The Grey NATO - 123 - Diving Deeper With Ocean Explorer Extraordinaire Laurent Ballesta
Published on Thu, 10 Sep 2020 06:00:13 -0400
Synopsis
Jason and James discuss an upcoming camping trip in Jason's Land Rover, and some new outdoor clothing from the brand Norrøna that they received to test. They talk about the work Jason has been doing renovating an old property, including installing a new floor. They then have an in-depth interview with renowned French underwater photographer and explorer Laurent Ballesta about his ambitious diving expeditions, use of technology, partnership with Blancpain watches, and a recent groundbreaking expedition living in a pressurized habitat for a month while diving in the Mediterranean. James also discusses his new leather bag from the Observer Collection as a celebration of the podcast reaching 100 episodes.
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Transcript
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| Unknown | Hello and welcome to another episode of The Grey Nado, a Hodinkee podcast. |
| Jason Heaton | It's a loose discussion of travel, diving, driving, gear, and most certainly watches. This is episode 123 and it's proudly brought to you by G-Shock and their Master of G line of tough, toolish, and tech-forward watches. We thank you for listening. James, getting chilly. It turned into fall overnight here. How about up by you? |
| James Stacey | Absolutely. Yeah. The, uh, the days of me complaining about it suddenly being too hot to run or whatever, uh, is, is, uh, I think behind us now we're, we're firmly in the mid teens Celsius here in Toronto, even colder at the project property, which I have some updates on, uh, for a little bit later in the show, but yeah, it's, uh, it's, uh, it's nice. It's nice to be kind of seeing the start of fall. I mean, the, we, we both live somewhere that has three solid seasons. |
| Unknown | Yeah. |
| James Stacey | And I think that the three months or so that you get of any one season is kind of enough. |
| Unknown | Yeah. |
| James Stacey | Uh, maybe not with fall and I could do with about 25 minutes of winter unless I'm skiing. Um, but certainly the, the, you know, 90 plus Fahrenheit summer scenario is, uh, is something that I won't miss at a high level. It's been, um, it's been a great summer. It's been like, we've, we've said this before, but you know, with the, with the current, you know, social scenario being one that has very much limited travel, it's been pretty special to spend this kind of time at home base or near home base. And, uh, and, and yeah, so that's been good. It's been good for projects and other kinds of stuff like that. And then what do you know? Uh, episode one, two, three, baby. |
| Jason Heaton | Right. Exactly. Yeah. And speaking of this, speaking of this weather, I just checked it's 10 degrees centigrade here right now. And it's like mid day. And that's actually cold. It's like forties or low fifties or something Fahrenheit. So, and it went from eighties Fahrenheit on Sunday, like overnight. So, um, So, you know, uh, coincidentally or conveniently, um, yeah, we got lucky with the timing on this one. Yeah. One of our listeners is, uh, he's, uh, in the marketing department over at a Norwegian clothing company called Neurona. Uh, I hope I'm pronouncing that. Okay. Uh, Neurona is a brand that I wasn't really on my radar. I think I knew vaguely of them, but, uh, not, uh, not intimately. And he wrote to us and asked if we'd be interested in trying out some of their clothes and maybe talk about it a little bit on, on TGN and so we gave him a little bit of a wish list and he sent over some samples from their fall and winter collection of, I don't know what you'd call it, sort of outdoor, not quite full technical clothing, but some of it certainly could fall in that category, but it's just really, really nice stuff. I compare it to like a Fjallraven, Arcteryx kind of blend in terms of design and functionality. And so far I'm loving it, but you know, we're just at the start of this season. |
| James Stacey | And I think a lot of the stuff that we kind of selected them to send, or like we had offered, is a little bit more on the casual side. The brand has some more intense Arterix-y sort of stuff, and then they have some more casual stuff that is kind of like... I think that kind of nexus between a Fjallraven and an Arterix seems to make sense to me. The stuff that they sent, I was almost immediately blown away by. You don't have to experience too much outerwear, to understand that it comes in varying degrees, and certainly the price reflects that these are not cheap pieces of clothing. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah, and on my end, the only thing I've really been wearing extensively is they sent this kind of pair of technical hiking shorts that are slightly longer than knee length, so it's kind of a strange length. They're a bit like knickers, but really functional with a lot of pockets and venting, and a blend of kind of stretchy and a tough abrasion-resistant material. I've been wearing that quite a bit and then I'm really looking forward to getting into some of the the pullovers and they sent a puffy jacket and And like a wind vest that I was planning on using for fall cycling. So, you know, we don't want to Go in too deep here yet because we really haven't had a chance to try all this stuff out yet but in Subsequent episodes as we've had a chance to wear these clothes as the weather gets getting cooler We'll definitely give a full full update on this stuff. So thanks to neurona and stay tuned for more info and kind of our reviews of this stuff. |
| James Stacey | Their website is neurona.com. This is not a sponsorship. They sent some clothes. We're talking about them. It's not uncommon for the show. But if you want to check it out, neurona.com, that's N-O-R-R-O-N-A. And we'll report back as we get a chance to use it more as the weather cools off around us. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. So speaking of your time at the cottage, it sounds like you put in some pretty intense weeks of work. You put in a floor, you sent me a few update photos. That was a big lift it looked like. |
| James Stacey | Yeah, so it's a pretty old property that needs a bunch of work, but we're trying to be pretty thoughtful about only ever doing any of these upgrades once. So the kitchen space needed a brand new floor, like a real floor. It needed a lot of work beneath the floor, and then it needed a proper floor that can't really go anywhere and might also be strong enough to keep other parts of the structure standing. We did it in two days, the whole thing. We did it really in a day, but we had other stuff to do on the property as well. So we've been working through those projects, but yeah, we ended up installing an entire new floor, anchored into the old foundation and properly tied off. And due to, I'm sure anyone here that's trying to do DIY projects, unless it's vastly different in the States, but for anyone in Canada, I think you probably know that pressure treated wood is pretty hard to come by these days. There's been a shortage, especially in areas where people might be building decks. So we got lucky in that a local source to where this property is had two by tens. So it's just an even stronger floor at this point, we would have used probably two by eights. But yeah, so it's been fun and it's also has involved like me being able to learn a bunch of new things. And when it came to the floor, one of my younger brothers has much more experience in construction and framing and all those sorts of things. So he was basically in charge and just kind of do this, do that sort of scenario. But I got to, you know, uh, get a little bit more practice pulling a trailer with the Jeep and, uh, and certainly a lot more practice with a variety of hand tools and, and, uh, you know, impact hammers and nail guns and all sorts of fun stuff. |
| Jason Heaton | Nice. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, in any other year you would have been, you know, uh, mincing around Basel world or at some sort of ritzy press trip. And instead you're, you're, you're learning some new skills. That's a, that's an upside. That's really good. |
| James Stacey | Yeah, the goal being to get the property up to kind of cabin spec. And then I have a lot of siblings, extended family, there's lots of people who would be able to use it. It's nicely isolated, which is cool, but also not that far from the greater Toronto area. So pretty good that way. And yeah, like you said, if things had carried on as we thought they might have back in February, I never would have had the time. to devote to this. It's been not a big lift. I appreciate my brothers at a pretty high level and their ability to kind of dig deep and show up on their weekends off and that sort of thing and put work in, and it's coming together. So we have a couple more weekends of work, definitely, just to get it ready for next summer even. But I'm working my way down a few different lines for wood stoves. So we'll see about possibly putting a wood stove in there and getting the original kind of log cabin part of the structure, the central part of the structure, kind of winterish ready or fall and spring ready and maybe extend the time we have up there. But for the most part, these are like little car camping trips, you know, sleeping in a field near the house. I love being in a tent, so that's been a treat, especially with, you know, the kind of general camping scenario not being all that appealing these days. Uh, so yeah, that's been, that's been a plus, uh, getting a chance to use a bunch of gear and, and, and that sort of thing. And certainly enjoying an excuse to research and buy the occasional power tool. So it's, it's been a plus for this summer. Absolutely. Yeah. And I see, uh, on, on our notes here, you've got to, uh, a camping trip of your own coming up this week. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. So we're recording this on a Tuesday and, um, when this episode goes live, uh, Gashani and I will be on the road, um, in one fashion or another, um, headed South. We're usually go North for, for camping, but, uh, Gashani went to college down just across the border in northeastern Iowa in this charming little town called Decorah where it's kind of in a river valley with some beautiful cliffs and forest and things down there. And she has some friends that still live down there and they've got a fair bit of property in the country outside of town. And we're going to go and do some socially distant kind of visiting with them by camping on their property. And, you know, we used to go down there fairly often and it's usually from door to door about two and a half hours if we just take the highway down. But we're going to take the Land Rover and this will be by far the longest excursion I've done or we've done since I, since I bought the truck almost exactly three years ago. And, uh, so it'll be about 400 miles round trip and we're going to break it into, make it kind of a three day total trip. So on the way down, we're going to go about, I'd say three hours of driving. We'll see how that goes. Um, and then camp in a state forest campground on the way. Uh, kind of one of those first come first serve sites, uh, minimal, uh, accommodations just to, you know, fire ring and maybe a picnic table and that's it. And, uh, and then do the rest of the trip the next day. And so we're, you know, it's, it's the short wheelbase Land Rover, not much space in the back, but it'll be about half tools and spare oil and parts and the other half camping, camping gear. And, uh, but I think the weather will hold this, this cooler weather is good for a trip like that because you don't want to be you know, scorching on a really hot day, driving in a truck that doesn't have great cooling capabilities or ventilation. So, um, yeah, yeah, I've kind of been kind of been getting ready slowly for the past couple of weeks. You know, I had a summer of upgrades and repairs on this thing, including that broken axle from a few weeks back. And so knock on wood, everything's in good shape. I I've checked and changed all the, the fluids, the differentials, the gearbox, the transfer case, and I'm going to do the engine oil probably today or tomorrow. Um, you know, I've got a spare drive belt and distributor and points and some spark plugs and, and, you know, some jugs of oil cause this thing leaks pretty badly. And, uh, and I think we'll be in decent shape. I, uh, I even managed to mount, you know, a while back I got this dashboard stopwatch from a Harrier jump jet, um, from CWC. My, my buddies over there at CWC in England sent me this, uh, it's one of these dash mounted stopwatches. And, uh, I mounted that to the dash, which, you know, Seems a little humorous given how slow a Land Rover moves, but I think it's going to be perfect because it has a 12-hour jumping hour counter. So we'll be able to time the trip using this cool dash-mounted stopwatch out of a fighter jet. So I think that'll be a fun little element of it. That might be the only part of the Land Rover that actually survives the whole trip. We'll see what falls off. |
| James Stacey | I think that sounds like a fantastic way to spend a weekend. And yeah, as long as you've got some, especially fluids, you should be good. I've even gotten to the point with the Jeep where I'm traveling with some oil, although to say that it's inconsistent in how thirsty it is for oil would be nowhere near the correct statement. I'm a few thousand kilometers into this oil change and it's not using any from what I can tell compared to At this point in the last one, it had used almost 40% of the reserve. So either there was a problem with the original oil change and it's bad data, but I'm not really sure. So now every time I put gas in it, I check the oil. I've become my father. That's how you always check an oil and air pressure. Now all of his sons have somewhat derelict vehicles, myself nowhere near as my brothers, but we're back to checking the oil and the air pressure. |
| Unknown | Yeah, yeah. |
| James Stacey | Good things to know, though. You don't really come back from a full-on failure of oil. Right. Whether it be generally too much is pretty bad, or too little is pretty bad, but too much isn't a lot better. |
| Jason Heaton | So I've got a little story along those lines. We had a Mazda Miata, a 2008 Mazda Miata, that Ghoshani mainly drove to and from work. And now she's been working from home, and it's been sitting. And we decided to clear out the garage and sell it. And we bought it about five years ago. When we were looking at the car at a dealer, I was looking at all the old paperwork and I saw this note on one of the early receipts, repair receipts that said that it got an entirely new engine installed. And I was like, what? You know, this car, low miles, like it had gotten this engine within the first 10,000 miles of ownership from the previous owner. And so I was reading the notes and it looks like what happened was, um, it was in for an oil change and whoever did the oil change did not seal the oil filter well enough. You know, they have a seal that just threads on and screws onto the engine. And that seal was clearly not good enough and it lost all of its oil and seized the engine. And so I assume it was under warranty and he had to have a new engine put in. |
| James Stacey | Warranty or, you know, certainly if it was done at the dealership, but whoever had done that service, their service depot would have been on the hook for that. that whoopsie. Yeah, I mean, I had a friend lose. What would it have been? Jeep Grand Cherokee of some sort from over a decade ago. This is a while back, but the place forgot to put the drain plug back in. Oh my God. So it was already warmed up when he grabbed it and either the drain plug was just barely in place or... I don't know why you would put an oil drain plug kind of back. Yeah, yeah, right. You kind of want it all the way in how it needs to be or off, because you're still draining oil. Yeah. But he got it the mile home or whatever and parked it and proceeded to just be able to see it drain the rest of the oil. And sure enough, it had caused some pretty extensive damage to the internals. So yeah, that's always a risk you run, right? Especially, you know, I take the Jeep to one of those kind of quick places that you don't have to wait a long time, like not a normal garage, a place that does oil changes. And yeah, it's not something I've really convinced myself that due to the cost of my own time, that it's worth it to do it myself. But I may get there at some point. Yeah. And, you know, the last thing I've got on my list here before we get into a risk check and a pretty fun main topic, a huge chat with a really interesting guest today is I know that people are listening and wondering, you know, oh, it's the 10th or whatever when this comes out. And I don't have my Q&A from August yet. And I know I have the file. Jason and I recorded it just a little while ago. with the hopes of putting it out, you know, in the first few days of September. And the schedule just kind of got away from me. So everybody will get, you know, a refund for what they're paying monthly for TGN. But no, you know, I apologize. This is a new format that we're going to where the Q&A is kind of a floater episode that should come out kind of within a couple days of the start or end of a given month. Um, and this one's just going to be a little bit late, but I'm hoping, uh, early next week, if you're listening to this on the Thursday, it comes out. You might have to wait three or four more days, uh, for me to get that episode ready. It's just been a busy season between, uh, Geneva watch days. And then as we're talking about this, the whole reason we're recording this maybe even a little bit earlier than we might is because there's going to be, um, watches and wonders Shanghai. And, uh, so like seven hours we'll kick off and that could change my entire schedule for another week. So. I'm doing my best with the Q&A. I will get it up to you before I have to publish the September one. It's a bit of a learning process that way. But for those who are waiting for it, it is coming. We're not skipping it. I'll get it done. There's only so many hours in the day and we're doing our best to keep the ball rolling with our biweekly episodes. So I appreciate the patience on that one and a huge thank you to all the great questions. We got so many questions. We have leftover questions for the next one. So, as we always say, if you've got a question for us that isn't, you know, when is the next Q&A coming out? Because I've answered that one. You know, put it into a voicemail on your phone, email it to thegreatnadoatgmail.com, and we can't wait to hear your happy, beautiful voice. Jason, what do you got on wrist? |
| Jason Heaton | Lately, I've been wearing the CWC Royal Navy Diver. This is the 1983 reissue with that really beautiful poured resin, fully hashed bezel, uh, the quartz one. Um, it's just been, it's been a great watch for banging around. It's a watch that, uh, if we had done, if we'd released the Q and a episode before this one, I could actually refer to a question that we got during that, but I'll, I'll make people wait and listen to that. But, uh, um, yeah, I think it's going to be, I haven't quite decided what I'm going to wear on this, uh, Land Rover camping trip, but I think it might be this one just because, uh, it's a watch I don't really have to worry about. bashing around. It's pretty steady and of course it's got some British provenance which seems to go well with the Land Rover trip. So I'm breaking that in today and I'll probably keep it on the rest of the week. |
| James Stacey | How about you? I actually have a special one. So it's a watch that I had wanted to take a look at for a really long time but there was no reason to because there was no real demand for a bunch more coverage through Hodinkee. It was something that we covered a bunch when it came out and the interest in the watch I think was more like mine than most people's. And that's the Tudor Black Bay Chrono in steel and gold. Beautiful. So I got a chance to borrow one of these for a bit, and I haven't really had the conversation about when it's gonna go back. It has to go back, of course. But man, I got it in and popped it off the bracelet, and I've been wearing it on NATOs and leather NATOs, and now I have it on 22 millimeter Zulu Diver 328 rubber NATO. One of my absolute most favorite straps in existence. It's the strap that I can't seem to take off of the Seiko SPB 143. But I've been wearing this thing around and man, is it a lot of fun. For me, it counts as a big watch, not so much in width, but in all of its other dimensions. It has a real chunky, classic sort of big sports watch feel to it. And I really love the two-tone as soon as it's not on the bracelet. a different strap really pads the like retirement guy feeling of the two tone. Right. If you know what, if you know what I mean, like two tone, I kind of go back and forth on sometimes you see it and it's perfect. |
| Unknown | Yeah. |
| James Stacey | And you're like, Oh, I get that. Or you see it on the right retirement guy. And you're like, man, that looks good. Like that guy gets it. And then you were like, yeah, but it doesn't look silly on me. Yeah. Whereas I think, I think, I think we're saying, I'll say, I think I don't think that this looks silly on me. |
| Jason Heaton | The photo you posted on Instagram looks great. |
| James Stacey | I mean... Yeah, super fun, tons of texture, great loom. The extensive amount of black that they used to pad the kind of transition between steel and gold is, I think, what makes this work. And then, of course, the John Player special vibes don't hurt at all. But I think... Man, it's funny, because I think this would be in my top three from the brand right now. I think it's so fun. Geez. and i'm not a not a two-tone guy that as soon as you put it on the bracelet i become significantly less interested in it at an aesthetic level yeah it's also a lot of weight the 41 millimeter black bay case on a on a bracelet is a lot for someone who's used to wearing 40 millimeter watches on nato's all the time yeah but yeah i'm absolutely in love with it i'll miss it when it has to go and and if there's you know one of those things where I think it'll be on that list of watches mentally, where you're like, well, if I was offered a good enough deal, I'd pull the trigger. I would definitely pull the trigger on this. I think it's so much fun. Might even be the kind of thing that would talk me into a bund, just because I think it would probably look pretty darn cool, maybe with a jean jacket. Oh, totally. Totally. I mean, jeez. Yeah, I think it'd be kind of fun. Yeah, for sure. But that's my risk check. A fun watch, and A big thank you for Tudor for having one available to send my way for a look. And yeah, it's been great. We actually got a bunch of watches in just a couple of minutes before the show, which I'm excited about. But that'll be for a later episode, some new, pretty crazy, interesting sort of sports watches. Very cool. Yeah. |
| Unknown | Yeah. |
| James Stacey | Nice. All right. So what do you say we get into today's main topic, which is something that I'll let you introduce. Uh, but it, you know, I'm, I'm, I've, I'm through editing what you're about to hear and I'm, I'm pretty thrilled with it. So I'm, I'm excited for this. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. Yeah, I am too. And I, I hope people really enjoy this one because, uh, you know, Lauren Ballesta, who's the subject of today's interview from, from a few weeks back, uh, he goes under the radar with a lot of people, but I think if you know of his work, you know, how spectacular it is. Um, in my opinion, he's, He's not only one of the most exciting ocean explorers around, but I think he might be the best underwater photographer that's working today. Um, and I think the fact that he's French and he has kind of a flair for, uh, history and, and kind of the history of French diving exploration, I think doesn't hurt. You know, he doesn't have the Cousteau name, but as he, as you'll hear in the interview, uh, he was inspired by Cousteau as a child. And I think he's kind of followed in that rich tradition. He's, He's got a small team of divers that he works with regularly, and they travel all over and do these just insanely ambitious expeditions. And they always wear red dive suits from Aqualung and Blancpain watches. Blancpain is his major sponsor, which is really cool. And then they make these extraordinary films about each of their expeditions. And they're not really flashy topics. There are guys out there that are diving with great white sharks or, you know, descending to the bottom of challenger deep. Um, but his stuff is a little more subtle, but it's also really ambitious and highly technical. He's got a marine biology background. And, um, you know, one of his earliest expeditions was actually to dive to, it was over 400 feet off the South African coast. And, you know, he did this with his team on rebreathers and they were filming and photographing this living fossil fish known as the coelacanth in its native habitat. And, uh, the coelacanth is, is a strange creature that had been caught by fishermen, but no one had ever photographed it or filmed it in its native habitat because it's so deep and in this very remote part of the world. And, um, and then he followed that up with an incredible expedition to Antarctica. And then more recently he was in French Polynesia, diving in this atoll there where every year, like on one day, there's this incredibly big grouper spawning that brings a huge aggregation of reef sharks that are feeding. And if you just Google Laurent Ballesta sharks, or look it up on YouTube or something, some of the footage is just stunning, incredible. And I've got a book that he produced out of that, and it's just spectacular. And then just most recently, just this past year, he and his team went to the deep Mediterranean for a month, and they were using rebreathers, but they were living in a dive habitat. and diving out of a diving bell every day for a month to, to photograph and kind of research the seafloor of the Mediterranean. And, you know, this is not easy stuff. This is not made for TV stuff, but, um, it's, I just, I love the, his passion and his kind of flair for, um, uh, you know, just, just really pushing, pushing boundaries. And, uh, and so it's a great talk. He's, um, He, you know, confesses right at the beginning. Uh, his, his English isn't, uh, he isn't as comfortable in English as he is in French, obviously, just as I'm not very comfortable in French. Um, so, uh, but I think the interview came off really well and, uh, uh, you know, you'll hear the passion come out. He's, he's, he's a pretty introverted, serious guy, but boy, when he gets on the topic of diving and photography and some of his ambitions, you can really feel it coming through. So, um, it's a fairly long interview. I hope you enjoy it. And, uh, Yeah, here we go with Laurent Balesta. Welcome, Laurent Balesta, to the GrayNATO podcast. Thanks for joining us. Thank you. You're welcome. Last we met was on a boat down in the Riviera Jijedo island chain off of Mexico and obviously a very different time and a different world for both of us. |
| Laurent Ballesta | Yeah, that was a great experience last time in Mexico. Yeah, but it was a in the world before. |
| Jason Heaton | Exactly. And you've been very busy since. And I want to, in a little bit, start talking about Gombessa 5, your Mediterranean adventure. But before we do that, for the sake of our listeners, I thought maybe we could start with a little bit of your background. You are a marine biologist by training and also a very accomplished underwater photographer. I'm curious how you got your start. How did that all start? |
| Laurent Ballesta | I would say that first I started to dive, of course, when I was a kid, a little bit by myself, because in my time there is no diving school for kids. You had to wait to be an old teenager to be allowed to start. So I was quite impatient, but, I dove, I mean, I make free dives and snorkel since I can remember. Yeah. And a bit alone because my parents were not diverse or not even, they didn't know how to swim actually. But they really love, not the sea, they love the beach, you know. They went at beach all the time, all the time, just, you know, taking sun. And it can be so boring for kids to be on this kind of sandy beach, you know, no rock anywhere. And you're alone in the sand and after to have made a few holes in the sand, what you can do. And you need to play, to imagine. And there is a very good source of imagination was the Jacques Cousteau films and documentaries. So I played Cousteau with my brother and as my parent was not divers and a bit scared about sea, everything was forbidden. Don't go in the water just after lunch. Don't go in the water where you cannot stand. Don't go in the water because there is jellyfish, because there is uh spine on the feces or you know all this kind of fake they are they had in their mind of people who don't know yeah and and but for my brother and myself that was so forbidden that it was a kind of challenge and and maybe without the the film of cousteau it would have been a forbidden world and that's it yeah But it was so attractive because of what I was watching at the TV. And at the same time, it was forbidden to go. So that was pure adventure for my brother and I to go in the water, even if it was just 50 centimeters depth. Even if it was just to look after crabs or little fish, but everything looked for us so dangerous. forbidden. So we live great adventure. And, and trust me, I mean, this kind of adventure I had as a kid, give me the same feeling as the adventure now. Yeah, of course, he has to be deeper and sometimes more challenging, of course, and all the same. But I think that my, my pleasure to To go underwater, as I do, was a technique challenge, was the idea to go in pristine places, virgin places, where nobody dove before. That really came from this old time, where it was something out of the rules. |
| Jason Heaton | Oh sure, yeah. It seems like there's a very strong tradition of both seafaring, you know, sailing and water sports and diving in France. I mean, you have obviously Cousteau, Jacques Mayol, you know, yourself. I mean, there's such a strong tradition of diving and diving innovation. |
| Laurent Ballesta | Yeah, you're right. Jacques-Yves Cousteau was maybe the pioneer, one of the very first. But recently, I discovered on, I mean, recently, it was a few years ago, but during a conference trip in California, from Santa Barbara to Los Angeles, I discovered that there is an old diving history in US too, in this place. Because of gas research and offshore platform, offshore rigs for oils and that has a lot of divers who are able to go very deep. But I discovered that there was a big diving history in California too. But I think really that there is, yeah, diving history start in France just before the Second World War. Yeah. And very fast, big history start also in California as well. And during decades and decades, there is a big commercial fight for deep divers from France and from California. Huh. Interesting. |
| Jason Heaton | Um, and then this passion for the sea obviously led you to obvious, I assume in university you studied marine biology. |
| Laurent Ballesta | Yeah. It looks to me obvious because it could have been archeology, or why not just art or this kind of... But if you remember the Jacques-Yves Cousteau movies, the character in the film who was the most prestigious was the marine biologist able to explain everything, even to the commandant Cousteau himself. So it looks to me obvious that the main character, the most prestigious place or job to be was marine biologist. So I make scientific studies from very young, but I think that my, I don't know in English, my deep nature was more artistic than scientific. But anyway, uh, I, I study a little bit against my nature science, uh, until to be a, I don't know, to say PhD or something like that. I'm not sure in English. But I spent my time on site to continue to produce photography and text and, you know, the most artistic stuff. And I was very lucky to be able to link to link both approaches, the artistic one and the scientific one. And I think that's really the identity of Gombeza Expedition. There is a very serious scientific aim, but there is also a very serious artistic ambition to tell the story. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah, I was going to ask about that. In preparation for our interview, my wife and I watched three of your Gombeza films, the Coelacanth, the Antarctica film, and the Fakarava shark film. And I was really struck by the combination of really deep science, you know, tagging and photographing the Coelacanth for the biologists and doing the stitched photography of an iceberg. And it struck me how there's this mix of art, artistry and science. And I think that's what separates, that's what sets your work aside, apart from other, um, underwater photographers, I think. Do you, do you shoot for fun? I mean, do you, do you like to photograph, do you carry a camera when you walk around on land or when you take vacations? |
| Laurent Ballesta | Not really, not really. Uh, my wife tell me that I should make more picture of, of, uh, Daughter? For me, underwater still photography is something necessary. And of course I'm talking about what I do. You cannot stay underwater. You can't just go and come back. You cannot stay, you cannot leave underwater. And everything underwater is so fast. And even in the clearest water in the world, there is fog everywhere. I mean, the clearest water, it's 40 meters, 50 meters, maybe 100 meters. What is 100 meters of visibility on land? |
| Unknown | Yeah. |
| Laurent Ballesta | It looks to me that still photography is something so necessary underwater because of that. You cannot see, you cannot watch for long. So you really need, you must have still photography just to push longer the observation, the contemplation, the pleasure. You really need that. And now with the very modern camera, they are more sensitive than your own eyes. So sometimes when I make deep dives and where it's very dark, It's easier for me to watch, to understand the ecosystem, the landscape around with my camera than just with my eyes. So, yeah, that's why I think I make underwater photos, because I cannot stay, I cannot see very well. And the part of science and of artistic is, I would say that every big expedition I lead start was a scientific mystery first. What the silacant is pure mystery himself or of the or the deep ecosystem of Antarctica, how it's possible to have such a biodiversity in such deep and cold waters, and the 700 shark, how it's possible that so primitive animals work together at night and how the the little fish are able to escape. So there is every time a scientific mystery. |
| Unknown | Yeah. |
| Laurent Ballesta | If this scientific mystery still exists, it's mean that there is a diving problem, you know, to, if not, if there, if there wasn't diving issue, the, the, the, the mystery would have been solved for, for long already. So it has So it's interesting and totally lean that first there is the scientific mystery who naturally call a diving challenge to try to solve the mystery. And of course, because maybe of my artistic ambition, I want to add a third character, a third value is new wildlife images. So new behavior or new species, or something that you didn't see before in wildlife images. And underwater, it's not so difficult. And, and, and I considered, so the first point is the scientific mystery who open possibility of, of diving challenge of new wildlife images of everything. I'm not, in, in, in patient to go where everybody went just because it's beautiful and try to do something different just because I would be a better photographer or better video. It looks to me so pretentious and it's so easier to make something new where nobody went before. You know, for example, in Antarctica, the difficult thing, was to go down, was to go, you know, it was, there is all the difficulties together, deep, cold, and with a roof. I mean, with the ice above your head. So that's the, everything was difficult. And that's really the worst dive ever. And there is current. And because it was the most difficult dive we ever done, my team and I, it was, The easiest photo. Huh. You know what I mean? Of course, nobody was there, were there before us. So you just have to click. Right. And everything you have, and if you are honest, and if you're honest with your subject, if you don't want to do something too much personal, you're going to have incredible images. Easy to read and completely new. That's the best images. for me, easy to read and new. And that's very difficult to, to, to have both character new and easy to read. And I don't know, for example, tomorrow morning you wake up and you say, okay, I'm going to make a book, a photo book about the liberties statue in the freedom statue in New York city. You have to be a good photographer because you may be, there is 1 million photographer before you try to make something nice. But when you go to visit the Silicon, you're the first. Right. It's so easy. So the difficult thing is to reach the universe, to make the dive. And then it's easy to make new wildlife images. That's my way to work, actually. |
| James Stacey | Hey everyone, James here. We're actually just going to take a quick break from Jason's chat with Laurent so that we can talk a little bit about TGN's latest sponsor, G-Shock and their modern do-it-all tool watch line called Master of G. While this line is comprised of several models, including my much-loved Rangeman, the core of the Master of G is G-Shark's goal of creating tough, high-tech, ultra-capable watches for the theaters of land, sea, and air. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah, that's right. And for land, we have the altimeter, barometer, and compass-equipped and fitness-tracking Mudman. And for sea, the brand-new DiveTime and TideReady Frogman, which for the first time is offered with an analog display. And then for air, we've got the GravityMaster and its app-connected mission log and GPS waypoint tracking. |
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| Jason Heaton | To get a better idea of all that these watches can do, James and I will be testing the Gravity Master, the Frogman, and the Mudmaster as everyday tool watches over the coming weeks. So be sure to stay tuned for future episodes of TGN, supported by G-Shock's Master of G watches, and to learn about how these incredible modern sports watches handle our day-to-day, and maybe a few special adventures along the way. |
| James Stacey | For more information, visit bit.ly slash Master of G to learn more about the Gravity Master, the Frogman, and the Mudmaster, And of course, a huge thank you from Jason and I to the folks at G-Shock for supporting the Graynado and making episodes like this one possible. Now, back to the show. |
| Jason Heaton | You know, to achieve what you do, I'm also struck by your use of technology. I remember you told me a story about you had a camera housing implode from, from taking it too deep. Or, um, I think there was another story about you were decompressing as you were drifting in towards shore in South Africa and it started to get shallower and shallower. Um, you know, you're facing challenges that, uh, most divers and underwater photographers don't face. Um, and that has forced you to use new equipment and create your own equipment, such as the, the arc of cameras that you shot in Fakarava, for instance, or your use of closed circuit rebreathers, for instance. When did you, how do you develop those ideas for, for using new technology? |
| Laurent Ballesta | The same answer. It starts with the scientific mystery. There is a scientific mystery, how to solve it. We need new diving techniques, new diving equipment, because with the traditional one, we cannot, we can't solve the problem. So how to do? I need, I don't know, to go deeper. How to go deeper? Electronic re-breather, helium, all these things. Okay, first solution. Then I need to go deep and long. Ah, that's a big problem. It means a very long deco. How am I able to stay six hours decompression? How to do that? We develop techniques how to be in a more comfortable position. to have something to read during the deco with tablets or this kind. It's sometimes it's little trick, little equipment, but that change everything. Something is just a little, something so ridiculous, but all this little ridiculous point make the difference. And then we want to go deep and long and under the ice. Okay. How to do? So we develop electric eaters inside our, our dry suit. I mean, special one because the, the, the electric eaters of a label on market are not powerful enough. And the one we use was so powerful that we were burned. But it was necessary. If not, you're completely frozen. And, and, and every time the, it starts with the scientific mystery, how to find a solution and not to push my team and I in danger. Yeah. So the idea is not to say, okay, we're going to do what the other. How do you say the other didn't dare to face? Yeah. Because we are not afraid to die. No, no, no, no, no. I want to keep the same safety than the other. But go further, go more far. I mean, And so that's mean to think about that a lot with my team. Sometime I arrive in the meeting we did every month, every two months with my guy and say, okay, one of the next challenge could be to see the, for example, I don't know when I start to talk about the 24 hours, say, okay, there is this grouper aggregation. They aggregate every few days, but we still don't know when they mate all together. It could be very short. So I need to stay 24 hours at 30 meter deep. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. |
| Laurent Ballesta | Incredible. So now work on that. We have to work. And sometimes the frustration is no, no, no, it's not possible. It's too dangerous. And then we think, we think we'll find solution. We test something. But the idea is not to just, you know, to cross the border. No, the idea is to push the border to keep the same safety. And that's the most challenging because it, it will be easy to go deeper, to stay longer, to just, if you're not afraid to die, you know, a lot of people make record like that. I'm not afraid to die. Congratulations, but you don't help the activity because what you do, You cannot recommend to do it to other. |
| Unknown | Yeah. |
| Laurent Ballesta | If we are very proud, my team and I, is that when we did something, then it's like giving the key for maybe not normal diver, but just well-trained divers to do the same. Just because we find the, we figure out the solution, the technical solution. And that's what something that we are very proud. It's not the record of someone who would be like a superhero with, you know, like a Mike Horn or like a very deep freediver. Sure. A man who is the only one able to do what he do. It looks to me very important. And I'm pretty sure that if I get money from private sponsor, but also from public money from the French government. It's because we develop techniques that could be used by other after. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah, I think that's an interesting point. I was, you know, through all of your films, I've noticed you tend to use the same team and everybody seems to come through it just fine. You don't have these dramatic moments in the movie where Yannick has gotten the bends or anything like this. I mean, everybody's coming out after these very long, very difficult dives. |
| Laurent Ballesta | Very healthy. Yeah. Of course, accident could happen, but we really try to, to, to think about all the danger and find solution for all of them. But of course the, the safest is to stay home. |
| Unknown | Yeah. |
| Jason Heaton | Right. Right. I want to talk briefly about your, your camera gear. I know you're a long time Nikon user or Nikon. I don't know how you, pronounced. You've used a D4. Are you using a D5 now? Or have you gone to a mirrorless? You're not a mirrorless camera user yet. You don't use the Z7? |
| Laurent Ballesta | No, not yet. But yes, I start with the Nikon Z7. But I'm not very, the results are very good. But when I am in a hurry with a subject, all my automatic movement are with my camera. So sometime, yeah, when I start to be very excited by a situation and that I know that I have not a lot of time, I prefer to stay with my D5 and D6 coming soon. |
| Jason Heaton | And, uh, you had mentioned that you're, you also use some of the old Nikonos RS lenses, uh, on that camera. |
| Laurent Ballesta | Yes. That's happened less and less, but I'm still, yeah, less and less. Yes. There is this special, uh, lenses who have been made at this time only for underwater condition. Yeah. And, but not, we cannot use, but there is some, uh, housing builder, like a Sikam in Australia. who can, you send him your Nikon RS lens, 13 millimeter, for example, and they change it as a lens for you D5 or D4 or no matter. And then you can use it. That's very interesting. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. I'm curious on these very long dives, you have to choose, um, a lens to take along for the entire dive. Um, I'm not going to take, do you take two cameras or like I see sometimes you're using a micro. Oh really? You're not carrying them. You have your team members carrying. No. |
| Laurent Ballesta | So very often I have at least one guy with me who can carry one, two, three cameras and me, I have two. |
| Unknown | Okay. |
| Laurent Ballesta | But sometime when I dive alone and for very long dive, yeah. I take all the camera and I just let them at the bottom. And when I need, I come back to take it. |
| Unknown | Okay. |
| Laurent Ballesta | Yeah. But that's possible only in certain condition. You have to be a flat bottom, not too deep, or I mean, deep or not deep, no matter. But if you have a lot of time, if you don't have a lot of time, I already experienced that, you know, at the last moment, you're not able to decide. So you take two or three camera anyway. yeah and you go for 20 minutes at 120 meters or even more with three cameras that's completely stupid yeah you have 20 minutes only the time to change one camera from the other you lose a few minutes and so sometime i realized that i spend more time to look for my camera that i lost in the bottom and yeah so now when i dive for short dive very deep I try to convince myself to choose one camera. Or if there is someone with me, I take just two, one each, and I can change very fast. Sure. The first quality of a still photographer is patience. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's patience. But that means nothing for underwater, for deep divers. Right. You don't have time. You don't have time. You know, it's like, I think there is a, you know, there is this very cheese champions who play cheese for days and days, the same game for days and days. They take time to think about every movement they're going to do. That's a way to play. And that's the masters. But there is another way in the street. where there is the watch on side and they have to play very fast. And the masters are not good at this kind of cheese. And I think for underwater photo, deep underwater photo is a bit the same. I'm pretty sure that a lot of underwater photographers are much better than me. more IDs. Technically they are very sharper, sharper. And, but if suddenly you tell them, okay, now you have just 15 minutes at 200 meters to make your job. Yeah. That's completely different. Yeah. That's completely different. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. The, the, the photos that are incredible to me are the, the shark photos from Fakarava because you shot them, you shot them at night, you shot them at night and they're incredibly clear. The resolution is amazing. And is that, is that partially because you have, you dive with somebody who's carrying that huge bank of lights. That must really help, right? To have all of those lights. |
| Laurent Ballesta | Yeah. But the, the, the, the very first secret would say this is just also a question of time. We did 3,000 hours, same dives. The same dive, the same place, every night, several times a night, and during five years. So it's more than 3,000 hours. So that's the first answer on how we were able to make these photos. And of course, the second was to find a solution to light the night in a good way. The idea is not to change the night in day. That would be stupid. And in the same time, if I just let this black background, it's not night as well. And the water night is like on land. There is tiny, tiny lights around the moonlight, the light of the stars. And I wanted to create this kind of little, very dark blue light in the background. And that means to use not a very powerful strobe light, not a powerful one, but a very wide one. So the solution was to I didn't, my camera was without strobe light, the one I carry, but there is a wire, a 10 meter wire linked to another diver with seven strobe lights in the lowest position, but able to light a very large place. he asked during the first year when we discovered the place because when I went in Fakarava the first time in 2014 it was not for the shark nobody knew about the shark at night nobody even if the place is known French Polynesia is very touristic place but nobody made night dive at this time and I went there only for the grouper aggregation then I decided to make this 20 Well, before to go, we decided to make this 24 hour dive. So when we arrived before to start this 24 hour dive, I say maybe we should check the night to see if and and so we went by night just to check. For me, the full night would be just you know, some nudie branch, some shell, some little stuff like that. And my question was, I hope it is I'm scared it's going to be boring 12 hours of night. Imagine how I was wrong when I discovered this big mess in the water with all these sharks. So the first year we were completely scared by what was happening and unable to make the... You know the book I did, 700 Sharks into the Night? |
| Unknown | Yeah. |
| Laurent Ballesta | The book I did, there is 200 still photographs. |
| Unknown | Yeah. |
| Laurent Ballesta | From the first year, there were two photos. I wasn't able. I didn't know how to do it. It was too fast, too dark, too scary. I didn't know. So, during the year before the second time, we tried a lot of things, how to do, how maybe with a kind of strobe light, ramp, So it means that we have to learn how to swim together, because there is this 10-meter wire in the current. Oh, sure. Yeah, and the shark bites. The only thing the shark was biting was the strobe light and the wire. Never the body. So they cut, I think, three times the wire. Oh, jeez. Yeah. But starting the second year, we start to have very good results. But from the first year, nothing. We were just astonished. We were, you know, you cannot move. You see this thing, you, of course, you're a bit scary and you're just fascinated. And after three hours dive or something, or even after the 24 hour dive, they say, show me your picture. I say, no, I have nothing interesting. It's out of focus. It's too dark or too white. Yeah. So. You know, the secret is that there is no secret. We try and try again and do it again and again and again. |
| Jason Heaton | So, this leads to your latest project, which was amazing. I remember when you told me about this idea. Just before. I'll give a little bit of background for our listeners. This is your latest expedition, Gombeza 5. In a nutshell, you were diving deep in the Mediterranean Sea, living with your team in an underwater Or not an underwater habitat, but you were living inside of a pressurized chamber for a month, was it? Close to a month. 28 days. 28 days. And then diving out of a diving bell with rebreathers. Incredible. I mean, the logistics and the cost and everything about it was very complex. It seemed to be a success. I watched some of your video diaries. |
| Laurent Ballesta | Yeah, the film is coming soon. Very soon. Yeah. |
| Jason Heaton | Tell me about it. I mean, how did it go? Was it what you hoped it would be? |
| Laurent Ballesta | Oh, it was much harder than I thought. |
| Unknown | Yeah. |
| Laurent Ballesta | Very harder. And that made me a bit depressed at the beginning. Yeah. Because, you know, I had this idea, you know, this idea came from a frustration. The frustration of A guy who loves deep dive, but who can stay only 20 minutes, 30 minutes, very deep, and then have five, six hours of ascent for decompression. |
| Unknown | Yeah. |
| Laurent Ballesta | And so from a very long time, I say, how to do, how? And of course, I had this idea 18, now it's 20 years ago to say, okay, we should still the, still the the, the technique of commercial diver on, on oil rig who are, who use saturation system, who, and you know, if the problem is the ascent, the solution is no ascent anymore. Sure. Yeah. That's so obvious. Um, and, uh, but the, the, the ideas of course, to you, you lie to your body, body think that is all the time, uh, at the bottom. But in reality, you're up and down, but still with the same pressure around you. So for the, for your physiology, for your body is the same, the same day for one month. So there is no more question to say, Oh my God, four minutes more. Now it's one hour. They come on. No, you don't care. You don't care. So that changed everything. But, and, but he asked me 20 years to, to make comb this technique to what the commercial diver called recreational diver. That's a bit insulting. Yeah. They call us recreational divers anyway. And, but at least we are free diver. I mean, without umbilical, I'm going to use your technique, but once I will be out of the bell, I want to be without link to you. It means I'm going to use my electronic rebreather. When you say something like that to a hold and professional commercial diver, he just wants to put you in jail. For you, you're completely crazy and stupid and you want to die, blah, blah, blah. But we start with the French Institute of Commercial Divers, the last school in the world to teach saturation dive except maybe one school in U.S. But this school in U.S., there is a lot of protectionism and it's only for U.S. citizens. So you don't know nothing about this school. But the French school is for all the countries. And now it's the last one. In the past, there was one in Oba, Tasmania, one in South Africa, one in England, in Scotland. But now there is no more. only the one in France. And it's quite old and with very old equipment, but it's still working. So I went to see them and start to talk. And of course, at the beginning, that was not obvious for them to try, but we find solution as I do with my team. Actually, I was so trained with my team for years to find solution. When there is someone at the bottom, at the top of the table and say, no, stupid idea, impossible, impossible. And say, no, no, sorry, let me explain you. Maybe we could start and try this thing. And maybe if it doesn't work, we can remember. And I start the same thing with them and step by step, try after try, we find all the solutions. And we did a first try in October 2018. We spent just five or six hours out of the bell at 65 meters. So it was just to test. And then we come back to the station and we had 48 hours of decompression. And when we went out after nearly a little bit more than two days, we were so excited, so enthusiastic. So then I worked a lot to find the money for a full month because every day you had, it's more expensive. And I was lucky enough to find money for a full month. And so that's what we did. And the thing is that we were so excited by the possibilities offered was such technique that we forgot how hard it will be to live in a little chamber like that during one month. And we put on side we didn't think about everything about the call everything told us and we knew that breathing helium very deep, make your body completely frozen. And commercial that commercial diver on our rig They don't have this problem because with the umbilical came hot waters. So even if they are very deep in cold water, they work in kind of little atmosphere of tropical waters. That's true. It can be 27 degrees. Yeah, exactly. Sometimes it's too warm because they walk, you know? Yeah. And so we knew that it would be a problem. But we think, hey, guy, we did five hours dive in Antarctica two years ago, three years ago. So we are able to sustain it. We can. We already did it. But that was completely different kind of cold. I don't know if the expression exists in English. In France, we say that to talk about cold, we say The cold bites you, you know, bite your hands, bite your feet. And so really the cold bites you. The cold with helium is not something that bites you. It's a kind of poison. It's not a bite. It's a poison. It's inside you. Yeah, exactly. It's completely inside. You can put all the dry suit you have with electric heater on your skin. No, everything is inside your lungs, inside you. It's like chilling your blood. Yeah, exactly. And that's very weird because for example, the water temperature in deep Mediterranean Sea is 14 degrees Celsius. Okay. Yeah. It's not so cold. It's not so cold. Yeah. It's very far from the minus two degrees of Antarctica. |
| Unknown | Yeah. |
| Laurent Ballesta | So far. And we were colder. in deep Mediterranean sea time in Antarctica. That's amazing. And that just because of the fact we, we, we were breathing, uh, 97% of helium and that's make your body so cold, so fast. |
| Jason Heaton | How long were each of your dives? How many hours would you be in the water? |
| Laurent Ballesta | Three to four hours, three to four hours, but twice a day. |
| Jason Heaton | Oh, so they would pull you up to the chamber on the bar. |
| Laurent Ballesta | Yeah, yeah, yeah. Of course, because you have no decompression issue. You don't, you don't care about your equipment. You cannot, your equipment, even your rebreather, everything is outside the bell. The only thing you have inside the station is your dry suit and your mask. Even your fins, even your fins are outside waiting for you. So, so you don't have nothing to do except eat and rest. So the thing is, as soon as you are ready, and we have rest a little bit, we can go again. So he asked a lot of time to my team in Surface to be very good, to be efficient. I mean, at the beginning, it was so new. So sometimes we lost a lot of time. But day after day, they were better and better, faster and faster. And at the end we were able to make two dives and each one, three, four hours outside. After that you sleep like a baby. |
| Jason Heaton | Would you say that it was worth the pain? Did you get what you wanted? Was it a satisfying expedition? |
| Laurent Ballesta | Yeah, of course. At the beginning, Yeah, for example, the very first dive. Yeah. During the first dive, we understand everything. The worst and the better. For example, when the bell reached the bottom the first day, it was the first of July, the open just opened and suddenly we went out. First time we put our rebreather. We immediately felt the cold. I said, wow, it's going to be hard. It was already one hour in the water. Well, and the water was not clear this day. Even after we were, we had the clearest water I ever seen, but the first day it was not clear. So, you know, you spend 20 years to say, I'm going to cut the umbilical of the commercial diver. And when you're ready to do it, you don't want to go. far because you're completely scared to miss the bell. So I thought the water was not clear. Even if we have a lot of electric system to find our bell in case we are lost, we didn't want to test it immediately. So I was not really able to go far. Every time I turn and the bell was just 10, 20 meters from me, never more. But suddenly I see A huge squid, like one meter long, mating. Mating just in front of us for hours. We spent the first day, we stayed three hours, and during three hours, seven big squid came, changed color, mate, and immediately after the mating, the female went in kind of little cave and put his eggs. Three hours filming that. Three hours. |
| Unknown | Yeah. |
| Laurent Ballesta | You couldn't do that if you were... First dive. You couldn't do that if you were decompressing. And it's a very rare species. I saw this species only once in 20 years. And the second time was during the saturation. And I didn't just see them. I see them making the most important behavior of their life. is mating because they made only one in their life, they mate and they die. Yeah, well, and we were here, we were so lucky. We went back to the to the station and how because it was the first dive, we really felt this day, the descent and the pressure because after you are the same pressure, you don't have to equalize your your ears anymore during 28 days. But the first day you really feel the pressure and so the eating of the pressure so we were so hot inside the station but hot as you cannot imagine it was like a kind of feeling of 50 degrees it was completely out of breeze and suddenly we were in the cold water so like antarctica feeling yeah so after this first day we we understood everything it's going to be amazing and it's going to be hard The same day we had the kind of sum up of all the feeling we will cross during a wonderful month. And then the day after day some dive was nearly every day. I went back to the station with something new in my camera nearly every day. And imagine I was not in Papua. I was not in Antarctica. I was in the French Riviera between Marseille and Monaco. It's so Wow. I mean, it's common, it's the place where dive start in the 50s. Right. There is no place with more document from, there is people who describe Mediterranean Sea 4,000 years ago. |
| Jason Heaton | Sure, yeah. |
| Laurent Ballesta | And we were able every single day to came back to the station with something new, a fish never photographed before. a behavior, a new behavior every day. And we were just home actually. Yeah. So that was the, the, uh, a wonderful daily award. |
| Jason Heaton | Now, is this a model, uh, of expedition that you will repeat? Will you plan to do the same technique other places? |
| Laurent Ballesta | Definitely, definitely. And, and, and, and the one I would like, so the, the, the most, uh, uh, in, in, What is going to happen is we're going to continue in Mediterranean Sea because it's easy. We have the people, the logistics and the station. And it could happen, it should have been this year, but because of the COVID, I was not able to organize. But I hope next year to do something in Corsica Island, where for me, it's the most beautiful, deep reef of Mediterranean Sea. So maybe next year. And, uh, and, and, but of course my very, my growl, I mean, the one I really would like, it's quite obvious is to go back to the silicone with saturation. |
| Jason Heaton | Oh yeah. That would be great. |
| Laurent Ballesta | That's will be more than great. After that I can stop. But it's going to be very hard to, to figure out something like that with South African people. It's like starting again 20 years ago. I mean, I have to talk with them, you know, the language barrier, South Africans are very strict on the rules. And so it's not easy to find a way, but for sure, I'm going to try. And as soon as we can travel again, I will send a few guys of my team in South Africa to start to introduce ourselves. Because there is at least one company able to provide us a station. |
| Unknown | We'll see. |
| Jason Heaton | Well, we've talked a long time, but I don't want to let you go until we briefly touch on your relationship with Blancpain, the watch company. They've been a big supporter of yours and you've obviously done a lot for them as well. Um, I love watching the films and seeing all the watches and the, the wetsuits with the branding and this sort of thing. It's, it's really great. How did that all start? You've been with, with them for quite a few years now. |
| Laurent Ballesta | Well, when I, when I did the first dye was the silacant, it was in 2009 and 2010, but it was something just between friends. I just proved that it was possible. And, and I wanted, uh, I wanted to make something bigger, a big expedition with science, with images, with everything. I need a sponsor. I tried to contact Blanpin. I knew nobody in the watches industry, so I didn't know how to be introduced to him. He asked me two years to get the appointment. And you can trust me, I push them. But you know, the strategy, if you push them too much, they blacklist you and that's the end. So every month, I find a way to remind me to them. And finally, I had one appointment after two years trying during the the watch the ball watch show you know the watch show in ball in switzerland yeah every important event that i didn't know before that yeah and and and i didn't know that the most important during this watch show is to sell watches so it's not time to spend money it's time to to get money yeah and so i didn't know about that and when i arrived in I had a first meeting with the marketing director. I said, well, why not? Yeah, no, I don't know. But stay, if you can stay, the CEO will be there tonight. I'm sure it will be happy to say hello to you. Okay, hello, but I'm not waiting for hello. Anyway, I stay, I stay until the night. And so I came back to the, to the show and And someone came to me and said, okay, I'm going to introduce you, but five minutes maximum, five minutes, no one minute more, five minutes to explain such project. So I was, you know, I trained myself the full day, my sentences, what I'm going to say and blah, blah, blah, to be sharp, to be efficient. But I didn't have the, it was unnecessary. Because when I see Mark, he said, oh, no, no, we're going to go in a very calm room. Take our time. |
| Unknown | Yeah. |
| Laurent Ballesta | Okay. Me, I was watching my watch already two minutes to find the place. You know, only three minutes left. Oh my God. And I opened my laptop and I start with my best photos of the Silicon. And he didn't let me talk. He asked me, oh, which camera are you using? Oh, wow. Which camera? You really want to know which camera? Nikon, but you know the most. And which kind of housing? Sea cam. Me also, I have a sea cam, but I'm with Canon and blah, blah, blah. And we talk diving. We talk diving, we talk wildlife, blah, blah, blah. And it was quite hard to introduce my project, the aim, the scientific part, and the mediatic possibility for them and all these things. No, it was just interest by the fish, the silicans, by my diving techniques, how I do, by my camera controls. How do you do this kind of photo? Because I can't myself. That was amazing. And it was not five minutes. It was one hour and a half. We stayed together to talk. |
| Jason Heaton | Wow. Wow. Well, Mark Hayek is a, such a passionate diver and he's, it's such a marriage. It was, it's a perfect marriage. |
| Laurent Ballesta | It's, it's not, it's not, you know, a kind of attitude to say the CEO like skiing because they sell ski or no, no, you really love diving. Every time he has vacation or free time, he go to the heaven in the lake in Switzerland. When he cannot be back in, in some wonderful place, he go to dive in the lake. So I really enjoyed that. And a few days after that, one guy of Blancpain called me and said, okay, I'm in charge to work with you for your expedition, to make a contract, call your lower, of course. Imagine how I have so many lowers around me. And that started like that. Then, after the Silicon, the next appointment for the next expedition, that was five minutes. Oh yeah. And then it was just every year we met in a restaurant, tell me about the last expedition. I see the movie, but most of the time he tried to reach us and share a little bit of our dive, except when it's not possible, like the saturation or like Antarctica. But most of the time he reaches and share some, some of the dive. But every time he wants some secret of the expedition. So I tell all the story. And very soon he says, okay, what's next? What's the next? Okay, my next idea is like that, like that. Maybe not this year, I won't be ready. I try to be ready, try to be ready. And they never push me in their communication direction. You see? They never told me, oh, it will be nice if you do something with the great white shark, because it's very popular or something in the Caribbean, in the Florida Keys, because there is a lot of potential buyers. No, no. They just want something authentic, something that I really want to do. And then they find the solution to communicate. They never asked me to make photos of my of my face, to wear a watch for advertisement. No, they use my material, my photos, my film, and they make events on site. So that makes me so free, so free of my project. And for that, I must thank them so much, not only for the money they give me, but also for the freedom. |
| Jason Heaton | Well, I think it's a, it's a wonderful relationship. And I also think that you give them not only the images, but I, you know, when I watch the films, you, you're wearing all the watches. I mean, you put them to the ultimate test. These aren't, these aren't 20 meter dives. These are, you know, a hundred meter dives wearing a 500 fathoms or X fathoms or one of their watches. And no doubt these watches are getting very beat up during the process and there seem to be surviving. So. Um, it's, it's a great relationship, not to mention Blancpain has such a great history with French diving. I mean, there was Malubierre at the beginning and of course, Cousteau. |
| Laurent Ballesta | Yeah. So I think they really want, maybe they really need as well, but they really want to be in, in a true, in the true diving history, not just to, to buy an image, to look, to be part of, but to really, so that's why they, First, they want to contribute to give money for serious project. Two ones. And then, of course, they spend another money to communicate on what they did. But you know, a lot of them, they just pay to communicate. That's it. And for the project himself, for expedition, it's just a few coins. No, they really want to do something authentic, something that even in 10 years, in 20 years, that you can still be proud. |
| Unknown | Yeah. |
| Laurent Ballesta | Yeah. You know? Yeah. Yeah. So I'm very lucky. And last year, there is a new marketing director, Andrea Caputo. And he asked me, he asked During the first meeting we had together, I didn't know him before. He said, okay, but do you have some needs concerning watches? That will be great if we can on site develop something very useful for you in our watches. And I didn't know what to answer. I was not prepared to this question. And in my head, I think, are you stupid? I don't need really a watch. Now I have computers, everything is on electronic and I love my watch because it's a masterpiece, because it can be my backup for time, but that's it. And with the X-Phantom, I can have also a backup with death matter. That's it. And so I didn't know what to say. And so this meeting, and I went back home and I was frustrated to not have been able to answer it. So I think a lot. And I had an idea. And so I didn't know that in the meantime, Marc Haillegre was not very happy because he said to Andrea Capitoli, hey, let Laurent, don't disturb Laurent. Laurent has to spend his brain to find new project of exploration, of dive and see. The watchmaker is us, okay? that stupid to ask him to, to let us is let his job, let us our job. And I didn't know about this discussion. I learned about very long time after. And, and I had an idea. It looks to be very good. I was not so sure. I share my idea with my partners in the famous meeting of, uh, that we did every month or so. And everybody on the table said, that's genius. But you should even put, how to say, to keep the ID for you, to buy the rights before to share the ID. I said, okay, we can trust Blumpen. No, no, no, it's too new. Anyway, I shared the ID. I asked Marc Hayek and Andrea Kaptur and all the team to make a kind of Skype meeting. with a video because I really, I make a lot of draws to explain my idea. Yeah. And Mark Hayek was fascinated. He said, that's just wonderful. That's a great idea. That's going to be a revolution in dive watch in a symbolic way, of course, but anyway, it's going to be blah, blah, blah. So I can't tell you more. I was afraid you would say that. Yeah. But ask them. Maybe they are already okay to talk about. Because the prototypes are more than ready. Because last year, during Gombeza 5, we used the first prototype. They just didn't want that I start to communicate. So during the Gombeza 5 movie, you will see the watch, but every time from far. So you cannot really see what is different inside. But there is something very simple and very different. And symbolically that's kind of revolution for dive watches. Wow. And so I'm very proud because it's, it's coming from me and Mark was very happy of that. So yeah, yeah. Yeah. The partnership between us and me, one day it will stop, but for the moment it's bigger and bigger every year. |
| Jason Heaton | Amazing. That's exciting. That's great. |
| Laurent Ballesta | Yeah. But don't hesitate to ask Andrea Caputo or Alexio about this famous watch. Let them talk more about what they want to tell, what they don't want. I don't know exactly. |
| Jason Heaton | Well, that's great. Look, I'm really grateful for your taking the time to talk to me today. You're welcome. I'm a huge fan. I think you're doing some of the most amazing work in your field. Thank you. It was a real pleasure to talk to you. So I'll, I'll let you get on with your evening over there and, um, just, uh, stay well. And I look forward to seeing what you're up to next. Thanks a lot. |
| Laurent Ballesta | Yeah. Thank you. You too. Be care. |
| Jason Heaton | Thanks, Laurent. |
| Laurent Ballesta | You're welcome. Bye bye. |
| James Stacey | All right. And we're back a huge thank you to Laurent for sitting down for such a long time and such kind of a candid interview with Jason. Uh, I had such a blast editing that, uh, you know, a few things that I would say that I would take away from him is He's so kind of chill about some of the data that he's throwing out there, but if you're talking about like a month at 60 meters, that's a month at the top of Everest. Yeah, right. It sounds simple and he's talking about how a lot of the way that they position the support that they get is that they're furthering the tech of diving. And I get that entirely, but also like Jason, if you were invited, How comfortable would you be today going down to 65 meters for a couple of days? Because for me, it would be tantamount to somebody being like, oh, hey, we're going to go climb in the Care Corum for a while. You want to come with? Yeah, right, right. I didn't work up to that. Yeah. Yeah. No. Give me five years. Yeah. Maybe. Right. Right. It's so it's fun. You know, again, maybe maybe a more layman or more straightforward to be somebody saying like, hey, there's a space on the shuttle. Mm-hmm. Do you want to come up to the International Space Station for a bit or or yeah, the oh, you know what one of the one of the f1 drivers, you know, he just he's got a stomach bug. You want to jump out of your Land Rover and into a 900 horsepower f1 car and try not to kill anyone on the track. Yeah, because yeah, no, I mean like that's it's the level of dive the proficiency of that. I mean he was talking about more dives in one area to get photos of sharks than I will probably ever do in my whole life. |
| Unknown | Yeah. |
| James Stacey | Right. Yeah. And that was just to chase down one idea that the Fakarava shot. Right. And everybody hit the show notes, check out some of his work. The guy is a full on legend and I'm still like kind of blown away that he was... It'd be one thing to go through Blancpain and get 15 minutes or whatever. It's an entirely different thing to get what we what we got, just like we called into Zoom and we chatted for a while. And Jason, I thought you did a great job and I thought he was a fantastic guest. So I'm thrilled about it. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah, I did too. And, you know, I had met Laurent on this Blancpain-sponsored liveaboard trip to Riviera Higedo Islands. And one thing that was interesting was, you know, I was on some dives that he was on. I wouldn't say I was diving with him. He was with his team, which is a really crack team of guys with some incredible camera gear and technology. They would go out ahead of us on one of the ribs, one of the boats, and then we would follow with a small group of divers on another boat. And we'd see them underwater, but we were diving, as you know, a place called the Boiler, which is this pinnacle that pops up from the seafloor, as well as another place called Roca Partida, which is a similar but more remote pinnacle that comes up to the surface. You know, we'd be hovering around, you know, 100 feet, kind of fighting against the current, watching all the fish and sharks and mantas and things swooping around. And then way down below, like probably twice our depth, you'd see these lights. And it was him and his team. And they'd be down there on their rebreathers, you know, filming and taking photographs, you know, at these incredible depths in this high current in a very remote place. And then we'd go back to the boat, the main boat, the liveaboard, and we'd get out and we'd be hang up our gear and we'd be sitting around waiting. And then about an hour later, you know, they'd arrive on their rib and they'd get out, you know, they'd go out before us, come back after us cause they had to do decompression and they were just going so much deeper. And I was just in such awe of, of the kind of stuff they were doing. Um, so yeah, really, really great to chat with him. I, I, I, I'm really in awe of his work and, and we're so appreciative to him for joining us. |
| James Stacey | All right. Well, what do you say we jump into some final notes? Um, yeah, why don't you go ahead? Yeah, I don't mind actually, you know, it's funny. It's episode 123 and I just managed to kind of sort out what I was going to do to celebrate episode 100. Um, obviously the last, uh, 23, the amount of time that it took us to make the last 23 episodes has been kind of a weird time for everyone. So I was a little bit more cautious than I might be about spending money on something, you know, purely for myself and, and to kind of celebrate a win a hundred episodes is huge in my book. Um, and as much as we wanted to do the, you know, the hangout back of the 18th of March, uh, it's a different world, uh, since then. And, and I kind of hemmed and hawed about where I should go with, uh, with this and if I really needed something, but I do feel pretty strongly about celebrating your wins. And, uh, I bought a surprise, surprise, I bought a bag. |
| Jason Heaton | Back to bags. We haven't talked about bags in a while. |
| James Stacey | Yeah, it's been a minute. And this is something, a bag that I've had my eye on for probably as long as he's been offering it, or at least as long as Robert's been on my radar. So we've talked about Robert Spangle before on the show, probably most specifically with a product he makes called the Peacekeeper, which is kind of two stick-on suede stickers that go on the areas next to the track pad on your laptop. Oh yeah, right. And keep your watch from rubbing in a inconvenient way, especially against something like an aluminum MacBook. Yeah. So that's part of the collection. That was one of the first things that, you know, he kind of sent my way to, to check out, it's called the Peacekeeper and that's P-I-E-C-E, if that's helpful. And that's a fairly simple thing. It's straightforward and something I've had on my laptops for some time. Super handy, especially if you've got that one watch that you don't really want to take off in a coffee shop. or throw in a pocket and have it kind of bounce around on its bracelet or that sort of thing. So I really like that. I do find it pretty handy. But one of the other products that he's, you know, kind of laboriously developed over the last few years is this thing called a tango bag. And it's kind of a mix between a shoulder bag and a tote. It's a leather bag. It's not like a bag I've seen before. And I'm so blown away by everything that Robert makes. The idea of being able to support somebody while also celebrating, uh, you know, a personal win with, with a hundred episodes was, was kind of a good one. Now these bags are very expensive. I'm not sitting here saying everyone should go out and, uh, and get one. Um, but if you really like kind of the best in materials applied in a really thoroughly and thoughtful and considered manner, while also coming from a one man brand, which is something that I still love. I love the idea that guys like Robert are out there. Robert's, you know, uh, uh, uh, a professional photographer, fashion photographer for, um, GQ and has done a bunch of other really interesting stuff, including fighting fires in Santa Monica, and he has a military career in his past, and is a really fascinating guy that I'd like to have on the show at some point. If you just wanna support Robert, maybe pick up a pair of Peacekeepers, they're $30. If you wanna celebrate a big win, or maybe your podcast is hitting 100 episodes soon, then I suggest something like the Tango. I've had it for a couple of weeks now, And honestly, I'm just kind of thrilled. It feels really special. It feels like something I probably, you know, like a pure luxury in many ways, if that makes any sense, especially for a guy that like, you know, Jason, in our case, if you, if you had a bag, if you needed a bag, there's companies that would probably just send one. Right. Right. Right. And, and I don't get me wrong. Those are great. And there'll be time and place for bags like this or other bags. But it's just kind of special to have one to kind of call my own and, and, and have it be something kind of suggestive of a kind of a win, of a marking place for the success of TGN and something I'm pretty proud of. And while it's a lot of money for a bag, more money than I'll probably ever spend on a bag, if you compare it to other things that we talk about, watches, it's not that much money. So it is kind of a question of perspective. But yeah, I highly recommend it if you're in the kind of zone 40, makes a couple of different bags. He's a brand new bag, which is more of like a big weekender. with a bunch of really clever designs. And even if you have no interest in buying any of these, I think it's worth going on just to kind of see the aesthetic, because it's not really like anything else. It's this kind of elevated thought of what a sort of general carry bag could be if it was crossed with a little bit of military aesthetic. And I think he does it in such kind of a delicate way that's a kind of signature to his company, which is called the Observer Collection. Which color did you get? The color I got is the tan. |
| Jason Heaton | I like that. It's beautiful. So buttery smooth, it looks like. It's amazing. |
| James Stacey | Yeah, it's fantastic. Some of the nicest leather I've ever held in my hand. It has kind of a very subtle use of mole webbing at the bottom, so you can kind of expand it with more things, or if you want an area to, say, tuck a pocket knife or something like that. It's got a zipper that makes it accessible while it's still on your shoulder, so you can actually get kind of sideways into the bag. I really like it, and it's nice to like something not just for its you know, very strong merits as a product, but also as, like I said, as kind of a signal of a milestone, which is fun. So a big thanks to Robert for making that one possible. These aren't always available. He made this and his other sort of laptop style bag available for a photo shoot I was working on. And then I'd simply said, well, yeah, I don't, let's not send both back. I'll buy the one off you. So nice. Yeah. I'm a, I'm pretty pumped about that, but I also have probably talked as much as I need to about it. Jason, how about you? What's, what's, what do you got for final notes? |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. So there was a guy that I met, I'm not sure if you met him at the H10 event in New York a couple of years ago, the Houdinki 10th anniversary event named Jonathan Hughes. He goes by JJ Hughes on Instagram and real entertaining guy, super nice, big, big time collector. He's got some pretty heavy duty watches in his collection. But what I love about him is that he, he's probably the foremost collector of CWC watches, um, the dive watches, the pilots watches, et cetera. And he's got such a passion for this stuff. He's, I think he's based in London. He's, he's British. Um, that he started a website called cwcaddict.com. It's a pretty fledgling site, uh, with just a few articles. But the first one I came across that I just love is called from the diary of a Royal Navy dive watch. And it's really cool. It's, it's exactly as the title suggests. It's, It looks at an actual dive log from a Royal Navy diver who was working during the Falklands War era, that being the 1982-83 timeframe. This was about the time that CWC was transitioning from its automatic dive watches to the quartz ones. And this diver, whose name we don't hear or read, was tasked with evaluating one of the last of the automatic movement CWC dive watches that the Navy used. And so they sent it with him to do various diving tasks. He just wore it. And then in his dive log notes, he would write his impressions of various aspects of wearing this watch. It's super nerdy, but it's really fascinating. I think I love reading about the evaluations that were used to assess dive watches, um, you know, when they were actually used, uh, properly. And, you know, there were the early sixties ones from the U S Navy that, um, qualified the Blancpain 50 fathoms and certainly the MOD spec documents for, for the creation of the mil sub and that sort of stuff. But, um, to see these, these handwritten and there's photographs, these handwritten impressions by this diver of his watch and his kind of frustrations about the, the, the drifting accuracy, And the fact that I think at some point it it leaked because he he hadn't screwed in the crown completely You know, it's this interesting stuff and he really makes a case for quartz because he compares it to a different watch that he's using that's quartz and he's like, you know, this watch isn't as accurate as the quartz watch and plus I have to He doesn't wear it 24-7 so he has to unscrew the crown to wind it and that's why he forgot to screw it back in when he was went back in the water and It's just a really entertaining, really a cool kind of scholarly kind of article about the history of this pretty obscure brand and even more obscure watch. So I'm a big fan of Jonathan's. I've been corresponding with him recently about this site and he's excited to have it launched. And you know, he's a busy guy and he collects a lot of other watches, but I love his passion for this fairly humble brand and the watches. So check that out. It's really good. |
| James Stacey | That sounds great. Yeah. Very cool. And, uh, and yeah, always nice to get, uh, more, more of an eye towards CWC at times it feels like, uh, like they're a brand that's, you know, kind of primed for, uh, kind of bigger presence among, among the enthusiast market. And, uh, they certainly make some great stuff. So hopefully that site is a hit and yeah, be sure to check out cwcaddict.com. Very cool. Yeah. So as always, thank you so much for listening. You can hit the show notes via Hodinkee.com or the feed for more details. And of course, a huge thank you to G-Shock and Master G for supporting this episode. You can follow us on Instagram at Jason Heaton and at J.E. Stacey, and you can follow the show at The Graynado. If you have any questions for us, please write thegraynado at gmail.com. And of course, keep sending in those voice memos. Additionally, please subscribe and review wherever you find your podcasts and music throughout a siesta by Jazar via the free music archive. |
| Jason Heaton | And we leave you with this quote from Robin Mundell who said, |