The Grey NATO - 118 - On Paper, On Wrist // The Seiko SPB143

Published on Thu, 16 Jul 2020 06:00:16 -0400

Synopsis

Jason and James discuss Jason's new Seiko Prospex analog digital watch and James' new Seiko SPB143 dive watch. They go in-depth on the features, sizing, and quality of the SPB143, which James is very impressed with despite the higher price for a Seiko. They also mention the new video on Hodinkee about the refurbished Tudor watch that was damaged in the Vietnam War. For final notes, they share articles on underwater archaeology in Sudan, the black market for bourbon, and a photo essay on how giant ships are built.

Transcript

Speaker
Jason Heaton Hello and welcome to another episode of The Gray Nado, a Hodinkee podcast. It's a loose discussion of travel, diving, driving, gear, and most certainly watches. This is episode 118 and we thank you for listening. Busy week out there for you, James?
James Yeah, plenty busy week. It's been, um, I don't know. It's been a busy, I guess it's been a busy season, but, uh, yeah, a lot, a lot of stuff going on with, uh, with, uh, Houdinki and just trying to balance work. And, uh, I don't know, something like a life you don't really go out anymore. So that's kind of different, but, uh, yeah, it's been busy. How about you? Decent weekend for you?
Jason Heaton Yeah. Yeah. We had a great weekend. We've, uh, kind of, you know, as, as many people have during the pandemic, I mean, it's what it's a sourdough and it's a gardening and I don't know, a few other things for, for almost everybody these days, but we, uh, we've been tackling kind of getting our garden in shape. So we had a tree company come out and do a lot of some long overdue trimming and cutting down some, some kind of invasives and stuff like that. And then we kind of put a good effort in on the weekend and fit in a long bike ride. And I managed to, Do a couple of projects on the Land Rover. So it was kind of, kind of a hit all the high points this weekend. We had a little exercise and some long overdue projects and lovely. Um, yeah. And then we still had time to have a gin and tonic on the, on the patio afterwards. So it was, uh, it was good.
James Yeah. I'm glad to hear it. And, uh, you've got a, you've got a little trip coming up for next week and the weekend after this episode comes out.
Jason Heaton Yeah. So we leave on. I guess it is Saturday, yeah. So two days after the episode goes up, we're headed up to the upper peninsula of Michigan to do some camping near a place called Pictured Rocks National Lakeshore. So it's a beautiful stretch of lakefront up there in Lake Superior where they've got these sea cliffs that have, I guess they've had some seepage of colorful minerals that have painted the cliffs these beautiful colors and it's a popular place to go kayaking and that sort of thing. I managed to find a campsite for us that's on a place called 12 Mile Beach, which, as the name suggests, is a very long sandy beach right on the lake. And you can camp just above the dunes there, kind of in the pine forest. And so, yeah, we're going to do some car camping and hopefully not see anybody else or kind of keep our distance, which should be fairly easy there. And then, yeah, I managed to find a guy who runs a glass bottom boat business up there that's not doing terribly well these days. And he's, he runs a little sort of side business, taking people out diving. And I asked if, you know, if there's a possibility that Ghoshani and I could jump on his boat and if he can kind of stay forward in the boat and we can stay at the back, we should be able to do a pretty safe dive outing and dive a couple of wrecks. It's an underwater preserve up there. So they've got about a dozen shallow, like we're talking 30 to 40 to 50 foot wrecks, not unlike, you know, Tobermory up there. Well, you know, freshwater, some schooners and steel boats and things that are in really, really good shape. So hopefully get some good photos and just, you know, I'm badly overdue getting in the water. So, uh, yeah, we'll see. I hope the weather holds out.
James Yeah. I hope that, I hope that works out too. That sounds like it could be a pretty good venture and, and yeah, I'll be, uh, I will be, uh, just riding with jealousy. that you get to go diving. That's awesome. Yeah. Yeah. The only thing is if so by the time this comes out, actually the day we're recording it, I would give a heads up to anyone who might have missed it, but we did publish on Hodinkee the second kind of volume, the second part of the Long Return, which of course was this story about two Vietnam veterans that during an active conflict in Da Nang exchanged a watch. It went to a medic and the medic had it for 50 years and then they reconnected and he got the watch back. The soldier got the watch back. I highly recommend you check this out because it turns out that the story was kind of heartwarming and people kind of attached to it. And it turns out that Lieutenant Barry Jones, the gentleman who was injured in Vietnam and lost the watch, gave it to Laurie, the medic. wrote Tudor and Rolex and asked if they'd be interested in, you know, refurbishing the watch essentially. And of course, if you've seen that original video, the watch was in terrible condition. It had been shot by a bullet. It was all kind of twisted and mangled. It was missing, you know, a bezel and crystal and at least one hand. And it was in kind of rough shape, like really rough shape as far as watches go. And it turns out that Rolex, we can now talk about this as we publish the video, but Rolex was happy enough to take on that task and actually had a couple of their, you know, most senior, most capable restoration guys, um, tackle this task of rebuilding the movement and reshaping basically the entire watch, uh, you know, removing the hands, which had fused to the dial, uh, and, and essentially rebuilding it to be as original as possible with all the scars and the general damage and that sort of thing intact, but straightened out so it could have a log bar reinstalled and Barry could actually put it on his wrist or, you know, his son could wear it as well. And the video came out and people have been very nice on the internet, you know, attaching my name to it. I really just did the voiceover and helped write the piece, the words that went up on Hodinkee. It really is a win from Will's team. He's, you know, one of our most senior guys at Hodinkee, but he manages the video projects and between him and Shahed and David and Gray and Sam and all these other folks that worked on it. We were able to put this, what I think is a pretty great video together.
Jason Heaton Yeah, it was incredible. I mean, this is, this is like one of those Holy Grail stories. You know, it has every element that, that people like. I mean, it's a, it's a brand people love and it's, um, people like these, uh, you know, lost and found kinds of stories. It kind of tugs at the heartstrings. And then of course the, uh, the fact that, you know, Rolex came through and did this, which, seems like something that uh you know other brands do but you don't often hear of of a Rolex or a Tudor kind of taking on something like this and I um I think it just goes to show that you know uh especially our buddy Christophe at Tudor I mean he has a really um soft spot for kind of military use of watches anyway I think he's really into that and I think absolutely it was neat to see him in the video I kind of saw the uh, like a clip from it. I think it was one of the lead images or something on the, on the story. And I thought, is that Gary Sinise sitting there talking to these guys? And it was, it was Christoph. And, uh, so it was fun to see him in the video and, um, yeah, just tremendous work. I, I, I watched it a couple of times and it's, it's just, I don't know, it's, it's such a warm video. Uh, I just, I just loved it. So.
James Yeah, I would I would say, please, please go in and check that out if you happen to miss it. I would say there's probably a good chance most people listening to this also caught that video. It was probably one of the bigger things to come out of Hodinkee recently as far as editorial projects. And and yeah, it's something that I'm like, I'm proud to have played a small role, but I'm really proud of what the team was able to put together in kind of closing the loop on that story and those characters and that watch and all really nice stuff. So that was a win this week to see that finally go live. You know, some of that was recorded. uh, like a year ago. So it's, uh, it's nice to see it come together.
Jason Heaton I don't know about you, but when you, when I watch movies or TV shows now, or even a video like this, and I see people interacting like that, I always, I always get this like weird sense of like, Oh, they're not social distancing. They're not following. And then like, Oh, wait a minute. This is something that was recorded a long time ago. It's a movie. It's a show. It's something.
James Yeah. I think all the assets were collected in 2019.
Jason Heaton Yeah, I'm sure. It's just a, it's funny to see that now. So it's, It's kind of nice to see people interacting in a video during this time when we can't really do that.
James Yeah, I agree. It is kind of a weird thing to watch almost anything and then have to put it in the context of being kind of before or after. Yeah. Yeah. A lot of it. You know, I like the Goodwood Festival of Speed and the hill climbs and everything. And they're very clear with everything that they put up on YouTube that like this was recorded before the social distancing measures. And we just got around to editing it and turning it into a YouTube clip. Yeah, but you know, I assume they're just trying to get ahead of people in the audience who think think that they've got got their brain ahead of everyone else. So it's a weird thing. Yeah. Well, how about we bounce into a risk check? We got kind of a fun episode ahead of the revival of an old kind of structure that we haven't done in a really long time. But I think figure we could probably lean into lean into risk check first.
Jason Heaton Yeah, so I've got my long-awaited Seiko Safarni. This is the Prospex analog digital watch with kind of the new color choices that they offered this past spring. I've got the khaki strap with kind of the khaki accents. Just a really fun watch that I really liked when I first saw it introduced on Hodinkee a couple of months ago. The Arnie was a watch that just didn't appeal to me for a long time, and I don't know, for some reason these fun new colorways with the different hand set just really kind of spoke to me. So I have to, you know, give a shout out to Topper Jewelers out in San Francisco for, you know, such a quick turnaround, such a quick delivery on this. I put my pre-order down and then this thing just arrived I think last week, and I immediately strapped it on and just did a lot of kind of fun stuff with it. Took it, uh, took it kayaking and, and just really beat it up out in the garden. I think it's the perfect, perfect watch for that. I've never really been a G-shock kind of guy. And I think my Garmin is more of kind of a go-to athletic kind of watch, but this one is just the classic sort of chunky beater and, um, should be fun to take, uh, camping and diving and as well, I think it'll be really good for that too. So, um, yeah, so far I'm having a lot of fun with it. You know, it's a $500 watch. It's, uh, Certainly not along the lines of what we're going to be talking about today with your new Seiko, but for what it is and what it does, it's just a load of fun and it's a great summer watch.
James Yeah, I think those are super fun watches. I had the SNJ025, I wrote the hands-on for Hodinkee and found it to be a pretty fun thing. But I guess what I wanted was something that kind of disconnected it from the SKX aesthetic. And these two new versions, you know, there's the tan one and the kind of olive drab green one. You know, they have more of a marine mastery sort of hand set. And we've talked about this on a previous episode because we've been ranting with these for a little bit. But I think they're really, really good things. And I'm glad that you got one. And I'm also glad that you're enjoying it. You like that rubber strap?
Jason Heaton I do. I haven't had any temptation to switch it out. I think it would look great on a nylon strap, certainly. But I've always liked flat vent Seiko dive straps. And in this color, it's just, you know, it's perfect on the watch. It's very comfy. I don't find it too, too clammy in the, in the summer heat, even though we've had quite high humidity here, the, that sort of faux leather texturing that they put on the back of these things seems to work really well against the skin. So yeah, very cool.
James Yeah. Well, speaking of kind of dive adjacent or in this case very much a dive watch on a rubber strap, I will switch to the Seiko when we get to that part of the show. But currently I'm wearing, because I was photographing it today and writing about it, the new Zen U50. So it's their 41 millimeter version of the 44 millimeter U1, which is a watch that they've been making for about 15 years. And I think in that time, a lot of people kind of thought Hey, this thing is super rad, but also kind of big 44 millimeters, about 15 millimeters thick. Uh, I think a lot of folks kind of wanted something a little bit more day to day size, less, you know, diving over your wetsuit size, which is where that watch really makes a lot of sense. And this new one is, um, I mean, it's nothing short of fantastic. Uh, it's really, really nicely made. Uh, it's a Zen, right? So the, the, it has a great bezel. It has a great crystal, a crystal basically disappears. There's no, um, like, attempt towards a vintage aesthetic. They just get to make the watch exactly how they want it, like a tool. And it feels, it feels kind of has like a military feel to it. It's definitely feels very tool-ish. I know that's a word that's like overused, obviously, but with something from Zinn, I think it makes a lot of sense that that word specifically, the loom is incredible. It's keeping excellent time, which you would expect. The thing that I find remarkable isn't just that they went from 44 to 41 millimeters. They shaved three millimeters off of the case size. It's more interesting that they're able to shave a little over three and a half millimeters off the thickness, which really changes just it really matches. The thickness seems to really match the case size and then the lug to lug on it. And I think that it's just like it came together really, really nicely at, again, 41 millimeters and 11.15 thick and 47 millimeters lug to lug and all that with a 500 meter you know water resistant watch in a bead blasted hardened steel case and bezel drilled lugs it comes on um this kind of like non-descriptive very smooth almost velvety rubber strap with a nice curved buckle it's super comfortable it's cut to fit so you got to be make one cut at a time like cut one section at a time and slowly bring it into size but uh Really, really nice. It's, like I say, about so many things, but definitely about things at this size with 20 millimeter lugs, it sings on a NATO. It's really nice on leather and the drilled lugs just make it so easy. It's a good thing. I'm really happy with it. If this wasn't enough of me talking about it, I think at least if the schedule holds tomorrow, the day after this comes out, so the Friday, the hands-on will go up on Hodinkee and it's a good 2,300 or 400 words. about the U50 and my impressions with it. I think they should be very proud of the watch, and I think it kind of sits relatively alone at its price point.
Jason Heaton Yeah, I mean, it's such an amazing piece. It's such a unique aesthetic, which is so hard to do these days. I mean, everything from the, you know, certainly Seiko's done four o'clock crown placements, but, you know, Zinn has that. They have that unique bezel. The one you have is the black bezel with the not the black case, right?
James Mine's actually just the standard U50. So it's a the full metal. Oh, it is. Okay, bead blasted finish. Yeah, the SDR has the black bezel and then the U50 space S, the U50 S, it has the black and black.
Jason Heaton Okay. I mean, just so crisp. I mean, that handset is like nothing else. I mean, it's just, it's amazing.
James Yeah, I mean the only thing that comes close in my mind and aesthetically, I still think they're kind of different. It would be something like a Pelagos, where they have again, like we laugh that the Pelagos has essentially the artistic direction of a stop sign. You have to be able to see this. Yeah. And it's so clear and the U50, I think, does the same sort of thing. It's stark and fun and it feels, like I said, just kind of like military and hard and and capable and it's nice. I've been super impressed by it.
Jason Heaton Yeah. Well, let's jump into the main topic. So this is an area of the show or a topic area that we used to do. We did a couple of times, but a very long time ago. And recently a listener said, Oh, you guys should bring back the on paper on wrist topic with James's new Seiko. So we thought we'd do that. And even though we did a kind of a full on Seiko episode a little while ago, You just got this new watch. I haven't actually handled it or seen it other than on quote-unquote paper or on the web. So let's dive into it. So this is the Seiko SPB143, the kind of higher-end Prospex piece. Tell us, kind of give us the details.
James For sure. So a little while ago in April, Seiko announced four of these new watches. And I'm really only doing a quick recap for those of you who maybe didn't listen that carefully when I just kind of spout reference numbers, because this is a watch I've talked about on several episodes, but they launched four new versions of... Imagine... I don't think it's as close as kind of referential to the original 62 Mass, their first dive watch, as something like the SLA 017 is, but it kind of splits the difference where you get a nice helping of that sort of 60 style diver Japanese diver and a few other elements. But basically what they've done is they've taken a general Seiko dive watch aesthetic, again, something a little bit closer to like a Marine Master versus an SKX, and they've rendered it at 40.5 millimeters. And then the nice thing is the 40.5 millimeter case is less than 14 millimeters thick, including a domed crystal. So it's 13.7, and then it's about 46.5 millimeters lug-to-lug. On my measurement, I've seen a few other numbers, I've quadruple checked it. It's a very simple caliper. I don't think I'm reading it incorrectly. It's 46.5 millimeters lug to lug, which basically falls into my mind as an almost perfect size for my wrist for a sport watch. If it was a dress watch, I'd want it to be thinner. With something like a dive watch, I really couldn't care less. And I would say aesthetically, it sits pretty close to the 62 mass, but it has a wider bezel profile. a substantially wider bezel profile, which I really like, and then the date is a little bit more simple. Otherwise, a very similar sort of thing. Hands are pretty similar. It's bigger by a good couple millimeters than the 62 mass and a good one millimeter bigger than the much, much, much, much, much more expensive SLA-017, which is the re-edition from Baselworld a few years ago. So when I put this on Houdinki back in April, I, you know, I said it like in the tagline for the post, just shut up and take my money. And then I spent a bunch of time actually finding one. You know, when Seiko's announced something, they're typically not at any retailer for some time. And then, of course, we had viruses and other concerns like that, which kind of slow these things down. So as soon as I could get one, I did. That meant buying it in Japan. So technically speaking, this is an SBDC 101. but there's also, this is the black with the gray dial, stainless steel case with the hardened coating, and then it comes on a steel bracelet. They also make a similar one with a kind of brown tone dial, then they make one on a rubber strap that's kind of gilt with a brown tone dial, and then they make an LE at the top end, which is $1,500, which is this kind of rich, radiant, deep blue with some yellow accents or gold style accents on the second hand and a little bit of the text on the on the dial. Yeah. So I think, I think that bring people up to speed. It's basically a smaller Seiko diver and it runs a newer six R series movement, which is a not calm. Like it's common at this price point, but it's not common on a lot of Seiko prospects, divers there. It's starting to become more common. So it's a six hour 35, which is a 70 hour power reserve and a man has hacking and hand winding, uh, has a date display, which you have at a window at three. And, um, Yeah, I ordered it. I immediately popped it off the bracelet, but I can answer some questions about the bracelet. Should those come up? On a NATO, it's just about perfect. And the easy thing to say, and we'll say more in the next few minutes, I'm sure, because I'd love to get Heaton's impression on this thing from having not yet seen it, is for my book, while it's a little bit more expensive, it's also after owning, say, 20 or 30 Seikos over the years, this is the one that I want. so the value is in spades for me. But if you haven't been through the S. K. X's and the S. R. P's and the monsters and the tunas and the rest, then maybe it isn't because it is now we're talking about I paid twelve hundred bucks for it. My guess is the street price for these when demand dips in, let's call it a year and a half, maybe will be more like $800 to $900 and then up into say $1,100 or like around there. I think that they'll fall a bit like they always do from their MSRP, but that could take some time. So right now we are talking about a $1,200 Seiko dive watch. And that's coming from two guys who have really gone hard in how much value there is in spending maybe $300 on SRP 777. Yeah.
Jason Heaton Yeah. I mean, I think just you listing those families of watches that Seiko makes, I mean the Tunas, the Sumos, the Monsters, the SKX, the SRP, it's remarkable. There can't be another brand out there that makes such a huge range of different dive watches and entirely different dive watches. And here this one lands and it is like, you know, Size is so important when it comes to watch, it can make all the difference. And I think, you know, your immediate attraction to this watch is so stark because the watch is, when I look at a picture of it, I mean, it's so simple compared to like all their other families. I mean, this thing I've got on my wrist now, it's like, it looks nothing like that. I mean, there certainly could find some family resemblance to it, but, um, you know, this looks like kind of a classic old watch, but I liked the fact that they didn't, just mimic the the 62 mass formula like they did with the SLA-017. I think you know this one looks burlier, it looks chunkier even though it's it's a nice size. Like that wider bezel makes all the difference and I like that they kept that big crown. I think that's a real feature of it. I think if it had kind of a smaller nested crown that was kind of tucked into the case it would it would take away from it. This kind of has the same appeal that the old you know, the old Rolex big crowns or, you know, any old watch with, with a nice big crown. I mean, you're probably not using the crown much if you're wearing it, but, uh, it must be a pleasure to use.
James It is. And the touch points are better on this than what I've experienced at other, at the lesser pricing from Seiko. So the crown is a good place to start. Not only like it, it's just so much smoother. And then when it's open, there's no wobble. It's there's, there's more pieces involved in whether it may, maybe that's the tolerance of, of the tube or the actual stem or both. I'm not sure. The threading is better than any Seiko dive watch I've ever owned. The bezel, and I can try and capture what it sounds like because it's actually quite a bit more muted than I expected. The bezel is excellent. It's like 120 clicks, so you get a really smooth action and there's no slop. I mean, you have a half second wiggle if you really focus on it, but the fitting, the actual like tolerance to how the bezel fits the case is so tight that it doesn't really feel like there's any slop in there. I'm really impressed by it. There's easy things like the people always harp on Seiko for the alignment of the chapter index being a couple degrees out, usually around six o'clock. And on this watch, there's no chapter index. The bezel and the minute markers line up perfectly, which I really like. That's pleasing, of course. I really like, like you had mentioned, the relatively simple skin diver-esque shape of the case, I find to be just gorgeous. And it has a polished bevel along the case edge. And then you get drilled lugs, which I absolutely adore. It means you can use big, chunky Seiko spring bars that don't have shoulders and are never going to let you down.
Jason Heaton One of the unsung best things about Seiko too are the way that they attach straps is tremendous. I'm not a huge fan of their bracelets, but their spring bars are, you know, they're not going anywhere. And, um, you know, so this has drilled lugs, right? It does. Yes. I mean, with drilled lugs, I mean, like they're perfect. I mean, it's a huge thick spring bars. I mean, it's just, it's a tiny thing, but I like that they, they do that.
James Yeah. And then there's, there's also like little things. So it's applied markers versus painted markers and they're applied with a, with your, your kind of white metal surround. So there's a little bit more dimensionality to the dial itself. The crystal is really, really sweet as well for this price point because it extends slightly above the edge of the bezel, but really doesn't dome that much beyond that. So it only gives you a little bit of character as you turn your wrist, it catches the light in a nice way, but it's not this cartoonish thing that doesn't photograph that well. or distorts any element of the dial. Like I said, it takes a NATO really well, it's a stainless steel case back. So you're not looking at this 6R35 movement. That's not really the way Seiko rolls with their non GS product. I mean, you definitely in Seiko fives, you're gonna have a display case back typically, but you've seen those movements. It's fun to be able to see them, but they're not like a thing to behold. Very much workhorse movements. And I think with this 6R35, you get roughly the same sort of concept. So far, the watch has been like crazy accurate, way more accurate than I'm used to with a Seiko dive. So I've had SKXs that were negative 20 to plus 20, and that was roughly within spec. So when people expect a Seiko to kind of hit that 28-24 that's been adjusted in five positions and could probably pass cost, that's not typically the way their kind of workhorse movements function. They're a little bit more wabi-sabi in terms of how they keep time. Um, but they are typically very reliable and simple to service and the rest of it. This thing's just been dead on, like within a couple seconds a day, I've been really impressed with it that way. You know, the only thing that, the thing that stands out to me and I've seen it in a few other photos online. So, you know, it's hard to predict. It's hard to predict the exact like visual math of what I'm about to describe, but sometimes it takes like almost the entire day for the date window to align perfectly.
Unknown Huh? Huh.
James which normally they kind of snap in about two hours after midnight and then they're in place. And if you advance the date on own, it will align correctly on the jump to the next day. But there's something where sometimes it'll be seven or eight in the morning and I'll notice that it's just starting to get to where it should be. And other times it'll be like two in the afternoon. Wow. And it's very picky, but as someone who takes a photo of this watch and then looks at these tiny details to remove dust and stuff, I can notice it, and I'm sure other people would notice it. That's the closest I've come to finding, like, anything that bugs me about the fit and finish of the way this is made. And that could also be an actual problem with the movement. Like, mine could have a small problem or be slightly off in the way that it's resetting. Or it could be something that breaks it, like, has a break-in period over time. It's just I've not had a watch with a six hour thirty five in it and certainly not this new one with the grander power reserve and such. So other than that, I'm super impressed by the watch and the date one doesn't bother me in any like substantial way to the extent where I would say like, oh, I wish I hadn't bought it or I think that it's an actual problem. It's just kind of a weirdness that I can't I haven't quite I haven't had it owned it long enough to be able to tell if there's like a repeatable thing that's happening.
Jason Heaton But yeah. Hey, tell me about the Tell me about the bezel insert. Is it an insert? I can't tell. Is it engraved or is it a painted aluminum insert? I can't tell from the press photos.
James According to Seiko, I believe it is an insert because there is a slight edge to where it seats. But according to Seiko, and I've confirmed this several times, so if somebody has other data, I just want to see how they got that data. But I went through Seiko in Japan via our friends at Hodinkee JP, And I also went through the U.S. contingent of Seiko just to try and get everybody's answer, because the original press release said that it was brushed steel. Yeah. With Seiko's hardened proprietary hardening applied to it, which the rest of the watch and the brace that also has, which is a great feature at a thousand bucks or twelve thousand or twelve hundred bucks. And but yeah, I believe it's it has the greening of being a brushed steel.
Unknown Yeah.
James so we'll see how that takes scratches. If theoretically that might look really cool in a few years, I'm not sure. Yeah, I don't think I've ever owned another watch that had a black brushed steel bezel. You know, I've had some that have kind of like oris makes one that has a kind of a negative. What do they call that? Oh, like the relief Yeah, like a relief style engraved bezel. And of course, my Explorer 2 has an engraved bezel, but the only part of that that's black is the numbers. And it has this very difficult to redo vertical radial finishing. Whereas this one, the finishing curves with the arc of the circle, if that makes sense, like it was finished along the process of the circle. Yeah. I like it. It's got a nice, nice pip for the loom. I said this on a previous episode, but I was so excited to get a new Seiko in that had this great loom because I have a couple of the Doxes, right? And their loom's not amazing. The markers aren't that big. There's almost no loom. There's enough for a photo, but there's no longevity to the loom on my Explorer II. That's a 13 or 14 year old watch at this point. And it's there. If you hit it with a camera flash or a UV, it's fine, but it dies really quickly. It's not the kind of thing where you like, where I could charge it up before I leave my desk at night with a, you know, a UV and then wake up in the middle of the night and check my wrist and it's still glowing. Yeah. Whereas this is, and it's so, so small and comfortable. I've been wearing it to sleep. Uh, you know, if I'm in the tent, it's really nice to not have to figure out where to put the watch so that it doesn't end up under one of my shoulders or over, you know, yeah. under a sleeping bag or something like that. So it's nice to be able to wear the watch and it's just the right size for that. Yeah, pretty much all elements outside of that, the little weirdness with the date advance have been really good. And then the only other thing that as far as in person is the bracelet, and I want to be fair to everyone here because I know there'll be other people listening that have experienced Seiko's mid-level bracelets at other levels or at other times. This is the first time I've had a bracelet from a Seiko that costs more than maybe 400 bucks or 500 bucks. I always thought the best bracelet they made at the entry point was the one on the Monster, which is this really fantastic and super comfortable kind of big, chunky link. Bracelet and then this is a nice kind of three link a little bit more in the vein of like Like it's like it doesn't look like a an oyster. Yeah The proportions are different. The side links are a little thinner compared to a wider center link it goes to a fairly simple definitely common to other Seiko's sort of Fold over clasp, but then the interior hinge is milled as opposed to being pressed, which is quite nice. I think the outer assembly is probably milled as well because it's quite a bit thicker than you would get on like the Jubilee with an SKX, the really rattly ones. Yeah. It's got four micro adjust, which is super handy. There's no in the one side of the class. They don't have any other technology. It's actually the Seiko way of doing it is on the side that has the little fold over is where they hide one of their little dive extensions. So they do have a dive extension. It's a really clever design that if you've been around any of their bracelets for the last 20 years, you're probably well aware of. And then the links are nice. It's a tension pin setup. So you have a main pin that kind of splines the entire link. And then in the center link, there's a collar that actually creates all the tension. It can be a pain to size these sorts of things, but in my opinion, it is a fairly functional system once you understand the mechanics of how to size it. And then, really unlike any of the Seiko bracelets I've had in the past, the finishing's actually pretty nice. It's just a simple, like, functional kind of brushing across the entire top of the link, and then the sides are polished. But I don't see, like, a lot of variance. Like, it just, you know, like what you would expect from an entry level Swiss watch, which is going to cost more money than this. And then it's a captive solid end links. So unlike the, a Jubilee where you take the watch off, the link is supported by the same bar. Yeah. Uh, this end link actually is, uh, is captive like it is on a Rolex bracelet or on it, just nicer bracelets in general. And then the link itself is not a folded piece of sheet metal. It's a, it's a nice like milled, a solid end link.
Jason Heaton in this situation, although I think you've got the right choice. The bracelet's the way to go, I guess.
James Yeah, yeah. Well, I definitely, there was no way, I don't really like the other three versions. The LE is very nice and I have a co-worker who picked up the LE and he's very much spitting, spitting by it and I get that. I don't really like gilt, I don't like brown dials, that sort of thing. So it was really easy to go with the black gray. If I could have ordered it like head only, that would have been fine. Because I tried the bracelet on, it wears okay. I think it should taper more to be more comfortable and kind of suit the vintage case structure of these SPBs. But it's also really not that difficult to just like with the drill plugs, you can throw it on NATO. I've been wearing it on the Uncle Seiko Tropic style straps, which is lovely. I wore it on a real vintage Tropic strap, the one of those ones that you gave me. It's perfect. I haven't found a strap that it doesn't work on yet. I even wore it on these Hirsch. You know what a Hirsch Pure is? It's like the absolute no frills, really simple, smooth. It's the one that Jason Lim has included with various Hallioses in the past. It's nice and thin. So if you have a thin kind of case and thin lugs like a C4, it really suits the watch well. So it's really nice on that. Yeah, I don't know how much I have to rave. I will be producing an extensive piece for Hodinkee. We're working out some technical challenges for that, as like I said on a previous episode, the video team can help me produce something if we wanna do video about the watch, but I still have to shoot it. Sure, yeah. And we have endless construction at my home, which means I have to shoot it at night, which means I have to go to entirely artificial light. So I'm working on a big rental and gear and that sort of thing, but that's going to take some time. And I did the tutor as quickly as I could because I knew people were going to be, were already getting the tutor. And then with the Zen, it's kind of the same thing. I wanted to get the Zen done because I know that like watch buyers may not have any, they may have sold through them, but I know that that is an actively sold model. I felt like there was a little bit less pressure to put the pedal down and just crank something out really quickly. about the SPB when I knew that I don't think that it's readily available in the U.S. market. I still can't buy one in Canada from any retailer, like some of them say they might have them soon is kind of how it's going. We still haven't really seen the full launch of the Willard even in Japan yet. So that's that's forthcoming. So I will get to this and I think I'll still beat the game to the general marketplace. But at the moment, I'm working through how to really kind of give it a big write up, because I think this is a this is a watch that a lot of like Seiko guys have wanted for a long time. And maybe I'm projecting that. Maybe it's just me, but I don't think it's just me. The response for those watch online has been huge. I think they made a right call with the four versions. I think it'd be cool to see like a Pepsi one if they eventually do like a blue red could be pretty fun. That's a Seiko thing with the SKX009. And then who knows what other LEs. I mean, this is a brand at a corporate level that uses green probably better than almost anyone else. So a green one could be pretty cool. I think there's a bunch of options there. It'd be fun to see how they iterate the watch, but the short end of it is if you think like, oh, well, I've had these 50 other Seiko's and I kind of just want something that's like a little bit lower key, a little bit more simple. I mean, this is a relatively bland black and gray steel dive watch, but that's kind of exactly what I want. and it wears a lot smaller than an SRP 777. It wears considerably smaller than an SKX. I would actually say the SKX in some ways wears bigger than both of the watches, but bigger than the considerably larger SRP. Yeah. It's just a question of the way that the proportion and the tallness of the sides and the thickness of the bezel, the dish on the case of an SRP really absorbs a lot of that case. Yeah. And makes in that short lug to lug and they aren't overly thick and you can put them on your favorite strap. They always seem to work. So I think there's like I can't take away any value from spending three or four hundred bucks. Or we even we talked recently about the Kings, the King Turtle, the kind of slightly upgraded version with the ceramic bezel. And the fancier dial, and I think all of those are fantastic. At a certain point, I'm not saying that you needed to go out and buy one, but I wanted one the absolute moment I could get it, and I'm just literally thrilled with it. I will be through reviewing all the other watches I have, and then I know I will just go back to just wearing this 24-7 for the rest of the summer, and I'm looking forward to it. I've been really, really impressed by the watch.
Jason Heaton Yeah, I'm looking forward to your hands-on review with more sort of real-world photos because I find the press photos are very flat, very two-dimensional and I think with the watch with that sort of wider bezel and pretty quote-unquote plain dial it gives it just a very flat two-dimensional look and I'd love to see it from some different angles and on a wrist and on different straps and you've put up a few on Instagram but I just haven't seen a lot of live shots I think there's a guy over in I think the UK who, who got one, I think it's Chris has got one and he's put up some nice photos of his as well. And, and it makes such a difference to see the live photos because I, I'm not that compelled by it from just the kind of the initial press photos for it. I think if I were to go for one of these, uh, the blue Ellie, just because based on, just because of the, the, the kind of what I was saying about the press photos, um, I think it would just be a little too flat for me. I think, I think that pop of blue and that yellow or orange. coloring gives it a little dynamism that I kind of like. I also wonder, you know, to me Seiko kind of came into its own with kind of what everybody associates with Seiko, the four o'clock crown, kind of the funky flattened shaped case moving into an SKX type of thing. That's sort of, I feel like where their design language came into its own. And the pre-6105 Seikos don't feel distinctive enough. They don't feel Seiko enough to me. I think that's fair. Because just there's so many kind of skin divers style watches that have that same case shape. But I think if you're okay with that, and obviously Seiko being Seiko, everybody has a lot of love for them and they make just such a superior product for not a ton of money. I think it's a great choice.
James Yeah, I would agree. I don't think this is an incredibly distinctive watch. I think you have to be really granular in the Seiko space to see for what it is.
Unknown Yeah.
James I think there'll be a lot of people who go like, all right, I'm most of the way to an aura 65. Yeah. I'm, I'm well beyond a DOCSIS of 200. Yeah. Right. And I feel all those things. And, but I feel like, like Seiko for me is the brand. It's the brand that got me into watches. Um, I, I don't find that they have anything. I would aspire to own a grand Seiko, but they don't make anything there that like I have to have that is less than 20 grand.
Unknown Yeah.
James I would love to have a 252, you know, the anniversary edition of the 3180. That would be an incredible thing to wear and enjoy and appreciate and live in the history of it. And I would have loved to have had an SLA 017. Yeah. But this watch really took that love away. Like, I don't need an SLA 017. I like my Seiko's more inexpensive. I want to be able to wear it everywhere. I don't love limited edition watches, especially when they're actually limited, because then it feels like I shouldn't be out wearing it. And let's say it was a really wild carbon Doxa, that's perfect. Make that limited, that's fine. I'm always gonna treat that watch extra carefully. I don't wanna treat a Seiko dive watch carefully. Yeah, yeah. I want it to be my E.D.C. pocket knife of a watch that's just kind of always there and has been in several different oceans and has been covered in mud and I don't care about scratches. I can take it off and put it on the edge of a rock somewhere if I'm trying to rinse it off or something and not worry about it. And I think this one is I wouldn't want to spend a penny more and I paid for the size. You have to be in deep enough to Seiko to see it for what it is, because otherwise I think this will largely become a very bland watch within their lineup. And at a certain point, that is really nice to have if you've had everything else. It's this kind of like fun go-to. And then every now and then, and you can look back at previous like SPB, the 051. I looked at that and you're like, oh, this is so close to what I wanted, but I didn't want the big arrow hour hand or the lug to lug was three millimeters longer than I thought it needed to be. So there's so many times where most of my list was checked off and then there was a deal breaker. And with this watch, it was no deal breakers. It was in a relatively low key color. The sizing is perfect for everyday wear. It's still 200 meters water resistant. It doesn't make excuses to be a lifestyle watch and not a dive watch. the only hit against it is the price. And I didn't even have any, I didn't have one moment of like, Oh, CA Japan has the watch. It's I bought it immediately. So the price did not bother me. So at a certain point with some things that would be more price sensitive with, with getting everything on my list, I become a lot less price sensitive.
Jason Heaton Hmm. Yeah. I mean, let's face it, $1,200 people say, Oh boy, $1,200 for a Seiko is a lot of money, but $1,200 for a good watch when you're in this space and you're looking at what else is out there for $1,200, you would be hard pressed to find something as high quality and just as good as that watch. I absolutely agree.
James Anything else that you think we left on your paper side?
Jason Heaton I think I was surprised at looking at the sizing because I think size was a big reason why you kind of fell for this watch. Um, so I took out my turtle and I was, I was measuring it with the calipers and it, it's actually quite similar. I mean, it's about 48 lug to lug, a little over 13 thick. So it's kind of similar in those dimensions, but the turtle just looks, it's so fat, you know, and, and I think the dial is so it's not quite cartoonish. It's not a monster, it's not a tuna can and by any means, but you know, it, there's just a lot going on in this watch. Um, and I think the, the SPB 143 is just a more, it has a more of a refined look and I suppose the curve of the case, if it's what I think it is because I've only seen it kind of straight on in photos, I would imagine kind of hugs the wrist nicely and has that more classic old diver sort of look to it without being delicate like the like a 62 mass like if you held like an old 62 mass oh yeah they feel like like you you know like there's no movement in them yeah right right yeah so yeah i think um i think you nailed it i think that it's um
James It's this kind of like quiet, core Seiko that I'm really impressed by. It's not going to be the last Seiko I buy, certainly. I love stuff like the new Willard, looks really incredible. I love the Safranis and the rest of it. I'm not saying this is like the one to have and forget the rest of them.
Unknown Yeah.
James They make so many really good watches. The main takeaway from this, and I'm sure I've said it seven or eight times, is this is the one I always wanted, and I'm thrilled to have it.
Jason Heaton Yeah. Well, that's great. I mean, this was... It was a perfect opportunity to do the on paper on wrist and I'm glad we're kind of back to that because you and I, you know, different watches cross our desks all the time that the other doesn't see. So I think we should do this more often, but this is a good place to reboot things.
James Yeah, I appreciate the impetus from whomever it was who wrote in. I apologize. I did not make note of that. of the origin of that suggestion, but a good one nonetheless. And I think a fitting watch. And if there's still more that you want to know about it, just sit tight. I'm going to have a huge piece on Houdinki about the watch and its connections to the 017 and the 62 mass and the SPB at large, the somewhat middle range prospect sort of offering. So I think there'll be lots of other answers and details in that. Until then, how about some final notes?
Jason Heaton Yeah, let's do it. I've got two, you've got one. Let's do a bit of a sandwich here. If you've noticed on the past couple of shows, I've pulled a lot from listener suggestions, which is great. We love listener suggestions for not only questions, but also stuff for us to read and watch. And this one came from a listener, Jeremiah, who sent over this link to an article on National Geographic. It's actually from about a year ago now. And it's about... Underwater archaeology of a very different sort. This is actually diving under some pyramids in the Sudan. So there were some, you know, the pyramids over in that part of the world were typically sort of burial sites for pharaohs and royalty. And the most famous, of course, the ones in Egypt. But this selection of sort of constellation of pyramids that are in The desert in Sudan intrigued archaeologists, but they kind of left them behind to go look in Egypt. And one of the problems with these in Sudan is that they're actually sinking into groundwater underneath them. And one of the pharaohs who has his tomb below one of the pyramids is now underwater. And it requires sort of, I don't know if you'd call it diving necessarily, but these guys are having to go through submerged tunnels and hallways and down staircases that are, you know, like if you were to crawl on your hands and knees, you'd be underwater, but it's not necessarily swimming around. And, uh, so they're using in some cases, surface supplied air with a compressor and like a hookah, a long hose and wild. Um, so this article is, it's really interesting. You know, I had a little bit of exposure to underwater archeology with, uh, with that team in Mexico last year at the Cortez, uh, fleet, uh, dig. underwater there but you know this is this is just totally different I mean this is like they're in the desert so it's very hot topside and they go down these stairs and suddenly you're underwater and using tanks and surface applied air and and then having to kind of dig through this muck to unearth these artifacts so it's really a fascinating piece and just checking out some some cool photos and I think the writer was actually a trained archaeologist as well or had some experience in that so she speaks writes knowledgeably about this. So it's a really, really neat piece with kind of some good photos and some interesting stuff you don't see anywhere else. So thanks for that one, Jeremiah.
James Yeah, I scanned through that one. I haven't read all of it, I'll admit, but a really, really cool piece. And talk about like wild, what a wild job. Very specific.
Unknown Yeah. Yeah.
Jason Heaton Specific skill set there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Sort of like podcasting about watches.
James Oh, I suppose so. Just, you know, way less blindly going down old labyrinths underwater, hoping the tube doesn't get caught on something. Yeah, right. So yeah, for my pick this week, it's actually one written by a buddy of mine who's just recently started writing for Whiskey Advocate. So the writer in question is Sean Evans. That's a different Sean Evans than you would see on the YouTube show Hot Ones, but same name. You can find this Sean Evans at angry in paradise on Instagram. He's a great follow. He frowns on every photo. It's hilarious. But he's always doing generally speaking, he's always doing really awesome stuff. And I had the good fortune of crossing paths with Sean a couple of times on various automotive press launches. And he's a really sweet dude and a super talented writer. And I saw him put this up on up on his Instagram that he wrote a really interesting thing about the black market of bourbon. And it's a it's a really long post. I think he did a beautiful job with it. It's super detailed. It's full of like data and an insider perspective from people who, of course, didn't want their names out in the open. But if any of you ever were to get really deep into bourbon, this is something that I've only heard about from other people who were in deep enough to be spending hundreds and hundreds of dollars, thousands of dollars on bottles, is that the really good stuff often never makes it to the store. It's sold to middlemen that then jack the price way up and sell all of it like these kind of whiskey flippers. And it's so this goes through the whole. There was for a time a big part of Facebook that was dealing in whiskey shares and these sort of raffles where everyone put 20 bucks in to buy a really incredible bottle and then you get one like you might win the bottle. That sort of thing. So it's a huge like hobby and And there's various tiers of it. And then there's the whole structure of how many companies out there actually make bourbon, because there's a lot less than there are bottles with different labels on them. It's a, it's a really fascinating thing. And it's also something that's like, would have been very difficult to report on and then synthesize into a manner that like people would want to read. And I get that it's posted on Whiskey Advocate, but I honestly think this is, this would be like a loosely interesting human story for almost anyone to read. The black market of anything is obviously kind of interesting. uh we we all maybe spent time you know reading about the dark web and and the places where people buy weapons and drugs and stuff like that online you device reports that sort of stuff and this is a this is a really tight really nicely done story about what i think is a really interesting aspect of essentially like collector liquor uh that has these secondary and even like you know several multi-level markets huh yeah i started reading it and it's it's
Jason Heaton It is, it starts out really interestingly with, with these guys that don't want to be named. And, uh, you know, the really, I don't think there were any photos. It was all kind of these, uh, artistic renderings of people and kind of scenarios. And, and, uh, I think what fascinates me is this, even just the idea of collecting high end liquor, it's, it kind of goes against, it goes against my, my ethos. You know, it's like, if I want to, if I get a really good bottle of something, I really want to consume it. I mean, these are consumables, but, um, you know, Hey, we're, We're into watches and other weird stuff. And so who are we to judge? But yeah, good one. Yeah. A fun post. Yeah. So my second one is potentially behind a paywall, unless you subscribe to the New York Times, but this was a really great piece. Kind of more of a photo essay called how giant ships are built. And it's like I said, it's just a photo essay of the multi-year build of a giant container ship. uh... in a in a shipyard in san diego and uh... you know look at it full screen uh... this is stuff that's uh... at epic proportion these are just gargantuan ships uh... the one in question is is just huge and and to see how these go together uh... is just really something of the photography's great obviously very wide angle stuff the people look tiny uh... standing next to like the keel bulb or the rudder or anything on these ships I've had the opportunity to build I've had the opportunity to visit a shipyard over in, in Wisconsin, up in Door County that builds, builds and maintains some of these big thousand foot lake freighters. And the size is just, it's just awe-inspiring. And then, you know, to see these photos of a brand new ship being built from the ground up and how long it takes is tremendous. And so if you do have a chance to check that out, can get through that paywall or find somebody with a subscription. who will let you look, it's worth a visit.
James Yeah, it's a really, like visually just blown away. We start to think about these things and they're so complicated. Yeah. Like more so than buildings or traditional like large scale buildings. It's really an impressive thing that people, that we got to a point where we can build these. And yeah, the photos are great and the presentation's incredible. I didn't hit a paywall, so maybe you guys won't. But yeah, that's a great pick and That's a really cool thing to get the job to cover. I'm going to go take photos of a giant boat being built.
Jason Heaton Yeah.
James It seems like a good cool gig.
Jason Heaton On the other side of things, there's a famous photographer whose name escapes me. I think he's Italian, who did a whole series of photos about the ship breakers in Alang, southern India. So it's this place where when ships are done with their life at sea, they sail them to this place in southern India and they basically run them aground on the beach and then they use these massive winches to pull them further up the sand and then they take like months and hundreds of kind of day workers that are climbing all over these ships cutting them apart piece by piece and the photography is just this sort of weird otherworldly sort of grimy, colorful, bizarre stuff of these giant ships being taken apart piece by piece and cut apart. All right, well, we'll dig that up and make sure we get it in the show notes. Yeah, definitely. So anyway, that's that's it for for final notes. Good, good show.
James Yeah, for sure. So as always, thank you so much for listening. You can hit the show notes via Hodinkee.com or the feed for more details. And you can follow us on Instagram at Jason Heaton and at JECC and you can follow the show at The Great Native. Should you have any questions for us, please write TheGreyNado at gmail.com and please keep sending in those voice memos. We're a couple of weeks away from the July Q&A and we need more submissions. So if you've got a question, send it in. Please subscribe and review the show wherever you find your podcasts. And keep in mind that music throughout is siesta by Jazz Art via the free music archive.
Jason Heaton And we leave you with this quote from Antoine de Saint-Exupery who said, if you want to build a ship, don't drum up the men to gather wood, divide the work and give orders. Instead, teach them to yearn for the vast and endless sea.