The Grey NATO - 127 - September Q and A

Published on Fri, 16 Oct 2020 12:41:52 -0400

Synopsis

This is a Q&A podcast episode from The Grey NATO podcast. Jason Heaton and James answer questions submitted by listeners on various topics related to watches, travel, gear, and more. They provide their thoughts and advice on issues like getting vintage watches serviced, the appeal of certain watch models like the Seiko Baby Turtle, dealing with Canadian pricing for watches, creative strap and watch pairings, and other enthusiast topics.

Links

• episode page
• episode MP3
• episode webpage snapshot
• episode MP3 - local mirror

Transcript

Speaker
James	Hello and welcome to another episode of the Graynado, a Hoodingke podcast. It's a loose discussion of travel, diving, driving gear, and most certainly watches. This is episode 127, and it's proudly brought to you by Well, you. It's the September Q&A. So thank you so much for everyone who sent in their questions. With these sort of Q&A format shows, we don't do the normal chitchat. We don't give you an update on what the weather is, where we are. We're not doing any of that. But of course, I am joined by my illustrious co-host, Jason Heaton. Jason, how are you doing?
Jason Heaton	Good, good. Ready to dive in. These are a good crop of questions this time, as usual.
James	Yeah, always. And we're going to do our best to get through, as always, as many as possible. This will be a little bit longer episode than maybe we normally shoot for because we are trying to work through a bit of a backlog. All of you have been so kind in sending in great questions. So, Jason, what do you say we start off with this first one from Dan about getting his Seiko 5 serviced? Great. Let's do it.
Dan	Hey, guys. It's Dan from London. Huge thank you for all the work you do. I absolutely love listening to TGN, have done from the beginning. I have a question regarding Seiko 5s. I have a Seiko 5 which I absolutely love, but the cost of having these serviced is significantly more than buying a new watch, and in a world which is becoming a lot more sustainable and trying to produce a lot less waste, my question is whether or not these watches even have a place in the market anymore, when it doesn't incentivise you to have them fixed if they do go wrong. Would love to hear your thoughts. Thanks so much.
Jason Heaton	Thanks for that question, Dan. I tend to think kind of the opposite as you when it comes to the Seiko 5. I don't necessarily think that their low price indicates that they are intended to be an obsolete or a disposable product. And I think the fact that you don't pay much for them, but then you keep them alive for a long time by servicing them is kind of a nice incentive to buy a Seiko 5. Unless you place significant importance on refinement, finishing, accuracy, whatever. If you like the Seiko 5 and you paid $150 for it or less, I think that's kind of the ultimate. It's almost like buying a pair of shoes for $50 and then re-souling them every year and wearing them for the next 20 years. I think that's a really neat spin on the usual scenario. That said, if you spend five times as much and you get a nice Omega or a Rolex or something like that and you keep that serviced, chances are it might keep better time, hold its value better, etc. But if your intention is to wear this thing and to minimize your impact on on the planet and that disposable product cycle, I think you could do a lot worse than a Seiko 5.
James	Yeah, I would agree. I think that it's only disposable if you believe it to be disposable, if the price point is such that you believe it to be insignificant. But I've had my Seiko, it's not a 5, but it costs about as much. I paid back in the day maybe $125, $130 Canadian for my 007. It's been serviced twice, a total cost of maybe $450? Doesn't bother me one bit. I think it's part of keeping the watch in your circle. I think if you're at a position where the value of the watch detracts from the likelihood of having it serviced, like if the watch feels not nice enough for you to continue servicing it, I think maybe that watch shouldn't be with you anymore. Maybe that's a good time to say, give it to a friend and tell them, hey, here's a watch. It's good. It just needs a little tune up. and they can spend what might be the price of what they would have spent on the next watch, but to pick up something with a bit of a history, something from a friend, that sort of thing. Maybe this is a great watch to pass on to a younger member in your extended family. But between... Like for me, I like the idea of regardless of what the watch costs, making sure that it runs correctly and have it serviced. And it would also depend on kind of what's wrong with it. If there's a lot wrong with it, maybe just have the watchmaker put a brand new movement in it and don't sweat teardowns and the rest of it and go from there. If it's something relatively simple, just keep it up to spec is how I see it. I don't think that the idea that something... What it costs, I don't know that that... I guess with a very expensive watch, I could see the argument that Not only are you getting into very expensive servicing, but you feel almost indebted to keep this expensive thing up and running. But I think with any watch, it's just kind of a personal metric of where you see the sustainability for you. Not so much at a grand scale, because I think that Seiko makes probably more watches than people need on a yearly basis. And I think that's probably a bigger issue than whether or not a watch is worn for several years and then it's decided to be serviced or not. And in many ways, I would say that if you're simply not ready to service it, it's not so much that maybe it's not... Maybe that it is or isn't something that you wanna keep, maybe just throw it in a drawer and see if it comes back into your life in some way or if it has some value in the future. Again, it could be a gift, it could be something that sparks somebody else's fascination in watches, and you could pass along that via the watch. I don't think that it necessarily has to be a question of if a watch is too cheap at a purchase level to be worth servicing. I think that's a bit of a personal option. I think they're all worth servicing, especially if you have somebody who would wear them, whether that's you or a friend or a loved one.
Jason Heaton	Well, thanks a lot for that question, Dan. We'll move on to our next question from Jack, who has a question about the riding life.
Jack	Hi, James. Hi, Jason. Jack here from just outside Leeds in England. My question for Q&A, is with relation to getting out and getting an understanding of basically writing about what you guys write about, whether it's watches, whether it's cars, whether it's gear. I've got an interest in all of the above and wanting to maybe write a couple of pieces of my own and see where that can take me and where that goes. Also getting an understanding for you guys of how you gave up what you guys were doing beforehand to make a career in the industries that you guys are in. We love what you do. And it would be nice to get a couple of tips and tricks from you guys as well. As I say, based in England, if you guys are ever in England in the near future or in the future, give us a shout and we'll catch up for a pint and talk watches and gear and cars. That would be great. And we'll keep listening to the pod. We love what you do. Thanks very much, guys. Bye bye.
Jason Heaton	Thanks for that one, Jack. And thanks for the offer of a pint if we ever make it over there, one of these more normal years. James, you want to take a first stab at his question?
James	The big thing is understand that it's gonna be the scenario that allows you to move from whatever you do as your day job into one of these sort of self-driven jobs, whether it's a content creator or a photographer or whatever. You have to balance all the various aspects of your own scenario. So there's not gonna be a cookie cutter methodology of doing it, but I would say if you're not at the point where you have to leave your day job because it's getting in the way of your success, in a new endeavor, then I would say just invest your time in honing the skills that are required for the endeavor. So if you want to write, write daily. It doesn't have to be about watches or cars or whatever you plan to eventually write about. It's more of a muscle thing. There's a big difference between maybe picking up some weights to get a bit stronger and actually doing the activity. And down the road, you may do the activity more and more often as you develop a voice or an idea more specifically of what you want to write about or produce content about. But at the start, I would say that the biggest thing is just to learn the kind of ins and outs of being, I guess, quote unquote, creative. I don't consider necessarily what I do all that creative, but there's kind of an ebb and flow to when you're ready to make something and when you're not. And I think that's something that I'm still learning, you know, well over 10 years into this, is how to balance that sort of schedule of kind of left brain, right brain. When you're ready to put an idea on paper or capture an idea in front of a camera or something like that, or when it's time to kind of just invest in the general skill set rather than the polished kind of finish, I would say start a blog or start a YouTube channel. Maybe start a side Instagram just for you and start developing a style when it comes to photography, which can take thousands and thousands of images. But if you want to get into it, the best thing about this whole world is the only thing that's in your way is you. If you want to get into this and you want to do it, just start doing it. That's what everybody who does it kind of did at some point. And that's what sets the people apart who have successful blogs and YouTube channels and working photography and the rest of it is they just actually started. There's no stepping into it at the fifth stage. You have to start at kind of one and move on, but it's definitely a journey and it's one that just rewards action. So if it's something that you wanna do, just start however you like, you'll end up changing it a thousand times anyways. What do you think, Jason?
Jason Heaton	Yeah, I think there are kind of two sides to moving into a writing life or a creative life, and that is doing the work and then getting the word out if you actually want to, to get known and establish a career and find opportunities. And I think, I think the key to both is making sure that you have the passion and the knowledge about something. Because if you do, odds are there's an audience for it. Um, and I think the key then, and I always tell people that ask this similar question is, you know, try to have an original voice or perspective on whatever it is. So if it's, um, you know, if it's watches, maybe don't choose, you know, the, the, the typical sort of angle that, that all of the blogs or all of the writers are talking about. Maybe it's something more, um, you know, the history of drilled lugs or, or, you know, the use of chronographs in, uh, in the kitchen or whatever it is, you know, you find something in original angle and kind of hone that and stick to it and, and be good at it. You know, really practice writing nowadays can feel a bit like a throwaway activity with the way we are always just, you know, dashing off captions on Instagram or Twitter and sending text messages. But I think, you know, really hone the craft and read a lot and also write a lot. I think the second part of it is, you know, finding an outlet where you'll actually find an audience. And that's the key to moving from a day job, for instance, to doing it full time is because you need to get paid for this, obviously, whether that's through selling ads on a blog that you start or, you know, getting paid for editorial content with a publication. Um, I think don't worry about that at first. I think at first you need to hone your craft and find that voice and the audience will, will come. I think you can start writing reviews on web forums, uh, you know, watch you seek or time zone where you have an audience and people start to really recognize, Hey, this guy's, I like his watch reviews. I like his commentary on, you know, this or that. Um, then maybe you move on to a blog and then you can tell people, Hey, you know, if you like what I've written here on the forum, check out my blog and, um, do the same on Instagram and, and kind of start spreading the word in a very organic way. Get, get friends involved. People who already like what you do will, will spread the word for you. Um, and, and another way to, to kind of get work with writing is solicit the, the blogs and the publications that you like to read. and ask if they'll even take free submissions or whether they're looking for freelancers. These days it's a little bit more difficult but you know I got my start with Gear Patrol because they were looking for new freelance contributors and I sent in the sample and got hired for some freelance work and it kind of snowballed from there so you know just you know in a nutshell I think both of us are saying you know write a lot, develop your voice and kind of build it and they will come as they say. So, uh, good luck and, uh, you know, just stick to it. And thanks for the question, Jack. Um, let's move on to another one from Jose who wants to know about how to make a big watch fit better.
Jose	Hi Jason and James. Thank you very much for the Great NATO Podcast. I really like the show a lot and it's always nice to receive a notification on a new episode. Let's say you have a watch that you like so much but it's slightly bigger, not saying crazy big, like let's say two millimeters bigger than your usual, and you sort of refuse to let that watch go. What would be your trick to make it sort of acceptable, especially wearing now in the summer in the short sleeves? In winter you can always hide it under a cuff, it's okay. Let me know if you would have a trick or a suggestion on that. And by the way, my name is Jose and I'm calling in from Poland. Once again, thank you very much for your work. Bye.
James	All right, Jose from Poland. That's a fun question. And yeah, sometimes I definitely, Jason, I'm sure you do too. You have watches of all kinds of different sizes and you kind of go through these little methodologies where for a while you only wear the stuff around 40, but then Occasionally you want to put something on and the jump from 40 to 43 or 44 is not that big, but it can feel huge. And I find it all comes down to strap choice. What do you figure, Jason?
Jason Heaton	Yeah, I think strap choice is also a key to this. I think certain watches, if you put a leather strap on, the straps kind of go straight down from the lugs and disappear when you look at the watch from the front. Sometimes the integrated bracelets that come on a lot of watches are the better look. They kind of fill out that space.
James	Um, yeah, big watches seem to do well with bracelets. And it's funny because my initial answer listening to shows this question was just to say, save your big watches for when you have big sleeves. Uh, the, the kind of like, like this, the weather that's starting right now and we'll carry through, you know, till March for the, the, North Americans listening and those in the Northern Hemisphere. I often find that when I have a jacket and a sweater and a button up all kind of stacked up on my sleeve, that's when a bigger watch feels, I don't know, like it just kind of fits better. Yeah. And then when it comes to summer, suddenly I need a smaller watch. I want the tiniest watch I've got that doesn't weigh anything and doesn't feel sweaty on my wrist or too heavy. doesn't get in the way of whatever I'm doing with my, you know, summertime hours. But yeah, I think in many ways, you know, go for a low bulk strap, the crown and buckle Chevron, a NATO with, you know, the underkeeper trimmed away or a nice thin kind of lighter leather strap can go a long way. And then kind of to what Jason said, in many ways, a lot of the bigger watches just do in my case, and I don't even like bracelets that much, but I do find they do pretty well on a bracelet. If the watch just feels kind of a little bit too big at times, there's something about the bracelet, especially if it's one that was really well designed for the watch. It does a good job, but I even find sometimes I try and balance a big watch with a cheap mesh bracelet like that eBay mesh bracelet that I've got, and that can do a really nice job too in don't wear it too tight, don't, you know, that sort of thing I think can help. But yeah, it's a thing every time I go from a smaller watch to something like an SKX, my 007 at 40, not quite 42, feels big sometimes. And you kind of have to play around with the straps and figure out what works.
Jason Heaton	Yeah, I think I don't have much to add to that. I think also, you know, with big watches, sometimes you just have to lean into it and there's a time of year or a time in your life or a time of day when you just feel like putting on a big watch, whether that's like an IWC Big Pilot or a Ploprof or something like that. And it's just a certain look that goes well with things that you're wearing or your mood. And sometimes you're into the smaller watches. But straps, I think, are the key here.
James	Well, you've had good success with the bun strap on chunkier watches. Yeah. Which is kind of a full lean in. It is a lean in. It's also not so much a summer option because that's so much leather. Right. But for the rest of the year, I mean, I would say one of your larger watches actually on wrist, you know, the Teagraph. Yeah. It's not that big of a watch, all things considered. I mean, it's dwarfed by a modern Offshore or something like that. Right. But it does wear kind of chunky, like a Ploprof. It's big in a bunch of dimensions that aren't really necessarily meant to make it smaller on your wrist. Right. And I think sometimes a bigger watch will just take a bigger strap a lot better. Yeah.
Unknown	Yeah, I agree.
James	Well, good luck, Jose. Yeah. And let's get to another from Stefan, who's asking about giving up on a brand.
Stefan	Hey, James. Hey, Jason. It's Stefan here from Toronto. A double-barreled question for you. So a few years ago I picked up an Autodromo Veloce, a very, very cool watch, but it just didn't click with me. And so I sold it on and I kind of wrote off the brand, but now I'm looking at the Group Bs, the Night Stage II and the Safari, and they just look so cool. So first question is, do you have any experience with the Autodromo Group Bs? And if so, what do you think? And then the second part of the question is, are there any brands that you guys might have given up on at some point but then gone back to and been pleasantly surprised. Thanks for everything you guys do and look forward to hearing any stories you might have to share.
Jason Heaton	Thanks for that, Stefan. James, you obviously had some experience with a Group B. Why don't you take the lead on this one?
James	Yeah, as far as a Group B goes, I think they're great watches. I think that they've made them even better with the latest generation that has the bracelet. which I think could help a lot just to bring some variety to that watch, because it has that sort of seat belt retainer loop, so it's basically only applicable with a Zulu-style nylon strap. And then going to the bracelet just gives you another option, which I think makes a lot of sense. They didn't change the price very much. I think Bradley does beautiful design work on most of his watches, especially the Group B is the one that has always spoken to me. I owned a yellow example for some time, and would definitely consider one of the new ones with the bracelet. I think that'd be super fun. I love the way the bracelet looks. It has just a little bit of that Royal Oak, you know, kind of sleekness to it. And I think they're doing some beautiful work with color and a lot of their other stuff is really great looking as well and super successful. Just got to pick something in your size range. And that's why that 39 millimeter of the Group B always kind of spoke to me and they wear almost invisible on wrist. They take all sorts of straps, like whatever NATO you've got leather NATO on that yellow one. I loved a lot. And then as far as giving up on a brand, I'm not sure I've ever given up on a brand. I don't tend to look at brands as a holistic endeavor. There are pretty much every brand has a watch or two that I really don't like and wouldn't talk about or, you know, suggest anyone pays any attention to. And a lot of brands have, again, one or two or three watches that I absolutely adore. So I'm not sure there's any brands that I've absolutely kind of turned my back on. I went through a phase probably in the... I'd have to look back. I keep a... I used to keep a spreadsheet of all the watches I had owned and for how long and the rest of it. And I think probably between 20 and 30 watches, my first... So the... Or let's say maybe from 10 until 30. So the 20 in there, I owned several watches by Orient.
Unknown	Oh, yeah.
James	And that's a brand that I haven't owned or looked at in years. I don't think I didn't give up on them. I just kind of maybe I tried everything I thought I was pretty interested in. And now when I see them, I always think it reminds me of one of those 20 or so watches way back. And I haven't seen anything from the brand that they've made in the last five to seven years, something like that. So I think that's how it would hit me. I don't think I've ever given up on a brand, but I also don't I don't pull hard for whole brands. I don't think there's many brands that have great whole lineups, especially when you get into the classic brands. I mean, there's some small sort of independent brands and micro brands like Hallios, where I think pretty much everything they make is lovely and people should consider buying and owning and I think you'd enjoy it. But when you get to a big name brand, I would say most of it, most of it's in the gray space. And then on either end, there's some really great stuff and some stuff that I actually think it would be actively not that great. And that's more or less how I see brands. What do you figure, Jason?
Jason Heaton	Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, Autodrome is an interesting example because a lot of their stuff of late has been quite retro, quite, you know, retro, not in group B, you know, 1980s retro, but, you know, 1940s, 50s, very vintage feeling. So a lot of their watches really go from one era to a completely different era. There isn't necessarily an overarching design language that you see in every one of their watches, other than the kind of inspiration from auto racing. But the Group B is the one that has always spoken to me the most, which tells me that their more modernist designs are the ones that resonate with me more. I also think that it's better to look at individual watches than entire brands, I guess if there was a brand that I just didn't get, I wouldn't say I gave up on them, but early on, I just did not get Doxa at all. You know, I used to see them on the forums and people used to, you know, post pictures of them. And I was like, what, you know, what's the story with their garish, the dial's too small, the case shape is weird, that bezel sticks up too high. Well, I mean, we know where the story went from there. I own several and love the brand, love their watches. But I think, You know, another watch that maybe I gave up on and came back to several times was the Speedmaster. I think I owned four of them before I finally found one that stuck. And I think it was the right vintage one that kind of spoke to my sense of history and kind of interest in the watch itself. And I still have it. That's not to say I wear it a ton, but I kind of knew in the back of my mind that I wanted a Speedmaster. I just never found one. I, you know, had modern ones and slightly more vintage ones. But then once I found the one that I kept, it just stuck. So I think, you know, the moral of the story, it sounds like for us is, you know, look at individual watches and not entire brands and make that call. And if something doesn't work for you, move on. It doesn't work for you.
James	Yeah. Check out a group B. I think you'd be happy with it. They're cool. They're cool things. All right. Let's jump to another one from Phil, who's got a question about ReSharp Milk.
Phil	Hi, James and Jason. My name is Phil and I live near Philadelphia. Love your podcast. You guys do a great job. My question is regarding a watch brand that you don't discuss all too often on TGN, Richard Mille. You've answered questions in the past about how much a beating a watch can take and what activities one should or shouldn't engage in while wearing a mechanical watch. My question is, is there anything about how Richard Mille watches are made or what materials are used inside of them and make them tougher than other brands? Reason I ask is that several professional athletes wear them while competing. For example, Rafa Nadal, the tennis player, and Bubba Watson, the golfer, both of them play sports that likely inflict a lot of force, aggressive movements on their watches, but neither of them are ever seen competing without their Richard Mille watches on their wrist the whole time. Curious to get your thoughts. Thanks again for all that you guys do. Keep up the great work.
James	All right, Jason, I think you have more personal experience abusing a Richard Mill than I do. I've perhaps written about more Richard Mills than you have, I'm not sure.
Jason Heaton	Yeah, I've had some hands-on time with two different Richard Mills, the 028, which was the diver, and then the RM35, which was the Stallone watch with the water purification tablets. Both very cool. I certainly didn't abuse them any more than I have any other watches. You know, hiking to a mountain hut or diving in the Caribbean isn't the most abusive thing you can do. Probably far less than swinging a golf club or a tennis racket. I also think the thing to note is that these athletes that you see wearing them very, very likely didn't buy them. I mean, with some exceptions, I suppose. But so, you know, if one happened to break or really get out of whack, um, during competition, you know, we probably wouldn't hear about that. They would just get quietly replaced. Um, but I think one thing that struck me was, uh, James, you might know more about the materials they use in detail, but I, one thing that struck me was I remember years ago at SIHH being handed one of their watches by their PR person and, and being told that, that the movement was suspended using these cables and pulley systems that sort of suspended the watch and almost like a, uh, a netting. you know, so to speak, so that it really absorbed the, the, the shock and vibration. I don't remember which watch that was, but I think they've used that in a few different scenarios. And, uh, I believe those little cables use something called Dyneema, uh, which is a, the material they use for rigging on modern, like ocean racing, sailboats, um, very tough materials. And then this pulley system was kind of used to, to keep the movement suspended, uh, and largely immune from shock. So I think that level of engineering speaks to. the seriousness of their thought about keeping these watches safe from harm. In terms of the carbons and the other materials that they use, James, I don't know if you have more insight on that, but certainly they're very light and clearly very durable for what they're willing to put them up to.
James	Yeah, I mean, Phil, I think the easy answer to your question is yes, absolutely. They've designed several movement structures that are specifically meant to support the movement and the balance and that sort of thing against very considerable G-forces. So the most recent one that I wrote about was actually the RM2704, which is the fifth generation of the Nadal watch for the, I believe, the 10th anniversary of their partnership with Nadal. And this one's a little bit heavier than the really famous one. But this one can also withstand 12,000 G's. I'm not even sure how you test that. I'm sure there's a specific machine that's used, and that's the highest of any of their watches, the accelerative forces of 12,000 G's. And yeah, the big thing that I think stands out is obviously the watch itself is very light, which means you have less inertia. Um, in, in whatever scenario it's in, there's less weight to move around and to slow down and to speed up. Uh, so that means theoretically that would help towards, uh, resisting certain types of forces, uh, or maybe just certain types of forces having less effect on the mass of the watch. Uh, and then from, from a more easily understood standpoint, yeah, the, the 2704 has like a, it looks like a tennis racket weave. of these tiny braided metal cables. In this case, they're not Dyneema, but Richard Mills done other ones where the cables kind of around the aperture of the dial and then fits into a tensioner. The 2704 has two tensioners that are really gorgeous things to just kind of look at and marvel at, but they support this... It's 855 square millimeters of netting, of this metal netting. Uh, and then, yeah, it's, it's, it's an, it's this incredibly, and then that supports the entire structure of the case and, and the movement kind of hangs from that, that system. Um, and, and the whole watch weighs 30 grams. So when I say it's so light that like swinging your arm around actually would, you'd notice it less. A normal watch on a bracelet is maybe 150 to 180 grams. maybe even more like 200. And then if you go to something like, I'm just trying to think of an example, I believe the platinum kind of ice blue dial Daytona from a few years ago was something like 285 grams, for example. So it's a tenth of the weight, including the strap. For this example, I've had on one of their other lightest watches, which is the one they made for McLaren's F1 team. and Alonso. And it had like a sewn in fabric strap. So it's just this tiny piece of elastic is what holds it to your wrist. It was like a million dollars or something. They handed it to me at their booth at SIHH. It's a very special thing to get to hold for a moment. And they really are these wonderful things. And yeah, I don't think the fact that they're willing to put the watch on a tennis star that's also lost one of them before or had it stolen. I don't think that I don't think that's pure. It is pure marketing, but I don't think there's any kind of untruth to it. The watch is on his wrist when he's playing tennis. I don't know how well it runs before or after. That's obviously not something anyone's talking about, but from what they've designed and from what they've done and from a space that really nobody else is competing with them on this sort of endeavor to make these watches that can be capable of these various super high G sports. I think they do just a lovely job. I view them like supercars, like they're the Pagani of the watch world. They don't make every part that goes into the watch and it's sourced from all sorts of different things, but they're always using the most incredible materials and they have this kind of very unified sense of design. And yet there's one way of looking at it is to get upset when somebody writes about it and say, well, this is a million dollars, I can't afford it, this sucks. The other thing is to say like, yeah, of course, I can't afford it. I can't afford it either. It's still super cool that it's out there. You know, there's only a couple of them. I just love this stuff like this exists, whether it's a super car like a Pagani, like a Zonda or a Huayra or something like like a Richard Mille. But yeah, I think that they specifically go out of their way to make watches that that can withstand things like tennis and golf. And that's why they've kind of partnered with those with those worlds to to promote it. Automotive racing, too, I suppose.
Jason Heaton	Well, good question, Phil. You're right. We haven't talked about Richard Mille a lot and maybe we will more in the future. Let's move on to a question from Neil about the La Mania 5100 movement.
Neil	Hi, James and Jason. This is Neil from Champaign, Illinois. If somebody uses a chronograph every day, I would love your opinion on why the La Mania 5100 with the Central Minutes hand, which was so easy to read, was discontinued. And why everybody went to the Valjoux 7750, which is a little bit harder to read. Thank you so much for all you do. Would love to hear from you. Bye bye.
James	Hey, Neil, that's a great question. One that actually ties back to the previous episode where we spoke about this movement and my kind of General discomfort with the usability of most chronographs. Actually, since that went live, I've had a chance to be wearing the new Aquastar Deepstar for a couple of weeks now. And it's great because you have this giant minute counter. So super, super handy. Maybe not quite as clear as a 5100, but this Le Jouperé movement that they selected for the Aquastar was a great choice and it's very legible. As to your question, my assumption is that it's a mix of cost. The Valjoux, the 7750 is, you know, my assumption is quite a bit cheaper to produce or was already being produced in a cheaper fashion, a less expensive fashion from a raw cost. And then the other side of it is I think that the 5100 and its legibility is something that only maybe insiders slash chronograph nerds are aware of. And when you're making a mass market product, I don't think that you make, I don't know that many mass market products like something that would use a 7750. I don't know that many of them are designed with legibility being their key pursuit, maybe from a brand like Zen. They'll make special efforts, but I think in many cases it's a chronograph, it's a chronograph, it's a chronograph. It's got three sub-dials, you kind of pick where the date goes and you move forward. What do you figure, Heath? I mean, most of these things almost always come down to cost, right? Yeah, I think so. Cost or some sort of politics within the Swiss watch industry, maybe whoever owned the rights to the 5100 couldn't sort it out or there was a battle or who knows. There's usually something like that in the past.
Jason Heaton	Right. And I think Lamania was absorbed or bought long ago by the Breguet group and the Swatch group. And I also heard that the Lamania 5100 and maybe more movement savvy people can chime in here, but it was a bit of a fragile movement and it had a certain switching cam or something that was prone to failure. And I think, uh, you know, that might've been one reason behind the fact that that it was discontinued. I think the Valjoux 7750, which came out in, I think, 1972, just overwhelmed the market at the time, you know, during the seventies and eighties when the quartz crisis was in full swing. Um, you know, to have this, this inexpensive Valjoux movement, um, that was just used by everybody for building chronographs, uh, you know, probably just overwhelmed the, the, the market that, that the Lamania was competing in. I think there have been attempts to recreate that. I know that Zen, I think it was the one 42, Recently, they kind of made a different movement work like a 5100. And I think Damasco also does something similar. So if you're looking for that level of chronograph legibility with a central minutes sweep hand, you might look to one of those recent Zins that does that. I also am reminded of this watch that I had for a short time that had incredible legibility and that was the the Tag Heuer Aquagraph, which was a central minutes dive chronograph with pushers that could be used underwater. It was really a tremendous watch that has not gotten enough praise in the market.
James	That's the steel bezel and the yellow accents?
Jason Heaton	Yeah, yeah, just a great watch.
James	Yeah, those are super cool.
Jason Heaton	Yeah, they wore kind of top heavy and small, strangely, but when I look back on it, it was really a tremendous watch. But yeah, check out the Zinn... I think it's the 142ST that they came out with just a few years ago, They sort of re-engineered the Lemania 5100, probably using either a Sellita or a Valjoux base. But yeah, you're right, Neil. The Lemania 5100 is certainly a very legible chronograph, and I do wish something like that would come around again. Cool.
James	Great question. Next up, we'll grab one from Cedric about ultramarine watches.
Cedric	Hi, guys. This is Cedric from Bishop, California. My question today is if you're familiar with the Ultramarine watches. One of their watches looks a bit like the Rolex Explorer, but what I find interesting is that they're very clear about who makes what on their watches, unlike most other watch brands. Hope you're all staying safe and enjoying the last bits of summer and take care. Thanks.
James	Hey Cedric, thanks very much for your question. As far as a brand, I've never heard of Ultramarine before. I don't think I've ever come across any of them. They definitely make a model called the Albatross. That is, you know, in some ways definitely looks inspired by 14270. Yeah, but Jason, have you come across these at all?
Jason Heaton	No, I mean, I don't know what else to say. I don't have much of a response for this because I have never heard of them. I did take a quick peek at their website when I first listened to your question, Cedric, but no, I don't. don't know anything about them. There's just so many brands out there that I've never heard of and they pop up every day.
James	Yeah. And I mean the other one, and maybe this is where they kind of got, so they're using an Eterna movement. So you remember those movements that were launched, the 39 series that was launched a few years back, Jason? Yeah. and it's a 40 millimeter watch. It kind of is just a different handset on otherwise a pretty similar dial, different case as well than a Explorer. And it looks like they made 100 of the Albatross in gray. They're 1,900 euros. So it's 2,200 bucks, which is definitely a discount over what you would pay for a 14270 or a 114270. These are a little bit bigger. At 40, these are much more comparable to a 214270. a current spec, a 39 millimeter. Yeah, I mean, for me, I would want the 36 millimeter sizing, which they may offer on the page here. I haven't really dug through everything that they have as far as options, but at $2,300, I'd probably lean towards a brand that I have more experience with. That said, I mean, they look good. That's a really tough price point to operate at as a sort of independent. know, you've got some pretty great looking watches under that price point from brands like Manta and Farer, that they do a lovely job and operate with, I would say, more proven movements than the Caliber 39. That was kind of a big deal when Eterna announced that they were doing it. But it's not a movement you see that commonly in watches. And that could be a price thing, it could be an availability thing, it could be... Yeah, who knows? There's probably a number of different reasons to go that route, but certainly a nice looking watch. I would want to... I would do the normal due diligence in reading what everybody else online has said about it before I considered investing that much money in something I probably can't put my hands on beforehand. What do you figure?
Jason Heaton	Yeah, I think that's a good point. Um, you know, I think, uh, with any of these brands that pop up, uh, or, or that you've run across, um, by all means, if you're going to spend that kind of money, I think with a, you know, a hundred, $200, $500 watch, even you could probably take a bit of a flyer on it, but, uh, when it's something a bit more expensive, be nice to, uh, to be able to handle one first, or at least get some, some real world feedback from somebody who has.
James	Yeah. And, and the last thing I would say is it is absolutely less money than simply buying an Explorer. But maybe also just dig around and see what's available to you, however you like to buy your watches, if you're comfortable buying online and from second-hand sources, then I would also just look, because if you buy something like an Explorer 14270, a 114270, the 36mm ones, or spend a considerable more money and bump your way up to a 214270, you're not gonna see the same depreciation that you will from a micro brand. So while you might be putting up more money at the front, on the other side, if you need that money back, it's closer to a savings account that's shaped like a watch than it is a watch that will depreciate a certain percentage moments after it hits the market, especially with a brand that maybe isn't super well known. Yeah. Keep your eyes open for reviews from channels that you trust, and go that route. Certainly a good-looking watch, and always nice to see more brands hitting the radar, as it were.
Jason Heaton	Yeah, thanks for sending that over, Cedric. We'll keep an eye on that. Let's move on to a question from John about Land Rovers. Oh, boy.
John	Hey, guys. This is John in Richmond. I saw Jason posted a few weeks back that his Land Rover suffered a broken rear half axle. and that it was the first time he had it towed, having owned it for about three years. I am someone who's interested in cars. I have never had a pleasure car. My wife and I just share a little Honda. But I was wondering to hear, you know, having owned a Land Rover 90, whether you think it's worth it. Obviously, there's a lot of barriers to entry. They're expensive, especially if you want to get one of the North American spec models from the mid 90s. Uh, so I was just wondering, you know, what were your first steps? How did you think about getting into old cars? How did you decide which one to buy? And then, you know, just what are some reflections on having owned it, having been in it, having had to maintain it and, uh, really appreciate your time. Thanks.
James	All right, Jason. I think this one's, uh, I think this one's pretty squarely for you.
Jason Heaton	Yeah. So this, uh, this Land Rover series three that I bought, uh, over three years ago now is actually the second Car old car that I've owned that had a reputation of being unreliable. I had an Alfa Romeo Spider before this that I owned for 10 years and I was so pleasantly surprised with that car In how reliable it was over time. It never stranded me. I never broke down Just kind of regular maintenance over the decade that I had it And then I sold it and had a couple of years without an old car. And I always wanted a Land Rover. And, you know, the first ones that I drove, there was a local guy who sells right-hand drive diesel Defenders. And I started driving a couple of his and was kind of headed down that route. But there was a bit of a delay in kind of making that happen. And I came across this 1976 Series 3 on Craigslist for very cheap. cheaper than a lot of watches I own cheap. And, um, I kind of, kind of took a chance. I went out and test drove it. I was on the phone with a friend of mine in Michigan, uh, who has had a series two, a Land Rover for 20 years and he knows everything about them. And so I was taking pictures and sending them to him, talking to him on the phone while I was looking at this. He told me the points to look at and questions to ask. And, um, ultimately I, I bought it with very little, you know, sleeping on it. And so it was a bit of a risk, but I think I had thought about it long enough that and had the means to buy this. So it wasn't a financial stretch, which is a very key thing when you're doing something like this. Um, but you know, like with anything, whether it's a watch, a house, a cabin, a car, you know, just research the common issues, look at the reputation, um, investigate local resources, parts availability, Um, talk to other owners. Um, but one, one thing I would suggest is also, you know, get encouragement from people who love these things and who own them and who have, you know, put in the time to, to keep them running and, and, and enjoy driving them because the cliche you hear about Land Rovers or Alfa Romeos or whatever it might be, British sports cars is, You know, Oh, these are, these will just be a headache. They'll, they'll drain your wallet. You'll be breaking down on the side of the road every week. And if you get too far down that path and you read too much of those warnings, you'll never buy one. I think, you know, my enthusiasm for owning an old British truck and all of its history and everything that goes into it. It greatly outweighed those words of warning. And I'm so glad I did this. And as you noted, I have only had one stranding, and that was when the half axle broke, and that was only a few blocks from home. And it was more due to age than it was the unreliability of the vehicle. So these are very simple creatures. You mentioned the North American spec Defender 90. That was from the mid-1990s. Um, so very, not very different, but, but quite a bit more modern vehicle than, than the one I have. And, um, and the price will reflect that. And the fact that it's left-hand drive and suited for American roads, um, makes a difference in the price. But, uh, you know, in terms of, um, you know, getting an old one, like I said, you know, talk to a lot of people. If you can test drive a few, make sure that you're suited for them. It's a, it's a small car. It's not very comfortable. It's very noisy. And it requires a lot of inputs to drive. There's a lot of shifting, there's a lot of the, you know, the steering is very stiff, the driving position isn't terribly comfortable. So you really have to love these things. It's not the kind of thing you buy, I would say, on a whim. Unless you're just, you know, filthy rich and you're willing to take a flyer and park it in the garden if you don't like it. And then finally, I would just say, watch a lot of YouTube and start to follow a lot of people on Instagram that own these things and fix them. I have gotten so much input. I think I know how to rebuild this truck from bumper to bumper in my head, just from watching all of the YouTube videos of people that have, you know, changed water pumps and springs and drive shafts and, you know, everything from, you know, uh, ignition switches and light bulbs to, to seats. Um, it's all out there. Um, and we live in a great era that you can get all of that information on YouTube in video, um, rather than have to thumb through a kind of a, badly illustrated service manual, which was the case, you know, not, not even that long ago. So, yeah, John, you know, feel free to, to ping me, send me a direct message if you want on Instagram at Jason Heaton, you know, if you've got one you're looking at, or if you have any further questions about specifically about the old series trucks, I'm not as well versed in, in newer stuff like a Defender or a Range Rover or anything like that.
James	Yeah, those are all great tips. You know, the only thing that I would add is very general advice. John said that he's in Richmond, which could mean Virginia, or it could mean, I don't know, Richmond, BC, near Vancouver, or any other Richmond. But if you can buy one from the West Coast, all the better. And I would not sweat mechanical stuff, because these things will always break mechanically. They're old, especially if you're looking at like a Series 2, Series 3, the old ones. But I would sweat stuff like electronics. and how well the previous owner took care of that, and then rust. Because replacing a half axle or a water pump or whatever is a mechanical endeavor that has a start and an end point. If you invest in a vehicle with rust, you will be chasing that rust for as long as you own it, for sure. So those would be my only heads up, but a great question. And yeah, I would love to hear what you decide on between There's so many there's so many trucks out there. It's endless. Yeah, good one. All right. Next up, we've got one from Trey about adventurous women.
Trey	Hey, Jason and James, this is Trey Elvis Hansen from Salt Lake City. I'm a big fan of the show as well as Hodinkee, and I'm really looking forward to reading Depth Charge when it comes out. I'd like to preface my question by saying that I am constantly amazed by and proud of the woman that I'm in a relationship with. She's summited Kilimanjaro, completed a barefoot climb of Crowpatrick in Ireland, Attempted the unassisted speed record of the Appalachian Trail and more, largely as a solo traveler. She's even persisted through blood infections, a broken neck, a broken back. For those of you curious, you can be followed at Catherine M Jones on YouTube and on Instagram. And in line with that, my question to both of you is, who are some adventurous, talented, and or hardcore women that we should be following, promoting, and then just overall supporting? Thank you so much for the show. Uh, appreciate it.
Jason Heaton	Wow, Trey, a great question. You know, I, I think, uh, I think it's definitely a, uh, an overlooked or, or maybe neglected category, um, in the space of adventure. I think that is changing. I think you can find a lot of, uh, adventurous women to, to follow or stories about adventurous women on some of the favorite. Uh, sites and blogs and publications that James and I follow like adventure journal or sidetracked. They do a lot of stuff with, uh, With women that are leading expeditions and doing some cool stuff. Yeah. And outside online. Outside online. Yeah. Um, I follow a couple, um, inspirational kind of adventure women on Instagram. Um, first up is my wife, uh, Gishani R. If you want to follow her, she's a amazing underwater photographer and, um, I'm fortunate to share adventures with her. Um, but professionally, you know, there are a couple of other women that I follow. One is a woman named Megan Hine. She lives in North Wales. She's British and she happens to be the sort of fixer and safety ropes person for a lot of the shows that Bear Grylls has done over the years and various sort of National Geographic television specials and things where they're doing, you know, filming in jungles and deserts and remote places. And she has an incredibly upbeat personality. She does some, inspirational and motivational speaking on both her Instagram feed. I've heard her interviewed in a couple of podcasts and, and she's done a Ted talk and, and she's just great. Um, she does a lot with her dog and she, when she's has some downtime, she's in North Wales running in the mountains. And, um, so she's just a lot of fun. And then another one that, that I can recommend is, uh, a woman named Kit DeLaurier. Uh, I think that's how she pronounces her name. She's, I believe, based in Jackson, Wyoming. She's a, a mother and, uh, you know, lives out there, um, full-time mother out there. But, um, she and her husband, Rob are incredible ski mountaineers. And I believe Kit, if I'm not mistaken, if not being the first woman to ski down Everest, she might've been one of the first people to successfully ski Everest from top to bottom or something. I'd have to double check that, but, uh, incredibly accomplished ski mountaineer. She, she's done several expeditions with Jimmy Chin. Um, And also seems to be a pretty humble kind of humorous person, uh, with her, um, Instagram feed. She, I think she recently saw something. She like took her, her toddler aged kid, like in a backpack, like climbing up one of the Grand Teton or something crazy like that. But, uh, just, just inspirational and fun to see, you know, her doing the stuff she's doing and kind of not, not pausing her life for, you know, the real. the real world work of raising a kid and just getting out there and doing stuff and so I would recommend those two and Yeah, always always game to hear about others. So if you have any let us know
James	Yeah, I agree with a lot of what Jason said, and while I'm really not in the mode of following or we're spending a lot of time looking at other people's Instagrams, the two that I would recommend would be Kelly Edwards, K-E-L-L-E-E. She's a pretty remarkable person in general, but she works for the Travel Channel. You can find her on Instagram. It's Kelly, so K-E-L-L-E-E, set, go, S-E-T-G-O. She's got a ton of followers, and she's a pilot and an explorer, a scuba diver. She hosts various things for the Travel Channel and otherwise, and every now and then someone will send me a link of something else that she's worked on, and I'm always pretty impressed, and she's doing things her own way, which I think is pretty fun. The other woman that I followed for some time and I like, she's written some stuff for Outside Online about you know, being a woman in the professional athlete space and, and, and Instagram and the rest of it. And that would be Caroline Gleach or Gleich. I'm not entirely sure how you say your last name, a pretty famous athlete, but you know, and she does all sorts of stuff, but she's a pretty fun, fun account as well to follow. So those would be my two recommendations, but certainly it's, it's probably just about endless, especially if you're in the mode of following a lot of people on Instagram. I find that if you follow too many people, it really becomes untenable and you pretty much only see whatever they want to show you from the 15 accounts that have the highest level of engagement. Uh, you know, it used to be kind of a different scene on Instagram as far as being able to follow people and see everything. Um, but yeah, I think, uh, I think that's a good start and certainly, uh, Trey, uh, a fun question and, uh, uh, you know, congrats on, on finding what sounds like an amazing partner. Uh, moving on, we've got, uh, one from Frederick about pre-owned watches.
Frederick	Hello, James and Jason. I have a question about servicing a watch and the feeling of ownership. Would you consider a full service with a complete refurbishment of a watch, hands, dials, etc.? The reason I ask is because I own an Omega Speedmaster. I bought it to celebrate my graduation from university in 2014, but my headache is that the watch was bought used. The watch is originally from 2004, thus making it 10 years older than me, making it 10 years older than the time it has spent with me. The movement was completely serviced, but the case was unpolished. Luckily, the previous owner never really used the watch. It was like new when I bought it, yet somehow now, six years later, I keep thinking that the watch is someone else's. Like it's older than me, and like our time together is distorted. I hope this makes sense. My headache was further strengthened by reading the article My First Watch, where Danny Milton talks about his Rolex being made anew. But I also keep returning to the other article about From You Jason, called Fantasies of Being a One Watch Guy, inspired by GMT from the Jungle. Sort of wanting that one watch with a full story that's just mine, So my thoughts are either to sell the Speedmaster and buy a brand new one, or to sell it and buy a Tudor 58 Blue, a Black Bay 58 Blue, and then make that my own watch, or to have the Speedmaster serviced and purposely replace the dial hands, making it new for me. I would like to hear your thoughts on this. Thank you for a great show. This is Frederik from Denmark.
James	Hey Frederick, that's an interesting question. Something I've never really thought about. I really like used watches. I like that there's not a lineage, but just a lasting quality to a watch that it can move from one person to another. I mean, cars only get so many owners typically before they're gone. they disintegrate or they finally hit that seventh owner that doesn't do any of the service and they just kind of fall apart. But this sounds like the last owner appreciated it. He didn't wear it that much, but he did have it serviced. That's a good sign. And then it came to you. And I think these are things that... Look at all the stuff that hits an auction. It's worth more if it had one owner for sure, but these are all pretty special things because they last. That's part of the charm. If your interest in having the watch be just yours is enough to take away from the ownership experience of having this Speedmaster, then forget what Heatner and I tell you, just go ahead and have it... Replace it, get something that you absolutely love to wear that doesn't have this kind of mental block for you. That's the only purpose of these things is in some way to try and make you feel happy or or whatever, and I think it doesn't really matter what anyone else might say. In my mind, I would never have this concept that it was somebody's previously, and thus it doesn't align. I bought my 2007-ish Explorer 2 for my 30th birthday, a long time after 2007. And yeah, I've never once thought of it that way. What do you think, Jason?
Jason Heaton	Yeah, I mean, it's a very Personal decision and if it's something that yeah that you'd be more comfortable with by all means go ahead and do it. I do think Personally that you're maybe overthinking it a little bit. I think there's there's no shame in having someone else's watch I think it's the nature of watches and that they do go on and on and on And then they're also inanimate objects that you know, they don't have a personality of their own They don't have a memory. They don't have inherent history other than maybe a scratch in them or a little DNA embedded under the under the lug. So be sure to read James's How to Clean Your Watch articles. Yeah, you can make it new. But I think, you know, take it, wear it, have your own adventures with it. It'll certainly become your own. It probably already has. To me, it feels a bit like an unnecessary expense to fiddle with a perfectly good watch to replace the dial on the hands. Um, just for this, this reason. But, uh, again, like, like we've all said, I think it's, it's, uh, comes down to a very personal decision and, uh, you know, whatever you do, just, uh, just enjoy the watch and maybe just don't overthink it too much.
James	Yeah. Good, good, uh, good poll and, and enjoy, uh, enjoy the Speedmaster, whether you keep it how it is or get it refurbished or flip it and find another one. And you certainly cannot go wrong with a Black Bay blue. Uh, that's a fantastic, uh, the 58 blues, a lovely thing as well. Next up, we've got one from Brian that just says, Baby Turtle.
Brian	Hey, James and Jason, this is Brian in Dallas, Texas. Wanted to thank you guys so much for the podcast. Been a real lifesaver during shelter in place in quarantine. My question is about the Seiko Baby Turtle. Why aren't more people on board with this watch? Seems like a great option to replace the XKX with a little bit of an upgraded movement, but just doesn't seem to be as popular with diehard Seiko fans. And follow up to that, do you guys put any sort of weight to the Japanese made Seikos versus the Malaysian or other country made Seikos? And is there a difference in your mind between a K version and a J version of a watch? And is it worth the $150 premium in the case of the Mini Turtle? Thanks again so much for what you guys do. Really appreciate the podcast.
Jason Heaton	Thanks for the question, Brian. Seiko Baby Turtle, you know, I think Seiko maybe suffers a little bit from having such a massive catalog. You know, they make so many watches and so many dive watches of so many different looks and configurations that I almost feel like the baby turtle was maybe a little bit forgotten. It didn't get a lot of buzz like some of the, you know, Willard and turtle and some of these, you know, big reissues that have come along the pipeline in the past couple of years. Um, I remember when this came out, but you know, I had to look it up. Like when you, when you mentioned it, Brian, in your question, to kind of re-familiarize myself with the look of it. I think it's a cool looking watch. I don't think, for me, it doesn't have the same appeal as either the SRP Turtles or the SKX. For some reason, the 3 o'clock crown looks a little awkward to my eye with that nice swoopy case. It just kind of looks a little bit bolted on the side for some reason. There's something about the asymmetry of the Turtle case and the SKX with that 4 o'clock crown that works a little bit better, but I do like the dial. I like the lack of the day, the 12 o'clock marker's cool, and I think those 20 millimeter strap widths are nice and versatile. Yeah. James, what do you think? Do you remember this watch? Do you like this watch?
James	Oh, absolutely. It's not one that I saw in person, and I think what happened... If I can make some... wild assumptions. I think this came out, you know, a little while after the SRP 77 series. And now it's the SRP, the normal turtle. I think this came out shortly after that. And yet, if you go on, I won't say what retailer this is, but I checked a few while Jason was giving you his side of the answer. You actually spend nearly $100 less to just buy a turtle. Like an SRP777 that I'm looking at now is $372. And an SRPC39J1, which is the Japanese version of the blue baby turtle, Seiko baby turtle, is $449. I'm not sure that lines up. It is a smaller watch, but again, the normal Seiko turtle, the 777, is a big watch that wears much smaller than you'd expect. It's still a big watch. Nobody's going to tell you any different than that, but I don't think there's going to be a massive difference between the, whatever it is, 43.7 or 44.1 or whatever it is of a Seiko 777 and the 42.3 of the baby turtle. My guess is that it's a question of how quickly the SRP, the standard turtle came down to its street price. And it may have just seemed like a much hotter ticket. This is a watch that came out kind of just after another very popular option. And it could have been just one of those in the way that like the waves of popularity work, where everybody spent their 400 bucks on a 777. And then a year later, eight months later, whatever it was, the baby turtles came out and everybody said, well, I already got a turtle. Yeah, I think they're great. And then, you know, the other side of the question was whether or not a J versus a K or otherwise. As far as that, it's never been an issue for me. If you have the option, if you're buying right when the watch hits the market, I would certainly, you know, get the J. Why not? It's kind of fun. Watch from its home country, et cetera, et cetera. But look, Seiko knows how to make these watches to a certain level of quality. you know, there's always going to be jokes or whatever about bezel alignment and chapter ring alignments and the accuracy of some of these, some of their more accessible movements. But I don't think one factory to another is going to make any difference for a country, a company the size of Seiko and their ability to produce the number of watches that they do. They're used to doing it in different places. I would have trouble believing one would be vastly different in quality. I mean, I think my My original SKX007 is a K, maybe a K1, and that's never bothered me. And when I have family that go in to buy, I just tell them you buy whatever one's the best price. I wouldn't worry too much about J versus K. If you're collecting, certainly go for the J. Feel great about it, for sure. But if you just want a watch to wear around, I don't think it's going to make any difference. And in five years or whatever, if this is your day-to-day, it's going to have to get serviced anyways, and the next watchmaker will tune it up. It'll be fine. I wouldn't sweat over something like that.
Jason Heaton	Yeah, good advice. Good question. Moving on to a question from Jesse. I think, James, this is going to be one for you about Canadian pricing.
Unknown	Hi, James and Jason. This is Jesse calling in from Elmira, Ontario, not too far from James. My question is actually a little bit more of a Canadian-based question, I guess, and that is, how do you guys deal with the feeling of pricing on a watch? For me, I'm having a hard time dealing with or coming to terms with what I see prices valued at when I read about them online, which is largely US based, versus what I can actually purchase them for in Canadian dollars. An example of that would be like the new Zodiac GMT. I think the watch seems to be worth every penny of $1,700. But yet I get a little bit of a sour taste in my mouth when I start thinking about it as 22 or $2,300 in Canadian. I'm just wondering what your guys thoughts are on this and how you may manage to deal with something like that. Thanks a lot for your time and take care.
James	Yeah, just I mean that that's a good question. Certainly one that I can broach. You know I paid full retail price in USD for my. SPB 143 and then, of course, paid the taxes and the duties coming into the country. So that ended up being a vastly more expensive version of that watch than if I just waited and bought it in the States at a later date, just because of the import taxes and duties and all that kind of stuff. But the other side of it, the cost versus the US listed cost versus the Canadian cost, and of course, any of our Australians Uh, listeners are screaming right now, uh, because they're the Delta for them between. The quote unquote, you know, known us market costs and, and then what everything costs in, in Australia is huge, much more massive, uh, for some things than, than what we're used to between the U S and Canada. But for me, it just comes down to, if you want the watch, you want it at the, at the, at the price, you're actually going to have to pay for it. But I've had lots of watches. The Zen would be a recent one, a U50. I definitely consider trying to make one of those happen. And I think if the dollar was closer to parity and not 30% apart, or the better part of 30% apart, I probably would have tried to make that happen. But when you factor for the additional in the currency and the additional in the taxes and the rest of it, it totally changes the value statement of a watch. And I think you just have to look at the landed costs of the watch and remake your decision. It is always easier. Uh, and, and certainly even on, on this program, we tend to quote us prices, but it's a whole different world for some watches. And when the, when the watch itself starts out, you know, at a decent price, an expense, what I would call a more expensive option, like a Zodiac at $1,700, then by the time you do that math, it's become even more so, you know, it's not like going from 200, $250 or 200 or $300. as you might with some watches, it's a big jump in cost. And I think it's definitely worth considering. And I agree that at times it is a deal breaker when you do the exchange and you do the shipping and you do the taxes and the rest of it. And hey, that's the way things go. Sometimes things feel like a good deal when it makes it all the way to your wrist. And certainly I was okay spending the premium for that Seiko, very happy with it and really love that watch. But there's other watches that haven't passed that muster. Typically, once you start talking into the $2,000 to $3,000 to $4,000 to $5,000. The math gets pretty expensive once it gets here. It's a big premium you pay to operate in CAD. So I feel you, Jesse. I'm sure one way or another, all of the great watches will find us up here in the true north at some point. Thanks very much for that question. Let's jump on to one from Tom about Greynados.
Tom	Hey Jason and James, this is Tom from Columbus, Ohio. I've got kind of a couple, two silly questions, but I'm really curious as to what your thoughts are on these. The first one, Which is the absolute best watch for a grey NATO? Well, I know that the great part about a grey NATO is the versatility, but what is the absolute best watch on a grey NATO? Something tells me it's either a Doxa or an Explorer 2 Polar. And my second question is, I'm a watch guy. I have plenty of watches. What do you do when you're late and everybody knows that you're a watch guy and they just give you so much crap about it? Uh, of course it's jokingly, uh, but, but do you guys have any stabs back at them? Uh, about, Hey, uh, yeah, I know you're always rocking a watch. How about you're on time kind of thing. Uh, I'm curious as to what your guys's responses are. Thank you. See you guys. Bye.
Jason Heaton	Wow. Tom, a tough questions there. Um, but that's what we're here for. The tough questions. Um, best watch for a grain NATO boy. You know, I tend to think that some watches look best on the strap they were originally designed for. In many cases, I think James might have very different answers from me, and the two watches you mentioned I know are watches that he enjoys on a grey NATO. For me, I tend to think a Doxa works really well on the beads of rice, the original style, the old ones. They do work well on NATOs. Some Rolexes work well on NATOs. I think the Explorer II does, but for some reason I have, you know, a couple of these CWC watches. In fact, I'm wearing the RAF chronograph right now. And I think a watch that was like originally designed to wear on a gray NATO strap, an Admiralty gray, you know, MOD issue NATO strap, like, you know, a Mark 11 IWC or a Millsub or a CWC, something that I feel is a bit more stark and almost military in its demeanor, looks really, really good on a gray NATO strap. I think, you know, other watches don't look as great. I've tried my gray NATO on like a yellow dial Doxa. I've tried it on, I don't know, you know, a few other pieces and it just doesn't quite sing like it does on on a good kind of black and white, stark military looking watch. And that's kind of my take on that. James, you're actually even more of a NATO devotee than I am. I think you wear grey NATO on just about everything. So you probably have a very distinct answer for this.
James	Yeah, my answer is actually not almost any different from yours. I love my grey NATO on my 16570. I love the grey NATO on just about anything, but the watch is absolutely at home. The watch, the look, The look itself, if I put my 16570 on a Greynado, I'm simply emulating what I like about a Dirty Dozen watch on a Greynado or one of the... Yeah, the MOD, any MOD issued watch on a Greynado. It could be a cool Seiko, an older Seiko Chronograph, it could be a Mill Sub, it could be a CWC, it could be some rad old Grana or IWC or Longines or JLC or Omega. I think those watches are I think it's just perfect because they capture a wartime aesthetic in a very light manner. It's not wearing cargo pants, it's not wearing an army jacket, it's not wearing a hat that you have no business to be wearing in public. It's not wearing camo, which is something that I still can't warm up to, wearing camo as casual wear. But on the other hand, I do really like an old... There's something about... Yeah, something kind of very two-ish, with a military background on a Graynado, if it has welded lugs, welded spring bars, you're in business. That's the home base of the Graynado. And I think anything else that we might put a Graynado on is kind of bending it back towards the aesthetic of the Dirty Dozen, of the MODs, of the Broad Arrows, of the... of that kind of thing. And I think that's what I like about it. I think it looks incredible on a Polar. I think it looks great on a Doxa. But I think it looks absolutely at home on a military issued watch of any sort, a field watch, a dive watch. It could be any of them. I mean, it's really hard to beat a Matt Dial 5513 on a NATO. It just is. If I could afford one, I absolutely would. They're gorgeous. and they look perfect. But no, I think it definitely comes down to that kind of aesthetic starting point was with military watches, and I think that's where it still makes the most sense. And as far as your Yeah. As far as your friends being late, I, you know, Tom, I'd love to be able to help you here. I've never been late for anything in my whole life. I was going to say the same thing. I am all I am. I am perennially five minutes early to everything. I'm the guy that's at the airport two hours and five minutes ahead of the flight. I'm just not I'm almost never late and it would it would I would be like if somebody made a joke to me about me being late for something, whether it was because I'm into watches or otherwise. I would I would have already, you know, you know, mentally flogged myself for for not managing my time correctly. I'm just a very, very much an on time type of person. So it's not not a joke that I've come across. If anything, I probably just get credit. You know, it's because I like watches that I'm always on time. But I think, yeah, I don't know. It's one of the people people come in those three varieties. There's people who are kind of always on time. There's people who are always kind of late. and there's people who are kind of pathologically a little bit early for everything. And I definitely fall into the latter, so.
Jason Heaton	Yep, I would agree.
James	I'm always early and I have no... Yeah, we always end up standing outside of places together.
Jason Heaton	So sorry we can't help you, Tom.
James	They say 7 o'clock and you and I get there at 6.50. Yeah, exactly. I guess we'll just wait outside until they actually start. But yeah, a good question, Tom, and put your great NATO on whatever you want. Don't let anyone tell you anything, but it's going to look best on a really cool military design. Definitely good option. A good if you if you want to feel it. Yeah. CWC is probably your easiest route in to that to that world. Next up, we have a question from Alan. We're cutting through these questions, Jason. I'm pretty proud. Yeah. Next up, we've got a question from Alan about swinging your arm to wind an automatic.
Alan	Hi, James and Jason. This is Alan from Evergreen, Colorado. I'm a TGN newbie, but love the show. You guys do great work. I was listening to the August Q&A a few weeks ago while walking home from taking my car to the shop. I was wearing my Maurice LaCroix automatic chronograph with it swinging gently at my side as I walked. I started to wonder if this gentle swinging motion is enough to wind the automatic movement. None of my watches have a power reserve complication, so I can't observe any changes in stored energy. Appreciate you guys. Take care. Goodbye.
Jason Heaton	Well, neither of us are watchmakers, so I'm not exactly sure the amount of arm swinging that is required to fully wind the watch. I'm not sure if your question was about, you know, getting the mainspring to a full wind.
James	I think he was just saying, like, if you're just casually walking around, Alan, I may be paraphrasing incorrectly here, but I think he was saying, like, if you're just kind of casually walking around, are you actively winding the watch? I would say yes.
Jason Heaton	Me too. Yeah. Yeah. I would say, you know, if you pick it up in the morning and it's dead and you set it and then strap it on without even hand winding it, give it a couple shakes, maybe walking to and from the garage to drop your car off and getting back home. and then taking it off and setting it down again, it probably would not run its full, you know, 30 hours or whatever it's rated for. But I think, you know, day-to-day wear, that's pretty much what's required.
James	Yeah, I mean, I think the actual, the winding mechanism is literally designed to be wound by that sort of movement. Walking around, zipping up your jacket, picking up your coffee cup, typing on your keyboard, like anything that would cause the watch to rotate on the axis that's activating the rotor would lead it to spin. And if you've got your Maurice Lacroix, it's likely a 7750 in there. So if you move your hand quickly, not only will you probably hear it, but you'll definitely feel a little bit of that rotor wobble. I used to get that from my Zen 144. Oh yeah. If I reached out to grab something quickly or just move my hand... Let's say the watch is flat, so you have to imagine what plane, what axis the... the rotating masses on. But if your watch is flat and you reach across the table to grab something quickly, so your hand moves in sort of a flat motion, when you stop, you can feel that rotor kind of snap into action. Yeah. So my guess is that the normal day of walking with your hand at your side and reaching into your pocket and picking up your phone and bringing it up and then as you stop, the inertia of the rotor would get a couple of winds. Absolutely. I think the watch is basically always winding. Yeah. Unless you're sitting very still. but certainly if you, if you, you see people who are very holding a very precious watch, you see this at, I don't know, a very high end watch manufacturer when they're showing off a watch and they'll pick it up. And if it's not running, they don't shake it violently. Like you see some people with a Seiko, you know, barely holding onto one of the straps and shaking it back and forth. They kind of, it's like a fall back and back and forth, like a rotating your wrist, almost like turning a key. Yeah. in a door, and that's kind of the idea is you want to build up some speed in the rotor. So my guess is, yeah, Alan, the watch is definitely winding as you walk around. Yeah, good question. Should we do one more? Yeah, let's do one more. We've got one from Jeff about our favorite strap and watch combos. Let's hear it.
Jeff	Hi, Jason and James. This is Jeff from San Francisco. I have a huge appreciation for your work, and I have a question that I think aligns well with the show in both name and spirit. Over the years, we have all learned so much from both of you regarding a vast range of watches and diverse aftermarket straps. Through all of your experiences, what are a couple of your all-time favorite more creative or avant-garde watch and strap combinations? These choices could relate to aesthetics and or functionality. For example, my personal favorite is a slightly faded early 2016 710 Pepsi GMT-Master II with the olive drab Bonetto Santorini 328 rubber NATO. This makes for an incredibly comfortable all-purpose sport and travel watch, but adds an unusual tricolor combination and almost a mil-spec pilot vibe to the watch. I've also found an old straight end link Gay Ferrer's beads of rice bracelet, which pairs incredibly well with an early 90s Speedmaster, giving it a totally different vintage vibe. If you could each pick two of your all time favorite combinations, giving the specific watch and specific strap, what would they be and what would be your thoughts and considerations behind each selection? Thank you again and looking forward to your answers.
James	All right, Jeff, that's a fun question. Jason, anything spring to mind? We can kind of go back and forth if you like.
Jason Heaton	Yeah, I mean, I thought of two, and I think one is one that we discussed with a question earlier, and that is, ever since I put my Doxa Teagraph, the vintage one, on a leather bund strap, it's such an unlikely pairing, but to me, I can't almost wear that watch any other way now. It just, it just looks like it was designed for it, which is so strange for a, you know, old dive chronograph to be worn on a kind of a chunky, thick, you know, pilot-y, sort of desert warrior sort of leather strap, but, uh, I, I can't wear it any other way. And I think it just looks tremendous. Um, so that'd be my first one. Uh, you have one in mind.
James	Uh, yeah, I mean, the, the ones that always stand out to me, it's, it's my, my, uh, 16, five 70 Explorer too. And it's on a NATO. Um, I'll bend the rules a little bit and to either go with your standard middle gray, toxic NATO strap, toxic NATO is now UTA or UTE and UTE is not selling straps anymore. Uh, so I guess as a backup to, to theirs, if they're not, uh, if they don't have anything in stock, when, when you hear this episode would be to check out, uh, the crown and buckle, uh, Supreme, which is a lovely NATO for a very fair price from a solid company. And yeah, they do a really nice gray. I also think that the, uh, white dial, any white doll watch, but certainly the white dial of the 16, five 70 Explorer two looks incredible on sort of a sand, a lighter tan. that's pretty much wearable with anything, that you could put the watch on that NATO and never take it off, it'd be just fine. So that would be kind of my first pick. What have you got for a second one?
Jason Heaton	My second one harkens back to an early trip I took to New York when I first started with Hodinkee, and Ben Clymer invited me and Blake Buettner out to New York to chat and talk strategy, et cetera, for a few days. And Ben had this faded out Rolex 5512 Submariner, with a grayed out bezel, I bet he still has it actually. And he had it, he was wearing it on kind of a faded, almost stained sand colored NATO. Probably like the one you were just describing for... Killer combo. And I don't know, it was something about that sand colored or tan NATO that picked up the patina in the dial markers and then offset that gray ghost bezel It just stuck with me ever, ever since, you know, then and ever even down to this day. And I have been fortunate to pick up a 55 12 a couple of years ago and that's how I wear it. When I, when I pull it out, um, I just put it on this sand colored NATO, which it's this very shabby looking strap. And if you wear a light colored strap, you know, like if you're wearing white pants or, or light khakis, inevitably you're going to spill something on it or sit in some dirt or something. And that's what always happens with that NATO. And certainly you can wash them, but they just kind of get that, faded, frayed, look better than almost any other kind of strap and it just looks so good on an old sub. So I think that and the T-Graph are my two picks.
James	Those are good picks. Yeah, it's a favorite look of mine and it works on so many different watches. So if we have to pick a watch and try and be specific, I would say my Vintage Skin Diver, my Sylvania. Oh yeah. on a vintage tropic. Oh yeah. There's something perfect about it, but it doesn't have to be the Sylvania, the same, the exact same. You basically just want it to be on an old or a new version of an old dive watch. It has to be kind of a 60s look to it. Yeah. So a skin diver, a DOCSIS Sub 300, the new Aqua Star, something like that, something with that aesthetic. And then on the tropic, it's just perfect. It feels just right. There's kind of not a season that it doesn't work in. It's a dive watch on a rubber strap, like it's a perfect pairing. And for all, but as long as you're in a casual mindset, I think it's perfect. I absolutely love it on a small, that Skin Diver's 36 millimeters. There's a nice taper to the strap that really suits the case. And then Tropic is cranking out new ones that are really lovely examples of a very similar look. So go old or new with your Tropic, old or new with the watch, Try and thread the needle on that late 60s, I dive a lot and you just happen to catch me above water look. And I think that's the one I would go for as far as the two. I think there's that nice pairing between, yeah, that sort of a sporty watch on a light colored NATO, whether it's a light gray or a tan. And then when it comes to a dive watch, typically with like a black dial, but it could be a Doxa with orange or something like that, and then throw it on a Tropic. they're just it's it's it's that perfect you know it's it's a spaghetti and meatballs or whatever yeah yeah so jeff that's a solid question and and you know what jason i we would just like to say thank you to everyone that's uh we've now answered 120 questions through the q a we got to all but just a couple uh that came in recently and they came in in october so they can be part of the october q a which you will get at some point in November. Anyone listening who enjoyed this, if you have a question, please record it into the voice memo on your phone, send it to thegrenadoatgmail.com. We would love to hear from you. We couldn't be happier that this kind of format has been successful, and it's become this kind of simplified show format where we just do questions. We don't do ads. We don't do final notes. It's just It's just Jason and I and you, and I don't know, I don't want to speak for Jason. It's one of my favorite formats. I love answering these questions. Yeah, I do too. You know, 120 questions in, we have yet to get one that's just complete garbage. Like you guys are all on your question game, which I love. It's coming from all over the world, men and women. I'm really, really thrilled by this. I find it genuinely uplifting and some evidence of a pretty solid TGN community out there. All the best from Jason and I, and thank you so much for sending in your questions. If you'd like to hear your question in the next Q&A, we've gotten down to, yeah, we just have a couple that we haven't gotten to, so we need them. Send them in. I can't wait to hear.
Jason Heaton	Yeah, and as always, thanks so much for listening. We'll be back next week with an all-new show. You can follow us on Instagram at Jason Heaton and at J.E. Stacey, and follow the show at The Graynado. And as James mentioned, if you have any questions for us, please write thegraynado at gmail.com. And send us those voice memos. We need them for October's Q&A. Please subscribe and review wherever you find your podcasts. Music throughout is Siesta by Jazzar via the free music archive.
James	And we're going to mix it up this time. It's going to be a lyric and not a quote. If I'm honest, I'm a little bit tired of looking for quotes. So this is going to be a lyric from Fleet Fox's song, Third of May. I am only owed this shape if I make a line to hold, to be held within oneself is death-like. Oh, I know.