The Grey NATO - Ep 108 - The Isolation Tapes Ft. Josh Perez

Published on Thu, 23 Apr 2020 06:00:23 -0400

Synopsis

This episode features a conversation with photographer and creative Josh Perez. They discuss Josh's journey from working corporate jobs to becoming a freelance photographer and starting his own creative agency SET. Josh shares advice for aspiring photographers on gear, developing skills, and the business side. They also talk about Josh's new lifestyle brand Pedro and Taylor, including the inspiration behind its recent photography grant contest. The episode covers topics like upcoming plans for Josh and the Pedro and Taylor brand, as well as recommendations for books, movies, and activities to enjoy during isolation.

Transcript

Speaker
Jason Heaton Hello and welcome to another episode of The Gray Nado, a Houdinki podcast. It's a loose discussion of travel, diving, driving, gear, and most certainly watches. This is episode 108, and it's kindly brought to you by our friends and colleagues over at the Houdinki shop. More on that in a little bit. Thanks so much for listening. James, how's it going this week?
James Stacey Oh, you know, I'm a, I'm a, I'm an inside boy now. I don't go outside.
Jason Heaton Fully quarantined, fully locked in.
James Stacey Yeah. I realized that last weekend I must, you know, I locked the door on say Thursday night and I don't think I unlocked it to go outside until Monday morning. So yeah, I live inside now. I do outside things in only virtual contexts.
Jason Heaton The boy in the bubble.
James Stacey Yeah, exactly. I'm sure we've got lots of listeners who got into a game called Zelda Breath of the Wild, but that's all of my outside time now. It's a huge map, but it has mountains that you can climb. It has all sorts of different forests and jungles and caves. And it's really beautiful. And there's something a little bit cathartic about that, where I realized that I was like climbing a mountain and I only climbed it to the top, which was quite a task. If you've played the game, some of these mountains are huge. You climb to the top just to look around. And I was like, oh, yeah, no, I'm not. I need to go outside. But it's a sunny day here, so I think I'm going to spend the afternoon editing this on the porch, which should be should be pretty nice. How are things there? I'm still seeing that you're getting some actual outside activity in around Minneapolis.
Jason Heaton Yeah, I mean Ghoshani and I try to get out for a daily neighborhood walk when we're here at home during the week. And then one day on the weekend we usually drive to a nearby, you know, nature area or something where we won't really encounter anybody. And, um, yeah, go for like a couple hour hike, bring a flask of tea and some lunch or something. And it's, uh, it's been pretty therapeutic, but it's, you know, Ted Gushue on his Instagram stories, he, every morning he shoots a little video of his, uh, his mocha espresso machine bubbling away and he calls it Groundhog Day. And it sure starts to feel like that. I'm all for routine, but it sure feels like every day is sort of bleeding into the next with the same, same wake up time, same going to bed time, kind of the same activities. Um, it's okay. I'm actually sleeping better than I think I have in years just because I've been going to bed at the same time and getting up at the same time and getting a, you know, a daily walk in and whatever. So it's kind of, It's been good in that respect. And I think we're probably eating better here because we're not getting food from outside at all or anything processed or anything. We're just sort of cooking something new every day. So it's, it's, it's had its benefits. Um, but you know, antsiness is starting to set in. I, I'm not eager to jump on a plane anytime soon, but I sure would like to take a little road trip or go camping or something, which would be fun.
James Stacey I mean, I'm jealous if I'm honest that you're sleeping that well, I'm really not. There's just kind of a lot stacking up for the next little while, and it's leading to that kind of normal insomnia, stress insomnia that I get sometimes when there's just kind of a lot on the plate, too much to be able to just unwind at any point. But this won't last forever, both the current wave of work and our current social scenario. But yeah, some camping would really be great. I kind of wish I even lived somewhere that had like an actual backyard I have a little stone patio full of raccoons where I live now. So yeah, that's all right.
Jason Heaton Yeah. I've got a knife of yours here that's been sitting here waiting patiently for your fiddling.
James Stacey You do, yeah. I'm excited about this one. So this is kind of a fun thing. So a little while ago we talked, I think it was a Q&A about knives. Yeah. And I had said that my go-to carry for a long time had been the Benchmade 556 Mini Grip, which is a knife that I really do genuinely love and would support anyone going out to get it. It's a nice, really usable tool knife. It's a little bit on the tactical side as far as it looks, but it makes perfect sense. Mine had a really nice deep pocket clip, which Benchmade was kind enough to send over. If you write them a letter, they may do the same for you. And I say had because Shortly after we recorded that episode, I must have been getting on one of the last few trips to New York, and I forgot that it was in my topo, in my topo bag, and I lost it to security. One of my most favorite knives. It was a 440 blade, it was maybe an $80 knife, it's not the end of the world. They're a little bit more expensive now, and it wasn't customized, it had no sentimental value, it was just my go-to tool knife for around the house. And that was gone. So then I started thinking like, oh, well, I'll buy another Benchmade. And then it turns out that a guy I know, Steve Laughlin, who's the dude behind Raven watches and then previously Benares watches. These are two brands I've followed for. I mean, if you talk about Benares, one of the earliest automatic watches I owned was a 44 millimeter Moray. So Steve, along with this guy, Spencer Marquardt, they've started a kind of small micro brand knife company called Finch Knife Co. And I'm a huge fan of Steve and what he does. He's a great family guy from Kansas, a camper and very much a TGN sort of dude. And so they started making these knives. And a lot of times people who are listening who know their knives really well will know that typically if you're a very small company making an interesting product, the price point's high. Mm-hmm. Everybody's in there against Chris Reeves. They want to make three, four, $500 knives. And I was kind of thrilled. That's more than I like to spend on a knife, but by almost a considerable margin. But it turns out that they're kind of small. I like a small flipper, an easy in-your-pocket sort of knife. And they make one called the Rently, which currently comes in three colors, although I think only black is available directly through Finch. It's a really cool little like kind of gentleman's folding knife with a liner lock, which is a pretty, pretty handy way to go about that. And, and yeah, it's, you know, they're about 140 bucks and I've got one of those. I had to get it because I wanted the yellow one. I had to get it through another, through one of Runtley's distributors.
James Stacey Yeah.
James Stacey So I bought it from them, and I would thank Bryce, who's a Jeep 99 dad on Instagram, for pointing me to this other distributor. And I can put a link in the show notes if people want, but certainly check these out if you want a kind of cool, distinctive-looking folding knife that doesn't look that aggressive or dangerous or tactical. It doesn't look like a SEAL Team 6 knife or something like that. I think this is great, and I was thrilled to be able to support another project from Steve. So you've got that for me now. It looks like it's got some really fun packaging. I think I saw a band-aid included. There's a band-aid, yeah.
Jason Heaton Which I find pretty funny. As you're talking about it and playing with it, and the color yellow, it's a great color, and I'm wondering, maybe you know this, what the material is for the actual housing for it.
James Stacey Yeah, it's a G10, so it's a fiberglass laminate, which is a composite, basically stacking layers of cloth, which is why you get that sort of texture to it, that woven feel. Yeah. And it's super popular on knife scales. And I really... They made one, this yellow one, which is called the Yellow Belly. They make one that's Ghost Green, which is also a gorgeous color, and I had a real tough time picking between the two. And then they make a black one, which is called Black Shiner. And to their credit in picking colors, you know you picked a good color if it sells out faster than the standard color, that's like a Hallios thing. Yeah. Is the, you know, the Bahama yellow or the, these deep purples or the pastel blue. Um, they go really quickly. And in this case, the ghost green and the yellow belly are sold out. I know that they're planning new color ways in the future. So it might be something to watch. I think it's a charming little thing. I'm excited to actually see it in person. I've watched some YouTube videos. So I have like an idea of the size, the blades, not that long. So it's going to be compatible with a lot of, um, with a lot of local restrictions. Certainly it isn't Canada here. That's a two and a quarter inch blade. which is a nice size, and I like that it's got a pocket clip, and the yellow really talked to me. I don't really know why. When I was a much younger man, I always liked those rescue series knives from Spyderco, bright orange, bright yellow. Typically, the orange ones, and I think this changed at some point, but back in the day, the orange ones also meant that they were a type of metal that was impervious to salt water. Um, so they had, you know, maybe you'd clip them on and use them in rescue scenarios, a SAR kind of stuff and, uh, really neat stuff. And I saw this yellow, the little logo on it, Jason, if you try this, the logo down at the base is loomed.
Jason Heaton Okay.
James Stacey All right. So if you hit that with a UV or really bright light, uh, it goes, I like this. Like I said before, I'm a huge fan of, uh, of Steven, what he does and Raven watches. They've got some really killer new stuff out, some smaller, 12-hour bezel stuff that I'd like to check out at some point in the future. And yeah, I'm excited. It's a cool little thing. I don't really know why I've decided I needed another knife. I certainly am not short knives even after the loss of that 556, but I don't know, this one called to me and it should be a fun thing to have at some point.
Jason Heaton Oh, it's tremendous. I'm tempted to pick one up myself. I'm just kind of turning it over in my hand, even closed, and it's And flipping it open and shut, the blade is this kind of chunky shape. It's just a fun... It's a fun little tool. Yeah, for sure. Yeah.
James Stacey Well, thank you very much for faring it or muling it or whatever term we're gonna use by the time you're able to get it to the mail. But until then, please, yeah, have a good time with it. I think it's a neat little thing.
Jason Heaton Yeah, well, this reminds me, speaking of knives, my birthday was last week and I got a really fun gift, a really thoughtful gift from my friend Myron, who runs Roverhaven Watch Straps, and he sent me He's a big Swiss Army knife collector and he actually found or had a 1970 model, 1961, they called it the Soldier and it's my birth year knife and he sent it to me for my birthday and it's just a wonderful little thing. Yeah, it's got that hobnail finish on the case and everything works really well. It feels just super sturdy for something 50 years old which Probably more than could be said for me. Um, but, uh, but yeah, really, really cool. So, and then, uh, you had sent me a buck knife to commemorate our hundredth anniversary a while back with a beautiful oak, uh, finish on it. And, um, I'm suddenly I have this nice growing collection of little knives and I might have to add this Finch to it too. So.
James Stacey I love that little buck that I sent you. That's one I've wanted to buy for myself for a long time. And the fun thing about it, if you've ever used there, you can build a knife on their website, basically. So you pick the size that you want, and then you pick what's in the handle. But that's the smallest knife that they offer that has an S30 blade, so a really nice knife steel blade. And it's Buck's S30. I know that there's lots of opinions on what tool steel is better than another steel. I have knives that have S30V, which is similar to what's on that Buck. The 440 stuff, the 154CM is like a high carbon steel. And then you get into some of like the true tool steels like D2. And I'm sure there's knife guys listening who are like, well, that's, you know, there's, there's some if ands or buts there. Uh, and, and certainly the steel thing is fun. But the nice thing about that buck is you can actually use that like a tool and it, it'll hold an edge really, really well and not require sharpening as often. Although when you do have to sharpen it, it's a little bit more work.
Jason Heaton Yeah, really just a beautiful knife. I took it hiking, I think it was last week and used it to cut some, some cheese and apples, which wasn't a big lift for that knife. Uh, but it's a great size, you know, tucked in my pocket and it just feels good in the hand. So yeah, kind of slowly, slowly becoming a knife guy.
James Stacey I like, I like a nice grandpa knife, which, which that one is, you know, those kind of like, uh, like, uh, you know, more simple classic sort of grandpa styles. And then I think the Runtly is a little bit more of a new generation kind of take on the same idea. Right. But I just like, I like any of them that aren't that aren't too tactical. Yeah. Uh, because the, the really aggressive stuff, you feel bad, like, using it in front of someone who doesn't normally carry a knife. Right. Or has ever carried it. That's why Swiss Army knives are typically like one of the best, because you can open a Swiss Army knife and it doesn't bother anyone.
Jason Heaton Everybody can relate to it.
James Stacey Yeah. Everyone's seen one. Everyone got one in Boy Scouts or has seen them and they're not that threatening. But you know, so many knives look so threatening now. Yeah. But yeah, certainly, I'm casually definitely a knife guy and excited to see that run Lee. So. Speaking of another small company, you've got a little highlight for us before we get into the main topic.
Jason Heaton Yeah, as we mentioned in past shows, recently we've been trying to highlight some small companies that are maybe experiencing some new challenges with this current business climate during the pandemic restrictions around the world. And we're just trying to do our part by giving a little attention, showing a spotlight on some of these smaller brands. And today I chose Fraser Kit Company. Frazer is a brand we've talked about in the past. It's the brainchild of Colin Frazer Jackson and he kind of focuses his small product line on travel accessories. So he's got a wonderful carry-on bag called the Aviator, which is styled after like a pilot's kit bag. Then he has a nice dop kit, a bifold wallet and a key ring or key chain. So it's, It's all really high quality stuff. I have, I think three out of the four products that he has. I don't have the aviator bag yet. I would love to get one. Um, but they just use, you know, a lot of high quality materials, kind of classic designs with these kind of clever touches, like sort of plaid interiors. And he might line something with, with wool, like the inside of that wallet, um, lots of leather. And then the inside might have sort of a waterproof polyurethane and the dop kit. So it's, you know, resistant to kind of dropping in a wet toothbrush or whatever else or keeping in the bathroom. So yeah, just really cool stuff and you can check it out at FraserKit.com slash shop as he's got the products listed, some nice high quality imagery there. And just nice to support a guy like that, even though we're not able to get out and travel, you can certainly use most of the stuff around the house. And then if you get that aviator bag, you can keep it packed and ready to go for when things open up again.
James Stacey For sure. Yeah. Good pick. Yeah. So let's dip into this week's risk check. Yeah, what are you wearing? I went with the Explorer 2. I've been wearing it a bunch the last few days and kind of... I don't know, it's definitely my most favorite watch that I've ever owned. And out of boredom, more than anything else, it was on a NATO and had been on a NATO for months. I put it on the actual Rolex Oyster, and it's just perfect. I mean, it's just fantastic. I don't typically love bracelets, but I don't know what it is, maybe it just you know, it's that, you know, you kind of move between one thing or another for just general refreshment. But I mean, I've been wearing... I had worn this watch quite a bit on a Hadley Roma 20 millimeter Jubilee, you know, with folded end links, a $50 bracelet and was happy because of the way it looks. But you put it on the Oyster and it looks pretty good. And, you know, I think it looks like a Rolex all of a sudden, like very much like a Rolex. Yeah. But there's something about the way this bracelet sizes just perfectly for my wrist. So it's super comfortable. it's
Jason Heaton you know, stamped clasp and kind of hollow link or hollow end link versions. Yeah. They just look good on the wrist. You sort of see your wrist from afar or catch your glimpse in the mirror or something. And it just conjures up this sort of, you know, timeless old explorer feel to it. You know, like so many people wore these watches. And the other nice thing about those bracelets too, is they snap on and off so quick and easy that if you're moving from one activity to another, throw on your, your garment, go for a run or go exercise or take it off to tinker with the car or whatever else. Like a bracelet, just so easy to snap off and set aside rather than fiddling with a strap and trying to get the whole, you know, lined up and all that sort of thing.
James Stacey So yeah, good, good call. Sure. You've got a really fun one. So what's on risk today?
Jason Heaton Yeah. So I've, I pulled out a very summery watch. The weather's improving here. I've got on a vintage Aquastar Regatta or Regatta watch. So it's there. They made this for many, many years since the early sixties. It's the regatta countdown complication with the five discs that turn from silver to blue and then back to red to count down the start of a sailboat race. And a big orange center seconds sweep hand that just continually goes until you reset it. Just a beautiful domed crystal and this tonneau shaped case. It's a single pusher mechanism and I've got it on a navy blue NATO right now and I don't know. Didn't really wear it much all winter. It feels much more like a warm weather watch, especially on this blue NATO. It just feels like you want to put on a pair of shorts and a polo shirt and go down to the lake or something like that. But, uh, yeah, that's what I've got on. It's, uh, it's just a really fun piece.
James Stacey That's great. Uh, that is such a cool watch, uh, obviously a killer brand in the history of, uh, dive watches and dive, you know, aquatic watches. And, uh, I, there's something great about those, uh, regatta functions that, that layout specifically, which of course we also saw from Tag Heuer and a few others. Really, really fun complication that is super light on risk. I mean, it's just fun and cheerful. Yeah. All right. Well, I think it's about time to dip into our main topic, which is an isolation and socialization chat with our buddy Josh Perez, photographer, marketer, podcaster, yeah, multi-hyphenate kind of super creative. But before we get to that, I would like to do a quick ad break, and that would be for the Hodinkee Shop. So that's shop.hodinkee.com. And as we've said weekly since we started the isolation tapes is this is only possible because of the Hodinkee Shop. So if you want to support the Graynado or Hodinkee Radio or Hodinkee, whether it's a favorite writer or the staff at large, please do so through the shop. Find a new strap, maybe a new tool, you want to change straps, we've got tools. Maybe grab a book to pass some evenings in a more classic fashion, learning about your favorite watches or their histories or the brands they're in. So yeah, any purchase from shop.hodinkee.com is considered a very helpful and welcome support for TGN and what Jason and I are up to. And we hope you've enjoyed the weekly episodes so far. So let's get to this chat with Josh. As I mentioned, Josh is a very talented photographer. He runs, co-runs a studio based in Denver. He also does all sorts of freelance projects and he's launching a new brand called Pedro and Taylor, which is the same brand that we partnered with to support a recent photography contest on Instagram. So to hear a little bit more about Josh's background, uh, you know, the brands that he's worked with, how he approaches his work and then where he sees the future of both his brand and creative work going, uh, in the next little while, please, uh, check out this chat. So let's get to it. Hey, Josh, how you doing? Thanks for coming on the show. Hey, thanks.
Josh Perez Really appreciate it.
James Stacey Yeah. Yeah. No, it's absolutely a treat to have you. We're calling these, um, uh, isolation, socialization, socialization. And, uh, and we did one last week with Cole Pennington, who I'm sure, you know, at least tangentially from the online space or you, you spent some time in Europe with Cole.
Josh Perez Yeah. We went to Denmark. I don't think, I think it's a little too early to talk about what we were doing. Yeah. It was right before all this COVID stuff kicked in and yeah, it was awesome. I landed in Europe and met up with Cole, spent a couple of days with him.
James Stacey Yeah, I mean, Cole's a treat, and we had him on, and Heaton was on that one as well, so it's kind of a three-way combo. With this one, I thought it would be fun just kind of you and me kind of reuniting the McLaren F1 dream team here. Yeah. And yeah, I guess we should have called Bannon as well for this, but he certainly sends his love. And yeah, so I guess that's easy place to start is I could try a loose intro here. Josh Perez, Instagram wonderkind, kind of a multi hyphenate at this point, but a photographer is probably your core, a creative slash branding kind of maven. And then you're now branching into like hard goods, which we can get to in a couple of minutes. But you and I met because you got assigned to a story that, if I'm honest and being really without ego here, I would have liked to have shot myself. And it was a story that I wrote for Hodinkee magazine on the McLaren F1. And we met up in Virginia, kind of rural Virginia, and met up with a car collector. It was you, me, and Ben. And met up with a car collector and spent almost two days with one of the most special cars in the world. And that was kind of my first experience with you. And it's been a blast getting to know you.
Josh Perez Yeah, thanks. Likewise, it's been awesome. Wish we could hang out more. Yeah, that story was amazing. I remember Getting there though and being a little nervous because it was kind of raining. I got there, I think it was a half day or a day before you guys and started driving around and, you know, I was just nervous we wouldn't be able to pull out the car. But weather was amazing and the roads in Virginia are pretty perfect for that sort of vehicle.
James Stacey Yeah, I thought the car is incredible for sure. I thought the photos turned out beautifully. And the thing that I think in my mind will always remind me of that kind of scene was that So often when you see these cars, these really amazing cars being shot, they're shot in the same four or five places around the world. It's the L.A. Canyons, Angeles Crest, etc. It's, you know, the Wales, Scotland area, you know, rural England, rural U.K. kind of scenes. And then you get the stuff that's more like the Mediterranean, if it's a Ferrari Portofino or something like that. And then it's otherwise it's like race courses and things where they then digitally change the background. And I thought this Virginia scene, which was kind of a low rolling hills, a lot of green, a lot of dappled light, gave it a feeling that was really tied to where the owner lived and how he kind of saw that car in general. And I thought it came together nicely. So if you haven't, if you guys haven't seen Josh's work on that story, you should definitely, you should definitely dig up a recent issue of Hodinkee Magazine. That was in volume five.
Josh Perez Yeah, it was really cool to seeing, uh, or just the way we photographed the car, the McLaren in front of that gas station. Uh, that was just one of my favorite shots. Just finding that old rinky dinky gas station and pulling up with a McLaren F1.
James Stacey I think, I think they were still selling gas out of one of one of the pumps, but it looked like something from 1980 that nobody had done anything more, you know, like some, it could have been a set for a zombie movie or something like that, you know, kind of a, a rural gas station, but the people were nice. And yeah, every now and then I find definitely didn't happen every time I was in shooting cars, but every now and then you fall, you kind of come across just the right kind of set piece, um, which gives just enough interest without taking anything away from the car.
Josh Perez So yeah, that shot in the interior setting up the interior shot, just trying to capture, I mean, it's one of the most unique interiors out there. And so spent, I think we spent like three, four hours just trying to nail down that one shot, you know, And then I'm in there trying to make sure my camera gear is not messing up anything in the vehicle and just being extra cautious.
James Stacey Yeah, I mean, it's probably a $15 to $17 million car or something like that. So always a fun. But that was a great one. And we don't have to reminisce for too, too long on something like that. That was our start, but I would love to hear about your start on the path to being kind of a self-made creative. Where did you make that transition out of maybe a more conventional path Yeah. Into doing, doing what you wanted to do.
Josh Perez Yeah. So I actually, I started shooting in high school, um, with a Minolta Maxim 3000, uh, just a automatic film camera. And, uh, it was, it was a fun hobby and something I took a lot of interest in from an early age. But I think in, you know, in early education or even in, uh, through high school, no one really teaches you how to make money as a creative. And so, you know, I think there's a lot of young people who want to start, want to, you know, make a journey into that sort of career path and don't really know how. So that was kind of me. And then went to college, studied philosophy, um, long story short, got into kind of architectural development through, uh, some different paths that life took me in and then, um, decided I didn't want to do any of that. Packed up a U-Haul with my wife. I was living in North Carolina, packed up, packed up a U-Haul with my wife and, uh, we drove to Colorado with nothing lined up. My wife's a nurse. Um, we arrived here and I went to a party with, uh, that Topo designs was throwing. Uh, I know you guys have talked about Topo on the podcast. Um, and then at the party, Mark Hanson, one of the co-founders pours me a shot of whiskey and, uh, he's like, Hey, you should work for us. So that was, that was sort of, uh, yeah. One of those things you can't really make up. It's just, you know, right time, right place, right person. Um, I thought he was drunk and kidding. And sure enough, the next day, uh, they reached out and I ended up working with Topa designs, um, and being in Colorado, just, you know, being outdoors, hiking, climbing, uh, doing all the adventure sports. I started, I picked up a camera again. So it'd been kind of from the early days of high school that the Minolta, um, it actually broke, uh, right before I went on a trip to Africa when I was in high school. Um, I did this kind of exchange, trip to Africa, uh, the camera broke and then I took it as a sign like, Hey, maybe I should just put cameras away. Um, and I was pretty bummed. I couldn't document my trip to Africa, uh, the way I wanted to. So, but years, years pass and fast forward, I pick up a camera again. I got a Canon 70D, which is a just introduction kind of amateur pro amateur ish. Um, about, I guess now it'd be five, six years ago. started shooting again. And it was right when Topo Designs was really picking up and getting a lot of attention. And I guess Chaco, the footwear brand, they make the sandals and boots. So Chaco reached out to Topo and asked who's shooting at work. And they mentioned I was one of the people shooting and they asked me to shoot a campaign. I'd never had a client before. And, you know, Chaco is a good-sized company.
James Stacey Did you have that like, what is a campaign exactly question in your mind? Oh, a hundred percent. I'll just keep making it up.
Josh Perez A hundred percent. I picked up a Canon 70D just out of fun. You know, I was climbing a lot and going on all these adventures and really just wanted to document it for myself, which I think brings out the best in photography when, you know, when you start shooting stuff you're passionate about for yourself. But yeah, Chaco reaches out, asks me to shoot a campaign. I start Googling. you know, what's it, how to shoot a campaign and just Googling all the questions, asking every creative friend I know. And yeah, shot that campaign went really well. They were pleased, sent them as my first invoice as a creative. And after that, just, it was kind of that wave in the adventure world where a lot of these micro brands, so about 2015, a lot of these micro brands started popping up and now they're, they're not so micro anymore. But, you know, brands like Forsake Boots or, um, Cotopaxi, you know, all sorts of brands that until I'm 14, we're kind of starting to pick up and, uh, started shooting for a lot of those brands. Um, Instagram was also, you know, taking off on a whole new level. People were starting to, I was kind of catching that first wave of people using Instagram for work and using it professionally. And I remember going through and deleting my entire feed for the most part, and just trying to make it seem more professional, you know, deleting anything that had those cheesy filters on them and, um, just starting to upload only professionally shot stuff, finished stuff. Yeah, exactly. And so that was kind of my introduction into beginning to shoot for brands and, um, working at Topa designs. I was also getting to see the behind the scenes of what it takes to build a brand. And so my role there, I was their fourth employee. And so just got my hands on, wow. And everything, uh, whether it was like, You know, in the morning I'd wake up and go to the shipping the units. At the time they just had storage units, not even a warehouse. Started packing boxes and then we go and do some social media stuff. Then we open the retail store, then back to the shipping container. So yeah, I was getting all sorts of really cool experience with Topo. Started shooting more for brands and leave Topo, go and become a creative producer at a tech startup in Boulder, Colorado. Got interested in the tech world and then realized I want to be a little bit more back in the adventure space. actually pulled it up and research for this. So in November 23rd, 2015, Chris Burkhardt messaged me. And if you don't know who Chris Burkhardt is, he's probably one of the bigger names in the adventure photography space and even films. He's got a handful of films now, a handful of books. So Chris Burkhardt, November 23rd, I was working at this tech startup and he reached out to me, asked if I was interested in kind of joining his team out in California. And, um, that's rad, you know, for different reasons ended up turning down that position. But for a long time, you know, my creative journey was moved pretty quick and I was struggling a lot with the imposter syndrome that I think a lot of creative struggle with, whether it's writing or photography, making films, even recording podcasts. I mean, you know, first time in anything it's, it's scary. And I think most people deal with the imposter syndrome. Yeah. Chris reached out. And then, uh, that kind of was a huge boost for me. Ended up turning down the position, but realized that maybe I could do this for myself. And so left the tech startup, started working for myself. Um, and then one of my kind of clients, uh, Rab equipment, British outdoor brand, of course, some of the best outdoor gear out there. Um, especially down jackets. They, they asked me to kind of join their team. And so went in house with those guys spent years there. Actually, if, if I, Backtrack a little bit after Chris Burkhardt offered me a position and ended up moving past that. There was this guy Dan Opendegrass. He's, uh, at the time he was the head of photography and video at Arc'teryx. Amazing creative, um, back in the day used to do a lot of snowboard photography. And, you know, even Jeremy Jones is referred to him as, you know, one of the photography gods in the snow sports. Um, and to me, I was like, I've always looked up to certain photographers and really try to reach out to them. I'm never scared to reach out to individuals and ask for advice. And so I emailed Dano and he was super nice, replied to me because he was in Oslo, uh, waiting out some weather for a shoot for Arcteryx, had some, had some time on his hands and replied to me, gave me a bunch of advice. And, you know, at the end he just said, Hey, if you, if you put all this advice to work, you'll be fine. And, um, later fast forward, I'm in Nepal, uh, in 2000, 16. Um, and I see these guys just jumping out of helicopters. They're just skydiving. And I was like, man, one, it's expensive to rent helicopters near Everest. So I'm like, what are these guys doing? They were shooting a film. Um, I don't, I actually don't know if the film ever came out, if it, I'll send it to you if I can find it. But they, I could tell they're all American guys. I saw them from a distance and then, uh, ended up getting in touch with those guys. Turned out they were from Boulder, Colorado. And we live 30 minutes apart from each other, but we met all the way in Nepal near ever space camp. Um, I was out there for a month, just trekking and climbing, hanging out. And, uh, so I connect with one of those guys in Boulder. We start grabbing lunch, become friends. Um, me and this one guy, Jake, we climbed Mount Rainier together a couple of years, a couple of years ago, become close friends. And one day he's like, Hey, Uh, a company I'm working for, we, we need a photographer. Um, if you can come meet the creative director, who's going to be on the shoot and the next like 30 minutes, you can probably get the job. And so I rush over and sure enough, the creative director was Dan O'Pentagrass. And so I get the job. We're in Wyoming on this Overland, uh, trip. Um, we're just way out there and Daniel's like, I really want this one shot. I sh I shoot the photo. that he was really wanting a sunset in the sand dunes. And he looks at my camera in the viewfinder and he's just like, Hey, that's, that's going to be a hero shot. And I look over to him and I said, Hey Danny, you remember a couple of years ago, this young kid that emailed you asking for a bunch of advice. That was me. So yeah, so crazy, you know, three years in between, but I'm here reaching out to head of photo and video at Arc'teryx. And then a couple of years later, um, you know, photographing right next to him. and getting the shot and he has no idea it's me. Um, and all through meeting some people in Nepal. Um, so anyways, that's kind of my short journey, you know, from Chris Burkhardt to Daniel and all that.
James Stacey So it seemed, it seems like Burkhardt was probably like the turning point for you where you realize, Oh, this isn't, this doesn't have to be a B or a C thing in my life. This could be the a thing. Um, because I have the support of, of someone who's made it there a thing at a really high level. Like Chris is, He's huge. I mean, the guy's one of the big names in that sort of work. And certainly, we've talked about him a ton on the podcast, but if you're listening and you don't follow Chris, I'll yet again put his Instagram in the show notes. You should definitely give him a follow. He's fantastic, as is his personal account with his family, catching snakes and all that kind of stuff. He's hilarious.
Josh Perez He's great, for sure. Yeah, some amazing pet llamas. Yeah, I think they're llamas. Yeah.
James Stacey Yeah. Yeah Like whatever it is with the sunglasses on his yeah. Yeah, that's fun. Yeah, but what do you what would you attribute your? The ability to bounce from the from kind of one opportunity to another is it just that you were really like this is what you had decided you were hungry for and you were committed so when you were given a half an hour you were there in 28 minutes like What do you think was the mindset that allowed you to make these changes, to make the moves?
Josh Perez Yeah, I've always... I mean, a couple of things. I love people. I think I bring a human nature to my work. So I think that's something I credit success to. You can be the most amazing technical photographer, out there, but if people don't want to be on set with you for a couple of days, you're not going to get a job. Right. Um, I mean, if, if you didn't enjoy your time with me, you probably wouldn't, I probably wouldn't continue to shoot with her dinky. Yeah. I mean, absolutely. I think there's that aspect as far as, you know, the hustle goes. Um, I really just enjoy growing and, and I'm never content, I guess. Um, whether it's, uh, behind the camera or from a operational standpoint as a business, For me with Chris Burkhardt, the biggest thing that I took away from it was, so the role he was wanting to bring me in for was an operational role. And I realized, hey, maybe I actually have the experience I need to create a photo business and a creative business. I think there's a lot of amazing photographers out there, right? But if you can't run a healthy business, then you're not going to last, you know?
James Stacey And in terms of that business, I think that brings us to more or less one of your more modern context. Why don't you talk about what your photography business is today and kind of how it functions? Because when you explained it to me, I had like 100 questions in Virginia because it's such a lightweight and flexible way of approaching client work rather than focusing on one hyper talented personality. There's this, there's this kind of load balancing effort that you've designed that I think is very clever.
Josh Perez Yeah. So set S E T T it's, uh, that's my studio. So set we're, uh, we're a micro-agency and basically what we do, you know, I think the best way to explain is yeah. Flexibility is at our core. And so Toyota might call us and ask us to shoot a campaign and you might receive me. I might be on set, you know, I've worked with Houdinki a couple of times now I'm on set. Um, but I get home and I'm busy. Well, we have an editor who, who's editing all of my stuff or, um, someone calls for a project in California for video work and we can crew up everyone in California that we need to. And me or my business partner, like we might not even be on set, uh, either one of us. Um, and so what I really love about set is that we're able to crew up to each project individually and provide clients with exactly what they need and nothing more. I think my business partner spent time at an agency and I spent time on the brand side. And I think brands get frustrated hiring, you know, huge agencies that you for your specific project and your needs. You don't want to be paying for all this built in overhead that they have and you end up paying for it. And so what we want to do is just create a micro agency that can crew up as needed for specific projects. But we don't carry any overhead when we're not working. And so We were able to charge clients and give them a rate for exactly that specific project. And, you know, we, we try and cut out all the fluff. Um, but yeah, we've, we've been able to, last year we worked with, you know, brands like Disney and Toyota HP computers and had some amazing clients. And, um, you know, sometimes it's a crew of 20 people and sometimes it's a crew of two people or myself. Um, I think the beauty of it too, is we're able to bring in the right creators for the right jobs. Um, you know, if we had, 10 employees, you're kind of stuck with those and those employees, right? And so, um, if Disney calls and they want something done and it's a very specific thing, I can bring in the specific creative for that project. Um, so yeah, it's a little bit about set and kind of what we're doing.
James Stacey Yeah. I encourage anyone listening to go check the portfolio out on their website because the work is so varied, which must be a huge plus for these companies that hire you.
Josh Perez Yeah. And like I was mentioning the human aspect of creative work, I think what brands really want to is that human touch. Um, and so a lot of creatives, unfortunately are hard to manage, you know, they're, they're wild and they like to do things their way. And I think what we've built a solid reputation for is being able to get a job done. And people know that they're going to be able to talk to me or Levi and no matter who we're bringing in, they trust us. They trust set to get the job done. And they know we're going to bring in the best people for the right project.
James Stacey Yeah, I would say that definitely in my experience, and it's certainly the output of the final product, how great the photos are, is super important, obviously. But, and I think you could attest to this, there's not exactly a shortage of people who are super handy with a camera. Right. There is a shortage of people who have that and also have the business all set up and ready to go when they get the phone call and are also nice and aren't late. and don't drink too much at the evening before the shoot the next day. You have to have all the pieces aligned. And I would say it's largely the reason that I've had any level of success moving through the watch industry is because I'm just not that, generally speaking, not that difficult to work with. I work quickly, I get my work done, I try and have a good time along the way. And the idea is you meet a lot of these people who are like, you're very talented. What bridges did you burn along the way that have held you back? And I think you have to It is trying to become that kind of well-rounded full package. Yeah. I would like to eventually get to some tips for people who might want to make this transition, this transition that we're talking about from a life where you're working for maybe somebody else or towards somebody else's goals versus towards your own. So that's generally a creative pursuit, but not always, but that could be up to the person. Yeah. Before I think we get to that, but because I think that could be a little bit more zoomed out than photography specifically. Um, it's, it's a popular DM and email and everything else that I get fairly frequently is like, what camera do I buy? Because I'd like to start out learning photography. And I I'd like your input on this. I have fairly steadfast opinions, but, uh, you and I shoot in different styles to different sorts of gear, but I think we see gear as very much just a tool. It's a, it's an expression of some talent that's already theoretically within you. Yeah. Otherwise you could just do all of it with a phone conceivably.
James Stacey Absolutely.
James Stacey So where do you stand on, not so much like what you would take on a kid, I know that you adore Sony and Leica, but could probably pick up just about any camera. You spoke about Canon, which is my background. It's more where you would suggest someone starts.
Josh Perez Yeah. I mean, at this point, basically every major brand has an introductory DSLR, right? Canon's released one and everybody's basically got some sort of intro. That's amazing. Especially with mirrorless stuff. Now, um, I think there's plenty of, you know, gear blogs or podcasts that really geek out. But, um, I would say, you know, pick something up and just commit to it, but, uh, pick up an introductory camera and just start shooting. And I think from an investment standpoint, um, for me, I, I rather invest in lenses than body. Right. And so for someone who's looking to grow, um, don't, Don't chase the best body out there. Try every single lens that you can and figure out the ones you love. Um, I think a great challenge for introductory photographers, or maybe even if you're already pretty skilled, but you're wanting to grow more is shoot on prime lenses for a while, right? Get a 25, 35, 55, 85, a hundred. And just if you can master primes, then you'll be fine. But don't zoom. Zooms are great. Uh, but it's a little bit like cheating. I think you'd shoot on primes quite a bit, right?
James Stacey Depending on the gig, I rent the Canon 70-200 L 2.8 maybe twice a year. Now I shoot everything on not only prime, but a camera you can't take the lens off of with the Leica, but with my Canon set, it was a 50-25 and a 100, which you can it's a portrait lens if you need it to be, but mostly it's for watches. So yeah, but yeah, I definitely primes primes in a cheap body for sure.
Josh Perez Primes in a cheap body is kind of my go to advice for young photographers wanting to kind of push themselves. You know? Uh, I mean there's, there's times where I'll show up to a set and I only use a 55 if I can get away with it. Um, and it, I think it pushes you to, it makes you do the work, you know, and not the lens. Uh, I love the 7,200. Um, It's one of my favorite lenses, at least on Sony. But yeah, same thing. I think the Prime just pushes you to find unique angles and you can't zoom in on something. You've got to move your whole body. Zoom with your feet, yeah.
James Stacey Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, I've come down to basically two answers. At this point, I think if you really want to learn and you have the money, buy a film camera with a really fast 35 and that'll develop your art eye, like the brain perspective. and you'll understand your exposure triangle very quickly, even with a camera with a very rudimentary meter like a Canon AE-1 Pro or something like that, AE-1 program. And then your other option is like, I was looking the other day out of interest because I got a DM, like a Canon 5D Mark II. You can still buy the batteries for that. You can still get them serviced by Canon if you bought one that was a little laggy in the mirror section. But I mean, those are $600, $700 cameras. That's a full-frame camera. And if you think back to when we were younger, like kids, teens, that camera is 20 times the technology of what was winning photo awards at the time, you know, 20 years ago or something like that.
Josh Perez My first digital camera was a Canon Rebel. The straight, straight variable, not the XT or anything. I think that was like six megapixels.
James Stacey Yeah. I think mine was a 12, uh, just a later generation of the same idea, but I can't believe like, especially just being able to go full frame means you could go out and buy that $120, 50, the 51.8. And like, you're done. You could, that could be your camera for life. If you really wanted to just walk around more. The fun thing is, is if you really enjoy photography, the practice is fun. Uh, so you just get out there and shoot.
Josh Perez Yeah. one of the cool things you could do too is just buy a cheap pair of lights. I think if you, if you can understand the way lighting works, it'll change everything you know about photography. Um, and so even in messing with just some basic lights, they could be as cheap as you want. Um, but just understanding the way light comes into your lens and the way it affects the subject and all those things, it'll messing with lights, even artificially will just make you a better photographer with natural light. Um, and so, yeah, I think, That's kind of my advice on gear. Stay cheap in the beginning and as you grow, rent as much as possible. I mean, I still rent so much.
James Stacey I love renting.
Josh Perez Owning sucks. You know? Yeah. Your gear's going to depreciate.
James Stacey Rental's a great business right off. Yeah, no, there's a lot of pluses there for sure. So yeah, if you want to grow, just grow by renting. No, I agree. I think those are good tips. And I think it also brings us to what I wanted to chat about next is the Pedro and Taylor Photography kind of grant. Uh, why don't you talk about some of the impetus behind that? It'll give people an intro to Pedro and Taylor. We talked about it briefly on a previous episode before the, yeah, the contest kind of popped off, but, uh, I'd love to hear now that it's done and the grants have been awarded and, and, and et cetera, et cetera, how you think it went and how this relates back to Pedro and Taylor at large.
Josh Perez Yeah. So, uh, pigeon tailors, the lifestyle brand, that's really focused on the places we come from, uh, not just myself and business partner, uh, but, the places where everyone comes from. I've spent my entire life traveling like crazy. I'm Puerto Rican and Cuban, Levi's Mexican, and we both have just traveled all over the world and really wanted to create a brand that celebrates global cultures and brings everything together. And one of the biggest things that we want to push with Pedro and Taylor is just our visuals. We're both photographers and really wanted to start shooting. We were so excited to start shooting our first campaign and Um, that got put on hold because of COVID. Um, we were sitting at home trying to figure out kind of what we were doing with the brand. Um, and you know, honestly, I just, I, I kept hearing stories about creatives who were struggling. Um, and here we were trying to launch this new brand and part of us, we were just trying to figure out how we could help our community. And toward the end of last year and earlier this year, we were entering the process of raising some investment and, uh, kind of made the decision to put that on hold for the time being. But we had, um, We had a seed round that we just put in from ourselves and, uh, we're looking at the bank account and we're like, well, what are we doing? You know, we can give back right now. We've, we've got the money as a brand, um, to give back and it'd be such a cool way to launch a new business by giving, you know, from a business textbook standpoint, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to give before you can even receive anything. Uh, we couldn't really, we had nothing to sell at the moment. Our inventory hadn't arrived, but we just felt, like it was the right thing to do for the creative community to give back in some sort of way. Um, and then, you know, I jumped on the phone with you and you wanted to be on board. And then, uh, rich Jeff Roy, uh, also was super generous and wanted to join the both of us. And so we were able to put together this, uh, photography contest, um, hit up a bunch of judges, yourself included Chris Burkhardt, Kyle Snarr, some other friends, um, ask people if they'd be willing to help judge, uh, photos that were coming in and we had amazing turnout. People were, yeah, the photos were amazing. Yeah. It was, it was really cool just seeing what people were submitting. The theme was a life of wonder, which is the, the mantra for Pedro and Taylor. Um, it's, it's a life of wonder is based off of a letter. My mom had written me when I was a kid, found the letter after she'd passed away. Uh, and I was digging through her belongings and we've just kind of really embraced that as a brand mantra. And we just wanted to, let people submit photos that they thought resembled the life of wonder. And it's cool because it can allow people to interpret that however they want, you know?
James Stacey Yeah. No, I think it's great. And certainly I'll put a link to the winning images and the winning accounts. We'll get all those in the show notes. That's a piece of cake. What does the next six months to a year look like for Pedro and Taylor?
Josh Perez Yeah. So, I mean, we're trying to figure it out with COVID, manufacturing globally is in a weird point right now, especially for apparel always depends on where you're sourcing stuff. But for us, uh, you know, we'll, we'll continue to release items as they come in. Um, right now we've, we've had a bunch of orders that are just stuck either in customs or stuck at warehouses and, and whatnot, but so for, for the time being, we'll be releasing products as they come in. But in the fall, you can expect the proper, uh, fall winter release. of products in a proper line in the traditional sense. Our next product or one of the products coming out in the fall will be a chore coat. And we really wanted to kind of do a throwback to something our grandparents wore, you know, Levi's great grandpa worked in the fields in Mexico and my grandfather owned a hardware store in Cuba. And, you know, we look at their photos and we look at all these historical pieces and we're just like, man, we really want to Bring some of these pieces back, like a chore coat with new materials and, um, a lot of flavor. I'm from Miami, Florida. And so the brand will have a lot of inspiration from Miami, Florida, uh, Cuba, Puerto Rico. We've got guayaberas, uh, which is the, if you don't know what a guayabera is, it's the button down shirt with four pockets on the front. It's a Cuban shirt, if you will. Okay, cool. Maybe we can link to an image of some sort on the show notes.
James Stacey I'll need a little bit of help with the spelling.
Josh Perez Yeah. And then we're exploring different collaborations with a couple of unique brands and different brands. Probably a little too early to talk about collaborations, but, um, have some home goods and some potential cigar, uh, collaborations in the works. Um, yeah. So, you know, we, we described the brand as if, if Mezcal was clothing, you know, it's, it's fun, but it's sophisticated. Yeah. Tequila is a little bit, you know, you take shots of tequila in college, but then you grow up and you sip mezcal, right?
James Stacey The only clear liquor that will pass these lips. That's rad. Uh, no, I, I'm excited for it. I thought, you know, I, I was, uh, you know, in preparing for this, I went on the site and saw the short coat, you know, the coming soon on the short coat, which will be a pretty rad. And the hats look incredible as do the, the flags, which, uh, we'll be launching soon as well. There's some, some pretty cool stuff there. Yeah. You know, talking about what things will be like on the other side of all this, I don't think we necessarily have to guess or make assumptions as to how quickly things are going to change and go kind of, quote unquote, go back to normal. But, you know, as we start to kind of wrap up this chat, I'd love to know what kind of big trip or plan or what you have on your mental horizon for when it's comfortable and the timing's right for your family and the rest of the world. to go out and do some life of wonder sort of stuff.
Josh Perez Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. The, it's been chaotic right now. My wife's a full-time nurse and I've got a three month old at home. So traveling's been like completely off my radar. But that being said, uh, so a couple of years ago I rode my bike from Seattle to the bit, to the trailhead of Mount Rainier, then push through climb Mount Rainier in a single push and then biked back from Seattle. Um, So it was a 16 hour push on the mountain and then I think it was about 130 miles if I'm correct. It's about 75 in the 70s. That's wild. One way. So call it 150 miles roughly on bike and then 16 hour push on Mount Rainier. And I've been dying to do something like that again. I landed in the airport, built my bike. I traveled Southwest with my bike in a box and I literally built it in the airport. Everyone's looking at me. It's 5 a.m. Like what the hell is this guy doing? I'm pulling out my ice axe in the airport, you know, strapping it onto my bike and crampons. Everyone's just looking at me like I'm crazy. And then I get on my bike. I found a recycling bin, dumped the box and get on my bike and just start biking from Seattle airport to the trailhead. Um, And so I've been itching to do something like that again. I've gotten into cycling recently, uh, mostly indoors, uh, especially these days, but definitely itching to do another kind of bike pack to climb sort of trip. Uh, I was joking with Chris Burkhardt about doing it cause he's a huge cyclist. Um, and, uh, I think it'd be a cool way to, I want, I want to do the same thing, but maybe gather a couple of friends. I did the bike portion alone, but I did the climb with, with a friend. I think it'd be cool to have someone joined along for the bike portion. So maybe James, you should start biking.
James Stacey Yeah, I'll have to. I'm actually, uh, I'm on a bike now.
Jason Heaton Is that a Peloton?
James Stacey No, no. It's like, uh, uh, one friend gave me from their basement and I, I put on the global cycling network and go do, uh, you know, Paso Purity or something like that.
Josh Perez It's great. But yeah, I think, uh, toward the summer or fall, um, I'd love to do a bike to climb sort of adventure trip. Um, sure. Otherwise have photo trips in California and Washington and we'll see where else.
James Stacey That's great, man. Yeah. The other question that I have, it's a similar, it's a spin on a question that I asked Cole is when this is all done and you can go back to your kind of normal social scenarios around Denver, where are you going for an evening drink and what's the drink?
Josh Perez Yeah. If you're ever in Denver, you should visit Pon Pon, P-O-N, P-O-N. It's an amazing bar. Okay. And then the other one is Forest Room 5. That's kind of my go to use. Forest Room 5 is it's a real weird. They're usually playing like Stephen King films in the background in black and white. And they've got stuffed animals everywhere. It's a real creepy bar. But in the best way, I mean that in the best way possible, you should still go. Yeah. It's got a good theme. Yeah, it's got a good theme. It's kind of a creepy national park theme. So, yeah, that's.
James Stacey And what's what's the drink of choice? Drink of choice. Cole recommended a local New Jersey or a local
Josh Perez New York area cactus sour beer of some okay Yeah, our mutual friend is kind of my go-to for beer in the area. It's a brewery in Rhino the neighborhood that I live in And then as far as whiskey goes stranded hands in 10 cup whiskey are both based here in Colorado Both are great, too. Yeah, so I love I love both of those I have yeah got two bottles behind me. So Stranded hands for quarantine. Yep. Stranded hands in 10 cups I think, and Stranahan's, I think Tint Cup was founded by guys from Stranahan's, so.
James Stacey Okay, I didn't know that.
Josh Perez Yeah, but Great Divide is another amazing brewery based here in this neighborhood. Their Claymore Scotch Ale is amazing. All right, that sounds fun. And then obviously New Belgium is a Colorado staple.
James Stacey Absolutely, for sure. And then the last thing I'd ask for you before we leave is we always close out the show with final notes, kind of a recommendation of either a book, a movie, an activity, an inexpensive product? Is there something you've come across recently that got you excited that you might want to recommend to the average TGN listener?
Josh Perez Yeah. I think the average TGN probably likes design to some extent. TGN reader or listener. For sure. So if it was free, the filmmaker made it free for a while because of this whole stay at home. Dieter Rams. The film is called Rams. Oh, yeah. Dieter Rams is, you know, he's an amazing, famous designer, mostly known for his stuff at Braun, but a bunch of other stuff. But there's an amazing documentary. It's mostly on German. So if you don't know German, you're going to be reading a lot of subtitles. But it's on Vimeo. I think it's five bucks now. I think about an hour and a half. But if you if you've ever been interested in Dieter Rams, that's a great documentary to kind of watch and hear about his life from his perspective and get a peek into his home and his, his way of life. Uh, amazing, fascinating guy.
James Stacey Yeah. And I mean, for, for anyone who's, who doesn't know that name, uh, largely all of the Apple products you can think of, the ones that you, you'll never be able to forget that defined, you know, industrial, uh, uh, design over the last 15 years or so were inspired by Ram designs. It could be a speaker that was designed that was, you know, inspired by a razor. It could be. uh, a toaster that inspired the way, uh, you know, a computer looked, but a lot of Apple's design cues, uh, come from that sort of Ram iconography for sure.
Josh Perez Yeah. And I, you know, I can't, we can't really talk about what Cole and I were up to in Europe, but coming back from that trip and that work really inspired me to dig into some classic old design. Um, and so that, that trip honestly inspired me to dig deeper. So I I've had on my bookshelf, uh, the book, the design of everyday things. Um, it's by, uh, Don Norman. Um, we can link to that one as well, but that's, uh, it's a little bit more on the industrial design side than maybe apparel or outdoor adventure gear. But, uh, if you're another, one of those things, if you're interested in design, it's a, it's a classic for sure. And then I've personally also been digging through, uh, Jean and Steven's book, the watch. I figured this would be a good time to pick up a big book on watches and really it's great. Yeah, it's awesome. Um, it's been cool just digging into that book and, and really I guess sharp, sharpening my knowledge on watches. Great picks. Last one. Oh, you got one more. Let's do it. I got, I got one more. I just finished last night. Uh, the man in the high castle on Amazon prime and it, I don't know, they could have done with three seasons or maybe even two instead of four, but it's still, if you're, if you got nothing else to do and you want something that you could just kind of watch casually, it's a, it's a good one.
James Stacey And that's the revisionist history series where the Third Reich won.
Josh Perez Exactly.
James Stacey Yeah. Yeah. All right. Yeah. It's an alternative history. Yeah. Yeah. Fantastic. Well, that's great stuff. Three varied and interesting picks. And Josh, I can't thank you enough for being on the show. Thank you very much. Thank you, James. It was a treat to have you. And we're certainly going to be keeping in touch over Pedro and Taylor and that sort of stuff. So keep us abreast of the scenario there. And I can't wait until the world goes back to his part where I don't know what I'll see on your Instagram, you know, far-fung places and such. So yeah, I hope you and the family are great. Take care.
Josh Perez Thanks. Take care, James.
Jason Heaton All right. Well, uh, thanks Josh, for taking the time to chat with James for our isolation socialization. Yeah, that was, that was really cool.
James Stacey Yeah. No, always a treat to, to chat with Josh and I hope people dig it and definitely hit the show notes to connect with some of that stuff. He had some fantastic, uh, uh, final notes there at the end, I think three or four really solid picks, some of them even just for folks in the Denver area or who can get to the Denver area in the future. What do you say we bounce right into homework then?
Jason Heaton Yeah, that's a good idea. This week I picked one that kind of came as an inspiration from our friend, Matt Heronic, who can be found at WMBrownProject, at William Brown Project on Instagram. Matt, you know, is an old friend of ours. We've seen him at various places around the world. We skied with him back in January. And he's just kind of an all around bon vivant who is currently in isolation, uh, self-imposed up in upstate New York at his wonderful farm up there. And, uh, Matt's been doing something on Instagram lately where he and his wife, you know, I guess it's tempting during this time where you're kind of just at home either by yourself or with loved ones or family to just kind of slump around in sweatpants and t-shirts all day, even, even for dinner. Um, and he and his wife have been actually taking, making the effort of, actually dressing for dinner, uh, putting on nice clothes. And in some cases, uh, I think I've seen him pose in a tuxedo, um, which might be a little far, but, uh, you know, I would suggest, uh, at least once a week or a couple of days a week, you know, get, get properly dressed up for dinner. Like, you know, put some effort into it, comb your hair, uh, shave, um, you know, maybe tame that pandemic hair that, uh, that seems to be a real trend these days and, and put on a nice shirt and, uh, you know, look decent. I think, um, even beyond dinner, I think I've been making an effort, uh, to, you know, get up in the morning and actually get dressed and put on a button down shirt or a polo shirt or something, resisting the urge to just kind of move to, to my desk in my pajamas. Um, and I think it makes something of a difference. So I guess that would be my quick and easy homework for all of you is to, you know, make an effort to dress up for dinner once or twice a week.
James Stacey That seems like a perfectly fair tip. I'll do my best to try that at least once. I've been... My main move lately has been deciding to put on real pants versus something like sweatpants or shorts or something like that. So yeah, I'll make the move at some point in the future from real pants to a full real outfit. Yeah. But I do like the idea of doing it kind of dressing up for dinner, maybe making something extra special. And if that's your plan, my pick for homework is actually something I put in one of the daily uplifts recently, but it's something that I think a lot of people could use. It's certainly something I can use, and I've been working my way through the sessions and then trying to apply them later. But it's a 12-minute course on Skillshare in knife skills. So it's learning how to cut properly, not only learning how to cut so that you don't take off the end of your finger, But more you know how to deal with things like slice and julienne dice and mince caring for the knife these sorts of things and it's presented by Alana Karp who's the head chef at plated and Oddly enough or not oddly enough. I don't really know why this surprises me anymore, but I was surprised by it. I mentioned this on the Daily Uplift for Hodinkee and Josh Alana's husband wrote in saying that you know, they're Hodinkee fans and they appreciated the, uh, appreciated the shout out. And so Joshua, you know, huge fan of Alana and, and, and certainly, uh, yourself. And we thank you very much for this session. It's, it's 12 minutes to learn, uh, what I think is probably a basic skill that I've ignored for 20 plus years. Uh, just proper, uh, I know how to care for a knife and not, not damage the edge and that sort of thing, but I really kind of cut everything exactly the same way, or, which is to say, every time I go to cut an onion, you'd assume I had never cut an onion before. There's no plan. The blade has to hit every piece of the onion as quickly as possible. So this is a good course and I think it's something you can learn and then literally apply for lunch, for dinner, for the next dinner. I think it's something that you... We're at a time now where people are actually cooking.
James Stacey Yeah.
James Stacey Um, myself included, I don't, not typically someone who cooks many things, but, uh, it's something where I'm picking up a knife and preparing more food than I have in the past. And just realizing how terrible my form and technique and, and, uh, plan is when I approach a vegetable of any type. So this, this is a good one. I think it's worth doing. It's 12 minutes. And like I said, you could literally watch it, you know, while something's cooking in the oven and then apply it while you're prepping for whatever the side's going to be. So. Give that a check, and certainly a big thanks to Ilana for making that possible and Josh for reaching out. Nice.
Jason Heaton Boy, very knife-heavy episode.
James Stacey Oh, super, yeah. Keep them sharp for sure.
Jason Heaton Yeah, so I've got a quick first final note here that came to me via a listener named Hussein who had tuned into our earlier episode when we talked about that really cool animated ocean exploration a feature on neil.fun that kind of just scrolled and scrolled and scrolled and went down to the bottom of the ocean and all the things along the way. And he had found a TED talk by oceanographer David Gallo that was called Looking Deep Into the Oceans. And David Gallo is an oceanographer who has done a lot of ocean exploration in submarines around the world and is very knowledgeable about the subject. And this is a typical 15-20 minute TED talk that he did. Um, just going into more detail about just the vastness of the ocean, the depths, what lives there, um, current state of exploration and just the sheer size of the ocean. I think, you know, those of us, uh, all of us who are land-based, you know, we don't really have a sense of just how big and vast and deep and voluminous the ocean is on our planet. And I think, uh, he does a really good job of kind of highlighting that in, uh, in this Ted talk. So thanks Hussein for sending that in and, uh, check it out.
James Stacey Very cool. Yeah. That's definitely one that, uh, when I saw you put it in the show notes, I added it to my pocket. Uh, and at some point, probably at two in the morning, I will, uh, pull it up on my phone and give it a view. That stuff's great. I mean, it's, it's also always worth mentioning that when, when, you know, you have 20 minutes, uh, but you're not really sure how you want to spend it. Ted.com is still, yeah. as good a resource as it's ever been. Yeah, that's so true. There's a way to kill 20 minutes there that will leave you smiling and thinking for the rest of the day about something that you hadn't ever maybe even thought about. My suggestion this week is a movie which I'm sure we've talked about on a previous episode. And I think for some time it was free on Netflix. It might be free on your Netflix. It's not still available in Canada's Netflix. But it's called Valley Uprising. And it's this incredible documentary about the history of big wall climbing in Yosemite National Park. So like all the way back to the first guys who rocked up there and decided to start putting up these lines that are famous, hallowed lines. And certainly if you've watched Free Solo, this should be required, you know, required viewing in the fallout of Free Solo. It's like a prequel. Yeah, exactly. It gives you the whole background on the type of climbing and these amazing person, Royal Robins, like these amazing personalities, these fun-loving vagabond types that became known as kind of dirtbag climbers, living in the woods, running from the cops, doing drugs. It's a really great document. I love a sports documentary. I don't care for sports that much, but I adore sports documentaries. Yeah. And I think that this is an absolutely crucial one because this is a postmodern sport for the most part. And it's really interesting to see where it went right after the war, where the idea of sport climbing and making that a lifestyle versus a skill set that lumped in with greater adventuring concerns or mountaineering proper or something like that, where it just became about this sort of almost... It's like how motorcycles took on a different context post World War II in North America, so did climbing in this interesting way where it became a counterculture. And if you wanna see the home of that counterculture, and some similarities to biker gangs, early biker gangs, I think. And then, of course, it progresses into wingsuit flying and everything else. It gives you the full run. Valley Uprising is without question worth your $5. Rented on YouTube, you can rent it on Apple or Google Play or whatever. But yeah, for $5 or $6, maybe even less, what a killer, killer thing to watch on the weekend.
Jason Heaton Yeah, it sure is. And it's a good companion to the one you recommended or we recommended last week or the week before the mountain of storms, which was also a film in which Yvon Chouinard is heavily featured and had a big part in. And yeah, I loved Valley Uprising. I like that it goes through the different generations, the very distinct generations of climbers that kind of moved through Yosemite Valley. And, um, and then it's also amazing to kind of see how the, speed of getting up some of these well-known routes, just the times have just been halved and, um, you know, even more, you know, the times have just been cut down so drastically between the, the, the, the actual efforts from these, these people over the years and, uh, just, uh, really good stuff, some great old footage and good music and the animations they do are really fun too.
James Stacey Yeah, I think, yeah, literally a perfect documentary about a sport that I think almost anyone could find interesting because it's very like a lot of human stories, a lot of like pseudo drama or interesting elements about the culture. Valley Uprising, for sure. If you've done The Dawn Wall and Free Solo, this is your kind of history lesson that would have gotten us to that point. So, super. But hey, there you go. We got another show in the bank. I hope everybody enjoyed episode 108. And as always, hey, thanks so much for listening. You can hit the show notes via Hodinkee.com or the feed for more details. You can follow us on Instagram at Jason Heaton and at J.E. Stacey, and you can follow the show at The Graynado. If you have any questions for us, please write thegraynado at gmail.com and please keep sending in those voice memos. I believe we will do a Q&A in the next two episodes. So either 109 or 110 will be a Q&A. So record the Record your minute or less question into your voice memo on your phone, and then just email it to thegraynadoatgmail.com. Please subscribe, and we would love you to review the podcast wherever you find such material. And the music throughout is Siesta by Jazzar via the free music archive.
Jason Heaton And we leave you with this quote from Hugh McLeod who said, the price of being a sheep is boredom. The price of being a wolf is loneliness. Choose one or the other with great care.