The Grey NATO - 120 - July Q And A
Published on Thu, 30 Jul 2020 06:00:26 -0400
Synopsis
This episode of The Grey NATO podcast covers a wide range of topics related to watches and adventure gear. Jason and James discuss tool recommendations for a home renovation project, provide advice on selecting a first digital camera, debate the merits of being a "one watch" person, and explore the historical context around controversial watch names. They also answer listener questions about finding replacement watch straps, modern watch movements, and the durability of dress watches for everyday wear.
Links
Transcript
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| James | Hello and welcome to another episode of the GrayNado. It's a Hodinkee podcast, a loose discussion of travel, diving, driving gear, and most certainly watches. This is episode 120 and we thank you for listening. I'm joined as ever by my co-host Jason Heaton. Jason, how are you doing? |
| Jason | Pretty good. Pretty good. Yeah. We're back, back to the grind here. We're, uh, yeah. A little quieter week than I had last week after the trip. Kind of just unpacking and chilling out. Been hot here, been kind of a classic, you know, classic midsummer, I guess, just hanging out by the AC all weekend and getting by. How about you? |
| James | Yeah, I mean, first up, I would say if you hear power tools and other terrible noises happening in the background, I did my best. We are recording this. in the early evening. The construction crew is supposed to be to have been done about 25 minutes ago, and I can still hear them cutting or grinding some terrible thing upstairs. I apologize. I'm doing my very best. I literally can't explain how much recording I've had to push into the middle of the night to get some level of silence. So we're doing our best. I hope that it won't be super loud. But for the most part, and, you know, I think I've loosely hinted at what this project would be. But, you know, it's not in the books yet, so we're not going to talk about it. But for the most part, you're shooting and writing and navigating construction noise and the rest of it. You know, the sleep has suffered. The mind is frayed, thin and frayed. But we're here. And yeah, you know, it's been a fine week, like what you said, Jason. It's just insanely hot. It's a lot of time in the one room I've got that has AC and just kind of hanging out. Yeah. |
| Jason | Yeah. I kind of go back and forth with tolerance for heat. Like if you spend more time in it, do you get more tolerant and then you can kind of spend more time in it or do you run? My thing is I do it as long as I can and then I kind of run and just enjoy the respite in an air conditioned room. But then you get so acclimated to that, that it's harder to be out in the heat. So I've been. Yeah. Kind of going back and forth. I think our camping trip got me outside enough. I think I punched that card for a while and I can enjoy the, uh, the modern conveniences here for a while. |
| James | Yeah. I, you know, I've, I've always been a kind of summer boy. I like it hot and this is nice. And when it hits, you know, more like mid to high nineties, you know, mid thirties here. Uh, and it's just so humid in Toronto. Uh, it's a different heat than I was used to on the West coast. You know, not only did we seldom see that kind of heat, just the raw temperature, but there was just more air moving around, uh, out there closer to the water. So it's, uh, it, it genuinely, it, it, it doesn't bother me. Sometimes it feels kind of oppressive and yet you sit in the AC and you kind of catch your breath and then move on. Uh, but, but when you're trying to record something and you have to wear a long sleeve shirt and of course you have to be wearing pants and you, and you're just, you're just fighting off the sweat the whole time because you don't want, you don't want this kind of permanent record. of a project to just be you dripping sweat and stains and the rest of it. So that's where it definitely gets the best of me. And for a while, it was getting quite a bit cooler at night. It would drop into the mid-20s. The last few nights have been high 20s, 30 Celsius. I know I'm jumping around, but if you double the number and add 34, you'll get there pretty quickly. It gets you at least close. Yeah. Um, but yeah, so it's, uh, it's been, it's been kind of a thing, you know, I'm, I'm looking forward to, uh, I'm, I'm, we're, have you seen the, the, have you gotten any of these Instagrams that are people jumping off docs or. Oh yeah. Doc wrist shots and that kind of thing, which I love. That's been, those have been keeping me going for sure. It's been kind of a, a tough week as far as motivation goes. Um, lots of weird feedback online and that kind of thing about work. And then, uh, to see, to see the occasional, you know, 777, either underwater or I got one, this is like a 777 with no bezel on a dock. And I was just like, this is good. People are having a summer. |
| Jason | Yeah. I think, you know, in many ways that that's what this strange year has been all about. I think it's been kind of appreciating different things. And as we've talked about before, you know, finding micro adventures, whether it's, you know, you camping in the yard or us swimming and snorkeling in a freshwater lake somewhere. That's kind of what it's been. For me, it's been Getting out in the garden. Kashani and I have a fair size backyard and we, um, last night we were out, uh, after it got a little cooler and we moved some, moved some plants around and mulched and I cut back some pretty invasive vines that were growing up the side of the garage and, and, you know, just stuff like that. It's all pretty satisfying stuff I normally wouldn't do in another year. And I, I'm kind of embracing the, the gardening lifestyle here. So, um, you know, that's been, That's been kind of fun and well, well needed around here, well overdue. But, you know, that's that's been kind of a classic summer here in Midwestern U.S. and one that I haven't been been doing over the past few years. So and you're off to the cottage more regularly this year as well and doing some some work there as well. |
| James | Yeah. So this is kind of a fun thing, because I will preface this by saying I don't necessarily need unless you figure you've got the the tool. for the job. I don't need that many recommendations. I'm lucky enough to be surrounded by people who do this kind of work for a living. And I could make a couple phone calls, both from the product side and from people who actually use them. But I'm planning to start working more intently on refurbishing this property, this old farmhouse, to get it up to a point where it's a nice, comfortable sort of cabin scenario. And to do that will require more tools than I typically keep. I have a drill, basically, and a hammer. I have the three or four things that most people have in their home. Yeah. But there's a few things that I was gonna need, and it's been nice. We've said this a million times and to say it again, but to operate as a layman within a space to learn about something and the rest of it. So I finally kind of have committed myself to the DeWalt ecosystem, I think, which I've been very happy with in the past. I have a couple of tools from them, including a really lovely corded drill, which will be less handy on a property that doesn't really have reliable power everywhere. That's on the list of things to fix. Kind of working my way through, you know, it's not so much off the grid as much as the building just needs some repairs before the grid is restored. And so I'm starting to build kind of a proper tool setup that would... And along with that, and this is quite smart, is these people that I know, my brother and some of his friends that do this for a living, they work with power tools and tools in general. They basically said like the tools are one thing, one problem you have to solve, but you're mostly committing to a battery platform. And the other one is storage. And my brother is deeply into this company called Festool. And Festool is insanely expensive. It's awesome. It's super high end. It's not the kind of stuff you're going to find at Home Depot. But that's what my brother has. And he has this kind of like stacking thing that almost looks like you bought it from an Ikea. it's kind of muted gray plastic, everything is modular, everything has a place, it's beautifully organized and it houses an array of tools and it's expandable and the rest of it. And I said like, Grant, I'm not gonna buy anything from Fez Tool, like the bins would cost kind of my entire project budget. Yeah. And he said, yeah, but the thing is, is if you don't mind the looks and the rest of it, or if you're moving in and out to more... Like my brother does a lot of fine finishing work and cabinetry and that sort of thing. Um, but he said for people who work in in more kind of active job site scenarios like, uh, they have, um, like to Walt has a compete, not a competing product, but like a similar thing of stackable modular tool storage. And I know this will sound like an ad. DeWalt has no idea that I'm talking about this. I don't know anybody at DeWalt proper. I have a friend who actually, along with repping Omega reps to Walt and does a beautiful job at that. And I wrote him and I said, like, do I go with the really high end stuff for the slightly middle stuff or the more entry level stuff? And he said, honestly, for your uses, a guy that might pick it up a couple of times a month and all of the stuff is going to be rad. So just get what you can get on sale, which is a pretty good, pretty good tip, I think. And so I'm looking at a few different options. Uh, but the, the modular tool system is kind of fun. Uh, so I've started receiving a couple of those in the mail and, and the, the level of just kind of like the ability to take kind of a whole stack, put it in the back of the Jeep. And then when I get home, put it back in the garage is kind of cool. |
| Jason | Oh, nice. Well, you realize, even though, even though you, you issued that disclaimer, you're still going to get a ton of emails and DMs. I'm sure we will for sure. |
| James | And I'm sure that there's people who are saying like, you should have gone with Makita instead of DeWalt, or you should have gone with this or that. And, and I had these conversations with people who use all the different platforms. And at a certain point, you just pick one. Right. And this one seemed relatively straightforward. They're available just about everywhere. And that's what I've gone with. It's what I've experienced in the past. And it seems like a relatively stable platform. So I look forward to it. I can't really report back on the tools themselves or the overall setup. But as this develops in the next week or two, hopefully have a little bit more feedback as maybe this is something with more people kind of not so much forced to stay around home proper, but around a home, uh, might start considering, you know, learning a few, a few tricks of the trade and, and improving that space. I know if I, you know, that's how it's feeling to me these days. |
| Jason | Yeah. Well, Hey, uh, we should, before we jump into risk check and main topic, why don't we just, uh, update people a little bit of housekeeping here. We are planning to go back to alternating week episodes, uh, coming up here shortly. In fact, probably after this episode. So we'll be back to every other week. Um, But we'll also continue doing the one Q&A per month. So most months we'll probably have three episodes instead of four. But it's more than the two we used to do. So we're just kind of trying to regularize the schedule to get more in sync with our host platform over at Hodinkee. And certainly James's workload, also doing a lot of editorial work for them, just kind of made sense to move to a slightly different model than we've been doing since, gosh, March or April. |
| James | Yeah, it's been I think we're hitting I think this is 18 or 19 episodes we've done essentially back to back. We did take a week off, which we appreciate at a high level. And I think the way that it'll work now is we'll have more time to sink into the Q&A episode a month, basically, as you know, normally it was part of the weekly schedule. So we had a week. Yeah. Now we can kind of take it and make it maybe something a little bit more robust. Maybe that means we can call in experts when we need them. Uh, and that sort of thing. And then otherwise we'll go back to the normal two episode format per month. And, uh, as a net outcome, you know, you still all get three episodes. So I don't feel too bad, uh, in, in the long scheme of things, but I do appreciate that everybody was, was enjoying and listening to the weekly episodes. So we'll, we'll do our best. And if certainly if a case ever comes up to offer a fourth episode, whether it be for a special reason or a special partner or something like that, we're not going to hesitate. Uh, it's more just a question of time management and making sure that we can continue to make the best show possible while covering all the other bases in our lives. Yeah. Right. So how about some risk check? |
| Jason | Yeah. So, uh, this week I'm, I'm back to the Seiko Safari. So the SPB zero to nine, um, This is the, you know, certainly the one I just bought a few weeks ago. I'm actually working on a Hodinkee review of this. Oh, nice. It's one of those reviews where, you know, you actually bought the watch and are reviewing kind of an owner's review rather than just a kind of a loaner review, which is rare and also fun. I did have a chance to get diving and I've been I've actually been doing getting dirty out in the garden. It's kind of the perfect watch for all that. So all that will be coming up probably in the next week or two. I look forward to a review. Yeah. How about you? |
| James | It'll be fun. Yeah, I went back with kind of a summer classic for me, the 50th Pro Doxa. um you know just on uh on a tan nato which i think is a real winner yeah uh that you know that kind of blend and and the more of a tan you've got i've got a decent tan going at this point in the summer with the top off on the jeep so that the orange looks even better that way and yeah it was just kind of like uh you know like i said it was kind of kind of a week where you got beat into the ground a little bit and i wanted uh wanted something that made me smile and that doxa kind of always checks that box so |
| Jason | Yeah, and just a little side note here, you know, our love of Garmin, I wore my Descent for the diving I did up in Michigan and you wear your Phoenix quite a bit. Our friends over at Garmin had a tough week as well with their outage. I think they're coming back. I went for a bike ride with my Descent yesterday and it seemed to sync up just fine. So I think they're coming out of the woods, but yeah, shout out to them. I'm sure they put in a lot of long nights coming out of that mess. |
| James | Yeah, for sure. And if you're, if you want to learn more about, uh, what they kind of went through with, uh, sort of a ransomware attack at a, at a high level, uh, we can throw that in the show notes as well. It's a, it's an insane story of, uh, you know, modern day. Yeah. Ransom, you know, that's what it is. And a huge outage for what has otherwise been a pretty rock solid platform and, and a free platform at that. Uh, so I'm sure that they're thankful that people, you know, gave, gave them the time to get that sorted out. And that said, I'm sure it was just a disturbingly expensive overall outcome. So this is the time of year where people definitely want the most from their Garmin devices. And I'm sure we're all thrilled to have them back online. I also did a bike ride yesterday. And it synced up with Kinect. So I think, at least from my standpoint, it looks like it's working again. So cool. We'll see if, and if there's more developments to that, we'll get to it to next week. But we're glad to see at least anecdotally that Garmin's on the other side of this one. |
| Jason | Yeah. Well, Q&A. Big episode. We've got a good crop of questions this week. And I think we might be able to get through them all. |
| James | Yeah, we might just. |
| Jason | Kind of hustle and and be fastidious in our timing here. |
| James | And for anyone who's just getting to this being their first Q&A episode, welcome, of course. It's a specific format. Basically, if you have a question for the show that you would like to be featured on the show in audio, we don't do Q&As via reading text, we'll reply to your email happily, thegreatnadoatgmail.com. But if you would like your question to be played in front of the audience and be part of a discussion between Jason and I then simply take your phone out, record a voice memo of you asking the question, please keep it to less than a minute, and then email that question to thegraynadoatgmail.com, and that's how you get on a show such as this one. Jason, why don't you take it away? |
| Jason | All right, well, here's our first question from Gary, who has a question about being a OneWatch guy. |
| Gary | Hi, guys. A while back, there was a Talking Watches segment on Hodinkee where Jack Nicklaus spoke about his single Rolex and how he wore it for years. I got to thinking I'd like to be that way. Just be comfortable wearing the same versatile watch and never needing another. Instead, something else always strikes my eyes and I start investigating the next purchase. Recently, your conversations have me investigating Doxa, which is a brand I wasn't aware of until the great NATO. Haven't pulled the trigger on that one yet. Wondering what your thoughts are on this. Do either of you sometimes wish you could stick with one watch? Take care, gentlemen. |
| Jason | Stay safe. So what do you think on that one, James? Have you had aspirations? |
| James | I think, moreover, my aspirations would be more like, could I be a three-watch guy? Just because there's so much simplicity there, but also all the variety that you might want and enthusiasm. |
| Unknown | Yeah. |
| James | yeah i think for gary like don't i would say don't force it if if if all you want to wear is one watch then maybe you're a one watch guy if you're finding other watches that you want that you want to check out that you want to try that you buy or sell or whatever like i mean that that's the enthusiastic part of this whole thing is that is the kind of the push the the zest the spice or whatever and and i don't think it's worth necessarily denying that if you still feel that like watch appreciation is something that feeds you in some way, feeds your soul or whatever. Uh, for me, I, I like the idea of getting down to three because I think I get three without feeling really all that confined. Um, but I should probably focus on maybe getting to like 10 or eight first. What do you think Jason? |
| Jason | Yeah, I'm, I I've long been on record as just hoping and wanting to be a one watch guy, but I, I can't, I can't do it for whatever reason. I think I've already got a collection. I, I bristle at the thought of being a collector and someone who kind of accumulates watches and, and I've met the, you know, we've all met those guys that are one watch people. And, um, I admire that kind of minimalist strategy of, of just, you know, having one piece of good gear, whether it's, you know, you know, one car you drive for 50 years or a pair of boots or whatever it is. And it's the same with watches. But on the other hand, um, I like the look of watches. I like the different applications of different watches, whether it's a Garmin for a bike ride or a Doxa for diving and a Chronograph for something else. So, yeah, I think your idea of kind of getting down to a three watch collection is a good one. But I would just say, Gary, don't fight it. Be true to yourself. And if you do enjoy the variety and you like the kind of the hunt and trying out different things, you know, Do it as long as you can, as long as you can afford it and you don't put your family in the poor house by doing it. Have at it. |
| James | All right. Thanks for that one very much, Gary. Next up, we've got one from Jason about finding an OEM strap. |
| Jason from Pittsburgh | Good day, gents. Jason here from Pittsburgh, PA. Longtime listener and huge fan. Keep up the great work. My question is about manufacturer straps and bracelets. I have a current gen Omega Seamaster in Pierce Brosnan blue on the bracelet and I would like to purchase the new titanium mesh strap from the new Bond Seamaster or an OEM Omega blue rubber strap. I can't find them anywhere online and I don't have an AD nearby. I could imagine someone with a Planet Ocean on a bracelet wanting the rubber or a Submariner owner wanting the Jubilee from the new GMT Master. Is there a way to purchase these OEM straps and bracelets and why don't manufacturers offer them for sale? Thanks again for all that you guys do. Can't wait for the next episode. Cheers. |
| James | All right, Jason. So an interesting question, and I think depending on the example that you used, you moved through a few different examples there, some of which are possible, many of which are simply not possible unless you have pretty strong secondary market connections. If you have a watch where it was offered in multiple bracelets or multiple mounts, you might be able to get the other one just through your A.D. And I understand if you don't have an A.D. nearby, this would mean calling a good A.D. and asking them to put in an order for you. So let's say you had a Planet Ocean on the bracelet and you wanted the rubber. I think this is very much possible. The same way we're like if you buy a Breitling on a pro strap and you want the Hershey, you have to talk to a Breitling A.D. and either see what they have or see what they can order in. But typically, if the strap was designed specifically to your watch, to that reference number, then I think you're okay. The example you gave where you have a Pierce Brosnan blue dial and you want the titanium mesh, I cannot imagine for one moment that Omega is going to be okay with that. That's not how they designed it. The two metals don't go together. I don't know that they would sell it separately because it's a strap or a bracelet that's only offered with a single model within their product line. And then you also use the option of a Submariner wanting a different bracelet. For anyone who's been through this experience with their AD, You can't change Rolex bracelets at an official level to anything that wasn't offered directly with your specific reference. So not even one GMT-Master to another. If you bought a GMT-Master that comes on one bracelet and you want the other, you're going to have to buy it through the second-hand market. You're going to have to find someone willing to sell theirs. And AD will not give you one. You can go even deeper into this where, like, you could buy a Daytona on a bracelet and then go to your AD and say, hey, this Daytona, the same similar reference, but this Daytona essentially, I would like to get the Oysterflex, the rubber strap for it. It's not available. You basically have to have the strap that comes with your watch. And if you needed a replacement, I would assume there's some sort of a hoop to jump through it. You need to have a watch that essentially shipped with that mount originally. And that's simply the way that these brands operate. Uh, you know, they, they design the bracelets or the straps or the leather in a, in a very specific way. And that's how they market it. And especially when it comes to Rolex, there's not any, it's not like the ad could just decide to do something or not because that could threaten their relationship with Rolex. Yeah. Um, so I think you, you need to start to look into secondary markets for finding these things. And that would be going on watch recon and setting up an alert. to see if somebody was selling it. Now, in your case, wanting the titanium Milanese bracelet from the new Bond SM, that means someone wants to get rid of the main mount for their watch, which is almost unheard of. Which means, Jason, you might be at the very last stage of this, which is what happens to people who have, say, a vintage gold Rolex and decide they want the bracelet later. You have to buy an entire other finished kit, a whole watch with the bracelet. disconnect the bracelet and then sell the watch. |
| Unknown | Yeah. |
| James | And I know that you're like rolling your eyes. You're saying like, that can't possibly be the case. I literally spoke to somebody who knows what they're talking about in the last 72 hours saying that, like, I have this gold Datejust, I really want a specific bracelet for it. There's no possible way to buy it on a secondary market, on a collector market. This is someone like deep in the overall community. and their option is basically to buy another similar watch that has the bracelet they want, take the bracelet and then sell the watch. |
| Jason | Yeah. Crazy. Yeah. I would say, um, you know, Jason, you have a very specific need and actually a very, um, rare one, I guess I would say is, is moving that titanium Milanese to a standard Bond Seamaster. I think for others that are listening that are maybe interested in getting OEM straps, uh, and maybe you don't have an AD locally. I'll just anecdotally tell a story about, uh, when my wife got her planet ocean chronograph, uh, the 37 and a half millimeter one many years ago. Um, it came on the bracelet and she really wanted that stitched rubber strap with the deployant clasp that was offered on some of them. And, um, at the time, I don't think, gosh, this was long enough ago that I don't think we had a big enough Omega dealer in town. Um, so I actually called around the country and I got ahold of one in Chicago and they were willing to ship it to me for that watch because it was actually made for that watch. So in that case it was fine. So that's one option. And then specifically if you're looking for some brands, there's a company called Autofry or Ofry.com. Oh, good call. Good call. Sells watchmaking equipment and they're kind of one of the big resources for watchmakers in the country. I'm not sure actually where they're located, but they are US based. They carry a lot of official Omega stuff. I mean, they sell case backs, bezels, looking at their website, they even sell Omega movements, buckles. You can get rubber straps, you know, the old style Planet Ocean straps. I see a link here for Omega titanium bracelet information. So we'll put a link in the, in the show notes for this. This is ofrei.com, O-F-R-E-I.com. And they do carry a fair amount of Omega stuff. |
| James | That's a great memory, Jason. Back when I had my 2254, I wanted the rubber strap, but I wanted the Planet Ocean style rubber strap. At the time, one of the shows I was watching every week, Jeremy Clarkson probably still has, but at the time he very frequently wore a Planet Ocean on the rubber strap. And it just looked great. And they also like these guys went all over the world and you never once saw him care that he was wearing this watch. It just kind of looked right. And there were some guys on Watch You Seek who had bought the one from this retailer, from Otto, and had mounted it and it looked really slick. It has that kind of V-shape next to the lugs. Very sporty. A great watch, certainly. But yeah, that's a fantastic memory. I should have remembered that because, yeah, there are sources. And that's a great one. And when I bought other watchmaking equipment from them, they've been great. |
| Jason | Yeah. So check it out. Thanks for the question, Jason. We'll move on to one from Kyle. I think, James, this is probably specifically for you. |
| Neil | Yep. Hey, James and Jason. Kyle here. I'm a longtime Greynado listener and huge fan of the show. I was wondering, this question I guess is maybe more for James, whether you had any recommendations of Canadian based stores, whether brick and mortar or online, that have a good selection of straps and other watch accessories. I find often I'm looking online at US based shops and when you factor in exchange rate and shipping, it ends up being quite a bit more than I'd planned on spending. So any Canadian recommendations would be greatly appreciated. Thanks so much guys. |
| James | Hey, Kyle, thanks very much for your question. I don't actually have a great answer for you. The straps that I've bought have come from all over the world. Typically, they're so specific, like it could be an Erica's. You're only going to buy one from Erica or something. You know, maybe I only want leather from a certain guy that's made it or from a certain, you know, supplier or something like that. But I actually don't know of any. I can't recall the last time I bought any sort of anything from a retailer in Canada, short of maybe a strap or two from Rolldorf when I lived in Vancouver. And certainly depending on the strap you're looking for, Rolldorf is a good option. They carry a handful of different brands and you can easily send them an email and see what they've got or what they might recommend. But outside of that, now I'm a citizen of the world when it comes to buying sometimes too expensive straps online, for sure. It also, at some level, does help to work for a huge strap retailer like Hodinkee. The other thing to keep in mind is I just might not be the right person to ask. I wear almost all of my watches 24-7 on $22 NATOs. So the fact that I have to pay the exchange rate and some shipping really doesn't make them that expensive of a strap in the end to get one from UTE Watch Co., previously toxic NATOs. That's pretty much how I wear my watches. So I've removed a lot of the cost out of watch straps pretty quickly. Until you start to deal with things that have a high enough value that you're dealing with taxes and that kind of thing, then really the difference will be the exchange, which is just kind of fair market value for $1 to another, right? Someone still has to make or source or procure the watch strap in some metric. So none of that's bothered me in the past. I haven't come across a de facto a strap provider within Canada. |
| Jason | All right, let's move on to Fuzzy, who's got a question about desert gear. |
| Fuzzy | Hello, this is Fuzzy and I live in the desert Southwest in Tucson, Arizona. My question for you is, if you were stranded in the desert Southwest in Tucson during a pandemic and you like to mountain bike, hike and rock climb, what's on your wrist and what are some things you're bringing along as far as gear, knives, backpack, et cetera. Love what you do. |
| James | Keep it going. Hey Fuzzy, that's a great question. And as I rambled extensively for the last one, I'll let Jason start first. |
| Jason | Well, I think the first, my first priority would be water and a way of carrying it. It's always the limiting factor when you're spending a lot of time outside in the summer or someplace hot. Gosh, you know, however you can, you can carry water. I used to be a real camelback devotee in terms of, you know, the, the water bladder on the back scenario. Um, lately I've been going more with bottles. So, um, whatever your preference is, uh, some way of carrying water. I'm assuming if you live in, in Tucson and live in the desert area, you're probably familiar with, uh, with good ways of doing that in terms of what's on the wrist. Um, you know, mountain biking, hiking, that sort of thing. I, I'm, I'm inclined to tell you to go with something like a garment. Uh, yeah, go with an instinct. Yeah. Yeah. Garmin instinct. Um, you know, what is it, what are they going for these days? 300 bucks or thereabouts. A super lightweight piece on a, on a hot sweaty wrist. You know, it'll help you with all the activities, track all the activities you're doing. If you're, you know, hiking out in the desert and you happen to get lost or up in the mountains, they're outside of Tucson. Uh, there's a navigation function on it so you can get back where you're going. Um, so I, I would say, you know, a lightweight Garmin instinct would be a good way to go there. The battery life's pretty, pretty good on these. So you can be out for a few days without having to charge it. Good for rock climbing, you can bash it up a bit, whereas wearing something heavier like a mechanical watch with a steel case is going to get pretty chewed up doing stuff like that. Other than that, gosh, some sort of a less expensive field watch, something from Hamilton or something would be nice, and I think a NATO strap that We'll get a bit sweaty while you're out doing your fun stuff. You can always throw it in the wash when you get back home. But yeah, that's kind of what I would go with. Maybe not the sexiest answer to go with something like a Garmin, but I think it kind of fits the bill for what you're doing, especially the mountain biking and the rock climbing. |
| James | Yeah. Yeah, for sure. You know, I would tend to agree. I think that if your goal is to have a watch for those activities, that's where Garmin excels. If you want to watch for just kind of everything that can also do those activities, I'd probably take my Explorer, um, throw it on a NATO, keep it easy. It's definitely going to put up with the abuse. That's not going to be on the, you know, obviously if you take a big wipe out on the bike, you could chew up just about everything on your body. Um, but outside of that scenario, I think, um, yeah, something like the Explorer, but I probably, I would either want both. Like if you don't want to double risk, then put the, put the instinct on the backpack strap. |
| Unknown | Yeah. |
| James | The other nice thing is you spend a little bit more in the Garmin ecosystem. You can start controlling your music from your wrist, which can be pretty nice if you're busy doing other things, biking, climbing, that sort of thing. You could have the watch on a carabiner if you don't want it on your wrist and still have control of your Spotify or whatever else is going on. I think the tracking is really handy. I really like the ability to keep an eye on things like barometric pressure. Uh, you know, have a compass, uh, all those sorts of things, all in one device that can be pretty easily charged from a small battery, a small USB battery. Uh, outside of the watch concern, I would probably carry some sort of water filtration. So on top of what Heaton said, where you're leaving home with your water, maybe a LifeStraw, uh, pretty, pretty solid pick for 15 bucks. I don't know what the, I know that obviously it's the desert, so water is limited, but obviously there's scenarios where there is water. So assuming you can access that, then you would have essentially the ability to drink your fill with a LifeStraw, which I've done in a couple of occasions where I really needed it. And for a long time, that was something I always kept in my bag. If you're going to be spending more time out and you need to purify water, then something like a Sawyer, you know, they sell an entire system. You can use these sort of flat packable water bags. They have a hanging filter, so you can fill up one bag and then filters into the other bag. And if you're talking about like true backpacking, especially in a scenario where you might have to be pretty precious about water, I think this is a good option. Outside of water, it's the desert, so probably sun protection. Yeah, get yourself a solid hat, get yourself something that's gonna cover your neck as much as possible. Uh, and then, you know, a shirt and gloves, uh, if you're out on the bike all day, uh, make sure you keep your, your hands covered. Uh, cause the backs of your hands will burn for sure. Uh, so yeah, I would say, you know, consider your water, consider your, uh, sun. And then as far as, uh, the watch at the, the absolute activity tool watch in the world is by my measure is Garmin and I've used them for so long. Uh, it's an easy choice. |
| Jason | Great. Well, thanks. Uh, thanks fuzzy for that one. And, uh, next up is. Brian, who wants to ask about our criteria for letting a watch go. |
| Brian | Hey guys, Brian from Raleigh. SirWatchesRaleigh on Instagram. Quick question for you. How do you know when it's time to let a watch go? Jason, I know you let your Breitling Emergency Orbiter 3 go a while ago after that amazing article. And James, you mentioned that you recently gifted your Breitling Aerospace to a friend. Just wondering, what's y'all's criteria for when it's time to let a watch go, whether you sell it or gift it away? Thanks so much. Love everything you guys are doing. Here is to another 100 episodes. Thanks. |
| James | Hey, Brian. Thanks very much for that question. It's a solid one. It's the one that we've kind of dipped into a few times on past episodes. In my case, one, I would say I didn't gift my Aerospace. I sold it. A solid watch and one that I kind of miss, but also I'll be OK without. I had my time with it, which is great. As far as deciding when something needs to go, it really does kind of just come down to are you wearing it or not? If it's the sort of watch that needs to be worn, if you're not a, you know, a capital C collector, then you should probably be wearing most of the watches that you've got. Otherwise, maybe it makes sense to get rid of them and fund something else, whether it be maybe save up for a trip or a new piece of gear in a different space or for another watch or something like that. And typically, if I'm really not sure or if I kind of feel like I might be getting kind of lukewarm on a watch, I'll just do the box test, which I've talked about in the past on past Q&As even. I'll put the watch back in its box, put it away in a cabinet, and I'll see, you know, how long it takes me to think about it. And sometimes I'll go like a while, like months, and then I'll realize, like, I don't need this watch one bit. It's not bringing me any specific happiness. |
| Jason | What do you think, Jason? Yeah, I think two things you said ring really true for me. And one is, you know, when you let go of your aerospace, yeah, you're kind of sad, but also you had your time with it. And I think that's the way I felt about that Orbiter Emergency and many other watches that I've sold and i look back and i see people wearing something similar and i think i used to have one of those it's kind of like i had a plow prof you know like sure i'd love to be wearing a plow prof again but i had my time i enjoyed it uh enjoyed that watch and i think enjoy the time you have with it all right let's not let's not dwell on the plow pro um but uh you know you you have your time and when something either becomes I'm take that money that you make from it and go on a trip. And nowadays it's a little more difficult. |
| James | You can't, but you could save up or plan or, you know, yeah. |
| Jason | Or, or, but develop a new hobby, you know, maybe you need some power tools, maybe you need a new piano or guitar or something. And that can be a good way to kind of channel that, um, that regret or, or kind of get over a watch that you're vacillating about. I personally have probably three or four watches that are true keepers and the rest are fairly expendable. And for me, it's a very visual thing or a very kind of, intangible criteria for what makes a watch stick around or go. And I think once that time is gone, once the love is gone, I just move it on and try not to look back. |
| James | Yeah, fair point. Good question, Brian. Thanks very much for writing in and for listening to the show. Up next, we've got one from Peter, who's questioning the durability of a dressy watch. |
| Peter | Hey, James and Jason. This is Peter calling from Northern Vermont. I've been listening for a while. I love what you guys do. It's a great, great break to my week. I'm calling because I have a Ulysse Nardin Marine Torpier. It's a dress watch, 50 meter water resistance. And my question is, how durable is that watch? Am I okay to wear that watch swimming? Splashing around in the pool or the lake? Doing yard work? I mean, I'm a little concerned about damaging it. And I just want to know if it's something to reserve for lower activity times and keep it as a dress watch or if I can wear it as an everyday watch. Again, thanks for what you guys are doing. I appreciate everything you're putting out and hope to hear more soon. Thanks. Bye. |
| Jason | Thanks for that question, Peter. We certainly have covered this topic in the past, kind of the durability of watches or when to take it off when you're doing a specific activity. I can't speak for every specific brand or watch. And by the way, that, that Torpier is a beautiful watch. So congratulations. Yeah. It's one, it's one that we just don't see or hear about very often, but it's a great watch. Um, but I think most watches, most modern luxury watches, um, are built to take a fair degree of abuse. I mean, not that they're intended for that, but I think, um, most are suitable for everyday wear short of, you know, some sort of a very delicate paddock or, or, you know, Cartier tank or something like that. I mean, when you think about watches that have been worn in combat or to the poles or up mountains back in the fifties and sixties, think about how much more crude those watches were like a Nevada Grenchen Antarctica watch or the Tudor Greenland watches or the roll, even the early explorers. I mean, these, these are watches that had plastic crystals. The, the CNC machining technology was nowhere near what it is today. The seals they were using, the testing they could do. Um, So I think a 50 meter watch like the Torpier would probably be okay for most things, short of putting in fence posts with a post hole digger or a sledgehammer or golfing and things like that. I think certainly taking a swim with it would probably be just fine. I would say if you really want to wear this watch, get it tested for water resistance fairly regularly. and wear it. And if you're not comfortable with a certain activity or there's a question about it, take it off, stick it in your pocket, leave it on the dresser. But I think these watches are up for more than we give them credit for. That's my two cents. |
| James | Yeah, I agree. I think UN makes an incredible watch. And like I said, this is a killer. This is a really, really cool watch. On top of that, I think it's probably tougher than people would give it credit. The problem is, and you highlighted it in your question, which is well done, 50 meters water resistance is so vague because 10 or 30 and you go like, I think I know what they're trying to say to me. And 100, you also know that they're saying like, yeah, you can get it wet, come on. But 50 is almost like saying nothing. And I went into the watch's user manual and it makes no reference of getting the watch wet. Um, it also doesn't seem to list that there's a, it shows the crown positions in the user manual, but it makes no statement about, uh, any position, you know, the a position in, in this scenario being one that's screwed down. And that's typically where my brain goes between what I take it in a pool or in a Lake and not, if there's a screw down crown and they say 50 meters, I'm good. If it, if it has a passive crown and they say 50 meters, I'm kind of like, I'll just leave it. I'll leave it in my shoe or maybe not a UN. I might leave that at home and wear something else to the lake. I'm not sure. It depends on the lake, whether or not I would leave my Ulysses Nardin in my shoe. With the UN, I think I would agree with Jason that if this is something where you would enjoy the watch more by just knowing you could keep it on your wrist, whether you were in the pool or a lake or whatever, just get it pressure tested. I don't think it needs to be wet tested. Just get it air tested. We're not talking about extreme depths. I mean, at most, you might be what? three to five meters, five meters if you're really having a good time. Yeah. Um, you know, that's, that's 15 feet. And, um, I think, yeah, otherwise for, for most things, aside from like extremely vibration based activities, I think you're fine with the mechanical watch and, and certainly you're fine with the UN. They make a lovely watch. |
| Jason | Yeah. Well, good question. Enjoy that watch, Peter. Uh, really, really a fun piece. Let's move on to one from a Wolf in Germany. |
| Wolf | Hey guys, this is Wolf from Germany. I love the podcast. Thank you so much for creating content for this niche interest of ours. You've been a longtime fixture in my podcast rotation. I've recently had a baby girl, so it gave me an excuse to buy a new watch and it came with a NATO strap from the factory. And you guys seem to be the obvious guys to kind of ask about, you know, wear, tear and care of NATO straps and what to kind of think about when using NATO straps every day. I kind of like to take care of my stuff. So some tips and pointers would be much appreciated. Thank you so much. All the best. Take care and stay healthy. |
| James | Hey Wolf, thanks so much for your question and for listening to the show. We absolutely appreciate it. As far as caring for a NATO, I keep it super simple. I basically treat it like a tool nylon that it is. So not unlike a heavy duty backpack. If it gets dirty or soaked with sweat or something like that, rinse it out and leave it to dry, preferably not in direct sunlight. UV is hard on everything, especially something like nylon. So I would just say leave it to dry. Sometimes I'll roll it up in like a dish towel and squeeze it just to get some of the excess water out of it, but not without messing with its overall shape by like rolling it up into a coil or that sort of thing. Just, you know, keep the material not that stressed. That said, these things are, it's a material literally designed to take abuse. It might stink. I mean, at which point I use a really simple kind of like light duty dish soap. And I'll just rub it into the fabric, make sure it's rinsed off really well. And then again, I'll maybe squeeze it in a dish towel to dry it, and then you can hang it on a hook or a nail on the back of the door in the bathroom and just let it dry on its own. That service has never really let me down. How about you, Jason? |
| Jason | Yeah, I totally agree. The only other thing I would add is as they do tend to get frayed at the holes or at the end of the strap, just take a lighter to it. just lightly past the end of the strap or even the holes across the flame briefly, and it'll kind of remelt that nylon fuzz and kind of seal it up again for you. I think between washing it and doing that, I think that takes care of a NATO pretty well. |
| James | Yeah, and the last thing I would say that if this is a watch, you didn't mention what the watch is, but if this is a watch that came with a very expensive NATO, and you're kind of worried about it, if it makes you more comfortable, just buy a cheap NATO. Really good ones are $25. Yeah. by a cheap needle and they just wear that and that way when it is frayed to the point where you don't like the way it looks or it doesn't look clean enough or it doesn't really match the way that you want for the knit, you can kind of just option another one. And that's kind of the point of these straps is that they're kind of cheap and cheerful rather than being something you have to care for like a great pair of boots or otherwise. So thanks very much for that question, Wolf. A good one. And let's jump into one from Andrew about First Digital Cameras. |
| Andrew | Hey, James and Jason. This is Andrew from Huntsville, Alabama. I'm looking to get into digital photography, and I'm wondering if you guys have a recommendation whether a beginner should get into a DSLR system or whether a mirrorless camera is the way to go. I appreciate it, and I look forward to hearing your answer. |
| Jason | Well, thanks, Andrew, for that question. James, you're kind of our camera guru. I'm going to let you take this one start to finish here. |
| James | Andrew, so I think it just depends on what you want to spend and what your comfort level is with used equipment. In my opinion, your money, especially when you get into cameras where you have to change the lens, your money goes the furthest with the oldest platforms, that being Canon and Nikon. And if you look at some of the mirrorless options that are also full frame and have much newer lenses like Sony, the same sort of focal length and even the same sort of focal length crossed with the same relative depth of field, so that's a higher aperture number, a lower physical number, but a wider aperture, will be vastly more expensive from Sony than it would be from a company that's been producing the lens for a very long time, like a Canon or a Nikon. If I had to go out and buy a digital camera today, I would recommend buying a simple Canon or a simple Nikon, something a with Canon. and you have a ton to go on. That said, if you would rather go brand new with a kit lens, I think you can go really well with a crop sensor, you know, kind of mirrorless camera like an A6000 series. There's four cameras, I believe, in that range from the 6000 through the 6300 and the 6500. Uh, I think those are lovely. I have one of those 6,500 is a great camera. Um, it just isn't full frame and it depends on how deeply you want to get into cameras, whether or not that will matter. The last thing that our reference for anyone that wants to look into getting a camera is, uh, whatever you're choosing, literally anything that you're choosing, please just go online and watch a couple of videos and read a few reviews of like a Ryko GR3. Um, because I think people instantly buy way deeper into the camera world than they need to. They buy into DSLRs despite the fact that they have no real intention of needing the other lenses. And they buy into heavy cameras that have, you know, giant sensors and are big to lug around. And then the camera gets in the way of taking the pictures. And if you look at something like the Ricoh GR3, there's several versions of the GR. So if you don't even need the higher resolution, go with something cheaper. But like the GR3 is so much camera in such a small package, that's really where I've been pointing people lately in terms of like first camera. It's less expensive than what you'd see from the Sony RX100s, which are fantastic cameras, fantastic tiny cameras at that. But they get more expensive. They're more than $1,000 in Canada. and they'll cost you to get into that world. Whatever you're looking at, just throw in the Ricoh GR3, the Fujifilm X100 series, the T, the F, et cetera. These are great cameras where you don't even have to worry about lenses and they're small enough, especially with the GR3, they're small enough where you could put them in a pocket and then you just have it with you. And it's vastly better than most cell phone cameras, certainly almost all cell phone cameras for someone who knows what they're doing. And you can take a wrist shot with them. You could take a picture of your family with them. You could take a picture of the Roman Coliseum with them. There's a lot you can do with these cameras without spending an insane amount of money or buying into a system that maybe you don't actually need. That's all. So consider the outcomes. And Andrew, if that's too varied of a question, just send me an email. I have... It's an email I get fairly frequently, so I'm happy to regurgitate even more information your way if that's helpful. But thank you so much for the question, and good luck with whatever you choose, and I hope it's a hobby that you find rewarding. Next up, we've got one from Jeremy, and he's asking a pretty straightforward question for us. |
| Jeremy | Hi guys, this is Jeremy in Texas. Simple question for you, Omega Seamaster or Black Bay 58? Thanks. |
| James | Wow, seven second question. This I respect. |
| Jason | I respect this. That's amazing. Yeah. That's amazing. Very simple question. Um, it's, it is a very straightforward question as well. And, um, it's a tough one. I mean, both of those watches are extremely well built, very high quality, kind of similar price range. Um, you know, the, the typical advice for, for anybody that, that sends us the question of which one to get is, uh, you know, get the one that you want or get the one that speaks to you and that you have the budget for. But I think the nuance of this question is, um, which one would we get each of us and For me, you know, I have several Submariners, both Tudor and Rolex that I enjoy quite a bit. So I think in this case, I would get the Seamaster because it's such a different looking watch than kind of the Rolex Tudor DNA of the Black Bay 58, even though that's a fantastic watch. I think having spent some time with the latest generation Seamaster 300 meter, piece with the ceramic bezel and that beautiful wave dial and the nice rubber strap. I kind of like that watch, other than the helium release valve. I think it's a really unique, modern, wonderful piece, so that'd be my choice. How about you? You just spent some time with the Black Bay 58. |
| James | I did, yeah, with the new Navy Blue. Jeremy, so in short, my answer is the BB-58, but it's not because there's any drawback to the Omega. The Omega, It's more tech forward. I think of the two, it has the better movement. It has a more interesting kind of tech forward movement. They're really gorgeous. But my taste in Seamasters is sword hands and thin. So 2254s, you know, like a nice thin dive watch with sword hands. The skeleton hands have never really spoken to me. That's not in any way a detraction from the quality of the product, just a personal taste. And like Jason said, it sounded like you were asking what we would pick specifically. not which one is necessarily better. On the other hand, the BB-58 Navy Blue is borderline pretty close to a perfect watch, except that it's more money than I would prefer to spend on a watch these days. And that's a moving target. If my financial scenario maybe changed or if I felt I really needed another dive watch in my life. which I suppose is how you... It's not so much that I don't... That you do or don't have the money for, but it's kind of like how you allocate the money based on what you think you need. And when I own almost exclusively dive watches, it's a lot easier to say like, this is beautiful, I had it for three days and I really liked it, but I don't need it. If you ask me in the long term, do I think that I will own a BB 58 Navy Blue in the future? Absolutely. I just don't need one right now. I don't need another dive watch currently. I'm attempting to show some self-control in that scenario. But it is borderline like a perfect, simple, straightforward, everyday dive watch. It's just the right size for my wrist. I understand if people prefer watches larger or smaller or whatever, it's very much a subjective kind of qualifier, but it's thin. It's not that big lug-to-lug. It's just the right case size. I think the blue is gorgeous. And I think, you know, certainly I'm on record at this point, several thousand words about this watch. I like it a lot. And if Omega decides to go back 15 years and make us another 2254 with sword hands, a nice thin case, maybe even in titanium, let's have this discussion again. Thanks very much, Jeremy. That's a great question. And kudos on seven seconds. |
| Jason | All right. We've got one here from Neil, who has a very specific question about a book that we talk about quite a bit. |
| James | Oh, one thing, one thing I will put into this question. There are some spoilers for people who haven't read Shadow Divers yet. It's a really fun part of the book if you haven't read it. So if your intention is to read it, you've bought it. It's sitting at home on your table and you just haven't gotten to it yet. Do yourself a favor and skip this question. It's a perfectly fair question. I think it's an interesting question. Uh, but jump ahead a few minutes. Um, the, uh, the next question is about a rato dive watch. Uh, so jump ahead until you hear us talking about a rato dive watch, uh, because I think you, you might appreciate being able to read, uh, the scenario that Neil has a question about, uh, with a fresh mind. I know that I would, so it's not so much a spoiler warning because we're not giving anything specific away about the book. Uh, but there is, uh, an, an ex an exciting sort of sequence that, uh, Neil is asking a question about it. I'm sure that we will divulge too much information in our answer. So if your plan was to read this book, jump ahead a little bit. |
| Jeremy | Hi, James and Jason. My question is for you or any of your listeners who read Shadow Divers, which is a great book. When Chatterton had to take off his tank and hold it in front of him to get through that very small space to go to the electrical room to try and identify the U-boat he was on. It kept going through my mind. Why didn't Kohler have a spare tank and hand it to him so that he could have two tanks in that small little area? Did that go through anybody else's mind? for preparation in a dangerous position like that. Thanks so much. |
| Jason | Wow, Neil, this is great. This is like a TGN book club here. Very specific discussion. Obviously a book that we've talked about quite a bit. We both love. We've never really gotten into the specifics about it, which is kind of cool to get this question. So it's been quite a while for me since I've read this book. James, you read it more recently, but the gist of this is that When John Chatterton's squeezing through a very tight space in the U-869 submarine to reach a different compartment, he has to remove his dive tank and pass it through the opening so that he himself can fit through. Now, as I understand it and from experience, you know, when you do that, you can keep the regulator in your mouth using the longer hose. So you're still breathing and then you pass the tank through and shimmy through and then redon the tank to swim around. First of all, you know, the question about whether, why Kohler didn't pass him another tank, uh, just from my perspective, typically these tech divers are operating as solo divers. They isn't much of a buddy system going on for reasons I think were probably explained in that book and other tech diving type books. Um, the, the risk of getting two guys in a tight space with a lot of silt and tight quarters can be even more dangerous than just being self reliant. Um, but I also think, uh, You know, this was a very exploratory situation where these guys knew the risks involved and Chatterton, I think, made a very calculated risk about what he had to do to accomplish what he wanted to do. And I think to introduce that additional level of complexity for having a second guy in there and additional tanks would have potentially, you know, multiplied the risk to a unacceptable level. That's kind of my first take on it. What do you think, James? You read it more recently. |
| James | Yeah, in my mind, the second tank existed, it was at their ascent line from the submarine back up to the boat. And I think the book goes quite in depth into this, the kind of mindset of Chatterton as a sort of perfectionist, as someone who understood the risks and the rest of it. And obviously, I think that you know, it's kind of, it's kind of like saying, why wouldn't, why wouldn't Alex Honnold have a little backpack that has a rope and a little bit of hardware in it just in case. And I don't think, I think that for normal people, um, Neil, I'm going to include you in that as I'm including myself in that for the, the average person reading this book, there's a lot of kind of like superhero stuff happening, especially if you've even dove just a couple of times, you understand that the difference between me putting on a scuba tank and John Chatterton putting on a scuba tank is, me walking up to the Donwall or the nose or something like that. And Honnold walking up to one of those routes, right? Like there's a different wavelength. And I think that there's an acceptance of risk in there that would preclude the idea of just let's just bring all the tanks that we could possibly breathe. Also, physiologically, there would be a big problem if you had an issue in that other room and decided to switch from one tank to another. Because that one tank on the bottom, and I'm more than willing to have this wrong, and maybe Paul Skirfield's listening, or someone who has more information, we can do the actual numbers if people really want it. But if you think of the dive profile of breathing two tanks, by the time you decide to leave, let's say he doesn't die, he uses the second tank and it saves his life, he then moves to the line and gets his third tank, You're going to have to stage that second tank on the wreck. You're going to have to have other bottles on the way up, all staged out, assuming that you breathe that much air at that much depth. And it's like a compounding problem. If you spend more time at that depth to save your life, you then have to save all this additional time on the line to keep that kind of cascade effect in play without hurting yourself. So I think unless you planned to need the second tank at the bottom, which I don't think guys like Kohler and Chatterton were ever going to do, I'm contextualizing or editorializing a little bit here. But unless they planned long before they got off the boat that they would need the tank at the bottom, then you have to plan your route back up so carefully. Jason, that makes sense, right? |
| Jason | Yeah, and I think to stage an additional bottle or pass an additional bottle through into the electrical room, um, you know, whether or not he removes one tank, swims through holding his breath, uh, and then receives the other tank inside, breathes that down, then comes back out, puts his original tank on. At some point, you're still passing lots of tanks back and forth in addition to, as you mentioned, staging all of these deco bottles all the way down the line and all of the additional time that is required to decompress from a longer dive that would be caused by breathing that additional tank in this tight quarters, which you have to take into account. We're offshore the East coast of the U S the sea conditions can change. You can't be spending that many more hours underwater while you've got people up on a boat, bobbing around in a storm that might brew up, et cetera, et cetera. I just think, um, what they did is they took a calculated risk that Um, was probably the simplest solution for the scenario. |
| James | Yep. So I agree. Uh, neat question, Neil, for sure. Uh, zero discredit of the question. I love having a more in-depth conversation about anything that went through in, uh, in shadow divers. I, I so enjoyed my reread of it a few months back. Um, but yeah, we appreciate the question and, uh, let's get to one from James about, uh, a rattle dive watch. |
| James from California | Hey, James and Jason, this is James calling from beautiful and sunny Southern California. I'm calling with a question that is a little bit different, but I hope you guys can shed some light on it. In light of everything that's happening, all the reckoning that's happening in both of your countries and around the world, with respect to race and the histories of racial discrimination, I was wondering what you think the watch community might be able to do with regard to Rado's beautiful, but unfortunately named Captain Cook dive watch. Now, as you guys may know, Captain James Cook uh, was a member of the British Royal Navy that was really responsible for colonizing and brutally colonizing many different countries in the Pacific Islands, um, and elsewhere. And I think that this is really an opportunity to create a dialogue as to whether we should be glorifying such folks like Captain Cook or really, uh, vilifying them for the deeds that they did that really contributed to a lot of pain that is still felt today. It's a different question, I know, but I hope you guys can take this question and create some kind of dialogue. All right. Thank you. Big fan of the show. Keep doing what you guys are doing. |
| Jason | Well, thanks for the question, James. You know, such a complex issue relates so far beyond watches and not just to the recent events here, but I think it goes to a larger point about naming anything in this world from an elementary school to a statue to a library. to a wristwatch after a person. People are complex individuals, very accomplished people, have turned out to be less than perfect in their personal lives, or all of us have our flaws, and I'm not saying this to apologize for Captain Cook, and I do recognize the history of his voyages and his colonization of various places, I'm sure Rado didn't consider all of this when they actually named this watch back in, what, 1960 or 62, or more recently when they re-released it, and certainly maybe every brand, watches or otherwise, should do that from now on, and I suspect more will. I mean, we've seen some recent upheavals and changes with sports teams' names and statues coming down, and also kind of new awareness around various famous historical figures from Teddy Roosevelt to Winston Churchill to you know Thomas Jefferson. So I think you're right there is a worldwide reckoning around anything that's named after or glamorizes or gives historical credence to any of these figures. I think I'm not sure what the watch industry can do about this. I think what you just did calling into a podcast about watches is something that that anybody can do. And I think we all need to do. And if you certainly don't, uh, approve of a watch name or, or some aspect of its history, whether it was, uh, an IWC big pilot that is modeled after something that, uh, the German pilots wore in world war two or something along those lines, you don't have to buy it. You can post on forums or call into podcasts and kind of be, uh, be yourself and make your personal statement about these things. Uh, I think we, as, Podcast hosts will certainly not shy away from these issues and we can give light to your question and that sort of thing. But I'm not sure what Rado will do. And I don't think we're actually going to get in touch with Rado about it. I think something similar came up recently in that someone posted a picture of a Doxa shark hunter, the black dial version of their dive watch. And somebody had said, shouldn't this watch be renamed because sharks are being killed in huge numbers all over the world? It made me think that it could be flipped on its head and that a company like Doxa could turn that watch into an awareness raising tool for the plight of sharks around the world. Yeah. But, you know, complex issue. Thanks for the question. We don't really have any specific solutions or answers here, but it's an interesting point to raise for sure. |
| James | Yeah, no, I think it's a fair question without a doubt, James. And I think it's also a cool watch with a dumb name. You know, by accident back in the day, I remember I was doing a vlog for a blog to watch and it was at Baselworld the year they launched the Captain Cook. And I was tired. You know, I'd been sleep deprived and the rest of it. I was on, you know, 40 coffees by this point. And I call it the Captain Hook. And that's probably because At least in my public school education, we didn't learn anything about Captain Cook. I couldn't tell you very much about him, short of what I would have to learn if I went and read it from his Instagram or his... His Instagram. His Wikipedia page or something like that. And yeah, I agree it's a dumb name. And my guess is it's more related to the context within which some of these names are still held. which is non-holistic. So when a brand is looking for, you know, someone who ventured to new worlds and took on adventure and kind of through the confinement of the known quantities of life behind them and set out on these big adventures, they pick these names. And right or wrong, it definitely makes sense that they should have done, you know, maybe more research on Cook and what he got up to. And certainly we've seen this, the similar thing happened with statues. And like Jason said, like almost anything you can name anyone, uh, almost anything that you can name after somebody, uh, can come under some fire at some point. And, uh, and yeah, I think it's, it's, it's kind of like the, the sports team thing. There's a lot of sports teams that have pretty questionable names. Um, certainly if you jump to mind, I'm not a great sports fan, so it's, it's harder for me to recall one immediately. Uh, but, uh, I think as long as we're moving in a process of limiting this rather than growing it, that that's that's the right thing to do. So, yeah, hopefully, Rado, when they assess their, you know, model line looking forward, they could maybe just give us a simple name. Otherwise, you know, the our diver, you know, hey, you know what? On the very slim, incredibly slim chance that Rado is listening. Let TGN name your dive watch. Yeah. Feel free. we can we can set up a little pole or something like that, and we can we can get you a solid new name. Everybody listening is probably a little bit too deep into dive watches that that comes with the comes with the crew. So if you'd like a hand, possibly just I think Captain Hook would be pretty fun. You don't have to change one letter. The watch is kind of a swashbuckling appeal. Captain Crunch But yeah, so James, I appreciate the question. Absolutely. I don't disagree with the sentiment in any way. It's one of those things that I think will slowly disappear with the cycle of time rather than being, you know, a sort of active reference to violence or otherwise on the part of the name itself. So thanks very much for calling in. And yeah, if we hear back from Rado, we'll be sure to share that. All right, so this next one is from Avram, who has a question about a problem he's having with some straps. |
| Avram | Hi, James and Jason. This is Avram from Columbia, South Carolina. I go by Aristadevelopment on Instagram. I have a question regarding straps, particularly for my Helios C4 and my Zyn 556i. I find that many of my leather straps rub up against the sharp edges of the case, creating a bit of wear at that area. And I was wondering if y'all had found any ways to alleviate this, maybe using thinner straps? I've tried curved spring bars, and I haven't had much luck with that. So please let me know if you come across anything. I appreciate the help. I love the show as always. Thanks so much. |
| Jason | Well, thanks for that, Avram. You know, I personally haven't had too much of this issue with my watches. I think curved spring bars would have been my first choice. James, you have actively worn a Helios for quite a while, and I'm guessing that's the same thing with a Rolex on a leather strap as well. What do you think about this? |
| James | Yeah, I've had this exact issue on my Halio C4s and also my Explorer 2 does it even worse, just because there's not... So what he's describing, for anyone who can't picture it, isn't where the edges of the strap meet the lug, it's where the center of the strap meets the curvature of the case. Right. And there's just kind of a sharp edge there, so when the strap rotates on the spring bar, it just drags against that edge and leaves this little mark. And I've had this, it bothers me a lot, especially on like a thicker strap, it's not going to work. And in the past, Avram, what I've done is actually just taken a very thin screwdriver and kind of worked the hole of the strap a little bit, just gently, kind of stretching it a little bit to thin the material between the top of that spring bar hole, you know, the actual sleeve that accepts the spring bar and the leather itself. But in many cases, they're just watches that were maybe not designed for all straps, you know, where the tolerance between the spring bar and the internal case edge is just very tight. So, yeah, I mean, I feel your pain on that one. And the result for me was I took a handful of my straps and just kind of thinned out or stretched the spring bar hole ever so slightly to gain it some compression. between that outer edge and the spring bar sleeve and the strap. So it's a good solution. Good luck with that. |
| Unknown | Yeah. |
| James | Next up, we've got one from Miguel, who's asking about watches of the decade. |
| Miguel | Hi there, James and Jason. I'm Miguel from Portugal and Europe. Big fan of the show. And I would like to challenge you both to pick a watch that you think that in 30 years will become like the perfect example of a watch designed in the last decade. When I think of this, immediately it comes to my mind the Omega Seamaster 300M because of the ceramic wave dial. But I would love to hear your thoughts and your picks. And yeah, that's it. Thank you very much and take care. |
| Jason | Well, Miguel, thanks for that question. I have two words for you. Apple Watch. Yeah. I mean, I realize you were probably after a different sort of answer, more of a mechanical or luxury type watch. But I do think, jokes aside, that a watch like the Apple Watch or something along the lines of a Tag Heuer connected, if you're going to move into kind of more of our area of enthusiasm, or any of these sort of higher end connected watches that the companies are scrambling to produce, would be very indicative of this decade. I think the Seamaster 300 is a good one, although I do think that its sort of design overall is more of a 90s. Certainly the use of ceramic is of this decade more than the last. But I tend to think that, you know, when we look back in 30 years at watches from the 2010s, the connected type watch is going to be the story that people remember. |
| James | Yeah, Miguel, I would tend to agree with Jason. I would say the only exceptions is if you're going to discount or not include something like the Apple Watch. If you imagine a magazine in 20 years or 30 years or whatever, making a timeline where various watches kind of highlight the aesthetic, you know, maybe a mid-century Patek and then a Rolex Submariner, and then you move into the 60s and the 70s and that kind of thing. And by the time you get to the 2010s, if it's not going to be something like an Apple watch, which I absolutely think it should be just by volume and presence and impact, I think it would be one of the really, really avant-garde independents. So I think it's an MB&F, it's a Richard Mill, it's something in that realm because that idea didn't really exist before the courts crisis. And then you had these guys that went to school for an industry that kind of didn't exist anymore. or was on, you know, was dying and needed to find a new venue, a new platform, a new pace. And you have these guys like Kari and, you know, Steven from, like, Steven Forsey. And these guys pushed forwards into a new realm and kind of defined even some of the 2000s, but definitely in the 2010s. And for me, it would be a Richard Mill, a group of Forsey, a Kari. You know, there's now there's the cool thing about this is it's now so big that I can't list them all, right? Right. Yeah. 10 years ago, you could pretty much only list a few, and a lot of them were people's names, not yet really known as brands with a capital B. So yeah, I think for me, it would either be something like the Apple Watch, which is absolutely the most dominant concept of a time piece, Uh in a really long time and and if you want to discredit that or or kind of stay more in the enthusiast realm Then it would be one of these really high profile, uh independents for sure Yeah, good point All right. |
| Jason | Let's move on to a question from mark about the latest timex. |
| Mark | Hey james and jason mark, uh in santa cruz I stumbled on a new watch. Um from timex this week. It's a 36 millimeter. It's the mk1 mechanical They're dubbed it their first archive mechanical release, suggesting there'll be others. I just wanted to get your thoughts on it, maybe in comparison to the Hamilton Field khaki, and your thoughts in general on Timex and some of their releases over the past year, which I think have been pretty interesting. The Cues, which obviously aren't mechanical, but also I think they did a cool watch with Todd Snyder called the Liquor Store. They just seem to be kind of re-entering the enthusiast space a little bit, and I think they certainly are a brand that's a gateway watch for a lot of folks. So anyway, thanks for taking the questions. |
| James | Hey, Mark. Thanks very much for the question. We appreciate it. Absolutely. And as far as the Timex scenario goes, I would agree. I think that this is a brand that has always kind of had a footnote in people's watch lives, but maybe is now more interested in offering solutions for people who are deeper into their watch passion. And the Mark I looks great. I think it's a really solid, similar sort of platform as the Hamilton. of operate and exist like a $1,000 watch or a $500 watch. I'm looking at Canadian prices here that would put them at less than $100 American. And that's a great value, but that's also... That doesn't really make them a competitor for the Hamilton as much as it might make the aluminum 40 millimeter Mark I a competitor for something like a Seiko 5. And I think as long as you contextualize that space, Uh, you're, you're going to be very happy with the product. I think they look really good. Uh, you know, this is in the same kind of aesthetic space as a marathon or the Hamilton. And, and, you know, you're not really short on options there, but it is nice to see Timex making things that are both mechanical and sitting at a super, super competitive price point. |
| Jason | Yeah. I don't know much to add other than I love seeing Timex kind of reemerge as a, as a brand that people are interested in because it's a, such a storied name. I'd like to see them. even gain more momentum and start doing even more interesting watches, I think this is a good example of that. And I also think with its price, and its aesthetic, that this is, it's kind of, it feels right for what you get, and for what this watch represents. A simple, no-nonsense field watch, and it'd be a great beater, a great first watch, a great gift watch, a great travel watch. Timex is doing some cool things, and I want to see them carry on with that. So thanks for the question. |
| James | I agree, the cues are really sweet. They're super fun in person. I like that they're quartz. I'm excited to maybe eventually see a cue that has Indiglo, which would really kind of speak to me and my roots in watch enthusiasm. But Mark, that's a solid question. And if, hey, if anyone out there listening picks up one of these Mark Ones or a cue or whatever and has some impressions to share, the email is always available, thegreatnadoatgmail.com. We'd love to hear what you think of it. I've been really impressed by the cue, but I haven't had the chance to see the Mark Ones in person. Jason, what do you say we take one more? Sure, let's do it. |
| Jason | Sander from the Netherlands has a question about modern movements. |
| Sander | Hey guys, it's Sander here speaking to you from the Netherlands. I have a question for you regarding watch movements. Recently I've noticed that Seiko updated all their new 35 series movements to 70 hours power reserve. Most other brands with in-house movements already had a similar power reserve, but now it really seems that this is becoming available at a relatively low price point. But the watches that I have with ETA or even Solita 300 moon movements all max out around 40 hours. Also the magnetic resistance of Solita or ETA movement seems to be pretty low. I personally have had multiple watches start to run really fast because they were magnetized and I don't even work in a particularly high magnetism environment. So my question is, do you think it's still worth it to buy a watch with an ETA or Solita movement? And do you think that these companies will soon have to come out with updated versions of their movements? |
| Jason | Thank you. Well, thanks for that question, Sander. I think what we'll see with movement technology going forward, and we're already seeing it, is a kind of a trickle-down effect. I think in terms of EDA itself, which is of course is a Swatch Group company, we're seeing that long power reserve, high anti-magnetism movement, which I think they call the Powermatic trickle down. It's not, you're not seeing it in Tissot and Longine and Hamilton and whether or not they start selling that to outside companies outside of the Swatch Group remains to be seen. But I do think that that technology will start to pop up in other brands like Salida. And I'm sure as you've mentioned, Seiko is coming out with longer power reserves in their movements, whether or not that's the right thing for you or whether, you know, you should continue buying the existing, you know, 2824 or Salida. similar movements. It's really a matter of priorities. It sounds like you've had some issues with magnetism, and that might be a reason for you to seek out a watch that has higher anti-magnetic qualities. I've never personally had much trouble with magnetism issues, and I don't really care much about power reserve. I tend to wear watches for several days at a time, then put them away for a week or two, so I don't really... Power reserve has never really been an important thing for me. But again, you know, any watch that you buy, has to align with your own priorities. So if that's water resistance or that's anti-magnetism or power reserve, those should be boxes that you tick when you're making that purchase. But I do think that that technology that you're talking about, the power reserve and magnetism protection, will eventually trickle down and you'll start to see that in the next several years, I think, with other brands. |
| James | Yeah, so my input on this would be a little bit different. The thing to consider with Seiko is move to 70-hour power reserve on something like a 6R35. It's really nice to have, but you're not necessarily comparing overly equal movements. The Salidas and the Etas tick at 4 Hz, 28,800 VPH, and Seiko ticks at 21,600 VPH. So you're looking at just an overall slower rate, 3 Hz versus 4 Hz, 25% more power. to be found or reserved to be found in a relatively similar setup of a mainspring. So while 70 hours is more than, say, the 38 to 42 you'd get from an ETA or a Solita, it's going to come at the cost of accuracy, typically. I think a lot of us in the audience have experienced this. I certainly have. ETAs typically keep better time than anything I've experienced from a Seiko 7S or 4R or 6R movement. With the maybe only exception being the 6R35 in my current Seiko, but that's a brand new watch. I have to see how it kind of settles and breaks in. It's keeping excellent time currently. But if you look at a 2824 or a 2892 or something like that, those are easily cost certified movements. They can be adjusted in several positions by a qualified watchmaker and keep excellent time. And at least the direct feedback I've had from watchmakers over something like a 7S movement, which is very different from a 6R, but still, is that they aren't capable of that level of accuracy. So it's one of those things like with a car's engine, do you want more power or more torque or more fuel mileage or less vibration or that sort of thing? It's the same sort of thing with movements where if you're buying into something like a 20, 24 or even a Salida, which is, you know, based on a similar architecture, uh, you're buying into past reliability. Um, and, and, and it's easily a known quantity and the Saco is also a known quantity, but kind of a different quantity, uh, where, yeah, you get the additional, uh, power reserve, uh, but it comes at a lower rate. And certainly the power Matic, uh, models also ticket a slower rate and that's how they get, that's part of how they, are able to manufacture a longer power reserve for the watches in the first place. So all of that is considered it. What I would say that would be most important to me would be anti-magnetism. And there's several different ways that brands are approaching that case protection, you know actual components made out of materials that can't be magnetized as easily. And I would say that a lot of that comes down to what your comfort zone is. It costs 10 or $20 to buy a simple watch demagnetizer. And you could always do that route if that was more to your preference. If not, then yeah, maybe you need to look into a watch with a little bit more technical grade of movement. Good one. But Sander, I appreciate that question. I hope that's not too much information just to kind of, you know, shoot out at you. But, you know, all movements are not created equally. And in this case, they kind of both go in different directions as far as what's needed. And I like a nice four hertz movement. I'm not that concerned about power reserve in general, like Jason, I'll wear a watch for a few days, take it off and not wear it for a very long time, a week or more. So it's never really been something where I ever pick up a watch and expect it to still be running. It's actually kind of weird with this Seiko, where a few times I would pick it up and be like, this thing is still going? Yeah. Goodness. Yeah. Because 70 is a lot longer in terms of days, like 70 is a lot longer than 40. |
| Jason | Yeah, I've got that Blancpain with a hundred hour power reserve. That thing's just insane. I mean, it's, I don't even know how many days that is. It's like, it just goes on and on. Yeah, it's crazy. |
| James | Yeah, for sure. Yeah. A little, little over four days. That's rad. So, uh, Sander, great, uh, fun question. Really fun thing to kind of think about it. It really starts to connect back into motors and things like that for me. So I appreciate that, but, uh, If you have a question for us, we got to almost everyone on our list this week. If you sent us one very recently, it'll be in the August episode, which we will drop kind of as a surprise under the new methodology. But if you have a question for us, we really, we absolutely love them. Please send them to us. thegreatnado.gmail.com, record them as a voice memo on your phone, try and keep them under a minute if you can, and send them in and we'll get them in the next show. And if not that, then the one after that, but we will get to the questions, we promise. It's great. And from, yeah, both Jason and I, it's a treat to see these pop into the email and to hear all your voices and to get these perspectives on all sorts of stuff. Stay tuned for the August episode, probably in, you know, roughly a month's time, something like that. Jason, how do you feel about some final notes? |
| Jason | Sure, I'll kick it off because this one that I found relates back to Neil's question about shadow divers. I was kind of doing a little research into what he was talking about since I hadn't read the book in a while. was looking around the internet and I came across a video on YouTube called Shadow Diver on the U869 narrated by John Chatterton. And this is about a 11 minute video of video footage that Chatterton actually shot back in the 1990s of one of his dives on the U-boat, on the U869. And it's pretty amazing. I mean, certainly the video quality isn't great. There's a lot of silt. The lighting is pretty poor and the video quality, you know, is 1990s era, so not particularly high resolution. But to hear him sort of calmly talking over this very risky, daring, death-defying feat of diving inside of a sunken submarine at 230 feet below the Atlantic is pretty surreal to kind of sit and watch. You know, you're sort of witnessing this historic, very amazing feat. You know, for those of you that dive, you might get the willies kind of watching them get snagged on stuff and see all the silt get kicked up. And even if you're not a diver, you can certainly relate to what that must be like and kind of gives you a glimpse into the world of a extremely accomplished tech diver doing something pretty amazing. So, yeah, it was hosted by or posted by Duck Diver Productions on YouTube. It's called Shadow Diver on the U869, narrated by none other than John Chatterton. |
| James | That's so cool. I, uh, I remember back when I was first getting into diving, I read Shadow Divers. Uh, I was maybe, you know, five dives in past my certification, something like that. And I watched a couple videos of John moving through, um, the Doria. Oh yeah. And navigating, he had these little strobes he would leave on the stairwells. Yeah. And you know, it's, it's, it's something that they talk about in shadow divers, but then to see it physically where you have to entirely reorient what up and down is in something like a stairwell, it's one thing to do it in a hallway or a ballroom, an open space, but like a stairwell describes it space all within itself. The stairs move in a certain way, they turn in a certain way. And when that's like upside down and at a off kilter angle, yeah. It's really an incredible mindset that's able to penetrate that structure and move freely within that space without that causing any sort of like uh, you know, without getting lost essentially, like even if you set the lights up and he's got these lights and he's, he's running a camera the whole time. And then, yeah, there's this narration on top of it. He's just a wonderful, wonderful diver for sure. |
| Jason | Yeah. And as I'm looking at the page that has this video hosted next to it says up next and it says Andrea Doria, 1991 with John Chatterton. So, uh, it's a 14 minute video. You can watch that one next. Um, It's funny, you talk about, uh, you know, navigating these tight, tight and very disorienting spaces. And one of the comments he makes during the U-boat dive is that he said, Oh, you know, U-boats are pretty simple. It's, it's just a long tube. So you're either going one direction or you're going the other. And as he says that you just see this absolute tangle of pipes and wiring and debris and silt and tiny little openings. And it's like, yeah, it's easy for you to say, you know, so it's wild, pretty crazy. Yeah. |
| James | Yeah, a special mindset for sure. And that's highlighted in the book. There's your there's your two hundred and fiftieth thousandth recommendation to read Shadow Diaries. Yeah, for sure. On this episode alone. Yeah. OK, so my final notes this week is from Expedition Portal, and it's a report from crossing the deserts of Kazakhstan via a really sweet. Toyota guys can correct me if I have this wrong. But I'm pretty sure I got it right. It's an FJ40, a vintage FJ40. And it's just it is just the type of adventure that I would so quickly go on these days if I could. It's the one that like I feel like I dream about at night. And, you know, they're just crossing a middle of nowhere scenario in a reliable old truck. It's really beautiful. The photography is pretty incredible. The truck is like It's the coolest thing ever. Uh, you know, it's all, I mean, these are, this is an old vehicle. This isn't like they, you know, a brand new Wrangler or something like that, or a new Land Rover, but, uh, it's this really great, uh, you know, kind of journey. It's a, it's a, it's a really fun story, um, about crossing, uh, Kazakhstan and the people who they did it and who they met and some of the wildlife and what the scenario was. It's a, it's a straightforward thing, but I really enjoyed it. I've read it a couple of times at this point, just kind of like, You know, yearning for that, uh, that like edge of the world sort of thing. And this might be a little bit colder than I would normally trend towards, uh, in my, in my edge of the world pursuits, but man, uh, what a cool thing. And, and kudos to, um, to Corinne who, who wrote it and did the trip and to expedition portal for posting it. I don't, I don't definitely don't want to give anything away. I think everyone should go click this link in, uh, in the show notes. You know, an adventure most proper. |
| Jason | Oh, it looks great. I love the photos. I'm going to enjoy reading that. Yeah. All right. Well, that was a, that was a beast of an episode. Um, but you know, thanks again to everybody who sent the questions in. We really appreciate everybody. Um, with the really high quality recordings, the audio sounds good on these. So good. So proud. The, the, the, the sub one minute questions, everybody's kind of sticking to that. We really appreciate that as well. And just keep them coming. We, this is my favorite episode of the month. I look forward to it every time. And, uh, we really appreciate that. So we'll see you again for, for Q and a in August, but, uh, We will have a couple of episodes before that as well. |
| James | So, and as always, thank you so much for listening. You can hit the show notes by hodingy.com or via the feed for this episode. For more details, you can follow us on Instagram at Jason Heaton and at Jay Stacey, and you can follow the show at the Grenado. Should you have any questions for us, please write the Grenado at gmail.com. And of course, please keep sending in those voice memos. We love them. We really appreciate them and we'll keep using them. Please subscribe and review wherever you find your podcasts and music throughout as ever is Ciesza by JazzArr via the free music archive. |
| Jason | And we leave you with this quote from Sir Ernest Shackleton, who wrote, a man must shape himself to a new mark directly after the old one goes to ground. |