The Grey Nato - Episode 12 - "One Watch???"
Published on Tue, 05 Jul 2016 09:02:13 -0400
Synopsis
Jason Heaton and James Stacey discuss the idea of having to choose just one watch to wear forever if they could only keep a single timepiece. They each provide their top choices and rationale, considering factors like durability, interesting design, versatility, and sentimental value. Jason also interviews Hamilton Powell, CEO of the pre-owned watch seller Crown & Caliber, who shares insights into the vintage and pre-owned watch markets, authenticating and servicing timepieces, and his own collecting journey. The hosts wrap up by recommending media related to the extreme sport of cave diving.
Links
Transcript
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| Jason Heaton (host) | Welcome to episode 12 of The Graynado, a loose discussion of travel, adventure, diving, gear, and most certainly watches. I'm Jason Heaton. |
| James Stacey (host) | And I'm James Stacy. Today we're going to do something a bit different. We received a thought-provoking question from a listener, and this one simple query is actually going to be our main topic for this episode. So Scott kindly wrote in and asked, if both of you could pick one watch to be your only watch forever, which would get the nod and why? So this is kind of like a perennial question. I've heard this many times. I've been asked it on Instagram and in emails before. And, uh, I think it's fun to do as a conversation, I think as a one-sided thing, it's a little bit dry. And then as an added mix, um, while Jason and I generally can see kind of a mass idea, like a notes. for the show, we've separated our notes. So I actually don't know what watch Jason selected or why. And he doesn't know what I've selected. And we haven't chatted about it beforehand. So, you know, Scott, this is a great question. And I'm really excited to, to dig in on it. So I think it's fair to limit this hypothetical exercise to answers that are realistically within the realm of what Jason and I would actually spend on a watch. So it's not really like one lottery watch. It's more of the, you know, one watch that we would actually buy and then wear forever. Sound about right, Jason? |
| Jason Heaton (host) | Yeah, that's kind of my take on it as well. I mean, I think, you know, funny thing is I think the types of watches you and I gravitate towards are generally not the $50,000, you know, Patek Chronograph or something like that. Anyway, so I think we're probably going to be pretty aligned on budget and kind of type of watch, but it'll be interesting to see how this plays out. |
| James Stacey (host) | Yeah, I would expect so. And the idea that it's going to be the one watch that you wear really presents like a number of factors that you have to consider. And this would be a ludicrous question for somebody who maybe doesn't care so much about watches, like where it's an appliance or, you know, something they have because their peers all wear watches. With a watch nerd, I mean, like a huge part of this hobby is actually enjoying and getting and moving around and experiencing new watches. Um, so I mean, I think if I had to pick one, I mean, I have, I have a watch that already kind of fits the parameter, but it would be too boring to select it. And that would be my, my Explorer 2 from Rolex. Uh, I picked that watch because I really liked it. I took a long time to kind of pick it out from other various options, but I think it, it works roughly as a framework for what I would be looking for in the, the one watch discussion, because I like a GMT. I like decent water resistance. I like something that's not too big. like something that theoretically you could wear all the time in any situation. And I like a wide and you know, if you're going to have that one watch, you also have to consider like, what watch isn't isn't likely going to give me a lot of trouble as far as maintenance. And you can get a Rolex serviced quite reliably, wherever and and they're known and have a long standing history for being very robust, tough wearing, you know, ready to roll watches. And I think that's probably something that would apply importantly to this sort of a decision. So ignoring a watch that I already have because it would be boring, it is a little tempting to go with something like really expensive because it's, you know, you're only going to have one. And I'm fairly tempted by something like the Patek Philippe, the travel time. Oh, wow. Yeah. So the Aquanaut, not the chronograph, just the, you know, it has a separate hand for another time zone. to another 12 hour time zone. And then it has the pointer date. So it's the 5164A-001 on the rubber strap. That watch is never going to be out of place. And it's 120 meters water resistant, beautifully made. You're not going to run into a lot of issues as far as service goes or the quality of the movement. It's 40.8 millimeters. So the sizing is really nice. And the functionality is there. It's not a dive watch. It's not really like your traditional GMT watch, it's not giving you a 24 hour display. But but I think it has, it has like an x factor that I've always kind of loved it is, it's largely disqualified, because I don't think I would actually go and spend that much on a watch. It's just, you know, it's a, you know, given my my background, my middle class background and everything, I see a watch like that and think like, well, maybe someday, like in a lottery scenario, or if, if things went really well, sure, you could talk your way into that. But I think It would belie the purpose of this discussion, but I would be remiss not to mention that watch. |
| Jason Heaton (host) | That's a really interesting sort of first stake in the ground for me to hear from you. That wasn't even on my radar. I'm surprised you mentioned it, but I think it brings up an interesting point, and it's one of my factors or criteria if I think about a one-watch candidate. And that is, you know, there are things like the ruggedness to be able to kind of take on almost anything you can do with it, because you'd be wearing it for pretty much everything. Um, but also, I mean, there's this intangible, uh, sense of a watch that, that I was thinking about that's, that's actually quite important on my list of criteria. And that is a watch that is interesting enough that would keep me engaged for a really long time. Because if it's the only watch you're wearing, you know, as somebody that collects watches, I don't have a huge collection, but you know, like you, James, I, I'm kind of in this because I enjoy getting new stuff and kind of checking it out and wearing it for different things. But if I just had one. that that aspect of watch collecting goes away. Yeah. If you know, assuming this is a self imposed sort of life sentence of one watch. So I want something that that every time I look at it, I see something new or there's something that keeps me interested. So I you know, I can kind of see where you're coming from on that that travel time Aquanaut because it has that it has the great finishing it has the the cool dial and the interesting complication. You know, plus it's a sports watch. So yeah, I could I could get on board with that. It wouldn't be on my list, but that's an interesting first sort of foray. |
| James Stacey (host) | And as far as still being in the watch community, you could do worse than being the guy that's just always wearing an Aquanaut. Oh, you'd be the cool guy. I mean, yeah. I think they're an immensely cool watch. I personally find them to be aesthetically beautiful, and very much it's the sort of watch where it would change its personality with the strap. a look despite seeing new things that I guess you couldn't get because of this one watch sentence, I think you would still look at it and be like, gosh, I'm doing okay. I'm not hard done by here. Right. You know, it's one of the legendary names within watchmaking. I love that it's from a brand that's typically seen as a dress watch manufacturer. I think that's fair to say. It's neither a chronograph, you know, like a perpetual chronograph or something like that, nor a dress watch. But it has those, qualities to it, that sort of timelessness in the design and its agenda design. And I think there's a lot to like there. And if the budget was was not so much of an issue, I think this would have been like a serious contender for me and not something that I simply mentioned because I think it's such a really, really cool watch. Yeah. You know, do you have anything in your list that would kind of match up with that? |
| Jason Heaton (host) | Not really. And I think the reason is, is because one of another one of the factors on my list, along with something just really interesting to look at all the time is, um, I, one of my really strong factors is unobtrusiveness, uh, a watch that I don't want to necessarily say it blends in because I don't want to bland watch, but something that doesn't necessarily draw attention to itself, no matter where I find myself, I, I tend to, you know, travel a lot. And if I hate the thought, you know, I always, I remember used to read forum posts from people that would say, I'm going on vacation to Mexico, which watch should I take? Oh, leave your Rolex at home, leave your, you know, whatever it is at home and, you know, get a G Shock. And I'm like, that always defied my just my sense of who I am, you know, I want I want my one watch to be one that accompanies me anywhere I go and on all my adventures. And I think the paddock might, you know, just might, you could force some uncomfortable situations if you're sitting at a dive bar in some little town and you know, Tijuana or something like that, and you're wearing that on your wrist. So that might That might negate that one for me. I guess when you talk about something, or it doesn't line up at all with the Aquanaut, but something that kind of fits that mold of something that's interesting enough to keep me engaged, and I think it's a watch you love as well, is a Doxa. And it's the 750, the sub-750T, the GMT. |
| [pause/background noise] | Oh, yeah. |
| Jason Heaton (host) | Yeah, we've talked about it, I think, on past shows. I think it was on my Ones That Got Away show. |
| James Stacey (host) | Yeah, and it's on my list for tonight. Oh, okay. We can scratch it off my list too. I think it's just like if you, if you were going to stick in the realm of an ETA based watch, that's an absolute fave. |
| Jason Heaton (host) | Yeah. And, and you know what, you know, I had one for six months or maybe a year, I can't remember. But the thing about that watch and, and Doxa is one of those companies, the watches, they're kind of polarizing in their design. Some people look at them and just think they're ugly. It's got this weird bezel that sticks up off the case, this funky handset. If you get into them, they're the coolest watches, you know. And I think it's a watch that, especially that one with the inner rotating, you know, 24-hour scale, the no deco limit bezel, that skeletonized, oversized second hour hand, you know, it's just, it's a watch that every time you look at it from every different angle, it keeps you engaged and it's just fun, you know, especially if I had the Diving Star version, which I think is kind of the cool one. I know I think you like the Caribbean, the blue one as well, but I do. |
| James Stacey (host) | Those are the two good ones, though. The blue, orange and yellow. |
| Jason Heaton (host) | I mean, just I mean, OK, they might not be the most versatile. So, you know, if you talk about one watch, gee, can you wear it with a suit or a tuxedo? Well, no chance. I don't find myself in those situations often. So, yeah, I might not be able to wear it in those situations. But then again, maybe I would. But, you know, it's it is a watch that if you had for 10 years down the road and it's all scratched up and beat up, it's going to look better. And chances are, assuming it's rugged enough to kind of survive that long, which I think it would be, I think it's one of those watches that could sustain me for a very long time. |
| James Stacey (host) | Yeah, I would agree. I think they're a really excellent design and they have just enough additional functionality without changing the overall appeal of the Doxa Sub. Yeah. Like you still get the relative appeal of the three-hander. And it doesn't go as far into kind of a whole different thing as the chronograph. Right. I love that, like with most Doxa watches, you have all of the color options. And that blue-orange, I think I've mentioned before, that I got a chance to see it at Baselworld a couple years ago, you know, in person. And it had like an... I had an instant reaction to how, like, to having it on wrist. It's really... The appeal is really strong. Yeah. And it was an easy contender for this list. You know, it has a functionality, the GMT functionality that I love. And yeah, sure, maybe it wouldn't work with a suit, but again, I guess I would just not wear the watch or I'd put it in my pocket if I was really that worried about it. |
| [agreement/acknowledgment noise] | Yeah. |
| James Stacey (host) | And just be, you know, adopt some, you know, kind of presumptuous line about how when I go out to some nice party, I don't wear a watch because I'm not worried about time. And then make everybody else feel bad for wearing their JLCs and Pateks and such, so. |
| Jason Heaton (host) | You know, this brings up another point, I think, with this watch and maybe the Aquanaut to a certain degree is uh, another one of my criteria for a one watch, um, is relatively uncomplicated. I think at most, and some of the candidates I have have at most a GMT function. Um, chronographs I think are cool. There's a place for them. I've got a couple of them. I know you do too, but, um, at most, I think I would go as far as a GMT. I think it's, it's got the right functionality to it, but I also think, you know, it, in terms of serviceability or just reliability, Um, you know, five years down the line, you see you're, you're out on some trek in the Andes or something like that. And you look down and your chronograph hand is crooked or it's not re-zeroing correctly or something that would, that would annoy me. Whereas a GMT is a pretty, pretty reliable complication on any kind of watch. |
| James Stacey (host) | Yeah, no doubt. And I mean, that's a, that's a good point with the serviceability and the reliability. And I think you also have an increased, uh, servicing cost, uh, which I think matters, I guess. I, within the confines of this discussion, I think it matters is that, you know, you will pay more to service a chronograph, especially an in-house, uh, chronograph. And typically their service windows are shorter than say a comparable three hand or a light complication, like a GMT or point or date, something like that. But it does bring me to, uh, kind of my next watch, which is actually a GMT chronograph. So the, um, I would be tempted to say that I have a, I have a Zen 144 GMT, which is a 40 millimeter kind of hooded lug GMT chronograph from Zinn. And I think it would make an amazing single watch, save for the relative complexity of the movement. But you get a huge amount of functionality there. So if you needed to be able to time things, the chronograph is better than a bezel for some situations, not for diving, but for timing regular life events up to say 12 hours, it's really handy. And it was probably one of the first chronographs I personally bought. I had plenty in for review and never really took to it. And then I saw this in person and I just loved it. I love that it's almost ridiculously complicated depending on where the hands are. Yeah. Because you have fairly similar handset and a lot of loom and big numerals. And I love the watch. I think it's great. I don't want to pick a watch that I already have, but I mean, if I was going that route, I really do like the Zen 103 TI UTC Test Staff. Oh yeah. I like that too. So that's the titanium. It has an external bezel, which my 144 doesn't have. So it has a countdown bezel, which doesn't work for diving, but there are a lot of things you can do with a countdown bezel. And otherwise it's very similar to the 144, but you have a titanium case. |
| [agreement/acknowledgment noise] | Yeah. |
| James Stacey (host) | And you still come in at 41 millimeters. It's quite thick at 17 millimeters, and I'm sure that would bother me, which again is one of the reasons it's not a final decision for me, but I really love this watch. It's great value, beautifully made. The test staff stuff is going to be a way of ensuring that it is as robust as possible. So you have all sorts of technical requirements for waterproofness and shock resistance. It's 200 meter water resistant, low pressure resistant. It has temperature-resistant technologies. It has their AR dehumidifying technology. So if you want something tough, I think if you're going to buy, you know, say an ETA-based chronograph and you wanted one of the ultimate expressions, I think you're down between Zyn and, you know, one of the many Braemonts we've chatted about many times. |
| Jason Heaton (host) | Yeah, I think Zyn is a really strong contender for a One Watch because of their legendary you know, ruggedness and ruggedness is the top, top thing on my list of criteria just because, you know, it's, it's got to put up with whatever I throw at it. And I think also, even though I don't have a chronograph on my list, um, you know, a chronograph kind of meets that, that, uh, factor of, of being interesting enough to keep me engaged. It's, it's a watch that, you know, there really isn't a one other watch, like a chronograph that you you can play with, you know, I mean, you can spin a bezel on a dive watch, but that gets kind of boring after a couple of spins, but a chronograph, you can, you can just do cool stuff with, you know, you can, you can start and stop it. You can time pretty much anything you want. And, uh, yeah, that's really cool. It's funny. You bring up a Bremont because, uh, the second watch on my list is actually a Bremont and it's one that's, it's actually not available on the new anymore because it was a limited edition. Uh, but it's the Terra Nova. That would be kind of my second candidate for a one watch. I think it meets so many of my criteria. I think it's, for those maybe not familiar with the Terra Nova, it was the watch that was based on the Supermarine 500 dive watch that Bremont still makes. 43 millimeter case, 500 meter water resistance. And the Terra Nova, what they did to that one was they added a GMT function. They swapped out the dive bezel for a compass bezel. And they made the case out of titanium. And it was done for a polar expedition done by a guy that I know James and I both admire, Ben Saunders, who's a British polar explorer who recreated Robert Scott's trek to and from the South Pole a couple of years ago. And, you know, the watch ticks almost all of my boxes. I think just visually it's It's a beautiful watch, and the 43mm case, I own a Supermarine 2000, which is, it's a great watch, I wear it a lot, but it's big, and it's heavy. The Supermarine 500 is a 43mm case, so it's just about the perfect size, and made of titanium, it makes that watch, I've tried it on, it's just so comfortable, it's such a perfect size and weight. And, you know, like you, I'm a big fan of GMT functionality, and that one's got it. And it's just a great watch to look at. It's a cool watch to play with. It would certainly stand up to pretty much anything I could throw at it, especially if it was tested by a guy who dragged a sled to and from the South Pole. And it kind of straddles, I mean, you could kind of get away with it as even a dress watch in a pinch. It's not a dress watch per se, but it's nice looking, has a refinement to it. And I happen to like the brand. I like Bremont a lot. So, you know, the Terra Nova kind of ticks a lot of boxes. It ultimately isn't the winner of my one watch selection, but it's definitely high on my list. |
| James Stacey (host) | Yeah, the Terra Nova was also in the running for my list. It's one of my absolute favorite Bremonts. They only made 300. Like you said, the titanium makes a really noticeable difference to that S500 case. It has some nice detailing on the dial with the kind of globe pattern that gives you just a little bit of extra something to appreciate about it. And like you mentioned, you know, I'm sure most of the time you could wear it on rubber or on a NATO, but if you put it on an alligator strap or a leather strap, that's going to dress that watch up pretty considerably, especially for kind of a chunky dive watch. So I think it is a fairly versatile design. It uses color nicely with the GMT hand. And yeah, I'm not sure that you can actually pinpoint a lot of other watches that were put through the sort of beating that it would have gotten on the Terra Nova expedition. So I think you could safely say that it's going to hold up as far as being your everyday watch. It was their everyday watch through some of the worst the world had to offer. So a really cool piece. |
| Jason Heaton (host) | Yeah, and it's also, again, I mean, you kind of can argue both sides. in terms of like having an ETA-based or sort of off-the-shelf outsourced movement or something in-house like a Rolex or a Seiko or something like that. And there are pros and cons to both, I guess. But, you know, Bremont does a lot of fine-tuning to ETA movements to bring them up to chronometer specification. But again, if you were somewhere where there wasn't ease of servicing from a Bremont retailer or be able to send it in to their headquarters, you know, chances are a good watchmaker could take the back off and, and give it a service. Um, which I think is, you know, when it comes to sort of long-term ownership and, and just owning one watch, I think that's kind of an important thing to consider. |
| James Stacey (host) | No doubt. I would totally agree that, uh, I think you, the average would be to send it back to Bremont, you know, cause it is, it's a specialized design as far as the case and everything. But I, I would, I would think that, yeah, your local, you know, good watchmaker could certainly deal with that. And in a pinch, most likely any city's really good watchmaker could, uh, could deal with it. And my guess is it's something that would run for a really long time before it showed any, uh, any McCann, like all of these watches could run for a very long time, uh, well beyond their service window, which will degrade parts and stuff. Yeah. It's not, you should always get a watch service when it's supposed to be serviced, even if it's still running. Okay. |
| [agreement/acknowledgment noise] | Yeah. |
| James Stacey (host) | But I think that Terranova is a really interesting contender for this kind of crazy question for somebody in our position. |
| Jason Heaton (host) | I think your point about putting it on an alligator strap, which I hadn't considered, but it's also another good consideration when it comes to owning a one watch. And I've kind of thought about it for the ones on my list. But that notion of being able to wear it on a number of different kinds of straps, I think, is kind of an important thing to think about because Changing the strap on a watch can really change the mood or the look of it. And I think if you're only going to be wearing that thing day in and day out, it's kind of fun to change straps from time to time. |
| James Stacey (host) | How many watches could it actually be? |
| Jason Heaton (host) | Yeah, right. Now, the Doxa that I mentioned might not quite fit that because it looks good on rubber, looks good on a NATO and certainly the beads of rice bracelet that it comes on. But I don't know about on an alligator or even leather strap, might look okay on leather. Maybe. But it's, it's a sports watch through and through. |
| James Stacey (host) | So the lugs are kind of small for the shape of the case on the Doxa. Yeah. So if the strap isn't just right and it doesn't fill that gap correctly, right. It tends to make the strap look fairly small. |
| [agreement/acknowledgment noise] | Yeah. |
| James Stacey (host) | That's what I see on the vintage ones is, you know, they'll be on kind of that popular two stitch strap and it just doesn't, it makes the case look bigger than it actually is. Right. Or maybe the lugs more narrow than they actually are. One or the other, I suppose. But the, uh, That concept of trying to select a watch that could kind of be more than one watch brings me to my final choice if we want to get there. So my final choice is a Rolex and it's the GMT-Master II, the 16710. So the previous generation. And for me, this is essentially the perfect single watch. I don't necessarily like it any more than my Explorer 2. But with the GMT-2, you get the same functionality, but the added use of a bezel. You have the option of two different bracelets. You could have it on the Oyster or on the Jubilee. You know, there's lots of guys online that have fitted Jubilees to these cases. And then you have three bezels. So you can very simply swap out between the Coke, the Pepsi and the Black, which gives you a pretty wide range of watch. It looks amazing on NATO, it looks great on a leather strap. The style is still very much keyed to what I think is one of the most beautiful watches, sport watches of all time, the 1675. So it's all very close, and I think it has the kind of perfect mix of what I would wear in a single watch forever, especially if I'm picking something that I don't already own. Yeah. And I really just love the 16710. It's basically three plus watches in one, It's never really going to look out of place. It's not too big. It's not too shiny. And I think it's a really gorgeous design with a really proven functionality. And it has kind of a background that I like, you know, it pops up in movies every now and then John Milius wore one, which I really think is kind of fun. And, and, you know, I just kind of dig the watch and its entire ethos. And I think that that would be That would be my selection. And the nice thing is, is that you can, you can pretty much find them all day long for between five and 6,000 US. Yeah. In nice shape. And then, you know, go ahead and hunt down a few extra bezels. I actually see a lot of the guys selling them online have already done the bezel hunt for you. So they often come with another, either the other one or both of the other two. Right. And I just think it's an excellent watch. If you want to lean on one that might be worth a little bit more in the future. The 16710 was very briefly made with a 3186 movement. So the 3185 is the movement that was in the Explorer II and the 16710. And while the Explorer II, like the one that I have, 16570, while the Explorer II had more than a year, I believe, of production with the 3186, which is the upgraded movement. That's the one with the Parachrom. Correct. Yeah, the blue hairspring and it's in the modern, the 116710 uses the 3186, but there was a very slim window, at least according to what I've read online, it was a very slim window for the 16710, you know, the standard 40 millimeter aluminum bezel style GMT Master II. There's a very thin window. So they're worth a little bit more. They're already selling more like eight or $9,000 when I see them. Yeah. So, I mean, if you wanted to to go that route, you could consider trying to track one that has the 3186 movement if you wanted something a little bit more special than the, you know, quote unquote, garden variety GMT-Master II from that generation. |
| Jason Heaton (host) | Yeah, you know, it's funny you mentioned the GMT-Master. It was on my shortlist. It isn't my top pick, but it was definitely one of my top three. I had a 1675 for a while, loved it. Another one that got away. But it's an interesting story, I've got a little short story here. I was down in, this was, I don't know how many years ago, but I was down in New Mexico, Roswell, for the then-aborted launch of Felix Baumgartner's jump from the edge of space, that Red Bull Stratus thing. And it was a big media extravaganza, and there were a lot of delays in the launch, and I was standing outside on the balcony of this press room that they had built, And there was this guy kind of standing out next to me. I don't know if he was having a smoke or on his phone or something. And I glanced down at his wrist and he had this really old, beat up 1675 GMT Master on his wrist. And it was on the old riveted bracelet, all stretched out. The bezel was all faded, scratched up crystal, just really beat up. And I walked over and this was when I still had mine. And I walked over and I kind of held out my wrist like watch geeks are known to do. and said, nice watch. And we started talking about it and asked him how long he'd had it and where he got it. And he took it off and he handed it to me. And he said, turn it over. And I looked on the back and on the back engraved, it said Kinshasa 1974. And he said, what do you think that means? And I said, I don't know. I mean, I know where Kinshasa is, but I don't know what the significance of that date is. And he said, he was a National Geographic film producer. And in 1974, he and a buddy decided to go off and be mercenaries or filmmakers or whatever they were doing at the time. He was a young man at the time. And they went off to Africa to just see what sort of trouble they could get into. And in 1974 in Kinshasa was when they had the famous boxing match between, I think it was Muhammad Ali and Joe Frazier. It was called the Rumble in the Jungle. Wow. One of the most famous boxing matches of all time. And he went to that fight and it was at the time that he was in the city that he bought his GMT Master 1675 new and had it engraved on the back and he's worn it ever since. It's the only watch he's ever owned. What a story. It was such a great story and I was so, well for one thing I was so moved by this story that I actually wrote an article on Hodinke about it several years ago and you can probably still find it but it was It was that classic one watch guy that I've always wanted to be, you know, and yet I would never will be. And he will never be me because he's not a collector. He, he wanted one good quality watch that met his criteria and he's never taken it off his wrist. And, uh, he asked me at the end of our chat, he said, you know, it's running a little slow and, and, uh, it's all scratched up. He said, I'm thinking about getting one of the new ones. And I was like, please don't, you know, I said, just get this serviced, you know, maybe get a new crystal, but just. just wear this thing. It's, it's such a beautiful thing, you know? Yeah. And again, here, here was a guy who was wearing perhaps, as you mentioned, the ultimate one watch that story always sticks with me. And that, and that watch I think stands out as, as definitely a one watch candidate. I I'll, I'll quickly move to my kind of last two candidates and they're, they're kind of on opposite ends of the spectrum. And I don't know if I defied any rules here, but they're actually two watches that I own now. So if I had to, I'd have to whittle down between these two to get rid of everything else. |
| [pause/background noise] | Okay. |
| Jason Heaton (host) | One of them is our old favorite, the Seiko SRP777. And I realize that this is a recent watch, you know, within the past year. It's an homage to the 6309 from the 70s or the 80s. But I just think if I look at all of my criteria, you know, ruggedness, screw-in crown, ease of service, it's uncomplicated, looks good on a lot of different straps, It's unobtrusive. It's not going to get, you know, I'm not going to get mugged for it, hopefully. And it's an interesting, it's a good looking enough watch that I think I would enjoy it for many years to come. So I think a Seiko should be on most people's kind of short list for a one watch, at least by my, by my judgment. I just think that, you know, everybody knows the legendary Seiko durability and, and everything else about it. So that, that's, that's one of them. The other is, is the Rolex Submariner, the, the no date. 14060, which is the watch that we talked about in our collection inspection episode a couple weeks ago. Yep. It's a watch that not only holds sentimental value for me, but I think there's something about the Submariner that, you know, as a passionate diver, it kind of, I think I would need a dive watch. And I think, despite the fact that it's so simple, it doesn't even have a date, which, you know, there's pros and cons to that. Having a Rolex on my wrist that it has this built in sort of legacy or history to it that it almost like when I look at it, it gives me this intangible sort of motivation to get out and do stuff wearing a watch, because I know that the watch can take it. I know that countless other people have climbed the mountains and discovered, you know, treasure, sunken treasure and done whatever else wearing these watches. And so there's this kind of intangible motivation that just wearing that watch gives me every time I look at it, that kind of gets me out of the sleeping bag on a cold morning or whatever. And I think... Sure. I think that is kind of the ultimate tipping point that pushes that watch over to be kind of the winner and the one watch that fortunately I already own. But if I truly had to get rid of everything else, that would be the one that stood standing at the end. So that's my winner. |
| James Stacey (host) | That's great. So, I mean, we picked very, you know, largely sibling watches and I think it's a testament to kind of what, what you've experienced with not only the sentimental value that you have in that Rolex in the sub, but also in what you've experienced for its ability to kind of withhold the lifestyle that you feel you aspire to have. |
| [agreement/acknowledgment noise] | Yeah. |
| James Stacey (host) | And I think that's what I see in the GMT Master II, but it is interesting. You mentioned there right at the end that it would be the last one that you would sell. Yeah. See, that changes my math because the last one I would sell is a Seiko. Which would bring me back to your second to last choice. I have an SKX-007 and with no reservation, it would be the last watch I would get rid of. I would probably be homeless before I stopped, had this watch, like it just is not worth enough to make a change in the game if things went that poorly. But I would sell my EXP with, you know, if I had to, I had to, it's fine. It's just a thing. But much like you have some sentimental value in in your, uh, in your sub, there's some sentimental value for me in that SKX07. And I think that it reminds me, I think it reminds me that regardless of what a watch costs, it's still, it's still very much a watch. Yeah. And, and, you know, it's really easy in our position. I think in almost anybody's position, who's really deep into this hobby to start to see price as being fairly important and prestige and branding and marketing. and all of these things. And it's not that they aren't important or that they're all false, but a watch that's as good as something like the SKX or the SRP at the price that they're offered does suggest there's a falsehood to a lot of what we accept as realities. And I say this realizing that we're two guys that just selected Rolexes as our kind of primary watch. But I would be very much, you know, I have my SKX modded for a 12-hour bezel, which I call a CMT, the cheap mean time. And I would be just as capable and happy to wear that watch around as I would the Rolex. I just feel the Rolex would be more special in the watch category than something like an SKX, whereas the SKX would be, for me, more special in the sentimentality. And it sounds like you've got a mix of those two things together in the sub. It's interesting how the brain kind of works because none of this is rational. It's not rational to have a bunch of watches and it's not rational to be somebody that wants a bunch of watches and has to consider only one. It's all just, it's all kind of silly if you zoom out enough. But if you don't, if you remain kind of at operating length, I think it's interesting that the decisions that we came to and how it really does come down to these watches that have an adventurous spirit and still reflect the kind of nerdy element of liking watches all wrapped up into one so whether it's a Seiko at two or three hundred dollars or a Rolex at let's say between four and five and six thousand dollars I don't think it necessarily changes the enthusiasm it just kind of changes the metric by which it's viewed. |
| Jason Heaton (host) | I agree and I'd be curious you know as we kind of wrap this up to I think it's it's a topic that it's it's the classic you know, bar room watch nerd conversation. |
| James Stacey (host) | Yeah, it's the three car garage question or whatever you've got, yeah. |
| Jason Heaton (host) | Yeah, totally. And so, you know, Scott, thanks a lot for that question. I think, you know, it inspired us to talk passionately here for well over, you know, probably half an hour. So, you know, really great. And we'd love to hear from our listeners as to maybe what their choices would be, whether they agree with us or they have other watches that they would consider as their one and only, or if it's one that they're seeking. Um, let us know, you know, tag TheGreyNado on Instagram or email us at TheGreyNado at gmail.com and let us know what is your one watch. |
| James Stacey (host) | Yeah. And if you've managed to actually go to one watch, we'd be very interested to get a little essay from you. So send us an email or throw it up on Instagram. Um, if you're listening to this and you're holding your phone right now, jump to the episode 12 post for TheGreyNado. on, uh, at the Grenado and, uh, and just throw it in the comments of what, what you would pick and maybe what you think about our selections. Thank you so much, Scott, for the question. And we'll be back in just a moment with new business. And we're back. We really hope that you liked the first main segment about our kind of one watch conundrum and, uh, but we're ready to get into new business. So, Jason, what do you got this week? What's new? What's happening? |
| Jason Heaton (host) | Well, I am moving far away from the one-watch conundrum because I just acquired another watch. It's a killer, too. It's a killer, yeah. So, I was in, as I mentioned last episode, I was down in Bonaire doing some diving a few weeks ago, and between dives, I'm sitting on the balcony of the apartment that we were renting, and I'm checking my email, and this one pops up from a guy, a vintage dealer in Chicago, And he says, uh, I've got a couple of watches you might be interested in. And one of them was, um, a Doxa sub 200 C Rambler T graph. And it was a watch that I've long loved, but there's such unicorns. I mean, they're just so rare. They just don't pop up for sale. And I always assumed they were way out of my price range. So, um, when this popped up, I, I almost impulsively wrote back and said, I'll take it. And I, as luck would have it, I had just sold a car that I'd had for a long time, had a little bit of cash, and pulled the trigger. And I had to wait, like, agonizing, like, ten long days before I got back from that trip and another trip, and then finally it came in the mail, and I really haven't taken it off since. It's a, it's, I think it's like a 69 or 70, so it's, you know, 45, 46 years old. The Seed Rambler is the silver dial that Doxa made, and the T-graph denotes that it's a two-register chronograph, hand-wound, It's got the classic Doxa case and the no deco bezel, but it's got a really interesting movement in it. It's like it was made by Eberhard, and it's a hand-wound column wheel chronograph with date, which was a fairly rare combination back then. Yeah. But Eberhard was kind of under the same umbrella of companies at the time, must have been Synchron during that era. And Doxa sourced the movement from them and made it, and apparently they only made 300 of the three different colors, the orange dial, the black dial, and the silver dial. And this one happens to be the silver, which I think I kind of like the most. |
| James Stacey (host) | I also think it's the best of the three. And for anyone listening, zip over to Jason's Instagram, at Jason Heaton, and check out some pictures, because I actually don't think, unless you know the watch already, that it's going to be exactly what you think it is. It's really cool. Yeah. It has this really cool minute hand, and it's a killer design. And I think that the silver dial is definitely the one to have. |
| Jason Heaton (host) | Yeah, I love it. And it came with the original bracelet, which if you don't know about the old Doxa bracelets, they were way ahead of their time. It's the beads of rice style bracelet, but then it has this clasp that when you pop it open, it has the little ratchet teeth inside the clasp and a little spring loaded tooth that grips the ratchet teeth. So that when you open it, it opens all the way and you can take it off. But then when you put it on, you close the clasp and you squeeze the bracelet And it closes up to exactly the fine-tuned diameter that you want. And then it also has, on each end of the clasp, it has these spring-loaded sections that are made to expand if you wear it over a wetsuit sleeve. And it's just the most ingenious bracelet. I mean, we talk about the Tudor Pelagos bracelet nowadays and how great it is. It's essentially this solves the same issues, you know, 45 years earlier. |
| James Stacey (host) | I mean, it's just a... So cool. I had no idea when you told me that that was the that there was any of that functionality in the old Doxa bracelets. |
| [agreement/acknowledgment noise] | Yeah. |
| James Stacey (host) | And it's just awesome. Yeah. |
| Jason Heaton (host) | Yeah. So it's, it's, I'm, I'm smitten. |
| James Stacey (host) | It's, it's a great watch. I can't wait to see it when you get up here in, uh, in July, it's going to be a highlight of the trip. |
| Jason Heaton (host) | I will bring it up. I will not take it diving though. Fair enough. Just a quick, uh, further update. I just got back a few days ago. I was in, um, out in Colorado. I know James, you've got a mountain trip coming up. I was out there with my wife. Uh, we were there for four days. Flew out to Denver and then drove out to Boulder and did four days of some pretty intensive hiking. We did kind of an acclimatizing hike around the Flatirons, which are just kind of the mountain range right behind Boulder. And then the next day we drove out to Rocky Mountain National Park, went through Estes Park, went into the park entrance, and we did a few hour hike up to Emerald Lake, which is a beautiful alpine lake that's surrounded by these these big craggy peaks. You had Hallett Peak on one side and Flat Top Mountain on the other. Tops out at about 10,000 feet at the at the end of the trail there and we had some lunch there and the marmots were chasing us around trying to steal food from us and and it was just a beautiful sunny day. There was still snow up there. And then the last day that we were there, actually it wasn't the last day, the second to last day we We tackled another, we tackled a peak called Deer Mountain, which kind of a moderate peak as Rocky Mountain National Park goes. I mean, you can go up to, you know, 14,200 plus on a few of the peaks out there. Deer Mountain tops out a little over 10,000 feet, but it's a beautiful hike. We left really early in the morning and we pretty much had the mountain to ourselves. And when we got to the top, it has these beautiful vistas out over Longs Peak and some of the other 14ers out there. If anyone's looking for a kind of a good sort of moderate hike that you can do in a half a day in Rocky Mountain National Park, I really strongly recommend Deer Mountain. It was really a fun hike. So, you know, with all the diving lately, it was just great to get out and get in the mountains and do some hiking. That sounds wonderful. Yeah. And you've got some mountain travel, mountain climbing coming up soon, James, too. What's coming up for you? |
| James Stacey (host) | Uh, yeah, so this is the, would be the last episode we'll record before Baker. So I'm off to, um, you know, Northern Washington. It's just a short, relatively short drive from where I live in Vancouver. And, uh, pretty, what looks to be a pretty nicely laid out kind of three days on, uh, on the mountain via Eastern Glacier and will be the culmination of kind of my first attempt to plan out and get ready for physically and gear-wise an actual alpine ascent. And I know I've talked at length about this on the show in the past, so I'll keep it as brief as possible with that. I'm also working on a Vancouver local collector's Ferrari collection. So this is a gentleman that actually has all five of Ferrari's supercars. So I'm going to write that up for Monte Cristo Magazine here in Vancouver. But yeah, it's a gentleman that has a 288 GTO, an F40, an F50, an Enzo, and a LaFerrari. Oh my gosh. All red and all really, really cool. Wow. So I'm excited about that. You know, the 288 GTO is one of my all-time favorite cars from one of my favorite eras of cars. And so that's fun. You know, it's one that just kind of dropped on my lap and I'm pretty excited about. I also found out just earlier today that I have a Raven Defender coming in for review. So Raven is one of the kind of sister brands to Steve Rowe, previously Benares watches. And the Defender was done through a Kickstarter campaign. So it's this kind of cool field watch design with these two oversized crowns. Came in a bunch of different versions as per the usual for Kickstarter. But it's one of these ones where you get a chance at a very nice price point via the Kickstarter. So that's one that I'm kind of excited to check out. You know, it's just a few hundred dollars. Seems pretty fair. And I think it's a pretty cool design. I'm not sure how the big crowns will wear in person, but that's the fun of doing a review. Certainly from the photos, I like the style of the watch. Finally, you know, I've, I've been dragging my heels on this one and a couple of people have actually mentioned it on Instagram, but I am writing my SRP 777 review. So I won't continue to drag my heels on that. It'll be a full video. So if you've been waiting for that, or it feels like too long since you read everybody else's reviews of, uh, of that watch, uh, I've, I've, I've started writing it and, uh, I will complete it sometime in the near future. Just stay tuned and I'll, I'll put that link up when it's available. |
| Jason Heaton (host) | Nice. Hey, what, uh, what watch are you going to wear on Baker? And more importantly, what strap is going to keep it on your wrist? |
| James Stacey (host) | Yeah. So Baker, I'm taking the Explorer. Um, I didn't buy an Explorer to baby it. I feel like it's the proper watch for the trip. Uh, and I picked up a new, this is going to sound like we're sponsored or in any way paid by Toxic, but we really aren't, I promise. Um, I just rather dig a straps and, uh, I placed, uh, an order there. for a new strap, which they call the Toxic Royal. And it's kind of these RAF or I know it as kind of a Maritac style. So it's NATO-esque in that it's a piece of nylon, you know, a piece of webbing, but it's a single piece. So there's no underkeeper and then there's no metal keepers at all. It has a single loop of nylon to function as a keeper for the tail. And then it has a simple sewn in metal loop. So there's no point of failure on the watch. And it'll make sure that the EXP is as close to my wrist as possible and that there's nothing that could break and result in me dropping the watch or losing it. And it should hopefully keep it from binding up, you know, with no metal edges or anything from binding up on any of the various sleeves that I'll be wearing throughout the trip. So I bought one in unsurprisingly gray. And, uh, yeah, I, I, you know, I only got it this afternoon and I threw it on the watch immediately and it kind of suits the smaller size and proportions of the Explorer. It works nicely. And if you're not one for a NATO or you prefer not to have the hardware, maybe clicking on your desk or your keyboard or the face of your laptop or something like that, then I mean, this is a kind of a cool option. And for the utmost in safety and simplicity. I think it's cool. They're 12 bucks. It seems pretty fair. They often have promo codes going on these days. So you can check these out. And just to prove that again, I'm not being paid by Toxic in any way. The Broad Arrow guys also sell the Maratek ones through their site. And I have had one of those for a few years, and it's held up really well. It's my go to gray 22 millimeter option. So it feels like a good time to move on to Q&A. And as we have an interview later in the show, we're going to go with one longer Q&A question rather than our normal two. So for today's question and answer, we have Max in Colorado, and he wrote in with a very specific question. And I would quickly apologize to Max because he wrote some time ago. And because of the complexity of his question, it took us some time to get to it. But I think we've got a full answer for you, Max. So I apologize for being tardy. But here we go. Max says, I spend most of my free time fly fishing in the Rocky Mountains of Colorado. Awesome. Thunderstorms are a daily occurrence during the summertime so I'm looking for a chronograph with a telemeter scale to accurately calculate the distance from a lightning strike, and better judge when it's time to seek shelter. There are a few telemeter chronographs on the market from Alpina and Longines, the problem is that they all have a polished cases and reflective crystals. Shiny watches or shiny anything tend to spook fish, especially in the small mountain streams I frequent. I'd love to hear your thoughts on a telemeter chronograph with a stealthy case and a double AR coated crystal. If there's nothing currently available, I'd love some advice on modding the case or crystal or adding a telemeter scale to the dial or bezel of an existing stealthy watch. I'd prefer an automatic movement, but quartz could work. So Jason, what do you think for Max's very cool, very specific question? |
| Jason Heaton (host) | Yeah, this kind of question, I mean, it was tough for us. I know we went back and forth for several weeks on this, It's actually the kind of question I love. I love watches that are actually used for stuff, of course. I think we both do, but especially such a niche purpose. And, you know, just having been out in Colorado, I know that those thunderstorms roll in pretty much every day, right around midday, and you got to get out of the, get out of the lightning strike area. So I, you know, I've got two watches that are kind of on opposite ends of the price and style spectrums, but I think Other than the crystal reflectivity, which I'm not quite sure about, I think they might meet your criteria. One is a bit of an outlier, a bit of a bold one, and that is the Gram Chronofighter Navy Seals Foundation. This, you know, Gram is just, they're out there. They're big watches. They're big, you know, masculine, kind of in-your-face watches with the giant left side bomb trigger push button for the chronograph. But, you know, from what I've seen, they're well-made watches. It's an ETA 7750-based chronograph movement. The thing about the Navy Seals Foundation version is it has sort of this subtle digital camo dial, which is very sort of polarizing. Some people might hate it. Some people might like it. Maybe as an outdoorsman, you might gravitate towards it. But it's got a PVD steel case. Looks to be a matte finish from what I can see. Rubber strap. And then it has a telemeter. on the, you know, on the dial that's calibrated in miles, which is, I think, helpful, at least here in the States, the only place in the world that seems to still use miles, and to 77 degrees Fahrenheit, which telemeters are used to track the, you know, the speed of sound and the speed of sound is dependent on air temperature. And the fact that they specified 77 degrees and they're doing it in miles, I think is kind of an interesting twist, might lend itself fairly well to your situation, although that big bomb trigger push button might get snagged on your jacket or something. On the other end of the spectrum is a Victorinox Swiss Army, which I've always liked. I love the brand. And they had a watch called the Infantry Vintage that they made in PVD for a while. And it was a matte finish PVD. And it's a quartz chronograph with three registers. But it has a pretty prominent telemeter scale on the dial. And I think it would just make a kind of one of those ideal outdoor watches, you know, quartz, it's gonna be rugged, not too expensive, they're slightly right around the $800 mark. And I'm not sure that it's still in their current catalog. I kind of had a hard time finding the PVD version on their website. But I'm sure you can pick one up secondhand from from one of the online dealers or just look around for used. But, you know, the gram was, like I said, it's a limited edition bit of an outlier, fairly expensive, The Swiss Army might be a good, I think it'd be just kind of a cool fishing watch. It kind of has that vibe to it too. So those are my two recommendations. James, what did you come up with? |
| James Stacey (host) | Well, along with your recommendations, I would say you could consider the Ball Fireman Storm Chaser. So this is a watch designed quite specifically for these sorts of uses, more for tracking and following storms, hypothetically. But this is a, you know, a steel chronograph, with the telemeter scale, and I think it's quite a handsome watch. I believe the watch has a mixed surface, so if this was the watch that you wanted and it was crucial that it not have any polished, I think it has a polished banding along the lug edge, you could theoretically have that brushed out. Another option beyond the ball to go in an entirely different direction is the strange Seiko, And so this is the Seiko SNN021P1, which I was able to find kind of randomly through Google image search. It's a simple sort of integrated bracelet style entry level Seiko quartz. It's around $100 US and it features a telemeter scale. So I mean, if that's what you wanted, that would be at a price point where if you did want to modify it, get it brushed, get it bead blasted or something like that. If it had some, you know, more polish than was acceptable, that would be an option. And theoretically you can have the crystals coated to be a more anti-reflective, uh, if that's an issue, uh, with a, with a watch of that price point. And then the last ones that I could find, I don't think they're going to suit kicking around outside in the, you know, in, in the stream and the wilderness, but, uh, The company Hanhart makes a couple of watches with telemeter scales. They're fairly spendy, but you can swing by the show notes to see a link to a couple options from there. So I mean, it's a fairly precise question. And I think that Swiss Army vintage PVD that Jason spoke about is probably right on the line with just about ideal for that sort of use. And I mean, if you can source one, you can probably score a pretty solid price as well. So thanks very much for that question, Max, and I hope the lightning season and fishing season serves you well and whatever you find on wrist, I hope it works out. If you have your question, please send it to us, thegraynadoatgmail.com, or you can write us directly on Instagram if you prefer, at thegraynado. I'm reading all the emails. I'm replying to as many as possible. We have a fantastic collection of questions. So if you want to get yours in there, by all means, send us an email. We really enjoy getting to know people who are listening to the show and trying to help you find a watch or a solution or something really specific like with Max and his awesome question. Jason, you sat down with a pretty interesting guest. Tell us about it and we'll get to it. |
| Jason Heaton (host) | Yeah, this week I had a chance to have a phone chat with Hamilton Powell, who is the CEO of Crown & Caliber, which if you've been paying any attention online on the forums or on social media, you might know that name. Crown & Caliber is an Atlanta-based seller of pre-owned watches. And they've got a pretty unique take on the selling process and how they do consignment of watches. And Hamilton was a really interesting guy to talk to. He's very passionate about watches and just a fun guy to talk to. And he has some interesting opinions about vintage pieces, pre-owned stuff, even the Apple Watch. So give it a listen. I'm speaking with Hamilton Powell, CEO of Atlanta-based Crown & Caliber, which is one of the leading online sellers of pre-owned watches. Hamilton, welcome to The Gray NATO, and thanks for speaking with me today. |
| Hamilton Powell (guest) | Likewise, thank you. |
| Jason Heaton (host) | Can you, first of all, before we kind of launch into the nitty-gritty of what Crown & Caliber does, maybe we can get a little background on you. What's your history with watches, and how did it kind of lead you to get involved launching or backing Crown & Caliber? |
| Hamilton Powell (guest) | Sure. So my background is actually in the financial space. So before crown and caliber, I ran a private equity investment fund and, um, it was, it was really through observation that I got into crown and caliber. Um, I, ever since I can remember, uh, my dad wore a really great, uh, Rolex Datejust. And so it's probably the story that a lot of, a lot of men have of their dad's watch and how special it really is. |
| [agreement/acknowledgment noise] | Yeah. |
| Hamilton Powell (guest) | And so as long as I can remember just being a little kid, he'd always have that on his on his wrist. But what really kind of, I guess, started Crown & Caliber was a conversation I had with a friend of mine over lunch. His name was Jay. And Jay's a great guy. And he was telling me this horror story of how he was selling his Patek Philippe watch. And he told me the story that I found later on to be pretty typical of a lot of people. He started off by listing it on eBay. And he got all sorts of interesting responses to that listing, like, you know, please send the watch to my cousin in Nigeria, who will then send you funds. And then that obviously didn't work. So then he posted on Craigslist. But then the idea of meeting somebody in a parking lot with his Patek Philippe watch, which just wasn't something that settled well with him. So he did what most people do is he spent a Saturday afternoon just driving around a bunch of retail stores and getting a bunch of lowball offers. And then he ended up taking one of those offers. I think it was fifty two hundred is what he sold it for as a gondola. It was really just kind of sad. But he he then went back to that store a few weeks later for some other reason. He saw his exact watch for sale for twelve thousand. And so it's just this idea that you know it's just such an inefficient secondary marketplace. And so after that conversation I figured that there's got to be a better way to make this secondary secondary watch marketplace efficient and more customer friendly not just to the buyer but also to the seller. |
| Jason Heaton (host) | So how long has Crown & Caliber been in business? |
| Hamilton Powell (guest) | We started the company a little over three years ago. |
| Jason Heaton (host) | You guys have grown fast. You've got a big presence these days. |
| Hamilton Powell (guest) | We have and we've been really fortunate to have some really great customers and obviously great people here. We started with an idea and just a couple of folks and now we're approaching I think 50 full-time employees now. |
| Jason Heaton (host) | So, kind of getting back to your history, what, you know, you mentioned your father's Datejust. What was kind of the first watch that really spoke to you? A few episodes ago, James and I had an episode that I think we called Origin Stories, and we talked about watches that, kind of our first watches, both, you know, for me it was a Seiko dive watch when I was in high school, and then kind of moved up the ladder to like a Planet Ocean at some point, and some others over the years. Do you recall, you know, kind of either the first watch maybe you wore as a kid or maybe your first legitimate kind of luxury watch? |
| Hamilton Powell (guest) | Yeah. So before crown and caliber, I really, you know, just was at an age and stage where I couldn't afford a great watch to be, to be, to be honest. And it was, it was since starting it that, um, that I got exposed to, uh, some really great watches, but more importantly, it got exposed to, um, some really great thinkers in the watch space. The, the, the one that I, I would point to most is Jeff Stein. You know, he runs On The Dash. Oh, yeah. And Jeff was the one that introduced me to Hoyer, and he is the one that is responsible for my ridiculous spending habit now on Hoyers. And so my first watch, my first great watch that I got was an Abercrombie & Fitch Seafarer that Jeff helped me to identify. And so that's the one that means the most to me, just because, as you know, I mean, that first watch, that first great watch especially, is just always so important. |
| Jason Heaton (host) | You said your father had a Datejust. Was he into watches? I mean, was he kind of a mentor in watch appreciation or was it just he had the Datejust because so many people got a Datejust when they kind of got a promotion or something? |
| Hamilton Powell (guest) | Yeah, he got that watch when he was, I guess it was their fifth wedding anniversary. My mom and my dad have been married for, I think, 35 years now. So that was when he got it. So he's had that watch forever. I think the importance of the watch isn't that it's some incredible, complicated watch. It's just a, you know, it's a Datejust. But the thing that's, I think, important about that watch is, you know, it's my dad's watch. It's the watch that he wore to every baseball game, every practice, every memory I have of him, he's wearing that watch. |
| Jason Heaton (host) | Since you've gotten, since you started Crown & Caliber, has he, what does he make of the work you're doing? Does he appreciate it? |
| Hamilton Powell (guest) | Has he gotten into watches further? He's had his watch repaired several times and cleaned several times. Complimentary. I can tell you that. Yeah. So he's enjoyed the fringe benefits of having a son in the watch space for sure. |
| Jason Heaton (host) | But he's one of those mythical one watch guys. Yep. |
| Hamilton Powell (guest) | He is. Yeah. And he hasn't looked to collect anymore. |
| Jason Heaton (host) | Yeah. Good for him. I kind of envy guys like that to a certain degree. |
| Hamilton Powell (guest) | I do too, given the amount of money that I've spent on my collection. And honestly, I think, you know, collecting isn't about the number that you have. I think it's about just having the right ones, the ones that mean the most to you. So I think as I've grown my collection, it's not just having a bunch of watches, it's having ones that mean something. And I'm sure you're the same way, that you want to collect for a passion, not for a number. Right, right. |
| Jason Heaton (host) | What would you say, I mean, there's such a, I think you guys have kind of came in at just the perfect time because there's such a resurgent interest, or maybe it's a new interest, in collecting vintage watches. I mean, it's, you know, you can see the, just in the past five to seven years, the number of resellers has gone up. There's, you know, big jumps in prices, these massive auction results that we see reported almost weekly. What do you attribute to this recent boom in vintage watches, given the state of the timepiece being obsolete these days? |
| Hamilton Powell (guest) | Yeah, you know, we're seeing, so I would classify the watches that we deal with as pre-owned or vintage. And pre-owned has a little bit more of a just a modern bent to it. Yeah. Whereas vintage is, you know, kind of anything from the 80s and earlier. But although that's debatable. But I think what you're referring to is vintage in and of itself. But we've actually seen a resurgence in both. I think I can speak to the general pre-owned market first. And what we've really seen happen is I think the consumer is getting smarter, and as the world has become more global and more transparent, so too has become known the true cost of buying something brand new. And I think that the average consumer realizes that when they go to a retail store, they're paying for the chandelier, they're paying for the marble floor. And as we have, and others, have made the secondary watch market more efficient and more trusted, that gap is no longer necessary. between pre-owned and it's kind of like what's been done in the luxury car space. Certified pre-owned is now an adopted way of buying a luxury car. And that's what we're trying to do in the watch space is just to take the trust issue out and make it so that you can get essentially the same watch for up to 50% off of retail. The vintage market, which is what your original question was about, is absolutely on fire. I mean, you see it every day. You see it in the auction world. You see it with a lot of resellers coming out. And honestly, I think there's a couple of things that I would attribute to that. One, I think is general men's fashion trends are kind of going in the direction of the old Cary Grant days. I think that that's really one of the reasons why men like a lot of these watches is because it appeals to the general fashion trend that's going on right now. But I also think that just having been in it now for a little over three years, seeing the amount of publicity that's been generated on the vintage watches, I think a lot of people just didn't know about these cool watches. Americans are individualistic people to start off with. And I think that it just really resonates with people that they can have a watch that nobody else has. And that's the same reason everybody puts bumper stickers on their cars. We don't really want to be the same. And I think having a watch that has a story and a history unlike anything else is one of the reasons why people like them. So I think there's a couple of reasons. |
| Jason Heaton (host) | Yeah, that's interesting. I mean, it's a good point too. I think there's just, there's a lot more information out there nowadays. I mean, it was, it was only, you know, when I started writing for, for Hodinkee, for instance, it was like 2010, I think. I mean, it's only six years ago. And granted there were, there were certainly blogs before that, you know, blog to watch and a few others and of course the web forums, but it's only really been in the past decade. I would say that, that this huge amount of information that a person could just sit at his desk if he's bored at work and learn everything there is to know about an Abercrombie and Fitch Seafarer. |
| Hamilton Powell (guest) | Absolutely. And you know, I'd also think that the brands are partially to blame for the resurgence in vintage only because look what they're doing. They're doing so many reissues. They're doing so many, um, so much embracing of their past that it kind of forces the consumer to explore that past. And when they explore the past, I think what they find is I can have the original vintage version of this watch. in some cases for less than the modern reissue. So why would I not want that vintage version instead? So anyway, I think that's kind of an interesting. |
| [agreement/acknowledgment noise] | Yeah. |
| Hamilton Powell (guest) | Yeah. |
| Jason Heaton (host) | So, okay. So, you know, we both probably realized that the pre-owned and vintage collecting is, can be a bit of a minefield. I mean, there's obviously authenticity issues and quality, you know, service history, all this kind of stuff. I guess I've got a two-part question. What sorts of watches or what criteria does Crown & Caliber apply when it's assessing a watch to take on a consignment basis for somebody? I mean, you obviously don't just take anything. And then also kind of what's the process that you guys go through to authenticate it and service it? |
| Hamilton Powell (guest) | Sure. So let me pretend you're selling your watch and just kind of walk you through the process. I think that might help answer your question. So if you have a watch to sell, You have a lot of options. You can go on eBay or Craigslist or try to sell yourself, but we present, I think, a pretty compelling option for individuals. So it starts by going to our website and entering just a little bit of information about your watch into our quote form. And so once you hit submit, that information goes to our team of valuation experts. So we have five individuals here that do nothing but determine the value of the watches that we're selling. And so we then get back to you and say, Hey, thanks for the quote submission. Here's the data we have on your watch. And we'll actually present to you the last 10 or 20 times your watch is sold at auction, or on eBay, or on forums, or what we've sold it for. And we'll actually arm you with that data. So we'll say, based on this data, we believe we can sell your watch for, say, $10,000. And if you like that number, then what we'll do is we'll ship you prepaid and insured packaging materials at our expense, so it's totally free to you. Those materials arrive at your front door, and then you just wrap up your watch, and you send it to us. And once we get your watch in our secure facilities, that's kind of when, to your question about adding value, that's when we add value. So we'll take your watch, we'll do a 45-point inspection on it, and if it needs some service, we'll do the service. We have six full-time watchmakers here under our roof, and so we'll service that watch if it needs servicing. We'll then refinish it if it's a modern watch and it deserves some polishing or refinishing. And then we will professionally photograph your watch and get it on our site. And we'll probably list it a little bit higher than the $10,000 to try to get you as much as possible. But your watch will then sell, typically our watches sell within 60 days, and we will not sell it for a penny less than that $10,000 number that we promised you. From the buyer's standpoint, though, what they're doing is they're buying a certified pre-owned watch from Crown & Caliber that's gone through our 45-point inspection process, serviced by our watchmakers, and they can buy it with confidence, because we offer a four-year warranty on our watches. And honestly, if something goes wrong, we're here. I mean, we've got a reputation. We're not a fly-by-night dealer. So we'll do whatever it takes to make you happy as a buyer. So really, what we're trying to do is to make it easy for sellers and make it a trustworthy experience for buyers. |
| Jason Heaton (host) | And going back to kind of the criteria part of it, will you take pretty much anything? I mean, within reason, you know, there are a lot of watches that, I don't want to offend anybody, but let's say it was a Movado Museum watch that, you know, was very popular in the 80s, kind of a quartz Movado Museum watch. I mean, they aren't particularly sought after these days. Would you take a, I don't want to use that watch in particular, but, you know, there are a lot of watches that are just either out of fashion or not as desirable. And of course, it's in your interest to sell these watches. So do you ever say no or turn things away? |
| Hamilton Powell (guest) | We do. We actually say no about 50% of the time. And it's for that reason. There's mainly two reasons why we would say no. One is the price. Our unit economics require that the watch be worth at least $2,000. So for that Movado Museum watch or for other watches, Timex's or Casio's or things like that, even some Tag Heuer's that would fall below that 2000. We go to the owner and we kindly and graciously tell them, I'm sorry, this is just not the right way to sell the watch. The second reason we would say no is if the watch required a complete overhaul. In that case, it's just not worth our time and energy to do that and so make it really, really difficult. Um, to, uh, to, to put all that time and energy and, and, and, and to actually sell it profitably. So those are typically the two, uh, two reasons. Although I will tell you that most watches that come in that actually pass our price criteria, if they do require some service, we typically can do that in house. Sure. |
| Jason Heaton (host) | Um, kind of going to your own collection without getting into specifics. I would imagine in your position, you. pretty much at the pick of the litter. I mean, it must be very difficult to kind of control your own urges to, uh, to not just keep adding to your own collection from the stuff that comes in from, from prospective sellers on chronic caliber. I mean, what, what, what's your kind of filter for your own collection? |
| Hamilton Powell (guest) | Yeah, it's, first of all, it's like, it's like Christmas every day today over here. You kind of, you kind of get, you know, you get the FedEx guy coming with these big roll carts and lots of packages every single day. So, the discipline for me is really simple, is I don't meddle in the day-to-day watches. Otherwise, it completely puts me in the worst potential conflict of interest with Arken signers. So, really, I leave my collecting to myself in my spare time. So, working with people like Jeff or some of the industry leaders in the space, going online and trying to find something. try to stay away from our own watches just for that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. |
| Jason Heaton (host) | That's probably a good idea. Um, if you could give some advice to maybe an earlier version of yourself, maybe before crown and caliber, what would it be? And kind of how far, how far back would you go? Whether it's a, you know, watch related or otherwise. I mean, what, uh, what lessons have you learned? |
| Hamilton Powell (guest) | That's an interesting question. Um, from a personal standpoint, you know, I think the advice I would give say, you know, college Hamilton, if you will, is you really aren't in that much control. And you can fill in the blank, whether that's in business, in life, whatever. So I think what that does is that creates this great sense of freedom in a lot of ways that the decisions we make, yes, while they're important, ultimately, we're not as in control as we think. And so I think from a personal standpoint, I think that's been a really, just a big lesson learned. From a business standpoint, I would say, and we've been fortunate enough to do this, but it took us probably longer than we should, is if you bring on great people and you focus on the customer experience, those two things are all that really matters. And so, having great people here and just focusing really hard on the customer experience. If you do those two things well, I don't care what business you're in, you'll succeed. |
| Jason Heaton (host) | You know, it's interesting, you talk about the staff you have, I think you said you have close to 50 people. You know, I, I'm in Minneapolis, so I'm, I'm not in an exactly in a hotbed of, of the watch culture. I mean, we'd like to think so, but you know, New York is obviously the center of the universe in the U S when it comes to the watch business. How is it that you, you've built this up in Atlanta? I mean, that you've kind of drawn nothing against Atlanta, but it doesn't seem like you would exactly have a huge pool of kind of watch experts or watchmakers down there to, to draw from what was, I mean, I get, I'm guessing you're from there, but what, what kind of, how did you grow the business in Atlanta? |
| Hamilton Powell (guest) | Well, our benefits program includes grits and peaches. So we think, we think that's really helped to bring talent. Yeah, you're right. It's, it's difficult to attract great talent outside of New York or Silicon Valley or hotbeds like that. Yeah. You know, we, we've been able to do it. I really think it's because of the culture that we built over here. It's the, it's the most amazing culture of any company I've ever been a part of. And I think that when people come in, they interview, they feel that and they sense it. Yeah. I think that's part of it. Obviously, you know, we pay our employees well, we have great incentive programs and, you know, things like that. I think that matters too. But the area of our company where that's been the hardest to grow has been our watchmakers. There's just not, there's probably as many watchmakers in Atlanta as there are in Minneapolis. It's just, you know, they're all in either Dallas or New York or you know, other, you know, kind of hotbeds like that around the, mainly around the schools. So we've had to work really hard to find watchmakers who, one, are talented, and two, are willing to move to Atlanta. And our watchmakers in particular are very unique in the sense that they have to know how to work on a, you know, a Patek 2526 one morning, and then the afternoon working on a modern Panerai. You know, these are not watchmakers that, you know, really just came from an assembly line background, but they have to have just years and years of experience. So we spend a lot of time doing that, and we have a full-time recruiter that helps us with that. Wow. |
| Jason Heaton (host) | Do you outsource any of the service work? I mean, you must, right? I mean, for some pieces, you just simply can't do them in-house, I would guess, right? |
| Hamilton Powell (guest) | Yeah, and so that's why we turn away some watches that require just a massive amount of work that we couldn't do in-house, and we know enough to know when to say no. And I think that's, you know, part of our growth has been having that discipline to say no when we need to. We certainly have worked with some of the manufacturers to send them watches when we know we should, because ultimately we are a fiduciary to the consigner. And, you know, we can be very upfront and honest with them and say, we feel more comfortable if Patek did this work or if somebody did that work. And so we can certainly make that happen as well. Yeah, right. |
| Jason Heaton (host) | So, you know, switching gears a little bit. I mean, you guys have really done a nice job with social media promotion. I actually, I think it was last year, was a part of your curator program. We did sort of a dive watch thing on Instagram. How important do you think things like Instagram, Twitter, Facebook are to the watch business these days? |
| Hamilton Powell (guest) | Well, I think it's really important for certain segments. I think it's irrelevant for other segments. 3% of our customers, our last survey showed, are men. But the ages range from anywhere from 20 to 80. And so we're not as focused as a lot of other industries are because there's an interest in watches that spans generations. And so certainly for the younger generation, social media is important. I think it certainly adds a legitimizing factor. But watches, they're really unlike any other asset I've seen from a social standpoint. People just love to look at watches. And so I think that it's really important, particularly for the younger generation, to do that. I think for the older generation, more traditional advertising and things like that are kind of what they look to. But we're big believers in social. I think it means a big deal to us. |
| Jason Heaton (host) | Yeah. Do you think that there's a any sort of a bubble in the current situation when it comes to pre-owned or vintage watch sales? Or do you think it's just a market that's expanding kind of into its rightful size at this point? Or do you think there'll be a bubble and it'll kind of subside a little bit in the coming years? |
| Hamilton Powell (guest) | Well, for modern pre-owned, I'd say no, it's not a bubble. In fact, I think it's just moving up because that gap between our certified pre-owned watches and the retail equivalent is still a huge gap. And so I think what we'll see is that gap continue to get smaller and smaller. Again, similar to certified pre-owned Mercedes or certified pre-owned Lexus. I think it's a similar kind of approach. So I think we'll continue to see a big interest in that. And the result will be that gap should get smaller and smaller. For vintage, I think it's clear there is a bubble right now. I don't know if it's going to burst or not. I could argue either way. I think personally, I think these vintage watches, are worth the prices that we're seeing right now. I mean, these are one-of-a-kind, really great watches. And so in some ways, I think that this isn't necessarily a bubble, but it's just an awakening that these watches should be worth this price. You should be able to, I mean, vintage Hoyers, you know, I think are at the front of this bubble we're seeing. I actually think these watches are worth that. And so, um, and a lot of people I think agree. So I don't know that we'll necessarily see a cooling down, but I do think that, um, I think that the, the continued hockey stick is probably going to start to plateau a little bit. |
| [agreement/acknowledgment noise] | Yeah. |
| Hamilton Powell (guest) | Yeah. |
| Jason Heaton (host) | What, what are there any brands or particular watches that you feel are maybe undervalued or will have their moment at some point? I mean, maybe you don't want to reveal that at this point as a, as a collector, you know, You want to kind of keep that a secret so that you can scrape up as many as you can before they do take off. I mean, I have my own opinions. I happen to think, I agree with a few other people in the industry that the Doxa, vintage Doxas are kind of going to have their moment at some point. Any brands or watches that you feel are kind of undervalued or underappreciated? |
| Hamilton Powell (guest) | Yeah, I would agree with you on the Doxas. I think, you know, the NSRs too, we're starting to see a little bit of that same kind of Heuer-esque momentum. Um, I think the, uh, I don't know. I'd love to hear your thoughts on the, on just Rolex in general. I think, you know, we've seen that plateau that, that maybe plateau a little bit, although I don't, I don't really, I'm not really confident on that statement, but it just seems like they may have plateaued a little bit. Um, I think, uh, UG still has a way to go. There's, there's some really cool watches there. Um, and also, and this may sound kind of weird, but I think vintage Tissot's, I think, you know, I think like they were one of the most undervalued Cool looking watch. Yes. And so, you know, anyway, that, that'd be kind of my, you know, look, if I just contributed to making the watches I love unachievable, then sorry. But I think those are kind of the brands that I certainly see. Sure. |
| Jason Heaton (host) | All right. Two more questions. Are you, do you own an Apple watch? |
| Hamilton Powell (guest) | I do own an Apple watch, but here's why is because we did a really cool blog. I actually, bought an Apple Watch for the sole purpose of giving it to my watchmaker, so he would open it up and disassemble it. And then I had him open up and disassemble a Breguet, and I took pictures of the two. Because I just wanted to show the guts of an Apple Watch versus the guts of a Breguet. So technically, yes, do wear an Apple Watch, but it is in pieces right now. |
| Jason Heaton (host) | So last question, what watch are you wearing at the moment as we're speaking? |
| Hamilton Powell (guest) | Right now I'm wearing a Heuer Carrera, vintage Heuer Carrera. |
| Jason Heaton (host) | Is that kind of your go-to piece? |
| Hamilton Powell (guest) | Well, it is today. It came in and I just loved it so I'm not owning it but I'm wearing it right before it goes to photography this afternoon. |
| Jason Heaton (host) | Well, Hamilton Powell, thanks a lot for taking the time to chat with me today and appreciate your support and thanks a lot and all the best. |
| Hamilton Powell (guest) | Great, thank you so much. Appreciate it. |
| Jason Heaton (host) | Well, once again, I want to thank Hamilton Powell and Crown & Caliber for sitting down for that interview with us. Really enjoyed speaking with you, Hamilton, and thanks a lot for being an enthusiastic listener of the show. Let's move right into our final notes to wrap up today's episode. James, what have you got for us? |
| James Stacey (host) | Well, as I was preparing for my upcoming zip-up baker, I broke my Princeton Tech headlamp. And like you said, better at home than on the hill. Uh, but I broke it. So I went, I went out and I did a little bit of research and I went out and got another one. Um, I didn't want the Princeton. It seemed a little bit fiddly and it had like a mechanical, kind of a mechanical style switch that didn't seem especially protected and certainly a very small drop. It was actually just in the lid of my backpack. And when I folded the lid over, uh, the lid hit the table that was behind my backpack and that broke the, uh, the switch on the side of the headlamp. Uh, so wanting something kind of straightforward, I went with, um, the kind of better, best reviewed option out there, which is, uh, the black diamond spot. Uh, so Canadian, I paid about 45 bucks for it. So it's probably around 30 bucks American. And it's really nice. It was only a few dollars more than I paid for the Princeton tech. And, uh, and, and I like it. It's quite a bit brighter. It has a battery life indicator. It has, um, an audit, uh, like a locking feature so that the, You don't accidentally have it running the whole time that it's in your bag and then go to use it and it's dead. Good compromise between overall battery life and top output, which is around 200 lumens. So for a headlamp that only uses three AAA batteries, 200 lumens seemed excellent. So I went with that and so far it's been great. I use a headlamp all the time, like quite frequently. Whenever I would normally use a flashlight, I've gotten used to using a headlamp because it just leaves both of your hands free. And while I might consider myself a bit of a flashlight nerd, I find I don't check them out so much now that I have a headlamp because I just find them more convenient. And it might be from, you know, maybe a little bit of a history of working on my own cars, uh, where having the light not in your hands or needing a third, you know, second person, a third hand to hold your, hold your light in a very specific way, uh, can be pretty helpful. So I, I really enjoyed the, uh, I'm re I'm really liking that, uh, that headlamp. And then next up, I've got an article that I think has some mass appeal. You know, I'm pretty cautious about promoting anything about exercise or fitness. It's a strong focus in my life and something that I like to learn and read about. But for every exercise or fitness or diet problem or question, there's about 800 answers. And every answer believes that it's the truth. Uh, so it seems pretty difficult to try and manage any of the specifics, but exploremag.com ran, uh, this guy, Will Gadd wrote Gadd's truth, five fitness commandments to live by. And they're not the nitty gritty. They're more from a almost philosophical standpoint as to how to approach. Not say a specific goal or I want to be able to deadlift this much. I want to be able to run this far, but rather. a more holistic idea of a lifetime of general fitness. So I won't go into it any further than that. If you are really fit and you don't feel like you need any, any information at all, then by all means, skip it. If it's something that kind of piques your interest, then swing by the show notes and check out the truth about aging and fitness five fitness commandments to live by. I actually think that it's it's very down to earth, very straightforward. and has some wisdom to provide someone who's more concerned with the long game, being able to do things like dive and climb a hill or a mountain or whatever long into their later years, which is certainly my goal. And I think there was some interesting things in this article. So that's certainly something to check out. Jason, you've got a whole stack of really interesting stuff and a couple of things that I read this week and really loved. So I'm excited for your list. |
| Jason Heaton (host) | Yeah, I'm on a very specific theme this week. I kind of got into a bit of a jag on cave diving for whatever reason, because I don't certainly don't do any cave diving. But I think it all started, I caught a video, I don't remember where it was posted, but we'll put a link in the show notes. It was called Diving El Toh, as in El Toh, E-L separate word T-O-H. And it's just a beautiful little short film about some guys that go diving in a really clear, clear water cave. I think it's in Mexico's Yucatan Peninsula. And it's out on Vimeo. And it's just it's a nice, nice high def movie. Just you know, there's no dialogue, no narration or anything. It's just it's just beautifully shot. And when you see it, you know, them, them kind of floating through the interior of this cave. It's just just spectacular. It's just otherworldly. So check that out. And then I don't know that That coincided with an article that popped up on Outside Magazine's website. That was actually an article from the 1990s, and it's called Raising the Dead. And it was about a pretty harrowing adventure. It's a very long article about a body recovery that was done in one of the deepest caves in the world, a place called Bushman's Hole, which is in Africa. It's a very harrowing story. It's a very interesting story. It really kind of, pardon the pun, goes deep into the world of extreme cave diving, which, you know, we've recommended some books in the past like Shadow Divers, which seemed to resonate with people. And I think if you like that book at all and that kind of style of writing and that type of story, I think you should check out Raising the Dead about kind of the tragic tale of this attempted body recovery at Bushman's Hole. Along the same lines, I just picked up a book called Blind Descent, which was written by an author named James Tabor. And I haven't, I've only gotten a few pages into it, but it promises to be good, promises to be kind of along that shadow divers sort of theme of sort of adventure journalism. And the book is kind of broken into two sections, one that profiles the attempt to find the deepest spot in the world by one guy whose name is Bill Stone, who is attempting to kind of bottom out in a very deep cave in Mexico. And then the second half of the book is about a Russian caver who is doing the same thing somewhere in one of the former Soviet republics. You know, like I said, I haven't gotten into it too far, but so far it's, I can already tell it's gonna be one of those books I just don't put down. I think cave diving is one of those sports kind of like, you know, extreme climbing that I prefer to do from an armchair. And it's just great, great storytelling. So and then and then the final note is also a cave diving note. And that is this guy, Bill Stone, who was featured in the book Blind Descent. He's actually a really fascinating guy. He started out as a cave explorer, but he's also an engineer by training and an inventor. And in order to kind of push his limits, exploring caves underground, he's invented a series of rebreathers, which is a breathing apparatus that recycles your own exhaled air and scrubs out the CO2 so that you have a almost limitless supply of breathing air for very long times underwater. And in addition to that, he's explored all these deep caves, he's invented all this equipment, but he also has this grand plan to drill for oil on the moon and explore outer space. And he did a TED talk that we're going to put a link to in the show notes that is, it's just fascinating, if not for the topics, but for the guy, I mean, you listen to this guy, and you just believe him, you think he, he can accomplish all this stuff, because he's just so smart. And his ideas are just, he just approaches them very rationally. But it also makes me wonder, like, when does this guy sleep? Because he's just doing so much stuff. And it was pretty inspirational. So check all that out. I think it's, you know, whether or not you're into cave diving or diving or any sort of extreme adventure, I think he's, he alone is just a fascinating person. |
| James Stacey (host) | Yeah, Bill Stone seems like really pleasantly crazy. Yeah. In that he doesn't seem encumbered by the normal limitations that people present on themselves, almost like an Elon Musk. Yes. Sort of character where like, why not appears to be his general opinion of everything. So somebody probably told him like, oh, you can't dive in a cave for that long or that far. And it was, well, why not? I'll just, we'll do this. Well, you can't do that. Well, why not? I'll watch. Yeah. Like, and he just seems like a guy that seems really fueled by other people's inability to see the solution. Right. In many things, his TED talk is, is strangely wonderful. And, and, and I, you know, I'm interested in that blind descent, I haven't read that. And then going back all the way to Raising the Dead, man, if it's fantastic, long, like long work, it's really well written, there's a great story behind it, you know, doesn't involve Bill Stone directly, but it's based upon the tech, the legacy of his technology. And there's some fantastic storytelling and some fantastic characters. And I find that the stuff about diving, much like in the way with astronauts and with race car drivers, it often circles around the personalities. And I think that it might be as simple as like the people writing it can't believe what these people are doing. Yeah. |
| [pause/background noise] | Yeah. You know what I mean? |
| James Stacey (host) | Like there's a few things where you can kind of feel the author in the Raising the Dead. And there was another article, which I'll throw on the show notes, called To Hell and Back, that I really enjoyed that you linked me. But in both of those, you kind of could feel the author, you know, coming through the skin a little bit of the, of the post kind of being like, like, this is the reality that these people choose to put themselves in. |
| [agreement/acknowledgment noise] | Yeah. |
| James Stacey (host) | And it is astounding. It's astounding even as somebody who loves diving, how crazy cave diving seems to me. |
| Jason Heaton (host) | Yeah. I'm not sure if someone who is as into these endeavors as the people they're writing about could actually write about them. I think you're right. I think it takes almost a, outsider to kind of peer into this and say, these guys are brave and they're smart, but they're absolutely gonzo nuts, you know? |
| James Stacey (host) | Yeah. There's a, there's a wire, there's a bunch of wiring that's better. And there's, there's a couple of wires that aren't there at all. |
| Jason Heaton (host) | Exactly. |
| James Stacey (host) | Exactly. And it's not just cave diving, but cave diving is easily one of the most dangerous sports in the world. Yes. You know, it's a tiny circle of people and kind of like, uh, I watched a documentary recently about, um, the cliff divers, like the guys that do the wingsuit diving. Oh, yeah. So it's like base jumping. And then when you get tired of just jumping off of things, they have the wingsuit so you can kind of fly. And it's a sport that rapidly pushes the barriers, which means that all of this tight knit, tiny group of people who do the wingsuit flying are constantly losing their friends. Yeah. To accidents in the sport. And it felt just like cave diving. None of them were going to stop. And all of them were sad when a friend died. But all of the people involved and their spouses were all oddly on board. |
| [agreement/acknowledgment noise] | Yeah. |
| James Stacey (host) | With like, this is the crazy thing that we've kind of decided to do with our life. And there's something purely crazy about that. And there's something oddly human about it as well. Right. Which I think is really inspiring. And yeah, if you liked Shadow Divers, and certainly a lot of people have written us in to say that they enjoyed Shadow Divers, I think you'll enjoy the entire stack of Jason's picks this week. |
| Jason Heaton (host) | And as always, thank you so much for listening this week. Hit the show notes, certainly, for more details. And you can follow us on Instagram. I'm at Jason Heaton and James is at J.E. Stacey. And follow the show at TheGreyNado. If you have any questions for us, please do write TheGreyNado at gmail.com and certainly subscribe and review wherever you find your podcasts or grab the feed from TheGreyNado.com. The music we use throughout is Siesta by Jazzer via the Free Music Archive. |
| James Stacey (host) | And we'll sign off this week with a quote from alpinist and hero of the show Ed Vesters who said, Mind over matter. If you don't mind, it doesn't matter. |