The Grey NATO - 136 - Straight to the Moon(watch)!
Published on Thu, 28 Jan 2021 06:00:27 -0500
Synopsis
The hosts discuss the big watch news of the week, including Omega's newly updated Speedmaster Professional watches with a new co-axial master chronometer movement and redesigned bracelet. They analyze the changes, compare it to recent updates from other iconic sport watches like the Rolex Submariner, and debate whether to get the Hesalite or sapphire crystal version. They also cover other new releases from LVMH brands like Zenith's new Chronomaster Sport and A385 Revival models. Additionally, they recommend checking out the music of Tom Corneal's band The Young Martyrs and an online watch search tool called Watch Screener.
Links
Transcript
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| Jason Heaton | Hello and welcome to another episode of The Grey Nado, a loose discussion of travel, diving, driving, gear, and most certainly watches. This is episode 136 and we thank you for listening. James, how goes it this week? |
| James Stacey | Hey man, I'm okay. I'm okay. You know, same old to a certain extent, looking out the window for those, you know, really dying to hear the Toronto area weather. Current scenario, it's not even a forecast. It's a snapshot. It's just dumping snow currently. Really? |
| Jason Heaton | Oh yeah. |
| James Stacey | Oh, good for you. I mean, that's, that can be fun. Yeah. I'm, I'm thinking it might be nice to go for a little, little drive around in the Jeep later in it. You know, we've got a few inches of standing so far, but it's only been going for a little while. So that, that might be a little bit of the day's entertainment. Leave it in rear wheel, turn the traction control off. Yeah. Pull a few people out. I did, I did mean to do what you've done and put a toe strap in the Jeep. Let's just go drive around. Yeah. In case you could pull some people out of the ditch. Yeah. Yeah. You didn't make sure you don't connect that toe strap to any body cladding. I suppose pop it right off. |
| Jason Heaton | How have you been? Oh, pretty good. Yeah. We had some snow a few days ago and it, you know, I mean we're, we're definitely like right in the depths of winter and, and when you don't get snow for a while and it's kind of great, it's boring. And then as soon as you get like a fresh snowfall, it like makes everything kind of exciting again. Yeah. So yeah, it'll be pretty for a few days and then hopefully it doesn't melt and then turn to ice. But yeah, we're close to the end of January and on the upswing now. |
| James Stacey | For the way it typically works here, and we'll see how it happens, this has been a very mild January. It's barely freezing currently. Yeah. And I think it's only been significantly below zero a few times. Yeah. But typically that could mean that February is just going to be terrible. Oh, yeah. Or we'll end up with one of these years where we don't have that much of a winter. You know, we've had a few snowfalls. This looks like it might be one of the bigger ones if it keeps going for the rest of the day. But yeah, we'll see. You know, I'm hoping, you know, my dad is very keen on getting some cross-country skiing in. So if this is going to be the start of an actual snow season for Ontario, then so be it. That wouldn't be so bad. |
| Jason Heaton | Do you guys get the lake effect or are you on the wrong side of the lake for that? That's the Buffalo side, isn't it? |
| James Stacey | And it's only, it's only bare. I think it's negative one right now. Like it may not even be enough to sustain this snow longterm. So we'll see. But yeah, it can come in really quickly with the lake effect. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. Well, speaking of, of winter, I mean, we, we got some big news last week that a team of Nepalese climbers summited K2, which was the first time it's been summited in winter ever. Amazing. And I don't know, the news struck me, I knew it was coming. I mean, I knew our, our old buddy Nim's Purja, who I interviewed in episode 88, um, and a Bremont ambassador, um, just a really impressive guy. He was leading one of the teams and he was very outspoken on social media about his desire to, to, to pull this off. And I kind of knew it was going to happen, but like when it did, I really, I'm still kind of riding a high just from the news about it. |
| James Stacey | It's such a, it's such a thing. And I think a lot of times, I think these days, because there's a granularity to you know, fastest known times and first ascents where it's not just like, you're always saying like, Oh, it was the first time someone did this. And then you add all the clauses. |
| Unknown | Yeah. |
| James Stacey | Right. Like maybe it was a new route, but they did. So with oxygen, maybe it was a winter time, but they did so with, uh, with support, um, you know, maybe it was Alpine style, but it was during the summer. Like it's all, it's all these different things. And with this, it's, it's very simple to understand probably the most dangerous mountain in the world. uh, widely considered to be almost, uh, impossible to climb year round. Yeah. And then they picked the heart, roughly the hardest season to go. I have a huge achievement. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. Yeah. So K2 is one of the, the 14, 8,000 meter peaks. Um, and it's the only one of them that is outside of Nepal and Tibet. So it's over in Pakistan and, um, it's, uh, Very steep. I mean, if you look at photos of it, it's, it's like just this very steep sided pyramid of, of rock and ice. And, you know, just, just for perspective, you know, Everest has been summited thousands of times and has a pretty good success rate if you have the money and the stamina to go climb it. But K2, I think less than 400 people have ever gotten to the summit at any time of year and never in winter until last week. Yeah. And it's like a one out of every four climbers dies, a death rate on that. So it's a very, very dangerous. I don't know. |
| James Stacey | Is that, is that the one in four? Is that still the current number? Cause that's what it was in Ed Visser's book. |
| Jason Heaton | Okay. I, that's the, I heard it recently. I mean, and it's been all over the news and they're still saying that, you know what? |
| James Stacey | I bet you, I bet you since Ed, there haven't been that many people that have done it. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. Like all things considered. Yeah. And I suppose, you know, a team of, I don't know, was it, 10 guys, these, this Nepalese team, I mean, they, they'll, they'll change the statistics alone. Just the, just the bunch of them going up to the top, which was really cool because, you know, traditionally, as everybody knows, you know, knocking off high summits all over the world, first ascents and, and the high mountains have, has been traditionally a very Western sort of white guy sport, um, you know, well-heeled, climbers that come in and then hire local porters and Sherpa guides to help them get up the mountain and put up fixed lines and carry gear. And what was significant about this is that this was a team of entirely Nepalese climbers that were working in a year that Himalayan climbing has been hit hard the past few years with, of course, COVID-19 restricting travel all over the world, but also some of the really unfortunate events like avalanches and earthquakes over in, in the Everest region that have killed a lot of people and shut down the climbing season. So this was a real triumph for, um, these incredible climbers that, that seldom get the acknowledgement that they should. And to do this on the hardest peak in winter, which had never been done as just a, I don't know, it's just so exciting. I just, I've just been watching NIMS's feed on, on Instagram and some of these other guys, Mingma G and Mingma Sherpa, Mingma David Sherpa, who, were on his squad and it was just, uh, just so cool. |
| James Stacey | Yeah. We'll make sure to put a stack of links in the show notes. It might not be as manicured as, as we typically offer, but there'll be some stories explaining this. And then the, some folks that we think you should follow because this is super fun. These guys, uh, you know, deserve all the attention, uh, that they can get for something like this. I think, uh, I think not only did they put their line on their, their, you know, their lives on the line for, uh, for a goal like this, but also like, like Jason said, this in many ways kind of turns the normal methodology of Western climbing in Pakistan and the Karakoram and such kind of on its head, certainly from a racial standpoint. And I think it's such a great thing and super fun that it was Nims, a guy that we've had a chance to have on the show and a fantastic ambassador for for Bremont at this point, right? Yeah, really, really impressive. And you've got it. You've got to be able to. Obviously, this is an insanely impressive guy, you know, Project Possible and such, which we've talked about a lot in the past. But, you know, the guy has such a great attitude and definitely believes that he can do anything. And look what he's doing. He's doing he's doing anything. He's bringing people along for the ride. It's I think it's great. This is super fun. |
| Jason Heaton | I think he's, he's seen by some as, as a little too brash and a little bit too kind of out there and outspoken. But I, I, I like him. I like him for that. I get the sense he's not doing it out of giant ego, but just almost like a over exuberance, almost just his enthusiasm is just bubbling over. And when I see him see what he's doing and even if you see him talk, he comes across like a, like a locomotive, you know, like he's just, He's unstoppable. Yeah. |
| James Stacey | There's a lot of like, there's a lot of like fun and, uh, and joy kind of bubbling right at the surface. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. Yeah. And he did it without oxygen. So most of his team, if not all the rest of the team had supplemental oxygen, which, you know, look, I'm not one to quibble about that, but, uh, you know, there were some questions right away from some in the climbing circle saying, yeah, but did anybody do it without supplemental oxygen? Uh, and sure enough, he, uh, NIMS had said he was going to, and he did it and you can see it in the, selfie video that, that, uh, that he posted and a few others posted of them getting to the summit and he's not wearing any mask or oxygen apparatus. So he, he did that, uh, in winter without supplemental oxygen. So incredible. Well, I mean, I was going to say in, in less dramatic news, it, uh, we've, we've got some, a few watches to talk about. It's been kind of a busy week, uh, on the, on the watch show front, the LVMH watch week. |
| James Stacey | So this is, yeah, this is like, you know, we say this probably every year. We're now entering, I guess, the fifth year of the Grey Nato. So this would have been a week where typically we would have been doing something in Geneva. Obviously, not always, you know, they moved the show around last year, which of course then didn't work out at all. And they've moved around this year, but typically January has some launches. And for Jason and I, we're pretty much used to Oris having something to launch. This is typically when they do their kind of press junket in Colorado. And they really didn't let us down in any way. They've already started with a pretty big watch for the year. And that's their new Carl Brashear caliber 401 limited edition. And so this is the third Brashear limited edition that the brand has made. It's a 40 millimeter bronze diver 65, but it's using their new 400 series movement. It's using the 401, which has sub seconds at six. And I think it's just gorgeous. It's kind of a navy blue dial with that bronze really nails the kind of two, two mode color scheme. Um, that really makes the bronze feel thoughtful and purposeful and then some extra warmth. And obviously that's kind of the key with bronze is warmth, but from the navy blue dial, pretty minimal, as far as text goes, you do get the five day text. So you can be sure you're, you're rocking that. And if I'm not mistaken, I believe it actually is from Erika's originals, which is a really great win for her to be connected up with Oris. I know she's partnered with a few |
| Jason Heaton | smaller watch brands in the recent times, and I believe I saw that she actually made this strap, which is super cool for her, and it's a great strap. |
| James Stacey | I had missed that. They're making 2,000, so that's a pretty solid order for Erica, for sure. Yeah, yeah. I love this watch, though. That's super fun. I think the watch is just gorgeous. I think any of the Breschier ones have been super fun. They're probably one of, you know, of the guys from Oris would have to fill us in on this, but I think they're probably one of the most successful limited edition. Certainly that first one sold very quickly. The second one is the chronograph, so it's a little bit bigger. I'm really thrilled that they went with the 40 millimeter sizing. I have a largely similar watch in the 65 LE from Hodinkee, obviously with a much more simple movement and it's set as hand wound and it's a little thinner, but a very similar general layout and I think it's just a really, really great thing. Yeah. Jason, I'm only seeing the CAD pricing due to my browser settings. What do you have there for a USD price on this? |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. Auris' website shows 4,200 US. So, you know, for a bronze limited edition with this wonderful new movement, uh, not, not bad. And I'm sure they'll, they'll crush it. They'll go through these. These are great. |
| James Stacey | Yeah. I think, um, I think that, you know, that, that does put it a cut above the Aquus and certainly above the standard for the, the, uh, Diver 65. But when you factor in the new movement, the bronze and limited edition, I think it makes sense. That price, I don't think is going to be too tough for them to, uh, to manage. And, and I'm, you know, Jason, I think you and I are really hit or miss when it comes to limited editions. Um, but I think 2000 pieces, that's a lot in some ways, but it's not that many in other ways. So I think it'll be interesting. I can't really predict how these will go. Uh, but my guess is certain markets. These will be very hard to find, uh, you know, markets with really good ADs, with a strong sort of enthusiast based for Oris. I think these could be quite popular. And the thing that I like the most about it is they've made a watch that from across a table, I could tell what it is without it being overdone. It doesn't say, you know, Carl Brashear limited edition on the dial. It doesn't have to have some sort of bright color, but just from the other side of the room, you could see it's bronze. You could see that it's blue and you could see this sort of design they've done for the, uh, the, um, seconds display, uh, that has sort of, uh, uh, like a, a gauge feel to it, which I think speaks again to the court sort of like Carl Brashear, you know, hard hat diver, uh, you know, little tiny important gauges were probably part of part of his life or at least somebody on the surface running the tube down to him. Right. Um, but if you, if you don't know the history of, of Carl Brashear and why Oris is doing this, we'll include some of that in the show notes. It might be fun to dig a bit deeper into that, uh, in the future, but for now, I think this is one that should be on your radar. Um, and certainly when we all start going back to, uh, you know, get togethers and red bars and such, these will be, uh, I think kind of stars of the show for a little while. Once that, that world starts to open back up. Yeah, definitely. |
| Jason Heaton | What do you think of the LVMH Watch Week? That's kind of the other big news this week on the watch side of things. |
| James Stacey | Anything interest you? Yeah, a couple of things were interesting. Actually, I think a lot of it was pretty interesting from an academic standpoint. I still exist in the news cycle for watches. Yeah. And so we're recording this on the 26th. So everything came out yesterday. It's all on Hodinkee. It's several watches, 12, 15 watches total, maybe more. So, yeah, the main brands that kind of offered up what would have been maybe part of their SIHH collection previously, but for 2021, they did the LVMH Watch Week. So, we got Bvlgari, we got Hublot, and we got Zenith. Notably, no Tag Heuer, but their CEO, boss man, decided, put out a video saying that they have their own announcements coming up. So, despite the fact that I think Tag is fairly important in the LVMH structure, they're doing something kind of apart from LVMH Watch Week proper. The Bulgari stuff and the Hublot stuff, of course, is like fine and very good, especially the Bulgari stuff. They did some really, really beautiful things, but not really in our wheelhouse. Thankfully, Zenith decided to make some stuff that was more in the TGN space. And I think the two that kind of hit Jason and I as interesting were this new Chronomaster and the new A385 kind of revival. What do you think of these, Jason? |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. So, I mean, I think the Chronomaster Sport, uh, it's such a handsome watch. And the obvious comparison with this one is, is with a ceramic bezel Rolex Daytona. And that's, you know, if you're going to be compared to anything, that's, that's not a bad one. I think, whereas the Daytona is really hard to come by and it's also very expensive. This is a just under $10,000 watch on the strap. Um, that's really handsome. It's got a really cool movement in it. I think it's a really sharp watch. |
| James Stacey | Yeah. I'm, you know, I, I think when I first saw it, I thought, Oh, well it's just a, a pretty strong knockoff of, uh, of, of the Daytona, like not knockoff, like, like they're trying to pull something past anyone, but they looked at a popular, very popular steel sports chronograph and they, they went about imitating it. But I think as soon as you spend some time in the details, my guess is they, they're not going to wear that similarly, uh, or kind of feel the same. I think they are very similar. And a lot of that comes down to the bezel. I was on a, uh, an episode of Hodinkee Radio and Jack brought this up saying like there's on paper, they're similar. And then you see them and there's enough tweaks that it's not as similar. They definitely went for a Daytona vibe, but they also had sort of a Daytona hole in their lineup. Yeah. If you wanted to make a new Chronomaster that used the same case from the 400, the El Primero 400s previously, I think that'd be fine. I think this establishes it as different in the lineup. And my guess is they'll, they'll continue to make some with the 400 the previous movement. while also offering this new Chronomaster Sport, which has a new caliber 3600. It's a three-register chronograph. It doesn't have screw-down pushers, which I really like the piston pushers on this. The kind of mushroom caps look really good. And I really like the white one, which is the same. That's how I feel about the Daytona with the white dial. I can't really get into the date at 430, but But it has been made abundantly clear to me that if any watch gets away with this, it's the Zenith, the El Primero, because that's where the date's been on an El Primero for so long. So you know what? I'm willing to admit that that's fine. I actually really like the way the date is within the world of terrible 430 dates. 430 dates are still a mess, but the black one does it really well. It's very hidden thanks to a black date wheel. So I think that's fine. I wouldn't have minded seeing one without a date, but I'm not sure it would have made any sense within the lineage of the El Premier. So watch companies have to try and balance all this and then make a decision. And the other thing that you and I have learned, because I think you were sitting at the same table when I brought this up with a watch executive, people buy dates. Yeah. No date watches are the ones that you put on a poster so that enthusiasts remember the watch, but they don't go out and buy. People who actually buy watches like more as a watch and less as an object of fascination for their general enthusiasm with the entire watch market, they like dates. Yeah. So that, that part I understand and Zenith has to operate within the realm of being as commercial as possible. Um, because obviously if you go back several years, then it's went through a lot of growing pains to get to where they are now. Right. And yeah, I think all told, I think this will be a very popular watch. I hope that it kind of puts Zenith into another lane, not a new lane. I think that they're doing just fine with the El Primeros, but to perhaps elevate in general, the idea that they make a really great sporty watch that could be an excellent, not alternative, but an excellent, you know, part of the decision tree that maybe a lot of people end up taking to Rolex. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. Yeah. Every time I look at Zenith, the Zenith lineup, they make such amazing chronographs. And we'll get to the second one, which I like even more in a minute here, but I don't know why, but they always kind of fall off my radar. I just don't think of them when you kind of list off the top five or six brands and kind of even cool chronographs. I always forget about them. And then when I see them, I'm like, they're just so sporty looking. |
| James Stacey | Yeah. And that might be the reason they went with this overall design is to get into that specific discussion. Yeah. Yeah. You know what I mean? You know, and I think the other thing to keep in mind is you're still get, it's still an on premiere. It's still a five Hertz movement. You still get that super fast seconds hand. It is a brand new movement. It's a new iteration of the movement that theoretically will be easier to service and not require service in the same manner. It's a little bit simplified in terms of its architecture, but its performance appears to be very strong. I think the watch is quite handsome. You know for those who have literally no idea what watch we're talking about. This is a it's 10,000 bucks in steel It's it's a 5 Hertz movement like I mentioned It's a hundred meters water resistance, and it's a 41 millimeter steel case at this point because we haven't seen it just these images I don't know how tall it is so lug to lug and I don't know how thick it is You know I think that that would be kind of crucial to see Maybe the follow-up post on Houdinki from somebody will be the hands-on with the current Daytona and the current Zenith to try and find out where they kind of differentiate each other. But yeah, I think this is a good one. To your point, I think in some ways, if this isn't the one that would appeal to you, the other cool chronograph they launched is, and that's the new A385 Revival. I know that it's a revival of 1969, but anything from 1969 bled well into the early 70s, which is very much your milieu when it comes to an aesthetic. uh, kind of timeline, uh, brown kind of gradient dial reminds me of like an old Gibson or a Les Paul with the, uh, with the sunburst pattern, uh, really beautiful sub dials. Again, we have a date at four 30, but that is a, an El Primero thing. So it's the kind of thing you just kind of have to deal with. And then it has this chunky kind of blocky tonneau case, which we've seen obviously on past Zeniths. This is what it's referencing, but we've also seen on some of the revival units as well. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. I mean, when I looked at this watch, you know, the photos just grabbed me. I love that angular case. Um, the, the gradient dial with the reverse Panda sub dials, those, uh, mushroom style pushers. Uh, it's, it has the same appeal. I was like, what is it? What is it about this watch that, that I like? And it's kind of the same aesthetic that I like about the, the Aqua star deep star. It's that kind of shimmery dial that, um, kind of simple, but, but very angular sort of case. I don't know how to even describe it. It's not the same case, but you know what I mean. It's just kind of lays everything out there very nakedly. You know, the dial just sort of sits like in a porthole on this case, and I just love that. And it looks really good on the brown leather. I'm not as keen on that ladder style bracelet. I think, you know, arm hair poking through a bracelet isn't to my taste, but. |
| James Stacey | Yeah, I like those bracelets in concept. Yeah. Less so on a wrist like mine, you know, like it's just, it would just, like you said, it would just be an arm hair thing. Yeah. Yeah. Um, but I think on the right wrist, super cool. I also absolutely love and like huge props to Zenith 37 millimeters. Yes, I know. I know. Like I understand this as a revival and as a brand, they take the revival thing very seriously in making them as laser accurate as possible. But even with the Aqua star, yeah, we went, you know, we went up in size to 4.5. Right. And with this, it's just a 37. I mean, this watch will be so sweet on wrist. I don't know how much... Compared to the other versions of these that they've done, I think if I wanted one like this, I thought that A384, which had the Panda dial in the same case, that's probably a little bit closer to me than this sort of Les Paul fade. Yeah. But it is really gorgeous and it is a really killer size. And you know, they're looking at, uh, what is it? It's not a limited edition and on the strap it's under eight grand. Yeah. So huge competition for, I would think almost any kind of luxury chronograph out there, certainly if you're Breitling. So this is one pointed directly at the, you know, Breitling 765 and, uh, and, and other things like that. And I think, I think they've done a nice job. And, and like I mentioned on the Hodinkee radio episode is, you know, Jason, you and I, we, we praise Longines for being really good at making interesting watches based on previous designs. And I think Zenith quietly is operating at a very high level, just like Reitling is, in looking into their back catalog and making these watches and not making them, not kind of getting most of the way there and then changing something to make it easier or cheaper in their lineup, just making the watch how it is. And this has a caliber 400, so the now previous El Primero movement, which is, again, super cool to have in a chronograph. Yeah, yeah. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah, it's, it's, it, those are, those are the two winners that I'm seeing from LVMH. The Bulgari stuff is impressive, but definitely not my thing. And the Hublot stuff I sort of glanced at and moved on. But yeah, these are, these are the two winners for me early in the week here. |
| James Stacey | Okay. So I think we can jump to some speculation about Tag Heuer and their upcoming early February announcements, but you know, before we get any deeper into LVMH Watch Week or otherwise, It's not lost on Jason and I that some level of disclosure is likely warranted for a talk like this. As many of you already know, the venture wing of LVMH recently invested in Hodinkee and while the relationship between Hodinkee and the Grenado is exclusively an ad sharing deal, Jason and I wanted to make sure that we were clear because we understand why this is such a big deal to the audience shared between Hodinkee and the Grenado and really people who read about watches online. Furthermore, I hold a senior writing position with Hodinkee and greatly enjoy the editorial independence that that role continues to offer. You know, the opinions expressed by TGN are our own, or, you know, those of a guest, and they're not influenced, boosted, or tempered, directly or otherwise, by any other parties. If we have an ad break, we'll make that abundantly clear. If a company sends us a product, we'll make that clear, too. Jason, I greatly appreciate the Gray Nadeo's audience, and we don't take your trust for granted. Given the focus of this episode, we figured you all deserve to know where we stand and how we think about such things and that we notice them in general. With that out of the way, Tag Heuer's announcement is around, you know, a week away, but looking towards next week, what would you like to see from Tag Heuer versus, you know, I think that I'm hoping we don't see a continued expansion of kind of 45 millimeter chronographs with or tourbillons. I hope we don't see more sport, more, you know, connected. Like it's fine. I understand that they need to have that in their lineup. But for me, man, I would just love to see a return to like the, the pro divers from the eighties, like just bring me back a loom dial Aqua racer at like four at like 40 millimeters with a simple movement. Yeah. Try and lean a little bit on that fun loving, like before, like when tag was more of this, um, this kind of egalitarian place where you could come with almost any price point and find a pretty good sports watch. Yeah. Which I don't think they quite hit these days. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah, I agree. I think, um, you, you took the words out of my mouth. I think dive watch is, is what I think of that. That's kind of missing from, from Tag Heuer's lineup. And I think that Aqua racer watch that I think you, you have in mind as well from, I don't know, nineties, early two thousands. Um, yeah. |
| Unknown | Uh, it was just such a winner. Yeah. |
| James Stacey | blocky bezel. Right. But I think I think that they could probably drop the Mercedes hands now and go with something that still that ties it in. I think the current like I had a WN2110 way back. Yeah. And that's their 300 meter dive watch with an at the time it had a an aluminum bezel. It was like 11 millimeters thick. A fantastic watch. Great loom. Nice glossy black dial. I remember having that and liking that. And then since then I've not really found a tag that I really wanted to own. Right. Right. A few pop up here there, but typically they're kind of special or expensive or both. I don't think that we're going to see another, you know, seven or eight new Monaco's. I think they're, they went through that with the recent anniversary. Um, but I do think there's a ton of potential there. I just don't really know how much, how high to get my hopes. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. Yeah. You know, speaking of dive watches before we move on from even from Zenith, like don't you see that that is a big hole in Zenith's lineup? Like they don't have a dive watch. |
| James Stacey | Do you remember the really cool dive watch that used to make? The elite? |
| Jason Heaton | No, I don't. I don't remember any Zenith dive watch. I can't even picture one other than like the, what did they call it? The one that shared with Movado back in the sixties. It was like the super sub C something or other. |
| James Stacey | Yeah, for sure. So if you, if you check out, it was called an elite rainbow automatic diver's watch. Oh, I've actually been, I've been looking, they make a yellow dial very briefly. They made a yellow dial, but the, um, the it's 39 millimeters, super thin. Um, I've always thought the black version, the black dial version was a very, uh, very pretty dress diver. |
| Jason Heaton | Oh, I'm looking now. Yeah. |
| James Stacey | So that's, that's a, a Zenith footnote that I think about a lot. Actually, I've tried a couple of times in my life to buy these. They're not easy to come by there. I don't think they sold that many. Yeah. I have no idea what they'd be worth now, but my buddy Paul Hubbard, who I think he owned your Pelagos, Jason, or you owned his one or the other. Yeah. Paul and I used to talk about these a lot because he, he's a big fan of thin divers. Yeah. Um, and yeah, I think these are super fun again. So obviously is on it. You have a data for 30 that literally could have gone anywhere else on that dial. Yeah. Yeah. It would look great at six, but otherwise the funny thing is, is if you look at this, the, the, the dial is very much that late eighties simplicity, that little bit of stark, almost like you'd expect from a citizen, right. An early eco drive or something, but then the rest of the watch is almost like they took a Submariner and just squished it. |
| Unknown | Yeah. |
| James Stacey | So there's no curvature to a lot of the beveling. It's just flat angles. And that's where you get a watch that ends up being quite a bit thinner. I think this is an interesting watch. It's one that no one ever talks about. And man, would it be fun if they took a leap and made another elite, call it the elite diver or this elite rainbow. The rainbow used to be a huge lineup within their existence. I think these are super fun. I still would love to check one out at 39 millimeters. I bet you they wear really well. And they are now, maybe not when I first started following these, seven, eight years ago, something like that. But they are now, they are pushing into that almost vintage aesthetic, right? |
| Jason Heaton | I think they're cool. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe Zenith just thinks dive watches, we're going to leave that to, I don't know, Tag Heuer. I mean, it's not like the LVMH is really big into dive watches in general. So somebody should step up. I think that's my, that's my two cents for our LVMH ventures, uh, overlords here. |
| James Stacey | Yeah. Yeah. However that works out for sure. Uh, yeah. If, if, if by chance anyone's listening, um, decent, decent job with LVMH watch week for sure. Fine. Uh, really dig the Zenith stuff, but maybe give us a Zenith rainbow elite diver. And then when you get around to tag Hoyer, there's, there's just like, man, imagine a loom dial titanium. Yeah. 39 40 millimeter aqua racer. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. Well, do you remember they did the night diver two, three years ago? It was, uh, the, the, the loom dial courts. I liked that watch. I wanted to get one in for review a couple of weeks. |
| James Stacey | Yeah. And we've, well, I, the, the, the only reason I bring up loom dial a couple of times and I do, I do remember that watch now that you mentioned it, Jason, but the only reason I bring it up a couple of times is we've seen a couple of loom dials this year. Yeah. and from L. V. M. H. Now that I think of it, the Bulgari put a loom dial on the the chronograph. G. M. T. Cranios has one. Yeah, right. Yeah, I love loom dials. Yeah, I'd love to see a tag get back to that. That was one of those tags. I tried to chase down back in the day was one of the one of the what do they call them the professional? Yeah, professional something. It had a certain maybe is the thousand meter pro Very Rolex-y in some ways, but at the same time, just now you look back on them and they just seem super tag, even with the Mercedes hands. |
| Jason Heaton | Well, and they have the same case, the Monin case as the CWCs, which I had one of those quartz professional with the black dial. It was a quartz one. I kind of regret getting rid of that. That was a cool watch, but yeah, I'm looking at a picture of that on a beads of rice with a loom dial. Beautiful. Right. |
| James Stacey | Could be really fun. Imagine if that came in and it was like a two grand or under two grand. Yep. Yep. Right. Seven, 1700 bucks or something. Yeah. And then, and then make, make the same one, the titanium, the loom dial, but throw it on a rubber strap and bring the price even down. Cause titanium bracelets are expensive. Yeah. Bring the price down and just start seeing, like, I think people would just go like, Oh, maybe I won't spend $1,200 on a Seiko diver. The one that James won't stop talking about maybe this cool tag for a little bit more. Right. Yeah. Yeah. I think, yeah, I think there's a lot of potential there, but lately at, you know, I just see stuff with tag and it feels like they do a lot of kind of the same. Maybe I got a little bit of Monaco fatigue, as much as I like a Monaco as much as any other guy, but it has been a lot of Monaco recently. So I'm excited to hear what they've got and how it kind of blends in with what Zenith's already doing in the kind of the sporty space. So that's it for LVMH Watch Week. If you have any questions for us, any concerns or whatever, as always, thegrenadoatgmail.com. Jason, what else have you got kind of to chat about on your list? We can do a risk check certainly, which will give away some of our main topic, which is of course given away by the title. So it's not really a giveaway at all, but I see you're, you're shooting film again. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah, we went for a little hike, uh, two days ago. It was a kind of sunny, nice winter day, fresh snow. And, uh, I had put a roll of, I don't remember which the film is, but it's a Kodak 400 color film in my Nikon F3. I finally got some battery issues sorted out. I was using the wrong batteries in that camera. Um, but now I got it working and took it on a hike and, shot about half a roll. And then as, you know, as the great mysteries of social media and, uh, advertising go, I started getting, uh, ads in my Instagram feed for photo scanning, like film photo scanning apps that you can take a strip, you know, a negative strip and put it against like a light box or a, your laptop screen and shoot with the app and it'll convert it to like scan photos. Um, and so I haven't really gone fully down the rabbit hole, but I guess I'm kind of putting it out there. If anyone has used anything decent, I have a photo scanner, so I have a, I have a negative scanner, but it's bulky and the interface is like circa 2005, you know, it's really clunky to use. Um, I'd just love a quick way to, to kind of convert, you know, film photos, you know, negatives to, to, to good, you know, digital renders. |
| James Stacey | Yeah. The, the only, the only way that I know of, and I know a few people who do this and I've never seen anyone successfully use their phone for it. |
| Unknown | Yeah. |
| James Stacey | Um, but I have seen a lot of people, you know, literally take a lamp, a really bright desk lamp or whatever, and then, and then use something to stabilize the, the, the strip of film and then basically shoot a macro photo of the film with a digital camera and a macro lens. And then you can drop it into Photoshop and do the, the inverse negative and get your photo. Yeah. Um, so, I mean, that would be an option. I'm sure you have the gear there to, to make that happen, but I guess if they make a little contraption that could clip into your phone or, or whatever, and maybe you hold it up to a window to get the light, I could see that being quite functional as well, as long as it maintains the minimum focus distance on the phone. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. The one, the one that was popped up in my feed that I was looking at, um, it's an app for the phone and then there's a link that, you know, you pull up a webpage. on a, on like a laptop, like my Mac book. And it would, it's like just a blank white screen. So basically like a light box and then you lay the negative on the screen. Um, so it's back lit and then you, I think you have to frame the negative so that the holes show the leader holes on the side show in the, in the app and then you snap a photo of it and then it has all these tools that you can use to adjust it. Now the scanner that I have, I can't remember the brand, it's under my desk here somewhere, but, It has a little frame that you can mount the negative strips in and then it actually will scan it and it does a good job. But again, it's, you know, it's clunky. I got to kind of find the desk space for it and pull it out and launch the app on my, on my Mac book and et cetera. But, uh, just throwing it out there in case anybody's ever had any good experience. Yeah. Something kind of quick and dirty. You know, I just, I don't want to spend a ton of time. I just want to, you know, check out the photos that, uh, that I get. I realized that labs usually scan and give you like a, you know, like a Dropbox link or something to get your photos. Yeah. But I, I have processed here at home in the past and I wouldn't mind doing that, but then you're left with, with negatives that then you have to somehow scan. So I'm trying to kind of get around that, but we'll see. Anyway, it's just, it's good to be out shooting after our discussion in the last episode about shooting film and about how it's kind of a little time capsule from months earlier. I'm kind of looking forward to taking my time and working through this role and then maybe getting it developed in, you know, spring or summer and saying, Oh yeah, that was our winter hike back in January. So yeah, it's fun. I agree. |
| James Stacey | Yeah. Yeah. It'd be interesting to what people come up with. I know that if I could scan easily at home, I might be more interested in doing the development at home lately. Not lately for the, let's say 20 ish roles that I've shot since I got into film. I've just been having them developed and scanned, you know, at downtown camera here in Toronto or at a color house in Soho in New York. Um, and, and that's been fine. Uh, but I, I can see, I can see both for cost reasons and for like general control where people might decide to start doing that at home, especially if you're doing a lot of roles, it does get expensive. I mean, it's 25 bucks or whatever. Um, so I think if you're doing that a lot, it would be, I do, I do see something somewhat funny in the idea of shooting something in film, exposing the film and then setting it up with a digital camera to take a digital image of the film. To make, to turn it back into film colors and then to publish it somewhere. |
| Jason Heaton | I know, you know, a few years ago I took a class, there's a lab in town that has all the enlarging equipment and I was doing my own printing and enlarging and I had some fantastic results. I had some, a black and white roll that I had taken to Iceland and I shot some amazing landscape shots there. And, um, I, I processed the film myself and then I brought it to this lab and then they walked us through the enlargement process and used all their gear there. And I could get a membership there and it was, It was so satisfying to go completely from end to end, you know, loading my roll of film in the camera, shooting the, the, the photo processing it like in a, you know, hand manual shaking hand tank, and then using the enlargement equipment to, to make, I don't remember what size they were pretty big, decent sized, uh, black and white prints. And, uh, so that was really fun. And I, I do bristle a little bit at the idea of like, okay, I'm going to like scan these, you know, to put on Instagrammers. I mean, it's just, it feels wrong, but on the other hand, I don't know. I want to do something with them. So. |
| James Stacey | Yeah, no, I feel you for sure. I've, uh, I've enjoyed doing it. I haven't shared very much of it. It's, it's been something a little bit more for just for me so far, but we'll see. I'm, I'm having a tough time like approaching social media these days. Yeah. Uh, I kind of stay off of it. I'm not publishing very much, but I think I'll get back into it at some point. I think it was easier when I was more constantly tasked with using my camera. |
| Unknown | Mm. |
| James Stacey | Nowadays, it just feels like, what, I'm going to, like, design a watch shot and get the one shot, edit it, and put it up, and I just go play some video games or something instead, so. Oh, the one thing that I did come across recently that we haven't talked about, I finally got it in and then finally had a chance to use it. I don't go out that much, so I don't have a lot of call for a mask, but I did pick up one of these, you know, everybody knows Buff, the like neck gaiter company. They make a COVID specific version of the buff called the filter tube. This is not an ad. I paid for two of them at full price. I don't mind. They're $38 or whatever. They come with a little pocket over your mouth where you can put a filter and it comes with filters. It's my understanding. I'm not a doctor or a scientist. Do your own research when it comes to COVID and trust the main resources from your local government and stuff. But it's my understanding that a normal Um, buff is actually not an effective way of blocking, um, the spit particles or whatever. So the, they, they develop something a little bit more specific that has a front, um, that, that contours a little bit at your nose and, and holds the filter where it needs to. I've been super happy with it. It's really nice to be able to know that you have to pop into a store and not have something hanging off your ears or, you know, where, where, maybe you put the mask somewhere that's not that clean, like not clean or not clean in terms of virus, but just clean or not clean in terms of hygiene. So then you're constantly washing the mask and the rest of it. This is a little bit easier. I leave it somewhere clean and tidy and then I put it on and it lives around my neck and it's a little bit more straightforward. So if you're in the world moving in and out and especially want some additional kind of face coverage for cold weather, I've been fairly impressed by these. So good job, Buff. All right. Let's, uh, let's keep moving. We, we keep saying, we told ourselves today, this was going to be a shorter show and it's definitely not going to be a shorter show. So, uh, what's on risk. |
| Jason Heaton | Uh, well you go first because mine segues into our main topic. |
| James Stacey | Oh, so it does. Yeah. I'm actually, um, I'm back on the Phoenix success. Oh, the Garmin. Um, I've been using it for a little while. So I went through a sort of exclusionary diet for the first part of, uh, January. Yeah. And that included excluding alcohol. And, uh, and, and during that time, I, uh, towards the end, I started to notice that my sleep started to get a lot better. Oh, I was sleeping more deeply. I was sleeping for the whole night, that sort of thing, which is not common for me. Uh, so I, I grabbed the Phoenix and, and just started using it for the sleep tracking. Uh, and then I, I, uh, a couple of days ago, I reintroduced, um, alcohol. I had a drink and then I watched what it did to my sleep, which was about, it destroyed it by about 50%. Oh, wow. uh, that one night. And, um, and I watched, like, I was able to see that it has like a profound effect on my heart rate as well after, after not for the better part, like a better part of a month. Yeah. Um, so yeah, just, just kind of using it to, uh, to kind of keep up with some of that stuff and feel a little bit healthier this year, you know, being inside a lot and much more sedentary than I'm kind of used to. Yeah. Uh, definitely need to watch the, uh, the, the slow accrual of pounds and bad, bad, uh, habits. Uh, so that, that's where, that's where I'm starting with this. And, and it's been great because it, you know, obviously it, it, it helps me track the weather, which is useful these days when it's going to be colder or not. And then you have the, uh, the other features as well. And then it also can very easily track and record kind of my general energy level for workouts. So I have that little cadence sensor that's on my exercise bike. So I can do a bike ride and then it recommends, you know, when I should do another, when it makes sense for my general energy level. So, you know, I think we've talked about this watch a lot. This is the 42 millimeter, uh, kind of top, top spec, uh, of the smaller version of the Phoenix success. And I've been super happy with it. And the sleep tracking has been genuinely helpful. |
| Jason Heaton | Oh, nice. Nice. I've never used, I've never worn a Garmin, overnight, I guess, or I guess I've never, I probably have, but I haven't used it to track sleep. So is it, is it a special part of the app that actually kind of shows your sort of patterns or your, your sort of. |
| James Stacey | Exactly. Yeah. So I think at a, at a, the, the entry, the entry point is you can make it a little app on the phone itself. So here it's saying that I got it, it gives me a score of 87 quality was good and total rest period was like almost 10 hours. Okay. I didn't sleep for 10 hours. That would be remarkable. Yeah. Um, but I w I was kind of calm and restful for the 10 hours. Um, and then you can, you can kind of, um, it gives you like a, uh, a chart, a graph, I guess that breaks down awake, REM sleep, light sleep and deep sleep. Oh wow. Yeah. It's, uh, it's pretty good. And, um, the stuff that you get on the watch is enough to tell you if you did good or bad. Yeah. Uh, and then you can go into the connect app and see more from there. So yeah, if you're, I know the other one, there's a couple like, like the Wahoo Fitness Tracker is super popular for sleep as is the Aura Ring. So there's a bunch of different ways to do this. And if sleep is your concern, there's probably ways more specifically designed to track sleep versus tracking almost everything. But once you enable the sleep thing, the Garmin body battery, which is kind of how they tell you how rested you are, and how ready you are for another workout or another, you know, period of, of intense physical activity. Um, it may, it becomes kind of more useful when you're also tracking your sleep. Cause you'll see what it adds back to the body battery after good sleep or bad sleep. Huh? Right. So all of it's a little bit gimmicky is with is what you get with fitness tracking and body metric tracking and all this kind of stuff. But I found it useful. I like that. It's something that I can check in the morning and kind of go like, Oh, well it turns out that that snack at 10 30, like, is going to affect me all day now, the next day. Oh, sure. Right. Or, or, or that, that glass of bourbon at eight or nine o'clock or whatever, like you can see this 10 or 12, you know, BPM jump in my heart rate. That kind of sits all the way through how I sleep and the sleep becomes much lighter. There's almost no REM sleep. Yeah. It's it's, I think it's interesting. I don't know if it's interesting enough to even talk about on the podcast, so I probably won't do it again, but in case I have had a few people write in about the aura ring and the Wahoo and sleep tracking on Garmin. So, This is filling in for the two or three emails I've gotten. And for everyone else who's listening, uh, you know, try and get some good sleep. |
| Jason Heaton | That's all. Yeah. I think the moral of the story is, uh, you should have your bourbon with breakfast instead of after dinner. |
| James Stacey | Yeah. Right. I gotta, I gotta, yeah, I gotta, I gotta learn a new phase. Boozy lunches only. Uh, yeah, I think, I think the, the ticket might actually be just no bourbon. Yeah. Right. As, as, as sad as that would be. Yeah. Yeah. So Moving on, yours will take us to our main topic. What have you got on right now? |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah, so I've got an old fashioned activity tracker. This is my 1968 Speedmaster. So it's a pre-moon 145.012-68. Made in April of 68, delivered to Lebanon in June of that year, I think it was. And it's got the caliber 321. I bought it secondhand, gosh, probably five years ago now. And I don't wear it a ton, but it's still Still a great watch and very appropriate for today since our main topic is the new Speedmaster. |
| James Stacey | Yeah. New speedies. So this is as big as LVMH Watch Week is or isn't or whatever, like at least in our world and the rest of like, I think this is the biggest news yet for 2021. Yeah. And I also understand that depending on your love of Speedmasters, and I'm pretty lukewarm when it comes to Speedmasters, they are great watches. They just don't fit me that well, but depending on your, on your love and attention to the Speedmaster, the idea that Omega launched new Speedmasters is confusing, right? I think so. Speedmaster is probably more than a hundred watches, probably easily more than a hundred watches. Now that my brain starts to try and find the side, certainly if you include what they call men's and ladies' watches. I think all watches are unisex, but that's, that's beyond me. Just wear whatever you want to wear. The thing to consider here is when someone says there's a new Speedmaster, what's important is it's a new Speedy Pro, which is the absolute core of the Speedmaster world. For a long time, it's been two models, one with a sapphire crystal and one with a Hesalite crystal, which is plexiglass, the kind of traditional plastic style domed crystal. That's a little bit of a vintage throwback and it definitely makes the dial look different. So that's the big thing is that it's not that they're revamping the world of Speedmaster. It's literally a world of watches, but the absolute middle, the core, the one that everybody, the 30, 35, 70 fifties, um, that everybody's talked about, whether it's Sapphire sandwiches or has a light or whatever, those have been updated. Yeah. And within that scope, um, that's a huge announcement. |
| Jason Heaton | Can we, can we zoom out to like a really general high level? Because even, Even I'm a bit confused and I'm something of a Speedmaster fan. So if we just sort of look at the big categories of Speedmaster professional, you have the caliber 321, the one that's on my wrist, the vintage pre-moon stuff. Then after 19, late 68 into 69, they changed over to the caliber 861, which the biggest difference between the two at a very general level is, They got rid of the column wheel, added kind of a cam actuated chronograph mechanism that lasted through the seventies, eighties. Then it became what was called the 1861, which was roughly the same. Um, and then in 2019, which was the 50th anniversary of the landing on the moon, they re released a new version of the three 21 in precious metal. Right. And then, Later came a steel version, so that was an updated caliber 321. This new one is an update of the 1861 with the cam actuated movement, correct? With a coaxial, right? |
| James Stacey | Is that where we're at now? |
| Unknown | Okay. |
| James Stacey | Right. So now the 1861 is now the 3861. And to keep in mind that 1861 was also dubbed the 1863, in the Sapphire versions, a slightly different finishing, I believe. Oh yeah. You don't have to email me if I got that wrong. I had to write the buyer's guide and I know 1863 was in there as well. But we now have a 3861 and it's a master chronometer and it's coaxial. So it's a big step up in movement tech. Yeah. It's a, you know, 50 hour power reserve. It's still manually wound. If you actually look at the back, aside from where it says on the movement, you know, 3861 and master coaxial, It also aesthetically looks a lot like the 1861, 1863 that we've seen in, you know, tons of Speedmasters, both pros and otherwise. Really, really kind of big move. They, you know, two options in steel, the Sapphire and the Hesalite, and then they're also doing a white gold and a Sedna gold version. That Sedna gold version looks incredible. Very fun. I love the dial on that. Yeah. Yeah, then we get into the more kind of specific things. So you mentioned the dial. The dial's been updated to have a step dial, which references, I think, in some ways, the 145012 that you have on. It's also a step dial model, if I'm not mistaken. Yeah. So that's kind of a throwback design. The Sapphire version will have an applied logo. So the little Omega logo will be in metal versus painted. The Hesalite is painted, and the Sapphire version has a display case back. so you can see the movement, whereas the Hesalite is a closed case back. It is little tweaks, the Hesalite version. It's a brand new bracelet for all four of these new models, and I think the bracelet looks incredible. |
| Jason Heaton | It's a perfect speedy bracelet. Given that the rest of the watch looks largely similar, the bracelet, I think, is the biggest visible upgrade that you get on that. It's that nice taper down to, I think, 15 or 16 millimeter clasp, if I'm not mistaken. |
| James Stacey | Yeah, it's 20 and it drops to 15. Great. And it's a, I would call it an Orfina style bracelet, but I think even that's a little bit misleading. It's a five link bracelet with, on the Sapphire, the center channels. So if you're thinking of it in lanes, lanes two and four are thin and are fully polished. |
| Unknown | Yeah. |
| James Stacey | And then even better on the Hesalite, the whole bracelet's matte. Oh, really? They did that. Okay. All right. Yep. So that's another way that you can tell them apart. Um, if, if you wanted to, between the Sapphire and the, the Hesalite, uh, otherwise you're still looking at 42 millimeters wide for any of these. Uh, but the, they're a little bit thinner. So the, the new Sapphire is three point, uh, 13.18 millimeters versus, uh, 13.7 and the Hesalite drops from 14.3 millimeters to 13.58. And they're also ever so slightly less long from 48 millimeters lug to lug. The new case is 47.3 millimeters. So that's all a plus, no question. And if you want, I'll put a link to this buyer's guide I wrote for Hodinkee. It has all the specs in a chart and kind of breaks down the differences. So we don't have to go too far into some of this, but this is definitely like a really kind of big deal. And, uh, the pricing hasn't changed a huge amount either. It's, it's up a little bit. Uh, you know, you used to pay if you wanted the original, the Sapphire, the previous Sapphire was, um, about $6,400 and the previous half has a light was about $5,400. And now you're up to, uh, about $7,200 for the, uh, the Sapphire and $6,300 for the, the Hezalite. So we're seeing about a thousand dollars, roughly give or take a thousand dollar jump to move from the 1861 slash threes to the 3861. And, and I think for what you get in the movement and the bracelet, super worth it. Yeah. Yeah. I mean like people, people will probably end up spending a thousand dollars to get this bracelet and try and fit it on their 1861. |
| Jason Heaton | I wonder if it will with that different lug to lug with, I know it's very slight, but I wonder if it's going to be backwards compatible. |
| James Stacey | Yeah, that I have no idea. I'm sure that it might be something that people have already figured out on the forums and stuff. It's, you know, if speedies aren't really something that I follow that closely, I, I, I dug in for this post for Hodinkee, but otherwise it's not something that I would be that granular on, but like an, an Omega steel bracelet, it's going to cost you maybe not a thousand dollars, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was more than a thousand dollars. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Um, so the fact that, that if you were just in, like, if you were going to buy the watch now and you're like, Oh, well I could do this and add this bracelet after you're going to be talking about similar money. Yeah. Uh, so I, I think the, the pricing makes sense to me. Some people seem kind of, kind of bummed by the price or the fact that there was any sort of increase, but I mean, brand new movement, that's also coaxial and master certified and a new bracelet. I don't, I don't know. That makes sense to me. I think especially compared to like the bond style bracelets, right? Even the speedy pro bracelet, which is what my, 2254 had on it. That's a great, that's a great bracelet and one that I really like. I still like this new one, just, just from the images alone. I love the taper. I love that Orfina style. I know the Orfina stuff is technically three link, but when it's all polished or when it's all brushed like it is on the Hesalite, I think it looks a lot like those, those early Porsche design racing bracelets, like that bracelet I put on the, the 144 STGMT. |
| Jason Heaton | Uh, just a super sporty rounded links. Yeah. Those are, those are really cool. Yeah. Omega makes a great bracelet. Yeah. They absolutely do for sure. Two things that come to mind with this new Speedmaster. Um, one is it, it feels like a bigger deal to me, um, compared to the launch, the upgrade of the, the Submariner last year, the other big icon in the watch world. Oh, I would agree. Yeah. And, and, um, you know, Rolex, you know, tweaked the case size, tapered the lugs, increased the case to 41, but then the watch kind of overall got a little slimmer looking. Um, they did some movement upgrades. So for some reason that what kind of people were like, huh? Okay, cool. Looks good. Move on. I don't know. The Speedmaster upgrade feels like a bigger deal to me. And yet it's again, it's like visibly it's virtually the same watch other than the bracelet. Um, But it's this, it's this movement upgrade. Right. And, and the little things that the nerds like the step dialed dot over 90 on the bezel. Yeah, there's a lot there. Stuff like that. So, um, the other thing that I think of too, is we just talked about the new Zeniths and the new Chronomaster, um, which is kind of their flagship chronograph and, and ticks in right at about 10 grand, you know, give or take. Um, and, and here we are with, with a new Speedmaster, which to me, is such a, you know, given its history and the reliability of, of the three 21 and the eight, eight 61 movements has always been kind of this bar that's been set or the standard bear for, for what a great sports rugged chronograph can be. Um, and this one still comes in thousands less than, than the Zenith for what, what is really a, a legend that has now been improved greatly. Um, so, you know, I don't know how they compare, |
| James Stacey | Yeah, my guess is that the Zenith's competition would be the Moonwatch 321. The kind of higher spec for the Moonwatch, but ultimately, you know, the 321 has a flat link bracelet. It's that sort of Ed White tribute with the tan markers and an applied mark and like an entirely different sort of like together you put them next to each other. Sure, they're both still Speedmasters and they both are basically the same design, but there's a lot of little things that are different. Yeah. And in many, in some ways I, and this is probably to plan, you know, the pricing of the, of the three, two, one is, is quite high. And, um, and, and, and it's probably meant as a, of less mass market Speedmaster than the pro the standard pro, which of course makes sense. Yeah. But in many ways, I think like if you're in the market for, uh, for a chronograph right now and, uh, and, and you like Speedmasters, it's, Like what else are you really going to, like, in my case, if I was looking at spending seven to eight grand on a chronograph, I'd be looking at, at the Breitling, the seven, six, five, the AVI and stuff like that. But the appeal is very similar in a Speedmaster in the Speedmaster is not necessarily a throwback model. This is what a modern Speedmaster looks like. They just haven't really changed that much, which is endearing, very similar to the Submariner. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. Yeah. And the Speedmaster has changed even less than the Submariner. I mean, visually it's just arguably, yeah. It's if, if I wear this watch, you know, on an airplane and the guy across the aisle has this brand new one, I mean, we look at each other and think, Oh, you're wearing the exact same watch. And I think to me, that's, that's part of the appeal. I mean, it's, it's kind of like, you know, when the new defender came out, I mean, the purists all cry foul and think, Oh, this is a new discovery. It's not a new defender. They shouldn't put the defender badge on. And I think, you know, we all want our favorites to kind of remain the same and look similar. And I think the, the best of both worlds, is the case with this new Speedmaster, you get this uptick in movement technology that, that coaxial movement, you know, for years, people kind of questioned whether or not this was a worthwhile investment or anything that, that Omega should even bother with. I remember when the first, you know, planet oceans started showing up with that movement in it and they had some teething problems with that 2,500 caliber. Um, and I used to think to myself, like, how does a brand like Omega, like make this their calling card and sell watches to the average consumer going to a, what was then like a mall jeweler and say, well, this, this watch has a coaxial movement in it, blah, blah, blah. And people size glaze over, but they've stuck with it and they've made this their, their thing and, and hats off to them for doing that. And I think to put that in their most iconic watch is, is significant. And I think it's worth, it makes the watch very worthwhile because you get this iconic watch with this state of the art movement that Omega has stuck with and developed and and improved. |
| James Stacey | Yeah. And I think, I think it in many ways that there, it was kind of a weirdness that the brand had gone so hard into coaxial escapements. Yeah. And, and then into the master chronometer spec without addressing it directly in what was arguably their most wide market watch. Like I, I know people who would buy a Speedmaster and don't really know that much about watches, but they know they want a Speedmaster and they know why. It's a moon watch. Um, you can go into a store and have a really nice boutique experience and, and have the coffee or the champagne or whatever, and leave with that big red box. And that's not an experience that you can get with Rolex these days, unless you're a celebrity, maybe. |
| Unknown | Yeah. |
| James Stacey | Right. Yeah. I don't like, I'm sure that there'll be wait lists for these for a little while at some very popular eighties, but I don't, I don't genuinely believe in, and Hey, if there's crow in the oven for me, I'll, I'll eat it when it's ready. But I don't genuinely believe that these are going to be ungettable things. Yeah. I think that this will be a watch that you can walk into a store and go like, I got my promotion. I got my bonus. I sold a car. I didn't need whatever it is. I'm going to treat myself to a Speedmaster. And the funny thing is, is like the Submariner, the Speedmaster is a genre of watch all on its own. You can be a Speedmaster head and not care about watches. You can love the Submariner and not care that much about any of its competition. And that's a really special thing. And to see them take their their watch, the Omega watch in many ways, and put the proper SPAC movement in it, and make this investment that clearly says, like, we're not messing around. Speedy's aren't going anywhere. We still want you to have, we still want the core of it to be this really capable, but kind of lovingly old school, you know, kind of iteration of a sporty chronograph. And while the case or whatever, still I'll try this new one on when I get a chance, for sure. I always want them to be a slightly bit smaller on my wrist. And I genuinely don't know why it's a case shape thing. It's an ergonomics thing outside of that killer watches. They look great on straps. They look great on NATO's. They look great on buns. And now they look great on the stock bracelet. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. I think, you know, your point about, you don't necessarily have to be a watch nerd to, to get a Submariner or appreciate or buy a Submariner or a Speedmaster. I think is true. I think what I like about the Speedmaster is, you know, obviously a Rolex Submariner has this cache of, of having the crown on the dial and some people will just buy it because it's a Rolex and it's, it's the one to get. I think with the Speedmaster, I mean, if you're going to go in for a watch that you have to wind every day, that doesn't have a date, and that's a chronograph that you kind of have to know something about how you work it and why you'd even own it. It gives it that little bit of an edge in my mind, And I'm not saying I'm more of a Speedmaster fan than a Submariner fan, but I think it's one thing I've always liked about it. It just, it takes it down a peg from Submariner and it makes it a bit more of a, an insider kind of watch nerd watch, but one that also appeals to, you know, some people might just buy a Speedmaster because they're, they were a big Apollo fan, you know, a space nerd or maybe a car racing guy or something, but, um, you're not just buying it because it has Omega on the dial. I mean, there's plenty of other, fancier, nicer looking, flashier Omegas to buy than, than this one. And, um, and I don't know that that's one thing I've always liked about it. You know, you, you, if you're across the room from somebody or on an airplane and you see somebody with, if we can remember what that's like, um, and you look across and you see a guy wearing a sub, you might see five guys in the same bar, restaurant, airplane wearing a sub. But if you see like that guy wearing a Speedmaster across, there's almost this like wink, wink, you know, insider sort of club of, of somebody who appreciates that watch for, for maybe it's history or, or for its movement or whatever it is. |
| James Stacey | Yeah. It's, I know that this is a controversial opinion, but I think a lot of good things are ruined by their fans. Yeah. This is, this, this is what I think of for punk music. Uh, this is what I think of for star Wars. Like star Wars is fine. Um, but I I'll never like it as much as the fans. So it's, it's like a gatekeeping thing. It's like, why would I do this? |
| Unknown | Yeah. |
| James Stacey | I don't want to memorize everyone's name and understand why there's some inaccuracies in the most recent movie that don't align with something from 40 years ago. Right. And in many ways, a lot of really fine watch brands can be kind of spoiled by the cohorts that tend to wear them, the people you see on the flights that have X brand. And I'm not going to get into point and fingers in this episode, but there is something nice where like If we just focus on an easy one, the Submariner versus the Speedy, when you see them on the watch of the person sitting next to you on a plane or whatever, if they have the Sub, I've learned because of negative reinforcement over time, it's probably fake. So maybe don't say, hey, I like your Rolex. That's cool. especially if it's the brand new spec. Yeah. And I had that happen to me more than two or three times in Vancouver, where I would, I would comment in not always on, it wasn't like in a bus or, or, or, or a plane or whatever, but I'd be at a watch event or, or, or a hangout, or I'd be at a bar and the person ordering next to me has a gold sub or something. You go like, Hey, that's pretty, that's pretty rad. Cool. And you say the reference and they look at you like, what? And you go, you're, you're a Rolex. And they go, Oh yeah, it's fake. And then they like walk away or they go like, Oh yeah, thanks. Um, my, I, uh, you know, I, I, I, I got lucky at my ad and got, and they had one, right. Or, or they paid way over list for it or whatever. But when you see someone with a speedy, and I'm not saying that, that, you know, the ubiquity of the Submariner means that you're going to have certain types of people who just want it for the cache and maybe buy a fake one. Um, and, and you'll have certain types of people who bought it because it's a great watch, but they don't know anything about it. They barely know it's called a Submariner. Right. They definitely don't know reference numbers. It's not, it's not like they've owned four or five others or, or this is part of a rotation. This is the watch they put on every day. And there's zero shade at that. |
| Unknown | Yeah. |
| James Stacey | None, none, none whatsoever. This is a fine way to appreciate a watch by a great one where forever I get it, but it doesn't mean that our conversation is going to go. It's going to go really well. Uh, when I, when I say, Hey, that's a nice watch or whatever. But when you see someone with a speedy, it's a little bit more of a, of a, of a, a specific sort of club. Yeah. Yeah. You might say, Hey, nice Speedmaster. And they'll go, thanks. I love the Apollo stuff. I don't really know that much about watches. Right. And that's, that's still a great reason to have a Speedmaster. Yeah. And if you go, Hey, nice speedy, is that the, I, I, you know, new bracelet, new model. Right. And they go, yeah, I've got a one four five Oh one, two at home, but I'm worried about beating up the Hesalite or swimming with it or whatever. So I picked this up and then you're like, all right, You're in real deep. Right. Right. And that's the kind of thing. I see this a lot in cars where some, sometimes people are buying cars because that's the car to own at the moment and they don't know anything about it. Um, or, or, or the lineage behind it or, or like why one nine 11 is different than another nine 11 and, and, and these sorts of things. And you see it sometimes with watches, but there's a little bit more, um, there's, there's something a little bit more specific about the Speedmaster fan base, which I like quite a bit. |
| Unknown | Yeah. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. You know, I used to, um, I think I used to be a bit, I've always been a bit of a space nerd, not, not to the extent that some people are. Um, but I think the appeal for the Speedmaster for me, ironically, doesn't have as much to do with the moon landing or anything like that. I love that aspect of it. I think it's a really neat part of their story. Um, but to me, the watch just has this visual starkness, this no nonsense black and white instrument appeal to it that cuts across, you know, you, you look at the Daytona, you look at the, the El Primero and they're very styled watches. They're very, they're beautiful watches. They're the, you know, the Zenith has some color to it. Um, the, the shiny ceramic bezel on both of those, the center polished links and the bracelets, whatever you look at a Speedmaster, whether it's an old one or one from the seventies or one of the new ones. And it's, to me, it just has such a form follows function. to it that it's just so stark. And so like, like you, you imagine a scientist wearing it or, you know, a pilot or, or whatever, an accountant, it doesn't matter. It's just, I love that about it. And I think, I don't know if it was an accident or if it was deliberate. I would hope it's deliberate. I'm guessing it was deliberate. But if, if you look at the dial, there's a perfect triangle that has formed from the tip of the logo. And you trace that down, the symmetry of Omega Speedmaster Professional, that the lines that go down each side of that triangle come to a point and meet at the center point of both of the sub-dials. And it creates this perfect triangle. I mean, everything is just so perfectly designed and so symmetrical on this watch. And the hands are just so legible. And to me, this is like, it's pure Cold War, 60s, 70s, Um, you know, I remember I got a little thrill when I saw Tom Hardy's character, um, Ricky tar, he wears an old Speedmaster in Tinker Taylor, you know, and you don't see it much, but it's on his wrist. And I just think, okay, this is like the perfect watch for that guy in that movie, you know, in that, in that setting. |
| James Stacey | Um, I mean, I, in many ways, I'm going to, I'm saying what you've just said, just in a different way of saying it, what's special about the speedy versus the Daytona and haven't seen the Chronomaster Sport in person, so I don't want to be too unfair. Daytona is not that legible in its current spec. I lose the hour hand really easily, and I've had the white one on wrist for a day, two days at a time. I don't find them to be especially legible. Almost every kind of interactive facet about the watch, from the bezel all the way through to the way that they've done the dial and the markers and stuff, it's very shiny. And I find that a lot of it can get lost in the shininess and you can't lose anything on a speedy dial. There's nothing to lose. Yeah, right. It's all like it's almost like a ones and zeros thing that there's almost no dial because it's all black. Yeah. And you're just looking at measurements kind of superimposed over empty space. Yeah. I mean, as a design, it is one of the watch designs and good for them for not messing it up over the years. And I think new movement, new bracelet, The question, because we do need to get on to finish the show, but the question I would pose to you, Jason, before we leave it to the emails, and maybe when you and I get a chance to actually see these, we can talk more about them. But the question, hypothetical, because you're going to get this in your DMs at some point, Hazelite or Sapphire? |
| Jason Heaton | I will always go for Hazelite. I just like the look of it. There might be a little bit of nostalgic snobbery, I do wish with the new one that they had used the applied logo on both rather than limited only to the Sapphire, but that's a, that's just a minor quibble, but, um, has life for sure for me. Okay. |
| James Stacey | How about you? Uh, I would be for this much, for this much money, I would like to be able to see the movement. Yeah. Oh, I see. And the other thing, the other thing to keep in mind is I harp a lot about how thick watches are. |
| Unknown | Yeah. |
| James Stacey | and the difference between the new... It's a half millimeter. And my guess is, and it's just a guess, I did not confirm this with Omega, it came up in the comments on the post too, so I don't think it's a crazy guess, but my guess is that in not having to now do anti-magnetic protection in the case back, because it's a master chronometer movement, that's probably why the Sapphire is that half mil thinner. Good point. So I would have a really tough time picking, but I love the idea of it being the thinnest one, which is the Sapphire, just a hair over 13, almost 13.2 millimeters. But at 13.6, I like the way the Hesalite, so that the Hesalite, the domed crystal, it's uniformly domed. So you get this sort of glow at the edges. With the Sapphire crystal, you get glow from the re-hut, what people would typically call the chapter ring. which is kind of the staging element between the edge of the dial and the edge and top of the crystal depth or, um, um, bezel depth against the dial. Um, it's the ring around the outer edge of the dial and, and it's, it's quite noticeable when it catches the light on a Sapphire version, whereas that light is blocked by the curvature of the, the crystal on the has light one. So I would kind of want to see him in person, hold each one in my hand and walk around the store a little bit. Cause I would want the one that's less shiny. I love that the, I love that the Hesalite has the brush bracelet. Yeah. I would probably lean towards Hesalite and then just hope that the aftermarket community offers a display case back like they have in the past. Right. That was a very popular Watch You Seek mod when I was first getting into watches. People were buying 3570s with the Hesalite and then you could buy from a retailer, a third party sort of aftermarket display case back for your Hesalite. Oh, yeah. I remember that. Yeah. So that might give you best of both worlds. But otherwise I think that the charm of the Hesalite crystal, that's obvious. This is also not a watch that's like wildly water resistant. So I would treat it like a sports watch, but not like my hardest wearing one. So the Hesalite would be fine. And I love the brushed bracelet, but you could also get the Sapphire and then have that bracelet brushed. Like there's a lot of ways you could go about it. Right. Yeah. Cool watch though. And despite the fact that I'm not a huge speedy guy, I get this. I spent a lot of time writing this piece for, uh, for Hodinkee, uh, covering all the little differences. And I think every time I see a picture on someone's wrist, I go, that's a great looking watch. And then I put it on my own wrist. I'm always like, it's fine. |
| Jason Heaton | Well, it took four speedies for, for one to finally stick with me. I had like a one from 74. I had a couple of more modern ones and I always pass them on, but this one is stuck. I think it's the right, the right vintage and kind of, I don't know, for some reason it just settled. I matured, I guess. I don't know, but yeah, it's, uh, |
| James Stacey | I mean, a 1.45 0.12 is killer. |
| Unknown | Yeah. |
| James Stacey | Yeah. I bored one of those from a buddy back in Vancouver. Greg, if you're watching, I appreciate it very much. And Greg, if you're listening, I appreciate it very much. And it really is, I think, the one that spoke to me the most. But we don't have to keep doing this. I definitely have spoke about that watch in the past, and we've spoke a lot about speedies. What do you say we hit some final notes? Yeah, let's do it. |
| Jason Heaton | I've got one from a listener and kind of an insta-buddy, so to speak. He harks from Bath over in England, Tom Corneal. I know he's a listener of TGN and just an all-around thoughtful, interesting, creative guy. Tom used to be much more into music. He was kind of a singer-songwriter back in, I believe, the 90s, early 2000s, and then uh, kind of went and did the kind of more professional job thing for a number of years. And now he's back, uh, formed a new band, uh, in 2020, which was a tough year to, to do something like that. Uh, he started a band called the young martyrs and, um, you know, Tom kind of promotes them a little bit on his, on his Instagram feed and they have their own feed as well. Um, and I checked out their, their new album from last year and it's, uh, it's good stuff. And, and Tom's, he's got a great voice. He's a good guitarist, the songs are nice, and I just thought I'd give him a little shout-out here. I think it's some good stuff. It's sort of folk-y, rock, sort of contemporary music is kind of where I'd place it. |
| James Stacey | Do you have a fave song I can put in over the audio? |
| Jason Heaton | You know, if I had to pick one, I guess maybe go with Just the End of Summer, which feels like a very inappropriate song for a midwinter episode. Yeah, they're all good. They're all kind of catchy tunes and well played. |
| James Stacey | That's killer. Yeah. So yeah, we've got two final notes and neither of them require you to buy anything at all. So be sure to check out Young Martyrs Band, Tom Corneal. Thanks very much for that. And mine actually comes from Reddit and a user on r slash watches called Godfree, G-O-D-D-F-R-E-E. And he has built an online tool. It's a watch screener is what he calls. And it allows you to search for watches by price, complication, case dimensions, and more. And he's currently working with a database of 17,000 watches. Wow. I think the goal is to expand that. And he's looking for feedback. And I think that we should help him because I think this is a great goal. I think this is something that could be turned into a really interesting, you know, purchasing tool for people who are trying to understand maybe watches that they don't know anything about or blind spots in a given market, maybe. Maybe you didn't know that the speedy was there. You wanted something that has some speedy options, but is a little bit different. I think this is a neat thing. It's still genuinely underway, but I think they've made a kind of interesting tool that is very promising. So I wanted to at least highlight it. If any of you are Reddit users, I will drop the actual link to the thread where Godfrey is asking for feedback. uh, for the post. And if you have a Reddit login or you take a five minutes to log in, maybe play around with the tool and provide some feedback. Because I think if this was strong and offered, even if it was offered, um, paid in an app or something like that, it could still be super helpful. Uh, both for people who work like Jason and I do, but imagine if you were at a retail location, imagine you walked into a Toronto and there was a little screen and you could start saying like, well, I want this and this and this. And they would tell you the three or four counters you could go through to see it. Yeah, this is really cool. Yeah, I think this could be super powerful. Godfrey, on the super slim chance that you hear this, you know, really well done and also kudos for just putting something out into the universe for free. He's simply asking for feedback. So I would encourage people to give it a try. I was able to confuse it a couple times. Like if you go for a doxa and chronograph, it doesn't know the T graph is a chronograph. So that would be my, that would be my feedback. But most of the time it seemed pretty square on what it was picking out. And it's a very simple to use format that I think could be used as the background for a lot more fanciful tools and sort of market deciding things like that. So a cool thing that I was pretty impressed with when I saw it and a neat idea. I think it's the kind of thing a lot of people say that a site needs or someone needs. Right. But I think imagine if just on the back end they were able to work with ADs. |
| Unknown | Yeah. |
| James Stacey | So that you could, you could identify the watch that you want and then it would tell you who to call. And then maybe, maybe dude who's kind enough to make this app, he gets a kickback from the AD. Yeah. Um, I hope this ends up making the guy some money or a living, a side hustle, something like that, because I think something like this could be useful, especially with the expanse of the, of the watch world. |
| Jason Heaton | Right. And if you overlap this with something like watch recon or something that's more of a selling platform. Um, yep. Yeah. I might put a lot of our, our Q and A questions. Yeah, maybe so. Yeah. Cause we get so many questions like for under a certain amount of money and certain features. Yeah. |
| James Stacey | Yeah. This size. I want it to look like this, but I don't have this one. Like, yeah, for sure. And I think all that would be great. And then imagine if, imagine if you went through the search and not only would it link you to the watches page, but maybe to various reviews of the watches to, you know, maybe a watch you seek search of the brand. If you didn't want to read, you know, quote unquote, larger, larger perspective views, like from, put in That's my suggestion. It's called Watch Screener. You can find it specifically at watcharts.com slash screener. That's actually Watch Charts. Watch Charts. Yeah, that's the way that's the problem with my pronunciation. It's Watch Charts, not Watch Arts. So Watch, W-A-T-C-H, then C-H-A-R-T-S dot com slash screener or just hit show notes. We'll put it in there. I'll also link to the Reddit thread. because I think we should give this guy some feedback on a great idea. And yeah, he's up to 17,521 watches. Holy cow. That's great. I like this. I think it's cool. Yeah. Well done on this and I can't wait to see it develop and become more useful over time. |
| Unknown | Amazing. Yeah. |
| Jason Heaton | And I think that's a show. I think so. By the way, I've got to just put out a little, uh, hats off to everybody who, uh, attempted to make the, the coconut roti, um, that. Oh yeah. We keep seeing those on Instagram. I keep seeing photos, people posting photos. I think that's awesome. Uh, I hope everybody's, uh, enjoying those. We, uh, we made a batch last week too. So really cool. |
| James Stacey | Yeah. We're planning on, we're planning to do a run, uh, early February when the diet kind of transitions back to, uh, back to normal. I haven't been doing much in the way of bread recently, but I'm awfully excited for that. I'm really excited to try and figure out how to make it at the cottage for a wider group of people. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Because I think my brother, who's a very talented cook, will really enjoy the simplicity of the recipe and then the simplicity of cooking on a Coleman stove, right? |
| Unknown | Yeah. Yeah. |
| James Stacey | Yeah. Awesome. Well, that's rad. As always, thank you so much for listening. You can hit the show notes via Hodinkee.com or the feed for more details. You can follow us on Instagram at Jason Heaton, at J.E. Stacey, and you can follow the show at The Graynado. If you have any questions for us, please write thegraynado at gmail.com. And of course, please keep sending in your voice memos. We're going to do a Q&A very early on in February. So please get them in if you'd like to hear them. That'll be kind of the first one for this year. And we've got a lot of great questions. So I'm looking forward to that. Please subscribe and review the show wherever you find your podcasts. iTunes is preferable for the reviews and music throughout a siesta by JazzArr via the free music archive. |
| Jason Heaton | And we leave you with this quote from Neil Armstrong who said, mystery creates wonder and wonder is the basis of man's desire to understand. |