The Grey NATO - 145 - Catch Up Q And A!
Published on Thu, 20 May 2021 06:00:40 -0400
Synopsis
This episode is a Q&A session where Jason Heaton and James Stacey answer questions from listeners about various topics related to watches, gear, and hypothetical scenarios. They discuss vintage Doxa chronographs, the concept of patina on watches, dive watches with Arabic numerals, their thoughts on the Panerai brand, recommendations for a pilot's watch and a watch as a military graduation gift, backpack recommendations, and how the watch industry might respond if the world switched to metric time.
Links
Transcript
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| James Stacey | Hello and welcome to another episode of The Grey Nado, a loose discussion of travel, diving, driving gear, and most certainly watches. This is episode 145 and I'm joined as ever by my illustrious co-host and celebrated author, Jason Heaton. How are you doing, Jason? |
| Jason Heaton | Oh, I'm doing great. Yeah, it feels like summer here. I'm wearing shorts and sandals sitting at my desk, so things are feeling real here. It feels like we're looking up, we're looking to warmer days. How are you? |
| James Stacey | Oh, yeah. I too am in shorts. I'm well hydrated. Yeah. Yeah. I'm feeling summery. Let's get into some questions. This is a full Q&A episode, so none of the chitchat, none of the risk checks, none of the final notes. You'll have to get that on the next episode, which is where we will also be starting our weekly episodes. |
| Unknown | Yeah. |
| James Stacey | That's very early June. The second or the third, I think, is our next publish date. And then from there, You'll get us pretty much every Thursday unless something goes horribly awry. Jason, what do you say we jump into this first one from Justin? |
| Justin | Yeah, let's do that. Hi, Jason and James. Justin here from Park City, Utah. My question is, after listening to Washed Discomforts, I've become very intrigued in regards to purchasing a chronograph. As huge Doxa lovers, I was curious to see what your thoughts are on their vintage chronographs from the late 40s and early 50s, particularly the ones with the Valjoux movements. I'm curious to see what your thoughts are and feedback. Thank you very much. Cheers. |
| Jason Heaton | Oh, that's a good question, Justin. Um, you know, Doxa as, as, as we know, um, is, is much better known these days, especially for its dive watches. Um, but back in the day, I mean, they made automotive watches and some really beautiful chronographs. Um, I haven't handled any personally, James, I don't know if you have any experience, but they sure look nice. |
| James Stacey | Yeah. I, you know, I've, I've come across a couple of the kind of art deco thirties They kind of have a universal Geneve feel to them. I don't know that they're necessarily made at the same level of a UG. Some of UG stuff is really impressive. I haven't come across any of the chronographs in person. I do own a relatively inexpensive 40s chronograph in that chronograph Swiss, which I bought off Mr. Lambden. And yeah, I would say it's going to be really hard to go wrong with a watch made at that point. Like your expectations will be that it's an 80-year-old watch, so it's probably not going to let you down in any considerable way. And they have such a defined look. And some of those docks that have the really beautiful numerals and the long, thin hands, that's such a nice, like even kind of pre-mid-century vibe that's so different than what is typically seen as the core of kind of the watch enthusiast aesthetic these days. |
| Unknown | Yeah. |
| James Stacey | Uh, so you definitely have my vote. I, I, you know, like Jason, like he said, the, there is this kind of two DOCSIS. Right. There's the DOCSIS that make the sub and there's the DOCSIS that made everything else. Yeah. And, and one is much more generic, but that doesn't make it less special. Chronograph Swiss, generic to a fault almost to the, that's the point. Right. Right. And, and, and with DOCSIS, you know, I, I think that what makes, while, while you're not getting say a sub 300, you are getting a beautiful watch made in a certain era. And I think that the rest will be largely well-known. Make sure you do the understanding of what movements might be available. You know, if it's a Landron versus an Excelsior Park versus a Valjoux 72 or whatever, like make sure you know what you're getting into from a movement standpoint, because that's really where I think you'd probably be the only spot where you could run into some real sort of servicing trouble. If you bought one with, with maybe the least popular movement, it could just end up being quite a bit more expensive on the, on the long tail. Uh, but other than that, no, I, I think, uh, I think those old DOCSIS are, are rad. And, and I think they're undervalued because people kind of expect a certain thing from DOCSIS and don't realize that, you know, pre-1967, the company was, was very much making a more general impression of a watch. |
| Jason Heaton | And how cool would it be to have, you know, like a, a DOCSIS sub, you know, whether vintage or one of the new ones, Dear James and Jason, I'd like to ask you to imagine yourself in the distant but hopefully near future when you're back on the road traveling again. |
| Unknown | Imagine that you find yourself in a nice little spot in Europe, maybe the British Isles, or even somewhere in Asia, in a narrow section of Tokyo. And on your walk of discovery, you come across an independent shop that's called Watches with Charm. When you go in, what are the watches that you see that have charm? And what does charm mean for you? And then perhaps there's a watch that catches your eye. It's a secondhand shop with pre-owned watches, vintage maybe, maybe not so vintage, but what would be the conditions in which you would consider buying one of them from this new shop and owner that you've not known before? Love to hear your answers. Thanks so much. It's Jonathan from Germany. |
| Jason Heaton | Well, that's a, that's definitely a unique question. Um, and I like it. I like these hypothetical hypothetical questions. Um, To me, the first thing that comes to mind is, is this would be the storefront, the physical storefront of what Jordan's doing at RetroWatchGuy. Oh yeah. I think for, for me, you know, when you talk about charm as it, as it pertains to watches, I always think my mind immediately goes to something quirky, less known, maybe, you know, a lot of the big brands tend to be so, you know, we, we know them, their archetypes, their, their black dials, white hands, the markers on a Rolex, um, whatever. Um, and I, I, I'm really drawn to watches that use color in an interesting way or have a unique complication. You know, James, your, uh, men stop, uh, parking, parking meter timer thing. Um, interesting case shapes like you'd get from some of the old, you know, aqua dives or some of the old SACOs with those UFO cases, regatta timers, asymmetric layout, chronographs, big eye chronographs, things that, um, are just left of center a little bit when it comes to design or function. Um, that that's to me what I see a shop like that full of. And I think, you know, as I mentioned, retro watch guys, a good kind of online manifestation of that. But it'd be really cool to stumble upon a shop that just specialized in that stuff. |
| James Stacey | Yeah. Jason, I don't disagree with that assessment of, of charm. I would add that it's, it's kind of like when you take general appeal, but it somehow has that little twist where it feels personal to you. |
| Unknown | Mm. |
| James Stacey | If you imagine a charming person, maybe they're normally affable and they have this nice kind of strong, characterful personality, but they very quickly make a connection with whom they're speaking with. And that's, I think, where the charm is. It's that bond. It's that kind of connection where you pick a watch up or maybe turn the key on the car that you love or whatever it is, and you feel that connection. I think in my mind, that's what charm is. And then as far as like, would I buy? Of course. Yeah. If I found it charming, I can afford it. Yeah. That's, that's largely the, that's largely the general scope of this obsession. Yeah. Yeah. Right. So, yeah. But it sounds like a good, a good store for sure. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. I like, I like your analogy to people. And when you were saying that, it made me think, you know, if you go to like a party, big event where there's a lot of people and there's one person, man, woman, whatever, who, you get into a conversation with and that person makes you feel like you're the only person at the party and they're really interested in what you have to say. They're, they're really interesting in what they say. And you come away from it feeling like that. I really had a connection with that person. And then suddenly you realize that's just the way the person is. They're like that with everybody, you know? Um, in a way you can think about that with a watch. It's like this watch feels like me. It feels like it connects with me and whether that's the Synchron military or whatever it is, a charming watch. And then you realize, boy, a lot of people like it for that same reason. I guess that that's a good, kind of definition of it. So yeah, let's move on to a question from Nicholas. |
| Nicholas | Hey guys, this is Nicholas from Washington DC and I have two quick questions. The first is what are your thoughts on patina? I see a lot of watches online that are described as having a gorgeous patina when in reality I think it's a sign of water damage or mold or just previous poor care. And I'm curious what your thoughts are on what counts as genuine healthy patina versus just dirt and grime. And then the second question I have is simply, do you have any recommendations for dive watches that have numerals, Arabic numerals on them instead of just indices? Thanks and keep up the good work. |
| James Stacey | Thanks for that question, Nicholas. That's an interesting one. And it's one where you kind of have to consider like what is patina? And I think there is a bit of a wiggle room where Everyone kind of has an idea of what patina they like or don't like. And that could be not even just on watches, that could be on maybe even artwork, cars, you know, all the normal stuff that people buy and then keep for a while. And in my mind, any patina that was earned over the course of the watch's life can be additive to its appeal. |
| Unknown | Does that make sense? |
| James Stacey | I don't necessarily love where you get a bleached out dial or one that does look like water damage or whatever. But if that is simply an aesthetic remnant of something that that watch went through, that could really speak to me if it's the right watch. I may not buy somebody else's heavily patinated, water damaged, whatever, but if that happened to one of mine and I was still able to salvage the movement and make sure that it wasn't insanely rusty or constantly kind of humid inside the case or whatever, I think that could be a real plus. And I think that's where a lot of the love of patina come from. Yeah. The other side that I'd add at the very cream of the crop of collectors, which Jason, you and I aren't, but at the very cream of the crop, whether it's watches, cars, those are kind of the things that I would know at a collector level that patina suggests it's unrestored and unrestored is everything right now. Obviously it's, it's, it's harder to deal with, with watches because everyone says that it's never been polished. everybody says that this is the way it is or that's the way it is or whatever. And it's a little bit more difficult, but like with cars and original, a car that's original, even though there's a certain type of buyer that might buy it and have it resprayed, you know, that's painted again, there, there's a, there is a specific class of, of really deep kind of enthusiasts that, that rely on the unrestored. whether it be of any age, and it could be for almost any product. I think at some point it comes down to whether or not the level of patina affects how you interface with the product itself. With a watch, I don't think it does usually. Hopefully you wouldn't have so much patina that the watch doesn't run correctly. It should be more of an aesthetic thing. At that point, it's absolutely subjective. If you see a grayed out bezel as beautiful, awesome. If you see a tropical dial, as beautiful. That's awesome too. I don't, I don't really like brown as a, as a color in many ways. Definitely not when it comes to watch dials. So the, the, whereas I might enjoy say a, a, a spider dial or, you know, one that's had a lot of UV damage and it's kind of all grayed out and lost a bunch of its contrast. I'm really not on board for the, the tropical dial, despite the fact that that's a very popular thing. So I think you can go through several layers of this, but you eventually just get to like, What's your aesthetic preference? |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah, I would agree. And I also think for me, I don't seek out patina in a vintage watch. I certainly do like the way certain things look. I happen to like kind of yellowed aged lume on watches. And I've long said that, you know, that color choice on new watches is perfectly fine with me because I think it looks nice. I mean, just plain and simple, whether it's trying to imitate something or not. I wouldn't seek out patina necessarily on an old watch. And I do think that my initial sense when I see a watch that's heavily patinated, whether, you know, we often talk about just discoloration or fading, but I think that also means, you know, heavy scratching, maybe a dent, you know, whatever on a watch. I almost have more admiration for the person who owned that watch and wore that watch than I do for the watch itself, because to me, it inspires the idea that you know, this person wore this watch properly and they, they used it for stuff, which I think is the most admirable quality of a watch is that it, it was actually used. And I think that that's what speaks to me. Um, and it almost, it almost inspires me to make my own patina, which I think is, I guess, more important, um, in some respects, just in the way that I view watches. So, um, but I would say, you know, unless it's like water damaged and, and, you know, has affected the actual, movement or the functioning of the watch. Um, you know, if, if you like the way it looks and that's important to you, then, then go for it. Uh, yeah. To the second part of your question, you are asking about dive watches with Arabic numerals on the dial. Um, I have one good one. I have, I have one good suggestion that I've been eyeing lately. Actually, uh, let's, let's say two options, one expensive one and one not that look very similar. And that is the glass Huta original, uh, CQ. I think they call it the CQ. So it's their recent, dive watch of the past couple years that I've seen come out. It's really a beautiful watch. It's a brand that isn't really known for its dive watches. It's actually modeled after one from the old East German ownership of that company, GUB, that used to make a dive watch that looked like this. But it has these beautiful Arabic numerals. I think it's a really, going back to Jonathan's question, a charming watch. I think it's a really neat looking watch. And if you don't want to pony up for that, there's a small brand called Wolbrook that makes a you know, sub $1,000. I think it's even sub $500 watch that looks somewhat similar with those big Arabic numerals on the dial. So I know there are others out there. I don't know if James, you have any other suggestions. |
| James Stacey | I could throw a few out there. Uh, Fortis and Zen, I believe make a dive watches with Arabic numerals. Uh, you can buy a marathon SAR with Arabic numerals. You can buy the Prometheus sailfish. Yeah. Uh, let's see Longines hydro conquest. is also, or at least previously was available, maybe not in the brand new aesthetic. Panerai. Pardon me? Panerai. The other one that always stands out to me is, you know, think, think back 10 years in Breitling. Yes. Super ocean steelfish. Yeah. Sorry. You know what? Maybe the steelfish had like mixed markers, but one of them had a, um, had a really nice Arabic dial. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. I remember that. Yeah. |
| James Stacey | Let's see. So that would have been, |
| Jason Heaton | That was a fairly recent Superocean, I think. |
| James Stacey | Yeah. You know, it was the one that still had the rider tabs. Yeah. So it's before the Superocean Heritage. |
| Jason Heaton | Super Avenger, maybe. |
| James Stacey | Yeah, it might've been one of those, but there's definitely, well, I mean, let's be clear that they make, Breitling makes a bunch of watches that have Arabic numerals, so they definitely be worth checking out. And then the last one is the Glycine Combat Diver. Yep. That's a solid watch that's under a grand. Yeah. Really nice size. Build quality's fine. Not exemplary, even at that price point, but not bad to be clear. Not bad. But glycine's another great option. Luminox, of course. Your other option, depending on what you like and maybe what you already have around your home, have a Seiko modded by someone online. Yeah, right. If you already have a Seiko that's sitting around that you're just not getting a lot of wear out of, just dig up a dial that you like and or ask for some help from a modder and go that route. But yeah, I think there's probably... Does anything else jump to mind? I mean, the 12-6-9, like on an Orient Mako, that's not quite a full marker set, so I'm not sure. But yeah, I would say a Breitling or the Glycenes or something like that for sure. Yeah. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. Good question. Good ones, yeah. Thanks, Nicholas. Next one is up from Aaron about CWC. |
| Aaron | Hey, James and Jason. This is Aaron down in Houston. Big fan of the show and all your work. I'm wondering, the next watch I'd like to add to my collection is a CWC Royal Navy Diver. My impulse is to buy the automatic version, but I'm wondering if the quartz version isn't actually the more charming version of that watch, and or maybe to borrow an automotive term, period, correct. I'd love to have your thoughts as to the relative merits of the two watches. Thanks. |
| Jason Heaton | Thanks. Thanks, Aaron. This is a way the word charm is coming up a lot in this episode already, isn't it? I've never used that word in conjunction with CWC, but, you know, hey, charm is very subjective. I do think that quartz feels like the best form of a CWC diver. I think as a watch that was very function first and designed from the ground up to be used to a military specification, the fact that they went from automatic in the first two years of creation of that specific dive watch to quartz, and that's what it's kind of remained, leads me to believe that it's kind of the best form that that dive watch comes in. And I've gone on record many times as to being a big fan of quartz watches, and I think CWC Quartz Diver is definitely right up there with one of my favorites. I own two, and I keep one in my dop kit for travel as kind of a backup go-to watch, and it's just an all-around great bash around, not worry, you know, there's nothing to worry about with this watch. And I don't know, the fact that it says Quartz in big uppercase letters across the dial is something to be proud of, I think, in the case of this watch. I think they're great. I think you should go for the Quartz. I think automatic is not something that, that CWC is, um, you know, it's probably not really in their wheelhouse. They're not necessarily a watchmaker. They're a, uh, you know, a government contractor that, that happened to make, uh, uh, wristwatches, uh, in this case. And I think quartz is kind of the state of the art in that respect. So that's, that's my feeling, Aaron, James, any opinions or yeah. |
| James Stacey | Look, I think if you're, if you're interested in the courts by the courts, I love courts. It doesn't bother me one bit. I usually like my courts to have another feature. analog digital or an alarm or chronograph or whatever. But I think this watch makes sense as a quartz. It's like, enjoy it, Aaron. Let it be red. Yeah. Thank you for the question. Next up, we got one from Vincent. |
| Vincent | Hi, Vincent Jason. Vincent talking from France. During one of my last muddy and rainy run wearing my Garmin Fenix 6S. Thank you, James, by the way, for the advice. It's a great watch. I was listening to your podcast and I had an idea. Why not creating a TGN limited series watch? Something rugged, cheap, kind of a XAX or a ZIN or even a G-Shock on a gray lento, of course, but also it could be without any bracelet. I'd like to hear your thoughts on this idea. I also would like to take the chance to share with you another great podcast that I discovered and I'm sure that can feed the adventure side of your listeners. It's called the Delby Diaries and it's held by Patagonia. Take care and keep on the great show. |
| James Stacey | Bye. Hey Vincent, thanks very much for your question and congrats on getting out for a run. I'm glad you're liking the Garmin Success. I wear mine a lot. It's definitely a solid option for that sort of work and great in the muddy rainy days. As far as the TGN LE, man, You know, I don't dislike the idea, but that's a needle that we would really have to thread. You know, Jason and I are sometimes, um, a little bit paralyzed by our want to just do things the way that we would want them to be done if we were on the audience side. And I think when you, when you look at our, you know, several year push towards something like t-shirts, uh, it might be tough to get a whole watch off the ground. Uh, we're also not salesmen at all. So the idea of putting out a huge amount of capital to have these watches made to then become watch salesmen rather than just kind of people who speak about the love of watches. I don't know, Jason, that doesn't sound super appealing. I'm not against the idea. This is coming off as being kind of negative. And it's not so much that it's negative as much as I would want it to be like kind of perfect if we went down that route. And for our current kind of two-man operation, I think that'd be a pretty big lift. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. And I think in a way it sort of sells short the effort and I guess expertise or commitment and passion that a lot of the people that do own some of these small brands have. And I guess we would really have to lean on people like that at whichever brand we would choose to collaborate with. I can't imagine us creating a watch from scratch. That's just such a funny thought to think that we could, you know, sort of invent something, but I, you know, look, Vincent, I won't lie. We've, we've talked about it. A lot, you know, over the past five years, we've talked about, uh, should we do a TGN watch at some point we've kicked around different brand ideas. Um, but, uh, you know, the fact that it doesn't materialize either means we're like James said, we're paralyzed or we're just, uh, it's, it's not, uh, hasn't gelled yet. So, um, but, but standby, uh, you know, never say never. Um, we're, we're, we've got some ideas in mind for, for stuff coming up here. |
| James Stacey | A watch isn't one of them, but who knows long-term long-term I'd be, I'd be, uh, I'd be interested for sure. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. And thanks for the Dirtbag Diaries recommendation. That's a, that's a great podcast. I've listened to a few of those. |
| James Stacey | Yeah, it is good. |
| Jason Heaton | Good call. All right. Onto Ian talking about Panerai. |
| Ian | Hey, Jason and James. Ian from Connecticut here. Longtime subscriber. Thanks for all the awesome content the last five years. I wanted to ask you both about Panerai. It's a brand you've touched on a bit in the past. I believe when talking about in-house movements and here and there covering SIHH, About a year ago, I purchased a pre-owned PAM-111, which is the classic 44mm sandwich-style Luminor with the OP-11 caliber. That's the ETA-6497 pocket watch movement-based caliber, which feels pretty authentic to the brand historically. I bought this after trying on a friend's, and it's quickly become a favorite of mine. It's splitting daily wear right now with my Rolex Explorer II. I was wondering if you could speak a little more about your thoughts on the brand, if there are any models that have ever resonated with you personally, and what you think they could do to improve their standing and their appeal in the general watch enthusiast community outside, of course, of the Paneristi. It seems a big kind of drawback for many is their sizing and I accept that can be an issue, but that could be an issue for a lot of different models. at a lot of brands. So I was hoping you could add some thoughts beyond that. Again, love what you guys do and look forward to the next five years. TGN. Thanks. |
| Jason Heaton | Thanks for the question, Ian. You know, Panerai, I actually had a, I think it was a 112 many, many years ago, and I really enjoyed that watch. |
| James Stacey | I didn't know that. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. Yeah. |
| James Stacey | Is that also a 44, a 112? |
| Jason Heaton | Yes, a 44. And I can't remember, the difference was, I believe the 111 has the small seconds and the one 12 doesn't or vice versa. I can't remember which one I had, but I loved that era of Panerai. The James, I know you did too, but you know, there, there are a lot of Panerais I like, I love the aesthetic. I, when I see one on someone's wrist from a distance, I'm like, that is just such a cool watch. They wear well on straps. They're just neat watches. But I think, you know, brands can do what they want. They can do what they feel best. And the shareholders, you know, want to see, and the management feels is the best direction. But for me, I feel like in the past few years, Panerai has become less interesting to me personally, simply because they've kind of gotten out of that, my comfort zone, which is kind of those basic kind of old school steel tool watches or titanium in some cases. And, uh, they've really focused a lot on, on in-house movements and complications. And I think at the same time, their brand story is starting to get a little messy, messy because they, they're kind of acting like or not acting like they're becoming this kind of big shot watchmaker, whereas they're also leaning on this old, uh, sort of military tool watch heritage. And, um, you know, they can do what they want, like I said, but for me personally, it's, it's become less interesting. I like the kind of affordable steel chunky watch that looks great on a leather strap or rubber. Um, that, that was, those were the good ones for me. I do like, I do still like the submersibles and, and I have a very soft spot for that. Uh, I think it was the Pam three 72, that big, uh, poly crystal domed thing that, that was, I love that watch. I love that thing. So, um, James, uh, I suspect you concur a little bit here. |
| James Stacey | I do. Yeah. I, you know, I think, I think Panerai is an exciting brand. They were the first brand I ever wrote about back in 2008, uh, kind of one of my intro brands to the idea of like an expensive watch at the time. And this is at the time of Panerai was maybe changing hands for a few thousand dollars on time zone. And, I guess 2008 would have been kind of right around the first of their in-house movements. And it's an interesting thing because I think in some ways, no matter what, like as much as I might agree that I kind of like the Panerai from 10 years ago or even 13 years ago, I don't know that they could have done anything any different. They were simply the hottest thing among watch enthusiasts for a little while. |
| Unknown | Yeah. |
| James Stacey | And during that time, I think they made every, they stole every base that they could. |
| Unknown | Yeah. |
| James Stacey | They, you know, they became a major presence in the idea of like the aesthetics of a watch. Not everything had to look like a Rolex, um, at that moment. And, and, and the Luminor essentially, you know, spun up several other brands, uh, lots, a whole cottage industry of offering cheap versions or, or less expensive versions of the Luminor aesthetic. Right. And I think that's a great sign in terms of general health of your aesthetic and your general like brand DNA. But on the other side, and maybe more specific to today's context, both for myself and for Panerai, they've just gotten the in-house thing meant that they got quite a bit more expensive. Especially if you're talking about limited edition or those with additional functionality. You can really see the price point go up. But with that in mind, you know, there, there have been some that I really enjoyed. The 42 millimeter submersible is lovely. It really is. Yeah. Uh, but it's also an $11,000 watch. And at least within the confines of what I can see on the roadmap for me, I'm not spending 11 grand on a watch anytime. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe, maybe, arguably maybe never, maybe on the right used watch that I saw an upside to in the longterm or at least a safety. |
| Unknown | Mm. |
| James Stacey | But Panerais aren't a steel Rolex. You don't buy one and then have the option of selling it two minutes later for 30% more. They take a hit, right? Yeah. And so I think for me, it's the kind of thing where, yeah, a 111, a 112, the logos, the, I still, you know, I'll forever love the look of the black seal radium ears. Oh yeah. Gorgeous all black watch on a black leather strap. They were super rad. And then these new, the 42 millimeter subs, I'd be inclined to really like the Dewey if it had more than 30 meters of water resistance. I don't know what that's about. |
| Unknown | Yeah. |
| James Stacey | But I love the idea of a smaller, thinner Panerai that still has, you know, 200 meters water resistance. I'm not asking for a kilometer or anything. Uh, but yeah, I, I'm very, very much a fan of Panerai and I hope they continue to, to make exciting things. And I hope that they continue to realize that there are a crop of people who be very comfortable with say five, $6,000 watches. in their lineup. And I don't think that they've just removed all of that. But yeah, I think it's still pretty doable. As far as a brand goes, I think they still make a really great watch. And then if you are looking for kind of a higher end movement, that option is, of course, there as well. |
| Jason Heaton | Good. Thanks for the question, Ian. Let's chat with Russ here about a watch for his wife. |
| Russ | Hey, James and Jason. This is Russ down in Charlotte, North Carolina. Quick question for you. My wife just got a new job and is looking for a watch to commemorate the the new job And I'm trying to help her come up with some ideas So the requirements that I've kind of been able to come up with her are roughly a budget of a thousand bucks Would like vintage, but it doesn't have to be vintage Would like probably a smaller watch doesn't have to be ladies, but she has smaller wrists So anything too big probably won't look right in general. She wants something simple classic elegant and Gold, but not too blingy, a white dowel, something with some thin hands, small numbers or no numbers, but just line for the hour indicators, a round case with very subtle lugs, a thin bezel, and something ultimately that would look good on a tan leather strap. I've showed her a few pictures and her knowing nothing about watches, of course, picked out the Patek Calatrava as her favorite one, reference 3416, but obviously that's out of the price range. Would love anything else that might look like that or fit some of the requirements. Thanks again, guys. Love the show. |
| Jason Heaton | Wow, Russ. Good question. You really spelled out the criteria. You know, you had me like I've had all these suggestions in mind and then and then you just kind of dropped in there gold, but not blingy. And I was like, gold. Oh, my knowledge of old gold watches just is next to nothing. So I might defer to James, hoping you have a few choices. My first thoughts were just like a vintage Constellation or Seamaster, um, old, old IWC, um, just to, to dive in here and then I'll turn it over, but old IWC, um, you can get some kind of cool time only early seventies, late sixties stuff from IWC. That's pretty affordable. Um, and then I'd also say, you know, maybe an old, I'm not even sure if, you know, Grand Seiko or King Seiko back in the day, we're making many gold watches, but, uh, that might be something to look at too on the vintage side. James, I'm hoping you have something. |
| James Stacey | I do. Yeah. I've got, I have a couple of suggestions. So the Grand Seiko, King Seiko, Lord Marvel, those ones are all probably going to be more than a grand. Certainly the grand Seiko will, you're looking at like a 3180, that's several thousand dollars. Those are sweet watches and would fit a lot of the parameters here, but might be a little bit on the spendy side. I agree that the right Seamaster or Connie could be, could, could be had for a grand, not, not on the bracelet. Yeah. But you could probably, you could probably dig around, especially with gold being kind of still less popular than steel for most buyers. Right. The other one I would suggest, you know, a new watch is nice, especially for an everyday watch. The Hamilton Intramatic 38 in gold with the silver dial is lovely. |
| Jason Heaton | Good one. |
| James Stacey | Great one. Well under a thousand dollars, super thin. You can put any strap on it, but I think they sell it on a brown strap. So you could definitely go that route. And then the other one is, you know, dig around and see what's local for a quartz Cartier tank. I think a grand is probably pretty light. to get yourself into a tank, but maybe you could find a way to wrap it into a gift or something else and expand the budget a little ways. I don't know that you'd have to double the budget. You might. So maybe this is a very much an add on thought, but maybe, you know, looking at the watches that the Patek reference that your wife had said she enjoyed, maybe a tank is too far off. but I think they're just about the safest buy in a dress watch in the world right now. No brand is coming up as quickly as Cartier right now in the general mind space. Um, and especially as what I, what I think is, you know, the better part of a decade of just like feverish action when it comes to, uh, steel watches, there is, there is a little bit of a turn now towards flexible, casual, everyday capable gold tone watches. And I think that includes things not only like this Intramatic, but also stuff like the tank. So I think that'd be worth looking, see what may be available in your area. The last one is just to get an idea of what's out there. I keep this search saved in eBay, but I just search gold vintage watch and see what comes up. A lot of times it's like weird, you know, Spadell flex bracelets and stuff like that. But sometimes it's like cool twenties Walthams, thirties Walthams, you know, like some fun sort of art deco stuff. And looking at the, at the Patek reference, I don't know that Art Deco is really going to be the zone. But I do think like you could, you could definitely search around and see what you can find in sort of a minimalist, a minimalist option. Your other option, if you wanted something even less, I don't know, quote unquote dressy than the Hamilton would be a Youngins. The Max Bill, they make in a gold tone. That's not too big. And it has a little bit more of that, like no most modern entity, modernity to it. So I think that that's probably my recommendations for that. But my guess is there's probably a lot out there that are just kind of simple, round dress watches in gold. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. Good luck, Russ. Let us know what you come up with. I'd love to add that to the file it away for future reference. Yeah. |
| James Stacey | But do let us know. All right. Next up, we've got a couple of questions from a fellow named Augustine. |
| Augustine | Hi, guys. This is Augustine from Massachusetts. And my question is, now I've got a job where my commute is considerably longer, I find myself revisiting episodes of The Great NATO. Are there any episodes you two wish you could revisit, maybe rerecord, introduce new perspectives, or anything you just kind of like to go back and listen to now that you guys have been doing it for a while? Thanks, guys. Looking forward to hearing the answer. |
| James Stacey | All right, Augustine. Thanks, as always, for the question. And yeah, you know, I'm very not I don't ever look back at work I did previously. I find it very painful. Uh, and that even includes some episodes of TGN, but certainly a lot of the stuff I wrote about, uh, in my early days of watch writing, I don't, I have to pretend that doesn't exist. Otherwise it's a debilitating at a certain level. Um, when it comes to the, to the, the show, I would say the, the only thing that come to mind is, you know, scenarios where the audio quality could have been better. You know, I, I would love to rerecord. if I could go back and snap my fingers and re-record the Paul Skerfield interview. I think that he's so good. And he has such a lovely voice and the audio quality, you know, we did what we could with it. And I think I've probably apologized for it in the past. Sometimes that's how these things go. These super kind of very remote chats, but I would like the opportunity to do that. And it's the kind of thing where like it has affected the way that I approach chats moving forward. So I guess in some ways I got my wish, just not for that talk. But we'll have Paul on again at some point, no doubt. And we'll do it with a little bit better audio quality. But yeah, I think that's the only one that immediately jumps to mind. I guarantee that you don't have to go back very many episodes to find something that would make me cringe that I said or did. The noise that came out of my face that I don't love now. But that's fine. We're all growing. We're all maturing. We're all getting better at being humans and I don't mind knowing that every day is kind of a new chance at trying these things, but I'm not especially sentimental when it comes to the idea of like going back to work. In many ways, let's say you gave me the assignment of going back and finding, I would find that to be a very stressful and distasteful sort of experience, whether it was a TGN episode or otherwise. I like that with this living, when you click live, it's live. |
| Unknown | Yeah. Yeah. |
| James Stacey | And at that point, I get to stop thinking about it. I know another podcaster I listen to, his wife, he said that her family has a pillow with a quote on it that I think about, you know, with some frequency. And I'm sure I'm going to paraphrase it here, but, you know, fun is best enjoyed after. And there's something about like, part of all of it is there's a relief when you finally click publish or or when I'm done editing this episode and it goes into SoundCloud. And then I just know that at six o'clock on, on Thursday, it'll automatically go live and I'll start thinking about the next episode. Um, and I, I think I, there's something about that pace that I like. It is a little bit of like, you always have another chance to, to get it better, to do it right. Uh, and I, I wouldn't necessarily want to change any of the stuff behind me. What do you think? |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. I mean, funny, you should say that. I, I, I never listened to the old episodes. Um, I feel like, you know, we have this great conversation every couple of weeks and soon to be every week. And, uh, I kind of enjoy the doing of it. Um, and then it's funny my, you know, if I go to visit my, my parents and they're listening to it or Gashani listens to it in the other room and I hear it, I'm like, I don't want to listen to the whole episode. Like I know what we said and I'm proud of it. I'm happy with it. Um, I guess if I had to revisit old episodes or redo an episode, it wouldn't so much be a redo. It'd be almost an extension. Um, and most of those would be our interview episodes. I, I think specifically about, you know, chatting with NIMS and I'd love to do a second. I'd love to do that times two, you know, either revisit, um, not necessarily redo that one. I thought it was a fine conversation, but I'd love to like, it was come back around and ask him more questions. You know, a lot of those are just not long enough. Fabian Cousteau, Laurent Ballester, you know, some of these guys, uh, just, uh, you could talk for hours with them, but no, I'm, yeah, I'm pretty happy with our, Canon of 144 episodes to date. Yeah. Yeah. But interesting thought exercise. Uh, and then you've got a second question, Augustine, which we'll play right now. |
| Augustine | Hey guys, this is Augustine from Massachusetts. And, uh, my question is how do you guys feel about the British brand fair? I like a lot of their designs. They'll use a lot of cool colors. Um, but I don't know too much about them other than what I see kind of on Instagram. So look forward to hearing your thoughts on that. Thanks guys. |
| James Stacey | Alright, Augustine, another great question. Thanks for sending that in and also for being nice and brief in terms of the recording. So your questions about Farrah watches, I think we've talked about Farrah a fair bit on the show. Granted, you know, it's several hundred hours of audio, so maybe it's only fewer mentions than I'm imagining. My experience with the brand has been largely positive. Would you say the same, Jason? |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah, I mean, I've only handled I think one of their watches. I did have a few quality issues with it, which, you know, maybe it was a one-off, an early piece, but, uh, that was, you know, that was my experience. But I do think that it's a brand that to me seems more mature than their age would, would suggest. Right. I mean, everything from their website, their marketing, um, even their designs just feel, they just feel like they kind of came out of nowhere and shot to the top of kind of their space. |
| James Stacey | Yeah. I, you know, what, what stands out for me is that, I mean, maybe this is the point you were making is despite the fact that they are a pretty young brand, it's a very distinctive look. Like you kind of, you could kind of know it's a fair without it saying fair on the dial in some cases. In many ways, I get a little bit of that no most thing that we've joked about in the past where like, it's one of the best brands that I'll never own one of their watches. Right. Because how would you pick one from another? but it's You may think that you know what you're getting if you look at their GMT, but when you pick it up, the case is a bit different than you might've expected. The color is a bit different than what you'd get from another brand. You know, I had their 37 millimeter manual is what it's called, I guess. And it's such a weird case. Well, not in a bad way at all. Just weird. Yeah. It's very uncommon. It's like a itty bitty radium air. Huh? Huh. Um, and then it's all dial. Uh, they really tend to just kind of go, go their own way with these things, which, which I absolutely respect. Yeah. I think they have a really good lineup right now, but that world timer for sure stands out for me. Um, and then, you know, I've had a couple others. I had a, I had a chronograph a couple of years back in for review, which was quite lovely. Had a chocolate Brown dial, which I think I've made my, my, my thoughts on Brown, uh, stated recently, but that's the other plus is all the fairs. I don't, they don't typically do any of their watches in only one color way. Uh, and, and so when you actually click into one of the watches on their website, there's like a bunch of different colors and versions. And, uh, yeah, no, I think an exciting brand, good price point, nicely built, solid marketing, you know, typically really good photography. They use Amy Shore for a lot of their photography and she's very talented. I'm on the homepage for their world timer and we've got a defender. It feels like we should probably like this as much as we do. Right. Uh, But yeah, I like, I like inventive uses of color. I like inventive uses of, of, um, of loom, which they do really well. Um, you know, we're, we're a lot of loom or various elements of the dollar loom, especially in that world timer. Uh, that, that definitely stood out. Uh, so yeah, I'm, I'm a fan. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. Cool. Thanks for the questions, Augustine. We'll move on to, uh, to Bruce. |
| Bruce | Hey, James and Jason. Uh, Bruce here from Denver, Colorado. Huge fan. Uh, appreciate your thoughtful and, well-measured conversation that you always bring to the table. Really been enjoying going through all your old episodes since I found the podcast recently. Quick question, I have a new 3861 Omega Speedmaster Pro sandwich model and the 250 on the bezel has just like the tiniest defect and it only kind of shows up in certain light but it's almost as if the etching or painting or however that's done is kind of slightly off so it looks a little blurry almost. Anyway it's super minor and I'm not really sure I want to deal with sending it in even though it'd probably be covered being such a new watch but it makes me wonder how you two think through you know these small defects especially on you know pretty expensive time pieces and what's acceptable or not especially knowing that over time I'm probably going to beat up this bezel anyway and Um, you know, in general, you're going to beat up your watches a little bit if you actually wear them, which I'm a believer in. So just curious if you could talk a little bit about that and your general take of, you know, when it's worth being nitpicky. All right. Huge fan. Stay healthy and safe and look forward to more episodes. |
| Jason Heaton | All right, Bruce. Uh, thanks for the question. Um, interesting about your, uh, your Speedmaster, uh, you know, I guess I've got a few thoughts about small defects on watches. I do think that at, um, If you're buying a new watch and it's a higher end watch, which I would consider the new Speedmasters to be in that category. I think for sure that is sort of the point of those watches is the very small details. I think that's why when you go to these boutiques, these higher brands, there's a loop sitting on the table. When you're looking at the watch, you don't get that at, uh, you know, kind of lower price point, uh, watches. Um, personally, uh, you know, The watches that I tend to own or be interested in are either, you know, old and already beat up. I've got a few kind of vintage interesting stuff or inexpensive enough to not inspire, you know, looking really closely. I did have an experience with my Grand Seiko GMT that I bought in Japan that after a few months of owning it, it just wasn't keeping great time. You know, it's fairly out of spec, so I sent it in for regulation, but I can't say that I've ever looked closely for visual defects with a loop or cared much about, you know, a misaligned chapter ring or bezel or something like that. I know a lot of people do, and that's obviously your prerogative if you're paying good money for a watch. Um, I would say with your Speedmaster, boy, that's a subjective call and not having any sort of a, a photo to look at, um, to, to kind of see what you're talking about. I, I can't comment specifically, but, um, you know, it is, it's a higher end watch. I'm sure they would be happy to. to take care of it for you if you're willing to wait and give it back to them. What do you think, James? |
| James Stacey | Yeah, I think I would agree. I'm trying to put myself in Bruce's shoes here. If I spent that kind of money on a watch and that small imperfection became like the thorn that I couldn't unsee, every time I looked at the watch, that's what I saw. then yes, I would have to talk to Omega about that and get it sorted. And it would just be sort of an anxious fixation. If it was a less expensive watch or a used watch or something. The funny thing is, Jason, if I'm really honest, I bet you I have watches that have these sorts of imperfections. And I wouldn't notice unless I took a photo and then went to edit the photo. I think in my general visual existence is not that specific. I'm not that picky. And, and, and, and to be clear, Bruce, I don't mean picky as a bad thing. In fact, it's probably a really good trait in this line of interest. Yeah. Um, but for whatever it is, I'm much more, um, heart than I am mind when it comes to what I like. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. Yeah. And like I said, I mean, these are, this is a definitely a high end piece. And I think when one of the, it's, it's funny, you know, they're, they're very high end pieces that are, you know, everything is handmade on them and to, to see have been a slight, um, I don't know if you call it blemish, mistake, whatever, is almost a sign that it was made by hand. Um, and you know, there's the, the kind of the famous case of, you know, Japanese pottery, they might introduce a crack or, you know, something to kind of make it less perfect. But, um, with, with a high end watch that, um, is made at scale, um, like a Speedmaster that, you know, the bezel on these is probably, um, you know, made mechanically, um, in some fashion, I wouldn't want to see that. So, you know, if it's, if it's visible to the naked eye and it's bothering you by all means, uh, get that fixed while it's under warranty. |
| James Stacey | But, uh, yeah, if it's your, if it's your watch and you got it new and the rest of it, I I'm, I'm with Heaton. If it's, if it's under your skin at all, uh, yeah, deal with Omega. I'm sure, I'm sure there'll be lovely and not too difficult. And, and they also at least should, but I I'm, I'm quite confident that they would like you to have a watch that makes you very happy. |
| Unknown | Yeah. |
| James Stacey | And if that blemish is getting in the way, then yeah, get it sorted out. If not, then I say just wear it. If it's going to be your daily, then it's going to get scratched and then maybe it won't matter. Yeah. So, yeah. Good question, Bruce. Thanks very much for that. Another, another thought-provoking option here. Next up, we've got one about pilot's watches. |
| McKinley | Jason and James, hope you're doing well. This is McKinley from Seattle, Washington. I spent the last year or so throughout COVID spending much of my time studying and up in a cockpit training to become a pilot. I'd like to mark the occasion of finishing with a pilot's watch. I'm most excited for the freedom to go up to the San Juan Islands or over to Idaho, so enough water resistance to swim would be great. The most important characteristic, though, I would say is legibility, and secondly, would be having UTC time, since that's what we use for communicating flight planning and getting the weather. I'm leaning towards the IWC Big Pilot or the IWC Spitfire UTC, I've had the Tudor Black Bay GMT in the past and replaced it last year with the Rolex Pepsi on Jubilee. So let's remove those from the running. Let's say the budget's around $10,000. Looking forward to your feedback. |
| Jason Heaton | Well, McKinley, thanks for that and congrats on the, on the pilot's license. You know, sounds like the world is your oyster now. It'd be fun to, I can't imagine flying to Idaho or the San Juan islands and, you know, jumping in some water. That sounds awesome. Yeah, it does. IWC. So, you know, a very obvious pilot's watch choice. But as you mentioned, there kind of is only one choice in their lineup for anything with UTC. And that is the Spitfire. And if that's great, if that's the one you want, I think it's a lovely watch. And the old UTCs were really cool. So I like that option. The Big Pilot, of course, doesn't have that. And I don't often think of that as a watch I'd want to jump in water with, even though I'm sure it's got plenty of water resistance. In my mind, I go to Bremont. I mean, I think you know, well within your budget. Um, and you know, they make a number of UTC or GMT watches. Um, and since this isn't necessarily for, for travel use, uh, you know, their style of, of GMT setting would probably be fine to just set to, to your UTC time and run with it. Um, that new S 302 of course is great. The supermarine, but that's more of a diver. But, um, of course they've got the, the MB three, which I think is a great rugged, kind of modern pilots watch or their alt one ZT. I mean, they just have a number of like chronograph GMTs. Um, and, and again, you know, five, maybe six grand for something along those lines would, you'd have money to spare for your, for your fuel. James, what do you think? |
| James Stacey | Yeah. Yeah, I agree. I agree with Braymont. I, you know, I think, I think the funny thing is, is you got 10 grand to spend and you already own kind of one of the quintessential pilots watches. Yeah. Yeah. The Rolex GMT. Right. So you, in my mind, you just want as much variety from that watch as possible. And in that metric, I think that the idea of going with a bronze IWC with that, you know, kind of esoteric three number UTC display is a really smart way of adding a lot of variety into a two watch solution for your new passion. In many ways, look, I would say, don't spend the 10 grand just where your GMT master, but that of course, wasn't the question. Yeah. I think the MJ 271, which is this bronze UTC Spitfire is, is a, is a really sweet piece for sure. Um, and, and I honestly don't think you go wrong with any, uh, IWC, although under the confines of the, of wanting of prefer, preferably having a, uh, a UTC display, that would be your option. And then, yeah, I think Bremont's a great choice. I think there's probably some stuff in there from Breitling as well. It's just kind of at this point the classics. You've already got one of them. Yeah. And a killer watch. But man, what a fun time to be kind of embarking on something that adds freedom to your life, right? Oh, I know. I love that. Just go fly somewhere, you know. Obviously, you got to do some prep and the rest of it. But it's not exactly the same as jumping in the car and going for a road trip. Yeah, let's go out to the San Juan. Man, that sounds great. |
| Unknown | It does. It just sounds amazing. |
| James Stacey | I almost can't think about the watch. Yeah, right, right. Yeah, no, I think for sure. I think the IWC is a solid choice, but I would also say that Breitling and Bremont are worth a peek to see what they have as both brands make a handful of GMT equipped watches, which could do UTC duty, you know, pretty easily. Yeah. Solid question. And yeah, I hope you get clear, clear skies, good flights. Next up, we got Neil with a question about backpacks. A good one. |
| Neil | Hi, James and Jason. This is Neil from Champaign, Illinois. I want to know what you think is the best travel backpack suitcase that will fit under a seat or in an overhead compartment, one that has a shoulder strap and can convert to a backpack. I have looked at Redox. And Tom Bin want to know what your thoughts are. Thanks for all your good work. |
| Jason Heaton | Neil. Wow. Great. A gear question. I think up to now it's been all watch stuff. I'm happy to get the occasional gear question here. You know, I've got two options. One is one that I've had for many years and I actually forgot that I had it until your question came up and I used to use it all the time. Uh, it's from Patagonia and it was called the MLC or the, they used to be stood for the maximum legal carry on. And it was just this bomb proof, like small suitcase, like soft side, like really rugged. I don't know if it's actual Cordura, but, um, sort of that woven, um, fabric with a lot of compartments, a big clamshell opening, um, not terribly heavy. And then it had, you know, uh, backpack straps that you could zip away and hide and then use it with a, either, you know, a grip handle or, or a shoulder strap. And, and man, I use that bag a lot. I used to travel with that. for many, many years. Um, and then, uh, I eventually moved on to something from Topo designs, which was like their, they used to make a, well, they still do, but the mountain briefcase was my go-to that was kind of a similar design. It was actual Cordura, a little bit heavier, kind of a little bit more retro styled. Um, and now that comes in multiple sizes and kind of configurations. So you can kind of dial in, you know, what kind of, uh, capacity you need and whether it's an overnight or a three day trip or. whatever you're using it for. But those would be my two suggestions. James, how about you? |
| James Stacey | Yeah, I have two as well. And it would just depend on what you're carrying in them. There's two things I've spoken about at length before. So for general use, I would go with Toppo's Global Briefcase, the three-day. For $200, it's the best I've come across. It does the backpack strap thing well. It does a tote bag, sort of shoulder bag, really well. Pretty good pockets. Not great for security. You know, it's all soft. There's external pockets. That's the kind of thing you kind of want to keep on the front of your body if you're doing a subway or maybe between your feet. But I really like the way it's made. It's super useful in terms of its layout and the arrangement of pockets. And I've used it as a mix. Sometimes I'll use it more to carry gear and other times less gear and more clothes. And for a short trip, it really is a really nice solution. If you want to go more towards the gear side, you're carrying camera equipment or whatever, uh, then the Tenba DNA 15. I've had one for better part of a decade and it's directly next to me here. You almost can't tell it's not brand new. I mean, it's just an incredibly well-made product. Uh, it's not, not kind of the same aesthetic as a Toppo. This is a little bit more modern, maybe a little bit more in the space that, uh, like Peak Design inhabits these days. But a really nice bag that's not too expensive and the whole camera, the entire kind of camera cell element is a pullout part. So I've used it to carry clothes and toiletries and even shoes and stuff in the past. It's a pretty flexible solution. And I think with either one of these, you just kind of lean towards whichever one suits your style. The Tenba is only a shoulder bag. So you're carrying it like a briefcase or on your shoulder. Whereas you get the three-way carry with the Toppo where you have the backpack straps, the shoulder strap, and the top, the standard like briefcase handle. But those would be my two suggestions, both in and around 200 bucks. |
| Jason Heaton | Nice. Good question. Thanks for the, thanks for the gear question, Neil. Let's jump into Nick's question about the Tudor Pelagos. |
| Nick | Hey guys, Nick from Massachusetts. Really enjoy the show. Quick question for you on the Tudor Pelagos. I've been saving up for a while and I'm ready to pull the trigger, but I'm wondering if either of you think it might be worth waiting maybe a year or two to see what comes from Tudor. Maybe they offer this in a slightly smaller case size. Curious to know what your thoughts are on that. I really, really enjoy the recommendations you guys give out in every episode. They're fantastic and wish you guys well. Thanks. |
| James Stacey | Hey, Nick. Thanks so much for this question. This hits really, really, really close to home. I've had this conversation about a billion times with Jason in our Slack. The only reason I don't own a Pelagos is because I either want them to make a GMT version or a 58 version, which would be down to 39 millimeters. If they follow the format of the steel 58s. Uh, so I, I wish I had an answer for you because it would also be the answer that I want. Um, but I, so far I'm, I'm going to attempt to remain, uh, stoic in my position of patience. Uh, what, what, what do you think Jason? |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. I mean, a year or two, that's, that's seriously patient. I mean, if I had that money in hand and I loved the Pelagos, I'd, I'd be at the dealer right away. Just, just getting the current one. And I think you, you know, if you bought it now and, and they come out with a smaller one or, or, you know, James in your case, GMT, I mean, I'm sure you could you know, flip it later, you might lose some money, but you know, you've had a, you've had a good year or two of fun, fun times with that watch. You might really bond with it and might be happy with it after all. But, uh, man, if, if that criteria is really important to you, that the size, um, then, you know, I guess the correct answer is to, is to wait, but, uh, man, you know, patience is a good thing to have in this hobby. And it's something that I have learned the hard way and have lacked, uh, for, for many years, but, uh, yeah, good question. And, and, you know, predicting Tudor is like a black art. It's impossible to, it's impossible to predict Tudor or Rolex for that matter. |
| James Stacey | For sure. Yeah. Yeah. So maybe we'll see it someday or maybe we'll all just be rocking our three hand, uh, Pelagos is in, in, in short order. We'll see. Certainly if I, if I was in any need for another dive watch, uh, that I've wanted one of those for so long, that blue one really speaks to me. I know you, you liked the LHD. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. I'd get that in a minute. |
| James Stacey | Yeah. What a great color. Yeah. All right. Good question, uh, Nick and happy hunting and, or, or not hunting up to, up to you. Uh, but regardless, I know my answer maybe wasn't that helpful, but I do feel you. Uh, all right, next up, we got one from Dave. |
| David | Hi folks. This is David calling from an unusually sunny, albeit windy Edinburgh in Scotland. My question is pretty simple. What is your favorite watch? Not talking about brand and not talking about type of watch, like diver, pilot, et cetera, but specifically What is your favorite watch? And then an extra question, if I can, if you could have one watch for the rest of your life, whether it be from your current collection or with your current collection, what would it be? But with the only stipulation being that it is no more expensive than what you'd normally be happy spending on a watch. Looking forward to hearing your answers. Love the podcast. Hope you're both keeping well. Hope you're both staying safe and take care. |
| James Stacey | My apologies, David. Not Dave, David. That's a good question. Jason, where do you land? Favorite watch plus what one would you wear one for forever? Probably could even be the same watch, right? |
| Jason Heaton | You know, I'm so fickle. I, this is going to be, this is going to be a very unsatisfactory answer for David. Um, you know, and, and it sounds like a cop-out, but for me, my favorite watch is the one I'm wearing at the moment. I mean, I, I've often said that, you know, if I had to flee the house with one watch on my wrist, any of the ones in my collection would, would suit me fine for the rest of my life. Really. I, I, I like, most of the, you know, almost everything I own. And, you know, sentimentally, I guess my Rolex Submariner, the no date one I got for my 40th birthday would be the one that if I had to choose one for the rest of my life, it wouldn't be anything that I will buy. I don't think there's anything out there that I'm currently seeking or that would kind of fill a gap in my life. Um, I do wear my Aquastar Deepstar, like I've worn it almost every day for close to a year now. And it's, uh, I don't know. It's something just very eye pleasing. We, you know, we talked a lot earlier about charming watches and I think it's just kind of hits me just right for, for what I like to see in a watch. And I guess if I had to pick a favorite, if I was really pushed to make a decision, that would, that would probably be it, but I'm not, I'm not set to go out and spend anything. There's nothing I've seen that I feel like I need that watch or that will make me complete. Um, but, uh, you know, if, if push came to shove, uh, current favorite deep star longterm, kind of lifer watch. Uh, I'd have to stick with my, my, uh, no date sub James. What about you? |
| James Stacey | Yeah. You know, it's funny because I, I think, I think it's the same watch for me. And, and while I agree that like, if I lost this watch in a fire was stolen or whatever, it would be like, okay. But my favorite is definitely my Explorer too. |
| Unknown | Yeah. |
| James Stacey | That's a very easy choice. I probably haven't worn it more than three or four times this year, but just knowing that it's there kind of makes me like watches more. |
| Unknown | Yeah. |
| James Stacey | just in general. Yeah. Um, but even now I'm, I'm trying to visually imagine my watch case and the first watch I see in my mind is my Explorer. Yeah. Um, you know, it has some sentimental value to me. I took it up Baker and, and if I needed to, if I, if, if, if it was such that, that I needed to go to one watch forever, I think I'd be perfectly happy with that watch for sure. Yeah. That or, or, or it would be something like a Pelagos just buy it and be done with it. Yeah. Give me a blue Pelagos, I'll put it on the rubber and I'll just live like that. That's my life now. |
| Unknown | Cool. |
| James Stacey | Yeah. The watch is way tougher than I'm ever going to be. So we'll be fine. |
| Jason Heaton | Isn't that funny though? This, this does bring up an interesting point because I think we, we both have this favorite watch, but it's one that we're not wearing very much. And, and I feel the same about my Submariner. I like just knowing it's in my, my watch roll is, uh, is very pleasing to me. It makes me happy. Um, and it's kind of this gold standard piece, but yet I don't wear it very often. Um, I used to, but not so much anymore. So. that idea that you have a long-term kind of sentimental favorite and then you have your favorite. I thought you were going to say your, your Seiko SPB 143, which is, you know, a watch you wore for everything, you know, last year. Um, and again, I'm, I'm sure you feel the same, like either of those watches would work if you had to flee the house and like run and live in the wilderness, you know, either one of those on your wrist would probably make you very happy. |
| James Stacey | Yeah. Yeah. No, I agree. I mean, yeah, for me it would be, it would be, you know, the, the, the ones that are, that are actually important to me are the Explorer II, My Roald Dorf LE. Oh yeah. Uh, Halleo C4 and then the, uh, uh, you know, maybe one of the DOCSIS. Yeah. Um, and the, the, the AquaStar. Yeah. Yeah. Those are, those are, those are kind of the good ones. The Seiko, the Seiko I like because I think it's basically a perfect Seiko, but if I couldn't have that watch anymore, that would be fine. I wouldn't like, I have other dive watches, you know what I mean? |
| Unknown | Yeah. Right. |
| James Stacey | Right. And then, and then, you know, David, David was smart in, in asking, in steel, put it on the green rubber bracelet, I'm sold. I mean, it's just my absolute favorite in terms of modern watches. And I also know that I could buy that. It could be my one watch. It's got travel time. It's beautiful. It's the right size. I think it's very much in line with my general personal style, but that's a $30,000 or $40,000 watch, best case scenario. So nah, I don't think so. No, it's like someday, someday things go really well. TGN explodes. We do the, we do, uh, uh, we do like a limited edition with Patek. Yeah. Oh yeah. Um, yeah, there we go. And then, and yeah, so they do us a gray dial 5164 on a gray rubber. Oh man. Uh, job done. Right. And we'll, we'll all get them for wholesale and we'll move on with our lives. Happy, happy and doing the travel time thing. Yeah. No, fun question, David. Thank you very much for that. Let's jump to another one. We're going to wrap this one up pretty soon, but we're going to jump to another one from Gregory. |
| Gregory | Hey guys, this is Greg out of Wilmington, North Carolina. Longtime listener, appreciate what you do. My question is, I'm active duty military and I find that a relatively inexpensive digital watch and pocket knife are indispensable. My stepson is getting ready to go into the Air Force and he'll be graduating boot camp in the summer and I'd like to buy him a moderately priced digital watch with no smart functionality so he can wear it in classified spaces. and a pocket knife or tactical folder. And I was wondering if you were buying that as a graduation gift, what brand and model would you get for both? I appreciate you taking the time and thanks again for what you do. |
| Jason Heaton | Well, Greg, this is a great question. I love your idea as a kind of a two-part gift for your son. And I'm going to, you know, James, this feels really in your wheelhouse. So I'm going to take my first stab at it and I'm going to be a little bit different than I think most people would say. I mean, I think G-Shock is probably the right call. I think most people, um, looking for a watch for someone serving in the military would go G-Shock for a digital. Um, but given who I am and kind of my usual sort of bent, I'm going to say a Seiko Arnie of some sort or another. And I realized, I realized this isn't a digital watch. I realized it has a digital component to it. Um, But I think you get some of the digital capabilities. You get an alarm, you get a chronograph, you get a second time zone. Um, but then you get this, it's just a cooler watch because it has an analog component and it has a bezel, which can be very useful. Um, and I think these watches are pretty well established as indestructible. I mean, it's a Seiko, it's solar, so there's no battery to fiddle with. You put it on a NATO or, or just keep it on the existing rubber. And, and you know, this thing, I think it would just look so cool beat up. I think it would, serve its wear really well. It's an interesting watch. So I'm going to go with a Seiko Arnie. And I have to admit, I'm having a bit of a resurgent love affair with mine. So that might be coloring my thinking. But I've been wearing mine a lot lately. And I've just fallen in love with it again. Yeah, and as far as a knife goes, you know, I wouldn't call myself a knife connoisseur, although I own quite a few. And the one that I find myself using the most is one that James, you gave me, and this is the 501 squire from Buck. And I think you called it a grandpa knife, which is kind of a good description. It's sort of this retro looking, you know, nice, you know, wooden, uh, inlay on it. Um, super sharp. Well, I love it because it's like, it's quick to deploy. It's like sits nicely. My pocket flips out locks, uh, cuts just about anything. Um, but I think for someone, In the military comes someone younger, I think, you know, wait a few years to give him one of these buck knives. Um, I, when I think about how I like use a knife, like when I'm kind of out doing rough and tumble stuff, you know, whether it's in the garden or hiking, you know, I want to cut an apple or cut some paracord or whatever it is. There's one knife that I've had that I don't have anymore. I gave it away as a gift. Um, it's the Victorinox Swiss Army Hunter Pro Allox. And it, what I like about it is it's big, it fits in the hand, it's got a good grip, it's got a little clip to kind of slip on your pocket or a lanyard. Um, and it's just, it just does the job. It's like, it feels, you know, when you think about how you use a knife or how someone's going to use a knife, they're often just using it to rip open a box or cut a rope or, you know, I don't even trim a whittle, a branch or something like that. Like something big, that's easy to open and doesn't have any gadgets is like, that's, that's what I think of when a knife. And so I think, um, like I said, these might be a little bit, off kind of the usual or predictable recommendations. But I think Seiko Arnie, Victorinox Hunter Pro Allox, I think those would be two good choices for someone that age embarking on a military career. So congrats to your son. Thanks for your service. And James, I'm going to turn it over to you and see what you have to say. |
| James Stacey | Yeah, I have a couple ideas. Gregory, this is a good question and a sweet gift. And you'd mentioned not wanting smart features on the watch. So I would say, you know, take a look at the Garmin Instinct, especially the versions that are kind of designed to disable all of that for military reasons. That might be worth checking out. If that's still not really your zone, then I would recommend like a Casio G-Shock 9400, which is the Rangeman or a Protrek. Both are great options. You can get both in fully digital screens. Really usable watch that was my go-to kind of hiking, camping rough country sort of watch was a 9400, the Rangeman, for many, many years in Vancouver before I got into GPS kind of connected watches. So that's what I would suggest from there. The other option, depending on your budget, would be like go the same road as Jason and go with like a used aerospace, a Breitling aerospace. That's a super fun watch that has some digital functions to it. And also I think has a certain kind of specific military feel. Yeah. to the way it's executed, and I like that it's small and thin, which the G-Shocks I recommended really aren't. But I know those G-Shocks are crazy popular in the theater of war these days, so I can certainly understand why that might be the route you'd want to go. As for the knife, my day-to-day carry these days is a Finch Cimarron in dark green. It's a $90 flipper, nice metal, very straightforward But very just like aesthetically, I think it's beautiful. It's the right size. It's really smooth and easy to use. But to be honest, what I would recommend if I was going into the service and knew that I needed a knife as a tool, I would buy Benchmade. No question. You basically pick one to your size and your price. But if you need something a little bit bigger, avoid the ones that say Mini in the name. I carried a Mini Griptilian 556S, I think was the model for several years. I actually just lost it to the TSA just shortly before I stopped traveling, which is going to happen. That's how it is. That's kind of their entry level. I think they start a little over $100 and then you can kind of go up. I mean, like Benchmade is one of my most favorite companies, regardless of the product they make. Their customer service is incredible. The level of quality in the product is incredible, whether you care for knives or not. They just make such a really strong, usable, kind of like real modern knife. And I highly recommend pretty much anything that suits your budget from them. It's also definitely worth checking local retailers for sales. This is something where like discounts are pretty common on knives, especially knives that aren't custom made or from, you know, Chris Reeves or something like that. And with a large scale knife brand like Benchmade, just keep your eye out for a sale or a discount at a local shop. Go with something like a Rangeman or maybe the Instinct with the ability to deactivate some of the connected features. And then as far as a knife, scroll around on Benchmade. I really love the mini grip and the mini bug out, but if I was going to be using the knife a lot, like daily, maybe even many, many times a day, I might want something a good inch or maybe two inches bigger than what you'd find in a, in a mini grip. Great question though. Thank you very much for that, Gregory. All right, let's do one more. Sure. Yep. Kyle. |
| Jason Heaton | Super interesting question from Kyle. |
| Kyle | Yeah. Hey James and Jason, Kyle here from Kitchener, Ontario. Thanks for all your great content over the last year or so that I've been listening to you. I've got a hypothetical question for you. In the past, metric time has been proposed a few different times. This would obviously use a base 10 system instead of the base 60 system we're all used to. My question is what do you think would happen to the watch industry if the world instantaneously switched to metric time and how would the industry respond? Something silly that crossed my mind was if watches would still show 1010 in photos because of the tradition or if companies would keep the hands in the same aesthetically pleasing arrangement. Looking forward to your answers. Thanks again. |
| Jason Heaton | Bye. Thanks for the, uh, that question, Kyle. You know, I have no idea, frankly, James, I don't know. I don't even know how metric time works. |
| James Stacey | Um, I guess I should have, uh, I should have done my homework and looked this up, but, uh, um, I assume, I assume it's simply the ideas, you know, you're now into tens and hundreds, right. Instead of, instead of sixties and 24 and the rest, it's, this is, uh, I have no clue what would happen. I mean, I guess if we, if we decided to entirely recalibrate the way we tell time, we would also change all our time zones. Yeah. Right. Right. So there'd be a pretty, pretty huge change to the way that we, we think about time in terms of capturing it. |
| Jason Heaton | I wonder if there are any watch brands that have, have done this as a complication that, that does both simultaneously or, you know, I, I don't know. I think, I feel like I've seen bezels or you know, alternate scales on watches for, |
| James Stacey | for metric time, but, um, I can't think of which watch that would be, but, uh, I didn't even know metric time was even, I'm not sure it's like practicable, like sit a real time. Right. Right. You know, it's kind of, it's a weird thing, but I guess in many ways there would be kind of a pre metric time in a post metric time. Yeah. |
| Unknown | Right. |
| James Stacey | Where people would still, but then, you know, how would you translate trying to wear an old watch when, when you couldn't tell someone what time it is or even refer to, the concept of personal time versus how it's measured otherwise. I guess it would, in many ways, it would almost render mechanical watches. It would end. |
| Unknown | Yeah. |
| James Stacey | It would end. Yeah. At least, at least short term. Right now the ETA movements aren't valuable anymore. Like, like all, all of the basic architecture doesn't work anymore. It's like all of a sudden, if you just said like, Oh, but all humans are now, instead of being between say four and eight feet tall, they're going to be between 12 and 16 feet tall. Yeah. Yeah. that's going to change houses, cars, planes, sidewalks, doorways, right? Like all, everything changes. I think, I think like changing the way that we run time, this is probably one of the reasons metric time didn't take off is that the change would be incredible. |
| Jason Heaton | It's too big. And I think, uh, you know, you're wondering how the watch industry would react. I think the watch industry would probably lobby hard enough to not even allow it to happen. You know, given. Yeah. |
| James Stacey | Switzerland wouldn't go to metric time. |
| Unknown | Right. Yeah. |
| James Stacey | No way. No way. Of all the things that one could change, you know, it's stressful for people to change what time zone their country is in. It's certainly more stressful for countries to change, you know, what side of the road they drive on. Yeah. And then maybe an order of magnitude above that, switching from one whole measurement system to another, but then changing the way that we do time, which is like one of the only things we've agreed upon as a people. Yeah. Right. We're all, we're all counting seconds, minutes, hours, days, months, the same way, give or take. I can't imagine this is a, it's like a Ted Chiang short story. No, I don't know. I don't, I don't have a good answer for this. |
| Jason Heaton | Well, and then the second part of his question about watch photography. I mean, again, now we're, we're well beyond the scope of, I think our knowledge even in this, but at least in this area we can comment. I think 1010 is more, and James, maybe you know better than me, but it's not so much having to do with the time of day at all. It's an aesthetic thing is in terms of what's is on the dial, you know, trying to expose as much of the logo, um, or, or whatever on the dial. So like 10, 10 isn't even good for necessarily a Doxa sub, which has the dial, uh, markings in different places. So, you know, I'm not sure what a metric watch would look like, but you know, 10, 10. Yeah. |
| James Stacey | I also don't really know conceivably it would be 10, 10 main sections versus 12. Uh, conceivably, but maybe, I don't know if it would be a 20 quote unquote hour day. I don't know. We're well out of our depth. I would say that the, the idea that 10, 10, I don't believe it would change in any way. It's typically more like 10 0 8 also. Yeah. Um, Rolex has started to do actual 10, 10 recently. Tudor does real 10, 10, but usually it's 10 0 8. And the idea is that that's a position where the hands frame the brand at noon. And, uh, if you go 10 0 8, your minute hand, does not obstruct any of the minute of the markers. Yeah. Uh, the, the five minute markers. So it's basically they, they picked a hand formation, a hand position that doesn't, um, cover anything that people would want to see in an ad about the watch. And then I think over time, you know, I've, I've heard people say that it's, you know, the, the 1008, 1010 thing is like the watch is smiling. I think that's a stretch. Um, I've heard a lot of these different reasons, but it's my understanding that the decision was basically made where like, show the watch in idealized scenarios, and that includes not covering the brand and not covering any of the markers, right? It gets a little bit harder when you get into chronographs or DOCSIS or that sort of stuff. But yeah, I think that's the key behind it. And I think even if you drastically change what a watch measures and how it displays that measurement, I don't think it would necessarily change the overall symmetry of what they found with the 1008, 1010 sort of thing. Fun question. I mean, maybe not a fun question. I feel quite stressed at the moment, but an interesting, an interesting question and not one I'd ever, I'd ever really considered, you know, I've definitely thought a lot about say the state's going to metric and whether or not that happens, who knows, maybe someday, maybe not. But, uh, it's a whole different thing when you start to think about just how ingrained everything is to the way that we currently manage the passage of time. Yeah. Yeah. |
| Jason Heaton | Cool stuff. Well, we should quit while we're ahead. |
| James Stacey | I'm not sure where we're headed after that. I think we might be well underwater after that question. Kyle, a good one. Certainly a fun way to end the episode. So as always, thank you so much for listening. You can get the show notes in the app for more details, and you can follow us on Instagram at Jason Heaton and at JESTACY. And of course, please follow the show at The Great NATO. Should you have any questions for us, like all of those in this episode from all these lovely voice recordings, And we leave you with this quote from Francis Bacon, who said, A prudent question is one half of wisdom. |