The Grey NATO - 124 - August 2020 Q and A
Published on Mon, 14 Sep 2020 13:48:07 -0400
Synopsis
This is a Q&A episode of The Gray Nado podcast where the hosts Jason Heaton and James Stacey answer questions from listeners about various topics related to watches, travel, and adventure. They discuss things like what watches to take while traveling, watchmaker recommendations, vintage watch trends, and thoughts on dress watches among other topics.
Links
Transcript
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| Jason Heaton | Hello and welcome to another episode of The Gray Nado, a Houdinki podcast. It's a loose discussion of travel, diving, driving, gear, and most certainly watches. This is episode 124, and we thank you for listening. Well, James, we're finally getting around to our crop of August Q&A, and we've got a bit of a new format. |
| James Stacey | Yeah, so kind of this is the first time that we're doing the Q&A kind of in this format. It's not going to be like a normal show where we squeeze a Q&A inside of some chitchat at the top and then some final notes at the end. We're getting a lot of these questions. We actually probably have too many to get to despite the change in format. But the the Q&A moving forward will be just an episode for people who are subscribed and kind of dialed into the show. I think that's who calls in and leaves us messages. Uh, so I, I think that's the easiest way to kind of do these. Like we said, we, we wanted to separate this from the bi-weekly ones so that we still did two normal shows and then a kind of bonus Q and a, so that's what you're listening to now. So yeah, we're not going to talk about our Land Rovers and our Jeeps and, and you know, new bags and hats and. stuff like that, unless it comes up in the questions. So for anyone who, for whatever reason, if this is the first episode that you're getting us at, thank you so much for checking it out. We do kind of a different format for most other episodes, but there is a monthly Q&A, which we drop kind of at the start of the following month. So this is the August Q&A and you'll be getting it early September. And otherwise, we do a show every two weeks on Thursday mornings that it will come out. And yeah, check that out for kind of the normal three-part format. But with that in mind, if you're listening to this and it spurs a question in your soul, record it into the voice memo app on your phone and then email that question to thegraynadoatgmail.com. That's how you get on the show. Keep the message under a minute, preferably. And we would love to chat about whatever topics kind of on your mind. With that in mind, how about we start with this first one from Paul? Yeah, good idea. |
| Paul | Let's do it. Hi there, James and Jason. My name is Paul. I'm a new listener from Chicago. My question is about your travel habits with your watches when you're traveling for personal reasons, not for work. Just wondering, do you take your real nice pieces? Are you pretty streamlined? with your watches when you do travel personally. I just want to kind of get a whole playbook of what you guys do and what's been working for you. Obviously, many of us in the watch community are concerned about magnetizing our watches through security, whether we'd become targets to thieves out there, unfortunately. if we bring our most recognizable expensive timepieces out there. Do you guys consider that when you do travel? Thanks. I'm really enjoying your podcast. Thanks again. Bye. |
| Jason Heaton | Well, thanks for that question, Paul. It's one that comes up somewhat often. I'm not sure we've actually talked about it on a Q&A episode, but I know we've talked about traveling with watches and Personally, I've never been particularly concerned about traveling with nicer watches. I don't know if it's overconfidence or just the places I'm going. I seldom think about magnetism or damage since most of the watches I have are pretty burly, rugged pieces and can stand up to some abuse. And I think most of them are anti-magnetic enough to survive a trip through the x-ray machine. I think the bigger concern, obviously, is depending on what you're wearing, it can be a recognizable symbol of wealth and that's not always appropriate everywhere. Um, and so, you know, I do take that into consideration and I almost always take a backup watch in the form of like a courts, uh, you know, now the safari will be a good, good backup piece or one of my CWC courts divers just kind of keep that in my dop kit or my backpack and, you know, pull that out if, if circumstances merit. or if anything happens to the primary watch I'm wearing, or if I just don't want to wear it to a certain place during a trip. It seems a little odd to actually be talking about traveling with watches during a time when very few of us are traveling, but I think it's a good question, and I would just say the rule of thumb is to just kind of be aware of your surroundings and kind of be sensitive to, I don't want to say audience, but the people you'll run into and what that watch that you're wearing projects about you, and how secure you feel. James, how do you feel about this? |
| James Stacey | Yeah, I would agree. You know, when I travel, I definitely don't like taking more than two watches, especially if that means I have to leave anything in the hotel room. Yeah. Because I think that's a bigger issue for me than the possibility of street crime. You know, it's just having them somewhere in your room or even just not having it on your wrist. So when I used to do a lot of traveling and Paul, I know that you had said, you know, travel for personal travel, but I didn't do a lot of personal travel for years because I traveled a lot for work and a lot of it was pretty luxurious. So there's a middle ground there at least. And I think when I would land in cities, cities I hadn't been to or places I hadn't been to, I found a lot of comfort in just having one watch. Typically that would be my Rolex. And I think that's fine for the areas of where I was traveling. The other thing is you can always kind of I would say consider the cities, if you're going to cities, if you're traveling for tourism reason to cities at some point in the future, just try and maybe do a couple of quick Google searches and make sure that there's not like a rash of crime surrounding watches or something like that. Pre-COVID, last fall, there was some stuff like that going on in Paris, which would definitely make me think about just bringing my Garmin or a watch that wasn't a Rolex, basically. But I don't have a really flashy collection where you have to worry about that. And typically when I travel for myself, I'm going somewhere where I'm either going to be diving or hiking or climbing or that sort of thing. And so I'd want to watch that kind of aligns with those scenarios. But the way that I that I travel or did travel kind of at a personal level was more isolated than it was to large, you know, populous areas. I think, you know, you did a lot. I did a lot of work travel to cities. and major hubs throughout the world. And I never gave it a lot of thought, especially when it comes to things like magnetizing the watch. I don't take the watch off when I go through security. I think maybe in the last hundred flights, not counting COVID, the last year and a bit, maybe in 14 months of travel, I got asked once to take the watch off my wrist. They just typically don't ask. They can see that it's a watch. So that hasn't been my issue. I haven't had anything be magnetized in a really long time. Certainly, I don't believe from travel. And then as far as security, I would say that it's a two-part thing. Don't bring watches to places where if you feel it's uncomfortable, that it would be conspicuous to have it on your wrist. And the other thing is don't bring so many watches on what's going to be your personal vacation that you spend time being anxious about your watches. |
| Unknown | Yeah. |
| James Stacey | bring a great watch like a Sepharni and treat it like a great vacation watch and then your other watches will be there when you get home. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. And one thing I would add too is, um, you know, certain watches draw attention to themselves more than others. And that can come down to something like the strap, you know, a Rolex on a bracelet is a very iconic look. A lot of people know that. I've also, uh, you know, heard it said that, you know, from a distance that date magnifier Cyclops on a Rolex is easily recognizable and something as simple as, putting, if you're going to wear something like a Rolex or an Omega or something a little flashier on a bracelet, maybe it's time to switch it out to a NATO strap and worst case, flip it around so it's on the inside of your wrist. So all that shows is the band. It's these small things, you know, that, that can make a difference. |
| James Stacey | Yeah. And situational awareness as always with, with whatever you have on you, that could be a value, whether that's, uh, if you're in a, especially in cities with, um, pick where pickpocketing is, is an issue. You know, make sure that you're not only worried about your watch as they make off with your wallet and your passport and your camera or whatever else. Just, you know, try and keep things in closed pockets, you know, keep things under sleeves, keep cameras under jackets. That's, you know, all kind of simple things that have worked for me for a long time. Thanks very much for that question, Paul. And when traveling resumes, I hope that you're able to go some places and enjoy some vacations with some of your watches. Next up, we have a question about, basically about lugs from a fellow named Neil. So let's get to it. |
| Neil | Hi, James and Jason. This is Neil from Champaign, Illinois. Two questions about lugs. When people give a measurement of lug to lug, do they normally measure to the end of each lug or do they measure from spring bar hole to spring bar hole? And second question, if you have a case, whether it's stainless steel or titanium, and it does not have drilled lugs, is there any downside to having your jeweler drill those holes all the way through? Thanks a lot. Keep up the good work. |
| Jason Heaton | Well, interesting question, Neil. James, you want to jump in on this? |
| James Stacey | Yeah, for sure. I can keep it pretty simple. So when I measure lug to lug, it's the absolute maximum length of the lug, not where the lug holes are. The idea is to try and get an idea for the maximum physical dimensions of the watch. So it's not from where the spring bar hole is, but where the lug actually ends in terms of the total length of the watch in that dimension. And then as far as getting the lugs drilled on your watch, I would say that comes down to two factors. One, How well do you trust your watchmaker? If they're capable of doing this and this is something they're comfortable doing, super. And two, are you worried about possibly damaging the resale of said watch by modifying it? If you trust your watchmaker and this isn't the kind of watch that you're planning to sell at some point, or maybe it's a watch that doesn't have a huge value to begin with and you're not that worried about it, I say go for it. You're not going to hurt it. You might have trouble finding someone who can do the titanium. can be difficult to tool for titanium. Not always, you know, the person could be more than capable. But I've known a lot of guys that bought, you know, SKX007s and had them drilled because, you know, that's a $200 watch. It's not the kind of thing where you have to really preserve your, you know, it's, you know, a thing that has to always have boxes, papers, and 100% original parts and everything. But if you're modifying the watch, it's like modifying a car. Typically, you're not doing something as a plus to its value. It would be for a personal decision. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah, I don't have anything to add to that, although I would be curious to see how somebody actually drills lugs. I've always been curious how you get a tool between the lugs and then drill out, because presumably you're not drilling from the outside in, which in my mind would be easier to do, but I'd be curious. |
| James Stacey | Yeah, there might be a tool to go outside in that locates the bit. Yeah. I'm not sure. Yeah. I mean, obviously, if you have a watch with a flat-sided It's a lot easier, but if you think about the curvature of, for my example, an SKX007, it's not like there's a natural point where that bit will fall. It's on a curve to get that done. So yeah, maybe it's done from the inside. I'm sure somebody in the audience knows, or maybe there's a YouTube video like there is for everything else in the world. Neil, good question. Good luck with your drilled lugs. If it happens, let us know and what sort of a task it was. Next up, we've got one from Mark, who has a question about watches given as corporate gifts. |
| Mark | Hi, Jason and James. Long-time listener here, first-time caller. Hey, I have a quick two-part question for you guys on the topic of corporate watch giving. My company's generous enough in that they give you a watch following your 10-year tenure with the company, of which mine is coming up this year. Typically, the watch is a Rolex Oyster Perpetual range and is handed out in a ceremony at the end of the year holiday party. And usually the recipient has no say in the type of watch. However, I might have pulled to shape parts of this policy and a bit and requested different watches. I already have a Rolex. So my question on this topic is for the policy from my company and really all companies as I'm sure your listeners have the same thing. Do you think the person should have the option in the brand or type of watch? And two, do you think that the case back should be engraved with the company logo or anything like that? Also, any suggestions of the watch that I could get would be appreciated. I like divers. I've been thinking everything in the range from like a Tudor Black Bay Bronze to a Breitling Superocean Heritage and really anything in between. Thanks and enjoy the show. |
| Jason Heaton | Wow, Mark, this is really cool. I'm really happy to hear that companies are still doing this sort of thing. Yeah. I think we should do a TGN corporate watch for all the employees. |
| James Stacey | I think, yeah, for like episode 123 for sure. Oh, definitely. |
| Jason Heaton | Definitely. Yeah. I mean, you know, I like, like I said, I love that your company does this. You didn't mention anything about budget. A Rolex Oyster Perpetual. I'm not sure what they're going for these days. |
| James Stacey | Between five and six. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah, so between $5,000 and $6,000, there's a lot of other good choice in that area. I do think that if it's a gift from a company, they could offer maybe three choices in the same price range rather than have employees kind of go willy-nilly requesting oddball choices. It might be easier to narrow it down to readily available watches. And if there's a plan to engrave the case back, which I think it's only fair if you're getting it from a company as a gift that they should be able to brand it a little bit in an inconspicuous way. That might be a consideration when choosing the watch, whether it is suitable for engraving. Some watches have so much writing or have a clear case back and not much room to engrave that something like a Tudor or a Rolex or something with some space is actually a good idea. And I think Tudor's a really nice option. They have a lot of affordable watches in different kind of looks. And, you know, it's a very classic brand. But, you know, certainly an Oyster Perpetual, a Tudor Black Bay and say, I don't know, something a little dressier. I'm not sure like even something like a Beaumont Mercier or, you know, Raymond Weil or something along those lines for people that want something a little more classic and dressy looking might be, you know, three good choices and you just offer those to to the employees, but, uh, um, I think, like I said, I think it's really cool, uh, that, that they're doing this and that you have some say in the matter. So, uh, we'd love to hear what you end up with. James, what do you think about this? |
| James Stacey | Yeah, I think, um, I think it's interesting, you know, I think that because most, um, employees aren't going to be quote unquote watch nerds just by simple demographics. I think it makes sense if they don't offer much in the way of choice. I think it's fun that they might offer you that. Maybe they know that you're very much into watches and they're comfortable with that. And that's another mark of a great company, not only making sure that you feel happy and appreciated on such a great mark as 10 years. That's fantastic. But also that maybe they know you and they're willing to bend a rule for you. I think on whole, if I was leading a company, I'd kind of like the idea that You know, maybe there's, you know, that night, that Christmas party, you get your OP, there's, you know, 20 or 30 or 40, I don't know how big your company is, but several other people who will come up to you and show you theirs. And the fact that they're all kind of the same is kind of like a badge of honor of, you know, similar nature with your co-workers, your other, you know, 10-year co-workers. But yeah, I could kind of go either way on it. I definitely think it should have the company's logo on the back. That's special. This is a nice thing that I think a lot of companies don't do anymore, and they should absolutely be proud of it, and that includes engraving the case back. And as far as suggestions, I'd be with Jason. If they offer something like the OP, a Tudor, and maybe for someone going a little bit dressier, a Grand Seiko would be in the same price point, and they make some really beautiful dress watches that kind of run in the same aesthetic flexibility as an OP. And when we say OP, we're saying Oyster Perpetual for people who are tired of us saying that the short form, a watch that they've just actually relaunched. So theoretically, you could get the new 36 millimeter, which comes in a couple of really amazing colors. You know, just just the day before we recorded this, they launched, I think, five or six new colors into the 36 size. Yeah, for sure. I think it's cool if they'll give you a choice and if you're more comfortable with that than going with an OP. But I think it's also one of those things where you're basically immediately getting a watch that you're not going to sell. So it might be more kind of in line with the overall experience to go with what they've given others in the past. I'm not sure. I think kind of with that, I'd say follow your heart, but definitely get the logo and some sort of engraving on the back, whatever they normally do. Um, and then, yeah, as far as suggestions, I don't think you go wrong. I would probably at that price point lean towards either the O. P. And pick a dial that that kind of was in line with my liking or something like a black bay 58. If you could find one. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. Great question. Yeah. Super fun. Yeah. Felt very old fashioned. |
| James Stacey | Yeah. Yeah. I didn't, I didn't realize companies are still doing that. I think that's great. Uh, and especially, you know, it's not like it's, uh, uh, not that I would, I, you know, throw shade at a company for going with a less expensive watch, but that kind of like classic Rolex, right? Like that's, that's, that's still a thing that's going to be special to a lot of people. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. All right. Next up, we have a question from Travis who wants to know a little bit about how to vet a watchmaker. |
| Travis | Hey James and Jason, this is Travis calling from Northern Indiana. I love the podcast and your work, and I appreciate the time for my question. So I've found there's no better cure for an expanding watch collection than paying brand factory service costs, but I'm willing to do it for the core expensive watches in my collection. I do have a few more affordable ones that have me scratching my head a little though. Do you have any tips for sourcing a local watchmaker? What questions should be asked, say certifications, parts, access, et cetera? Or is it better to ship and use a multi-brand service center? Thanks. |
| James Stacey | All right, Travis, thanks very much for that question. I can hop in with a few thoughts. If it's local, you need to start with what's around, right? Maybe do a little survey, stop by a few of the shops or make some phone calls. I would be less concerned with training or certifications or something like that than how long they've been around. If they're brand new, ask for some concept of where they were trained and how they got to where they are. And then introduce the watch in question to them and see how they feel about actually working on it. This is the same way where if you move to another city or want to switch garages for your car, you kind of start with the spots that are relatively comfortable with your brand. and move from there. And then the other side of it is, of course, there's Google Reviews, there's Better Business Bureau. And so when you kind of narrow down your options for where you might want to take it, ask your questions. Are you comfortable servicing this watch? If it needs parts, is that something that you're going to be able to get for me? That also depends a lot on the watch, not just the watchmaker in question. But yeah, look for a longstanding business, the type of spot that seems to be successful in doing this for multiple generations, which is not uncommon with jewelry stores. And then just make sure that your expectations align so you're both on kind of the same page with what needs to be done to the watch, if it's mechanical service only or something more aesthetic. Especially when you're starting that relationship, they may not understand to what level your enthusiasm is. Even with places like Roald Dorf where they could service nearly anything, within reason, a lot of what they do is like changing batteries. So there's some qualifying that both of you have to do, and you qualifying yourself to the watchmaker and the watchmaker qualifying his or herself to you. But I think that's where I would get started. And otherwise, think of it like picking a spot, a garage for your car, look up some reviews if you can, ask a lot of questions, try and get a feel for how busy they are. Busy is always a good sign, right? I would kind of go that route. And then if there isn't a good option locally, then absolutely send it to one of the bigger places or go on Watchuseek and see what people are recommending for that brand of watch. It's not that difficult, you know, to box a watch up and ship it to someone for service. Maybe even easier than going to the store these days. Who knows? |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah, I would just add two things and one is You know, I get a pretty steady stream of direct messages on Instagram from people just asking for recommendations in the Twin Cities here. And forums are also a good place to ask. All I have to do is throw out a question and say, hey, anybody based in Cincinnati or Chicago or wherever, can you recommend a good watchmaker? And you'll probably get a fair number of responses from locals. The other thing I would add is that you know, I don't think there's really a watchmaker that wants to get in over his or her head with an unfamiliar watch or brand. And I think watchmakers are usually pretty honest. They're not going to say, yeah, I can service that, you know, split seconds paddock chronograph. Uh, you know, that would be really disastrous for, for them, for you and for the watch. And so I think usually watchmakers are pretty honest about what they're willing to take on. And chances are that watchmaker can recommend somebody as well if, if they're not comfortable doing it. So, uh, good question. For sure. Next up is Matt who has a question about tolerating imperfections. |
| Matt | Hey Jason and James. My name is Matt from Texas. I am a day one listener and truly appreciate what you guys do with this podcast. It is very much one of the best parts of my week. My question is regarding watch imperfections. How do you guys treat say a dive watch with a misaligned bezel or spotting some dust on your dial? Things like that. As someone who struggles with diagnosed OCD, I often find that I will fixate on these kinds of imperfections and it very often takes all the fun out of this hobby I enjoy so much. Do you find that there are acceptable imperfections? Maybe things that don't necessarily affect the function of the watch? Curious of your individual takes, especially considering that a lot of watch buying currently is done online and watches are often purchased sight unseen and you may not know what you get until you actually receive it. Thanks for your time, and I really look forward to your future work and appreciate everything you do again. Thanks. |
| Jason Heaton | Thanks for that one, Matt. James, I think you and I are going to come down slightly differently on this one. I'm just guessing, but where do you go with this one? |
| James Stacey | Yeah, I mean, it depends on what it is. With something like a bezel, I'm not that concerned about it. It depends, I guess, on the extent to which it's not aligned. You know, the normal misalignment of a Seiko SKX has never bothered me. I know it's something that people It definitely bothers a lot of people. It doesn't at all for me. And then even though the bezel on my SPV is off by a small, a small, a tiny fraction of, of, uh, you know, maybe a quarter of a click. Um, it, it just doesn't bother me that much. Uh, that said, if it, if there's dust on the dial, that would bother me endlessly. Um, I would, I would, I would want someone to, uh, to get, get that off the dial certainly. Uh, so it would depend on in this case, uh, what, so I don't see them I could see the bezel as something like an imperfection or a quality control thing that would require some sort of actual modification to fix, but something like getting dust off the dial is something that a competent watchmaker can do for you. That's not something you have to live with. And certainly, if I bought a new watch from a retailer and it had dust on the dial, that would be something I would sort out with that retailer. That would bother me a lot, certainly. Yeah. |
| Jason Heaton | What do you think? Yeah, I think I'm actually surprised that you tend to be a little more persnickety about things like audio quality and photo editing and things. So I thought you were gonna come down a little more on the perfectionist side of this one, but I think we're pretty close. I think I could also live with something like a slightly misaligned bezel or even You know, sometimes you'll, you'll notice that loom isn't perfectly or evenly applied on, on all the markers in the hands. I can live with that sort of thing. I think of a chronograph didn't zero out when you reset it or, uh, I've had a situation where, you know, timekeeping was just way out of whack, you know, right out of the box. I'll contact customer service and send it back. But, uh, um, I'm, I'm willing to tolerate, um, some, some smaller things, but you know, Look, at the price that watches are going for these days, if you get something and you're not completely happy with it, by all means, I say, you know, get in touch. And the mark of a good watch brand or retailer is how they treat you after you buy the product. And I think most brands are pretty good about it. So I would encourage you to get in touch if it's something that kind of tweaks you a little bit. |
| James Stacey | So good question, Matt, and good luck with whatever imperfections you're currently trying to, trying to deal with along the road there. Next up, we have a question from Evan about case materials. |
| Evan | Jason, James, this is Evan. You're terrific one on Instagram. Let's talk about new case materials. I've owned or borrowed watches made of ceramic, carbon and advanced polymer. They each have their own benefits and deficits. And I'd like to get your take on these materials. Their durability, longevity, and whether you think some of these things are just passing fads. Thanks, my dudes. |
| James Stacey | All right, Evan. Thanks very much for that question. For anyone listening, uh, Evan is a fantastic Instagram follow, uh, killer watch photographer, great taste, uh, in sports watches. Certainly that's what, that's what you're going to see a lot of, but he, I've, I've followed Evan for quite some time and, uh, it's a, it's a treat to have him call in with a question. Uh, Jason, any specific thoughts on any of those materials? Have you owned any watches of ceramic, carbon or polymer build? |
| Jason Heaton | I haven't owned them. My limited experience comes from reviewing specifically a couple of AP divers, the Royal Oak Offshore divers in both the ceramic and the carbon, which isn't definitely a long-term test, but I was impressed by the feel of them and the weight on the wrist and the finishing. They're obviously very scratch-resistant and light. I mean, advances in case materials is something that goes hand-in-hand with the development of watchmaking just as materials get used in automobile design and things like this. I think the concerns about durability or shattering that you often hear when it comes to, say, a carbon or ceramic watch, I feel like those are largely unfounded. You know, you might see a random photo of somebody, Oh, I dropped my IWC and it shattered. Well, um, you know, the way most people wear their luxury watches, they're probably not dropping them a lot. They're probably careful with them anyway. If you're, if you're going into situations where you're banging your watch around a lot, maybe not a good option to go with one of these, uh, more shattering, uh, materials. But I think, you know, luxury watches by their nature tend to be, Fairly fragile and also and for that reason people treat them pretty well, so unless you're really really hard on your watch I think they'll last as long as a good steel or titanium watch but In terms of my personal preference. I'm a metal guy. I like steel. I like titanium I could go for a bronze watch or someday maybe a gold watch But you know I think it's cool to see these new materials, and and I don't really have any particular qualms about them |
| James Stacey | Yeah. In my scenario, I've reviewed watches in all three. I've not owned any of them long enough to put them through any real abuse, right? These are loners. But when it comes to ceramic, it's not a material that speaks really well to me. I find it typically quite shiny, kind of glassy, which I understand is the effect that they're going for. But I definitely don't think, especially when it comes to ceramic, that we're seeing a trend. I think that ceramic is relatively here to stay. You know, it's a material, the watch industry likes the idea that they're selling you something that won't age. And I think your only real risk, like Jason highlighted, is that if you were to hit ceramic hard enough, it will break in a way that like a metal, like steel won't. You know, I think a lot of us have probably seen, and this is maybe what Jason was referring to, the guy that dropped his dark side of the moon and just kind of broke a lug off the side of it. That's obviously going to be a real bad day for anyone that that happens to. But if you drop a steel watch, you may not break a lug off, but other things can break, certainly. The case will probably be okay. And then as far as my experience with carbon and then polymer, which of course is, you know, typically as some sort of advanced plastic. The only thing that I've ever seen brought up and it's anecdotal is, you know, essentially the edge retention, the retention of kind of milled edges in both materials. A carbon fiber watch or a carbon composite watch is going to have a lot of plastic in it. That's going to be the resin or the kind of more at one point liquidy element that kind of holds everything together. Obviously, there's exceptions to that. There's watches that have used layup carbon fiber, so it's more of a closer to what's used in a vehicle. But I think those materials have proven to be fairly hard-wearing and lightweight and strong. As far as how they deal with years of UV, I'm not sure. And how they would deal with years of a sleeve rubbing against some of the harder edges, you can actually find watches where... Jason, what's the Omega Speedmaster, the Mark II? Oh, yeah, the old mark twos, you can actually tell which wrist the person wore it on because you can see that half of the watch will have that radial brushed finish will be gone from the sleeve. So that's that's how little like you don't think a sleeve is hurting your watch at all, but give it a decade or give it 15 years on your wrist. And Evan, your question's a good one, but it's one that I don't really have an answer to at a 15 year scale. It seems like ceramics here to stay. It's super tough. Obviously, it's mega scratch resistant. And my guess is we'll see brands deliver on that at higher and lower levels of success. If you imagine the difference between PVD from a very cheap watch, it could flake off with your fingernail. And then there's PVD that is absolutely harder wearing and better in finish than DLC. It's much more expensive to iterate at that level. And I think we'll see the same thing with everything from the very nebulous term of like a polymer or some sort of a plastic watch, uh, you know, Breitling does a great job with their bright light, but we've also seen, uh, nylon watches and, and polymer watches from entry-level Victorinox and, uh, and Marathon and things like that. So I think all of this comes in at different, different wavelengths. And I think we won't be able to say like all ceramic is great, or all carbon is great, or all polymer is great. I think there'll be varying degrees of success, uh, based on, on kind of how much care is given into the material. And, uh, While I don't think any of it's necessarily a trend, I think there's always kind of been a push to try other case materials, aluminum to titanium to whatever. I do think that it's always going to be hard to beat steel, especially for a sport watch. So I think that's probably where I land on it. If I get a chance to ever own something like that, you know, especially like I would have loved to have owned that carbon Doxa. It is interesting to think, you know, to try and predict how that material will wear over a 10 or 15 or 20 year span compared to steel. Yeah. |
| Jason Heaton | Well, thanks, Evan, for that. Let's move on to Tom, who has a question about taking a knife backpacking. |
| Tom | G'day, man. Tom from Melbourne, Australia. Love the show. Getting my backpack ready for hiking season. Got everything ready to go, but I do need a folding knife slash camping knife. I know Stacey's got a few ideas up his sleeve probably. What's good, what a nice blade, something durable, something that's going to last. Got about 100 US or 150 AUD to spend. Keep up the good work. Love the Q&As too. |
| Jason Heaton | Thanks for that Tom. James, this is your area for sure, but I'm just going to throw in my vote for one of the simpler multi-tool style Swiss Army knives just for the additional tools that you get with it. But James, why don't you take it on from here. |
| James Stacey | Yeah, actually, it's funny. It's funny. I was gonna say the same thing. The starting point for a camping knife should always be a multi-tool. I actually think you kinda need both in many cases. I think a Swiss Army knife is a great option. You're not gonna find that blade, the actual cutting blade, to be tough enough to, say, tap into a big piece of wood with a hammer or the back of a hatchet or something like that, but they do make a beautiful knife and they're easily found. you know, any mall will have someplace that sells Swiss Army knives. And you don't need all the tools, but it's awfully handy to have a few of them in those scenarios. The other thing that I think is great, and we don't talk about a lot, is like Leatherman. Yeah. Like a proper, sturdy, you know, one of the Wave series are great. They make so many, you kind of have to go on and use the filter on their website to understand what differentiates one from the other. The Wingman is the one that I always see recommended. But even then, I think there's a few versions of it. I think if you're unless you're a knife guy specifically, that might be the way to go. And if you're saying, oh, but I have a little toolkit that I carry with me when I'm doing these things and I really just want a proper pocket knife, then I would say don't don't don't sweat the details. Get yourself either a Benchmade 556. So that's the mini Griptilian. That's under one hundred dollars. Or look for a comparable model from Spyderco. Two fantastic brands. Neither one will ever let you down. Both of them use great steels. I'm a Benchmade guy, especially I really like the Axis Lock, but that's not to hold anything back from a Spyderco Alcyon. These things are about 100 bucks or I mean, you can get Benchmades for less than that. The 556, I think I paid maybe 80 bucks Canadian. So that's in the range more like $60 US. and was a great knife until I lost it to TSA, and if I hadn't, I would still be using it. Two of my brothers carry the same 556 model. You can get it in a half serrated blade. I think that's the 556S, which is what I had. It comes in different colors. You can customize it on their website, the rest of that. I'm a huge Benchmade fan. I've had Spydercos in the past, and they're awesome as well. There's just something about the... I like a thumb stud versus the kind of hole, which is kind of characterized by Spyderco, and I really like their axis lock. which makes it super handy to use with one hand as a tool knife. So that's what I would suggest. And Tom, thanks very much for the question and happy camping for sure. |
| Jason Heaton | Next up is Sean who has a question about double-wristing watches. |
| Sean | Hi James, Jason. It's Sean from the UK. I have a quick question about double-wristing. Obviously Jack does it from Hidinki, but I rarely see anyone else do it Despite trying many times, I haven't been able to get up the nerve to do it at all. And recently, I found the Apple Watch almost indispensable for losing my lockdown weight and getting fitter. What would you suggest is the solution for wearing a mechanical watch you really love and also an Apple Watch? And I'll be honest, I'm not really expecting an answer because I'm not actually sure that there is one. Anyway, thanks for the podcast. Keep up the good work. |
| James Stacey | All right, Sean, thanks very much for that question. And as far as double wristing, you know, I've done it where I had maybe two watches that I had to shoot while going somewhere. So I had one on each wrist instead of having them in a case or something. But in an actual like casual wearing scenario, it's not something that I'm really going to be able to pull off two watches at once. I do. I do think and I did this for a while as you can. Obviously, you may be tied specifically to some of the metrics from the Apple Watch. But there are other fitness trackers which you could wear on the same wrist as your watch or on the other wrist that aren't watches. You know, things from Fitbit, things from Samsung makes these get the Galaxy Gear Fit, I think, or the these smaller sort of band style ones. Xiaomi makes, I think they're up to the Mi Band 5. I had a Mi Band 3 back in the day, which is a great way to, you know, track your steps and get some notifications from your phone, that kind of thing. So I think it comes down to do you specifically need the functionality in the Apple Watch, in which case I'm not really sure what to tell you. If you're not really happy with it on one wrist, I've seen straps that put both of them on the same strap. So you'd have the Apple Watch on the underside of your wrist and your mechanical watch on the top. That seems like a gimmick to me. But far be it from me to be any sort of arbiter to what people should or shouldn't be wearing and whatever makes you happy, really. That's the point of these things. And certainly if you're finding especially health value from your Apple Watch. I would hate to say anything that would cause you to not put it on if it was keeping you healthy during a time when health has become pretty paramount in people's lives, both mental and physical. Jason, what do you think for this? Have you seen any options or how you feel about double-wristing? |
| Jason Heaton | A couple of things come to mind. First of all, it feels extremely awkward when I've done it in the past. Like you, when I've gone on you know, to, to shoot a watch or I'm traveling or, or headed somewhere and I have to have two watches, I'll, I'll do it for convenience. And it, it feels so wrong. And then also like going diving, I always wear like a, in these days, a dive computer, my Garmin dive computer on my right wrist and the mechanical dive watch on my left wrist. And in that case, it feels okay. The, the dive computer is kind of big and plasticky and light and has a super long strap on it. So it doesn't feel like I'm wearing two watches, but in everyday wear, I think I definitely could not, pull that off. The two suggestions I have are take a look at, I'm not sure what your favorite mechanical watch is and whether you wear it on a bracelet or not, but there are a few gadgets that I think attach to the underside of the strap. James, you briefly touched on it, but I know Montblanc had something that you could fit onto a strap and I think Sin came up with something that you could wear on the underside of your wrist to kind of counterbalance the mechanical watch on the other side. And then there was a brand, and I can't remember the name, but we'll put it in the show notes so I can never find it. It was a little disc that would sandwich or adhere. Oh yeah, what was that called? It would adhere to the case back of your watch and it would ride against your wrist under your mechanical watch and it could give you notifications and tie to your phone. And I'm not sure if it had heart rate sensing, but it definitely tracked your activities. Um, I want to say it was called something like the Kronos. Yeah, the Kronos wearable. Yeah, the Kronos wearable. I'm not sure if they're still making that. |
| James Stacey | It says limited quantities available. But yeah, it's kind of a disc that clicks onto your case back and says fitness tracking, music control, notification alerts, and tap to find your iPhone. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah, there we go. So if that's something that appeals, if you're not tied to your Apple Watch, like James said, You know, maybe one of these add on options is a another option or another idea for you. |
| James Stacey | But the other thing is, you know, during this time when we're when we're home, I found it kind of interesting to find ways to segregate your day, kind of break your day up into what feels like a work day and then not. And maybe pick one watch for one phase and the Apple Watch for the other. So if you like the Apple Watch for your letting you know when you're supposed to be on your next meeting or you're maybe going on a walk over lunch and getting your steps in, and you know, completing the circles and all that kind of thing. And then maybe wear that. And then when dinnertime comes along and you're done the watch, the workday, throw on something, you know, a nice watch and kind of enjoy your evening in sort of a different methodology. Yeah. Which might, might work in that way. You'd get both in without having to do both on the same, uh, two wrists. |
| Unknown | Yeah. |
| Jason Heaton | Okay. Good luck with that, Sean. Um, it's a tough one. Next up is Stefan who has a question about wearing kind of themed watches. |
| Stefan | Hi James and Jason. This is Stefan from Chicago. I'm a huge fan of the work you both do and a long time TGM listener. What are your thoughts on the myriad of themed watch releases we see each year? Some commemorate sports events, some focus on movies, some are in support of very good causes, while others are military themed tributes to name a few. Do you think you need to have a close association with one of these events, causes or units to justify such a purchase? Thanks so much for all you guys do, and I look forward to your thoughts. Cheers. |
| Jason Heaton | So, Stefan, I'll jump in first here. You know, I'm kind of split on this one. I'm not a huge fan of watches that are tied specifically to a movie, you know, the James Bond tie-in stuff or a sports team. I know Tissot was doing a range of NBA watches. But I have also owned watches that are kind of co-branded or tie in with a specific event or project. I can think specifically about my old Mission 31 Doxa that recently was raffled off for something like $7,000 to raise money for Big Brothers Big Sisters through Analog Shift, which is really cool. And I also owned the Breitling Emergency Orbiter Special Edition. And I've got a Poseidon Doxa as well. So of those, I think the one that didn't stick, specifically was the Breitling orbiter. While I love the old Breitling emergencies, I had no connection at all with the the orbiter mission that Bertrand Piccard, and I can't think of the other guy's name, but they took a balloon around the world, and it was this momentous adventure that they completed. But I really just wanted the watch. I didn't need the logo on the dial, and it just didn't stick. Mission 31, I was able to dive to the Aquarius habitat. I had met Fabian Cousteau. I had some real connection there. I have some Poseidon dive gear, so a co-branded Poseidon Doxa kind of made sense to me. But in general, if there's sort of a more tenuous tie-in that I don't have a personal connection with, I'm just not that interested and it doesn't stick with me. |
| James Stacey | How about you, James? Uh, yeah, I mean, for me, when it comes to certainly something like movies, it's a hard no, uh, that I've never, I've never seen that as a value add for me, uh, sports teams the same way. Even if you were, even if I like, um, if you think of like, if you made a version of a watch, an existing watch for someone, I really loved, uh, an athlete or anyone, you know, like let's say, uh, Ed Visters did an Ed Visters edition Rolex. That would be cheesy to me. because Ed Viser is there because he was wearing a Rolex when he did his things. He wasn't wearing one with his name on it. Yeah. You know what I mean? A lot of it is so kind of cat eating or a snake eating its own tail in many ways. I would say that it bothers me less when it's it's in addition to a watch that's maybe already great versus what's attempting to make the watch great. So if it's a watch that Star Wars themed and that's kind of the way you would explain, you'd be like, oh, well, this watch is It has a design that's based on Star Wars, or they made 50 of them for this or that. I've already stopped listening. But if it's like an add-on where, oh, you've got this great watch that also supports this movement, it could be that Blancpain, Bathyscaphe, Macaran that we spoke about on a previous episode, or really, no Brandeis is better than Oris. They take an already great watch, They change the color to make it special, they make it a limited edition and they put it on the case back. And I think as something that you might get to say in the third or the fourth sentence of talking about this watch with a friend versus the thing that's the fourth word of the first sentence makes a lot of sense. So I really like the ones that are kind of a collaboration with a project or even could be a cross collaboration with another brand. Those are fun, like dual sign dials can be really fun. But ones that are meant to connect to something that's not watch, that's not really watch, even watch adjacent, I don't get it all. I don't understand where it's another car brand and I adore cars, but like a Panerai, you know, a Panerai Ferrari model or the Girard-Perregaux Ferrari models. I look at those and I go like, oh, that's cool that they made it, but honestly, it's cooler if it doesn't say Ferrari on the dial. Yeah. So it has to add in some way to the watch and typically as soon as you start changing the dial and like look at it, imagine I'm that when you get into, you know, oh, the seven marker on this one is double 07, because it's a James Bond thing, I start to go like, couldn't I just buy a normal Omega, like what Bond would wear? Right. You know, Bond wouldn't wear the Bond one. They just wouldn't. Yeah. And I don't think that anyone outside of a factory driver for Acid Martin wears a watch that has Acid Martin on the dial. You know what I mean? So it's just kind of, yeah, I don't know. It's like I I like it when it's the way that like Horace approaches them. I think that's like genuine and interesting and it spreads what the watch world can be about into other spaces versus just kind of putting a movie on a dial or a comic book character or something doesn't really speak to me. Even Snoopy, which I understand the background of some of that stuff. I look at those and I go like, yeah, but the one without Snoopy is cooler. Yeah. |
| Jason Heaton | Good topic. I like that. |
| James Stacey | Yeah, that's that's how I see it. And I know that I'm sure that there's people in the audience that are going to be, you know, in complete disagreement. But Stefan, I appreciate the question. And and that's yeah, that's where I land on it. I like it in some scenarios, but for the most part, I seldom see how it adds to the general appeal of an already good watch. So next up, we have a question from Victoria, who's asking basically for some watch suggestions of a quote unquote men's watch that will work on her wrist. |
| Victoria | Hey, James and Jason, I'm Victoria from Washington, D.C. I love your show. Thank you for having me. I prefer the size and design of men's watches to women's, and I currently sort of borrow my husband's Zodiac Super Seawolf GMT Eli Hodinke. It has a blue and sea green bezel, which makes it somewhat cute, but my question is, what is a men's watch that is feminine enough for a woman? I usually wear his watches on a NATO strap, but I would prefer one where I can be comfortable wearing the bracelet. I'm in the market for something with a light color dial, automatic, roughly 38 to 42 millimeters. Do you have any recommendations? Thank you again so much. |
| Jason Heaton | Well, thanks for that, Victoria. Funny, you know, this question comes up. My wife is kind of in a similar boat. She always liked dive watches, and this was several years ago. She was looking at my old Planet Ocean and kind of lusting after it, but it was the 45 millimeter version, and she was just frustrated that there weren't any similarly styled watches for women that she could wear. And then along came the 37.5 millimeter Planet Ocean Chronograph. This was, gosh, 2009 or so. on a bracelet and she's worn it ever since and just loves that watch. And I think over the past few years we've seen more less of the kind of the shrink it and pink it kind of mentality of making women's watches with you know certain colors or diamonds and kind of making more unisex watches and I think you know Breitling's done a good job of that with like their Navitimer which I think is a really neat watch. They make a blue dial version and some others as well that aren't the chronograph, but they're actually the Navitimer, just time only with the, uh, slide rule, which is one you could look at. Um, the Doxa sub 300 C Rambler. So with a silver dial, or I guess now they've got, you know, several dial colors. We discussed it, uh, last week in the episode. Um, those watches wear surprisingly well on smaller wrists. My wife wears my sub 300 quite a bit and it looks just fine on her. And despite it's, uh, I think on paper, they say it's like 44 millimeters across, but it's, it's very much like a round or almost square shape that, that fits a wide variety of wrists. Um, I think, you know, the range you suggested 38 to 42 is quite a big range and there are a lot of watches in this area. I think what threw me was your request for a lighter colored dial, which narrows the field a little bit more. Um, you know, there, I was looking up the Rado Captain Cook and they make a, They still make the 37mm size and they have an all silver version which is kind of intriguing and actually comes on a bracelet if you want. We discussed the Rolex Oyster Perpetual of course. They've just introduced the 41mm version. There's also the 36mm version. If you want something more on the affordable side and depending on how you feel about the seagull movements, Laurier, one of the brands that we like here on TGN makes the Gemini which is a really neat kind of retro, two-register, panda-style chronograph with a 12-hour bezel that I believe is about 37 or 38 millimeters. And then Omega still makes a 37-millimeter Planet Ocean in a variety of colors and configurations that you could take a look at there, too. So I would say spoiled for choice. And if you expand even beyond light-colored dials, there's a lot more out there. James, any ideas spring to mind? |
| James Stacey | Yeah, for sure. I think diver 65 comes in tons of different colors, including a silver dial from a couple of years back. So that's always an option. And one that we always throw out there. Great value. I agree with, um, the sub 300, uh, you know, there are, there are various versions of the, uh, Tudor black Bay. Uh, not all of them, the dive watches, just the, you know, the blue dial is quite lovely in the black Bay. I don't, I don't know if that necessarily counts as a, a bright, uh, or certainly off in a white sense. If you have the budget, I couldn't say enough nice things about 16570 Explorer II in white, the polar dial. I have one, I adore it. It's my favorite Rolex. It's about 39 millimeters. It wears like 40, I think is fair. and it sits nice and low and you're not going to get a brighter dial for sure. And finally, I would say, dig up a Hallios C4. He made them in tons of different colors, at least three generations plus a GMT. They're available on the market. I think the pricing has cooled in many ways on those back to, you know, sort of a normal. Hallios always does well after market, but with some of them, when they would launch, there'd be an extra kind of value attached to them because people had missed their chance to pre-order. And then as far as new watches, you know, it's always worth keeping an eye on brands like Halios. Scurfa does some light dial watches as well and yellow and that sort of thing. I think, yeah, like Jason said, there's kind of a ton out there. You just kind of have to sort through the stuff that doesn't align directly with your normal black dial dive watch. Uh, you know, it sounds like you're enjoying the, you know, the big pop of color you get from that Zodiac, which, uh, I certainly can't blame you. Those are really fun. Uh, but in my mind, yeah, I'd be looking at a diver 65 or an Explorer too, if that's within the budget range and you can, you can track one down. Uh, yeah, some great stuff. Uh, be sure to let us know what you ended up getting Victoria. We're excited to, uh, to hear what you, what you find and what, what you think kind of suits your wrist after, uh, after the hunt, uh, comes to some sort of fruition there. Next up, we have a question from a fellow named James about peaking to Paris. |
| James from Melbourne | G'day Jason and James. James here from Melbourne, Australia. Love your Greynado podcast. Whilst it's watches that drew me here, it's really average Joe achievable adventure stories that resonate with me and inspire me. I also love the interviews that you guys do from time to time. Jason's interview with Nims and James's interview with Corey Richards are a couple that really stood out for me. Keep up the great work, guys. Anyway, my question for you is on behalf of a friend of mine. Anyway, this friend is participating in the 2022 Peking to Paris Motor Challenge, an event that I'm sure James and probably Jason as well is familiar with. For those in your audience who aren't familiar with the event, it's basically a month-long self-supported rally driving vintage cars halfway across the globe from Peking, now known as Beijing, to Paris. Understandably with such an event there's quite a lot of logistical planning involved and my friend has entrusted in me what is undoubtedly the most important part of the planning, choosing an appropriate wristwatch. His criteria include the following, the watch must be robust, it must have a decent waterproofness, let's say about 100 meters but we don't have to be a stickler on that one, Around about 42 millimeters in size and the price range is up to 600 Australian dollars But so we don't get too hung up on exchange rates. Let's say 600 US and we can push him if we need to I guess He's a bit of a watch guy without being a nut like most of the listeners in the audience today He has in his collection a Breitling Superocean Chrono and a Tag Heuer Monaco I've already considered various Seiko dive watches, including SKX, Turtles, Arnies, the usual suspects there. Also CWCs, Mark II Paradive, Bold Adventure, Marathons and G-Shocks. Anyway guys, I'd be interested to know what your recommendations would be, whether it's one of those watches I've already listed, or if there's any other options that I might have missed, I'd be really interested to hear your thoughts on that. Thanks in advance for considering my question. And oh yeah, on behalf of all of the Aussies in your audience, I think it's awesome that you both rock a pair of Blunnies. Great work, guys. Look forward to the next show. Cheers. |
| James Stacey | All right. Thanks very much for that question, James. And wow, what an adventure. Wouldn't that be a thing, Jason, peaking to Paris in a couple of years? Yeah. Yeah. It's a proper thing. And for anyone not quite sure how it works, look up some stories. I think we've even included some in final notes in the past. but it is just middle of nowhere racing. You know, it's stages, big rally stage racing and it looks like such a blast and all sorts of different vehicles show up and brands and privateers and the rest of it. I think it's super fun. And as far as a watch, anything jumped to mind, Jason? |
| Jason Heaton | Well, you know, he mentioned a few different ideas and I'm inclined to go the quartz route for this. I think the last thing you want to do or the last thing you want to worry about when you're doing something like this is your watch. I mean, this is like climbing a mountain or doing an ultra marathon, except you have the very hard edges and, and, and unforgiving nature of working on a car, like lying on your back in the mud, replacing a prop shaft or something. You just don't want to have to worry about a mechanical watch getting bashed. Um, I like the price range, you know, 600 bucks is about right. You could probably go cheaper if you went with something from Seiko, but I, I think the Sepharni would be a good choice. You know, solar, you've got second time zone, you've got alarms, good loom, pretty indestructible. I think, you know, like a Marathon TSAR, the Tritium SAR, battery-powered, you know, pretty bomb-proof watch with a big chunky bezel. I'm on record many times as being a real fan of the CWC quartz divers. Maybe a little on the expensive side, but they haven't let me down, and kind of a low-profile, bomb-proof, kind of quartz piece. Yeah, I think that's kind of the route to go. I think this is one of those situations where, okay, you want a companion, you want a timepiece, you want something to function, but you also don't want something you even have to think about. And I think a mechanical watch is just too fragile for this sort of thing. It's not just skiing or climbing or hiking. fiddling around under the under the hood of a car or underneath the car. Yeah. Banging things around. And I think quartz is the way to go or solar. But any any other ideas? |
| James Stacey | Yeah, I mean, I have a few if you're willing, if he's willing to go digital, it sounds like he already has a couple of really nice watches. So maybe a simple digital watch would be a nice way to remember it. It could be beat up in the scars that look really cool on something like a, you know, a Casio Rangeman is a great option. We've talked at length about Garmin Instincts. which I think would be basically perfect for this application, especially depending on what you're already using in the truck for navigation, because it's quite possible it's also Garmin and might have some sort of connected ability with the watch and its ability. And so I think you can go well with any Garmin, but certainly the Instinct feels like just about right for this, doesn't weigh anything. I don't think you'd really sweat it if you had to stick both arms into a cramped wheel well or something to free up some rocks or some mud or or into an engine bay where you might scratch pretty hard to scratch something else. And beyond that, like I said, I think a Casio arrangement would be just about perfect. I used to like having those because it was easy to wear on the outside of my jacket. I had great big buttons for gloves and a great screen, tons of battery life, the rest of it. And then if you really want something analog, I would take a look at Victorinox's Inox line. They make them in diver and non-diver. I think they're super handsome. They're also specifically made to be almost indestructible. They come in quartz. They come in automatic as well, which you can go for. I think the automatic one, they forego a couple of the tests, including the thrown out of a three-story window. But the quartz ones can be run over by a tank and can survive a certain amount of heat for a certain amount of time. And I think they're a nice looking watch that doesn't get spoken about a lot simply because like Victorinox is this You know, go with something that's not so dear, and certainly your price point is helpful at this point, but go with something that's not so dear that when you get home from doing Peking to Paris, it can become kind of a little trophy on your desk. You take off your just your chewed up Garmin or your Casio or your Victorinox or your CWC, and you put it on a nice little stand that says, you know, Peking to Paris 2020. And it becomes kind of a nice little memento that you maybe take the next time you do Peking to Paris or some other race in the same sort of guys. That's how I would think about it. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah, I love that. And I'm a huge fan of Victorinox. I'm glad you brought that one up. And I think it might be a little out of the price range, but if you get the carbon version, you can then report back to us and to Evan. about how that carbon held up, given his question. |
| James Stacey | Yeah, for sure. It really is. It's an interesting line of watches that I never see them in. Yeah. In the public. Yeah. But they are, especially for anyone who doesn't know the watch I'm talking about, go read a couple of reviews. I'll try and dig up what I've got. But, you know, they make these incredibly difficult to kill watches almost because that's like the design brief. They're like, let's make something that's really hard to kill. And I'm seeing, you know, the standard 43 millimeter in a steel case. with a simple quartz movement. And it has to withstand 130 extreme endurance homologation tests. It's only 13 millimeters thick. Like I said, it's a quartz movement. It comes on a black rubber strap. It's 575 Canadian, which puts it in the 400 range. Perfect. Mid-low 400. So I think you'd definitely be able to hit your 600 AUD price point with a set of these. And by all accounts, certainly Victorinox and otherwise, they are, you know, they're built like a Peking to Paris truck for sure. They're going to go the mile. So that sounds super fun. James, keep us posted on how that goes. And if it ends up, you know, closer to 2022, if we can follow along and see how your buddy progresses, please send the link to thegreatnado at gmail.com. Next up, we've got a question from a guy named JD about smaller size watches. |
| JD | Hey guys, this is JD in Denver, Colorado. Just listening to your episode 117 Summary DC and enjoying your conversation about divers around the 40 millimeter range. Much more reasonable size for a lot of people. I recently read that the classic Rolex GMT Master, I think it might be reference 1675 from decades ago. Measures out at 38 millimeters by 45 or so lug to lug and 11 thick. So I just wanted to ask you guys, that seems like such a great size and of course people love that watch for a lot of other reasons, but is there a reason that manufacturers aren't actually chasing such a pragmatic and well-regarded sized sport watch like that these days? Will it be impossible for them to get from 40 to 41 to 38 to 40? Love to hear your thoughts on it. Thanks. Keep up the great job. |
| Jason Heaton | Um, well, I, I actually think manufacturers are headed in that direction. I think we're seeing, uh, we're, we're kind of entering a new golden age of, of well-sized sports watches. Uh, you know, the, the black bay 58, the, Rolex has always made pretty reasonably sized watches. Sin, you can still find some really nice smaller watches. Seiko tends to be on the larger size, but they make a full range. I would say the era of the giant watch is certainly not past for good. I'm sure these things come in waves and I'm sure we'll see big, giant 45 millimeter divers again in another 10 years or so. But I think we're kind of going through another smaller watch phase, not necessarily small, but you know, the size you, you referenced the 38 to 40 size range. I think we're, we're seeing so many watches coming back in that, uh, in that kind of area. And, uh, you know, I'm happy to see it. You know, I'm a big guy and I've got a couple of big watches personally, but, um, I'm with you. I think, I think reasonably sized watches just works so well on are just so classic. Uh, James, what do you think about that? |
| James Stacey | Yeah, no, I would agree. And I actually, J.D., I would say that there's tons of options right now for under 40 millimeters, especially if you're talking 38 to 40. Think of, you know, the standard Rolex Explorer right now. The 114 270 is 39 millimeters and maybe maybe a millimeter and a half longer lug to lug than the the 1675 that you referenced. The Tudor Black Bay, like Jason mentioned, comes in the 58, which is a 39 millimeter sizing. Panerai makes a 38 millimeter version of the Luminor, the Luminor Due. That's a watch that, you know, eight years ago would have been 45 millimeters, right? You can get an Aqua Terra at 38 millimeters, which is a fantastic watch. Breitling makes a 38mm Navitimer 1, which is what Jason was referencing, I believe, in the question from Victoria earlier. And then you can even find, you know, slightly more dressier stuff. Seiko, Grand Seiko has options at 39.5mm, and Rolex only just discontinued the 39mm OP for the 41mm version, but my guess is those aren't going to be impossible to find. So if you want a 39mm Rolex that isn't an Explorer, or if you want one with a light dial, Maybe this would work for Victoria as well with her previous question. They made a white dial, 39mm OP, and there's a bunch at 36mm if you want to go even smaller than that window that you had provided. So I think now's a pretty killer time to actually be looking for watches at this size range. And if you want closer to 40 from a less expensive option, the Seiko SPB14X line, which I've talked way too much about at this point, Those are 40.5. I'd say they wear maybe even a bit smaller than that on wrist. And of course you can still get a smaller SKX at 37-ish millimeters for the SKX013. So I think you're kind of spoiled for choice. While I think definitely the trend in dive watches for the last decade has been towards really big stuff. We're getting more and more coming back towards the sub 41 sort of range. And then you have to account for thickness and lug shape and the rest of it, because like we've learned and talked about before with Doxa, the sub 300s are, you know, 42.5 and they don't wear anywhere near that big. So there's always that sort of mix of the three case dimensions and then the actual case shape. And then there's the, the kind of solve for why of the, the, the shape of your own wrist. But certainly there's lots of options in 38 to 40 these days. So thanks very much for that question, JD, and happy hunting for a smaller watch. Jason, what do you say we do two more? |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah, let's do it. Next up is Jeff, who's asking us about dress watches. |
| Jeff | Hi, Jason and James. This is Jeff from San Francisco. I'm a huge fan of the show, and I have listened to every episode over the years. While the show is largely covered sports watches and the adventure lifestyle, You both have made at least passing mentions of dress watches or the idea and fantasy of having one great dress watch. I recently saved for and celebrated a special occasion with a longer one is my one grail dress watch. I liked that I could still wear it casually with a sweatshirt or even a t-shirt in certain situations. If you could pick one dream proper dress watch on leather, what would be your considerations and what would you ultimately choose? Any watch, vintage or new, is fair game. This could be anything from a Max Bill, to a Cartier Tank, to a vintage Patek, a Grand Seiko Credo, or even a modern independent, such as the Ecrivia Chronomet Contemporain. Looking forward to hearing your thoughts and selections. Thanks so much for all of your amazing content across all platforms over the years. Take care. |
| James Stacey | You want to go first with that one? Sure. |
| Jason Heaton | Thanks, Jeff. Lange 1. Wow, that's a great choice. You know, my dressiest watch currently, I've got a Grand Seiko GMT that I bought in Tokyo that is a great memento of that trip. And it's as dressy as I've gone in my own collection. But I have to admit, I never wear it unless I have a dressy occasion, which is extremely rare. But I think it meets my criteria in that it's interesting as well as dressy. I think kind of the classic definition of a dress watch is something that doesn't draw attention to itself. It's supposed to just sort of be a small accoutrement to, you know, whatever you're wearing, a suit or a tuxedo or something. And I find a lot of those very stark and minimalist dress watches a bit, shall I say, boring. So I think a dress watch for me would have to have a little bit of zing to it, a little bit of visual interest, maybe a gadget to it. And I think in that respect, I was thinking about this. I keep coming back to the Jaeger-LeCoultre Reverso. It's a watch that I hardly ever think about, but when I see one, I think to myself, you know, that would just be a fun watch to wear just simply because of what you can do with it. And I think you can engrave the, you know, the opposite side of it and wear it that way, or you can flip it around and wear it so the time side is out. And I think, you know, it's the right size and an interesting shape. And I think I could see wearing something like that. And I'm also glad you mentioned the Junghans Max Bill series, because I love those watches. They're just stunning. And I think, you know, as far as something more affordable than, say, a Reverso, I think I could see myself having a Max Bill one day and kind of wear it on dressier occasions. James, you used to have a Gerard Perregaux dress watch. Is that long gone now? |
| James Stacey | I did, yeah. I sold that one. It was a simple hand winder, you know, kind of in the same vein as the Hamilton Intramatic. |
| Jason Heaton | Oh, yeah. |
| James Stacey | 38s that they are. They're a very similar style. A bunch of brands made them back in the 60s. I'm fairly old from Patek Philippe. You know, I have a huge, I think, like a gold, gold 1518 chronograph would be pretty incredible. I don't think you can ever go wrong with a 2526, a yellow gold 2526 with the enamel dial. Pretty, pretty insanely beautiful, kind of perfect dress watch aesthetic. And then, I mean, yes, sky's the limit. Sure. Let's talk 2499s. perpetual chronographs, pretty incredible things, great history on those, beautiful watches, great size, and just insanely rare. But honestly, there would be a big side of me, Jeff, that would also look for a Lange 1. I have a huge fondness for the early yellow gold closed case back models. They're on, you know, the range of the more affordable, you know, secondhand longer ones that are out there, but certainly have had their rise in the last little while. I think it's interesting to have a movement of that beauty covered. It's a very chairman decision to do so. And I think those are really gorgeous watches. As far as something on a more accessible side, Considering I've just spoke about a handful of watches that could easily be seven figure in some cases Yeah, I don't I don't know the the youngins is a great option a simple I would probably try and find maybe a secondhand quartz Cartier tank You know in the quartz side It's not gonna cost you nearly as much and you might even have a little bit more flexibility in terms of the size that you get But those are kind of timeless and elegant and beautiful and what everybody says about them. I think that's where I would land either something like a tank. I don't think you can go wrong with a Lange 1 ever. What a cool, cool thing. And then if we're truly talking sky's the limit, get me a super rare yellow gold Patek Philippe, preferably a perpetual. And if it's a perpetual chrono, all the better. |
| Jason Heaton | Good question, a little bit left of TGN's typical subject matter and I like that, so thanks for that. Last question coming from Nacho from Argentina. |
| Nacho | Hey guys, Nacho here from Argentina and I wanted to ask you guys a question about increasing popularity of watches and vintage watches in the last five years. Nowadays we're seeing more and more enthusiasts getting into the hobby and also in the vintage market too. 8-5 years ago, you could buy a University of Geneva Polaroid for as little as $800, where nowadays they go for $2000-$3000. What do you guys think the reason for that is? And yeah, a huge fan of the great NATO and looking forward to the next episode. |
| James Stacey | Hey, Nacho, thanks very much for that question. So Jason, if you don't mind, I can kick this one off. I think a big thing is probably the difference between the cost of a watch five years ago or 10 years ago and now is probably in part due to the fault of people like Jason and I. 10 years ago, blogs were kind of just kicking off. I mean, Hodinkee's in its 12th year now. And I think the popularity really started to hit, say, about five or six years ago. in terms of these becoming the various blogs, of which there's now a couple dozen, that have become kind of the voice of the enthusiast, but to a much larger audience than it used to be. Maybe when there was an in-depth post on something a decade ago, it was on TimeZone, and a few thousand people saw it and kind of understood what they were looking at and maybe understood the providence of something like a UG poll router. But then when you combine the growth and kind of proliferation of so-called professional watch blogging, and then on top of that Instagram, I think that a lot of things that maybe previously kind of changed hands in their own circle suddenly had some visibility outside of that circle. So maybe UG guys have always known about pole routers and whatnot, and the price kind of reflected the size of that circle and the general desirability within that circle, but then if that leaves the kind of group, then you have kind of a change in that. And I think that's happened to a lot of vintage watches. And I think the other thing, and this would be interesting, Jason, to see what you think on this, is I think there's just a general come up with beautiful vintage watches simply because of what's happened with things like some of the Pateks I just listed, like a lot of Rolexes, like a lot of APs. I think there's a general you know, rising of all ships when it comes to these things. And as soon as there's a back story that the watch has any provenance, even if it's not from a brand like Rolex or AP or Patek Philippe, it can still see a huge rise in price just based on how many there are on the market. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah, I think there's several factors at work here. I think if you want to take a more sort of cultural, psychological perspective, you know, maybe there's some nostalgia at work for a simpler time. um, you know, or, or things that, um, have sort of lasting value, uh, in a world in which everything is so, you know, constructed for obsolescence and we're replacing our phones every couple of years and leasing cars for three years and things like this. Um, I think from, uh, maybe a different perspective, you know, what, what you said, James, about, you know, just simply the ability to, to read about this stuff and share it, um, whether on the blogs that, that rose, you know, 10, 12 years ago into the magazines and onto social media. Um, but I think also, you know, the way people wear watches nowadays, uh, we're, we're not wearing watches by and large as tools like people used to, you know, grandpa used to get up in the morning, put his watch on to tell the time and he had one watch and he'd wear it to the office or wherever he was going to work and come home and take it off in the evening. Um, it was on his wrist all the time. I think nowadays people have collections, people wear them more carefully, even modern watches. And I think in that case, a vintage watch functions just as well as, and could be treated the same as, as a luxury modern watch. And so I think they become a little more wearable in that respect. But I also feel that, um, people also like what's rare. And I think if you can go to a Jared Jewelers or a shopping mall or just even a a Rolex dealer and plunk down and buy a watch, a modern watch. Once you get into that and you start taking interest in watches, you read about this rare piece, this Paul Newman, whatever it is, and you think, huh, you know, there are these rarer pieces out there that if I wear it, it sets me apart from the guy sitting across the aisle on the plane who's got the new Rolex if I'm wearing one from 1978 or something. And I think, I don't know what it is about human nature that we like rare things. But the older things get, they tend to get more and more rare because they get lost or damaged. So it's not even enough to have a 1978 Rolex. You have to have a 1978 Rolex with a peculiar kind of dial or that belonged to somebody that was famous or something. And I think it sort of just goes on and on from there down these very narrow channels, such as your example of the Universal Geneves. It's a bigger topic. You know, it could almost be a whole episode for us discussing the appeal of vintage watches, but it's a fascinating one. |
| James Stacey | I think that there's something to be said for the fact that the current range of popularity in everything from furniture to cars is that sort of late fifties into the sixties. And that was certainly a sweet point for architecture, for furniture, for automobiles, and certainly for watches. uh, you know, the birth of a lot from dive watches to sports chronographs to everything else. And I think part of it is tied to that. And then the other thing that I didn't touch on in my previous reply was simply that the metric of being able to buy these has changed in the last three years, even, or four years. You don't have to know someone directly. You don't have to go to Italy to get the watch anymore. Not only are there a lot of vintage dealers that are perfectly trustworthy and are doing a great business bringing these watches to a wider audience in a safer manner, one that presents less risk to the buyer, but that didn't exist a few years ago. Online retail for new watches is really just starting to take off. And for vintage watches, especially in terms of metrics of being safe and how you're paying, The dealers have always been around. They've been around for a long time, of course, and could still find you the same watch 20 years ago as you would want now. But you now have kind of a more store, almost retail like experience versus, you know, like buying a watch from a guy that you don't know. And I think that speaks to the general kind of appreciation for these watches is if you remove barriers like the knowledge barrier, the enthusiast barrier, and even then some of the barriers of sourcing the actual model that you want. Uh, if you remove all of those, you'll, you're, you're going to create kind of a pathway that brings more people to a watch that maybe wasn't always that well-known. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. I think all that's true. I think, uh, I think by and large, it's a great thing. I mean, other than, you know, the rising prices that, that keep us from being able to buy all these great pieces. Uh, I love to see old watches get their further time in the sun. |
| Sean | For sure. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. |
| James Stacey | Well, thanks very much for that question, Nacho, and for everybody else that sent in a question. We got to as many as we could today. Surprisingly, we still have a good chunk that we'll have to go to next month. I didn't want this to be much more than an hour long. We're pushing up on an hour and a half now. Maybe we need to rethink how long a Q&A episode can be. Maybe we should just go forward and get them all done and hope that you guys will send in more questions. If you want more questions on the Q&A, be sure to send your own in. If we get flooded with them, we'll have to clear them out at some point, so you'll get that long episode somewhere down the road. But yeah, like I said at the top, please, if you have a question for us, say it directly into the voice memo app on your phone. Try and keep it to a minute if you can, and email it to thegraynado at gmail.com. We look forward to hearing from each and every one of you, and we really appreciate the time that all of our question askers took to send in their questions for this episode. When you hear this, I'm actually not totally sure, but probably just a few days after we record it, and I hope you guys all like it. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah, and as always, thanks so much for listening and for sending in your questions. You can follow us on Instagram at Jason Heaton and at J.E. Stacey, and be sure to follow the show at The Graynado. And if you have any questions for us, please do write to thegraynado at gmail.com because we do still answer email questions as well. And of course, send in those voice memos. Please subscribe and review wherever you find your podcasts. Music Throughout is Siesta by JazzArr via the Free Music Archive. |
| James Stacey | And we leave you with this quote from Samuel Johnson who said, Curiosity is, in great and generous minds, the first passion and the last. |