The Grey NATO - 135 - Gishani!

Published on Thu, 14 Jan 2021 06:00:09 -0500

Synopsis

This episode features a conversation with Ghoshani, the wife of co-host Jason Heaton. They discuss how Jason and Ghoshani met, her early experiences with watches and photography, and their shared passion for diving and underwater photography of watches. Ghoshani shares stories about diving in various locations like the Maldives, Bonaire, and Sri Lanka. They also talk about new camera gear, a roti recipe, and other interests like badminton.

Links

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Transcript

Speaker
James	Hello and welcome to another episode of The Gray Nado, a loose discussion of travel, diving, driving gear, and most certainly watches. This is episode 135 and we thank you for listening. It's the first show of 2021 and I am joined as ever by my esteemed co-host Jason Heaton and a very special guest.
Jason Heaton	Yeah, this is a pretty cool episode. You know, our last episode in 2020 was our most popular episode of all time. Uh, so thanks to everybody for listening. Um, was a really great way to end the year. And, um, we're kicking off 2020 with, uh, our best foot forward. And, you know, we've had a lot of requests for our guest cohost today. Um, and I'm really pleased that, that we're actually able to do it, uh, even in the same house, uh, Gashani, my wife and, uh, partner in all, all things, uh, is sitting next to me here and she's going to kind of be our, our special guest host today.
Ghoshani	Thanks guys. Very, very excited to be here.
James	We'll go easy on you. Well, normally we would give a guest, um, kind of the main, the main topic of the show. Uh, we didn't really see Ghoshani as, as a normal guest. Uh, Ghoshani, I think Jason and I both kind of feel like, uh, you're closer to a de facto host, uh, at this point than you would be, uh, would be kind of a standard, uh, a guest. So we figured it'd be fun to have you kind of just sit in throughout the whole show, kind of the chit chat, the risk checks, the main topic, the final notes. It'll be a, it'll be a great show. One that I'm, I've been really excited about and thinking about for a lot of the, uh, kind of the holiday break and the push into, uh, into the new year.
Jason Heaton	Yeah. I mean, Gashani's name comes up so often in the show. It, uh, it's probably about time we had her on.
Ghoshani	So sweet. I'll do my best. Thanks for having me, having me guys. This is really cool.
James	Yeah, this will be super fun. So what have you guys, so it's been almost a month, I guess, since we recorded an episode, which is such a luxury to take a bit of a break. But man, things do kind of just back up, especially through the holidays where you're kind of looking for, you're looking for kind of things to do and fill your time and you end up having these activities that you might want to talk about on the show. And what have you guys been up to? How was the last month?
Jason Heaton	Uh, it's been great. Um, you know, it, it does feel like a really long time. I can't remember the last time we took this long of a break. I think we did it a couple of years ago, maybe late summer into the fall that that one year we took a bit of an extended break. But, um, yeah, you know, winter has been pretty mild. We've been getting out and doing a lot of hiking. And I think since we recorded last, we did another one of our kind of Land Rover camping trips, um, which was kind of, I guess you'd call it an early winter camping trip. I hadn't been winter camping since the Boy Scouts when I was a kid. And Ghoshani's first time sleeping out. So, well, out is in the back of a truck.
Ghoshani	As in really cold weather. Oh yeah. As in freezing. Yikes. When the temps dip below 20. Okay. Maybe that's not really extreme for some people, but that was my first.
James	The cold, camping in the cold is a whole different monster. Uh, you know, I've, I've only ever done it a couple of times and, and only really maybe just down to zero, maybe negative one Celsius, like right around freezing. Uh, but yeah, I do, I do remember getting to a point, you know, after the sun went down where I decided I would wear every piece of clothing I had with me. Well, were you guys able to do a fire where you were?
Jason Heaton	Oh yeah, we were. Um, and speaking of clothing, we, we both have, uh, had gotten some new bits of gear that, uh, really made it a little more tolerable and, and to, to be perfectly transparent here. Um, when we're talking about winter camping, we, we do use one of the electric sites at the, the campgrounds that we're going to. So what we do is we, we pull the Land Rover in and then we snake a, an extension cord out the crack in the front window and put like a small space heater in the front, uh, to kind of keep things tolerable. But, uh, you should tell them about your, your incredible mountaineering suit that you're wearing.
Ghoshani	Oh man. So, you know, I'm one of those creature comfort people, you know, I, you know, I like doing things out, uh, you know, in harsh weather, but I like to be comfortable. So it was looking around for something warm, you know, I kind of wanted like a uni suit, something, you know, nice and puffy. And we came across this Eddie Bauer peak 15 suit. Um, I'm not sure if you've heard of it, but this is what, uh, these guys wear on Everest and it is super it's like it's like wearing your sleeping bag but a really thick sleeping bag and it engulfs you so you wear that and you are so toasty warm that you always almost feel smug you know when you're out there and it's cold and boy you feel so good so That that's what saved me actually.
Jason Heaton	Yeah. The temperature rating on this thing, you know, when, when we bought it and Eddie Bauer had it on half price as they do almost everything on their website. Um, but it was still a spendy piece of kit. Um, but, but the temperature rating on this thing, it's hard to believe, it's hard to believe, but they say that the temperature rating on that suit is minus 40 Fahrenheit. In fact, minus 40 is where centigrade and Fahrenheit meet on the scale minus 40. Uh, if you're moving, And oh, yeah. No, sorry. If you're sedentary, if you're just sitting like bivouacked on the side of Everest, it's good rated down to minus 40.
Ghoshani	I don't know about that, though.
Jason Heaton	And get this minus 140 if you're moving moderately. So like if you're climbing. Here we are at, you know, Whitewater State Park in southern Minnesota, and it's about, you know, 25 degrees Fahrenheit outside and Gushani's wearing this mountaineering suit.
Ghoshani	Hey, I have no shame.
James	And was it warm enough?
Ghoshani	Uh, yeah, it was pretty warm. It was pretty comfy. And, uh, I mean, I even slept in it. Frankly, I was so cold at night.
Jason Heaton	Inside a sleeping bag, inside the Peak 15. Yup.
Ghoshani	Yup. Yup. I guess I'm not cut out for Everest.
James	I'm not so good with the cold weather either. I would, I would absolutely opt for a suit like that. Um, I, you know, especially, you know, sleep, sleeping in a vehicle or in a tent or something like that. That's a, that's a, certainly a plus. Uh, I know. And then, uh, Jason, you had been talking about a pair of, um, Who made those mountain hardware insulated pants?
Jason Heaton	Yeah. The ghost whisperer. Um, I picked these up. These are a little less extreme than the, than the peak 15 suit. But, um, I would live in a pair of these. Yeah. A friend of ours has had one of the pair of these for years and boy, it's a game changer. Um, they're down pants. They're pretty slim fitting and pretty lightweight. I would compare them to, I think Patagonia makes like a nano puff pant. These are definitely a little puffier and probably warmer than what a nano puff pant would be. But, Um, looks pretty good, super comfy. I mean, you know, you could almost get away with kind of just wearing them around because they don't look like you're wearing, you know, Michelin man suit. Um, but really, really made a difference on the legs because, you know, I mean, whenever it gets cold, we always tend to bundle up our upper bodies and then, you know, you're wearing like normal, like maybe even fleece line pants or long underwear. But like these, these are, these were seriously helpful. These, these made a big difference for me. So, you know, you can do it. I mean, I think we might, You know, we've got some good snow on the ground now. We might, uh, we might go out for another winter camping trip here if it stays reasonable temperature wise.
Ghoshani	Yeah. I've got my peak 15. Yeah.
James	Yeah. Might as well, you know, get, get the most out of that investment for sure.
Ghoshani	Absolutely. That was an investment.
James	You know, and food, food tastes better. Maybe you sleep. I don't know. In my case, I always find that once I fall asleep in those scenarios, I sleep really well. Yeah. Oh yeah. The cool air on your face is kind of nice. And, and that kind of thing, man, I, I'm, uh, I'm going through full on like, um, camping or motion withdrawal. Like I had the, I had the cottage for the summer and, and, you know, any, anytime you wanted somewhere to go, it was a safe, like second location that you didn't have to question or really do a lot of prep for.
[Affirmative response]	Yeah.
James	Uh, just throw a few things in the Jeep and drive up. It was less than two hours or maybe it's about two hours, you know? And, and now it's really starting to sink in that I've got, you know, depending on how March is in Ontario, which typically it's, it's, it can be gnarly. Um, you know, it, it might be a few more months until I can get back there, you know, in earnest. Um, if it, you know, if it's going to continue to be below zero, uh, overnight that, you know, that, uh, space isn't really ready to, uh, to keep anyone warm. Yeah. Uh, that's some goals for this coming summer, but, uh, I'm, I'm glad that you guys are getting out. And I also saw on, uh, on the gram that you've been getting some skiing in as well.
Jason Heaton	Yeah, this year we bought, um, So we bought a season pass there. There's a ski area near here. It's about half an hour away and it's owned by Epic, which is also owns the Vale resorts and a bunch of others. And this year we decided, you know, it's a good way to get out. It's a reasonably safe, you know, COVID safe activity if you're wearing face covering and gloves and it's just the two of us on the lift. And so we got season passes and we've been trying to get out, you know, at least once a week to kind of get our money's worth and, get some runs in. So we go out, you know, just for a couple hours at a time. It's not the kind of ski area. It's not like Vail where, you know, half an hour is one run on its own.
Ghoshani	Yeah. I mean, there's short runs, but you know, it's still super fun to just go, go out there and, you know, ski the whole, whole, whole area.
James	It's funny. I can, uh, I, I remember, you know, growing up in Ontario where I live now, um, the skiing is probably pretty similar to what it is in your area. You know, you, you know, a run, a run might be, um, Maybe a mile would be great. Would be good. You know? Yeah. They're not huge, but they're still super fun. And I remember my whole life, I was like, man, you know, you hear about skiing in Switzerland or even just on the, on the West coast and, and, and you can go to the top of the thing and then spend the whole day coming down. And, uh, and I remember thinking that sounded amazing. And then the first time I skied in Whistler, I realized like, I'm not even in shape for this. I was in reasonable shape. I was running a lot then and the rest of it, but like, I did not have all the little like hip and knee strength. Oh yeah. Required, required to ski for like 30 minutes at a time. Like it's a, it's a, it's almost a different sport. Like when you're, when you're at a, a, one of these Northeastern places, even, even if you go to like a say Kissing Bridge or any of those spots that like they might have one or two runs that take five or six minutes at speed.
[Affirmative response]	Yeah.
James	That's kind of, that's kind of still where my zone would be. I think you can have a really good time. Um, I think you'd still have a great time at those spots. Uh, certainly there's, there's a class of skier that maybe gets the most out of a whole mountain. Uh, but you know, when Heaton and I, you know, oddly enough, there's the timing of this recording. This is probably when we would have been in Vail, um, with Oris for the, you know, what's arguably the best press trip of the year, um, on our calendar anyways. Um, and, and, and Heaton and I, you know, you and I, Jason, we would kind of go from one slow down area to another, which is probably like a third, a third of one actual run in Vail. Right. And, and you'd, you'd kind of stop and you'd let your knees kind of turn back into bone and sinew and such. And then, and then you'd start off again. And a couple of times where I decided to blow past a couple of those, I'd get to the bottom and just realize like, man, I got to do way more leg work. Uh, cause I, you know, you want to go fast and you want to enjoy it and you want to have these, these, you know, these great, maybe 10, 8, 8, 10, 15 minute, you know, kind of, kind of sessions that feel good, but it's a, it's a lift. And, and for, uh, certainly, uh, it's a, it's a, it's a specific type of fitness. You have to kind of do it by skiing. Oh, yeah.
Ghoshani	Yeah. I mean, I just learned to ski a few years ago. So for me, at least getting out here and just, you know, just doing it over and over again is, you know, it just gives you muscle memory. And, you know, so it's been great for that.
Jason Heaton	Remember our trip to Aspen?
Ghoshani	Oh, yeah. That was a fantastic, fantastic trip when we went out with Richard Mill. to Aspen and we got out one day. And what was that mountain?
Jason Heaton	I can't remember which mountain it was, but it was, it was, it was Gashani's first trip to skiing in the mountains. And certainly, you know, not something we do regularly here, but I remember that one run.
Ghoshani	Oh my gosh, it was so long. It took forever to get down and was beautiful. It was absolutely beautiful, you know?
James	I, uh, I remember the first time that my brother took me skiing and was there's for my birthday a few years ago. And, uh, and my brother's an exceedingly talented skier. Um, and, and so he was doing his best to kind of give me some pointers and, and, you know, teach me to stay on my edges and the rest of it. I was having a real tough time with the rental boots. Uh, my feet, my feet were incredibly sore and I skied as hard as I could all day. And I remember it was like, you know, maybe three in the afternoon. And, and Grant was like, I think this is going to be our last run. You're not really turning very much. I was like, I was like, yep, yep, yep, yep. Let's make it our last one. And, but we were at, we were almost at the top of the mountain. Like we didn't do peak to peak, but we were at the chair under that. And, uh, and we started coming down and I realized that like the only way I could describe the way that my legs felt is kind of like a rubber band that couldn't be pulled tight enough anymore. Yeah. Yeah. So I just, I wasn't really supporting my weight. My hips were doing all the work and it was like my heel was starting to like go numb in the boot. It was definitely that scenario where like, uh, uh, had I pushed even a little bit, I would have had that accident that you always have on the last run. Yeah. Um, but I just very slowly kind of weaseled my way down the hill and, uh, you know, we, we went for a bite to eat.
Ghoshani	It's deceptive for sure.
James	It's such a good, such a good workout.
Jason Heaton	Yeah. I remember I used to read, I used to read, uh, you know, I used to get outside magazine as subscription years ago and they used to always have these like in the November issue or something. There was like the ski fitness issue and I used to think ski fitness. I mean, come on, this isn't a taxing sport. You know, well now I know that man, if you don't do a bunch of squats all summer or something, you're going to be in a lot of pain. Come, come that first trip into January or something.
James	Oh, for sure.
Jason Heaton	So what about you? What, uh, what have you been up to? Uh, in this month that we haven't spoken.
Unknown	Yeah. I mean, I, I, we went outside a bit.
James	We've been doing a little bit more hiking, um, around Ontario. I mean, hiking is a strong term. I don't really know what the general geography, like I've seen it from your images, um, for your area, but the, um, the hiking here, you know, there's no verticality.
[Affirmative response]	Yeah.
James	Um, so you really have to find just a different environment for each hike. Otherwise it gets boring really quickly. You're just kind of walking in a relatively flat space. Yeah. And, and, but it is still, um, while it's maybe not the same physical challenge as say hiking out in Vancouver or something like that, it is still, um, just mentally a really nice thing to get outside on a sunny day. Uh, and, and, and so we, we've been doing a little bit of hiking and, and I still really struggle with, uh, with the feeling like, do I need a mask right now? Do I not, when you're passing people on the trail, there's some like anxiety that, that kind of stays tied in. Yeah. To that, but I'm, I'm working my way through that. Other than that, I mean, I, I spent a lot of the, a lot of the, the holidays like inside with my kids or just kind of tinkering with stuff here. I got back into, uh, uh, we'll call it Craigslist audiophile, the Craigslist audiophile world. Uh, to be clear, nothing that I bought is actually audiophile grade. Um, but I, I got this, um, I got a, um, I got two, I got lucky twice over the holidays and I find that You almost have to treat, and I say Craigslist because it's easier for everyone listening to understand, but the actual service I'm using for those from, say, the eastern half of Canada is called Kijiji, K-I-J-I-J-I. And it's basically a more featureful Craigslist. And it's very popular in Ontario. It wasn't a thing in Vancouver, so I think it's kind of regional. And I see results from Calgary and Winnipeg and places like that. So it's at least moving West anyways. Um, uh, I got lucky with, um, a pair of these weird, uh, three direction or a 360 degree, like omni-directional, uh, speakers from, I think the late sixties. Wow. Uh, they're, they're called the Viking X four 72s. I'll put a photo of them in the show notes. Uh, they were sold by Eaton's, which was, uh, uh, you know, a home, a home good and, and, uh, kind of a department store in Canada. And, uh, I don't think Eaton's was in the States, were they?
Jason Heaton	Doesn't ring a bell. No.
James	Yeah. So this would be like a, um, Sears, Sears competitor, something like that. Sure. Um, and so they were retailed by, by Eaton's back in the day and, and I found them and, and I bought them exclusively because they're gorgeous. They're these, um, nice kind of, uh, teak, uh, at least teak effect. I don't, they're actually teak, um, little squares. There may be, um, maybe 10 inch cubes basically. And then there's little, uh, little stands that hold the top on and the speaker basically fires upwards into a cone. Oh, okay. So the idea is, I mean, originally you could put them anywhere in your room. You could put them on a living room on like on a corner table and you could put another one on a bookshelf. They didn't have to be against a wall or on a stand or the idea is they kind of have this 360 degree space. And so I bought them assuming that I would just replace the drivers inside them with something a bit more modern.
[No speaker identified]	Hmm.
James	And I got them home and opened them up. They're exceedingly rudimentary. It's a single speaker, so there's no crossover. It's like wiring a speaker into a car door. It's like super simple stuff. But somebody in the past had wired in a decent pair of Pioneer speakers. Oh, wow. And so I paid $35 for these. And all I did was they'd done a bad job kind of soldering the actual speaker connection. So I replaced the wire with some better wire and wired it up to my NAD, an older amp that I've got here. And they sound great. I'm like, I was really impressed with them, way better than I expected. I thought they would sound like a radio from the sixties. And so now I've moved them into the bedroom and I have them cross-wired with a small subwoofer to kind of fill in some of the parts that are lacking. And I'm not even sure I'm going to bother buying a better drivers for them. I mean, they sound great. So I'm just kind of enjoying them as they are. They're really nice. They just look, Awesome.
Jason Heaton	Well, you sent me a picture and I mean, is the name Viking conjures up Scandinavian design and they kind of look like that. Are they from a Nordic country or is that just a coincidence?
James	I don't, I don't know enough about them to know like who designed them or why. I mean, it's all mid century, so it's all inspired from that part of the world.
[Affirmative response]	Yeah.
James	Um, and my guess is being eaten and someone listening may even remember when these speakers were out or, or, or had had a pair of their parents had a pair or something like that. But my assumption, and it may be an unfair assumption, I'm happy to be, uh, convinced otherwise, my assumption is being Eaton's, it might've been a sort of knockoff. Yeah. They may have, they may have looked at something made by Bang and Olufsen or, or name or, or, you know, something from, from Europe and, and made a smaller, more accessible version that would still make sense in a, in a modern, you know, a modern sixties living room. Oh yeah. Um, but for the look, I do like a weird looking speaker. Um, and these don't even look like speakers. They actually don't really look like anything.
[Affirmative response]	Yeah.
James	And then the, the other one was actually just a couple of days ago. I, again, I, I just kind of, I'm on the lookout for oddball stuff. And I found a guy selling a very strange subwoofer, which is a, he says it's about 20 years old. I can't quite figure it out. That's probably not untrue, but it's a, it's called a Denon DSW three L and it's, um, it's essentially a triangular subwoofer. Um, it's shaped like a wedge kind of sitting up on its side and it's on little plinths. to put a gap between the base and the firing, like where the actual subwoofer driver is. It's a, it's a very strange thing. Um, and, and, and I got that it was also very cheap. I don't think many other people wanted it. Um, but I, I wired that in with the caps, which is kind of the main spot where I would sit and listen to music and have really enjoyed kind of spending a half hour, an hour there in the evening. Um, and they say it sounds really, really good. So, so far I'm, I'm two for two on weirdo, uh, weirdo, uh, kind of oddball speakers that end up sounding certainly good enough to sit in and enjoy.
Ghoshani	Oh, you're really into speakers, James. How many have you accumulated?
James	Currently? I'm, I'm, you know, I'm keeping, I'm keeping myself pretty much under control. I only have one set of speakers that aren't currently in use, uh, which I think is pretty good. I bought, I got another great deal right at the start of the quarantine on a, on a pair of wharf dales, um, that I just don't have a spot for in the house currently, but I think they're really also kind of beautiful and simple and, and, and, They can be powered by just about anything. So I'll probably hang on to them. They're not worth enough to sell either, but it has been a, a, a nice hobby because it, it kind of rewards time inside. Uh, what, you know, once you have the bits and you get to sit down and listen to a song and it's all, it's, it's like, and it's like watches too, where it's nice to, um, Jason has said this on past episodes where it's nice not to be the expert.
[Affirmative response]	Yeah.
James	Like I get to approach all of this as like, I have no idea what I'm doing. I'm just having fun. You know, these Vikings could be the equivalent of buying of the first, you know, two or three Invictus I bought when I first got into watches. They might be, you know, a complete joke and purists might be, you know, laughing that I appreciate their sound, but the truth is, it just makes me happy. Like it's a little something to do. It gives me an excuse to get out of the house.
Ghoshani	It's also like, I said, it's another rabbit hole to go down.
James	Oh yeah. It's another rabbit hole. And I've also found that like generally everybody on Kijiji or Craigslist seems to be on the same page about like, dealing with. So like people have masks and they just put things in the back of your car and you can eat, transfer the money. And it's been, uh, it's been super simple and it's nice to have something that isn't Instagram or, you know, Reddit or, or, or Facebook or whatever, to just sit and scroll and not feel great.
Jason Heaton	Starting to feel a little old fashioned now to, to transact that way.
James	Isn't it a little bit? Yeah, it does. It does feel weird. I mean, it's definitely feels weird to go into a store now, but I think I've been saying that since, um, since probably like June or July.
Jason Heaton	Yeah. Yeah. So speaking of music, I, I, you might've caught this on Instagram. I, um, uh, I was playing just sort of some random, I guess now it's not Google music. It's YouTube music. I was, I had a playlist going and one of the songs that came up was a fleet Foxes. And I thought of you, it was a, I think it was called blue Ridge mountain, or maybe that's the album name.
James	Um, it, it probably mentions the blue Ridge mountains. Okay. Uh, but I, I think you were listening to, um, to their, their first album.
[Affirmative response]	Okay. Okay.
James	Fantastic. And definitely my favorite band. And here's the one thing that really came up for me during the month that we took off, where I felt like, oh, this is a final note, but I'm going to run out of time. Yeah. Because it actually expired. But Robin Pecknold, who's the lead singer of the Fleet Foxes, he did. So they made what I believe to be the best album of 2020. And it's called Shore. And they released it on the summer solstice.
[No speaker identified]	Oh.
James	right at the solstice's peak. It was 6 p.m. or whatever. Wow. And then for the winter solstice, he did a video, a streaming paid video presentation. I think, I think I paid $20 for the privilege. I watched it probably eight or nine times. So that was great value as far as I'm concerned. But he did a, it was in a, in a cathedral and he did a song with like a socially distanced choir. Wow. And then, and then he does several, Fleet Fox's songs, Just Him and a Guitar. In this incredible cathedral, you can hear all the room sound. It's beautifully recorded. Even just for streaming, I was really impressed by what they were able to pull off. But unfortunately, I think it started on whatever the solstice was, the 20th or the 21st, I guess. And it only was available for viewing until the end of the year. Um, and they're, they're planning to do something with the audio. He's talked about it a little bit on his Instagram. So I think we'll end up being able to see it and maybe it'll show up on Spotify and title and the rest, or maybe you'll have to buy it separately. I don't know. Either way, really long story on the short side is one, I'm sorry that I, you know, I put it on my Instagram several times. So I hope people who really like fleet Foxes, but for whatever reason, aren't following them directly had a chance to see it. Um, I was blown away by it. I mean, I, like I said, I watched it several times.
[No speaker identified]	Hmm.
James	Um, a really, really beautiful performance and, uh, and a nice, uh, a couple of the, uh, our, our subtle remixes of, of some really big fleet Fox's songs from earlier, earlier albums. Uh, just, uh, just absolutely fantastic stuff. Uh, a great, a great way to, uh, to the end of the year, as far as music goes. Oh, nice. Wow. So how about, um, and any, any standout Christmas gifts given or received?
Jason Heaton	You know, we, Kind of didn't do great gifts this year. I mean, we, we, we kind of, uh, so we are, my folks live about 30 minutes from here and we, all of us decided, and I know this is a controversial way to go about things, but we all got a COVID tests like the day before, a couple of days before, and then went out and, and met up with them and, um, and exchange gifts with them. And, uh, so, you know, just some little niceties and here and there, but we didn't really exchange gifts. We haven't really done that a few years, but, uh, Um, I think the peak 15 was, uh, and getting a Land Rover defender and the Land Rover.
James	Yeah, I suppose. So that, that makes sense for sure.
Ghoshani	On Christmas day, but yeah, close enough. Yeah. Yeah.
James	Yeah. That's fair. That's fair. I, um, I actually, I can't, there's three things I wanted to chat about and they can all be quick. Cause I think people probably seen a lot of them or have heard about them. First of all, uh, one is, is directed right back at you, Jason, uh, years ago, you told me that you thought the, the nano puff vest was possibly better than the jacket.
Ghoshani	Oh yeah.
Unknown	Love it. Living it.
James	And I remember thinking like, yeah, but how could the vest be better than the jacket? But, but I got one for Christmas. Yeah. Uh, it was, it was, uh, like a team gift from Hodinkee and it's just a gray nano puff, like exactly the same as the gray jacket I have. Yeah. But What, what I did, what I didn't give credit. And I think you may be assumed I would, I would understand when you made that statement is that the vest is way is super good inside when you wouldn't wear the jacket. Cause it'd be too hot. Oh, right. Yeah. So now, now I just walk around and if I want to go outside and get to the Jeep, I got a vest on. If I want to go pick something up or run a quick errand, I don't have to dig out a jacket. It's not quite cold enough here to matter. It's awesome. I really like it. It's it's it's you're just, you get too, you got a few pockets and uh, I'm, I'm, I'm really impressed with that. We, we, couldn't possibly talk more about nano puff products. Uh, I promise Patagonia does not sponsor. They have no idea who we are still the, one of the best companies in the world. And, uh, and whether you go with their Vesta, I think it's worth every penny or you go with, um, um, maybe a little bit more of a budget focus option. Like, um, the, the latest stuff from Eddie Bauer, they've been running some wild sales lately, like 60% off sale. Like I, I hope, I hope Eddie Bauer is still going to be around. in a year or two, right?
[Affirmative response]	Yeah.
James	Um, these kinds of sales practices typically aren't a great sign.
Jason Heaton	Um, but I think, I think we've been predicting their demise for like four years now though.
James	Yeah. But I think in that time they may have been in bankruptcy twice. I'm not, I'm not sure they've been through it a few times. I think it's, it hasn't always been an easy run for them, but they make a great vest as well. If you want the flexibility for this time of year, definitely for spring and fall. Um, I'm, I'm a convert, uh, It's, it's, it's nice to wear around. I also like that I can wear it with something that like pajama pants that may not have pockets. Yeah. And now I have pockets for my phone or, or, or whatever. Yeah. Uh, the other one that stands out and this is another one that's like, should be super obvious, but it's always been on my radar and I never pulled the trigger personally as my parents bought me a leather man and I absolutely adore it. Suddenly like now I just leave it on my desk and I didn't realize how often I was getting up to pull a tool out of my tool drawer to fix one little thing.
[Affirmative response]	Yeah.
James	And you can just wing this thing out. It's, it's the all metal one. It's, I think it's called the, just the normal wingman. I don't think it's the special one or, or has a, uh, a special coating. Uh, you definitely couldn't fly with it as a big knife as a big pair of scissors as a saw. Um, but otherwise super, super handy, uh, really nicely made and, and something that like now I look and I go like, why, why haven't I had one of these since I was like seven or eight years old?
[Affirmative response]	Yeah.
James	Cause I think they've been making the wingman for about that long. Um, and, and yeah, I was super impressed if you're on, if you're on the fence for something like that, uh, pull the trigger really good. Um, oh, and then finally I got, um, I don't think we spoke about this on the show. Um, but I have spoken about my tango bag from the observer collection, Robert Spangles company. Well, he made a wallet that matches the whole kind of system of bags that he has. It's called the whiskey wallet. And, uh, and I got that for Christmas and, uh, I, I absolutely love it. It's this really weird kind of shape. That's very specific in how it's used. Um, but I've been super impressed again, just like with the bag, he's making things that like other people's just simply aren't making. And if it's, if it's kind of in your zone, I find it to be really impressive. I'm, I'm super happy with mine. It's, it's a nice kind of slim wallet, but it has this really interesting kind of, um, sleeve that you can put change in, huh? So if you're in a city that requires changes, a change or coins or, or that kind of thing, maybe for transit, you have access to it without having like the cumbersome element of a zipper, or it's just the kind of a Tyvek or Dyneema thin channel of, of fabric that you can kind of pour coins out of. It's really clever. Yeah. And it, it, it has a little piece of shock cord that wraps around it. So if you want to tuck your sunglasses or your keys into it, You can, uh, I've been really impressed. I mean, Robert makes some of my most favorite stuff and it's nice to have the bag and the wallet kind of match. And, and, uh, I'm, I'm thrilled to thrilled to have it, uh, you know, not, not really using my wallet as much as I have in the past these days, but it's, uh, it's, it's a cool piece. And, and you could see that I kind of had this like list going of things that I didn't want to miss our chance to talk about. Um, you know, this is what you get for taking a month off and kind of a month where It's like withdrawal where these things go. So I apologize. I've been rambling for a, for some time, but those are a few things that stood out for me.
Ghoshani	You know, I mean, talking about Eddie Bauer, one of the things I love about Eddie Bauer is getting these flannel line jeans. Oh yeah. I get them every year and they are just perfect. Just perfect for winter. And I wear them all the time. I mean, I, I mean, I wear them three, three seasons. of the year pretty much. And you can get not just flat on line jeans, you get, now you get, well, I don't know what it is now, but I've got into like a polar fleece lined, uh, what do you call these? Like, Oh, the joggers.
Jason Heaton	You know, the guide pants, James, the.
James	Oh yeah. The guide pro lined are awesome.
Jason Heaton	Guide pro pants are just like winter hiking.
James	Yeah. I was on their site the other day and, and I found that they're, they actually make a jogger, like essentially sweat pants that are lined.
Ghoshani	Yes.
James	And they were, they were $18 on the sale and, and I put them in my cart and then, you know, got a Slack message or something and, and went and did something else and came back and they were sold out, but they look good. I mean, uh, I've, I've got a pair of, I think I've talked about them on the show, but I'm, I'm wearing them now. The, uh, Uniqlo makes like shearling lined sweatpants, which like I, I, you know, I struggle to feel okay wearing them outside the house cause they're, they're just gray track pants. Uh, but they're, they're super comfortable. They borderline on too warm, which makes them probably pretty warm for someone like me. And, uh, and yeah, I, I definitely, yeah, a line lined pants. I think that's, that's kind of the current theme of the show. Yeah. Insulated pants, uh, is, uh, is, is the way to save. So sure. I haven't, I have a couple of pairs of the guide pros, um, for hiking, but I never bought a pair of the, uh, the aligned ones. That's probably, um, Not a bad idea for a continued hiking this time of year.
Jason Heaton	Yeah, exactly. You know, the other, uh, the other kind of bit of news here or fun products, I guess, if you call it, uh, uh, that borders a bit on a self-promotion. So I, I hesitate to bring it up as the, the Heaton bund watch strap that they released on the Hodinkee shop. So this was, uh, uh, just for some background and I, I, you know, I'm not doing this to, to necessarily plug it, but, uh, it was a, It was a fun project and it was a very long time in development. Um, you know, this, uh, local friend of mine who by coincidence happens to be a, one of the who Nikki shops, uh, strap partners, um, were good friends. In fact, he bought my old alpha Romeo spider years ago. Um, uh, he has made in very small runs, these, these leather bone straps, not, you know, I've, people have seen them in my photos for years and people are always like, where did you get those? Where did you get those? Where did you get those? I remember, you know, talking to the guys from the Houdinki shop boy, over a year ago saying, you know, you guys really need to start carrying these because I don't know where to, where to send people, um, when they asked where I got this. And so, um, finally, I guess they, they hooked up with, with this friend of mine and, and, um, to, to get these in the shop. And I told them, you know, go for it. I don't want anything out of it, but, uh, you've got to call it the Heaton. So that, that's kind of how that came about.
James	I like it.
Jason Heaton	And Ghoshani and I were asked to do some of the photography for, for the straps. And so I got a bundle of these straps in different colors and sizes and put them on all, all my watches and we did it, went out and did a kind of a fun couple of photo shoots over the past couple of months.
Ghoshani	Yeah, that was a fun, fun experiment. Yeah.
Jason Heaton	But, uh, yeah, I mean, bone straps are an acquired taste. I know that you're, you still haven't warmed up to them, but I, I just, we're both wearing watches with, with bone straps.
Ghoshani	They're just so comfortable. And for me, you know, I have such small wrists, so if I can find one that is, you know, fits me well and, um, you know, it, you know, and bone straps seem to be the ones that, I don't know, I find very comfortable.
Jason Heaton	Yeah. Especially in the cold, they kind of keep the, metal off your skin. I mean, now I'm just justifying them, but, uh, you know, there there's a, there's a certain look to them, I guess. Um, it's, it's a bit seventies, but you know, Hey, that's, that's my era.
James	So, yeah, you, you sent me a couple of Jason. I have, um, and I've been wearing the straps from the, and not the pad. Yeah. Right. Uh, because I, you sent me a blue, uh, quarter van.
[Affirmative response]	Yeah.
James	uh, shell cordovan one, which is, is now part of that collection. And it's really beautiful. And, and yeah, I'm not a, a bond guy, but I've also learned that they're all that a lot of the things that I say, I'm not an X guy. If I give it a try, you can usually find some merit to why it's good, especially if it's something that you like Jason. So here's my 2021, I'll give buns a try. I'll even put it on my Instagram and take the heat. Uh, I can eat some bun to crow if it's out there, that's fine. No, no problem at all. But I have a couple here. I'll throw a, probably the Aqua star would be the best match. It's a nice weighty sort of piece that kind of fits in the same vibe. So it'll either be that or, or one of the docks is, but I'll, I'll give it a run sometime in the next little while. Um, I, I've actually struggled like to be wearing much of a watch, uh, much of a watch this year. Um, you know, there's not that much going on, but, uh, we'll get, we'll get to what we've got in, uh, in a risk check in just a moment. And we don't have forever with, uh, with Kashani. So we will, we can keep moving. I do want to say one small teaser for those of you who are listening to this on day one. Um, if you've been waiting for an option to buy, what we've always said was probably either our favorite or one of our most favorite NATO's stay tuned to the Hodinkee shop. Um, I think that happens the same day that this episode comes out. Um, but a NATO strap that was previously not easy to find, should be retailed via Hodinkee in some metric anyways. I haven't quite seen what the offering is, but it's something that I'm still getting a DM a day about where to get Toxic or UTE Nados. Oh, wow. So this is something that I think has been the better part of, you know, more than a year in the making. And I asked for permission to tease it on the show because I think this is great for Terry and everyone else. So if you've been waiting to get a great Nado, Thankfully, you can finally do a Vaihodinki. I've never been a huge fan of the Nados they carried previously, the nylon ones anyways. The leather ones are incredible. Yeah. But the nylon ones just felt like plastic to me, whereas the toxic UTA, UTEs, say it how you want, they have more of a fabric feel that we like. So that's a little teaser. I think by the time this episode comes out, it'll be within a few hours. So if you're listening to it immediately, Show them some love if you like. And if you're not in the world for a NATO, then maybe a heat and bund. Either way, you can't go wrong. It's not an ad. We don't have an advertising partner for this episode. Jason and I are actually kind of rethinking the way that we approach ads and the way that they sound and all that kind of stuff. So more on that in the future. It's not a huge concern. This show is brought to you by Ghashani's schedule and kindness to come on.
Jason Heaton	Should we jump into a risk check since we were sort of at that good segue point?
James	Absolutely. Gushani, you want to go first?
Ghoshani	Sure. So I'm wearing Jason's Blancpain Batcave. Oh yeah. Man, it is such a beautiful watch. And frankly, I think it looks better on me.
James	I can't disagree with that for sure.
Jason Heaton	And she's wearing it on a black, black cordovan bun strap. And yeah, it looks, it looks the business. I mean, it, you know, it's a 38 millimeter watch. So I would argue that it does look better on her, but, I seldom see that thing anymore.
Unknown	I got lucky. Jason, was that the last time that we hung out?
Jason Heaton	Oh man. Was that at the Explorers Club in New York?
James	That was when I saw it for sure. I feel like I saw you after that, but maybe I didn't. Maybe the next time was going to be on the 18th of March.
Jason Heaton	Yeah. I think you're right.
James	Memories really slipping when every day is basically identical. Hard to find any context in there, but yeah. What a fantastic watch. Arguably perfect as far as like a modern, expression of a vintage sort of ethos. Yeah. And, uh, yeah, I love that watch. A great, great pic of Shani. And I'm, I, it's, it's not overpowered by all that leather. It looks, it looks the, it looks the business on the, on the part.
Ghoshani	I think so. And since I have small wrists, you know, it fits me perfectly too.
James	That's great.
Ghoshani	Yeah.
Jason Heaton	There's some mutual meaning for it. Cause we, we, we had a hand in the, in the photo shoot that went with the launch of that one. Um, what it was at a couple of years ago now. So it was, uh, It was a really cool surprise to get that. And then the fact that it fits both of us was a real bonus. So it's great.
James	Oh, a huge plus for sure. Yeah. Yeah. That's like now when I pick watches, I try and consider like what either of my girls maybe want to wear them in the future.
[Affirmative response]	Yeah.
James	Yeah. And you know, that's a tough needle to thread, but it's still, it is kind of nice to know that it's not just me. Right. Which is kind of cool. So Jason, what have you got on?
Jason Heaton	Well, I've been kind of a bit promiscuous with watches over the past few weeks, I'm just sort of, I don't know what you'd call it, uh, sort of, uh, general overall sort of apathy towards watches like you, although I still wear them, but I, I might, I'll like switch a couple of times a day and be sort of bored with ones. And, uh, then yesterday you had sent me a photo of, of your black dial deep star and, uh, I immediately had to go put mine on. I just, I wear it so often. It's just such a perfect, perfect watch. Um, so I've got the gray dial one, so I'm, I'm wearing that one again. It, uh, it's just, It's just a great watch. It looks good. And I love the chronograph and you know, just, uh, it's, it's super comfy even though it's a bigger watch.
James	Yeah. That's what I've been wearing when I leave the house. And when I went hiking the day I slept on that, uh, Prometheus design compass that you, uh, you gave me for Christmas. Thanks again for that. Yeah. And you know, threw that on over, uh, over the NATO strap and it was, it was good for a hike and, and actually a little bit useful in, uh, in the area we were hiking. Yeah. And, uh, the, yeah, the, the, The Aquastar, I've had a nice time with it in the last couple of days because Hodinkee wanted me to write this kind of an explanation of how to take better watch photos without buying a better camera.
[Affirmative response]	Yeah.
James	And this can kind of lead us into a grander discussion about Ghoshani's work, taking pictures of watches. But they wanted, you know, how to take better photos without buying a new camera, which I think is a great thing. A lot of people have a decent camera in their phone or a camera lying around at home. that's more than capable of taking a shot for Instagram. Yeah. Um, so I, I put that together and I, I wanted to make sure, you know, the easy thing to do would have been to have just shot the Rolex, the Explorer two. Yeah. Uh, which is the watch I'm wearing now for my, uh, wrist check. But, uh, because you know, the white dial, it's also a Rolex. So the post would probably be more popular just based on the, uh, assets. Um, but I think the Aqua star is prettier for one and two, it's, it's, it's more challenging to shoot. So if I can show, You know, it has a domed crystal, has a dark dial, neither of which the Explorer 2 has, which makes it a lot easier to shoot. You're not seeing reflections of yourself and the rest of it. So that post would have come out a couple of days ago. So if you, if you're, if you're, it's definitely a post designed for entry level shooters, not for people who have been endeavoring to get better on their own, but more of an impetus to say like what you already have at home, along with some craft supplies. is probably all that you need to take better photos. Uh, and, and I stand by that and I hope people get some value out of it. And, and, you know, if the post is popular, maybe we do a, a watch shooting 201 and go into a little bit more theory and, and that kind of stuff. But, uh, yeah, it's, uh, it's, it's a fun watch and, and it was fun to, to kind of use, you know, cause it has that high polished bezel, which is difficult to photograph. It has the dome crystal, which is difficult to photograph and, and that kind of stuff. So it was, it was good for that. And then in editing the photos, I really just like you just kind of like editing photos of any watch. I tend to kind of refall in love with a watch. Yeah. But definitely in this case, I mean, it's just I think it's just just so so good. Yeah. Which is largely how I feel about about my Explorer 2. There's not a lot left to say about the Explorer 2. I hadn't worn it in a little while because, of course, we're not traveling. So I threw it back on the Oyster and I've had it on for a day or two. And this is still, for me, the pinnacle modern Rolex sports watch. Um, yeah, I'm so thrilled to have been able to get one when I could afford one. Cause I wouldn't buy one now, certainly. And, uh, and I, you know, I don't think it's going anywhere. I still really, I still really get a, get a buzz from, uh, from wearing it and enjoying it. And I, I can't wait to get some use out of the GMT function, hopefully this year.
Jason Heaton	Oh man. Yeah. Fingers crossed. Geez.
James	Okay, so with risk check out of the way, no advertiser, we get to get right to the meat and potatoes of the episode. And that's kind of a more in-depth chat with Ghoshani about her history in watches and photography and with Jason and the rest of it. So I'm thrilled. I'm sure I've heard some of these stories, but I'm really excited to hear a couple of new ones. And yeah, so why don't, Jason, why don't you take it away?
Jason Heaton	Yeah. So, you know, um, like, as you said, we've talked about a few times on the show quite a few times, and I've probably told certain stories, uh, more than once here, but, you know, just to kind of reiterate how we met, it was, uh, gosh, it was in the mid nineties. And I was working as a technical writer for a packaging machinery company, writing manuals. And we had this manual that went with all of the maintenance manuals for this machinery. It was called the spare parts catalog. And it was, really didn't amount to writing, it amounted to compiling the entire bill of materials of every little nut and bolt and screw and everything that went on these machines into a big catalog so that customers could order new parts. And it was a very automated process and we needed a programmer to come in and work out this process by which the bill of materials from the engineering side could be formatted into this catalog. Gishani came in as a, just a contractor and we overlapped there for gosh, a month or two. And I trained her in. Um, so it was, it was really kind of one of those workplace, I don't know if you'd call it romance. It was a bit of a slow burn. You know, we just sort of would have lunch together and, and hang out and I helped her. She had an old Audi that was constantly breaking down. So I was always giving her advice and picking her up from the garage and that sort of thing.
Ghoshani	Well, I had just come up from, I had graduated from Luther College and I was sort of looking for a job. Luther is in Decorah, Iowa. I don't know if you have any listeners from there, but it's a beautiful little town. Great college, by the way. I had a great time there, but there wasn't a lot of opportunity for work after I graduated and I had graduated in sort of the IT sphere. And I was not sure what I wanted, but I was kind of looking for something in that area. And, uh, so, you know, I came up to the Twin Cities. I have a, I had a friend who let me crash in her pad and I was looking for work and this sort of came up and I thought, Hey, you know, anything is great right now. So I took it. And, uh, yeah, I remember the first, first day that I was there and, uh, uh, you know, I was introduced to Jason. his boss told me that I, you know, Jason would train me in. And I, I remember that so vividly because I looked at this guy and I was like, this guy looks like he's out of like a, you know, out of a British vintage catalog or something. You know, he, he was, he, he was wearing these like corduroy pants and he had like a, what do you call those? Not a three piece suit kind of thing, but a vest.
Jason Heaton	Waistcoat or something.
Ghoshani	Yeah. I mean, he looked so different, you know? And I was like, who is this guy? And you know, and the more, more I worked with him, I was, the more I was intrigued because he was so different.
Jason Heaton	And the thing about Ghoshani back then too was, um, she was a bit of a, um, uh, her, her sense of fashion was a little, different than most people too. She, she wore like a woman's suit with Birkenstock sandals, drove this like mid eighties Audi 5,000, which was a really cool car, but incredibly problematic. And, um, but, uh, you know, going back to watches, I mean, you know, this was before I really got into watches. It was kind of thought they were cool, you know, in a certain way, certainly not to the extent that I am now, but she, she was wearing this wenger Swiss army, watch. I think we think it had a white dial and it was on like this kind of tattered leather strap. And I thought, well, that's, you know, it was kind of a bigger watch for, for a woman. And, and it was intriguing. It was, it was really cool. So I think we sort of bonded over our weird, weird taste in, in quirky cars and watches and that sort of thing.
Ghoshani	Oh yeah. I mean, at that time, you know, I had a limited wardrobe and I remember my friend who let me crash on a pad, kind of helped me pick out some items, but cause everything was just slightly too big for me. So I had a suit, but it was slightly too big. I didn't quite have shoes. So I had Birkenstocks, which believe me were the most comfortable shoes and I still wear them today. And I was so proud of them, but they didn't quite go together. But, and, and I was growing my hair. So I had very floppy curly hair. And this is kind of how I, you know, first met Jason.
Jason Heaton	And if you, if you, if you haven't picked up on her, decidedly non-Iowa accent. Uh, we should probably just stay for the record that Ghoshani's, uh, home country was, uh, Sri Lanka. So, um.
James	And Ghoshani, how old were you when you moved to the States?
Ghoshani	Uh, I think I was 19 when I came here.
James	So it was for school then?
Ghoshani	Yeah. Yeah. I, I, yeah. Yeah. I had, um, applied to several colleges and I was accepted in several places. Uh, one of them was, uh, barred in New York, but my parents said, No way can you go to New York. That's a very dangerous place. And then somebody told her, Iowa is great. It's very quiet, safe. And so that's where I ended up.
Jason Heaton	Lucky for me, yeah.
James	Isn't it funny how that's how things, like it's all those little chess moves in someone's life and then you get those things that come together. I'm fine. I could sit and listen to this for a long time. I'm such a fan of you two. I'm trying to think of the easiest, like what, um, what came first? Was it watches or photography in terms of a general interest?
Ghoshani	Watches probably. Well, I don't know.
Jason Heaton	Well, we, it sort of all came together at the same time, right? Because of the gear patrol days.
Ghoshani	Yeah. Right. Uh, I think, I think by that time we, I mean, we both really enjoyed watches because I remember Jason accompanied me to this mall shop to get one of my first watches here. Which was a... It was a Victorinox. Victorinox.
Jason Heaton	So it was an upgrade from the Wenger.
Ghoshani	Oh, it was a, it was $125. And I agonized over that purchase because it was over a hundred bucks. And finally I took Jason there because I was like, what do you think? Do you think this is, I should get this, you know? And I remember getting that. So, you know, we, we both always wore watches. So that, that was definitely a sort of a interest we shared. And then, sort of Gear Patrol, when Gear Patrol started, um, the, the photography sort of came with it because, you know, Jason at the time was doing all these gear reviews and we needed photos with it. So, you know, I started just kind of shooting, just, you know, trying things out and wasn't anything serious at the time, you know, and we would come up with these elaborate stories. And that was kind of the fun thing we do, you know, it would be a, it would be a flask, let's say that we had to photograph and we'd say, okay, let's like, you know, take this in the woods and you know, Jason's very good at stories. So he, he, he'd come up with this kind of facial narrative or something. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So this is what it's like. And we'd just kind of go act it out.
Jason Heaton	That one thing led to another. And then I started doing the watch stuff for, for gear patrol, which, you know, we were both kind of into watches anyway, and it was a nice segue. And then,
Ghoshani	And then you learned to dive.
Jason Heaton	Then it went into the diving with the watches, which added another layer of interest and complexity. And then, you know, I still needed someone to take the photos of me wearing the watch.
Unknown	Yeah.
James	Well, the thing that stands out to me and that I'm finding to be like incredibly sweet is like, so you guys kind of embarked on this together, the way that these two kind of interests might align, and then were essentially set up and partnered up and ready to be able to do something like diving where, you know, I've done a little bit of dive photography where I'm trying to take a picture of my own watch. It's hopeless.
[No speaker identified]	It's tough to do that.
James	You really need, it really does kind of have to be a two person thing. Otherwise there's no context and your arm doesn't look like an arm to a wide angle camera, especially in a wetsuit. Right. So I think that's a, that's yeah. What a, you know, again, like, like I was saying only moments ago, what the way the chest moves kind of happened on that, Uh, so that you guys were in a position where you could do dive reviews and make photos that other people simply weren't going to be able to make, um, is, uh, is so special.
Jason Heaton	I think too, you know, I, I tried diving. I learned to dive and I got into diving, but I often thought that if Gishani didn't take up diving, I still believe this, if she hadn't gotten interested and decided to do it, I probably wouldn't have continued much because, you know, I mean, if we go on vacation, I don't want to be gone all day diving while she's sitting on the beach or doing whatever else. And then we reconvene in the evening. That just doesn't seem like a fun way to have vacation. So the fact that she really latched onto diving, um, and then of course the photography and everything else, I mean, it basically created, you know, a career in a small business for the two of us, which again, you know, you talk about the decisions, the chess pieces, the moves, um, it, it altered our lives entirely.
Ghoshani	I mean, fortunately we have similar interests and I remember when Jason, you know, did his first discover dive, discover scuba dive. I think that was in Mexico one year. And he came back and he couldn't stop talking about it. And I was so excited about it. I thought, OK, you know, maybe I should try it. But my problem at the time was, you know, even though I grew up in a on an island, I never really learned to swim. So my swimming skills were pretty, pretty poor. And by that time, as an adult, I'd had this fear of water. So there was this big challenge as to, you know, I really want to try this. Here's another sport that sounded so interesting. But, you know, at the same time, I had to overcome this immense fear. So that was a very, very interesting sort of challenge. But one thing I realized, though, is once I got into diving and I started shooting underwater, that fear just went away. So the photography part of it really, really gives me that sort of stability. And I really enjoyed that. So that really took off for me.
James	Yeah, I have to admit, I had... So I think that fear is called thalassophobia. which is like a discomfort with large bodies of water, specifically, usually bodies of water where you can't see everything. But I think the fear can include pools as well. And I have a friend, at least one, but I have one friend who's like, this is an actual problem for him. He loves to swim. He likes water. He loves pools. But like, if he can't see the bottom of a lake, he's not going in. So like he'll go to Tobermory to swim because it's so clear and he can feel comfortable. Um, and I have to admit, I had some of that with how dark the water is in Vancouver in and around Vancouver. Um, and, uh, and I'm happy to say, and, and I certainly, I didn't, I didn't work through it at any like, uh, mental level. I just started diving and loved it and it went away. You know, I still get that, that feeling like, Oh, the sharks right behind you. I get that a lot. Um, I, and I, maybe that's normal. Maybe it's not, that's just the way my brain's wired. But, uh, Yeah. I, I, I too had had some, some fear and that kind of stuff. And a lot of it I think was beaten when I, when I did the, the mask removal in, uh, in training is, you know, practicing that and spending a lot of time with it. So you were comfortable in an uncomfortable scenario that seemed to deal with a lot of it for me. It's definitely a visual thing, you know, not having the, you see your eyes or whatever under there with all the complexities of the gear and everything else.
Ghoshani	Yeah. And I think for me, the moment I go underwater, I feel very fine. I don't necessarily have that fear that strong, but when I'm on the surface, that's probably the worst. So if you ask me to go snorkeling, that's probably my least favorite activity.
Unknown	Huh.
James	Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. There is a different comfort with being deep. It's kind of like you're, you're, you're less of a spectator.
Jason Heaton	Yeah. You're interacting with, creatures in the world at eye level rather than looking down, like you don't feel vulnerable maybe?
Unknown	Yeah.
Ghoshani	Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. I don't know. I mean, you know, I envy those people who just jump off a board and just go swimming in any kind of water. I just envy those people because in my mind it's just the biggest battle to just do that. Yeah. And I know it sounds crazy when saying this when here I am, you know, diving and shooting watches. And I've been doing that for 10 years now, but it still is a, it's, it's, it's, it's one of those things you can't justify or explain, you know, it doesn't make sense.
James	I think it's one of those things you just kind of, you have to admit this is the way that you're wired or, or whatever. And you either fight it or don't. And, and I think sometimes you do fight it. And sometimes I don't fight every fear that I've got, but I'm happy that I tried with the diving. I have to say that, you know, Heaton's point about, probably not diving as much if you weren't part of it with him really hits home for me because I really love diving and I used to do it a lot, but it is a, if, if, if you're the only one in a family unit that does it, it's, it is one of those kinds of very selfish activities. I'm not saying selfish in a negative way, but just selfish, just like raw, like it's expensive. It takes a lot of time, you know, even let's say to do the easy dives in Vancouver, you were still getting the tanks the day before. And, and so there's, there's the pickup and the drop off and the chatting at the dive shop. And before you know it, one dive is like 10 or 15 hours to get everything done and sit in traffic and then take the gear back and then come home and start rinsing all your gear and, and the rest of it. So yeah, I can't wait to get back to it, but I think it would definitely be something that where I would, I would want to do so within a context similar to what, uh, what you two have. Yeah, sure.
Jason Heaton	Yeah. You know, all the time that we were, um, started shooting the dive watches, I was, you know, constantly bringing home really cool watches to, to shoot these, these beautiful dive watches that we've known for a decade now. And, and Shani always used to lament that there just weren't great women's sized dive watches. I mean, we're talking as recently as what, 2010 ish time period and women's dive watches were, you know, it was, they were close, but not quite. They were either white or pink or had diamonds on the bezel and whatever. And then, uh, there was that one time, I think it was 2009, You can tell them about your first Omega.
Ghoshani	Yeah. One day Jason showed me a picture of this Omega Seamaster Chronograph. It was the Planet Ocean Chronograph. And it was a, it was an ad. I think it was coming soon.
Jason Heaton	It was the press release from timezone.com.
Ghoshani	Okay. Yeah. It hadn't been released and he showed me that. And I was like, Oh my gosh, that is the most amazing watch. And somehow I really wanted it.
Jason Heaton	Yeah. And it was the smaller sized one. It was like 38, 37 and a half millimeters. Okay. Sorry.
Ghoshani	Oops. Okay. I'll leave the details to you. It was basically the shrunken version of the watch that I had.
Jason Heaton	I mean, it was the smaller exact replica, except smaller and the chronograph.
Ghoshani	Yeah. I mean, before that it was the hundred dollar, you know, Victor Knox, which, so this kind of took, took things way over. This was like the Everest. And man, once I saw that picture, I had to have it. And I remember when it was released, we went down to a JB Hudson's, uh, to the jewelry store here locally. And we, you know, started looking at these watches and oh man, that was probably my first experience buying a watch at a, at a jewelry store. And, um,
Jason Heaton	It was a true luxury experience.
Ghoshani	True luxury. I mean, we got champagne. I remember the whole experience being just so amazing. And, you know, I'm sure it is, you know, the same now, but it's just the first one always stands out. Right. And I put on that watch. Oh, my gosh. And I remember One after I got it, uh, you know, we went diving, I wait on every dive. And of course I wanted to use the chronograph. So I used the chronograph underwater every time. So I could time my dives and I just felt like this was the perfect watch, perfect watch for me.
Jason Heaton	And now she's wearing my Blancpain.
James	I love it. I love it. I, yeah, I think, I think that's great. And, and finding, finding a perfect watch, especially, especially going from, from that price point that you were used to, right into like a true luxury, you know, one of the top brands in the world, et cetera, really, that's gotta be, that's a little bit of trial by fire, right? Because if it wasn't perfect, there would have been some buyer's remorse. It might've even turned you off of watches, maybe of Omega, who knows? Like I've had those sorts of things happen and you read about it with cars and watches and the rest. But I think, I think that's great. And how, how have you, if you were, if you were to look back on, you know, the last 10 years or whatever of more the photography side of it. How do you think that's changed over the last, uh, last few years? I don't, I don't get the impression from Jason, you, that you guys are real gear hounds when it comes to, to photography equipment, you're not buying up bodies out of curiosity or, or new lens or like, it seems like you're fairly considerate about what you use. And certainly I've, I've worked with you guys in underwater settings, uh, me, uh, sadly above water, but I, I got to see the work and the process and the kit and everything. And it's all very specific. what was the learning path kind of from picking up a camera, from getting interested in cameras and taking pictures of stuff for gear patrol to doing more and more stuff in what's arguably the hardest thing or way of shooting a watch underwater?
Ghoshani	So, I mean, kit wise, I would say, you know, it's, it's, it changed, uh, over the years. I think we started with something like a point and shoot, uh, where we got to see view or one of those.
James	It's like a little Olympus. Oh, okay. Yeah. Those WPs.
Ghoshani	Yeah. Yeah. And we had a, um, you know, uh, case for it. And I remember those at that time, the problem with those cameras was you would click the button to take the shot and it would be, there'd be a delay and then it would take the shot. So you'd almost always miss it. And it was so frustrating, but you know, at the time I didn't know, you know, And, uh, and you know, we upgraded, I think we had an older, um, a Nikon, I think it was a cropped crop sensor, uh, D 7,000 that we started playing with, which was great, which was absolutely great. And then the, the, the, the reason we switched from that was it was a big rig and these things can get heavy. You got, you know, you got a dome, you got, you know, the, camera housing, the camera, the lens, uh, they all add bulk. And, um, for me at least not being a bigger person, you know, carrying tanks, weight, heavy camera, just, you know, get, gets a little difficult. So we switched then over to, uh, I believe it was a Sony.
Jason Heaton	Yeah. The Sony alpha seven mark two, I think it was.
Ghoshani	Yeah. Which was a much smaller company. compact camera, and we got a wonderful Nord Cam housing, which I would never go back from that. Ever since we started using Nord Cam, it's been fantastic. Just love those. And so, so our progression has kind of changed that way. And I can't necessarily say we had to change. There was a little bit of that. Hey, I want that new thing. You know, I don't need it. There's nothing I couldn't have done with the gear I had, but I just wanted it. So, uh, and now we've, we've sort of, uh, finally settled on a Nikon Z7. We kind of wanted to bring everything back together into one sort of, uh, brand just to make it easier. Uh, one thing we found with having underwater all being Sony and topside being Nikon, you had two separate sets of lenses and, uh, it was a lot of gear to haul. around when you went anywhere to do a shoot. So.
James	That makes sense to me. And, and kind of along, along that sort of arc of gear, was there one, one thing, whether it was the Nauticam or maybe lighting or the switch to new camera or a specific lens where you felt there was a huge jump in being able to get the shots that you wanted?
Ghoshani	I think the Sony was probably the biggest jump. Boy, once we had that, you know, I used to always have this image of this is what I want. I could actually make it happen. And that made a huge difference. And I can't put it all on sort of equipment. It's probably also my sort of experience level. Yeah, for sure. The more you do, the more you know, the more you know, the less you need.
James	Well, I mean, the thing that always has struck me about shooting underwater video or photography, and I took a GoPro and like an RX100. Oh yeah.
Ghoshani	We had one of those too.
James	With like a hundred dollar Chinese case. I've dealt with both of those. I took a GoPro to Clipperton. So I'd shot a lot with the GoPro, you know, several terabytes or several, several hundred gigabytes over the course of, of that. And all stuff that just sits on a hard drive now, I never ended up using much of it for anything. But the thing that surprises me is, is, you know, in my experience with photography it, you get better by taking more and more photos, which if it's a watch on a table in your house, you can do anytime you want.
Ghoshani	Oh, absolutely. Yeah.
James	But like if you're shooting underwater with a big sealed rig with lights and everything, all of that's amazing. But imagine in a great setting, you might get 30 minutes of the light that you really want and the current that you really want and the visibility. 30 minutes would be great. Yeah. So think about like, I don't get anything done shooting a watch on a table in 30 minutes. I basically just maybe, maybe I'm done setting up the shot. I haven't even picked up the camera. So it's a, it's an entirely different world. And the thing that makes me think of is a little bit like sports photography, where you were going to sit in one area. It's different, but you're, you're waiting for that split second. And it must be, I imagine the, the, the, the rate of progression in terms of that experience and your skillset is, is, is, impacted by how little time you actually get on the shutter while diving?
Ghoshani	Oh, absolutely. And, and it's complicated, right? Because you gotta have really, really good buoyancy. Your model has to have really good buoyancy and you have to be able to communicate, which is, you know, near impossible. I mean, even with Jason and I knowing each other so well, we, you know, we try to communicate something to the other and it just kind of goes nowhere, uh, sometimes underwater because it's impossible, you know, it's impossible to tell the other person what's in your mind. And we ended up just laughing underwater and you know, whatever.
Jason Heaton	You know, the other, the other thing too, that's a challenge, you know, and this is an obvious one, but you're just layering complexity. I mean, you have camera gear, then you have underwater camera gear, and then you have, diving and the dive gear and the current and the visibility and all of those add these layers to what's already a challenging prospect, as you know, um, you know, shooting a small shiny object and, um.
Ghoshani	And add lights and add nature. You know, this one time we were in Catalina and we were doing a shoot and, uh, it's, it was cold. I, at that, that shoot, I didn't have, um, dry suit on and I was very cold.
James	Oh, it is cold for, for, uh, yeah. Catalina without a dry suit, for sure. If you're not used to it.
Ghoshani	And, and I, I'm cold anyway. So, so I was like, okay, we got to shoot this, get, get out of here, you know? And we had this Garibaldi, I think that's what you call them, right?
James	Garibaldi fish. Yeah. Big orange, uh, kind of, um, they look like a cichlid, but I think they're a bass technically, right?
Ghoshani	Yeah. Yeah. The beautiful fish, but here I'm trying to do this shoot and it just keeps coming at me. at the camera and just was almost in every shot. And I was like, Oh my goodness, this is not something you plan for, you know? And, uh, but then you quickly have to change. You pivot and you say, okay, I'm going to shoot with it, but it's just can't cover the watch. So, you know, so you, I guess your learning curve is speeds up a little because you have to, and you know, you're in environments that are moving all the time and then, you know, add light and backscatter and you know, you're constantly trying to sort of work with all these changing elements.
Jason Heaton	We've had, you know, the snafus that I suppose every underwater photographer does where you, you splash in, you're, you're down at depth and you turn on the camera and you realize, Oh, you know, the lens cap is on.
[Affirmative response]	Yeah.
Jason Heaton	The lens cap is on inside the housing or you don't have an SD card.
Unknown	Yup.
Jason Heaton	You know, and at that point there's absolutely nothing you can do. And now that camera becomes this burden that you have to carry around if you're going to finish the dive because you can't shoot with it. Um, so we, you know, we've had countless situations like that and I think we've adapted our process over the years. I mean, you know, that inability to communicate efficiently underwater means that we've tried to put together good shot lists and break up if you're somewhere for a week or even a day and you're doing two or three dives, you say, okay, first dive, we're going to get these five shots. The second dive, we're going to get these five. And yeah, you know, granted we've done some commercial shoots for, for watch brands and for dive computer company and stuff. But a lot of the work is for these editorial reviews that I've written. And you know, you'd like to say, Oh, she's just documenting me diving. But the reality is you want to show the watch and the photo. So it becomes a bit of a posed shoot. And so we have to plan out, what I'm going to be doing if I'm reaching for a knife in a sheath on my leg or, you know, aiming a flashlight at something or whatever. So we, we discuss all that, but when we get down, we say, okay, shot one, shot two, shot three. And then we, we go through with it.
Ghoshani	Yeah. I mean, it's always starts with a story. We always have a story of what that is that then generates what the shot list is and you know, how we kind of approach that. And of course there's always wiggle room. And for me, you know, even though I'm sort of going through those shots, Uh, sometimes the environment I'm in, you know, lends itself to something completely different. And I'm, of course, I'm going to take that shot too, you know, because sometimes the one you had in mind may not turn out. And the one that does turn out is something completely different. So you, you start to sort of, you know, you just shoot, shoot, shoot as much as possible in any opportunity to get, uh, the only thing, uh, about those shoots is that your entire dive is sort of seen through a camera, uh, the lens of the camera, you know?
James	Yeah. Rather than you just appreciating it as an environmental experience.
Ghoshani	Right. You don't really, you don't really get to experience a dive. You don't see it that way. Um, uh, there was this one time when we were in the, in the Maldives and, uh, we were doing a whale shark dive. And I had a camera. This, this wasn't any particular shoot or anything. Uh, although we were shooting, no, we weren't. Okay. Um, but anyway, we were in Maldives, uh, uh, on a whale shark dive and remember it was kind of murky. So we knew there was a whale shark because, uh, our dive guide sort of made a noise to let us know, but I couldn't see it. And finally, you know, about 10 feet away, it could see it. finally came into view. And that was so amazing. And at that point I had to, uh, put my camera down and just experience it because of my very first whale shark, you gotta take that in, you know? I mean, I managed to fire a few off, but then I had to just look at it. I was in awe.
James	Yeah. I mean, that's an animal that's been on my list for a really long time.
Jason Heaton	Uh, I mean the other, I guess, frustrating trip to the, a little bit, although I'm very privileged to go on it, but was, um, Uh, we were invited to go with IWC to the Galapagos Islands. Um, and I was wearing the, I guess it's the deep three. So that's their latest version of the depth gauge Aqua timer. And, um, Kashani came along on that trip and it was an amazing trip. And we had, did we just do one dive or just two days of diving one day? But I remember thinking we have to get some good photos of this watch in the Galapagos for this story that I was writing. And, um, you know, the Galapagos. I mean, come on, there's sea lions and there's, you know, there were hammerhead sharks and rays, you know, mobula rays, you know, swimming around. And it's like, all we could do is like, okay, hold your wrist out. Let's swim down that reef. I'm going to take pictures of you with that watch on. And it's like, it's so frustrating to like go on a trip and have to focus on what, you know, the stupid object on my wrist rather than the wildlife around you.
Ghoshani	Yeah. And those were some challenging conditions too. So it's a little difficult.
James	And when, you know, well, while we're taking this trip down memory lane, do you two have any, any dives that like, you'll just never forget, whether it's an encounter with an animal or the conditions were perfect for the photos or, or, or just something that kind of stood out. I know, I know that you guys, you know, big, big fans of Bonaire, but you've dove a lot of places in a lot of different environments. What are the ones that, that you think about when you can't go diving?
Jason Heaton	Hmm. I mean, you mentioned Bonaire and I've talked about it many times on the show because we go every year. We were going every year until this year. And, uh, you know, it's a great place. It's, it's easy diving. I always recommend it to new divers or people that just want to take a week and enjoy themselves. But I think, um, I think the Maldives was a place that was on our bucket list for a long time. And it's so close to Sri Lanka that finally, when we went the last time and we made that what hour and a half trip over by airplane, It was a no-brainer. It was so rewarding to dive with the reef mantas in very clear warm water and then the whale shark diving that we did. So that was pretty spectacular. I think we didn't really have a watch that we had to photograph, so it was truly a trip where we could just enjoy. Kishane got some great photos. I remember there was one photo that turned out to be a great watch photo. It was kind of me in the foreground with this Doxa SeaRambler 50th anniversary on my wrist and then this ray kind of arcing behind me. And Ghoshani just framed it perfectly. And it's just such a great, great shot. Probably the best, I would almost say the best watch photo. I mean, there've been a lot of good ones, but it was a good creature shot.
Ghoshani	Definitely.
Jason Heaton	Yeah. It had everything in it. Yeah.
Ghoshani	I'd have to say like Sri Lanka has some really, really good wreck dives as well. There was that cargo ship that we dove that I thought it was particularly fantastic. And that's, that was right in Colombo. Um, they're really truly enjoyed and would love to go back and do, um, Bahamas. I mean, Oh yeah. I mean, you can't beat the Bahamas for gin clear water. It is. I don't know how they do it, but it's just perfect. You don't get backscatter. It's you can see for miles. It's just amazing. Amazing. And of course, Bonaire, of course, you know, and that is, it's not just the diving in Bonaire, it's just everything about it. You know, you just rent a truck, you stop on the side of the road, you walk into the ocean. I mean, where else can you do that? I mean, that's just pretty spectacular.
James	Plus all the iguana you can eat.
Ghoshani	Yeah, exactly. Absolutely.
James	Which I understand is an acquired taste. Yeah.
Ghoshani	Well, Jason was brave enough to try.
James	Yeah. Never again. Oh, you got it. You got to at least try it for sure. Right. Right. Yeah. I can't imagine it being good, but yeah.
Ghoshani	I don't know. I just can't get over that.
James	So Shani, I think this is going well. I think we could probably do this for several hours. Uh, at least I could sit and listen about great dive stories and travel stuff for several hours. I'm, I'm definitely, uh, you know, feeling a feeling lacking in the, in that, uh, zone, but, uh, you know, wanting to be respectful of your time and knowing that we can probably have you on sometime in the future. I'd love to get to know you a little bit better outside of the world of photography and watches and diving. What else are you into? What excites you today when you can't be diving, when it's not really the same sort of space as we've had in previous years?
Ghoshani	Sure. You know, I would say one of my biggest addictions is playing badminton. Ah! So outside of everything else, that would be my number one thing that I do. And I play with a local group here, sometimes, you know, three to four times a week. And it's one of those sports that I started playing as a kid when I was in school, high school. And, you know, I played through high school, won a few cups in school. And that's mainly, you know, I was good, but I wasn't that good, but I was better than everyone else, thankfully. Uh, and then I got, yeah, that helped. And then I got to college and, uh, you know, I played some here when I was at Luther. And then, you know, once I graduated, I was really looking for a place to do that. And badminton wasn't a huge sport at the time, but, um, In the past, I would say, you know, I don't know, 10 years or so, it's really picked up in popularity, thankfully. And a lot of schools have leagues and there's a huge badminton scene now. And I typically do a tournament a year, uh, here. Um, well now I'm more in the senior category, but, uh, uh, I mean, it's one of those sports I just absolutely love. And, uh, you know, the, the, we have a small group and we're just all addicted. So that's, that's where a lot of my time goes.
James	Off the top of my head. I can't think of another sport where there's such a Delta between the way that someone plays in their backyard when they get a badminton set for their family or even the first time you played at school. I remember playing it in grade nine or grade 10 and the way that then you see a video of how it's actually played.
[No speaker identified]	Oh yeah.
James	Oh yeah. Are you, are you kidding me? It's incredible. How do y'all think that quickly?
Ghoshani	I don't.
James	It's such a fast sport.
Ghoshani	But yeah, it is so fast. It's crazy. And believe me, it's, it's not the easiest sport to play as you get older too. It is so hard on your joints.
James	Absolutely. I think we've got a base that we can call kind of, we'll call it Gashani number one. We can do a two and a two in the future, maybe, Maybe we could do a Ghoshani themed Q&A or something like that. If you're interested in any of that, please, please drop us, drop us an email, thegreatnadoatgmail.com, but we do want to get to final notes. Ghoshani's got a great pick and, and, and, you know, want to make sure she can get back, Ghoshani want to make sure that she can get back to work and the rest of it. So maybe we slide into, slide into final notes and put a bow on the show. First one of the year. Sounds good.
Jason Heaton	Yeah, I think that's a good idea. And before we get into that, we just want to, uh, bring to everybody's attention that our friends over at Alps and meters that, that super cool mountain lifestyle clothing brand that we've worked with in the past, um, is doing a bit of a giveaway with our friends also at Oris. And, um, we don't have all the details for it yet, but it's coming up between January 24th and the 31st.
James	So, yeah, well, we don't have a link to send you to just yet. We can get that in the Instagram, but Alps and Meters and Oris reached out just to see if we could kind of help amplify this. And it's actually pretty solid giveaway. I mean, they're doing a jacket and a sweater from Alps, a watch from Oris, a new set of skis from Crossing Skis and a two night stay at the St. Regis Deer Valley in Vail, a fantastic area to go skiing. We have a little bit of skiing experience in that area between Jason and I. So as soon as we have more details about how you can enter and the rest of it, we'll get on it. I imagine we'll have all the details for the next episode, but that'll be midway into the giveaway itself, into the timing for the giveaway. So I would say just pay attention to any of the Instagrams of anybody we've mentioned previously, any Jason, mine, Granados, Oris, Alps, the rest. And we'll be sure to share those details. We got big love for the folks at Alps and at Oris and such. Uh, looks like a cool giveaway and probably a nice way to, um, kick off some skiing in, uh, in this year, if it, if the timing works out for you. Uh, so yeah, but I do think, uh, uh, we're probably ready for some final notes. Who, uh, who's feeling like they'd like to go first.
Jason Heaton	Oh, I can jump in. Um, my, uh, my note for this week is one that's near and dear to our hearts. It involves our sort of. honorary TGN deity, Dick Preneke. Who?
Unknown	I don't know. I don't know who that is.
Jason Heaton	So Dick Preneke is, for the three of you that don't remember, it was this, this naturalist and outdoorsman who set up a cabin built from scratch from trees that he felled and turned into uh, even the tools that he used to build it, um, up in a remote region of Alaska. And, um, he's become a bit of a legend. We posted something from a Filson blog a few weeks back. Uh, there was a story about him. And then of course there's the alone in the wilderness series that we've highlighted in the past. In any case, there's a new book coming out about Praniky, um, that, uh, we'll highlight, you know, some of his work up there. And according to this, a blog post that that came via our friend Ed Estlow. Hi Ed. Thanks Ed for that. On the website for Lost Art Press, uh, they commissioned some illustrations from an artist named Elin Price who needed, they needed her to sketch, um, some of Dick's, uh, implements, tools, um, bits and pieces from the cabin that they couldn't get reliable photography for. from the archives. So she did these incredibly detailed sketches and drawings that are going to be used as part of this book. And I can't wait for the book to come out. I mean, you know, anything involving Dick Parenke is just, you know, such a treasure. And so we'll see how that comes together, but we'll post up this blog post in the show notes. It's called illustrating observations from Dick Parenke's handcrafted life. So some really beautiful, I'm not sure if it's charcoal or pencil or
James	Yeah, just scrolling through some of the work here. This is great. And anything Dick Preneke, we're on board immediate, you know, just consider us sold. So, uh, I think this is great. I got, I got through, um, alone in the wilderness over the break as well. Uh, yet, yet again, which is nice. It used to be my go-to for, you know, for flights, uh, when I was feeling like I had too much, uh, human culture around me, but yeah, this is a, this is great. And, uh, I'm looking, looking forward to seeing, yeah, some of these illustrations of the boots and the crampons and, And the rest are really, really fascinating. Good pick. Yeah. Thanks, Ed, for that. Kishan, do you want to go next?
Ghoshani	Sure. Sure. So I want to talk about a dish that I had been making from the time I was a little kid growing up in Sri Lanka and something that we often take camping. It's a roti. We call it pul roti. And if you translate that, it's coconut flatbread. that we often make in Sri Lanka. It's a comfort food. You can have it for breakfast or dinner. And it's very, very easy to make. So I thought if any of you guys are out camping and want to try something else, this would be an easy one to do. So very simply, it is about two cups of all-purpose flour, one cup of grated coconut, And if you don't have grated coconut handy, what you can do is you can get frozen grated coconut from an Indian store. If you can't find that desiccated coconut, unsweetened, you can sort of put a little bit of hot water to sort of moisten it back and that will work too. So two cups of all-purpose flour, one cup of grated coconut, salt to taste. um about a quarter of a red onion chopped finely or a shallot or a large shallot and green chili obviously optional you can leave that out and if you can find if you do go to the indian store and you can find curry leaves they really do add an amazing flavor so i chop that up mix it all up And then what I do is I add little bits of water into it until it becomes a dough. And really you can go wrong with this. So if you have a little bit too much water and the dough becomes too sticky, add a little more flour. There's no right and wrong with this. And frankly, you cannot, you know, you can ask 10 Sri Lankans how to make roti and they'll all give you a separate recipe. So you really can't go wrong. Make it any way you want. As long as you like it, it's the one. So, uh, basically you mold it into, you know, make little balls out of the dough. You flatten it. And at home, when we make it, we use it, you know, we put it on like a griddle where you make pancakes.
[Affirmative response]	Okay.
Ghoshani	You put that on and you just kind of heat it up. You brown one side and the other. And one little tip to not have it stick on your hands, put a little bit of oil and kind of rub it on your palms and then make the balls. That makes the dough not stick to your hands. And then when you put it on the griddle, it kind of cooks nicely too and doesn't stick.
James	That sounds lovely. And then is it eaten kind of on its own? You kind of roll it up and then eat it like a piece of bread? Yeah. What's the side? What's the dip? Is there any options like that?
Ghoshani	Right, right. So, you know, it's really just good just like that with butter. Back home, we usually eat it with a coconut sambol or something we call lunu miris, which is really a mix of onion, chili, red chilies and salt. and lime juice. It doesn't have to be hot, but it is somewhat spicy, but that's a typical pairing with a roti. If you go to one of the small shops in Sri Lanka and you buy roti, it'll always come with loon miris. So if there are any Sri Lankan listeners in your group.
Jason Heaton	And we have it with like, if you just have it with butter or like we'll let you do it with like lentils or like even soup, you can sort of dip it in soup or you can, you can put like, like a, you can fry an egg and put that on top. I mean, it's scrambled eggs. I mean, it's, yeah, it's, it's really versatile.
Ghoshani	Yeah. You can eat it any time of the day. I mean, in fact, if you make a few and put it in your backpack and go camping, hiking, I mean, it's kind of a great snack too, you know?
James	Yeah. Great pick. That sounds fantastic. I'm so hungry now. Uh, that sounds delicious. I need some of that for sure. We'll put it in the show notes so that people can find it later on, but it doesn't, doesn't sound too, too difficult. It kind of sounds like fun experimenting with how it comes apart as well. Right. Um, my pick is a, is a fairly simple one to, uh, to close out our first show of the year. It's a, it's called the manual reusable camera zero zero one. So this is offered by a company called big cartel, big cartel.com. It's seventy five dollars. Currently, I'm more suggesting it as something to watch because they put it out for preorder and they sold all of them. So they're working on doing another round of preorder. But it's literally just imagine the like Walgreens disposable camera you buy, but it's not disposable. It's very similar in terms of its overall technology. It has a flash if you need it. It uses a thirty five millimeter film. It has kind of a constant I think it's an F9, F11 lens. Uh, and, and you just kind of, it's a point and shoot film camera that's meant to be used like a disposable camera, but then it's not disposable. You actually keep the plastic, uh, camera body. Uh, and, and at first I thought it was kind of expensive. It's $75. Um, but that price also includes, um, obviously the camera, a wrist strap, the batteries, and a voucher for development and scanning of your first roll. So if you factor, I think the last time I bought a disposable camera, you can maybe find them for $15 a little bit more. I think, I think the one I bought was more like almost double that. Cause it was, you know, you could take it in the pool. I bought it for some, some, you know, kind of a swimming vacation. But I think at $75, you're getting a camera that you don't have to throw away. It's not just an added amount of waste into the world. But on top of that, you're getting the dev and scan, which depending where you are, is probably a $25 feature, maybe $30. So I think the pricing isn't crazy for something where you actually get to keep it. And then in keeping it, you'll also kind of get better at shooting with that specific tool rather than just really treating it as a disposable experience, not just the camera, but even the whole, the whole sort of experience. Uh, and, and I, I think it could be fun, more people getting into, uh, more people getting into film cameras. And I think this was a very, uh, very, uh, accessible and non-threatening way to do so. Uh, and, and I think what they've got is I think it's kind of a good idea. It's, it's not super expensive. Um, but also if you were to buy a used 35 millimeter camera of an older camera, for $75, you're probably not getting one that's going to be as good as the day it was made. Um, it's not going to be quite as sharp overall and experience. It might need service. It might even need repairs, et cetera. Uh, and I think if you don't want that guesswork, uh, I think this is a nice option for dipping your toe into the, into the kind of the film world.
Jason Heaton	Yeah, that's really cool. It has a certain. Nostalgic look to it. Vacation camera that you'd tuck in your pocket and go. Yeah. I like that.
Unknown	But I like it.
James	You know, let's say, let's say you're, I think it's the kind of thing where you could, you could almost use it the same way that people use disposables. You're going on a vacation, you're going to do something specific and this is the camera that you have with you. And maybe, maybe you bolster it with your phone. So you have some photos you can share with friends immediately, but the special ones are going to come from this camera. I'd like, it's almost, almost guaranteed. Um, even if you don't know what you're doing, there's no, you're not changing settings on a camera like this. You're basically picking your film, you know, presumably setting the ISO or operating the ISO and then just shooting. And if it's dark, you use the flash and you take what you get. Uh, the samples they have on their website look, look pretty cool. It kind of comes in, in a pretty not no nonsense packaging. And I like that it, you know, if, if you're the disposable camera type, I think maybe this is the next step where you're not throwing a camera away every time.
Ghoshani	There's something very cool about waiting for the film to get processed too, you know?
James	Yeah. I agree.
Ghoshani	And looking at the photos later, we're so used to that instant gratification now.
James	Yeah. I've been carrying that. I have that little Olympus XA. Oh yeah. It's this really tiny, weird range finder. And I've been carrying that as my film camera for a while now. But like, you know, I went on a hike this past weekend and you maybe take three or four shots and then it's maybe two weeks later before I take three or four more shots. So by the time you're done a 36 exposure roll, that could be four months. Yeah. Right. And so you develop it and it's kind of like reliving these memories because you didn't even remember shooting them. Like the, the, they, they have, it's, it's so different than digital. Yeah. Right. I think I discredited film as, as like a lesser version of what I already had with digital. And while in many ways what they do is the same thing, the way it hits you is way different.
Jason Heaton	Yeah.
James	Way different.
Jason Heaton	Yeah. I do like that, that sense of like you get a, a, six month old roll of film developed and like you're revisiting like past seasons, you know, it's like, Oh, the sun was out. The trees had leaves on them.
James	Yeah. I remember that day with that person or that, you know, that, that corner of town we found on a Saturday morning or something like that.
Jason Heaton	Yeah. Before a pandemic.
James	Yeah, for sure. Um, but yeah, so that's, uh, that's definitely my pick. Um, uh, I think, uh, yeah, we, we, So, yeah, that's my pick to kind of close out the show for 2021. Episode 135 with Kishani. I'm thrilled with how this went. We've got a great recipe. We've got a Dick Preneke book and we've got a cheap 35mm film camera. It's pretty on point as far as final notes go. Anything else before we wrap it up?
Ghoshani	Well, thank you so much, guys, for having me on the show. I really enjoyed this. I wasn't quite sure how it would go. This is my very first podcast. So I was a little nervous, but I really enjoyed myself. And that's a huge thanks to both of you for making me so comfortable. Thanks.
James	Thanks again. Oh, of course. And thank you, Ghoshani. I think this was great. Where can people find you online if they want to see your photos, if they want to follow along with what you're up to?
Ghoshani	You can find me on Instagram at Ghoshani R. Fantastic.
Jason Heaton	All right. Hopefully I, uh, I still have a job after, uh, after Ghoshani co-hosting here. She made a strong case for replacing me with something more interesting, but, uh, as always, thanks so much for listening. You can hit the show notes via Hodinkee.com or the feed for more details. You can follow us on Instagram at Jason Heaton, J E Stacey and Ghoshani R and follow the show at The Graynado. If you have any questions for us, please write TheGraynado at gmail.com and keep sending those voice memos. Please subscribe and review wherever you find your podcasts. Music Throughout is Siesta by JazzArr via the Free Music Archive.
James	And we leave you with this quote from T.S. Eliot who said, We shall not cease from exploration and the end of all our exploring will be to arrive where we started and know the place for the first time.