lot of beans, legumes, all those sorts of things. And I just kind of replace what people normally would with animal products in a meal with those. So whether it's, you know, the high protein beans would be your kidney beans, you've got your chickpeas, you've got all the different mixed lentils, legumes. So I just find sometimes I just get a mixed tin of beans and lentils, or it might be a a tin of kidney beans or a tin of chickpeas. I might mix that in with some hummus and some pita breads for lunch and that sort of thing. So all the normal things you do, just taking away those other products, the animal products. In the morning, I generally have a lot of nuts and seeds in with my porridge oats, which I don't cook actually, I just have them cold. And I must admit, at least twice a day, I'll have a plant-based protein shake. And I use the sort of the cleanest, no added additives, no all natural flavors. So that I'm not getting, I'm trying to avoid processed foods as much as I can, as well as I'm sure a lot of people out there do. But those two hits, one in breakfast and one post training, that gives me a decent hit of protein. So over the day, if I actually do my macros, I'm still getting about the same protein numbers I did before. If you use grains like couscous, quinoa, those sorts of things as well, you can get quite a big protein hit from that. And then one of the best things I found from being plant-based is the amount of vegetables I eat and the sort of broad variety of vegetables I eat. And actually, when you look at the makeup of broccoli, spinach, whatever it may be, there's more protein in those than we may realise. Now, you can't get all your protein from those, but when you add up the beans, the quinoa, the couscous, the chickpeas, and the vegetables. Actually, it's not as hard as we've been led to believe. I thought I might add some body fat and lose some muscle. Actually, conversely, I weighed myself for the first time post-COVID. Kate and I went to a hotel. I was a couple of kilos heavier than I thought I would, but just as lean. That's not using a gym, all home-based calisthenics, gymnastic-based workouts, and eating completely plant-based for you know, three or four years. And actually, I'd added a couple of kilos. And it's most of its muscle. I can I can I can swear that's what that's what it is. So it's not as hard as you may think it is, is what I'm saying. |
| James Stacey | If somebody is looking at the side of a protein container and reading what it says, what should they be looking for? |
| Sean Lerwill | It kind of depends on what their goals are. So a lot of people look for a protein that has zero carb because we've been led to believe that carbohydrate is going to add body fat, because as I said before, in a Western diet, a lot of people do overeat carbohydrate. But actually, if you're thinking of it as something you're going to have post-workout, you actually want twice as much carbs as you do protein post-workout. So this is where some people will say, you know, with a plant-based diet, oh, but there's loads of carbs, or at least some carbs in a legume or in a bean. Well, actually, depending on what you're eating and what you want it for, you actually want those carbs. So I generally put about 30 grams of protein in a post-workout shake, and then I'll put a chemical names that you don't really know what they are, like gum, gum stabilizer and this sort of thing. Those are the things where you might think, I want something that's a little bit better. What you want to do is pick up something that says on there, natural flavors, no additives, or they might be natural additives. So if they're flavoring it, they're looking at using, I know when I was consulting for one company, they had a little palette in front of us and it had all these colored little bits of powder on it. And each one of them was from some sort of berry or fruit that they distilled down into the flavoring. And then we tasted those and it's weird psychologically because you're not seeing it. You're trying to work out what this taste is and you know it, but you can't put it into words and they tell you. And then that's what they use to flavor these different things. Those are the things you want to go for. And when they sweeten it, you want a natural sweetener as well. You don't want, you know, I believe you don't necessarily want to have lots of these false fake sweeteners. And again, you can look on the side of a packet and look at these things that you've never heard of before and get your phone out and Google them and see what they are. And my belief is with nutrition, again, it's keep it simple. We want to have as limited processed, as limited additives. So I said it on David's video I did a couple of weeks ago, but there's something I go by, which is crap. So you want to avoid crap, which is carbonated drinks, refined sugar, additives, and in brackets, alcohol, because you want to limit alcohol depending on your goals, and processed foods. And those last two, those additives and processed foods. Now, obviously, a protein powder is going to be processed. That is what it is. But if you can avoid as much processed additives as you can, you can get the best out of that, which is the distilled down plant protein while avoiding the dairy proteins and the ethical side of the dairy industry, which obviously I'm a big believer in. But also for a lot of people, they don't get on well with lactose. um, or they might not get on with dairy in general. So you can step across to a plant protein, you don't get the bloating, you feel a bit better, but you still have to watch out for some of the companies will make their money by making it cheap and pumping out a lot of product. But generally they might have the, um, the additives and the process things that you want to avoid. |
| Jason Heaton | You know, uh, speaking of plant-based, if, if someone looks at your Instagram feed, um, I see a lot of fitness stuff, of course, some watches and then a lot of coffee, which is, Which seems like it must be your favorite plant-based food. You're quite a coffee fiend, aren't you? That's an important piece of your nutrition. Are you always experimenting with new coffees and how do you take your coffee? What's the way you prepare it typically? |
| Sean Lerwill | Yeah, so the irony with this is, as a kid, I wouldn't go near coffee. And actually, I was the role marine if we were out in the field that wouldn't drink a hot drink. I didn't drink tea or coffee. It just wasn't for me. I remember probably being in my late 20s and needing to go to business meetings and not knowing what to order in a coffee shop. So I started with a mocha. And you feel like you're a 13-year-old ordering this coffee chocolate drink. So the irony there is that one of the little businesses that my partner Kate and I had prior to prior to the COVID pandemic, which caused a lot of businesses problems, was a small production company. And we were asked to make a coffee documentary by a cinema company called Torquay's Community Cinema. So they just wanted a sort of 10, 15 minute documentary looking at the community aspects of coffee. And I was already, you know, starting to drink coffee for, you know, just because it was a drink when you go in and sit with people. And my girlfriend's always like coffee, so she would go to coffee shops. But during this documentary, I started to understand speciality coffee to a different level and realizing that that was actually a more ethical way to have coffee as well. So in answer to your question, how do I drink coffee? I usually use a V60, which is a pour over sort of drip method. And I have really got into it. The beauty for me, so a bit like with a scotch, instead of having the blend, you'll have a single malt. So it's the same with the coffee. So what you find with some of these coffee roasters, I've got one here, is a Rafael Amaya Finca La Virginia, which is from Colombia, grown at 1800 to 1900 meters. The variety is pink bourbon, and the process at which they've got the bean out is a double anaerobic. And the tasting notes are plum, apricot, brandy with cinnamon. So what I found with these coffees is it doesn't taste like coffee. Obviously, they've not put any of those flavors in. This is what's naturally there in the bean. What you also find is a lot of these speciality coffees are grown at really high altitude. And because the caffeine is a natural pesticide, grown at high altitude, they're actually quite low caffeine or very low caffeine in some cases. So what I've really got into is speaking to some of these roasters that, you know, that these guys sourcing these coffees from all over the world, from these amazing farmers that are trying to grow these speciality beans. Now, this costs a bit more. It certainly costs the roaster a bit more to bring in the bags of coffee because to grow it at high altitude. And these guys are very special. They know exactly when to pick it. But what you're finding is, is when you're drinking it, it's like a fine wine and you can have three different coffees in front of you from maybe even the same area in Columbia or in Rwanda or wherever it is. But the preparation with the V60 as well, you might do a 30 second pour of 30 grams of water and then wait for a minute and then do another pour and that can bring out the bitterness or that can bring out the sweetness. So it is a little bit scientific. You can probably see a theme here with my life. But I find then it tastes so much better than, you know, a black coffee. I do drink it black, but it is so much better than your sort of wake up juice, as I like to call it, which is the red eye before you get your flight early in the morning from an airport. This is a a treat, so to speak. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Good call. I've got a cup going right here. Um, before we kind of, uh, wrap things up a bit, um, you know, I wanted to touch a little bit about your interest in, in James Bond and, and you have a book called Be More Bond that I recently downloaded and took a look at. And, um, it's, it's obviously a fitness oriented book, but I think you, you kind of come at it from a different sort of angle and that is, uh, You know, as I understand it, you know, let's say those of us that have seen Casino Royale and you see the scene with Daniel Craig as Bond coming up out of the ocean and he's extremely muscular and, um, wearing the, the swim trunks and whatever. Um, you know, you see that and you think, ah, I'd kind of like to look like that, you know, and it kind of is representative of this lifestyle of this. X a commando who travels the world and does interesting things in exotic places. And, um, you know, I think your focus on kind of body weight exercise calisthenics, it kind of fits into this notion of a globe-trotting man of mystery, a secret agent who's maybe, you know, flitting from hotel to beach to mountaintop, maybe doing press-ups and running upstairs when he needs to. Where did this come from? Where did your interest in Bond come from and how does that tie in with your kind of fitness career? |
| Sean Lerwill | So I was I was named after Sean Connery, funny enough. I think I was almost called James, but my mother was fearful that I would end up being called Jim. And she wasn't she wasn't too keen on that. So I was I was called Sean. So as you can imagine, that meant that growing up, I was was watching quite a few Bond films with my mom. She was a big fan. And, you know, I remember then buying the video cassettes with her and, you know, watching the celebrations when they had the different year celebrations. I think we've got one coming up soon. James Bond was sort of part of my life from very young. And the inspiration for the book was actually chatting to David. David was talking about doing abdominal workouts. I think he asked me to do, could I put together an abdominal workout? And similar to the discussion we've had at the beginning of this, I had to make the point that abdominals don't come because you sit there and do hundreds of sit-ups. That is actually completely the wrong thing to do. And if anybody's listening, thinking that the way they get a six pack is to do lots and lots of abdominal work, I wrote on somebody's Instagram recently, I don't do any specific abdominal work. I really don't. I've managed to luckily get myself on the front cover of a couple of fitness magazines for being relatively lean and having quite a strong set of abs. I believe that's come from hard running and understanding nutrition and doing big compound movements as big all bodyweight movements that then enabled me to train the abdominals for that, from that even, but then also keep the body fat low. I said to David, actually, I've been toying with a completely no-kit workout and I'm wondering whether that would tie into a character like Bond, who in reality would find it very, very difficult to keep up a gym regime because he never knows when he's suddenly going to be on 12 hours notice to move, 2 hours notice to move, 1 hour notice to move. I was on years and years ago, I was on a two minutes notice to move timeline for a job, only for a short period of time, but we were in our boots and our webbing when we were on that two minutes notice to move. You need to be able to train within that. For him, that is training in the hotel room, that is training down on the beach, that is, as you say, it might be he's staying in a hotel near a mountain and going out for a run near the mountain and then finding a tree that you can do pull-ups on or whatever it may be. So the inspiration was, let's give people a bit of a background into how I see this character and the sort of healthy living that they may have, to a point, obviously, enjoying the finer things in life. And we talked before about, you know, my beliefs in coffee, but then also with the plant-based protein, trying to avoid the additives in processed foods. And my point with Bond is, we know he likes the finer things in life, from his taste in clothing, his taste in watches, his taste in hotel rooms, which we see in Quantum of Solace, So he's probably going to like the finer things in life in terms of his food and even his alcohol. If you've got to drink, don't put really terrible stuff into your body. Put the better stuff in your body because it might not do as many bad things. And that's the same as the plant-based protein. So yeah, the idea of that book was there's some unarmed combat in there. There's some swimming in there. There's some running in there. And there's some complete no-kit workouts. And usually I would at least put a pull-up bar in there or something like that, or some dip bars. |
| Jason Heaton | but this really was he doesn't have anything so can he use a hotel room using the door frame using the door um to keep his fitness and his muscle and and that was the idea so i hope you enjoyed it i hope other people do yeah yeah that's great we'll put a link in in the show notes i think it was uh it was really cool it's i like coming at it from that angle obviously i'm a big uh big james bond fan as well and i i uh i found it really nice um before we kind of wrap up i i wanted to kind of segue into a little bit talk about your watch collection because you know it's kind of fun that you're into watches since a lot of our listeners are as well and so are James and I and you seem to have a very specific focus. You collect largely special edition, limited edition, often kind of military regiment issue watches from I believe you have a couple of CWCs and Breitling and and Omegas. How did you get started in watches and kind of what are your favorites? |
| Sean Lerwill | How did I get started? I think I thought about this because I'm not sure what you guys think, but you don't always know when you started doing something. It's all of a sudden like a bit like the coffee. I'm pretty sure it was the documentary, but somebody might say to me, well, I think actually you were looking into it beforehand. So my grandfather, again, circling back to him, he had two big clocks, a grandfather clock and a grandmother clock in his house. And when I was a kid, after school, I would go there and I would help him wind them. And then he had like a little watchmaker ornament, which I've now got in my house. So I think it probably, even if unconsciously, started with him. And he had a couple of pocket watches and this sort of thing. I remember being in commando training and wanting to get a watch, and I ended up getting a Tracer, which was the first Swiss-made watch I got. But also the tritium dial at the time was really, really useful. And then I'm going to give my ex wife some credit. We were in an airport. I think it was probably Heathrow. It was Heathrow. And she'd been talking to me about this Breitling emergency watch. And there was no way I was going to spend that sort of money on a watch at the time. And she came running over and saying, they've got that watch. They've got that watch. And it's tax free. And I said to her, yeah, still, I'm not spending that sort of money. And I'd actually had a wrist injury during my time in the military playing rugby. And there was a payout for that, which happens sometimes when you get injured on work time, even though it was a sport injury. And she said to me, you've got a bit of money there from that. Why don't you put it towards a really nice watch? You've always wanted one. I said to her, I wouldn't get a Breitling Emergency. They've got these bright yellow faces. It's not for me. And she said, well, this one's got a black face. So next thing you know, I'm sat on an aircraft to Barcelona holding this brand new Breitling Emergency, feeling quite physically sick. Um, and, and the bot that, cause it comes in a big case, they sent that back to my address and I just took the watch and, you know, I was at, got to the hotel and they've got to have a safe in the hotel and that sort of thing. And didn't, didn't wear it very much. Cause I was, I was afraid. And I think, um, that probably started it off. And then I used to get annoyed with that watch every couple of years because it's a, uh, it's a battery watch and I'd have to take it into Brightling and then it'd be away from me for six to eight weeks, which, which really started to annoy me. And I hadn't really got hold of any other watches at that point. So I then saw a secondhand special edition, one of the Bond Omegas. And I thought, you know what? That'll tide me over. It's a really good price. And when I got to the shop, the price, actually, the first two figures were reversed from what I'd seen online. So it was almost twice as much as what I thought it was. So as they do in London, would you like to come in? Because you can't get in as a security guard. And by then, I decided, well, I'm not going to spend that. And they said, come in. And next thing you know, they've got the watch, and I'm trying it on. And then I thought, you know what, why not? So I pulled up the internet and I showed them and they let me have it for the price that was on the internet. So, um, I got, I got a really good price on that one. And I think then I realized that there were some nicer M80s in the collection that perhaps I preferred. Um, and then as you rightly say, there was then, um, a Royal Marines 350 watch, um, which was to celebrate 350 years of the Royal Marines. That was a Breitling. Um, and they only made 350 of those. Um, so I decided that was something that I would need to get for need, I would need to get for the collection. And then there was an Omega that was only one of 50, there were only 50 made. So I got one of those, which was a Royal Marines physical training branch, Omega Seamaster Chrono. CWCs, I remember being on one job in Northern Ireland, my first proper job really. And one of the things I had to do was to go into the stores and make sure I mustered everything. And in there they had the CWC G10, which I could never get issued one actually. I could get one on that job, but after that you couldn't really get them. But I decided I was going to get hold of one of the 0555 Royal Marine ones. So a few years back, I got one of those. And then that led to a friend of mine had a CWC SBS, which he'd been issued. And then I decided to get hold of one of those because again, you know, getting issued these things is quite difficult sometimes. And then I think CWC had a bit of a deal on one of the RN divers. And I know Mal at CWC quite well. In fact, I remember a message she reminded me. So I decided to pick one of those up. And you can see where this is going. It just started to grow. And then the James Bond Omegas, there was just a few there that I really like. I really love the Planet Ocean. So Casino Royale, I think, is a really great film. I think they did such a good job with that. So I decided to pick up the extra large PO from that because I've got quite big hands. And then the latest one to the collection was actually a birthday present from my mum, in part, which was the Spectre, which I wasn't planning on getting, actually. But I'm really glad I added that one to the collection. It is a really beautiful watch. And that's probably going to be it for a while. I've said to myself, I'm going to get anything else I'm probably going to need to sell. There was a Rolex Submariner in there at one point, but I did end up getting rid of that, actually, for reasons probably part of another conversation. But I'm happy to go into it if you guys want. So yeah, I love my watches. I've got quite a few sat here in front of me as I'm talking. I wouldn't do without them, but sometimes I do think life would be simpler if I had only one. |
| Jason Heaton | That sounds like a journey that we've all been on. |
| James Stacey | Yeah, yeah. Wouldn't one be a lot easier than what we've decided to do here? But if you did have to pick one, what's the one that gets most of the time these days? |
| Sean Lerwill | It's probably the Spectre. or the Planet Ocean. I can't put the Planet Ocean down. It's been my favourite for many, many years. I just really love the way it looks. But the Spectre has come in and it's definitely getting its time. And then to be honest, the CWCs jump on the wrist all the time. And to ruin this conversation completely for you, whenever I train, I train with the Garmin Tactics because it logs my heart rate and I can log the rest periods and all that sort of thing. And I've recently bought the heart rate monitor for it for swim training and running rather than using the wrist heart rate. And I found that really interesting. So that actually gets a daily wear because I pretty much train five or six days a week. So that's great. Yeah. In answer to your question, it's one of the amazing. |
| James Stacey | Yeah. Jason are huge, huge Garmin fans. I actually have my, uh, I have a descent on, uh, as we record this, they make, uh, they make a great product and I, I find it really handy for, yeah, for working out and being able to track, you know, big hikes and things like that. They, uh, they offer a lot of function for sure. |
| Sean Lerwill | I didn't want to get a smartwatch for ages. I said, I'm not giving up risk space for one of these. And I think actually, I'm trying to think of who it was. I read an article that somebody had said the same thing. He wasn't going to give up risk space to a smartwatch. So I put it off, put it off, put it off. And I went on a two-week military course. And there was a couple of guys in the course who all had Um, a Garmin and we, we had exams and tests and one where I look at my stress levels yesterday when I did the exam and then look how much sleep I got last night. And then of course I got, I got sucked into it and I got home and I had to get one. But as you say now, you know, it really is good. I think the motivating people, and I've said this to friends, you know, I can look at my runs, look at the route, look at where I've slowed down. You know, as I said, if you're doing these long, slow heart rate runs, you can see how over a period of time doing the same run, you've got quicker, even though you're keeping the heart rate the same. Um, so yeah, like you, I think they're a great piece of kit. Um, I just, I couldn't wear it all the time. I just have to put one of the others on. Otherwise they're just, they're just a waste set there in a winder. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. Well, this has been a really great discussion and I wanted to close things out by, um, you know, pointing people obviously to your Instagram. And I think one thing that's great about it is that, uh, you post a lot of, uh, quotes. I mean, I, I'm so impressed with the number of quotes that you find that you post on your Instagram stories. Um, and we always close out our episodes with a quote and you know, oftentimes James and I are recording this and then we're kind of scrambling to find one at the last minute, but you're just prodigious in your quote to posting. Um, have you got a favorite or a good one that you can leave us with today? |
| Sean Lerwill | A favorite or a good one? |
| James Stacey | You seem to have a taste for the Stoics. |
| Sean Lerwill | I've got into the Stoics recently. I really have. But do you know what? The one that, the one that I've written in, I think every book I've written, certainly all the ones for Haynes, was Know Thyself. And I actually lost a Leatherman. I think I said this in Jason's, sorry, in David's talk a couple of weeks ago. I lost the Leatherman. I took it into an airport and I forgot, didn't put it in my case. And they took it off me because it was American. It was actually on the anniversary of 9-11. So obviously it didn't go down too well that I had that in my bag. And Kate got me a new one and she got that engraved on the blade. So I think that's probably going to be the one I'm going to go for. I do believe, and I've been studying it, as I said, a master's of psychology, I think the more we can understand about ourselves as individuals, and we are all individual, there are many similarities between us all, but we are all individual. The more we can understand about our own strengths and weaknesses, I think that the better we can work with other people, work with ourselves and probably succeed in a lot of the things we want to succeed at. So that would probably be, if you pushed me to be the one that I've probably used the most over the years, or the one that I've fallen back on the most, Um, there are some sort of ones I've had recently that I think I've been really useful to me. Um, uh, and I'm, I'm willing to drop one of those if you want to. Um, but you know, I think know thyself would be, would be the one that I would come back to again and again. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. Well, that works for us. That's great. Well, thanks. Uh, thanks so much for spending an hour with us, Sean. It was, uh, it's been just a great discussion. I feel like we could go on for another hour talking about, uh, all these topics, fitness and nutrition and bond and watches and everything else. So, uh, We'll let you go for today and thanks so much for joining The Grey Nato. |
| Sean Lerwill | Yeah, we appreciate it a lot. Thank you so much, both of you, for having me on. It's been a pleasure. Anybody that's made it this far, thank you for listening. |
| Jason Heaton | All right, so Sean Lurwell, that was a great chat. Again, thanks to Sean for joining us on The Grey Nato. I hope our listeners got a lot out of that. I think I could go on another hour with Sean. I'm not usually that keen on kind of going on about fitness and training. Um, but I think his perspective is, is somewhat unique in that he's not about, you know, gym workouts and that sort of thing. He's more about, you know, kind of practical everyday, really common sense advice. And so that was, that was a lot of fun. |
| James Stacey | That was great. Yeah. And if you have any questions that you might want to put to the other listeners or to Sean, Be sure to swing by notes.thegrenator.com, our new Substack platform. Make an account, log in. You can subscribe and get the whole show delivered to your inbox every Thursday morning. That's the show, the photos, the notes, the rest of it. And those are the whole comment section, which has really been blowing up. I took some time off for that vacation and then dipped back in yesterday morning and was very thrilled to see how much was going on in there. If you haven't swung by the comment section on any of the recent shows, be sure to do that. And like Jason said, a huge thank you to Sean Lurwell for being on the show. Jason, how about we get to some final notes? |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah, I'll go first. This one's actually relevant to our talk with Sean. He mentioned his appearance on The Bond Experience with David Ziritsky and The Bond Experience is my final note today. I first learned of this a few years ago. David Ziritsky is a I think he's a marketing professional, um, executive actually, uh, based out in, I believe, Pennsylvania or the East coast. Um, but his, his, his kind of real passion is, uh, kind of, uh, James Bond and, and kind of collecting memorabilia around James Bond. Um, he's put together a, uh, a website and, and more, I guess, uh, more importantly, a, a great YouTube channel. And he, he really keeps it up with almost weekly videos. Uh, in which he interviews guests and he talks about, you know, where to source various clothing and props for movies. Uh, he recently did an interview with Lindy Hemming, who was the costume designer for most of the Brosnan films, and then also for Casino Royale. She was the woman responsible for bringing Omega to the Bond franchise. So that was kind of cool to listen to. Um, but what I like about David is, is he goes at it with such gusto and his, his kind of whole thing is, you know, Um, you know, we always, the cliche is that, that men want to be like James Bond, you know, we want to kind of live that lifestyle, driving fast cars and, um, you know, going on exotic adventures. And, um, you know, his, his idea is that, okay, you're not going to do that, but you can kind of. Squeak little bits of it here and there into your current life, whether it's a piece of luggage you're carrying or the watch you're wearing or the, the polo shirt you've got on or whatever, it can kind of emulate what you see in the films. And, um, I had learned about Sean. through the Bond experience because I subscribed to his YouTube channel and he had interviewed Sean a few weeks ago about nutrition, um, and fitness because Sean has an ebook called Be More Bond, uh, that we talked about with Sean, um, in which he kind of describes, you know, maintaining the lifestyle and fitness of, of, uh, kind of the fictional James Bond, someone who's kind of a globetrotting, uh, secret agent who doesn't have time to be, you know, going to gyms and, and kind of keeping a regular workout regimen. So he's doing a lot of body weight stuff, you know, pushups and running upstairs and that sort of stuff. And, and, uh, so Sean kind of put together this, this great ebook called be more bond. And that was, um, what he had talked about with, uh, with David on the bond experience. So I just recommend if you're anything of a James Bond fan or just, you know, what I like about it, I guess, is this is a guy who takes his passion, um, and really explores it and kind of commits to it. And I think, you know, those of us that are into, you know, whether it's a watch collecting or cars or whatever it may be, um, I think we can appreciate if you, if you see somebody in a different sphere doing the same thing. And I think, uh, what David's doing is really cool. So, uh, give him a follow and be sure to check out that episode of, of Sean Lurwell talking to David as well. I thought, uh, it'll make a nice companion to, to our chat with him today. |
| James Stacey | Yeah, very cool. And, uh, Looks like a solid YouTube presence as well, which is which which is a good dovetail into mine. Minus the newest season. I'm not sure if it's season two or I think technically it's season three, but it's the it's the first time where they've done new vehicles for one of my favorite channels. Donut Media has a series called High Low, all one word H I L O W. And when they started the series a couple of years ago, they did two different Nissan 350Zs. Yeah. And basically one team gets the expensive parts that for upgrades and the other team, the low team gets the cheap parts for the upgrades and they go through the whole thing and explain if is more money, more better. Do you get more for your money? When you spend more money, is it easier to install? Does it actually run better? Does it create more power or give you better performance or that sort of thing? So it's that sort of concept. Uh, they've come back with this, um, second, again, I think this is technically the third season. It doesn't really matter, but they've come back with the new series. And this time there's, they're kind of, um, modifying and improving, uh, the same model of Toyota Tacoma, a pickup truck, uh, for all sorts of off-road use. So maybe one episode will be very expensive suspension versus the cheaper stuff or great tires versus cheaper tires. And they, they take them out to a course and compare where they might get stuck or, or how they kind of operate across various obstacles. Uh, I find it fascinating. It's super funny. Uh, the hosts are really silly. uh, really, really good at what they do. The production costs are awesome. And it's just kind of fun to see not only, you know, the show has this sort of natural constraint, the high, low part of it that feels a little bit like you're watching a great myth busters or, or, or some of the better elements from past top gear, uh, stuff where it's, it's very car ish, but also becomes about the people and, and kind of the goals that they're out for. And, uh, so far I'm really enjoying it. Some of their production has been delayed by all of the, um, the wildfires and such. And, uh, but other than that, uh, they're going along really well and, uh, the trucks look good. And I think that they, they make a great product. You know, they have, uh, as a, as a company, they make all sorts of stuff for the YouTube channel. They have a new show almost every day of the week. Um, and, uh, and high low is now, I believe a Sunday production, uh, and it comes out midday and I, you know, the last couple of Sundays, this has been the highlight. I wait all day until I see the notification on my phone. And then I, Grab my AirPods and I find myself 30 minutes, uh, to, to sit and watch this without an interruption. So huge fan of high, low, and it's fun to see them go from, uh, kind of accessible sports cars to still accessible sort of off-road pickup truck options. Uh, I think it's a good, good spread that way. |
| Jason Heaton | That's cool. I, I, I like what, what we're seeing these days with car coverage and car media. I mean, I think, you know, we we've talked in the past about, you know, road and track and, and, uh, Hagerty's and things like this. And I think what we're seeing is. Um, you know, this notion of, of, okay, in the real world, not all of us are out buying new cars all the time. So we don't just need to see reviews of, of the latest cars that are often inaccessible. Um, so I, I like to see something like this where, you know, they're, they're saying, okay, if you want to modify your Toyota pickup, or you want to do a little overlanding or off-roading, like, you know, realistically, what can you do? And is it better to spend more or less? And, um, I don't know, just, just being creative with, with car coverage. I think we see a little bit of that with, with watch coverage as well. I used to do a series on gear patrol, like want this, get this, where it was like, okay, you can buy that Breitling emergency or you can buy like a Garmin inReach, you know, SOS device. And, and one of those cheaper analog digital watches or something. I think it's, I like that concept of like, you want to spend more, you can get this, or if you want to spend less, you get this. And what are the compromises? That's a, that's a nice concept. |
| James Stacey | Yeah. And the nice thing about donut that you don't necessarily get with, um, with everybody else in the, you know, that you don't necessarily get with everyone else in the YouTube car spaces. There's all, there's like no gatekeeping. There's no dumb questions. There's no, like you should have this taste or that taste. They just love cars. Yeah. Yeah. And, and you know, their, their, uh, Instagram likes to rip on Jeep owners, which I find to be very funny. They love the Pontiac 6,000. Uh, there's a lot of memes, there's a lot of silliness and, and all of it just kind of comes together about appreciating cars, not about saying like, well, you're part of that team. Cause you have that car, you're part of that kind of that circle is not our circle. Like it's a very egalitarian. If you like cars, you can probably find a home with some of their media. And a lot of it's very, very good at taking somebody from one level of understanding to the next level, whether it's, you know, explaining how a piece of suspension works, or you could look at like, bumper to bumper that Jeremiah Burton does, which is a show, which is more of a science-based show. And it explains like sometimes very complicated elements of why things are the way they are with cars or, or what the engineering background is for some things. And I learned something every week from this channel. I think they do great work and they do it with a big grin on their face and, and, and you really feel like they're enjoying the process, which I like a lot. |
| Unknown | So good one. |
| James Stacey | Well, as always, thank you so much for listening. You can subscribe to The Show Notes via notes.thegrenado.com or check the feed for more details and links. You can also follow us on Instagram at Jason Heaton and at J.E. Stacey, and you can follow the show at The Grey Nado. If you have any questions for us, please write thegrenado at gmail.com and keep sending in those voice memos for a future Q&A. If you're enjoying the show, please subscribe and review wherever you find your podcasts. And let's remember music throughout is siesta by Jazzer via the free music archive. |
| Jason Heaton | And we leave you with this quote which was recommended by Sean Lerwill and is engraved on his Leatherman and often attributed to Socrates, know thyself. |